Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - St. Louis Cardinals relying on Jordan Walker’s SWING Overhaul to ELEVATE Team’s 2026 Potential

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Two of the St. Louis Cardinals’ brightest young players unveil game-changing offseason routines—could their secret weapons ignite a return to contention in 2026? With the rotation shaken by the Sonny Gray trade, a youth movement is officially underway. How will Walker’s revamped hitting approach and Mautz's pitching breakthrough at Tread Athletics reshape the Cardinals' future?0:00 — Cardinals Young Stars Offseason Changes4:26 — Brycen Mautz & Jordan Walker Development13:12 — Rotation Trade, Prospects, Team OutlookFollow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms…🎧 https://lockedonpodcasts.com/podcasts/locked-on-st-louis-cardinals/Locked On MLB League-Wide: Every Team, Prospects & More🎧 https://lockedonpodcasts.com/leagues/mlb/Follow on Twitter/X: @JDSPORTSRADIOFollow the show on Twitter/X: @LO_CardinalsSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONMLB for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.FanDuelToday's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA and NFL seasons are here, visit the FanDuel App today and start planning your futures bets now.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)#ForTheLou #stlcards #mlb #lockedoncardinals #stlouiscardinals Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Two of the Cardinals' brightest young stars are overhauling their games with secret weapons this offseason. Could this be the spark St. Louis needs for 2026? We break down the details right now on Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. Hey, they're Cardinals fans. I'm J.D. Hafford and a former national radio sports anchor, born and raised in St. Louis, a lifetime Cardinals fan. Welcome into Locktown Cardinals, part of the Locktown Podcast Network. Now the number one sports podcast network. Thank you to our everydayers for continuing to be here for this journey. And for those of you who are brand new to the program, welcome in.

We hope you enjoy the content. This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving you all the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account. Use code Lockton MLB for $20 off your first purchase. Today, I will not be alone. I will not be alone. In fact, I've got our man, Thomas Gauvain, from RedbirdRance.com, joining us from his humble abode in Kansas City, where he works tirelessly.

And today he carved out some time to join us here today. Hey, how was your holiday, Thomas? How much bird did you eat? It was great. I had a nice mix of ham and turkey. Went to my in-laws house down in southwest Missouri. We had some good food. Something about that rural cooking.

It might be the butter that they use, I think, but it just, it tastes really good every time. Yeah, dude, fantastic stuff. Yeah, I had a couple of heaping plates myself. You got to get back to the diet, though. Got to get back to the diet and back to the grind, if you will, as we start talking about the offseason for the St. Louis Cardinals. On today's show, we're going to talk all things Cardinals,

possible Ali extension has been brought up. We've got to talk about the starting rotation following the sunny gray trade. but we're going to start with a couple of guys that are doing some things a little bit differently this off season to prepare for 2026, specifically Jordan Walker and Cardinals minor league pitcher of the year, Bryson Mottz, because these are guys specifically Walker that we expect to be a huge part of what the Cardinals are going to be doing in 2026. And depending on how Walker does this year, whether or not he's with this organization moving forward after the year. year. Bryson Mautz obviously has a very bright future. People are excited about him after his big

year at Springfield this year. He's going to be making that step up likely to Memphis and beyond. We might see him in St. Louis at some point in 2026. It's debatable on when that should happen. But let's get some background as to, you know, because back in the back in the old days, Damash, you'd show up for spring training and that's when you got back in shape. And that's when you'd be ready for opening day. They would show up and they'd be all a little fat and overweight. And then they would have to shed all that. Get back in game shape and that's what they would do.

That's not the deal anymore. Everybody's work entirely throughout the offseason. They take a week or two off to get their mind and their body some rest. And then they get right back to it. And for these younger guys, they're finding different ways to go about working on their craft, whether it is the pitching side, whether it is their swing. And Jordan Walker and Bryson Mons are two of those guys that have been talked about recently that are doing some things a little differently this offseason.

What can you tell us about each one of their situations? I know a little bit more about Bryson Mautz's situation. He went to a place called Tread Athletics. It's just offseason performance facility. They've got pitching, hitting help. They work with pros, college, minor league guys, whatever it is. I actually spoke with Paul Hall, who has been working with Bryson. He said he's been working with him for about a year and a half now.

