Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - St. Louis UNLOADS Closer Ryan Helsley to Mets and Matz to Boston | Did Cardinals GET ENOUGH?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The St. Louis Cardinals make not one but two trades involving Closer, Ryan Halsley and lefty, Stephen Matt. Was the return good or underwhelming? I feel like some people are disappointed. We'll discuss it on today's episode of Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals. I'm J.D. Hafford and I'm your host for Locked on Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:00:32 as part of the Locked-on Podcast Network covering your team every day. Follow me on X at JD Sports Radio and the podcast at L.O. underscore Cardinals on X. We're on YouTube as well as TikTok and Instagram at Locked-on Cardinals. Today's episode is being brought to you by five-hour energy transfusion. Go to five-hour energy.com today and use my promo code, which is locked on golf, to receive 20% off your first order, only valid through September 30th. Order transfusion flavored five-hour energy shots the day. So the trade deadline started with the bang for the Cardinals on Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:01:08 There was a slew of transactions that took place, some bigger than others. Arizona traded third baseman, E. E. E. E. Haneo Svarez to the Seattle Mariners, which is who traded him to the Diamondbacks in the first place when they were cutting payroll back in 2020. So that's kind of funny to me. Closer to home, you had the Cincinnati Reds trading with the Pittsburgh Pirates for third baseman Key Brian Hayes. and they got raised pitcher Zach Lattel.

Starting point is 00:01:33 The Phillies got their reliever in the twins, Johan de Ron would, you know, a heck of an arm, heck of an arm right there. But he kind of set the market price for what the closers were going to be worth. But the Cardinals were all so busy. We've seen the closers moving today. Mason Miller got traded from the A's to the San Diego Padres

Starting point is 00:01:54 who have not traded anybody else away as far as, like, members of their Major League squad. that bullpen is disgusting. And yay, the Cardinals get to go to San Diego this weekend and face them. Good times. But the Cardinals were also busy. As you might know by now, they moved two of their bullpen pieces and close to Ryan Helsley and Stephen Mats.

Starting point is 00:02:15 Let's go ahead and start with the Ryan Helsley trade because this was the one that was supposed to not the Cardinals, the biggest return, barring any deals for other people like a Brendan Donovan, if you would. But the Carlin. Cardinals were able to get three prospects in return for their closer, who again, coming off an NL reliever of the year award-winning season in 2024, we know things haven't gone quite as smoothly for Ryan Halsley this year, particularly with his fastball getting hit all the time.

Starting point is 00:02:45 But the slider still plays. And you knew people are going to be interested in triple digits, that slider as they move in towards the playoff situation, whether it was going to be wild card, whether it was going to be winning a division. But the Mets were the ones who jumped on it. The Cardinals sent Ryan Helsley to New York in exchange for infield prospect, Jesus Baez, right-handed pitcher Nate Dome, and right-handed pitcher Frank Ellesalt.

Starting point is 00:03:11 Now, Baez is the guy that most people are more excited about when it comes to this particular trade. He's from the Dominican Republic. He's only 20 years old, 5-10, 180 pounds. MLB Pipeline as ranked as the sixth best prospect for the Cardinals. Now he was number eight for the Mets. And the scouting grades on him are as follows. And remember, these go from 20 to 80, 80 being the best. The hit grade is 50, power 60, running 40, arm 60, fielding 50.

Starting point is 00:03:41 Overall, they give him a 50. The write-up on him says that the right-handed slugger was named New York's Dominican Summer League player of the year. That first summer, when he finished with a 744 OPS and seven homers across 54 games, His big state side breakout came in 2024 when he opened up with a 262, 338, 444 slash line, with 10 home runs in 64 games with single A St. Lucy that prompted a late June promotion to High A Brooklyn, but Baez lasted only eight games with the cyclones before suffering a torn meniscus in his right knee that required season ending surgery. So obviously that's a hurdle that he had to overcome. Baez's power blast him in 24. He managed a 104.6 mile an hour 90th percentile exit velocity.

