Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - These Free Agents Could Be A Good A Fit

Episode Date: November 16, 2024

- These Three Free Agents Would Be Nice Fits - Shane Bieber - Nick Pivetta - Max Scherzer - Flipping Veterans - Alec Bohm - Ryan Helsley Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms… 🎧 https://link.chtbl.com/LOSTLCardinals?sid=YouTube Locked On MLB League-Wide: Every Team, Prospects & More 🎧 https://linktr.ee/LockedOnMLB Follow on Twitter/X: @JDSPORTSRADIO Follow the show on Twitter/X: @LO_Cardinals Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! SelectQuote Get the right life insurance for YOU, for LESS, at SELECTQUOTE.COM/LOCKEDON. SelectQuote - They Shop. You Save. Gametime Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONMLB for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime. FanDuel You can start the season with a big return on FanDuel. New customers can place a FIVE DOLLAR bet and you’ll get started with ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS - if you win your first FIVE DOLLAR BET ! Visit FANDUEL.COM to get started. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) #ForTheLou #stlcards #mlb #lockedoncardinals Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

With all the talk about trading people away, does that mean that the Cardinals aren't adding anybody? Nobody? None. Today, we're going to go over some names that might be a good fit with the team and its new approach on Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals. I'm J.D. Hafford and I'm your host for Locked on Cardinals, part of the Lockedown Podcast Network covering your team. every day. Follow me on Twitter X at Jdysports Radio and the podcast at L0 underscore Cardinals. One of those of you who make lots on Cardinals first listen every day. We're free and available wherever you get your podcast. If you like the visual aspects of this show, we are available on YouTube as well. If you haven't stopped by, please do like, subscribe,

hit that notification button so you don't miss a single episode because this is a show, serving Cardle Nation and giving the best fans in baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode being brought to you by Fandall. You can start the season with a season with a big return on Fandall new customers can place a $5 bet and you'll get started with $150 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet visit fandle.com to get started. Thomas Coveyne from Redbirdrance.com joins us today. You can follow him at Thomas Govain on X and his work at Redbirdrance.com. We are into the holiday season, Thomas. How are you on Christmas decorations this early? If you can see people on YouTube with

See, I got mistletoe up behind me right now for anybody who's in a kissing mood. We've got tree and stuff up. Basically, the wife made me do it the day after Halloween. How's it in your household? Yeah, my wife, if I let her, she would have decorated the same day. But we're going to hold off until next weekend, I think. I love Thanksgiving. So I think we need to let that set and then move on to Christmas from there.

Okay. Look at you standing your ground. There are so many men out there who were jealous by the just the power. that you possess there, Thomas. All right. Make yourselves busy so there's no time to decorate them. I got you. Well, you've been busy yourself.

You've been churning out new stuff for us to read at Redwood Rants.com. I want to go through a couple of your most recent write-ups. We're talking about this offseason and everything's been geared about the Cardinals getting rid of people and trading people. But, you know, they still need people to play on this team. So you did a write-up on a few. Let's just be honest, three, three players that seem like good fits for the Cardinals. Are there the odds great that they're going to go out and make a signing for these guys?

Probably not. But the possibility is there. I'm saying there's a chance. So let's start off. And all three of these guys are pitchers, Thomas. Let's start with one that has felt like he should have been a Cardinal a long time ago. Everybody's wanted him for a while. And that would be Shane Bieber, who has spent his career.

with the Guardians. What are your thoughts on Shane Bieber? I really like him as a pitcher. There were a couple of years there. His strikeout rates gone down for the last three years or so. And 2023 was not as strong as one might have wanted. But he started 2024, only two games. He was really good in just those two games. Then he had Tommy John surgery.

If you sign him now, you're not expecting him until probably August, September next year. So a late year playoff push or you just get him that those final touches before you use him again in 2026. So whatever deal you do get with him, it had to be two, three years. I would love for him to be at the Cardinals. I think that we have enough young pitchers to hold off and to stave off until he gets up there and gets back from his injury. I think he'd be a great addition. He and Sunny Gray at the top would be a nice combo too. And you also think about beyond this year when whether or not they get traded or not, and I'm talking about Michaelis

or Stephen Matt, they won't. be in St. Louis again. At least I don't think so. And so their contracts will be up, which means that, you know, if you don't have a grouping of young guys that are ready to slide in, you're probably going to have to sign a free agent anyway. If you're not planning to win in 2025, at least the expectation is not to be pushing for the playoffs. If it happens great. But if it doesn't, it's not the end of the world. And we've kind of accepted that. But you think about beyond that where you could slide in with like you mentioned sunny gray in his third and uh you know you still have that option year with them in a fourth year uh to have them is kind of a one two with along with any of the young

guys that come up with Quinn Matthews or Michael McGreevy pans out and Palante so um it's thinking thinking beyond 2025 is what we're saying with a signing of a guy like Shambyt. Yeah he fits the competitive window well we can take 20, 20, 2025 pretty easy and then use him in the next year. And there's no need to push him. If you do sign them because it's like, all right, we're kind of cool, man. So like stick to your timeline, do your thing. And we get you back. Great.