And the idea there was just to get Bryson more ready for the season. He was trying to get his pitches a little bit sharper, get a little bit more velocity on some of his pitches as well. And it seemed to do a lot for him last year. He went from a 5-1-8 ERA in 2024 to a sub-3 ERA last year. He's continuing that work at Tread this winter as well, and he's not taking any steps back. Which is great news because the one thing that we've learned about, you know, Heim Bloom's vision for this team and this organization. organization moving forward as they got to get better at developing starting pitching just pitching at

general don't even have to be starters really but just developing getting their hands on as many possible arms as they can and uh to have somebody on the inside already you know we've got some big names you know Liam Doyle obviously he's a big name I don't know how many people were talking about Bryce and Mott's before what he did this past season at Springfield I don't know if he was on anybody's radar really and here we are now He's your reigning minor league pitcher of the year, along with J.J. Weatherhold, there's your minor league player of the year. And, you know, now we're talking about him. Hey, is this somebody that, I don't know, we might need to use him in 2026 as a starting pitcher if they don't add any depth?

Yeah, it's possible. I don't know. It's quite a jump. He turned 24 in July, so he's a little bit older as far as prospects go. It's definitely possible. I think I'd like to see what he does in the first five months in Memphis, four or five months in Memphis. If it can continue this strikeout trend, if you can continue that run prevention, I think it could see his name being called by the end of the year,

especially if we signed some like one year, Dustin May pitchers, then we trade them off at the deadline because they're doing well. I think he might be one of the first guys up at that point, too. Yeah, yeah. So we're looking forward to it. But again, no pressure really this year. It's not like, okay, dude, we kind of need you now. No, that's not really the situation at all.

He will definitely start at Memphis. there's no reason why to keep him down to double A for another year. So he'll be up in Memphis, which Memphis might have a pretty nasty starting rotation if everybody's healthy, just thinking about some of the prospects and where they are lining up as far as their time frame of just kind of graduating to different levels.

That could be a nasty team down in Memphis, and hopefully it all works out for them. On the other side, Jordan Walker. We know the story with Jordan. top prospect first round pick all the talent in the world came up great start to his career got set back down to work on some things he wanted more lift you know in his swing and you know that rookie year the numbers look like all right this guy is on the path to becoming something really really special for this team and things have cratered ever since it is just never come

together for him and uh derrick gould at shtl today.com uh kind of gave us a behind the scenes look at some of the things Jordan Walker has been working on in this offseason to prepare for what Heinblum is called. This is a big year for him because this will be, is this his fourth year that he's actually going to be in the major leagues? Like, that's right, isn't it? Yeah, this would be his fourth 23. He came up his rookie.

Like, it seems like it's only like a second, but no, he's been up. There's just been, you know, the injuries last year, demotion. and then he had that rookie year. So this is going to be his fourth year trying to do something in the big leagues. Like the leash is getting shorter and shorter on Jordan. And as much as we all like him and we want him to succeed. Eventually, you got to cut ties with people and move on in life

if it's not working out. And Jordan Walker is doing something as well this offseason that apparently is working pretty well for him. A video surfaced of him back in early October. He was working on drive line similar to tread. It's a facility. They work with thousands of athletes throughout the year. And he was in the batting cage is getting some good hits in.

This was brought up by his agency, according to Derek Gould. CAA wanted him to get some work in. So they could meal prep nutrition plans. Cage work for him with driveline as well. And that Cressy sports performance. He's back in Atlanta now, I believe, and he's continuing those prep planes. But his offseason started really early, pretty much two weeks after the Cardinals ended. he was in with drive line getting some work in the cages trying to do the idea is getting his hip

to stay where it needs to be longer he was dropping his hip a little bit early on his swing and that caused him to sacrifice some of the launch angle that he used so often yeah and uh you know that one of the things that he says in the article was about you know i'm trying to figure out the pitchers which is hard enough as it is but then i'm kind of fighting my own body to get to those pitches and we've seen him flail away at pitches low it away, low and away sweeper. Everybody threw it there. And then they would bust him in and he couldn't get his hands

and his hips around in time because he's looking away the whole time. And it just was a mess. And it was just over and over and or it was like he was in a horrible time loop of something. And it just kept happening to him. And it's been a rough go. And, you know, the faith in Jordan Walker is obviously waned with a lot of the fan base. Like they're like, dude, he's just not it. I'm not there to say that yet.