Starting point is 00:04:25 among the Florida State League's best at just 19 years old. So you like to hear that. It stout strength from his five foot 10 frame and it helps that he can pull and lift the ball with authority. He'll shorten his movements with two strikes going from an open stance and leg kick to a more stationary load. Doesn't whiff much against any pitch type. He does chase a good amount, however. And more polished pitchers will be able to take advantage if he can't reel in that approach. The infielder will clock occasional solid home to first times, but isn't expect.

Starting point is 00:04:55 excuse me, isn't expected to be much of a runner as his body matures. Baez got looks at shortstop, third base and second before the trade, but remains likely to slide to the hot corner long term where his hands and arm strength are solid fits. He gives the Cardinals another dynamic infield talent alongside JJ Weatherholt and Iato Padilla. So far the season at two different A ball stops, 242 average 10 dingers, 42 ribbies, 76 games. So people like him. He's not considered, he was inside the top 100. I don't remember if it was MLB Pipeline or it was baseball America that did have him in their top 100 at one point this season.

Starting point is 00:05:39 I do not think he is there anymore. So definitely talented, definitely some upside there. And I know fans are going to question like, wait a second, why are we chasing after another infielder? isn't that going to cause a log jam, which we've seen over the years, the Cardinals had problems with the outfield, right? We've got too many outfielders. They're all so good. And they would trade away guys, and those guys would become studs.

Starting point is 00:06:07 And then the guys that they would keep around wouldn't quite pan out the way they thought. They just, it seemed like they made the wrong decision every time. I mean, Rosa Rana, Adolice Garcia, like, you know the drill. You don't have to keep going through this every time. But now you've got like on the infield a lot of dudes, right, that you feel pretty darn good about. But the answer to the question of whether or not this is going to cause a log jam is, no, he's 20 right now. He's only 20 years old. So who knows what the future might hold.

Starting point is 00:06:39 You traded for him because of his upside. He may never play for the cardals. He may be used as another piece down the road to go get more pitching help, which is, what a lot of people just want the Cardinals to do. And I agree with that. They need it. You know, Nato is most certainly gone in two years for sure, if not sooner. There might be a possibility that he gets dealt today.

Starting point is 00:07:03 I'm actually keeping up to date on everything while we do this, but I haven't seen anything quite yet about him. But we'll find out. But yeah, so Nato, you know, maybe this kid sticks at third base with Baez. maybe Nolan Gorman and Thomas C. Don't pan out. Maybe they have to move to different positions. We already had Gorman playing second.

Starting point is 00:07:27 Maybe C.J.C. learns to play the outfit. Who knows? Sometimes just ish happens. So to worry about what position he plays right now and all the people you have around that position, I'm not concerned about it. I think that's a little silly at this moment to be worried about that when it comes to a 20-year-old. But it is something that they'll, you know, obviously have to address. at some point or another because, you know, you're looking at, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:53 Gorman and Donovan and Sejacey and Wynn and J.J. Weatherholtz. You know, you've got what looks like to be a nice little stable of infielders going on there. So somebody's going to have to go somewhere else if they're all going to play together. So, but like I said, things happen. We'll see. It doesn't mean you're wrong for being curious as to why they would be attracted to another third basement. but I'm just saying keep it in mind. He's 20 years old. He's got a ways to go before he's even sniffing the big leagues,

Starting point is 00:08:24 hasn't even made it to AA. He's been assigned to Peoria, you know, so he's still an A ball. So then you got the pitchers that they acquired, which was the, you know, as nice as it was, we're like, okay, cool, bye guys. But we want pitching, we want pitching. We need pitching. They acquired two of them, both right-handed.

Starting point is 00:08:42 Both have shown strikeout potential. We'll talk about them coming up next on Locked on Cardinals. Time to fuel up and turn it up with five-hour energy transfusion. Now, this thing is delicious because it brings the bold grape. You get the ginger, which is, I'm a big fan of that. And the lime flavor all mixed together like your favorite golf drink, minus the alcohol. And it gives you a quick energizing shot, which is great. Whether you're sinking birdies or you're just making memories with friends, this is a whole and one for your energy game.

