Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Who Stays And Who Goes?

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Thomas Gauvain from RedbirdRants.com joins us! - Roddery Munoz Addition - Time To Vote! - Nolan Arenado's Future - Willson Contreras' Role - Sonny Gray's Contract - Ryan Helsley's Trade Potential - Lars Nootbaar and Eric Fedde - Nolan Gorman Trade Proposal Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms… 🎧 https://link.chtbl.com/LOSTLCardinals?sid=YouTube Locked On MLB League-Wide: Every Team, Prospects & More 🎧 https://linktr.ee/LockedOnMLB Follow on Twitter/X: @JDSPORTSRADIO Follow the show on Twitter/X: @LO_Cardinals Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! HIMS Hims is changing men's healthcare by providing access to affordable sexual health treatments, all from the comfort of your home. Start your free online visit today at Hims.com/LOCKEDON for your personalized ED treatment options. Ibotta Download the FREE Ibotta app now and use code LOCKEDONMLB to get 100% cash back on your Thanksgiving feast starting November first! Robinhood Robinhood Gold provides the privileges of a high net worth for any net worth. These generous benefits are now available for only $5/month. The new gold standard is here with Robinhood Gold. Sign up at ROBINHOOD.com/GOLD Gametime Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONMLB for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime. FanDuel You can start the season with a big return on FanDuel. New customers can place a FIVE DOLLAR bet and you’ll get started with ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS - if you win your first FIVE DOLLAR BET ! Visit FANDUEL.COM to get started. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) #ForTheLou #stlcards #mlb #lockedoncardinals Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's election day. So we are going to be heading to the polls ourselves and voting on who stays and who goes for the St. Louis Cardinals in 2025. You are locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm J.D. Hafer and I'm a national radio sports anchor. Born and raised in the Lou and a lifetime Cardinals fan. And I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network covering your team. every day. Follow me on Twitter X and Jadis Sports Radio, the podcast. You can also follow that at Ella underscore Cardinals. We want to thank those of you who make Lockstone Cardinals for first listen to every day. We are free and available wherever you get your podcast. We're also on YouTube. We're making the push for 11,000 subscribers. So if you haven't done that yet, if you haven't liked

and subscribe, make sure you do that and help our channel grow and hit that notification button so you know when the new episodes are posted. This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving the best fans in baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode is brought to by Fandul. You can start the season with a big return on Fandul. New customers can place a $5 bet, and you'll get started with $150 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet. This fandle.com to get started.

Welcoming in Thomas Govain from Redbird Rance.com on this election day, Thomas. How are you, buddy? Feeling good, feeling strong? Oh, yeah, I feel pretty good. All right, good. I want to personally encourage everybody to go out in vote today. If you do have the means and you do have time, go on out there. It's very important to the country, that your voice be heard.

We're going to do some voting here today, Thomas. I hope you're ready for it because we've got some changes going on with the Cardinals. I don't know if you've noticed what's going on, but there is going to be a very weird off season for this team because everything's different than what you and I have grown up with when it comes to the St. Louis Carlin. Cardinals, usually this point of the year, we're talking about, ooh, who are they going to spend all their money on this year? What free agent is going to come in and, you know, help us move on to win another World Series. Like, what are we going to add? This is exciting. And instead, we're talking about who they might be getting rid of. And it all appears that they're going to get rid of a lot of guys. They did make an addition. Before we get to the voting and who we want to keep, who do we want to get rid of? They did make one addition because they got some open spots on that 40-man roster,

and they were able to claim 24-year-old right-hand Rotary Munoz from the Miami Marlins. You know, we've been seeing a lot of Marlins people, a lot of Marlins flavor coming back to the Cardinals. Obviously, John Jay got to see him up close. Brant Brown was probably familiar with him since he was in the organization. Probably called their old buddy Skip Schumacher. I haven't got any confirmation on that, but they probably called him to get his thoughts on what they thought about this guy. But the numbers aren't great, Thomas.