If we need to wait, we're okay with that. We'll be fine. How about another guy? A person that some people thought the Cardinals might make a trade for at the deadline this past year, Nick Pavetta, who was with the Red Sox. Yeah, he has the qualifying offer attached to him. And I think it was Derek Gould who said that the Cardinals don't want to sign anybody that loses them a draft pick, especially as they're entering this.

reset period where they want young players draft picks prospects those kinds of things his ERA is low fours for his career he's just a Kyle Gibson I think is all he would be just to replace Kyle Gibson I would assume he'd want multiple years three years probably with an average annual value like 20 million I don't know if the Cardinals are willing to commit that to him so with his with the length of his contract and with the qualifying offer I don't think he's the best fit but his stats would be a nice bit, just not the contract side of it. Yeah, it just reminds me of the joke.

Thomas, we got Kyle Gibson at home. We don't need to go get another one. It's okay. But yeah, definitely Nick Babette has obviously been a solid pitcher. And I can see why a team that's, you know, looking to contend this year might even overpay for him a little bit just because of him just being that Kyle Gibson kind of guy that's, you know, he'll take the ball every five, six days for you. And you can stick them back there as your four or four.

five in the rotation and feel really, really good about yourself. So certainly a name to watch. And this is one. He's a hometown guy. And it's always been one of the biggest mistakes that the Cardinals have ever made where they did not want to offer Max Scherzerz or a contract a few years back. He apparently the reports are that he wanted to come home. He's from St. Louis.

And they said, nah, we're good. We're not going to get into that. And he just goes on to be awesome and be the. Max that we've seen for many, many years. He's coming off of a year with the Rangers where, you know, he's getting older. Obviously, he's in his 40s now. So it's not the guy that you remember. He's not the side young caliber guy.

But he's a guy that, you know, if we are not going to be all that great, it would still be really, really cool to have him in a cardinal uniform finally before he ends up retiring. What are your thoughts on Max? Yeah. We don't need any more legacy guy. and he's not even a legacy guy, but he feels like somebody would still sell some tickets this year.

I mean, just to see a Max Schroger start for the Cardinals, I mean, he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. That's got to draw some fans out at least. He was by no means bad last year. He had a sub-4 ERA and 43 innings, so he still has some talent in there. It's just a matter of, are you willing to swallow that two or three injuries

that might pop up for him? I don't think it'd be expensive. $5 million probably with some incentive bonuses thrown in. So it'd be a low cost, probably low risk signing as well. Yeah, and he was somebody who didn't want to get traded at the deadline last year. He was not up for that, which is why he ended up staying with the Rangers who were out of it. So I don't know what his motivation is at this point of his career, whether he's like, well, if I'm going to go out, I want to be on a contender or does he want to finally put on the birds on the bat?

And he'd be like, hey, you know, I want to end on a good note with my hometown crew. So just a couple of names to be thinking about because it's not all about just trading people away. There are possibilities of adding some people, especially now that we've got some clarity on what's going on with the TV deal and whatnot. So they have a better idea of where exactly they're going to be money wise. It doesn't mean they're changing the plan. It doesn't mean they're not going to go youth, but there is a possibility of filling in a few gaps here and there with some guys. So just some names to keep an eye on. Another thing that the Cardinals might be interested in doing is we've got to start

rethinking the way that the Cardinals think. And one of the ways that people do is kind of like how they maneuver in the market with certain guys. And we're going to go through some names that the Cardinals could perhaps like in a sign low scenario, but then be able to flip at the deadline. You know what I'm saying? Or you buy low, sell high type of thing if things aren't going well in 2025. So we'll talk about those names next with Thomas Covey on lockdown cardinals.

