Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Turner Ward Is Out, Could A Former Cardinal Become The New Hitting Coach?

Starting point is 00:00:00 After the offense struggled once again in 2024, the St. Louis Cardinals have decided they are going to part ways with hitting coach, Turner Ward. This is Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm J.D. Haffern and I'm a national radio sports anchor. Born and raised in the Lou, with a lifetime Cardinals fan. And I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:00:31 Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network covering your team every day. you can follow me on Twitter X at JD Sports Radio and the podcast at L0 underscore Cardinals. I want to thank those of you who make locked on Cardinals your first listen every day. We are free and available wherever you get your podcast. You can also find us on YouTube. Stop by, like, subscribe, comment, being part of the show, get that notification button, knock that sucker so that, you know, when the new episodes are posted. It's a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving the best fans in baseball,

Starting point is 00:01:01 all of the info about the birds on the bat. This episode brought to you by booking.com. Booking dot, yeah, the right stay can make you a fan of any city, even your baseball rivals. Book today on booking.com, the official accommodation partner of Major League Baseball, get the booking.com app today. So the season of change is not exactly how I describe what's going to happen with the Cardinals, although we're hearing the word, we're saying the word change a lot for what the Cardinals are going to be in 2025.

Starting point is 00:01:31 It's more of a season of transition. really, no, because there's not a ton of change that's really happening. I mean, John Moseilock's still in charge, right? He's still there for one more year. Your manager's not changing. Ali Marmal, he's still there for at least one more year and is still under contract for two more after this season. The roster, it's going to have some turnover, but you get that pretty much every year, you know, for almost every team. You know, there's going to be some sort of turnover as they transition. Again, from older, expensive players to younger, more cost efficient wants. But there has been a change made. And it's something that I think a lot of us thought was going to happen.

Starting point is 00:02:19 But the team has reportedly made it official that according to Katie Wu from the athletic, multiple sources have told her and the athletic that Turner Ward is out as the Cardinals hitting coach after two seasons. Now, Turner Ward was hired by the Cardinals as an assistant hitting coach in 2022. It was promoted to the hitting coach position before the 2023 season. Previously, a hitting coach with the Cincinnati Reds, the Los Angeles Dodgers, and the Arizona Diamondbacks, as well as a minor league manager and hitting coach. Now, Wu points out in her story on the athletic that the Cardinals posted a collective 704 OPS, tied for the sixth lowest in the national league and hit the fourth fewest,

Starting point is 00:03:02 home runs at 165. St. Louis's numbers were especially glaring with runners and scoring position, something we all know, right? It was just brutal, where they ranked last in the National League and multiple offensive categories. The Cardinals team average 229. Slugging percentage, 342. OPS 645 with runners in scoring position were the worst in the league,

Starting point is 00:03:27 as were their 27 home runs and 433 are. guys. It baffled us all season long. Why? Why was it so difficult for these guys who weren't bad hitters when runners weren't in scoring position? What was it? What changed? Was it a mental thing? Was it an approach thing? What was going on that caused them to suck so bad that they were worst in almost every category across the board other than like the Chicago White Sox who have the most losses in the history of baseball in one season for the modern era. Like what caused this? She continued saying that the cardinals are expected to retain assistant heading coach Brandon Allen and game planning coach Packy Elkins along with first base coach Stubby Clap,

Starting point is 00:04:22 whose contract was set to expire at the end of the year. Now, we knew that somebody, somebody was going to have to fall on the sword here, right? After the issues, the team has had the last couple of seasons with their office, where it seemingly just continued to falter overall. And Ward appears to be that person. You know, it's not John Moseylock, it's not Ali Marmal, it's going to be your hitting coordinator. that it takes the fall. And I've said repeatedly that it's kind of a shame. And this happens in in all sports, in all sports. It's a shame that the coaches end up taking the fall for the