You look at him, 2 and 7, 6.53 ERA. Struck out 70 and 82 and 2 thirds innings. He also allowed 42 walks, 26 home runs. Not a lot. Just looking at those numbers, get you all that excited about this kid. But what are your thoughts on Rotary Munoz and adding him to the 40-man roster?

Yeah, his fastball is pretty live. And I think that's his calling card. He has time as a starter, although I don't know if that's quite the most beneficial for him. To be honest, I don't have any details about him. A lot of strikeouts, it seems, in the minors, he allowed less than a home run for nine inning. So I don't know if the home runs of the majors were he just wasn't ready. He was overmatched for if it was truly an issue that he didn't have in the minors. I don't know.

There was as many young guys as we can with the problem and see what sticks, I think is the key here. It was something that kind of worked for them when it was, you know, putting that bullpen together this year for the Cardinals where they just went on and got a bunch of arms and we're like, look, we're going to take our shot with some of these dudes. And hopefully we can work them to where they're, you know, major league players. And it's weird to be like looking up his past that I didn't realize how many organizations he'd already been with Braves, nationals, pirates, Barlins. Now he's with the Cardinals. Again, just 24 years old. You mentioned he's had some success at the minor league level. His strikeouts per nine were over.

10 at every level until he got to AAA. And then, of course, the major leagues where they dipped a little bit. But 24-year-old pitchers with a guy who throws 95, 96 with some decent movement. As I mentioned in yesterday's episode, you know, it's a nice little project for the Cardinals. And, you know, maybe they can unlock something. It doesn't mean, you know, they had some success with Ryan Fernandez this year. It's not like Dusty Blake who's completely incompetent. I know people still have bad vibes from that first year with the team. But last year, the pitching staff wasn't really the problem. So maybe they could do something there.

So an addition, doesn't cost him much. And like you mentioned, he made starts or whatever. But maybe he's a bullpen arm that they turn into that and he could be more useful in that role instead. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see how they employ him, whether they commit to a reliever and let it rip for an inning at time or try starter out as well. Yeah. He's cheap. He's young. Yeah, well, we'll see.

We'll see what he's got. And it's not obviously a move that's going to, you know, move the needles very much for Cardinals fans. But just a name to keep an eye on. So let's talk about the big names that unfortunately, it seems like the direction the Cardinals are going into, despite shedding so much payroll already. They've declined the options on Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn, Keenan Middleton. Their exercise are $1 million buyouts. on those guys. Paul Goldsmith's obviously gone. Andrew Kittredge is probably gone. I'm going to miss him. Matt Carpenter, also a free agent, somebody that, you know, they may bring him back in the fold.

But according to the, you know, the reporting is that that's about 50 million off the payroll already, which is a massive chunk. Yet it's probably not going to stop there. It appears that they're going to try to move on some from some of these other veteran players that are on this team already with substantial contract. So what we're going to do here today is we are going to be voting on whether or not we want to keep them or do we want to trade them. We're going to look at all the angles. We'll look at the money. We'll look at the stats. Got to look at the prospects behind them and make a decision on where we want to go with this Cardinals roster into 2025. So we're going to start doing that next. Voting time coming up on Locked on Cardinals. Guys, do you ever feel like you need a little boost in the

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Thomas Covein from Redbird Rance.com. You can find him on Twitter X as well. He's always ready to chat and talk with all of the fans, you know, whether you're happy, whether you're sad, which is the way a lot of Cardinal fans feel right now. I know that people are excited about them finally picking a direction.

At the same time, this isn't the fun direction that most franchises want to go into, especially one as esteemed as the Cardinals. And, you know, like I mentioned earlier, Like this is something we're not really used to, Thomas. No, for the organization with how successful they've been, especially these last two decades, it's weird to see selling and big-name players going away from the team rather than coming in. It's not as exciting, but then you look at the young guys below them and gives a little bit of refreshment to it, though, at least.

