Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - What Teams Really Want Arenado?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Another major free agent signs as the Cardinals continue to sit idle and watch. And it got me thinking, does anyone really want Nolan Aronado? This is Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals, I'm J.D. Hafford and I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network covering your team every day. You can follow me on Twitter X at JD Sports Radio.

Starting point is 00:00:36 You can also follow the podcast at L0 underscore Cardinals. I do want to thank those of you who make Locked-on Cardinals your first list. And every day, we are free and available wherever you get your podcast. You can also find us on YouTube, like, subscribe, and hit that notification button so you know when new episodes are posted. This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving the best fans in baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat. So here we are on the 30th of December and the Cardinals have done almost nothing. with their roster so far this off season, it's been pretty darn boring, right?

Starting point is 00:01:07 I'm right here with you. I get it. It's boring. And unfortunately, this is kind of what the Cardinals have set up for us this offseason. Years and years and years and years we've had where we've got to talk about free agents and trades that we're going to benefit the Cardinals. And this year, it all has come to a stop. And there ain't nothing going on.

Starting point is 00:01:27 I mean, seriously, outside of not signing their impending free agents, they haven't made any addition. the roster through free agency. I wonder if there are any other teams who have done less than the Carmel so far this year. But they haven't added anybody. Paul Goldschmidt has moved on, has joined the New York Yankees on that one year deal. Frankly, I'm just glad he didn't sign in the division, to be honest with you, because I was very much nervous that the Brewers or even the Cubs might swoop them up. We haven't heard anything about guys like Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn, or Andrew Kittridge signing anywhere yet. So their markets are still something to keep

Starting point is 00:02:03 an eye on. We have had that threat of a Nolan Aronado trade, but that was snuffed out and has subsided yet again. I was talking with H-Town from Lockedon Astros. If you've ever watched Locked on Astros, he's one of the hosts there. And I asked him what were his thoughts on Nolan Aronado, and then the deal got squashed and what he was feeling about that. And his just outside perspective, because we know how we feel as Cardinal fans and what we think of Nolan Aronado, great guy. We love the intensity that he shows. And, you know, we still believe, I think a lot of us believe that he still got some good baseball left in him. But I wanted his outside thoughts on Nolan Arnado.

Starting point is 00:02:46 And his response was that loves the gloves still, one of the elite third baseman in the league with the glove, but is very much worried about the bat. and the decline and said if the money was right and no one wanted to come to Houston, that he would have been on board with that move, that it wasn't something that he would have been like, oh, no. The reason why I kind of hit him up about this, because when it said that he had turned it down, he had tweeted out maybe dodged a bullet there. But, you know, because I was like, well, do you not like him?

Starting point is 00:03:24 Is there something about Nolan Arnado that you don't think would play well? with Houston. And part of me thinks he was just kind of being polite by saying nice things about him. But it got me thinking, like, who really wants Nolan Aronado right now? Because this has not been Nolan Aronado from two years ago who MVP caliber guy. This is the guy last year who, among qualified third baseman, finished fifth and batting average at 272, but 15th in home runs, 10th and RBIs, 10th and no BP, 11th in slugging. 16th and doubles, 13th and OPS. And I've said it before that if you took away the name,

Starting point is 00:04:06 you know, and I was saying the same stuff about Paul Goldschman, if you take away the name and you just look at the numbers, is that somebody you won on your team as your everyday starter at one of those corner positions? So when you hear all of how low he was in most of those categories, is this someone that you won as your third baseman next year, that you are willing to give up assets to acquire, which is why the whole money thing is such a big deal, because if you're getting him super cheap,

Starting point is 00:04:36 then you feel like, oh, well, you could live with that. And then the possibility that Nolan Aronado hits better next year, you know, you're like, okay, maybe we can, we'll see if he bounces back, but if he's flat lines and stays where he is, we're not getting killed because we're not, you know, overpaying for him. And I'm not trying to, because I can hear how it sounds. in my head. I'm not trying to make Nolan out to be the bad guy here. That's really not my goal.

