Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Why Brant Brown Could Be A Good Fit, Skip Schumaker's Future, Contreras Or Herrera To 1st Base?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cardinals offseason reset has kicked into gear with the recent moves in the front office. And on the coaching staff, should we be excited about these moves, though? We'll try to figure that out today on Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Carlis fans. I'm J.D. Hafford and I'm a national radio sports anchor, born and raised in the Lou and a lifetime Cardinals fan. and I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, covering your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:37 Follow me on Twitter, X, at JD Sports Radio in the podcast at L0 underscore Cardinals. We want to thank those of you who make Lockdown Cardinals your first listen every day. We are free and available wherever you get your podcast. You can also find us on YouTube. This is a show serving Cardle Nation and giving the best fans in baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by Fandul. You can start the season with a big return on Fandul, place your first $5 bed, and you'll get started with $200 in bonus bets guaranteed.

Starting point is 00:01:04 Visit fandal.com to get started. So joining us again today is our guy Jeff Jones from the Belleville News Democrat, which you can also find online at B&D.com. Thank you, as always, Jeff, for jumping on and talking us through everything that's going on with the Cardinals. Happy to do it. It's nice to have something we talk about, at least here, this nice little quiet week before the World Series get started. There you go. The Cardinals got their offseason kind of rolling yesterday.

Starting point is 00:01:29 I mean, the Heinzloom stuff was obviously a big deal with the press conference at the end of the season. But they made the announcements yesterday about hiring a new hitting coach in Bram Brown, a new assistant GM and Rob Serfoglio, and a new coach in John Jay for Ali's staff. And they didn't make some other announcements about other parts of the organization. But those are the three real big things that happened in yesterday's press conference. I want to start with Brant Brown because this is a spot where. You know, fans are very much in tune with what's going on with hitting coaches these days. They consider it such a big deal. Yesterday, I kind of went through Bram Brown's coaching career and focused on mainly what he's done the last two years.

Starting point is 00:02:14 Not so much with what he had going on with the Dodgers. But what he did in the last couple of years with Miami and with the Mariners, because things seemed pretty good in Miami with the Marlins. You know, he was with Skip. He was with John. And then things soured quickly in his new role in Seattle. Seattle, he got canned just a couple of months into the season. I know we got a good recommendation from Skip, heard John Moseilock in the press conference yesterday. But what is it about

Starting point is 00:02:41 Brant Brown to you that you think that the Cardinals are attracted to considering that he just lost his job with the Mariners for not being able to hit this past season? And now he's going to come in as a hitting coach for St. Louis. Yeah, you know, I think there's a couple of things. I think number one, that recommendation from Skip Schumacher does carry a lot of weight with this current Cardinals front office. I think also, you know, the description from Jose Like yesterday is that he is sort of in between Jeff Albert and Turner Ward in terms of how he deals with players. But that was an interesting description because the issue with Jeff Albert was not so much that he couldn't, they didn't know hitting. It was that he was not particularly talented at coaching hitting to

Starting point is 00:03:23 establish big leaguers, right? Like I think we all know people on our day-to-day lives who maybe communicate in a certain way that just sort of grinds the gears, right? And this was sort of the case with Jeff and a lot of the big league hitters. I think there was a feeling maybe he talked down to them, that maybe some of the veterans didn't think that he appreciated a lot of, you know, the experience they had and so on. And so that rubbed wrong, whereas Turner cut very much in the opposite direction. You know, Turner Awards connected to the Cardinals team in large part because of his relationship with Paul Goldtrick that was preexisting and from being a guy who had a really good

Starting point is 00:03:52 reputation around the league, but who like Brandt Brown had bounced around a lot. So I thought that the description yesterday of Brown as being kind of in between them was interesting, especially given that, you know, from the small amount of people I've been able to talk to and sort of learning about him as best I could over the last couple of days. The thing about Brandt Brown that I've heard is that he's sort of hard driving, right? Like kind of gets on guys a little bit, kind of has an edge about him. You know, old school. I don't know. What are all the youth bids we want to use for a guy who's kind of got up here in his saddle and can yell once in a while, right? And that is the description that I've gotten about Brad Brown.

Starting point is 00:04:27 So, you know, does that check out to me as different from either Turner or Jeff? It definitely does. That was not really the style that either of them had. So we'll see. You know, I think primarily here the thing to kind of look at is, again, not only that endorsed from Skip Schumacher, but also I, whatever the situation was in Seattle last year, I have a hard time holding against him. because what could he possibly have done in six months in his job to earn being fired by the end of May? You know, the Mariners went on to fire Scott's service before the end of the season.