Yeah, I saw that you did a piece at Redbird Rants.com and talking about the power rankings and the Cardinals. I think it was 24, which that's a little scary. Because that puts you at the bottom of the barrel, really, with a lot of teams. And I feel like the Cardinals are better than that's below everybody in the division. Even the pirates, bro. Is this real life? Is this really where we're at?

Or do you think that's kind of maybe not a great ranking? It feels a little bit low, but close enough to the rain. Like in that 20 to 22 range feels right for us. But then look at the teams ahead. the Giants and the Blue Jays are right above us and they're both better than we are. And the other teams below and we're definitely better. I think there's a big jump from 24 to 25. The nationals are right after us and they're close,

but I'd say we're closer to the Giants than we are the nationals, at least if that makes sense. And we don't know what this roster's going to look like yet. I mean, at this moment, they've still got all of these guys. You know, no one Aronado and Wilson Contreras and Sunny Gray. But some people are probably going to go. And today we're going to vote on whether or not we, as fans, feel like these guys should go or they should stick around with them. So we're going to start with, I'm going to go with somebody who feels like it's going to be a little more painful to watch him go.

And that would be Nolan Aronado. Now Aronado, we know he didn't have a great year. 272, 16 home runs, 71 RBI is the OPS Plus of 101, a far cry from his career. numbers and averages. The defense, not great in the first half, way better in the second half. Obviously, being a finalist for the gold glove tells you that he could still pick it over at third base just fine. And I don't know what happened, what it was in the second half that got him better. I don't know if there was something. I always wonder if there's a moment because you would see moments last year where Arnaato all of a sudden would look like himself at the plate and at

third base. I'm like, is he getting a shot or something? Is there something that they're giving him that's making whatever pain bothers him go away for a little bit. And they never say that that's something that they did. But I always wonder if that's what went down. But your thoughts on Nolan Aronado, obviously a lot of money still attached to him. So what do you think the Cardinals should do? Is it time to move on or is this a guy that we should be keeping? I think there's mutual interest from both Aronado and the Cardinals to move on from each other.

The challenging part is there's no trade clause and his price. I would bet that he is traded. However, the return that we get may not be as nice as fans would want for a guy like him. And this is something that we were texting earlier and I was like, what do you think that, like if they do trade a bunch of these guys, what kind of return are we looking for here? And you didn't give me the greatest answer.

But you can go ahead. Tell everybody what you told me. I don't know. On the low end, it's probably a low-a prospect who has potential. I think it's also possible that depending on how much money we ship with him, we could get an major league guy with three years of control that fits better in our window. Isn't that crazy to think, though, as a fan of it, like, oh, okay, yeah, let's trade, you know, All-Star, former All-Stars, Sunny Gray, guy was just second in the side of the young.

But we're going to get A-ball players in return. Like, oh, my God. Like, that is frightening to me. That is frightening to me, Thomas. Like, Halloween's over. Don't scare me like that. I hope it turns a little bit better than that. But it's something, here's the thing, though.

It's something that I think you're right. Like, fans should be prepared to not expect, like, a top prospect from each organization coming over to the Cardinals because we're getting rid of these guys because that's probably not going to happen whatsoever. So it is smart to prepare these guys because I think a lot of people have in their heads. They think, you know, we're trading Nolan Aronados. We're going to get probably what, like their best hitter and best pitcher and their, in their organization.

That is not going to be the case. whatsoever. Like you said, what money changes hands is obviously something that is going to be important in these deals as well. But as the GM, you're voting to trade Nolan Aronado. Is that where you're going with this? Yeah, I'd say trade. I think it makes sense too with the money he's making. And the numbers don't lie, the decline that you're seeing of him. And like, just like you saw with Paul Goldschman, man, it's starting to go in the wrong direction. And maybe it picks up if he goes to a better offense and ballpark. You know, we saw maybe the Houston Astros would be somebody that was interested in maybe getting Arnato if Bregman doesn't resign with Houston.