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Starting point is 00:10:37 Most people wanted the Cardinals, including myself, to target pitching in return for their assets at this trade deadline. Whoever they were going to move, we were hoping that they would be able to replenish the lack of pitching depth that is in their organization right now. I feel like you can find bullpit arms. I feel like that's a thing. But getting starters is not the easiest thing in the world to do. And it looks like the Cardinals got one of each, one of each. And I'm sure the Cardinals felt the same way about this. Like they were able to land a couple of these guys from the Mets as part of this Helsley trade.

Starting point is 00:11:16 One was the top 15 prospect in the Mets system while the other one, it didn't crack, he didn't crack their top 30, but he's not like some just throwaway trash prospect. We're going to start with Nate Dome, 22 years old, 6 foot 4, 210 pounds out of Zionville, Indiana, which is about, it's like 25 minutes outside of Indy. He was a 2024 third round pick out of Mississippi State. Scouting grades are as follows.

Starting point is 00:11:42 The fastball of 55. Remember, this goes 20 to 80. Fastball 55, curb ball 50, slider 55, change up 40, control 55. overall, they give him a grade of 45. Here's what MLB pipeline had to say about him. The healthy version of Dome utilizes a 93 to 95 mile an hour fastball with impressive carry to blow past hitters up in the zone. He ran the heater up to 99 in shorter stents as a sophomore reliever, a sign of what is in the tank.

Starting point is 00:12:10 And he relied heavily on the heater throughout his college career. So when you hear 93, 94 is where they normally sit. You're kind of like, oh, that's a little underwhelming compared to some of the arms you're seeing around. on the league these days. But to know that he has the ability to crank it up to 99, you know, kind of like, you know, Toccoa Robi could do that. Gordon Grispo, you've seen him hit 99 this year. So that's good to hear. Eighty-two, 85 mile an hour slider plays off the heater well, darting late glove side to get a healthy amount of whiffs, which we like. He's mostly kept his upper 70s curveball in his pocket as a pro, but the offering gives him a vertical option to.

Starting point is 00:12:48 his upper 80s changeup is often too firm and doesn't stand as a huge weapon against lefties, leading to splits concerns. Dome was a tremendous strike thrower in his two years in Starkville, but because of the forearm issues, including more during a sophomore campaign, evaluators hadn't seen that control hold up over long stents as a starter. He quieted some of those concerns in the first half of the 2025 season before this trade. The lack of a change could hurt him down the line, but there's still starter upside here given his ability to fill,

Starting point is 00:13:18 the zone. So far this year, two A ball stops for Dome. He was a combined three and five, but he's got a 2.870 RA 77 strikeouts in 62 and two-thirds innings. That's a strikeouts per nine of 11.3, which is something the Cardinals sorely miss in their organization. They need more guys who can miss bats. And it looks like Dome has the capability to not only be a starter, but if it happens to go in a different direction and me, it comes a reliever. So be it. You're seeing how important bullpins are in the game of Major League Baseball these days. I've said it before and I know it drives people nuts,

Starting point is 00:13:57 but the days of seeing guys going seven innings, they're kind of over. It doesn't happen very often anymore. You're looking for five, maybe six, and then it's bullpen time. And you need some dudes who have swing and miss in the bullpen to get you through the end of those games. and the good teams are doing it. Look what the Mets are doing. In this trade, getting Ryan Helsley along with, they've gotten two other relievers to go along with the guys he already had. So they got a bullpen now that's got four studs in it.

Starting point is 00:14:26 The San Diego Padres getting Mason Miller today to go along with three all-stars in their bullpen already. That is the way things are going. And if you don't have the horses in the pen, you're not going to win. It's just not going to work out. So you need something other than just rotation guys. You want those two, but you need the bullpen stuff. Part of the reason the Cardinals were actually good this year at times this season because of the bullpen being pretty steady.