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Thomas Govane from Redbur Rance.com joins us today. So flipping players isn't anything new in Major League Baseball or sports in general. You sign guys to low salaries. If they work out, then you can flip them for prospects and players later on. And that that's kind of the goal, you know, kind of like what the White Sox did with Eric Fetty this year. They bought low. It worked out. They were able to flip them. And it's a scenario where you sign these guys. And then if things don't work out, it doesn't cost you enough to put you in a hole like the pricey free agents are who are going to want guaranteed deals and no trade clauses and whatnot. So Thomas, you did a write-up about some names that make sense for this type of strategy for the Cardinals in 2025. Could you do me the honor and share a few of those names with the class? Yeah, I think the key with these moves, they'll sign these guys.

They can provide value for the team this year. If the Cardinals are out of the playoff picture at the deadline, which was flipping for prospects. You're essentially buying prospects, but in a long way around. You mentioned the White Sox did it. The Pittsburgh Pirates have been doing it for years. The Detroit Tigers, there are teams that sign veterans, and you're like, you're not going to use them.

You're just trading them later. Tigers with Jack Flaherty this year. A role of this chat, I think. worked out beautifully for him. Yeah, I think I rolled as Chapman every year is that guy for Ripper signs it. For sure. But some guys that I thought, Nick Pavetta, we talked about him earlier. He's not the most ideal candidate, but there's other guys.

Walker Bueller might be on a one-year prove-it deal if he pitches well for us, and he proves it. We'll trade him for some value. Michael Soroka has had injuries the last three years, so he's also in a similar bucket. If he pitches well, we'll flip him. And then, Sean Maniah, he might have priced himself out of our range with this playoff performance, but he's still in a similar area as well. Someone who might be looking for a short-term deal, we can sign him. He can fill all three, all four of those guys can fill a spot for us and fill a need

for the first half and then we can just flip them for some prospects later if we're out of the playoff picture. If we're in the playoff picture and they're doing well, keep them, let it run. Or you do the tigers and you trade them anyway and you're still going to playoff. You just go on this magical run that nobody saw coming and now you're in a perfect world. Yeah, it's where everything worked out for Detroit at the end of the year last year. That was that was crazy. And that's, you know, sometimes those things will happen for you.

And, you know, and again, when it comes to the Cardinals and I know fans are going to hear this. They're like, what, no, no, that's not what we need to do. We need to go get this guy for seven years and 180 million and blah. It ain't going to work that way anymore. That's just exactly what they don't want to do. They're going opposite from that. And they're going to let the young guys play. but this is a city and it's a team and a franchise that still has some clout around Major League Baseball.

And it wouldn't shock me if some of the veterans, like you mentioned, like a Walker Bueller, although I think maybe somebody would take a risk on him with a better than one-year deal, considering who he was before all the arm injuries, possibly. Maybe not, maybe not. But, you know, some of these veterans who do have something to prove and are coming off injury seasons or whatnot. and they'd be like, dude, I would love to be able to play for the St. Louis Cardinals and do this instead of going to one of the bottom feeder teams and no offense to those teams, but, you know, the legacy the Cardinals have had over the years is being a winning franchise.

I mean, we're talking about them as if they didn't just win 83 games. Like, it's not like they were just crap last year, you know, this is still a solid foundation. And yeah, they want to let the young kids play, but there's also some chances here that if you can find a guy that is willing to take a lower price and he's somebody that you're like, dude, we're going to need some veterans of some sort. I mean, there's a possibility that they could bring in a guy or two, specifically in the bullpen is what I'm looking at. Obviously, the trading guys like a Stephen Mats or a Miles Michael is kind of hinders what

we can do in the rotation, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities. And it's just a different way that you're going to have to look at this Cardinals franchise. at least this year, probably the next year after that as they tried to reset this whole thing and let the younger guys get the abats and get the innings to see if they are worthy of keeping them or is it time to move on and get some other guys. So speaking of trades and guys that, I mean, I guess we can call them a veteran at this point. I think Alec Baum is 28 years old, but there's been some discussion about the Phillies moving on from Alec Baum.

They're trying to switch things up. whatever they put together, which, in my opinion, it was an awesome team, but for whatever reason, they just can't seem to win the title. Ownership is like, we want to switch things up. We want to do something new.

A guy that I brought up that it seems like would be a pretty good fit. Philadelphia is one Nolan Aronado. And they've been kind of dangling Alec Ballam out there as somebody that they'd be willing to move. What are your thoughts on a trade between the Cardinals and the Phillies? and bringing in Alec Bohm in exchange for Nolan Aronado and, you know, cash consider, whatever else needs to be done to kind of facilitate a trade like that. Is that a good idea in your opinion or is that not a great idea? I think it'd be a fine idea.