Starting point is 00:05:02 But the fact that the Cardinals found a team who wanted him were willing to trade for him. They had come to that financial agreement. And whatever else the trade might have involved, whether it was a prospect or two, lower level, whatever, whatever it might have been. And, you know, to have this, is it burden? Is it a problem? Like, what do we call this? because I hate to use those phrases when describing what Nolan Aronado and his contract are. But to have that over with, you know, wipe your hands of it. You're just kind of done with it. You feel good.

Starting point is 00:05:36 Okay, we got it done. We're going to be okay to get all of this off your plate and to just have it squashed and like not come to fruition because no one wasn't ready to accept the trade yet. That sucks. That sucks. you know, they were done. They were done. This was it. This was the big move that was going to clear out enough of the money that they, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:03 are trying to clear from the payroll. And they were ready to move on. And, you know, then they could start tinkering with things. Maybe there's little pieces here and there that they could start messing with to, you bring on to the roster. But this reset is still on hold at the moment because of this. You know, I'm as excited as you are about trying to. to figure out what this team's going to look like in 2025, and we can't do it until something gets

Starting point is 00:06:30 done here or doesn't get done if he has to come back, whatever happens. But the idea, they need to get it done, right? Both sides, they just got to get one done. Okay, it's time to move on. Gorman's going to go to third. You're going to have win. You're going to have Donnie. You're going to have Contreras over at first base. The infield's going to be set. And then you can move your attention on to other things, but we're still stuck. We're about to turn the face. to 2025 and we're stuck. We're stuck. And they also have to figure out if they need to move on to a plan B, whatever that may be, you know, some other way to slash some payroll. The Alex Bragman free agent market has a bit of an update. We'll talk about a little bit later on,

Starting point is 00:07:12 but maybe that will get the ball moving on another Nato trade at some point. But what is plan B? What if this doesn't work? What if no one doesn't go anywhere? If that happens, else do you do? Obviously, you're thinking moving on from pitchers of some sort, right? Right. Halsley appears to be sticking around. Not that his arbitration money is all that much savings, but the last I've seen is that, you know, you had teams like Arizona and you had Toronto, they were kind of checking in, and they got the sense that the Cardinals weren't interested in dealing the NL relief of the year. They're going to hang on to them. The Brewer is trading David Williams of the Yankees eliminated one possible spot.

Starting point is 00:07:53 The Phillies signed a former Blue Jays closer, Jordan Romano. So that's not a thing anymore. So I don't even know, you know, what's left out there that's going to be looking for a closer of Ryan Helsley's capabilities. On the starting pitchers, Stephen Matt's, Eric Fetty, you know, those are some names that you, obviously you might want to move on from Fetty, not so much because he's expensive, but because you can get something decent and return mats would seriously be a salary dump. Like you're trying to move on from his, I think, $11 million is where he's at right now. John Denton says that the guardians have shown a keen interest in trading for Feddy or Matt's for sources.

Starting point is 00:08:33 And the cards would be open to those deals. He also says don't rule out Cal Gibson, who had his $11 million option declined in October, but could be a return candidate because of his ties to the area, the excellent work that he did with the younger pitchers last season. Denton continued saying that the Cardinals' ability to move Michaelis or Mats, who were owed $17.6 million and $12.5.5. So I was wrong at 11. 12.5 for Mats could come down to how much salary they're willing to swallow. Caring dead money is something the cost conscious Cardinals hate doing. And he says stay tuned on these potential deals. It's just a really odd and crappy position to be in right now, you know, trying to slash payroll.

Starting point is 00:09:14 Not because you have to. Not because you're broke. Not because you can't afford it. but because you want to, because you're trying to move on from some of these veteran guys so that you say the younger players can see more action, but the guy who would make this whole situation a whole lot easier, he's got all the power. And Nolan Arnado and has already thwarted one trade that we know of. You know, you were hoping that maybe Wilson Contreras or Sonny Gray would be willing to move on. And they don't want to leave.