Starting point is 00:14:54 You know, they had that fluctuation going on with guys like Chris Roycroft, Ryan Hernandez, not panning out the way they wanted him to. You know, they were looking for other guys to fill that role. They've kind of settled in on guys like Sonson and Riley O'Brien. And you need these kind of guys to, to get you through. So whether or not he turns into a starter or a reliever, as long as he keeps striking dudes out, I'll take either or, right? The second picture they were able to acquire was Frank Ellassault,

Starting point is 00:15:24 who was not ranked in the Mets top 30. He's not ranked in the Cardinals updated top 30 either, according to MLB Pipeline, but he's 6-2-10 out of Miami, 23 years old. You guys are going to love this. Comes from the same Florida school that produced J.D. Martinez and the lizard king miles michael is oh yeah uh one report says he delivers a mid 90s sinker a change up that almost serves as a splitter and a pair breaking balls from a low release points so um they like what he's got uh it just isn't like whoa amazing stuff that would crack the top 30

Starting point is 00:16:02 but it's decent so far at two stops in a ball this year four and five at the r a three point No, 64, 65Ks, and 56 in a third innings. Opponents only hitting 180 against him with a whip under one. So he's not walking dude. So he's obviously got some control. I know people wanted more. And the expectations were that Ryan Helsley was going to be worth a huge bag. And he just wasn't.

Starting point is 00:16:30 He wasn't worth as much as a Duran because he's a rental. He's only going to be on that team probably for a couple months. And then he's going to test free agency. and sure, maybe he does come back to the Cardinals. But whoever gives him the highest bid, I just find it hard to believe that the Cardinals are going to be the ones to do that. But what are people saying about this deal? Because I know Cardinal fans are kind of underwhelmed by CBS Sports.

Starting point is 00:16:55 RJ Anderson gave the Mets an A for getting Hellsley to go along. As I mentioned, Gregory Soto, Tyler Rogers that they got plus Edwin Diaz. So that's a nasty bullpen. For the Cardinal side of things, he gave him an A, saying considering that the cardals were trading a half season of a reliever, this looks like a good return, one that may lack the name brand value that the Giants received from the Mets in exchange for Tyler Rogers, but that may offer more tangible production.

Starting point is 00:17:23 So a phrase that, you know, Peter Bukowski, who does Lockdown Packers, he always says, you know, it's more bites at the apple, you know, instead of taking one really good prospect and hoping he pans out. And if he doesn't, uh-oh, you've got three bites at the apple here of one of these guys panning out, hopefully all three of them end up doing something productive for the Cardinals at some point. Keith Loppy Athletic. Originally, there was some confusion here because everybody saw him go, that is a heist. And people misconstrued that it was a heist for the Cardinals when, in fact, he meant for the Mets. So he thinks this is a really good deal for the Mets and that the Cardinals didn't get quite enough as maybe they should have.

Starting point is 00:18:06 The guys over at ESPN had it as a B grade for the Mets and an A minus for the return that the Cardinals got, saying that Bayez is the headline prospect, has plus bat speed and some high end exit velo readings. And despite being young for his league, remember, he's only 20. He has kept a strikeout rate and check at just 16%. They say, Dome is the better of the two pitching prospects. He was up to 99 is reliever for the Bulldogs. So that could be his ultimate destination. The thing that I feel is a bit of a bummer about this is that all three of these dudes are in A-Ball. They're A-Ball guys.

Starting point is 00:18:42 Doesn't mean they can't make their way up through the system quickly, but A-ball guys give me the vibe that they are like two years away minimum from making an impact at the major leagues. And as a fan, it sucks because we want to turn this ship around now. Like we don't want to wait two years for these guys to get up there and start helping the Cardinals win ball games. Like we want instant satisfaction and gratification. And this deal does not give you that at all, at least in my opinion. Again, maybe they do go up quicker than anticipated, but it's more than likely not going to be that way.

