Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - What Would It Take To Get Jack Back To The Cardinals?

Starting point is 00:00:00 More trade deadline thoughts and ideas, which include one former Cardinal whose popularity starting to pick up big time. This is Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm J.D. Hafford and I'm a National Radio Sportsaker. Born and raised in the Lou and a Lifetime Cardinals fan. And I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, covering your team, day. You can follow me on Twitter

Starting point is 00:00:36 X at JD Sports Radio. You can follow the podcast at L0 underscore Cardinals. I do want to thank those of you who make Locked on Cardinals your first listen every day. We're free and available wherever you get your podcast. We're also on YouTube. Stop on by, like, subscribe, comment, hit the notification button so you know when new episodes are posted, this is a show

Starting point is 00:00:52 serving Cardinal Nation and giving the best fans in baseball all of the info about the birds on the bat. This episode of Locked on Cardinals is brought to you by booking.com. Booking. Yeah. The right stay can make you a fan of any city. even your rivals. Check out booking.com for your stay today. So the MLB trade deadline is now at the time of this recording, and I know it's a late one. I apologize, but other jobs take precedent at times.

Starting point is 00:01:18 But the MLB trade deadline is now five days away, according to my clock. And so far, not much has been done by anyone with teams still unsure of whether or not they should acquire pieces or tradeaway assets before the July 30th deadline hits. I did see that A.J. Puck went from the Marlins to the Diamondbacks late on Thursday night here. One name, though, that is becoming more and more prevalent among trade rumors is former Cardinal Jack Flaherty, who's now with the Detroit Tigers. You know that by now. The turnaround for Jack this season has been amazing. It really has. And I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I had that much faith in Flaherty going into this season.

Starting point is 00:02:06 I knew he would be motivated. Of course he would be. He wanted to prove the Cardinals and the rest of the league wrong about his value in the league, a motivated player in any sport, someone with a chip right there on the shoulder, with something to prove usually goes out and does well. I mean, how many times do we make the jokes about revenge game? We're playing so-and-so. It's a revenge game.

Starting point is 00:02:31 Look out. And players end up doing well against their former teams. It happens a lot. And that's something that has worked well for Jack this year. Because not only did he want to prove the Cardinals wrong, which when they faced him, what happened? He shoves, right? I'm sure he wanted to prove the Orioles wrong.

Starting point is 00:02:48 I don't think he was angry with either one of these franchises. But obviously, when they don't resign you or they trade you away, you kind of want to prove them like, hey, you screwed up. He screwed up. She didn't let me go. But he wanted to prove the whole league wrong on top of those two teams because after, you know, seemingly not getting many good offers this offseason as a free agent, he ends up with the Tigers. And I don't know what offers he got.

Starting point is 00:03:13 I never saw that, what teams reached out, what their offers were. I'm sure he got other ones. But you don't normally take a one-year deal to play for a team that lost 84 games last season if any better opportunities were available. Maybe some better teams did reach out and had offers, but they just weren't the $14 million that the tigers gave them. I honestly don't know. We never heard, really.

Starting point is 00:03:43 We just heard that he had signed a one-year deal with Detroit. But whatever the reason that he had for accepting that deal, it has worked out beautifully for Jack Flaherty. He bet on himself, and it looks like he's probably going to cash in. He's not one of the most in-demand trade assets at this year's trade deadline. Ken Rosenthal and Katie Wu did a piece at the athletic today, actually, talking about Jack Flaherty and where he could end up after the deadline goes down. I'll put the link in the description.

Starting point is 00:04:17 One of those teams that they have him going to and being very interested in him is one of his former teams, not the Cardinals, but the Baltimore Orioles. They point out that last year they weren't surprised at his struggles after coming over in the trade with the Cardinals due to the amount of innings that he had thrown already that season and that it was the first full season back from all of those injuries that had plagued him for a couple of years. Jack is going to be a rental again. He'll be a free agent when the season is over. But this time around, he's got a much better resume to show teams who were interested in trading for him and signing him. last year with the Cardinals, 7 and 6, 4.43 ERA, ERA plus of 99 before he got moved to Baltimore.

Starting point is 00:05:01 So a very kind of middle of the road average type of pitcher. With Baltimore, he was even worse, 1 in 3, 6.75 ERA, ERA plus of 61. But then this year in Detroit, reborn, 7 and 5, but we know how records are whatever. You don't really pay attention to those quite as much anymore. but the ERA 2.95, ERA plus of 142. His strikeouts per nine are at a career high of 11.2.