He's still a very young man. What are you? 23. Is that where we're at? It might be 22. 23, I think. Yeah, he's just like, he's so young still. And how much of the blame goes on how the Cardinals handled him in the beginning of his career

and how, you know, it was up and down. And they didn't know what they wanted them to do here. And, you know, he's learning the outfield. But, hey, you know, figure it out at the major league level. Oh, and don't worry about. looking like an idiot out there because you've never done this before. Like there was so much going in on this kid's mind that, you know, I don't blame him for having his wires all crossed up a little bit.

But, you know, now's the time because if there's one thing the Cardinals could really, really use in that outfield is a right-handed bat with some pop. And at this moment, you know, you got them talking about trading guys like Lars Neupar, which I don't know who would want him coming off double heel surgery. Like what? Who wants that? And then, of course, Donovan, which you can, you know, put him into the outfield stuff if you want to. We know he's normally an infielder, but you could also put him in the outfield.

But again, left handed, left handed. Victor Scott, left handed. All right, we need somebody from the other side of the plate. And Jordan Walker is that guy right now. He's the only guy right now. You know, there isn't any right handers that are, you know, on the verge of coming up or anything that can help out. So if they sign somebody to be on the bench from the right-handed side, they can play the outfield, maybe that's something that they could look into.

But, you know, they're kind of baking on Jordan Walker being that guy. And if he has another bad year, man, I don't see how the team can stick with them. No, I don't either. I mean, you've got Josh Baez, but he's just hit AA. He's not ready for the majors. He's giving me, I mean, he's just now showing what he can do, let him prove it at Memphis again and then talk. we need Jordan Walker to be better than he has been. Harder the order.

He doesn't even need to hit fourth. Like put him fifth, sixth near the bottom, let him ramp up a little bit. But just to get that power stroke that he was known for back. He's got the exit velocity. I mean, he's top 10 and top exit velocities of the year, but he just cannot get the ball in the air. He cannot hit spots.

He cannot avoid those breaking balls down in a way. Yeah. And I always want him. And it's easier said than done is like, you're a huge. man, Jordan. Who are some other huge men in baseball that you can kind of pattern yourself after? There's a guy in New York by the name of Aaron Judge, who is the same size as far as like the height and everything. What has he done? You know, it's pretty good guy to kind of look at to see how

does he avoid chasing those kind of pitches? How does he lay off those kind of pitches? How does he reach the inside part of the plate? You know, if he's got a very open stance, Jordan had that open stance for a while, but he, again, he wasn't able to get his body properly where it needed to be to reach any of those outside pitches and drive them the other way, the way that Aaron Judge does. And again, not everybody's going to be Aaron Judge. He's, you know, what a talent, right? But if you're going to follow somebody's footsteps and look at them that can compare size-wise, I feel like, you know, somebody like him is somebody you should look at, maybe even Giancarlo Stanton, who has altered his stance a lot over the years, you know, now he's got that super-closed

stance that he uses, but it wasn't always that way when he was out in Miami. So I don't know, just some thoughts, but, you know, I'm not, I'm sure I'm not, you know, breaking the seal on any thing that they haven't talked about before. But it just, there are guys his size that have been able to do it in the past and hopefully Jordan can figure it out this year. All right, we're going to talk about more pitching. Pitching, very important in the sport. Cardinals dealt away their number one last week.

We'll get Thomas's thoughts on that deal and dissect this very young rotation coming up next on Locked on Cardinals. NFL Sundays move fast, one big play, and suddenly everything just feels different. That's what makes live betting with Fandall so exciting. Now, you're not just watching the game anymore. You're actually reacting to it in real time. With Fandall, you can place bets as the action unfolds, every drive, every momentum swing, every highlight moment. I was enjoying quite a few of those moments on Thanksgiving when my Green Bay Packers were taking down the Detroit Lions. Sweep. That was fun to watch. Live betting is. is best when the game starts to shift. It really is. A receiver gets hot, you know,

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Thank you for making it locked on the number one sports podcast network. If you enjoy daily Cardinals, you can follow the podcast on X at L1 underscore Cardinals. We're also on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram, a locked on Cardinals. Thomas Govane from Redward Rants.com joining us here today. Sunny Gray got traded last week. I don't know if you got that memo, Thomas, that came across. but Greg got moved. First of what we assume will be multiple deals this offseason.