Starting point is 00:19:26 So, you know, when you get something and you acquire something, you know, you're like, good. Like you want to go play with your new toy. And these toys are not something that are ready to be taken out of the box yet. So that's, uh, that's unfortunate. Now the other trade they swung, Stephen Matts, uh, going to the Boston Red Sox, this guy, uh, the guy they got to return actually much closer to, to the major league. So we'll discuss the Stephen Matt's for Blaze Jordan deal coming up next on Locked on Carls. Thanks again for making, not liking. I don't That means for making Lockedong Cardinals, your first listen today for your second list and check out the new Lockedon, MLB Game Night, every game, every night, all season long, get local analysis on a national scale. You can find MLB game night on Lockton, MLB on the YouTube channel or wherever we listen to your podcast.

Starting point is 00:20:23 I know they're going to be discussing the trades that went down. We talked about them last night as they were pouring in late night. You know, it was kind of exciting. It was kind of fun. It's just I'm sad because the Cardinals are not acquiring talent that's going to help them win this year. And I knew this was coming. It's not like this was a surprise, but I watch everybody else and all these other teams getting all these fun names and getting ready to make a push where the Cardinals are unloading guys that are going to help other teams. And it's a bummer.

Starting point is 00:20:55 So it sucks. It's part of the reason I'm dressing all black here. I'm in mourning for yet another Cardinal season that's going to the government. grave. Stephen Matt's was dealt on Wednesday night and he is heading to the Boston Red Sox in exchange for corner infielder Blaise Jordan. Now, Blaze Jordan's name is one that has seemingly been on the list of that's going to be a future cardinal at some point. His name always popped up in chats when discussing deals, possibly between the Cardinals of the Boe Sox. And now he's headed our way. It's finally come to fruition. There's some upside to Jordan who is, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:36 he's swinging up pretty well in the minors this year, where he's been at double A and has been promoted to AAA as well. So he's on the cusp coming to the major leagues, betting a combined 308. He's got 12 home runs, 62 RBIs, 22 doubles and OPS of 872. Many believe that he might have more power in his bat still than has actually been seen so far since he's become a pro. But they've been pleasantly surprised that he's become a much,

Starting point is 00:22:03 better contact hitter than he thought he would be already. So not swinging and missing as much, taking walks. So just becoming a better all-rounded hitter. M-L-B pipeline scouting grades got him as the hit tool at 50, power at 50, running 30, arm 50, fielding 40 overall. He's a 40. ESPN said this about him that he has risen steadily one level at a time after being drafted out of high school. And so has reached triple age by age 22. too. His strikeout rate suggests good, bat to ball ability, but its powered walk numbers, portent limited secondary skills for a player whose bat is going to have to carry him. Still, he has got a great name.

Starting point is 00:22:46 It could develop into a useful lefty matching role player in the majors, the kind of performer that Cardinals have often gotten good mileage from in the past. And I can't remember where I saw what he was doing against left-handers, but it was like crazy how much he just mashed the left-hanners. And we know as somebody who has watched the Cardinals day in and day out for the last couple of years, they've had some trouble hitting those guys. And it's nice to see that they're addressing that. Like, well, let's get a guy that can smack the lefties around a little bit.

Starting point is 00:23:26 And he most certainly can. The question is, where are you going to play him? started as a third base, but is playing more at first base now. You've got some first base guys already kind of sitting there. And Burleson, who is still an outfielder. Yvonne Herrera, maybe he's going to be an outfielder. Maybe he's going to play some first. Wilson Contreras is still on this team.

Starting point is 00:23:47 So D.H, sure, slides in as the number 17 prospect. Once again, on the updated M.L.B. Pipeline, top 30 for the Cardinals, has been already assigned to the Memphis Redbirds. You know, Matt's was an expiring contract. He's a rental. He's a veteran. He's a lefty. There is some use for that.

