Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - St. Louis Cardinals Trade Sonny Gray to the Boston Red Sox in BLOCKBUSTER Deal – What Happens Now?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The first big move of the Heimblum era has happened, and it's a big one, as the Cardinals trade top starter, Sunny Gray, to the Boston Red Sox. Who else is involved in how does it affect the roster on today's episode of Locked on Cardinals? You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked-on podcast network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm J.D. Hafford, a former national radio sports anchor, You're born and raised in St. Louis and a lifetime Cardinals fan.

Starting point is 00:00:35 And welcome to Locked on Cardinals, part of the Lockedown Podcast Network. Now the number one sports podcast network. Thank you to our everydayers for continuing to be here with us. And for those of you who are new, welcome in. Hope you enjoy the content. This is a show serving Cardal Nation and giving you all the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by Fandle right now new customers can bet just $5. And if your bet wins, you'll get $300 in bonus bets to use across the app.

Starting point is 00:01:01 So download the app today. On today's show, we are discussing the latest roster moves by the team, which included the addition of a new face to the organization, but also the return of two guys who were just non-tendered over the weekend, but have now come back. We're also going to take a look back at the 2020, trade deadline and reexamine the moves that went down since one of those guys they brought back was involved in those deadline moves.

Starting point is 00:01:25 But let's start with the breaking news, the thing that everybody wants to talk about, Sunny Gray is no longer a St. Louis Cardinal and has been traded to the Boston Red Sox. In the first of many anticipated moves, the team has shipped them to Boston, or I should say shipped them up to Boston, along with $20 million in exchange for right-handed pitcher, Richard Fitz, left-handed pitcher Brandon Clark, plus a player to be named later or cash considerations. Sunny Gray, 36 years old. We know this. He's a veteran. was set to make $35 million this season

Starting point is 00:02:02 in the third year that deal that he signed with the Cardinals during the 2023 off season. And although he may not have lived up to the expectations that some had when he came over from Minnesota, where he finished second in the Cy Young voting that season, Sonny was still a heck of a pitcher for the Cardinals. You know, it was a heavily backloaded contract that went from 15 to 25 to 35 million

Starting point is 00:02:27 in the three years. of the deal. Five million dollar buyout, $30 million club option for the 2027 season, which apparently was a mutual option. I think I read that too. The contract stipulated that even if the option was picked up, Gray could opt out and head back into free agency. So basically it was a mutual. He and Boston have already restructured what's left of his deal. And the new arrangement reportedly pays Gray 31 million and 26 and includes a $10 million buyout on a mutual option for 27. And because of the third. Cardinals are paying $20 million, only $21 million of Gray's $41 million guarantee

Starting point is 00:03:05 will count against the Red Sox luxury tax total. In his two seasons in St. Louis, he combined to go 27 in 17 in 60 starts, had a 4.07 ERA, an ERA plus of 101, 3.26 Fibb, 1.164 whip. These are solid numbers, right? These are solid numbers for Sunny Gray, but not the number one type of stuff people expected out of him. The home run ball was a real problem for him. He gave him 46 dingers over the last two seasons, set a career high this past year, serving up 25 of them, constantly having to do the next turn because the home run ball was flying over the wall.

Starting point is 00:03:49 It was rough watching that. If he was able to keep the ball in the ballpark, usually had a pretty good day by Sunny Gray. But when he got it up over the plate, It was getting rocked. In return for Mr. Sunny Gray, the Cardinals are getting two young pitchers. You get a 25-year-old right-hander in Richard Fitz, aka Dick Fitz. Yes, yes, sometimes the jokes write themselves. And then 22-year-old left-handed prospect, Brandon Clark. Now, Fitz was originally drafted by the Yankees, okay?

Starting point is 00:04:23 These guys were with Boston after Heinblum left. These were not his guys. but he was originally drafted by the Yankees, traded to Boston in the Alex Verdugo deal. He was their 12th rated prospect in 2024, according to MLB Pipeline, went two and four with an ERA of five and 11 starts last season. According to his MLB Pipeline Scouting report,

Starting point is 00:04:42 the grades, Fastball 55. Remember this goes to a grading scale of 80 being the highest. So fastball 55, slider 55, change up 50, control 55. Overall, he gets a 45, even though there are no 40s in there. for whatever reason. I don't know how that makes sense,