In return, they were able to land right-handed Richard Fitz and left-handed prospect, Brandon Clark. They also sent $20 million to help with Sunny salary to Boston as part of the deal. I haven't had a chance to really talk to you about this deal yet. What were your thoughts when it all went down and you found out all the different details about it with the money and who came back? Did you like, dislike the trade? What were your thoughts? I don't love seeing us trade away our best pitcher.

It's a sign that we're not looking to fully contend this year. So from a fan perspective, I don't love that. But from a return perspective and a future outlook, I think it's pretty impressive. I like that the ownership was willing to send $20 million over with him to get better prospects. I think Richard Fitz would be a very nice back-end starter for this year in the next few years after that. I like the Brandon Clark idea. I've seen a lot of talk about reliever potential. but if we can add a third pitch to his mix,

I think the new pitching development group that we have has already done wonders if they can continue that work with Clark. I have high expectations for him. I don't love the fact that we're not fully going in for the next few years. I love a team that can win 90 plus games and get a division title, but I get why they're doing it, and I'm happy with the return. Yeah, I talked about in yesterday's episode, you know, when you put what they just received for Sunny,

And then you put together what they got in return at the trade deadline for Helsley and Mayton and Stephen Matt's. Not a bad little haul for, you know, three guys that were on expiring contracts. And, you know, a 36-year-old veteran pitcher who, yeah, he's been good, but it wasn't quite to the level maybe that a lot of the fan base wanted. But also was going to make a crap load of money coming up here where you were going to pay. I'm 35 million, probably 40 million because you were going to buy out that final year. You were probably not going to pay that and sign them again.

So that was $40 million. So you sliced that in half. You save $20 million. And now you can put that towards something else, another need, perhaps signing one or two more pitchers on one-year deals. You mentioned a guy like a Dustin May, but there's a ton of other ones out there. So I feel like the last few deals, sure, there's a lot of risk involved. these are all prospects and we don't know if any of them are going to work out. That's just part of the, part of the gamble that you take when you trade guys away for prospects.

But on the surface, you know, to be able to get what you received, two of the guys you got back are top 10 prospects in your system now, according to Mblebee Pipeline. Now you got five of them in your top 30. I feel like that's a pretty good job, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think Heimblum did a good job on this. He had no previous connection with either of these people. I know he was with the Red Sox, but Fitz came over after he left and Clark was drafted after he left. But clearly our scouting department did some hard work on them.

I think the talks with Arnaudu last winter opened up a little bit of these conversations, or at least some familiarity we had. And that's just good work on Haim Bloom. You get a top, you get a high-end velocity, left-handed pitcher, and then you get a reliable back-end starter. You can't really ask for much more from a guy who's being owed four. $40 million next year on an expiring contract in gray and who's about to be 36. Yeah, and these aren't like kid kids.

These aren't like 18 year old, 19 year old guys. Yeah. Fitz who's going to be part of the rotation right away, we assume. And Clark's 22. So it's not like, you know, he's like five years away from being something that you can talk about at the major league level. Like if they can get him ironed out, you know, two years would be a nice timeline to see him impact the major league roster. I wonder if Boston people are tired of the Cardinals doing deals

with them. Like, why don't we keep putting them all to Heim Bloom again? What are we doing? Let's talk about this rotation real quick, though. Very young, very young. We mentioned Richard Fitz, who just came over, you know, before last year, he was their 12th rated prospect. So it's not like this is some rando dude that they got, you know, this is a guy that's got legit talent. He's got a lot of different pitches that, you know, it's, you know, different shapes and looks. And those are the words that they like to use. So I'm excited to see what he can do. But you put fits with Matthew Libertor, Michael McGreevy, Kyle Leahy and Andre Palante as your top five starters at this moment. I'm putting Palante in there. I want to see him in the

bullpen. So do you. But I'm not giving up on him. I'm not cutting him, release it. That's not going and I still think there's plenty of arm talent there. They just got to fix him and figure them out a little bit. But it's a very, very young rotation. Leahy transitioning to starter for the first time in his major league career. What is your feelings towards like, let's just pretend, that's all they do? They just sit, they're like, okay, here's our five. How would you feel about that coming into the season?