And I was like, gosh, you know he's going to hit 30 bombs with Houston with Crawford boxes in left field. Like that is like the perfect ballpark for him and his swing. So if he does get moved and ends up having a bounce back year, it wouldn't shock me if he got out of St. Louis and was in a better ballpark. for his particular hitting stance and the way he swings and stuff. It would make a lot of sense. So, but yeah, if he's willing to go and you can move on from this,

here's a question for you. If he does move on, they trade Nolan Aronado, who's your first pick to fill in at third base? Because that's something that I thought about yesterday. I mean, Gorman obviously is something you think about, what about Brennan Donovan? You know, a year removed from the elbow surgery,

which was something that they worried about last year, which is why they kept them and left and second base more than anywhere else. What about Brennan Donovan over at third base? Would that be all right? Yeah, I think Gould even mentioned him as an option at third base if Arnottos traded. But it probably depends on who they prefer at second more than eight. Gorman versus they could both play of Gorman and Donovan. They're both left-handed two different profiles offensively, but it's probably whoever's better at either defensive position. Yeah. I mean, they both make sense over there. Obviously, where are we putting Thomas to Jacey?

I don't feel like you want to keep him. Super as a bench bat. You know, I don't feel like that's where you want to do with this guy. But I don't know. We'll see. It's very interesting to talk about where they're going to move some of these. Because it's one thing that the cartels do have some versatility as far as where certain people can play. It's not like they're all just stuck in one position.

How else people have brought up when I move Jordan Walker back to third. I'm like, I don't know if we want to redo that yet. But just something to say. All right. let's move on to Wilson Contreras, shall we? Wilson Contreras, kind of an incomplete season, right, because of the injuries. 262, 15 home runs, just 366 RBIs, which is hilarious to me that he knocked himself in 15 times outside of that.

He only had 21 rbis in half a season. OBS plus though, 136. Obviously, he can still swing the bat. What's your vote? Are you keeping Willie or are you trading Wilson Contreras? You kind of keep him. He's the heart and soul the team with Lars Nupar. He's got a lot of potential still.

He's improving behind the plate. I think you got to keep him. Now, I'm going to make this argument with you of why trading him would make sense and then see if it alters your view at all. You also got to remember you've got an Ivan Herrera, Pedro Pahas, and Jimmy Crooks coming up. So you've got some depth that to catch your position. Does that lean you in a different direction or are you still keeping him? Because I'm with you.

I love the dude. And I don't think money he's making because it's not Aronado money. It's not crazy money. He's a guy that I feel like he should stick around and I do want to keep him. But I can see why the idea of trading him would make sense. Yeah, I see the point there. He's got a lot of value still. He's not too expensive.

And we have other catchers. I don't know because I love the other guy too. I think Herrera makes more sense as a trade candidate than Contreras does. But you could go other way, honestly. would you rather trade Herrera or Contreras? I don't want to trade either one of them, to be honest with you. I want to hang on to them. I want to see one of them work out of first base and see if they could do anything over there as well.

I think if I don't do that, one of them's got to be traded, though, one of our catchers is we traded. Yeah, because you just got so many and you're not going to do the three catcher thing again. You're not going to make Contreras just a DH. Like you're still going to use them. So, yeah, that's why it's kind of like. like, uh-oh, we got too many catchers in the in the house there. So what do we do with them all? And I haven't seen whether or not in winter ball,

whether Herrera's even played yet. I haven't checked it out. But he is on Pooholl's team, I believe. So I wonder if he's going to work him out of first base at all. I haven't even seen that yet. But that'd be something if, if he started to do that. Because, man, his badge sure looked pretty good to me.