Starting point is 00:09:43 They want to stay. Michaelis has shown no interest in leaving from what I've heard. doesn't seem like he's going to go anywhere. So it's just making this whole process of moving on a lot more difficult than we thought. You know, it's kind of like breaking up with somebody, but you still live in the same house and you're stuck there until, you know, the other person finds a new apartment or whatever ends up happening. But you guys are still stuck together hanging out. You don't hate each other, but you don't want to be around each other much anymore either, you know? Meanwhile, you got other teams around the league in the division, making all sorts of moves to improve their teams and their teams and their.

Starting point is 00:10:17 rosters and helping out their teams financially. The Diamondbacks just snagged arguably the top arm that was available on the free agent marketing. Corbyn Burns. We'll talk about him next and what that means for another former cargo. We'll get into that next on Locked on Cardinals. Did Rocket Money help you find any subscriptions that you forgot about or that you were paying for twice?

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Starting point is 00:11:49 Go to RocketMoney.com slash locked on today. That's rocketmoney.com slash locked on. RocketMoney.com slash locked on. Once again, thank you for making Locked on Cartels. Your first listen every day. You can leave comments on YouTube as well as on Twitter X. Anytime you want your feedback is always welcome and encourage. We're going to have a couple of fan feedback episodes coming up here real, real soon because, you know, the Cardinals aren't doing a whole lot. And it's a hell of a lot more fun chit-chatting with you and talking with you and answering questions and stuff and just having some normal conversation with Cardinals fans.

Starting point is 00:12:29 Then it is sitting here going, all right, what are we going to do? What's going on? So other teams are making moves. The Arizona Diamondbacks being one of the teams that has done quite a lot so far this offseason. They made a monster signing this past weekend when they got former Sye Young Winter Corbin Burns on a six-year, $210 million deal, which is the richest deal in franchise history. Reports are that there is an opt-out clause after 2026. We know Corbin Burns quite well in St. Louis, due to his time in Milwaukee. He was awesome again last year, even though he was no longer in the NL Central.

Starting point is 00:13:07 He was out in the ALEs for the Orioles when 15 to 9, 2.92 ERA and 32 starts for the Orioles. and what kind of caught people off guard about this particular deal was not so much the money or anything like that. Apparently he did turn down more money from other places to sign with Arizona. But it was the fact that it was Arizona in the first place, the Diamondbacks, who ended up getting aggressive to get him despite already having a pretty solid group of starting pitchers so far. Burns is going to join former Cardinal prospect, Zach Gallen, former Cardinal, Jordan Montgomery. Unless you got Merrill Kelly, Eduardo Rodriguez, Brandon Fought, and Ryan Nelson in that rotation already. Now, in normal Cardinal years, when they are looking to wheel and deal and add some stuff, which they might at some point, but so far it hasn't happened.

Starting point is 00:13:57 I would say, hey, maybe put a call into the snakes about bringing Monty back to St. Louis. He had quite a nice run with the Cardinals when he was at Bush. So maybe he's somebody we can get for cheap. I don't have to give up a whole lot, but this is not the year to do such things. But not a bad crop of rotation arms that they got in the desert over there. The team has already let Christian Walker go. Jack Peterson, and Randall and Randall Gritchick, another former Cardinal lead via free agency. He had a really good year last year.

Starting point is 00:14:28 So he's somebody that might be a nice bench bat for a team. Cardinals will be interested in it, but throwing it out there. Walker has gone to Houston after the Aronado deal. through. They moved on quite quickly and snagged up Christian Walker and free agency. The Diamondbacks made a trade with the Guardians to get All-Star First Baseman Josh Naylor to replace Christian Walker. Peterson is going to the Rangers. And as I mentioned, Gritchick, as far as I've seen, he's still a free agent out there. But you just see the wheels turning in Arizona who have not always been very big spenders. Not always. Sometimes they fork over some money here and there, but more recently they hadn't been. But they continue to make deals and spend money despite some uncertainty with what's going on in their regional sports network as well, very similar to the Cardinals who have that uncertainty going on. Our guy, Thomas Cobain from Redbirdbrance.com, put out a nice article about it recently about how the Diamondbacks and the Cardinals are in similar situations. Yet, you know, you've got the Cardinals just slashing and going in this different direction while the Diamondbacks are adding and moving forward. forward and trying to compete for a world series, you know, which, you know, that they're going this