Starting point is 00:05:31 Opponents are hitting just 2.11 against them. And I've said previously that I didn't think the Cardinals would try to rekindle their relationship with Flaity simply because we've been there, we've done that. And it felt like it was just that point in the relationship that both parties needed to just kind of move on and do their own thing. And it's worked well for both. I mean, Flaherty has found all the success in Detroit, which is great. Nobody, nobody's wishing ill will against Jack Flaherty. So he finds that in Detroit, the Cardinals move on. And instead of trying to sign Jack Flaherty, they bring in Sunny Gray,

Starting point is 00:06:08 Kyle Gibson, and Lance Lynn. So Sunny Gray and Kyle Gibson signings have been really good, right? Lance Lynn hasn't been as bad as I thought he was going to be. and some people speculated that Flaherty might not welcome a return to St. Louis. Because this is something that, you know, with they're not being that many options, I mean, just because Jack Flaherty used to be here doesn't mean you should just cross them off a list. I think it was a mistake on my part to think that way. And I'm starting to open up to the idea that, I mean, you got to look at everybody.

Starting point is 00:06:42 You can't hold grudges. You can't think about what happened in the past. You got to got to see what that guy is. right there in front of you now. And right now he's a pretty darn good picture. But like I said, some people were speculating that maybe Jack wouldn't want to come to St. Louis, even if the team did have interest in him. And apparently that's not true, at least according to the social media activity that we've seen from Jack Flaherty.

Starting point is 00:07:06 BK from 101 ESPN had a poll up about trading prospect Thomas to Jacey for Flaherty. It was a couple of days ago that he put it up there. And in the responses to the poll, which favored, bring. him back, by the way, which was kind of nice to see from the Cardinal fans, 35.9% of the vote said, yeah, bring it back. One person wrote that Jack wouldn't want to come back, that he was done with St. Louis. And in response to that person's comment, someone else said, Jack never said that he didn't want to be here

Starting point is 00:07:37 and that the narrative that he wanted to leave and had a bad attitude was false. And guess who clicked the like button on that particular statement? You guessed it. Jack Flair did. Now, Josh Jacobs at RedbirdRants.com, friend of the show, even proposed some deals in case the Cardals did decide to kick the tires on bringing Jack Flaherty back. And as much as like a week or two I was, ago I was opposed to it, maybe it's something that they should really look into considering who the pitcher is that Jack Flaherty is right now.

Starting point is 00:08:14 Like don't think about injured 2021 or, 2022. Don't think about that. Think about who he is right now. Look what he's done this year. Of course the Cardinal should bring somebody like that in, right? And he's familiar with things around St. Louis. So is it really that such a bad idea? Is it really that outlandish to think about it? I don't think so. So we're going to take a look at these deals that Josh has proposed. And we'll do that next. We got three of them for it. So we'll knock them out next for you on lockdown cardness. Order supplies from the website that's made for the skilled trades.

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Starting point is 00:12:11 Something that I don't think a lot of us thought we'd ever say. How do we get Jack back? You saw the overall numbers this season. I've already broke those down for you. other things that are great. Expiring contract, he's still relatively young, is almost certain to test the free agent market again and probably cash in on a multi-year deal this time around.

Starting point is 00:12:32 He's a rental, and some of that makes him a little more expensive, and then there's other pieces of that that make him less expensive. So the fact that there isn't any remaining control years after this makes him cheaper. His numbers and his age makes him. a little more expensive. But he's a rental. So he's going to be traded and probably, I would say it's probably going to be cheaper than you really think. I don't think it's going to be super cheap. Like you're not just going to be able to grab him for nothing, a couple of A ball pitchers

Starting point is 00:13:06 or something. So you're going to have to give something up. Not to be fair, Flaherty has been really, really, really, really good over the last couple of months. So since May 30th, when he pitched, he was at Boston then. Since then, Jack Flaherty, has made eight starts had a little back issue in there but from all accounts seems to be fine but eight starts six and one era of 1.77 since may 30th opponents are hitting 161 against them he struck out 52 hitters over 45 and two-thirds innings at one point he had thrown 16 and two-thirds consecutive shutout innings against boston texas and houston some pretty good lineups had a tough outing against the angels which uh bumped his stats up a little bit like in a bad way

Starting point is 00:13:50 but also held the first place Cardians to just two runs over 12. He's been ridiculously good. It's the closest he's been to the Jack Flaherty that we saw when he first came up when people were like, this is your future number one ace for years and years and years to come. So Josh Jacobs again at Redbirdrance.com decided to put some proposals for the reinvigorated Jack Flaherty. And you can tell me which one you would pull the trigger on in the common section. down below our Twitter X. So first one he gets into here.