It obviously depends on how Arnado plays for the Phillies and Bone plays for us, of course. But Bowman has good on-base skills. He's a high average guy. His defense is still plus. R&A level, like prime R&Ato level, but he's still a plus defender at third base and has been for the last few years. My only worry about it is he'll be blocking people. I think I'd rather Brendan Donovan at third base than Alec Bone for the next two, three years.

Boehm's not the fastest guy out there, but he can still hold his own. I'd be an acceptable trade for a team that is in the exact position that the Cardinals are for giving. If we get a prospect with Boe as long as we send some money, I think that's, That's the key. That's the kicker. If it's just Aronado and cash for Alec Bohm, I think that's where we run into some problems. But if we can get another guy that we could use two years down the road, 2026, whatever it is, I think that's what's going to make a little bit of a difference for the trade and the Cardinals benefit. Yeah, because we're talking about Nolan Aronado and we keep bringing up how, oh, man, what a rough year, man.

He's just, ugh, not Nolan Aronado. 272, 16 home runs 71 RBIs. Alec Bome, who most people consider it to have a, had a really good year, 280, 15 home runs, but he knocked in 90. But you look at the difference in the lineups and who Alec Bome was hitting around. You're like, well, you can see how he got to 90 RBIs where, you know, Nato was kind of stuck in an offensive lineup that it was struggling throughout the year. So very comparable stats.

But if you can unload that money and let Philly take it, who goes on a half, have a problem digging into their wallets and paying for guys. Maybe that makes sense. And as far as on the Nolan Aronado side of things, I feel like that's a good place for him. I know the Philly fans can be a little rough and Nolan's kind of a sensitive guy and takes things very personally, but he wouldn't be the main focus of that lineup, just like Alec Fulme was not the focus of that lineup. You know, he would slide behind guys like Schwabre and Harper and Castiano's and Real Muto and all these guys at the Philly and Tray Turner. Like they got. got all these guys that are, you know, a level above what Nolan Arna Nato is at this point in his career.

So I feel like it would be a decent fit. So I'm curious how they feel about that. Obviously, the Alex Bregman free agency is something that's going to alter the market for Nolan Arnado, depending on where he goes and what he signs for and whatnot. So that is something that we will look forward to. And maybe that'll help things out. We've also heard some maturity issues about Ali in the Phillies, which is weird to me because if you've seen the Phillies celebrate every time they won a division or they, you know,

that team looked like it was having a whole lot of fun. And if he's too immature for that group, that's hilarious to me. Yeah, right. What's he doing in there putting whoopie cushions under people's chair? Like what was he doing that is so immature? So that was an interesting thing that was brought up. So we'll keep an eye on that. I want to talk a little bit about Ryan Housley coming up next because obviously he had a big night last night.

Do the Cardinals have to trade Ryan Housley? It's the question that I keep getting from fans. We'll talk about it next with Thomas Gauvain on Locked on Cardinals. Get ready to tackle the NFL action with Fanduel America's number one sportsbook because right now new customers can bet $5 and get $150 in bonus bets. If you win, the Fandle Sportsbook app gives you everything you need to place live vets on the NFL all in one place. you get a hunch in the middle of the game like last night, things weren't going well for the Washington commander's offense. I had a hunch that they weren't going to do all that much.

So I was starting to, you know, eagles are starting to fly around that place. Maybe you ought to do something as far as, you know, in-game bets with that. You can check out the latest stats. You can view live play-by-play and so much more on that same page where you place your bets. So what you need to do so you can take advantage of this is visit Facebook. Vandal.com and join today. You'll get started once again with $150 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet. That's fandle.com. Never waste a hunch and make every moment more with Fandle, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. Thank you again for making Lockton, Cardinals, your first listen today for your second list. And I encourage you to go find Lockton MLB, baseball guru Sully brings the daily blend of humor and baseball, keeping you updated on all the things and teams during the offseason. he'll obviously be covering the Cardinals, but all of our enemies in the NL Central

and everybody else. Obviously, the Juan Soto Talk is the one that is really kind of running the engine right now. He's taking all these meetings and people are flying them in and out of places. And, you know, he's the rock star right now. So after he ends up signing, Domino's will start to fall a little bit more. But we got winter meetings coming up. And Sully's going to cover all of that. So find Lockdown and it will be on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast.