Starting point is 00:04:59 but the write-up on his report states that both fits fastball and slider play up because of their metrics and can be plus pitches at their best. Fastball sits at 92-95, peaks at 98 with natural cut and ride, as well as plenty of induced vertical break that creates carry-up in the zone. He had a 29-19 record with a 3.74 ERA in four minor league seasons, with the strikeouts per 9 of 9.5, although at the Big League, level last year. He was only at 6.7, but this was his first real shot at the major leagues. 11 starts. So it's not like he was up there the whole year. Clark, on the other hand,

Starting point is 00:05:39 very intriguing. And I don't want to say that Fitz is like a boring guy or anything like that. But when you hear what Brandon Clark has got, that's the upside that it's a little more sexy, if you will. So Clark is there or was, I should say, their number five rated prospect this year. Now he's no longer with them. It is 22 years old, left-handed. Was it A ball last season where he went 0 and 3 with an ERA a 4.03 and 14 start? But he's got some interesting scouting grades from MBOB pipeline as well. The fastball. Remember, 80 is the best. Fastball 60, curveball 45, slider 70. The change up at 40, control 45. Overall, he gets a 50. The fastball and slider grade. those raise some eyebrows for sure when you see that when you see a 60 and a 70 you like that his report reads that he throws harder than most lefty starters sitting in 95 to 98 can reach 100 though his fastball features more downhill plane than riding or running action has unveiled a devastating slider this season with the pitch operating in the upper 80s and touching 91 with huge sweep as well as depth he has relied heavily on his heater and slater and slug

Starting point is 00:06:53 slide piece, rarely using an upper 70s curveball and an upper 80s changeup with some mild fade, both of which he struggles to land for strikes. He comes with a high ceiling and a good deal of reliever risk, making him an intriguing development project. Now, the baseball card stats for Clark, I'll be honest, they're not going to overwhelm you at first glance. His record, three and five in the miners, ERA of 4.9, 3 over 25 games. 23 of those were starts in three seasons. Nothing all that great there, right? 59 walks in 65 into two-thirds innings, yikes. You don't like to hear that. Control issues much, but on the positive side. 93 strikeouts in those 65 and two-thirds innings. That's the strikeouts per nine of 12.7. Now,

Starting point is 00:07:45 according to John Denton, he will now be the Cardinals number seven rated prospect at MLB Pipeline. The real question is, will the cardals be able to help Mr. Clark with those control issues, right? Will they be able to settle things down and get him to a point where it's not feast or fathom when he hits the mound? Again, he's only 22 years old. There is time to grow, time to learn. But think about it. Now you've got two lefty fireballers in your first round pick last year in Liam Doyle. And now Clark in your system.

Starting point is 00:08:19 Doyle will certainly be a starter. And I am guessing Clark will remain one as well for the foreseeable future. Worth a lot more to the Cardinals if he can be a starter. But obviously, when you think about fastball slider mix, you think reliever. So we'll see what his future has for him, 22 years old again. So with Gray gone, that leaves the rotation. Kind of, what's a good word for this? I want to say empty light, light a little bit, not a lot of experience in the current Cardinals

Starting point is 00:08:57 rotation. Matthew Libertor is there. Michael McGreeby. You got your newcomer, Richard Fitz, Andre Palante. I know Calais, he is set to be a starter as well, and that was reaffirmed today. I forget which one said that. Maybe it was Jeff Jones. I was been going through so many things, but I believe he was the one that said that, like, he is a starter. That's it. He's not even going to tinker with relieving. He's expected to be a starter this year. So, um, so Himes got some work to do.

Starting point is 00:09:29 But this opens up the door for, you know, you've opened up some money, obviously. You're still going to be looking to trade Nolan Aronado at some point to open up some more money. They ate 20 million to get Sunny Gray out of town. How much will they eat to get Nolan Aronado out of town? I don't know yet. Depends on what people want him. But it opens up the possibilities of doing some free agent signings. Guys, as I mentioned, like guys that are looking to bounce back from some not so great seasons.

Starting point is 00:10:02 You know, I wouldn't expect them to go after any of the top dogs. So don't think that's going to happen. But again, a guy like a Dustin May still is somebody that I'm intrigued by. It's people in that type of scenario. that I think would be a good fit for the Cardinals. I really don't want to see Andre Belonte in this rotation again. They'll give them a crack at it again in spring training to see if they've been able to fix any of the problems from last year. But I'm already over that situation.

Starting point is 00:10:30 So I would like to see them bring in some new blood. But they've also got, you know, some capable guys in the minor leagues. You know, where does Quinn Matthews and Bryce and Mott's sit in their depth chart of possible starters next season? but it looks like it's going to be a pretty young rotation. That is for certain. I wouldn't expect them to go out and sign somebody older than Sunny Gray. I wouldn't put it past them if they need to, but I wouldn't expect it. But we'll see.