Starting point is 00:15:46 way and the Cardinals appear to be heading for a non-competitive year in St. Louis. I mean, it feels like it's going to be floating right around the 500 mark once again. Perhaps there'll be some surprises, you know, maybe some of these guys like Jordan Walker and Nolan Gorman and maybe they, you know, Mason Wendt takes that next step. Contreras can stay healthy and can hit the hell out of the ball as a first baseman. And there are some reasons to think that the Cardinals might be okay, but there's nothing that makes you go, boom, playoff team. There they are.

Starting point is 00:16:15 So, and it's kind of a bummer to see a team that's in a similar situation, doing things differently. And let's just be honest, being more fun, more active, going for it instead of scaling back things. What does this Corvin Burns deal mean for another former Cardinal in starting pitcher Jack Flaherty, who, in my opinion, seems to have been kind of like a, a forgotten man in free agency this year. I realize he doesn't have the pedigree of Corbyn Burns or Max Fried or Blake's now,

Starting point is 00:16:46 but it has seemed oddly quiet considering how well he did last year for the Tigers and then helping the Dodgers win the World Series. Now, rumors out there right now are that Jack could ink deal with San Francisco Giants. That's a team that's been brought up who were in contention for Corbyn Burns. actually some people thought they were the favorites to get burns, but they did not. He's not going to be there. He is going to be in Arizona. The Giants also lost Blake Snell to the Dodgers, which probably didn't sit so well with them.

Starting point is 00:17:17 So why not take a Dodger and bring him over to San Francisco, bring him to the Bay, make him a giant. I saw one prediction for Jack Flaherty five years and $100 million. I don't think that's that bad of a deal. And I know Jack has had the injury history when he's with the Cardinals. But the last couple seasons, pretty darn healthy, just turned 29 in October, went 13 and 7 last year with a 3.17 ERA combined in Detroit and L.A. Other than San Francisco, you know, I've seen the Angels mentioned as a place that he could land. You know, Jack's a West Coast guy for years and years and years.

Starting point is 00:17:53 When he was with the Cardinals, we constantly talked about how, you know, he's just going to want to go to the West Coast one day. He's got to be a Dodger one day, which ended up coming to fruition. But, you know, the angels, if they decide they want to pay, you know, the most, I could see Jack taking a deal with L.A. and stay in California. After losing Burns with the Orioles, have any interest in Jack again, despite things not going so well, pretty bumpy road with Baltimore after the Cardinals traded him there in 2020. ended up, you know, losing his spot in the rotation and it was a non-factor for them down the stretch.

Starting point is 00:18:31 But he looked like a different guy last year. I don't have the analytics or what happened in front of me, but he just looked different. He looked more aggressive. He looked more focused. I don't know what changed about Jack Clarity, but it was good. It was good. Like, again, normal Cardinal year, if we're talking about adding guys, Jack Clarity, somebody I'm thinking about it. five years and a hundred million. That is not bad considering he's 29 years old and seems to be

Starting point is 00:19:00 healthy and has figured some things out. Another name that has been mentioned, or should I say, hasn't been mentioned all that much. Japanese star Roki Sasaki, who is still coming over to the States. Yes, it is still happening. We're still in that big window. The Dodgers reportedly had an in-person meeting with him, making that be a sixth team, I believe, to do an in-person meeting. Mets, Yankees, Cubs, Rangers, and Giants are the other ones that have been confirmed so far. Nothing really since the winter meetings on the Cardinals' interest in him. And I remember when they asked Mo about it, they're like, so which plan? He's like, well, we're going to make our pitch. You know, we just, we'll try. And yeah, didn't seem all too optimistic about that. So I'm not

Starting point is 00:19:47 going to hold my breath at Sasaki as any interest in coming to the Midwest or to the St. Louis But there are some names out there. There are some names out there on the market. Some former Cardinals that, you know, Flaherty, Gibson, Lance Land, we talked about those. Jose Cantana is a guy that I would love to see in a Cardal uniform again. I thought he was outstanding. Again, I would rather have a Jose Cantana that Miles Michael is at this point in our lives. Max Scherzer is still out there.