Starting point is 00:05:06 incompetent GM who builds the team. Like he's the one who put this thing together. I can only do so much with what I got here. So when the GM builds a bad roster or, you know, players just regress and aren't as good. It ends up being the coach's fault. They're the ones to get fired for this. You know, like, let me put it in this scenario, okay? If Turner Ward was the hitting coach for an offense like the Dodgers, where the Dodgers all of the sudden suck at hitting overall and especially with runners in scoring position,

Starting point is 00:05:48 with Shohei Otani, Moogie Betts, Freddie Freeman, and all the other sluggers they got there. It's Oscar Hernandez, Tommy. admin now, like Max Muncie. Would all of these guys just go on the toilet? Because Turner Ward is the hitting coach. They would just cease to be good anymore. They would just fall apart. Turned to do it just a group of hot garbage and be unable to hit with Rutgers and scoring position. Probably not, right? If he was the Padres hitting coach, would they be terrible all of a sudden? Probably not. Probably not. Is it Turner Ward?

Starting point is 00:06:27 fault that his buddies, Paul Goldschman and Nolan Aronado, have regressed with age. I mean, he was there. He was on the staff in 2022, but Paul Goldschman won an MVP in Orlando finished third. He didn't suck then, did he? Is it his fault, the Wilson Contreras was hurt for half the year? Because Contreras's numbers have been good since he's been in St. Louis. He was doing very well this year when he did play. There are some other positives that.

Starting point is 00:06:59 we're coming out of this roster offensively. Mason win had a really good rookie season under Ward's tenure. Alex Burleson progressed this year and became a better hitter. Had what some are calling a breakout season. I feel like it was a breakout couple of months and then things stalled for Alec Berluson. But hopefully they'll get that to continue to progress. So there are some things that happen with this team offensively where you're like, well, there were some positives here.

Starting point is 00:07:32 But at the same time, but at the same time, for some reason, they're unable to figure out how to figure out the problems of some of your top prospects like Nolan Gorman and Jordan Walker at the major league level. You know, why is it that when a young guy struggles, they have to ship them to the minors instead of being able to fix them at the major league level?

Starting point is 00:07:51 Nolan Gorman belongs in the major leagues. Jordan Walker belongs in the major leagues. they shouldn't have to go down to Memphis to figure out what the hell's wrong with them. Like the people who are on your staff now should be the ones that are able to fix them. So they're there for it. So they get paid for it. Like why should it be like, well, he's your problem. You guys figure it out.

Starting point is 00:08:12 We got to do stuff up here. That shouldn't be how it is. You know, why was it that, you know, Ryan Ludwig was the guy that picked up on the leg kick thing for Victor Scott the second this year, which unlocked him offensively? Ward didn't come up with that small adjustment, couldn't say, hey, you know, try this, try that or whatever. Now, we did hear that Victor Scott was very much opposed to trying that for a while and then finally did it and then it worked. And so we did hear that. But again, I don't know the conversations behind the scenes. I'm not in the clubhouse, you know, anything I ever heard that was spoken out loud and publicly about Turner Ward, nothing.

Starting point is 00:08:55 It was never going to be bad. it was always that these guys are, you know, the same with Dusty Blake, was that these guys are doing everything they can. They have us well prepared. You know, I mean, if I, if I give you all the information that is humanly possible about how to attack a certain pitcher or what you need to do in certain situations, but physically you don't do it, I don't know how that's my fault. Why isn't it their fault, the players?

Starting point is 00:09:25 So maybe this is just another change of voice type of situation for the Cardinals. Maybe that's what's going on here. And don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing that they should be keeping Turner Ward. I'm not saying that by any means. Don't misstrue this. It's like, you know, I think there should be some change going on here. You know, I've brought it up before that there are people who were regressing that that's an issue.

Starting point is 00:09:52 A lot more people were going down instead of going up. So that's not what I'm saying. But the Cardinals have done this for a while now. You know, Ward wasn't the answer. Okay. The guy before him. Remember Jeff Albert? Apparently he wasn't good enough.