Thomas Gauvain from Redwood Rance.com joining us here today. Last night, I don't know if you watched the show, if you had the ability to, but Ryan Halsley had a nice night on Thursday, winning a couple of, one award and then being elected to the first team. But he took home that Trevor Hoffin award for the NL's best reliever and also landed on the first team all MLB squad with the Guardians

Emmanuel Claisse. And Thomas, it doesn't matter how many times we expect. explain this, but fans will continue to ask me, why are we trading him? Why do we have to trade this man away? And I kind of want to clarify the reasoning behind it, because the Cardinals technically, they don't have to do any of this stuff. Like they don't have to trade, Healsley. They don't have to trade Nolan Arna. Or not or these guys. It's not like they don't have money to do it. They're just trying to go in a different direction. And after not finding success with the way and the model of

things that they have done the last few years. So they're trying to switch it up and get better at different things, which is why you're hearing all of this. But I've said it over and over, and maybe if you tell them why, they'll understand it. But why would the Cardinals be trying to trade somebody who is so good like Ryan Helsley, top of the game, arguably the best closer in baseball? Why are they doing this? Explain it to it.

Yeah, and you're going to be put under fire here for this one. They're trading, looking to trade Ryan Helsley because a team that isn't actively trying to win a World Series does not need an all-star all-star closer. That's what it comes down to. His value is so high in the trade rooms that he can net probably one top hundred prospect and then another fringe guy. He could probably get a real legit MLB player, the starting pitcher possibly even. It all depends on who you're trading him with. But we don't have a need for his talent, which stinks because we've needed real good. pitchers from our system for years now. We have one. We have to offload him just due to timing.

And it's also a money thing as well where he's going to get the big raise in arbitration this year. And the Cardinals can afford it. It's not like he's going to get 40 million out of nowhere. Like it's going to be people are projecting like eight million. It's not like they can't afford that. It's no bit. I mean, he's paid Keenan Middleton to do nothing for $6 million. So they can do this. But it's also after that. his free agency will come up where you see deals that some of these guys got like a Josh Hader and Edwin Diaz and stuff. And the Cardinals have never been a team that's really going to pay that type of premium for a closer.

Well, they are. It's just going to be for Greg Holland, who's going to fall off the cliff. Exactly. Exactly. So, and that's one of the other problems with closers is they can burn out real quick. Just as bright as he is right now, he's one injury away from being toast. And, you know, this is where you mentioned the trade value that's going on with Brian Halsley. Like he's never been worth more than he is right now where you still get a year of him.

And you have the ability to sign him in the free agency if you want to, if he likes what he's doing, wherever he goes. But, I mean, you're talking about, I mean, how many times does a premium closer become available for trade? And then you've got teams like we saw Walker Bueller closing games for the Dodgers in the World Series. Like, you don't think some of the teams like in these big markets are like. Like, dude, that would be pretty awesome if we get our hands on a guy like him. So that is the reason why Ryan Helsley is in trade talks. It's nothing personal. It's all business.

And I kind of compared it to running backs in the NFL where, dude, if you got a good one, that's great. But you can find another one probably, you know, that throws 99 these days. You know, you can teach to be a closer as well. And it's just, it's easier to do that, it seems like, than to pay a guy crazy money. And if it doesn't work out, then you're kind of in trouble. So that would be the Ryan Helsley reasoning why he is on the trade block. So it's not that they don't like him. It's not that we want to trade him.

But you're going to listen. You're going to listen and see what you can get for him. Because if somebody is willing to sell, like you said, to trade somebody who's a top 100 prospect, for the way Cardinals are doing things right now, that would be huge. Yeah, it'd be huge. Reset the farm system a little bit better, which is getting quite good if you saw Baseball America's list. But it'd be a good addition to the farm system that we need for the next four or five years.

All right. Well, we got to wrap things up. We went a little bit long. So we've got to wrap it up today. But Thomas is going to join us again next week. We want to start talking about some of the key members of this team that are currently on this roster as of right now who are going to be key members for the squad next week who are the guys that are the need to step up and be a bigger impact for next season so we'll have that

discussion with thomas and a whole lot more coming up next week with them but as always buddy i appreciate your time thanks for hanging out today and enjoy your weekend absolutely thanks for having to jdd and thank you guys for making locked on cardinals your first listen every day if you haven't already give us a follow on twitter x at l underscore cardinals and a jd sports radio obviously follow Thomas on X as well and follow all his work at redbird rants.com. Please like and subscribe on YouTube and help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. We're almost at 11,000 subscribers. Who's going to be that magic 11,000 subscriber could be you.

You're the best fans in baseball for a reason. And we will see you next time on Locked up on artists.