Starting point is 00:14:24 Number one, Cardinals get Jack Flaherty. The Tigers in return would get left-handed pitcher Cooper Jerpy, which is your seventh-ranked prospect in the Cardinal system. Catcher Leonardo Bernal, eighth-ranked prospect, and infielder Cesar Prieto, your 18th ranked prospect. So what do we think about that? Now, Josh points out that, yeah, this deal, and any of them that he brings up,

Starting point is 00:14:50 They're going to hurt a little bit. You're going to have to give up some things that you don't want to so you can get things that you need. And he also points out something that I've been saying all along is that the Cardinals are going to have to try to outbid the competition because there's so many teams who are going to be in on this. Ken Rosenthal just put out something tonight saying the Texas Rangers, they are not selling. They are in. They're going to try to win. They're going to try to make the playoffs. So you can cross Nathan Evaldi off the list.

Starting point is 00:15:20 you can cross Max Scherzer off the list. David Robertson, any of the, any at Kirby Yates, all of them. They're not going anywhere. The Rangers are going to try to acquire people. They're not selling. So that's a big deal. That brings the pool of people who were available. It shrinks it, makes it even smaller.

Starting point is 00:15:38 As far as this trade goes, I'd certainly hate to lose Cooper Jerpy. He's awkward and left-handed. It reminds me a lot of Chris Sale. And you see what Chris Sale has done in his career when he's, healthy, having a hell of a season for the Atlanta Braves right now. But the other two, I believe the Cardinals have the depth at those positions to kind of take the sting off of losing jerpy a little bit. They've got catchers. Prieto, he's a good prospect, but he's not great by any means, according to the people who scout these guys. Having a good year at AAA, but

Starting point is 00:16:13 you can survive that and not feel like he just got crushed. The second deal, Cardinals get Flaherty and outfielder Markana. Tigers get infielder Thomas Adjacy, which is your number four prospect for the Cardinals. They also get right-hand and pitcher Taka-Roea-Robi, your number five prospect, and left-hand pitcher, Zach Thompson. Now, the idea

Starting point is 00:16:33 of killing two birds with one stone is something that I'm very much interested in for the Cardinals. Very intriguing because we pointed out they have three real needs. Somebody you can hit left-hand and pitching, starter relievers, right? And if you can get

Starting point is 00:16:49 Two of those in one deal. Awesome. If you can pull off the trifecta, God bless you, John. Most eight lot, go for it. But Kiana is a right-handed hitter who hits left-handed pitching quite well. He's hitting 294 with an OPS of 880 against lefties this year. That's something the Cardinals could use. The guy that stings the most for me that you're sitting back to the Tigers in this one would be Toccoir-Robi.

Starting point is 00:17:13 I think C.J.C. is great. And I love C. Doesn't wear batting gloves. Was your AA MVP last year? but you've got Gorman, Wend, Edmund, Donovan, so J.C. Prieto for mean, and now first rounder, JJ Weatherholt,

Starting point is 00:17:29 who can play the infield. Got a lot of guys there. Using someone from that depth to go get things you need makes sense. Pitching depth in the organization on the other side is not quite so deep. And giving up to Coarobi, it might sting a little bit.

Starting point is 00:17:50 Now he hasn't had a great year. He's dealing with injuries again. So is it something that you're like, is he untouchable? No, of course not. But, you know, giving up one of your top five prospects and one of them being a pitcher,

Starting point is 00:18:05 it's not the easiest thing to let go, right? And then as far as adding Thompson, Zach Thompson in there, former first rounder who's had success at the major league level in the bullpen and as a starting pitcher, but is currently banished in Memphis. He's actually on the IL right now with back spasms. I don't know what the Cardinals want to do with them.

Starting point is 00:18:27 Like it's been, and I've used this phrase over and over when describing what they've done with Zach Thompson. It's this yo-yo effect where he's in the bullpen, and then he's a starter, and then he's up with the big club, and then he's down with Memphis. Like, they have no idea what they want to do with this guy. No clue whatsoever. So using him to go get something that you know what you want to do with a certain player makes sense.

Starting point is 00:18:55 Because I feel bad for Zach Thompson, because there's times where I'm like, he looks brilliant. Quit messing with him. And then they do something else. So I don't know, very frustrating. It's got to be super frustrating for Zach Thompson. I'm going to give you Josh's third and final trade proposal next. So we'll hit that up on Lockdown Cardinals, so don't move. This episode of Locks on Cardinals is brought to you by booking.com.