And that would be a solid bench bat when somebody else is catching to have Yvonne Herrera still on your bench. Yeah. Let's move on to pitchers. Let's go Sunny Gray, 13 and 9, 3.84 ERA, ERA plus of 109, which was one of his lowest, actually, even though it's a pretty good season. ERA plus before that, 157 the year before with the twins,

12, 12, 133, 162. Like, he's had some pretty good years. I still think he's a pretty good pitcher. I didn't see all that much that was wrong with Sunny. Obviously, giving up more home runs this year. There's not something you want to see. But I liked him, but this is more of a money thing than anything because his money is going to escalate big time the next two years.

And everybody wants pitching. And so it would seem that he would be a popular guy on, you know, for people who are looking to trade, you know, on the trade front there. Like if somebody's trying to find a number two or even a number three for their rotation become more dominant, one of these big market teams, like, the Dodgers or something like that, they would be interested. The problem is no trade clause and he wanted to stay in the Midwest, which is why he was with the Cardinals in the first place.

So what are your thoughts on Sunny Gray? Do you want to keep them or do you want to trade him? What's your vote? I want to keep him. And I think he wants to stay too. I could see him being like kind of the father of the rotation for the next two years. We'll have a lot of young guys coming up. And he's an excellent leader.

He was an excellent pitcher throughout his career. So I could see him guiding this next like the McGreevy, Grisopho, Quinn Matthews, Tink Hens, leading those guys through the last year of those contract. He gets expensive, and he is in their trade clause. I think that complicates things from a trade sense. And really the only team I could see him wanting to go to would be the Braves. They have been clearing out payroll space, so either free agent or trade. So they might be interested in a deal like that.

But I hope he stays just to leave the rotation these next two years. We need a veteran in there with all the young guys, and he'd be a good fit. Oh, you know what I'm learning from Miles Michaelis or Stephen Matt? Is that what you're trying to tell me? No. Please, no. I don't want more meatballs thrown over the plate. I'd like something with some movement at least.

What you do here is you slow everything down and you throw a 72 mile an hour curveball. That's how you get up. Backyard wiffle balls all everywhere. Yeah, I, I'm the same boat, man. I want to keep them. The Braves make a ton of sense. I've got friends in Cincinnati who are like, Yeah, I think the Reds want to try to get him.

I'm like, I'm not trading him to you. I'm sorry. I'm not making any of these indivision trades that's helping you guys out while we're trying to move on from payroll. So the Braves, as you mentioned, they've moved on from a lot of people. You know, Charlie Morton, Max Fried is a free agent. It appears they're going to let him walk. They don't want to really lock him up to a long-term deal.

So somebody like Sunny Gray, two years, they can obviously afford him. And they got an option for that third year as well. of so I feel like if the Braves are interested that there could be something done there, you know, it'll just cost Ronald Acuna, something like that. We'll get him in return, right? Yeah, right. Why not? No big deal.

He's hurt. Let's, yeah. It's easy, easy. Let's go to Ryan Helsley, which this one's going to sting, but I'm going to vote. I'm just going to start his off. I'm voting to trade him right now. That's how I felt since. nothing against Ryan Helsley.

A massive year, obviously, 7 and 4, 204, ERA, 49 saves, a record for the Cardinals. But arbitration, money's going to go up, and then he's going to be a free agent. You know, he's not going to sign some extension. And you see the money that some of these closers are making now, and there is no way in hell. I am paying Ryan Helsley. Great year. I get it.