I don't love it. I saw something on Twitter the other day where the Cardinals had the second lowest projections for starting pitcher war next year, and the only team behind us were the Colorado Rockies, who pitch in a launching pad. So from that perspective, I don't love it. I think that it's going to be a big year for Libertor. I really hope that he can step up. He's not a number one on any other rotation in the league, but I think he could be a very reliable left-handed starting pitcher with decent strikeout numbers, good amount of innings, all that stuff. McGreevy's floor is solid. I like what we saw last year out of them.

I think Kyle Leahy could be interesting next year. He's going to be a guy to keep an eye on. Richard Fitz, fits while at the bottom. I don't want Andre Palante, and I hope that that's the spot that is replaced via trade, either Brendan Donovan or Nolan Gorman. Maybe you can get some sort of control-ful starting pitcher

or free agency with Dustin May, Tyler Malley, someone to take that Andre Palante spot. Yeah, I feel like it would be shocking for them, to bring in some sort of veteran presence. Like I feel like that would just be weird to not have that. But at the same time, when we say veteran presence, when we're talking about,

I mean, Tyler Mallee's, you know, got a few years on him. But, you know, if you bring in it, Dustin May is like 27. It's not like he's a man like that. But that's the kind of guy, you know, and we keep bringing up his name because he's somebody who's got an exciting arsenal. And, you know, what's really held him back is injuries. That's really been the problem.

But when he's on, he can be super nasty. but it just feels like there's got to be some sort of veteran presence that needs to be brought in just to help these guys along. Like these guys are all just kids tackling this pitching rotation together in St. Louis. And that's obviously there's a lot of risk there because, you know, how many times did we see a guy like Libby or, you know, Palante or whatever, only go three or four innings, you know, and that's really going to put some strain on the bullpen and is, good as that bullpen has been and as much as we trust the Cardinals to do well with that moving forward. That's not ideal.

And also, I always would to bring this up, too, is that the Cardinals got very lucky with how healthy their rotation was last year. That was not normal that they were able to pull that off. So expect people to go down and to have fatigue and there to be some issues. So you have to have some depth there. You mentioned Bryce and Mawks as somebody that you thought, you know, would be. a possible call-up at some point maybe in 2026. Who would you think would be like the next guy in the pecking order with the team now that might slide up? So if Palante say they move him to the bullpen and they bring somebody from AAA,

who's that next guy you think makes sense? I would say it's Quinn Matthews. He has the year owner's belt at AAA. He's probably the guy. Tink hence, maybe depending on. if he's healthy, but I'm leaning more towards reliever with him. I think Eishon Henderson needs a little bit more time in the minors, but he could be a guy to keep an eye on.

But probably Quinn Matthews would be the sixth or seventh guy at Pover's. Okay. All right. But again, very young. And I think we both agree that they could use somebody with some years already in the major league and help these guys through the. I'm not saying Kyle Gibson old, like I'm not saying 37, 38 year old, people like that. but somebody with a little longevity in the major league game already would be nice.

There was talk about a possible Ali Marmal extension over the week. So we're going to jump into that. We're going to get Thomas thoughts on that. Is that the right move, smart to get ahead of it or dumb to make a decision already? We'll talk about it next on lockdown cards. The World Cup is coming back to North America for the first time since 1994 and with 48 teams for the first time ever. It's going to be massive, you guys, but let's be honest, getting tickets to something like that, usually the hardest part, right? That's why Game Time is here.