Starting point is 00:10:58 You know, Max Scherzer's older. People want him in a Cardinal uniform, so we'll see what happens. But did the Cardinals get enough in return for Stunney, considering his age, the contract stuff, the financial side? Do you think they got enough? Do you like the trade? Are you just glad that it's done? and we're starting to move forward with things.

Starting point is 00:11:16 I feel like a lot of us are in that boat. But let me know in the comment section down below. Up next, we're going to discuss the 40-man moves that the Cardinals made on Monday. We will get more in depth into the sunny gray trade in another episode. But I want to talk about the 40-man moves that the Cardinals made on Monday and how one particular move could signal that more moves are still to come. This is locked on Cardinals. The NBA is back and there is no better place to get in on the action than Fandle,

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Starting point is 00:13:02 Now, a move that is certainly going to please fans, even if you're a little like, about the sunny gray stuff, a move that I cannot imagine a lot of people were upset with is the return of catcher Joelle Pozo to the organization. There weren't a ton of bright spots for the team in 2025, but Pozo was certainly one of them and an unexpected one at that, you know, the numbers, again, they're not going to jump off the page by any means when you go look at his baseball card stats, 28 years old, 67 games, 188 plate appearances, the slash line 231, 262, 375, only five home runs, 19 RBIs, hardly anything to get excited about, right?

Starting point is 00:13:42 So what's the big deal? Why is this something that's important? Well, if you're the sentimental type, which a lot of us in the Midwest are, you'll love the story about Pozo and what he endured during that COVID year when there was no minor league baseball. At that time, he was in the Rangers organization. He's in the minors, and since there was no minor league season in 2020, he and his wife and the kids were living out of a car. Have you ever tasted desperation like that in your life?

Starting point is 00:14:17 I can't even imagine what that's like. I mean, I've struggled with money before, especially in my early radio days. but nothing like this, where he's a young man in a new country, just trying to chase his dream, and a worldwide pandemic comes along and renders you homeless and unemployed. Like, can you imagine how scared that family must have been? To survive that and then get back on the horse and play again is impressive. To reach the major leagues is impressive.

Starting point is 00:14:47 I don't care who you are. You got to respect that. Now, if that doesn't do it for you, then his actions, on the field. Again, numbers weren't all that great, but the dude had some big, big moments for this team in 2025, especially as a pinch hitter, which is where he thrive. His pinch hit three run bombed that Fourth of July weekend against the Cubs at Wrigley. One of the best moments of the season. Anytime we can watch the Cubs whimper a little bit, we like it in St. Louis. The same goes for Chicago when it comes to St. Louis stuff. You do things like that against our

Starting point is 00:15:20 rivals you show up to work each day and hustle and work your tail off. Plus, he's got that infectious smile that, you know, kind of reminds you that, hey, these guys are playing a game. It's a fun game and you should enjoy it. You should always enjoy it. The fans love him. Clearly, his teammates loved him as well. They named him the Darryl Kyle Award winner this past season, which is voted on by

Starting point is 00:15:42 the players as like the most outstanding teammate. The organization loves what he can do for them despite having a strong. strong stable of catchers already at their disposal. I do want to say, let's get this out there about this signing, which is apparently a major league contract, but is a split deal that pays different rates, depending on whether he's on the MLB roster or down at AAA. He is not here, at least in my opinion,

Starting point is 00:16:08 to take any time away from the guys at the major league level. That's not what he's here for. It's not why he's signed. He's an insurance policy for a number of different situations that could happen with the Cardinals. Number one is the Yvonne Herrera situation. He's rehabbing from elbow surgery. Apparently everything's going well right now.

Starting point is 00:16:30 But sometimes things happen. You know, maybe he doesn't respond in his recovery the way they want him to down the road. So far, apparently everything's okay. But we anticipate he'll be fine already in the spring. But we don't know for certain. It's not 100%. You just never know. We also don't know how his catching skills are going to be in 2026 after not catching.

Starting point is 00:16:50 all that much this past season because of the leg injuries. They felt it best not to put him behind the plate after he dealt with multiple injuries to his lower area. You know, they wanted to keep him healthier. They needed that bad in the lineup. Now he's going back behind the plate after elbow surgery. Things could go sideways. It could happen.