Starting point is 00:10:10 Although, remember Mo was going to actually bring Turner Ward back. Or bring Jeff Albert back said that, hey, yeah, we were going to offer him a contract. And he declined it. It was like, nah, give me the hell out of here. Everyone wanted him fired. The whole fan base. were ready to destroy that man. They did not like Jeff Albert for whatever reason.

Starting point is 00:10:30 John Maybrey and Mark Budaska before that, apparently they weren't the answer to helping this Cardinals offense. Mark McGuire was there. This is how far we're going back. Mark McGuire was there before those guys in 2010 to 2012 left the team because he wanted to work closer and be with his family in California. So we took the same job with the Dodgers instead. So we've had this revolved.

Starting point is 00:10:54 door of hitting coaches for almost 15 years now. So is it, what's the real problem here? All these guys are just bad coaches for the Cardinals. They just suck. Or is there something more to this that, you know, there's an organizational philosophy that's not clicking? You know, why do young players leave this organization? They don't live up to expectations and then seem to fare better elsewhere.

Starting point is 00:11:21 Why? Why is that? these are the questions I'm wondering. So I don't know who the answer is to bring in and help fix this situation. But I know our buddy Thomas Govain from Redwood Brants.com. He listed a grouping of potential replacements for Ward, if he were to indeed be let go at the end of the season. So now that that has come to fruition,

Starting point is 00:11:46 let's go back and revisit those names that Thomas had listed. We'll do that next year on Lockedars. on Cardinals. Life gets busy and even the most dedicated gym goers struggle with consistency. You've got the commute that it takes to get to the gym, depending on what time of day is, it can be rough, right? If you're leaving from work and you're in like major traffic time, it sucks trying to get to the gym. You got to deal with the traffic. You got to find parking at a gym. Sometimes that's not an easy thing to do. You got to wait for the weights. Why you're sitting there? You're like, okay, what else can I do? Because this person is on their phone and isn't lifting.

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Starting point is 00:13:43 That's tonal.com. use promo code locked on MLB for $200 off your purchase. That's total.com promo code Locked on MLB for $200 off. Thank you for making Locked on Cardinals your first listen every day. You can leave your comments on YouTube as well as on Twitter X anytime you want your feedback. Always welcome and encouraged. So now that Ward is out, who are some candidates to take over that position? Once again, our friend of the show, Thomas Govain from Redbirdrance.com, made some suggestions in a blog. this was like in August, I think, is when he actually started putting this list together.

Starting point is 00:14:26 And I wanted to revisit them because a lot of these guys that he had listed are still top candidates to do this. Like, not much has changed since then to now with these guys. So we'll start off with Howie Clark. Now, Howie Clark has been the hitting coach for the Cardinals AAA affiliate, the Memphis Redbirds, since January of 2023. Prior to coaching in Memphis, Clark coach for minor league teams of the Baltimore Orioles, the Chicago White Sox got his first and only taste of Major League coaching in 2020

Starting point is 00:14:57 when he was brought on to be an assistant hitting coach for the White Sox. Now, here's what Thomas says about him. Clark seems to be the safe play here as he's familiar with the organization after having coached for two years in the system now. Also players such as Thomas and Jacey, Jordan Walker, Victor Scott the second, Mason went. Luke and Baker, Yvon Herrero, Pedro Pahas are all quite familiar with them. Like, you can go with all this youth movement stuff that the Cardinals are getting ready to embark on.

Starting point is 00:15:26 And they've all been with him before. They've all been with them and had success in the minor leagues with him. These players are poised to be the young core of the roster heading into 2025 and 2025. So Clark's familiarity with this crop of young talent could vote well for his case to supplant Turner Ward. I think it makes a lot of sense if they're going to stick. within the organization, if they're going to go with the internal choices. Howie Clark is certainly a guy that, again, when you have familiarity with these young guys, you've already been able to kind of unlock some good things with them before.