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Download the Game Time app, create an account, use code Locked on MLB for $20. Again, download the app, make an account, use code Locked on MLB for $20 off. Swipe, Tap, Ticket Go, Game Time. Thanks for making Locktown Cardle's your first listen every day for your second list and find the Lockton MLB podcast where there is no offseason. Solly keeps you up to date on the contract negotiations, the rumors and everything you need to be the most. informed MLB fan. You can find Lockdown MLB on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Thomas Gauvin from RedbirdRance.com joining us here. So, Ali Marmal, there was a story from Derek Gould at STLT

Today.com that mentioned that, hey, they've had preliminary talks about possible extension for Ali Marmal past this year. Contract finishes at the end of the season. Your thoughts on that, because we already went down this road once where Mo did it because he didn't want, you know, Ollie feeling like a lame duck going into a season where they didn't expect to be all that good. And they're not expected to be all that good this year either. Sure, there could be surprises. Some young guys could escalate and be much better than we thought. Jordan Walker and Nolan Gorman could finally pan out.

But you see the writing on the wall. Sunny Gray is getting traded. Nato's getting traded. Maybe Brendan Donovan. it. So the youth is really going to be in charge this year, and more times than not, that leads to more losses than when. Your thoughts on a possible Ali extension, is this the right move or dumb to start talking about this already? It feels premature, not because I don't think Ollie's a qualified manager, but just because we need to see what he can do with this young core. I don't think he's been

given a fair shake the last two years. I think that most fans would agree with that. He has been given a rotation that has been dominant since he came in. I know 2022, he had a really good team, and he saw a lot of success there outside the playoffs. I'm fine with this decision-making at this point, especially with the relievers. I think he can defend what he does with sound logic. I wouldn't extend him right now, though. I'd see how the year goes. And he's not going to be judged in my mind by wins and losses.

He can be judged in the growth of the individual players. If we see Jordan Walker, if we see Nolan-Macon make those strides, if Lars Newport comes back and can go back to its 2023 self, I think that that's noteworthy. I judge more in the player growth rather than the win and loss record for an extension. Yes, and I feel like that's kind of why, you know, Hym's been here a couple of years. We keep, you know, the feeling is like he just got here because we haven't seen him. We haven't talked to him very much.

And now we're finally getting our hands on him and he's the guy in charge. But he has been there behind the scenes for the last couple seasons. he's gotten to know these guys down through the minor leagues and up through the major leagues. And there's something about the idea that that's even being brought up that tells you that they kind of like what Ali does, you know, as far as his relationships with players. Because the one thing I point out all the time is that even when things were so bad in 2023 that you never heard that Ali lost the clubhouse or that he was the problem or there was arguments between. people. We had the one blow up that people still like to talk about with the Tyler O'Neill situation where we think everybody learned from that, you know? Yeah, I remember, Ollie was the youngest manager in baseball, right? Like, he's going to make some mistakes. Every manager does,

and he's going to learn from that. But a lot of the fan base, you know, when I talked about this, was, you know, there's people are just like, no, no, no, please don't do this. I'm not spending money until Ali is gone. But I'm starting to see a shift a little bit. And I know that it's a small sample size in the comments section and people who write to me, I get it. But I'm seeing a shift where it was pure anger like a year ago where they were like, this guy sucks. We hate him, get him out of town. He's a loser. To now people are starting to jump over a little bit and go, you know, I kind of get it. I kind of understand why you wouldn't make that move right now. So, So what do you think it is about Ali that Haim is attracted to as far as keeping him around?

Is there something about him that you think is different? It could be his player development background. When he was first to announce his manager, that was kind of his calling card, his relationship with players and his ability to work with young guys. Heim might be interested in that. I think that Heim enjoys the working relationship to have. I have zero knowledge. So let's not pretend like I've got inside stuff here.

But I think that they had the- We're just thinking out loud together. I wouldn't be surprised that the two have a good working relationship with each other. They both have similar temperaments, it seems, from the outside. I think that that works well together. As far as I can tell, that seems to be the most appealing part between Haim and Ollie, though. Yeah, and you hit the nail on the head there. Player development.

What are we trying to do here, Cardinal fans? What is the goal right now? What is the biggest focus about this team? player development. And having a younger manager and not some, you know, guy who's in his 60s or 70s, they wants to do things his way and doesn't really adjust to how the game is, is probably not the answer.