Starting point is 00:20:21 Justin Burlander, Andrew. Charlie Morton, Michael Lorenzo. These are some of the other names that are still available as this market kind of trickles down now that the Corbin-Burns signing has happened. There's still trade rumors surrounding the Mariners, Luis Castillo, the twins Pablo Lopez, the Padres, Dylan Cese, a guy that I would love to see in a Cardinal uniform at some point. There's still talk about Eric Fetty, you know, I'm still wondering if someone is going to make an effort to take advantage of the fact that Eric Fetty coming off. a very strong year with the White Sox. And I know that he didn't do quite as well as we wanted him to do after the trade, after he got to St. Louis.

Starting point is 00:21:01 But after he settled in, I feel like he was fine. And that was how I felt about the trade at the time. I was like, I mean, he's fine. He's nothing special. But what makes him a little bit special is what you get from him for the price, making $7.5 million this year. That's a bargain for the skill set. that Eric Fetty offers.

Starting point is 00:21:25 So, you know, I wonder if people will have interest in that. Maybe teams didn't believe in the season last year as much as we thought that his turnaround was kind of maybe it wasn't as big a deal as we thought. But I don't know, that's kind of where we're at with the starting pitching. I want to jump over to the offensive side of things. We'll do that next on Locked on Cardinals. Thanks for making a lockdown cartels. Your first listen today for your second listen,

Starting point is 00:21:58 and you can find Lockdown MLB with our special baseball guru, Sully, hosting it, giving you a daily blend of humor in baseball, keeping you updated on all the teams during this offseason, including our Cardinals. You can find Locked on MTV on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. So the big names that are still out there on the free agent market, first baseman, Pete Alonzo, still does not have a home. Third baseman, Alec Bragman still does not have a home.

Starting point is 00:22:22 Outfield-wise, Anthony Santander, still a free agent as well. And according to reports, this is what I hit. on a little bit earlier about Alex Breggman, Alex Breggman, is that the Detroit Tigers are from reports all in. They're, they're all in on trying to bring Breggman to Detroit. They just got Glaber Torres, formerly the Yankees on a one-year deal worth $15 million. From what I've read, the plan is to move Colt Keith to first base. He was playing second base last year. They'll have Torres at second, a platoon of Trace Sweeney and Javi Baez and shortstop, which would leave third baseman open for, for Bregman.

Starting point is 00:23:02 Now, if that falls through, would Detroit put in an offer to try to get Nolan Aronado from the Cardinals? Something to keep an eye on, but just, I don't know, man, just judging off of the way things are going. It doesn't, I cannot picture Nolan Aronado waving the no trade clause to go to the Motor City. It just doesn't seem like that is the place that he would want to be, you know. it seems like he wants to go West Coast. It seems like, you know, obviously he wants to go on a winning team. Detroit surprise season last year did very, very well. Road the arm of ALSai Young Award winner, Terik Scoobel.

Starting point is 00:23:38 But I just, I don't know. I don't know if that's something that he'd be interested in. It just doesn't seem like the fit for me. The more I looked into this and I'm like, oh, my gosh, this Javi Baez contract, my gosh. How bad is that? How bad is that, you know, for the team and their payroll right now. The dude is, he's going to get $25 million this year, $24 and $24 the next two years.

Starting point is 00:24:05 So, like, we're talking $75 million for the next three years. He may not even be a starter, just like a platoon player. I mean, who's trading for that guy? Who's trading for that contract? You know, this is the crap that the Cardinals are trying to avoid, you know? I mean, all teams are. Nobody wants like a bummer contract like that. But it's why the Cardinals want to become elite at developing their own guys.