Starting point is 00:24:08 But at the same time, how many of you thought about DFAing Stephen Mats over the last couple of years? Probably a lot of you. And to see him have a decent year this year and create some worth and be able to get somebody in return for him that, you know, is a top 17 prospect and appears to be a pretty decent hitter. Somebody that obviously Heinblum, who used to be with the Red Sox, thinks highly enough of that he's like, yeah, you might want to, you might want to check this kid out, maybe bring him in. Young guy too. What is it? 23. Is that where he said he was?

Starting point is 00:24:44 20. Let me triple check here. Hold on. 22. 22. I'm sorry. So 23 is the, the oldest player they got is the one of the pitchers from from the Met. So you got some young guys here. And it's some talent that you're bringing in to, again, you're trying to restock your prospect pool. You're also trying to rebuild your player development. And maybe these are some guys that can help with that. And, you know, lead the Cardinals into a better spot in the future. So all in all, they got a first basement, a third baseman,

Starting point is 00:25:25 two pitchers with upside. Three of them become top 17 prospects for you right away. is it less than what maybe you would have gotten in this offseason if you would dealt these guys? Because that was the risk that the Cardinals took this year was that, okay, we're not going to blow this whole thing up. We're actually going to keep some of these guys. And hopefully they have good years.

Starting point is 00:25:45 We win some ball games. And if need be, they become better trade chips later on. Not trading Helsley, Fetty and Matt's back in this offseason. I don't know what people were offering for these guys. But in hindsight, certainly I'm a. sake with Eric Fetty. He flamed out quickly and was terrible this year for the most part. His first start with the Atlanta Braves the other night did not go well either. But I don't know. I don't know what you were going to get from Mats back then. I don't know what Helsley's Worth was.

Starting point is 00:26:19 You think Helsley's Worth would have been hired considering the season he came off of. So that probably was a mistake in hindsight now, too. And it's one of the reasons why, you know, if you're going to trade guys, You trade them at their highest point. You don't hope that you're going to get another year of that stuff. Like you're like, you get out now. So that's one of the reasons why obviously with Phil Mayton, you know, he's having a very good season. He's the next guy that's probably going to get moved from the Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:26:51 They actually, you know, because they're on there. They're in San Diego now. And I believe he's one of the guys that stayed behind because they're, you know, pretty much sure that he's not going to be on this team anymore. somebody will come after him and they'll get something for him. Am I expecting a lot? Because again, he's another rental who doesn't have, you know, he's not throwing triple digits.

Starting point is 00:27:12 He's not one of those big names, but obviously he's solid. So I wouldn't expect a whole lot back. But again, he's going to be a free agent at the end of the year. You can resign him if you need to, but there's also the chance that you lose them and you don't get anything. So better something than nothing, right? And we're also waiting on word on whether or not guys like Jojo Romero

Starting point is 00:27:31 could be moved. Lars Newbar's name, even though he's been hurt and he's going to be on a rehab assignment in Springfield along with Gorman, who hit a home run in his rehab assignment. So he's somebody maybe, somebody looking for an outfielder could be interested in. Nolan Aronado's name is still getting floated out there as somebody that might get moved. We'll see. We'll see. I'm not anticipating those three guys getting moved, but I'd understand it if they, did get moved, but Phil Mayton, for sure, probably out the door. Thank you for making Lockdown Cardinals, your first listen today. If you haven't already, give us follow on X at L.O. underscore Cardinals at J.D. Sports Radio, TikTok and Instagram at Lockdown Cardinals, like to subscribe on YouTube.

Starting point is 00:28:18 If anything else breaks, obviously, we're dropping those quick shorts about different trades. So if you missed those from last night, like we had some insight and knowledge on what was going on with the Cardinals last night. So I dropped that for you last night. but, you know, make sure you like, subscribe, and you'll be able to get that content right away. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on lockdown carpals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - St. Louis UNLOADS Closer Ryan Helsley to Mets and Matz to Boston | Did Cardinals GET ENOUGH?

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