Starting point is 00:17:09 So insurance policy. Number two, Jimmy Crooks was a rookie last year. And although they do have faith in him and his potential, what if he falls flat on his face again like he did last year. You know, he got called up. Didn't, didn't play a lot, small sample size, but 133, one home run and one RBI and 45 at bats. P.U. P.U. That's not good. That's not good. What if that's what he ends up coming out the gate with? Insurance policy in case something like that happens. What if the Cardinals trade one or more of their catchers away for other pieces? You've got Herrera, Pedro Pahez,

Starting point is 00:17:49 Pozo, Crooks, top prospects, Leonardo Bernal, and Raynelle Rodriguez. Bernal was just added to the 40 man to avoid the Rule 5 draft. And after a strong year, AA last year, should be ready to start at AAA Memphis this year. Rodriguez could start a AA in this situation, but he's only 18. He's going to turn 19 in January. So there's no rush with that one. Could go back to high A Peoria to start the season and just kind of take it from there. Let's see how it goes.

Starting point is 00:18:17 and if he lights it up at Peoria, you bump them up to Springfield. I wouldn't suspect the Cardinals move on from Herrera, who is one of their best bats, certainly a fan favorite after his season this past year. Crooks is still a top prospect with thump from the left-hand side. Got a nice mix there with Herrera and Crooks with a righty lefty, but Paez is arguably the best defensive catcher of the bunch. Maybe a deal goes down.

Starting point is 00:18:47 According to Derek Gould teams have shown, interest in the cardal's catching depth. So maybe something gets done, but Gould says it really depends on Herrera's ability to catch. And if he's going to be healthy when spring ball rolls around and they like what they see, if he's doing a good job and they feel comfortable with him behind the plate, they can move forward with that. Then they can perhaps pull the trigger on something. But for now, Pozo gives them an insurance policy and can be at Memphis or with the major

Starting point is 00:19:16 league team when and if they need them. So it makes a whole lot of sense to me. I was not deterred from the signing and being like, oh my God, what are we doing? Well, it makes sense. They're comfortable with them. Catching depth is important. Makes a whole lot of sense.

Starting point is 00:19:36 A lot of sense. So well done. I didn't believe him on that one. He also brought back one of the pictures that he non-tendered, as well as signing a free agent arm that was with not one, not two, but three different major league teams last season has been passed around like a plate of appetizers at a party. Now he's a part of the Cardinals. We'll talk about them next on Locked on Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:20:08 Thank you for making Lockdown Cardinals your first list every day for your second list and check out Lockton, MLB, hosted by my guy Sully, who brings you a daily blend of humor and baseball throughout the offseason. You can find Locked on MLB on YouTube or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. The Cardinals need pitching. they want to acquire pitching. Lots of the goal is to stack as many capable arms as possible. If there is one area of baseball that you want to be rich in, it's pitching starters, relievers, closers, lefty specialists, get them all,

Starting point is 00:20:37 get them all, get as many as you can put on the roster. Keep them in there because they will always have worth on the market in dollars and in trade value. So speaking of trades, one of the deals that Moseilock made a couple of years ago is relevant here because Sim Robbersa has. has also been resigned by the club after getting non-tender. The Jordan Hicks trade with Toronto landed the Cardinals two pitching prospects. It was Robbersa and Adam Klophenstein.

Starting point is 00:21:04 And neither have really made much of an impact. In fact, Clopheenstein, I think he was back with the Blue Jays organization last year. The Cardinals cut ties with him a while ago. Roberson, so last year, Adam pitched horribly. Five and four, four point five nine ERA and 16 games, 14 of them starts from Memphis and 24, struck out 76 hitters. 84 and a third innings. But then he had the injury last year,

Starting point is 00:21:27 just four starts into the season, and that was that still recovering from that. He was one of the guys along with Jerpy and Ticola Robi, who were supposed to be depth guys for the Carls down at AAA and got wiped out last year. So that was a big bummer. According to Derek Gould from STL Today.com, the contract is for 2026,

Starting point is 00:21:47 and it allows Robbersa, who had elbow surgery back in May, to continue his rehab, recover seamlessly with the Cardinals, and make his return later in 2026. So perhaps there is some value still in the sixth trade after all. But for now, that trade is a big fat. Not good. Looking back at that 2023 trade deadline when that trade went down, how did Mo actually do at that deadline?

Starting point is 00:22:13 Let's go back and see. The Cardinals moved Jordan Montgomery. Remember, that was a big trade piece for them. Huge for the Rangers because he helped lead them to a world championship. but they trade Montgomery and they get Toccoa Roby, who got hurt last year. Tommy John's surgery. He's probably not going to pitch at all this year.