Starting point is 00:24:30 The free agent crapshoot, it's just too volatile. It just is. And if you are always going to get outbid for the sure thing type of guys by the bigger markets and you're never going to try to compete with them and try to outbid them, and then you're left with the next, you know, tier down of guys who are the not so sure things, more often than not, that leads to. bad contracts, they can handcuff you. You know, another thing I wonder about is what they plan to do with Spencer Torkelson.

Starting point is 00:25:02 Now, he was the number one overall pick just a couple of years ago. Are they tapping out on him already? 31 bombs, 94 reviews in 2023 at the Major League level. Last year, he fizzled out. Had a tough year. I drafted him in fantasy. He was terrible. He was terrible.

Starting point is 00:25:21 Had to spend some time in the minors this year. year still 25 years old, which reminds me a lot of kind of the Nolan Gorman situation. Now, Gorman, not the number one overall pick, but obviously a high pick. And the strikeout numbers are up. He's had to do some time in the minor leagues after finding some success in the majors. You know, Torkelson's under control for three more years. Obviously, he has talent, you know, there else he would not have been selected. Number one overall in the country in 2020.

Starting point is 00:25:51 I'm curious what it would take to pry him away these days as an investment in something. You know, this Contreras thing at first base, just because that's the plan now. Doesn't mean it has to be later. You know, what if Contreras changes his mind later on is like, you know what? I will get traded. I will. Like, wouldn't it be nice to have a first base prospect like a Spencer Tortelson just sitting there, D-Hing or playing some first base?

Starting point is 00:26:14 That would be nice. As far as Alonzo goes, I still think he could end up back with the Mets. It just kind of makes a lot of sense to. me. But I guess the Giants now have him on the radar as well. Now, if the Giants get, you know, Alonzo, they already signed Willie Adomas and they got Jack Flaherty. I mean, would that be so bad? I feel like that's a home run for the for the Giants right there. But Alonzo is running out of options of places to go. Yankees, Diamondbacks, Astros, Guardians, Nationals, they've all added first baseman. Josh Bell reportedly going back to Washington. They got Nathaniel

Starting point is 00:26:47 low. But what does Alonzo want? What would it take to get him to come back? The last thing I read, which is a couple of days ago, though, is that they were pretty far apart. But if I'm P. Alonzo, I am drooling over, hitting behind Juan Soto and Francisco Lador in 2020. Ooh, that would be fun. The Cubs, keeping an eye on people in the division, also made a deal on Sunday. They traded with the Marlins for Utility Man, Vidal Bruhan in exchange for Matt Mervis and cash. Bruhan will be 27 in February. Switch hitter utility guy has played all over the diamond. Shortstop, second, third, center, right, left.

Starting point is 00:27:25 That was all just last year. Made a brief appearance at first base in one game. He even pitched a couple of times. He is not a hitter, not much of a hitter whatsoever, but offers that bench flexibility, which as we know in St. Louis is always quite nice. You've got some guys who can just pretty much play anywhere you need to put him at. That's what makes Brennan Donovan such a bench.

Starting point is 00:27:46 a special person on this roster. Not only is he a pretty good hitter, much better hitter than Vidal Bruhan, but obviously he can play a number of different positions as well, which is why we love him. So that's kind of the updates of what's going on with the Cardinals and around Major League Baseball. Obviously, if there's any more new news,

Starting point is 00:28:06 we will keep you updated. We'll keep you posted as soon as things break. But I appreciate you making a lockdown Cardinals for first list every day. If you haven't already, give us a follow on Twitter X at L0 underscore Cardinals and a JD Sports Radio. Like, subscribe on YouTube, help our channel and our love for the Cardinals grow. If you got any comments you want to throw to us where you have any questions about things that are going on, or just maybe some suggestions for John Moseilac, some things just to make this off season a little more interesting.

Starting point is 00:28:33 Put it in the comments down below or hit us up on Twitter X and that way we can talk about it in a future episode. You guys are the best fans of baseball for a reason. We will see you next time on Lockdown Cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - What Teams Really Want Arenado?

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