But he's had arm trouble, injury. issues throughout his career has the one big year i'm not banking on that happening all the time and i'm moving on from him what's your vote yeah i think the slogan is like death taxes and relievers falling apart isn't that how it goes like that yeah we got to trade him down all his value is where it is uh it's it's ridiculously high he's a top three closer you can't hold on to him if we're not contending and i don't even think it makes sense to hold them to the trade deadline that's even less control for a team that might be looking for open stability at the off seasons when you have to trade him it stinks he's wonderful he is a pitcher

that we brought up through our system something that we've been needing the timing is just off because when we needed him to be good we as a team are not good so you have to trade him get whatever he can yeah i mean you're talking about him and class A from the guardians uh as the one and two top relievers in the league like i mean we've had a lot of good relievers out there and those are the guys that are shining right now. So, you know, if somebody wants to give me a bag for Ryan Helsley, and then they get to deal with his price going up and the injury issues that he's dealt with by all meets, you guys can have yourselves Ryan Helsley and the hells bells will ring for you.

But it feels like it's time to move on if you're the Cardinals when it comes to him. All right. We're going to talk more about who stays who goes and makes our votes next on Locked on Cardinals. Get ready to tackle the NFL action with Fandul. America's number one sports book because right now new customers can bet $5 and get $150 in bonus bets if you win. The Fandall Sportsbook app, it gives you everything that you need to place live bets on the NFL and it's all in one place. One of the things I hate about apps is that sometimes you can't maneuver it the way you want to. You're trying to find ways to get to a certain part to make a certain wager and it becomes a pain of the butt, right?

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Never waste a hunch and make every moment more with Fandle, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. Thank you for making Locked on Cardinals. Your first listen today for your second listen. Make sure you find Locked on MLB. Baseball guru Sully is going to bring you a daily blend of humor and baseball, keeping you updated on all the teams during this offseason, even the ones that are doing things a little different,

like the Cardinals this year, shedding some payroll. But of course, you've got other teams and bigger markets who are looking to make major additions. We've heard of, you know, the Yankees are, you know, and the Garrett Cole. And what are they got to do with one? So all of that stuff. Solie's going to have you covered. He's got it. Find locked on him.

I'll be on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. Once again, we're joined by Thomas Govain from Redbird Brants.com. You can find him on Twitter X as well at Thomas Govane. We are doing voting here today since it is election day. And we're voting on who the cardinals should keep, who they should get rid of, going through the different names,

obviously the big high-price veterans. We just went through Helsley and Sunny Gray and Wilson Contreras and Nolan R. Renato. What about some smaller names maybe that we might get rid of? What are your thoughts on moving on from somebody like a Lars Newport, Thomas? Is that somebody that you're interested in moving? I know that there's always this thing about Lars where, you know, everybody loves him, got a lot of energy. He's a lot of fun. But he hasn't quite lived up to what I feel like,

hype was when when he first came up, you go and look at the numbers and the stats and the OPS Plus. You're like, you see where he's good. But then you're like, you're watching the eyeball test tells me like, I still haven't seen him become that guy that I thought he was going to be. Is this the time that you try to move on from him? I think just for that reason you hold on to him for just a little bit longer. He closed out last year very well, the last month or two.

I think he's a trade deadline guy that you got to keep. him flourish in the first half, let his value go back up to where it was a couple years ago, and then you see what the market is for a player like him. His baseball savant is still really good, and a lot of teams look at those underlying metrics to see what a player's potential is. If he can stay healthy, even play, I don't know, lead up to the deadline, 80 games, give or take, 85 games up to that point, 90% of his starts in. He probably has a lot of value at the deadline for teams, not necessarily right now.

look on yeah just something to keep in mind as uh as they make these moves because uh you know you've got a a decent set of outfielders and we're going to have to find room for all these guys once again it seems to be the problem and uh i don't know he's just a guy that i that some people have brought up like i'm just over him so thought i wanted to get your thoughts on that let's uh go back to the pitching staff here's a name that most people keep forgetting he's on the freaking team and that's eric fattie all right eric fattie comes over from the white last year is not what we wanted him to be in the first few starts, right? And then by the time he turns things around, we're already out of it, you know,

the season's pretty much in the back. So, but he's still under contract. He's not costing a lot, seven and a half million dollars next year, which is why he's kind of appealing for other teams. Is this a time to move on from Eric Fetty and see what you can get for him? Or you hang on to him and is he somebody who is a trade deadline guy in your eyes? Yeah, I think trade deadline. again, same idea is Newbar in a way.