Starting point is 00:16:03 Why not? Why not? Why not have something like that where these guys are comfortable with them? I mean, you kept sending people down to learn from them anyway because you couldn't do what you needed to get done at the Major League level. so why not bring them up here and quit sending them out of town and have to go back to AAA to become better hitters. Makes sense, right? Next on his list, Donnie Acker.

Starting point is 00:16:27 Ecker is currently an offensive coordinator for the Texas Rangers. This is what Thomas says. The cardal hired Ecker in 2015 to work in player development. And he stayed in St. Louis for three years. He was also the hitting coach for Palm Beach in 2015 and 2016 and Peoria in 2017. He moved up quickly to become the Los Angeles, Triple A hitting coach in 2018. The Cincinnati Reds hired him as their assistant hitting coach in 2019.

Starting point is 00:16:52 He worked as a hitting coach for the San Francisco Giants in 2020. And he's been the bench coach and offensive coordinator of the Texas Rangers since 2021. What he says about him is that, you know, Ecker coming over to be a hitting coach would be more of a lateral move, which may not be something that he wants to do. But maybe it does. I don't know. Donnie Ecker, though, another guy on the list.

Starting point is 00:17:16 that, you know, had some, some ties with the Cardinals before. So maybe it's something they could work out if they are going to step outside the current organization to bring somebody back in. He next list Brandon Allen, who, you know, we talked about reports of the club is going to keep him on board. It says they're keeping him on board as the assistant. So I guess that takes him out of the running to actually take over the job. So maybe not.

Starting point is 00:17:45 Maybe it's something that they go and look at some other options and then they say, you know what? We like Brandon Allen. Let's just promote him. Join the organization as a coach of 2017 for the Johnson City Cardinals. The team's rookie league affiliate moved up the ranks each year to become the hitting coach for the Memphis Redbirds in 2020. Since November of that year, Alan has been the assistant hitting coach for the Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:18:07 Promoting Brandon Allen feels like a Cardinal move, says Thomas. It isn't sexy. It isn't noisy, but it is comfortable and familiar. He's worthy of a promotion given his toiling in the lower levels of baseball, but the team's poor offensive output these past three years doesn't vote well for his case. And that's another thing is like, well, he's been here while they haven't done so well. So why would we promote him if things have been going the wrong direction? But again, we don't know the conversations behind closed doors.

Starting point is 00:18:35 We don't know maybe Brandon Allen felt a little different about things than Turner Ward did. And that's why there was some issues. I don't know. I really don't know. The other guys he mentions Brave sitting coach Kevin Siteser and then former Cardinal Jim Edmonds in that article as possible replacements.

Starting point is 00:18:54 But to me, those aren't, that seems pretty far-fetched. Why would Kevin Siteser ever leave Atlanta to go to St. Louis? I mean, he's got a darn good thing going in Atlanta, so they're not going to overpay for it if they're cutting salaries and stuff. So that doesn't seem like anything that would happen.

Starting point is 00:19:10 And then as much as I enjoy, I'm one of the people I think that enjoys listening. Jim Edmonds on the telecast, talk hitting and stuff. I think he gives great insight into it. My thing with Jimmy is that he doesn't seem like someone who would want to get out there and be a part of a 162 game grind, right? Like, I think Jimmy likes doing what he does right now. He gets to do some TV stuff, but he doesn't have to do all of it. And, you know, he still, you know, he obviously talks to hitters and stuff and gives them some advice here and there. So I think he likes his role. I think he's very comfortable there. Does this Bally stuff that has happened? Is that going to change who's going to be on these

Starting point is 00:19:54 telecast and stuff? I don't know. I really don't know. But I think Jimmy likes his role that he's in right now. But, you know, as a special advisor of some sort of the hitting coach or whatever, I could see that kind of a role. But I just don't feel like Jimmy would want to be out. out there on the road and do what it takes to be a full-time hitting coach. There are other former players that might fit the mold, though. Ryan Ludwig, who we talked about helping out with Victor Scott. Is he somebody they're looking at? John Jay is not coming back with the Marlins.