Now people are going to yell, Yadi, Albert, bring them in, whatever. And I brought this up yesterday. I'm like, why has nobody else hired them then? If they're so great, if they're so amazing and ready to go and should be a manager of a major league baseball team, how come nobody else has jumped on the bandwagon and gotten one of them into their clubhouse already? So something to think about. But I think people are starting to understand that maybe there's more to this and this, this long-term vision that Haim has.

He needs somebody that is cool with that ride. And if people who would want to interview for the job in our life, but we got to go do this, this, this to win now. And that's not the vision at the moment. So he needs somebody that's going to sit shotgun with him and be able to be patient. I hate that word, obviously. It's a moe trigger. It's somebody that has to be able to do that and be able to relate to these younger guys and understand what it's going to take to get everybody on the same page

into the same level at the same time to really get the Cardinals back to where we want them to be. So why I understand it. I'm with you. I agree. I'm like, let's give them, let them finish out his conscience. this year because who's banging down the door looking for Ali Marmel and steal him away from the Cardinals. Probably not a lot of people. So why not? Why not let him finish it out? And, you know, if he kicks butt in the role this year. And again, not by wins and losses, but just are we,

is it all starting to come together? Are we moving into the, the proper direction together? If it all is working, then, yeah, it would be like, all right, here's three more years. You're our guy to lead us with all of these guys. They all seem to love you. trust you. Everybody's getting along. Let's put it in pin and paper and get it together. But if things go sideways, you're not stuck, right? You know, you don't have to, you're not handcuffed by like these no trade clauses that had been such a pain in the ass the last two years. Like no trade calls for a manager. That'd be funny. Yeah. It's like three, three years, 15 million and no trade clause.

Yeah. You know, you're not, you're not, you're not stuck. You know, I feel like you're just, you just have to ride it out with them. You know, you make a real decision together at the end of the season. So I agree. I think it's a little premature. I would do it our way first. And I feel like Ollie would be on board for that. I'd be like, yeah, I would love to do it that way.

As long as you don't have somebody that's already, you know, in the chamber ready to go to take his job, which felt like that was going to be the situation with the Adi on board. But because that doesn't appear to be what the case is going to be this year. That's not really a thing. Nobody's threatening him for his job. We just want you to do a great job. So we'll see how it all pans out. All right, we're going to wrap things up.

Thomas, thank you so much for joining us here today. Anything new that you're coming up with at Redbirdrance.com that you want the folks to know about. I'm finishing that story on Bryce and Mott. I've spoken with the guy from Tread who worked with him one-on-one. I've got that story going up to the next few days. And then I wrote one about the greatest winter meetings moves the Cardinals have made in their history. That should go up next week once the meetings start. Yeah.

Ooh, I like that. I love going back and checking out the old stuff and just ripping everybody. Oh, I do too. It's fun. Hopefully there's some good ones. I did the good moves. I only did the good moves, the positive ones. I stayed away from some bad ones.

Were there a lot of bad ones during the winter meetings, too? I don't know. I mean, if you think JD Drew, like, that's in there. If you think the JD drew trade, I don't know why you would, you get out of rain, right? But like if you really like JD Drew, that might be something that sets you off a little bit. But aside from that, most of the moves have been pretty good. They haven't made too many moves. So finding them first of all was tough.

But then also, they played it safe. I'd tell you one, I like his first name. He's got a good first name. I actually called J.D. Drew at a movie theater once. And I knew something was up when he was there by himself, which was weird to me at the time. Like, we were in a group of people. We were all at the movie theater together off of Olive Road in St. Louis. And we bumped in and there he was.

And I was like, oh my gosh. I'm like, he's all by himself. That's weird. That's weird to me. It's like on Friday night too. It wasn't like Tuesday night or something. I was like, oh, man, we're screwed. Nobody likes this dude.

He's all by himself. And you see what happened. But he got you at him with him. Sure. It's so hard to argue about that. All right. Thanks for making locks on Carlos for first listen every day. If you haven't already, give us a follow on X at L1

score Cardinals and at JD Sports Radio, TikTok and Instagram and Lockdown Cardinals. Make sure you're following Thomas at Thomas Govain on X as well and read on his work at RedbirdRance.com. Like, subscribe on YouTube. Help our channel and love for the Cardinals grill. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on Lockdown Cardinals.