His value isn't quite as high right now as it could be. Teams get really desperate for starting pitching at the deadline. He feels like a guy who can hold a place in the rotation until someone like Tinkhens or Quinn Matthews is ready in the second half. Let him play out the first half. Let him get his 3.8 ERA, 15, 20 starts, and then see what value has at the deadline. He's not going to witness a playoff spot necessarily,

but he's going to keep us in games, which is something we might need with rotation that's leaning young this year. Yeah, because the other guys in the rotation right now, for now, is Sunny Gray still in there. And then we got a couple other guys we need to talk about Miles Michaelis and Steve and Matt. We've had this discussion before. Of the two, Matt has more trade value for teams. Left hander, obviously, doesn't hurt him.

But the fact that he can do starting rotation if you need him, or he's been quite comfortable as a bullpen guy as well. What are your thoughts on Steve and Matt's? Is it time to move on from him now? Or do you want to wait till in the season and see if you can get more for? I think you got to move on from him now. His salary is not too much. Is 12 and a half?

Is that right? Yeah, it's like 11. I think it was where he's at. It was a 40 or 44. But I'm sure there's some money in and there. But right around there. Yeah. I think that's a salary that's pretty easy to move.

Even if you throw in two, three million, just to balance it out a little bit. He seems like a good offseason trade candidate for a team that's just looking for a swing man, filling 100, 120 innings possible this year and just get some time on the mound for them. He's just got to stay healthy, man. It's really nothing against Stephen Matt's. Like when we have seen him, I'm sure he's had some games where he's just complete garbage, but it seems like as soon as he kind of gets used to being on the mound again,

is when he starts to be the guy that you thought you were getting him when you signed him. The problem is he's never able to stay on the mound. So again, I'm ready to move on from that. It's like, bye, you know, I appreciate you. But I need people who can get the ball each and every day, which brings us to our next guy, who will take the ball each and every day, Thomas. The problem is a lot of times he gets sheled.

And that is Miles Michael is. He's in the final year of his deal. He's making a buttload. Here's something that I didn't realize. And maybe you can confirm it. So I saw in one of Katie Wu's, articles on the athletic she mentioned that michaelis has a no trade clause i've never seen that where did the hell that come from because when you go guys if you don't do this if you go to spot rack all right

and you can go to people's uh contracts and whatnot and there'll be a little card there that says ntc no trade clause i've never seen that on miles michaelis's page ever in my life and then in katy's article it says that he's got one and i'm like wait what what did this happen happen. That makes things a little more difficult, but where are you with Miles Michaelis? Are we keeping him and just letting this play out? Or do you think will there be somebody who, you know, could use a guy like him in the four or five role, which, you know, they can trust him to make 30 to 33 starts? Yeah, the fact that Patrick Corbyn has had a job for the last five years leads me to me, believe that someone will take his 200 innings and five and a half ERA.

Yeah. There's, there is a little bit of value still there. I mean, you got a guy who, who you know is going to get 30 starts, who you know has experience, who you know is going to be able to keep a calm head in moments. That's more valuable than some 22-year-old years going to fling out there and see what happens, if that makes sense. If he can't trade him,

he's got to cut him. He's not a benefit to us at this point in the rebuild. He's just taken up a spot that could be given to somebody else as we reset for the future. I've been on the cut or trade train from Oz Michael's, so whatever it takes for a pretty long time now. Yeah. Yeah, 15 quality starts last year, led the team.

It still blows my mind that that's a real stat. I was like, when did those happen? I don't remember that. I'd love to see his run support. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I'm the same way. Like, it's just time to move on.

And if you get what you can and, again, be somebody else's problem. I keep saying that phrase over and over. It's just, I just want something else. Like, you can't tell me there's not something better for you. out there than what you're getting from Miles Michaels over the last two years. It just shocks me. I want to throw this to you real quick before we let you go.