Starting point is 00:20:28 It's somebody they want to bring into the fold and maybe give him a shot. Matt Holiday, Matt Holiday, almost had him on board before he stepped down. His bench coach was like, eh, never mind. I don't want to get into that. But he's got another son that is either he'll get drafted, but he'll either go pro or go to college, but he's still got another son and Reed. And then he's got his daughter, Grayson. So, you know, one of the things that he didn't want to leave his family yet,

Starting point is 00:20:54 wanted to be around more. So, you know, I'm just spitball in here. These are some other names and ideas that are out there. People have brought up Albert Poo holes. I know it would be cool one day to see a Yadi manager. and then an Albert Pooleholds hitting coach and then maybe bringing Adam Lane right as your pitch to go. I mean, that would be fun.

Starting point is 00:21:12 Chris Carber, get the gang all together and make them all coaches again. Someday, maybe, but I don't see it happening next year. But ultimately, I would expect someone from within the organization to take the role. Or if it is somebody who isn't currently here, it'll be somebody who has been here at some point before that that they know and can trust and aren't worried about coming in and just trying to be like, no, you guys are doing all this wrong.

Starting point is 00:21:38 We've got to fix all this and stuff. Like, they don't want that, I don't think. They want somebody that just can relate to the hitters a little bit better. Maybe I would assume. New voice, but same message probably because that's kind of what the Cardinals do. Anyway, leave your thoughts below on what you think. Who's a guy that you want them to bring in or look at? Who do you think is more likely to get hired as the new hitting coach?

Starting point is 00:22:02 What are you guys thinking about this? Let me know in the comments section and on Twitter X. We're going to take a look at the player. I'll picture next as the wild card round came to an end and the division series begin. That's next on Lockdown Cardinals. This episode of Locktown Cardinals is brought to you by booking.com. Booking.com. Booking. Yeah. Explore those U.S. cities you always secretly wanted to learn more about.

Starting point is 00:22:24 I've got some personal favorites across the country. I like Miami. I like places with sunshine. I like Miami. I like San Diego, L.A. Nashville's great, obviously. Las Vegas. But New York and Boston are cool. New Orleans is cool. Kansas City. These are some of my favorites. And all of these places have hotels and bed and breakfast and vacation rentals, resorts, and so much more. And you can get to them with booking.com.

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Starting point is 00:23:35 Booking.com, booking.com. Booking. Yeah. Megan Locktown Cardle's your first listen today. Check out the Lockdown MLB podcast with my man Sully. Prepare for the fall classic who has got you covered each and every single day talking about the latest things going on in the baseball playoffs. You can find the link to Lockdown MLB on the description. That way you don't have to search. It's part of the Lockdown podcast network, your team every day. MLB playoffs, we're moving on to the division rounds this weekend. Last night, the Brewers got bounced by the Mets when Closer and St. Louis native, Devin Williams, blows the 2-0 lead in the ninth inning.

Starting point is 00:24:17 Kind of shocking, to be honest. I mean, Milwaukee was going crazy. Like that place was nuts. 2-0-0 lead. Your closer, one of the best in baseball on the mound. You do not perceive that being a problem. But lead off-walk to Francisco Lindor, Brandon Nemo, one-out single, brings up the polar bear Pete Alonzo.

Starting point is 00:24:36 Going to be a free agent this off-season, biggest hit of his career. Alonzo hits a go-ahead, three-run, opposite field, home run, on Williams changeup, which was very important because that is a pitch, the airbender, as they always call it, a pitch that he had not given up a home run on all season. Had thrown it like 170 something times this year. Nobody had taken him yard. And Pete Alonzo goes Apo on him to give the Mets the lead. It was the 10th go ahead, home run in the ninth inning or later of a winner take-all game in postseason history.