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Starting point is 00:21:46 pick more pick less it's that easy with price picks locked on has launched the first ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel on YouTube it's now also available on amazon fire TV and the free fire TV channels app it gives you the top sports stories of the day it gives you the local experts of locked on plus our national shows that cover every league and you can find it now available on the free fire TV channels app all right your last trade proposal from our buddy josh jacobs at redbird rants dot com again we'll love I'll put the link in the description down here in case you want to read everything

Starting point is 00:22:25 that Josh has to say about these. But his final one is the Cardinals getting Jack Flaherty. And in return, they give up catcher Yvonne Herrera. Now, Herrera has had an interesting season. Started the year. He was the backup to Wilson Contreras, right? Gets thrust into the starting role when Willie goes down with an arm injury. Now, the bat was good.

Starting point is 00:22:54 he appears like he'll be a very successful major league hitter. Cardinals are looking for a right-handed bat to hit lefties. And Herrera is somebody that maybe he's the guy, him and Jordan Walker. They might be guys that are already in your 40-man roster. They can fill that need for you. But he was a good major league hitter. He was 279, three home runs, 19 RBIs in the 54 games. I mean, he was batting cleanup for the Cardinals for a little.

Starting point is 00:23:24 little bit there. But the play behind the plate, particularly his inability to throw out runners attempting to steal, it became an issue. He threw out just three of 44 stolen base attempts. Three of 44. That is a 7% caught stealing percentage. It's really bad. Now they may not all be his fault because sometimes these guys get jumps off the pitchers. who aren't paying attention, not holding them on tight enough. And obviously they've made rules now to make stealing bases a little bit easier. Bases are bigger, can't throw over as much. 7% is still really, really bad.

Starting point is 00:24:08 That's an alarming rate. Pedro Pahas then stepped in as his backup. And after seeing them both play for a little while, seemed to not only handle the pitchers better, call a better game. It was a better framer. But the ringrunner's out. He's better.

Starting point is 00:24:31 Has thrown out 8 of 33 would be Steelers. That's 24% caught stealing rate. Much more acceptable. Still not great. We're still not going. We're not talking Yaddy or Malo Lina range. But better, 24 compared to 7, is a lot better. And then you had Herrera go down with the back tightness.

Starting point is 00:24:52 Remember that? He goes down with the back tightness, and it was right before Wilson Contreras was getting activated from his arm injury, and they didn't want to put Pedro Pahas down. So they were just like, yeah, back tightness. But you back tightness. Yvonne, go go to the side for a little bit. And Pedro Pazes has taken full advantage and has assumed the job behind Contreras. Herrera is back. He's healthy, and he's hitting 281 with two home runs and seven RBI since returning on the 4th of July with Triploid Memphis.

Starting point is 00:25:20 the Cardinals have other catching prospects in the system. Leonardo Bernal, who we brought up earlier. Jimmy Crooks is another one. Again, you're dealing from an area where you feel like you've got some debt. Is Yvonne Herrera untouchable? Should he be? I mean, you still got Contreras for three more years after this. You like what Pahas is doing?

Starting point is 00:25:50 If you have any faith in what Bernal and Crooks are doing, and Herrera can get you somebody like Jack Flaherty, the type of pitcher he is right now. I mean, do you pass that up? But which one do you guys like the most? Out of those three deals, what do you like the most? Let me know in the comments section, perhaps, you know, some of these types of deals

Starting point is 00:26:13 or packages you might use to go fetch other combos that are out there. Because I like the Flaherty-Cana combo trade. I like it, you know, I mean, they need to take care of all of these issues. And to get two of them done would be great. So, you know, could you do an Eric Fetty and a Tommy fan with the White Sox or Tyler Anderson and Kevin Pilar with the Angels? Can you mix up the combo go start a reliever or bat reliever? You can do that too. A lot of ways to go about it, but, you know, we're just kind of stuck here at the moment, you know, waiting for the first shots to be fired, so to speak, to get things moving.

Starting point is 00:26:54 Again, you saw Puck get traded from the Marlins to the Diamondbacks. It's not a huge trade by any mean, but it's something. And presumably we'll see more of these dominoes begin to fall as we get closer to the deadline. We're going to talk more about trade ideas and stuff in our next episode on Friday. Thomas Govain from Redbirdbrance.com is going to join us. And we've got a lot to get through. He's got a lot on his mind. I'm excited to talk to him about it.

Starting point is 00:27:20 So we'll have that for you. We'll get his input on possible deals and thoughts on the car. Cardinals moving forward on Friday. Thank you for making Lockdown Cardinals your first listen every day. If you haven't already, please give us a follow on Twitter X at L0 underscore Cardinals and at JD Sports Radio. Like, subscribe on YouTube, help our channel and our love for the Cardinals grow. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason, and I will see you next time on Lockdown

Starting point is 00:27:41 Cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - What Would It Take To Get Jack Back To The Cardinals?

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