I got a text from our guys over at Locked-on Angels talking about Nolan Gorman. And the idea was, let me get the full text here from him. So just to get your thoughts on this because he was asking about Nolan Gorman's availability. And I was like, well, you know, I mean, I'm not saying he's untouchable. But he says, do you think the Cardinals would be interested in trading him for like a swap for Reid Detmer's? Another young guy who just hasn't been able to get it going in L.A.

About the same age, not making any money. What would your thoughts be on something like that on Nolan Garman for a reedetmer's? I think Reid Dettmers has tremendous value still. his stats wouldn't tell you that but he's a young guy he strikes out a bunch he's got team control i would probably do that trade you lose the power just perked up do you guys see that thomas got excited about that idea you lose the power that gorman brings but you also get a pitcher who fits in the window too i i think i do that trade the it probably leans more like we're probably giving up more than the angels are so if they want to throw in another guy or

some random 20 year old who is a lottery ticket that probably bounces a little bit more but I think that's a good trade for us. Do you think Gorman is somebody that it's time to move on from? Because that's somebody that I told them, I was just like, the problem with the Cardinals is that they hang on the guys too long and then they give up on guys too early. They haven't been able to find that happy medium yet and they get burned. It seems like either way that they go. And I feel like there's probably a little PTSD from giving up on a guy too early.

And, you know, we've seen Gorman, even though we ended the year at AAA where, you know, he had 19 home runs. Basically in the first half of the season, we know that the power is there. Is it too early or is this something that you're okay with moving on from whether it's with the Angels or any team if they call? Yeah, it's a silly answer, but it depends on the return. Like if you're giving up Gorman for prospects who could pan out, who couldn't pan out, that's different than a guy who has MLB statistics and a track record. that makes it a little bit easier to swallow because either way, the Angels could see a bad gorman and we get a good debt merge or vice versa.

And then both teams are taking an equal amount of risk there. Yeah, I was like, what about Joe Adele coming our way instead? And he was like, we love him. He's probably not going anywhere anymore. I don't think we need a high strikeout center field again, though. Yeah, well, I was just because he was a guy like watching him play. Like when you watch those West Coast games late at night and like, you see him, I'm like, God, he's such a freak, like athlete out there.

and you can see why everybody loved him. And, but yeah, he had a pretty good year this past year for the angel. So he was like, yeah, he's like, we're probably not going to do that. Anything about him, he's going to stick around for a while. But anyhow, so those are our votes. So it seems like we're trading a lot of people, Thomas, and the way that things are going for the Cardinals. And we seem okay with it.

I feel like we've accepted that this is what's happening. And we're just hoping for the best deals possible. And hopefully that this reset isn't something that takes. you know, two, three years or something like that, that it's, this is the ugly year that it all goes down. And then things are back up and going back to normal when they get this TV stuff figured out going into 2026. And, but it might be a tough year for the Cardinals, man. I hope we're all prepared. Yeah, just meet the stages of grief.

See where you are. Acceptance. That's the last one, right? We're there. Exceptance. It's exactly. That's where we're at. We'll see if things get more interesting.

GM meetings going on in San Antonio today. So business will probably pick up here real, real soon, and we'll have more answers for you than questions. So Thomas, as always, brother, I appreciate you coming on and chit-chatting, and we'll talk to you again real, real soon, okay? All right. Thank you, JD. All right, thank you guys for making Locked on Cardinals your first listen today.

And every day, if you haven't already, give us a follow on Twitter X at L.O. underscore Cardinals and a JD Sports Radio, like, subscribe on YouTube, help our channel and our love for the Cardinals grow. And, of course, give our man, Thomas, a follow, and make sure you're reading up on all of his good stuff at redbird rants.com. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll talk again soon on Lockdown Carles.