Starting point is 00:22:31 But the future was very, very bright. We loved, at least I loved what I saw out of Toccoa Robi when he was in spring training. He had some big games down in Memphis and unfortunately the injury got him. Thomas C. We like him. Utility guy at the big league level right now. What's his future going to be?

Starting point is 00:22:47 He was a Texas League MVP after coming over from the Blue Jays and for the Ranger. coming over from the Rangers and then playing with the Cardinals was it was very good at double A solid at AAA kind of a loaded infield right now for the Cardinals. So I would love to see if Cajy could play some outfield to be honest with you. I would love to see that. But obviously he's going to be on the big league roster this year. John King, solid piece for the bullpen the last couple of years. They just non-tendered him. Jack Flaherty went to the Orioles at that trade deadline, netted infielder Cesar Prieto, who made his major league debut last season, very brief. It was, I think, one for six in his very brief call up, but hit 300 with nine home runs and 71 ribbies in Memphis last year.

Starting point is 00:23:34 The guy we always knew he could hit. Again, he's part of this infield where, you know, the cartels are trying to make room for guys. And, you know, it's hard to look at his back and go, oh, let's get rid of that. But I don't know. I don't know what the future for Cesar Preeto holds, another left-handed hitter. So, you know, we wait. We wait. Lefty drew Rom. Pitch for them right away, if you remember.

Starting point is 00:24:00 But injuries ruined his 2024 season. Then last year he made seven combined starts at Memphis and at Palm Beach going O and one with the 3.86 ERA. But in the four starts at AAA, they weren't very good, ERA at 5.65 and 14 and a third. He's now a free agent. They also got right-hander Zach Showalter, who was still just 21. And last year, 3-1, 3.480RA and 22 games. One of those were a start.

Starting point is 00:24:23 He was at the Florida Complex League. Then he went to Palm Beach and then he went to Peoria. So there's still plenty of ceiling there, plenty of time for Zach Schoalter to become something for this organization. But, I mean, you look at those numbers and you're like, okay, steady. Then you had Paul DeYoung. Remember when we were like, just get something for Paul DeYoung? Like, what can you get for him? Somebody wants them, right?

Starting point is 00:24:47 Anybody, anybody who's got room for Paul DeYoung? Blue Jay said, yeah, you know, we'll take him. Got Matt Sonson in return. And he became one of the best bullpen arms for the Cardinals last season. And it's going to be a huge part of what they want to do in 2026. So obviously that's a W there. So there's some good, there's some bad, which is kind of how it works. That hits trade is definitely the worst return so far.

Starting point is 00:25:12 That is not worked out. But hopefully Robersuk can come back healthy and be someone. they can use the future. He's only 24. So there's still time to develop and see what's what's what in this newly remodeled Cardinals Farm System who hopefully will do a better job producing pitching. Now the new face in town is Scott Blewett. He's going to be 30 in April, career high, 44 and a third big league getting his last past season, pitch for three teams, the twins, the Braves and the Orioles. Actually twice with Baltimore. The O's traded him to Atlanta in April, then reacquired him two months later.

Starting point is 00:25:50 Combined for a 5.480 ERA across 26 appearances, miss bats on 12.7% of his pitches, which, I mean, that's not bad, but it wasn't really a big strikeout guy, below average 18% strikeout rate, walking 9.3% of opponents. Three pitch guy, slider fastball splitter. The slider is his main pitch. The idea, I believe, for him, is just, it's another arm to compete for a spot in the spring. If it works out, great. If not, it's no big deal. It's no big deal. Like, we're not,

Starting point is 00:26:22 we're not hurt by this. But if you're keeping track, blew it and dick fits in 24 hours. Those are the names of the guys the Cardinals that have acquired. What a time to be alive. What a time to be alive. All right. What are your thoughts on everything that's gone down with the Cardinals in the last 24 hours? Sunny Gray trade. Pozo, Robertsa, coming back, blew it coming in. More trades to come. What are you expecting in the future?

Starting point is 00:26:57 Like, drop your comments down below. I want to hear from you. I need your feedback. We'll do some cardinal confessions and get more details about the sunny gray trade in our next episode. Thank you for making it locked on Cardinals your first list in every day.

Starting point is 00:27:12 If you haven't already, give us a follow on X at L1, score Cardinals into JD Sports Radio, TikTok and Instagram and Lockdown Cardinals. Like, subscribe on YouTube. If you haven't already, you can help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We will see you next time on Locked on Cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - St. Louis Cardinals Trade Sonny Gray to the Boston Red Sox in BLOCKBUSTER Deal – What Happens Now?

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