Starting point is 00:25:08 And it was the first of those to come with the players' team trailing. I also saw something last night afterwards, John Boy posted something about Williams, maybe tipping his pitches, where you could tell with the way his positioning on his glove was and where his arms were if he was going fastball or change up, and that the Mets might have picked up on that. And that's what led to them getting the upper hand on him and the Brewers. And when you go watch the video, it makes sense that they pick up on it and even shows a little part where it looks like that's the change up.

Starting point is 00:25:42 and you see Pete Alonzo going, okay, they kind of knew what was coming, and they took advantage of it. Teams entered the day seven and in 105 when trailing, entering the ninth inning and winner take all postseason games. They were two and 82 when trailing by multiple runs, entering the ninth inning. That record now, 3 and 82. The Mets join our wonderful Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:26:05 Game 5, 2012 NLDES against the nationals. I remember I was at a bonfire party. at the time when that game was going on, they fell behind. And I was just like, ah, I'm going to drink my sorrows out by this fire, by this, but by this big bonfire that we had. And I went in to get another drink and looked on it. And I was like, ooh, I was like, they got a little something cooking here. And then it just kept going and going and going.

Starting point is 00:26:34 So that was fun to watch. That caught me off guard. So you had that game. And then you had the Braves in Game 7 of the 92. LCS against the Pittsburgh Pirates. That's the Sid Bream play. I also saw photos of the brewer's staff wheeling away the celebratory beers and champagne from the locker room. It looked like they had Budweiser products in the cart there, which that makes the Miller folks feel up in Wisconsin.

Starting point is 00:27:03 But I thought that was a little bit interesting. So anyway, I feel bad for our guy Chuck over at Locked Up Brewers, who again had been saying. at all along. He's like, we're good in the regular season, but we choke in the postseason. And I was like, you know, you feel a little different this year. And he goes, I don't know, man. And there it is. There it is. They're out. So division series games will start this weekend. You've got an AL central battle between the Tigers and the Guardians, two teams that have surprised everyone. Nobody really thought they were going to be there, especially the Tigers with their late run to get in. And they knock off the Astros, which nationally, everybody was like, yes.

Starting point is 00:27:42 in L. East confrontation between the Mets and the Phillies now. I'm sure that one is going to be super duper heated. That's going to be a hot series. That's going to be an interesting one. The Royals will be in New York against the Yankees. So kind of a David and Goliath situation there. And then it's an NOS matchup with the Padres at the Dodgers. No love loss there between San Diego and Los Angeles.

Starting point is 00:28:07 Something to keep in mind. Are the byweeks good for the top seat? teams. The guys who didn't have to play this last round in 2023, the by teams lost three of the four division series matchups. Last year, Baltimore lost to Texas. Atlanta lost to Philadelphia. The Dodgers lost to Arizona. The only one that won was Houston, who beat Minnesota. They're both out already. So something to think about, you know, and it's like that in every sport. When the first round buy for top seeds like in the NFL as well, and you're like, yeah, they're going to be rusty when they come out. and sometimes it happens.

Starting point is 00:28:43 We like our underdogs here at Lockdown Cardinals. So I'm rooting for the Tigers, the Royals and the Padres at this point. My preseason pick, I had the Orioles and Phillies in the World Series. But I've repeatedly said when we got to the playoffs that I was like, Yankees, Phillies would kind of be like the coolest one, I think. But let me know who you're rooting for, if anybody in the playoffs anymore. Your thoughts on the hitting coach situation. Lots going on with the Cardinals and just in Major League.

Starting point is 00:29:11 baseball all together. And once again, I'll be right here along with you the whole way. Thank you for making Lockdown Cardinals, your first listen every day. Be having already. Give me a follow on Twitter, X, at L.O. underscore Cardinals and a Jiddy Sports Radio. Like, subscribe on YouTube, help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. I'm off to see the new Joker movie tonight. I have not heard good things. Ratings have not been great for it, but I'm going to keep an open mind. But a musical? Really? A musical? Is that what we're doing? Anyway, you're the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time.

Starting point is 00:29:41 on lockdown cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Turner Ward Is Out, Could A Former Cardinal Become The New Hitting Coach?

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