Starting point is 00:05:00 Clearly, ownership had a big hand in picking the replacement of there. They hired Dan Wilson as a replacement guy with no coaching experience at the big league level. What that says to me is that it was a pretty tumultuous front office situation in Seattle last year. And so whatever was happening there, you can't write it all off right, but I have a hard time. and really hanging a lot of it on Brand Brown just based on what everything else that happened after he was let go and what it kind of implies about the Seattle organization.

Starting point is 00:05:28 I did a little digging into some of our locked on guys over a locked on Mariners and asked them their opinions on what went wrong with Bram Brown. Like how was it that his leash was so short that he gets let go two months into the season. And they honestly said that they thought it was maybe just his ability to communicate with certain people on the roster for the Mariners.

Starting point is 00:05:51 So maybe it's just been a good fit for just that particular group of hitters. Because you didn't hear about anything like this with Miami. Obviously, the Dodgers had them around for quite a long time. And look, I don't, I have not heard this set, right? But from your description and from other folks, if you're the Mariners and the guy that you brought in is not messing with Julio, it's not going to work. Right. And it maybe was as simple as that, whether it was Julio or Calralli or whoever, if the guy that you bring in can't get it together with your most important hitters, then changes are going to happen.

Starting point is 00:06:26 Yeah. Yeah. They also mentioned that they think by taking more, you know, not having so much on Brant Brown's plate, like if he had just been a hitting coach, they thought maybe things that it would have gone a little bit smoother for him. But because he had so many things going on that, you know, because he was the offensive coordinator. and a bench coach that maybe it was a little too much for him. And they felt they didn't have anything really bad to say about Bram Brown. They just kind of were like, you know, I think he'll be fine as just the hitting coach.

Starting point is 00:06:55 If he can just focus on doing that, I think he'll be okay. They just thought maybe there was just a little too much thrown at him and it kind of swallowed him up last year. So hopefully that's good news for the Cardinals, you know, because they need something to get this offense going in the right direction, you know, after seeing how it's soured out last year, particularly with runners in scoring position. What did you think about them hiring somebody that was kind of, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:21 outside of the organization, even though they got the good recommendation that you mentioned. But, you know, we had talked about some of the internal options in the organization that might have been promoted up. Did it surprise you that they went outside and brought somebody like Brant Brown in as opposed to bringing somebody up that they already had? It didn't really surprise me. You know, I think that kind of given his pedigree and his experience, that, that they were looking for, especially, you know, you mentioned having that sort of narrower scope that was also part of the conversation yesterday was, well, Frank Brown is going to coach the big league hitters and whatever else happened to the lower levels with Russ Steinhorn and his group,

Starting point is 00:07:58 who have sort of, you know, coordinated hitting in the minors over the last couple of years as well as, you know, the other work from all those other hitting coaches, that's going to make sense. You know, when they like did say yesterday that there are definitely going to be changes to some of the minor league coaching staffs, but, you know, with Sturfolio just getting onboarded and there a conversation going to be involved in, et cetera, et cetera. So they weren't ready to announce the minor league coaching staffs yet. So it may well be that some of those guys we might have considered to be candidates may will be moving on to other organizations as well.

Starting point is 00:08:26 Gotcha. You brought up Rob Sefolio. I want to talk about him next. The new 32-year-old assistant GM, who's coming in from the Guardians organization. We'll get some discussion with Jeff about him next coming up on Lockdown Cardinals. Hey, NFL fans, you can start the season with a big return on. Fanduel, America's number one sports book. You know, sometimes you'll be watching a game.

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Starting point is 00:09:45 Right now when you place your first $5 bet with Fanduel, that's $200 in bonus bets. guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet at fandul.com. That's fandual.com. Thanks for making lots on Cardinals your first listen every day. You can leave your comments on YouTube as well as on Twitter X anytime you want that feedback is always welcome and encourage. We got Jeff Jones from the Belleville News Democrat joining us. Again, you can check out his work at b&D.com.

Starting point is 00:10:20 And we're talking about the new hirings that were made over the last 2448 hours. We just talked about Brand Brown moving on to the new assistant general manager, player development and performance, Mr. Robert Sorfolio, who, you know, like when I first saw his picture pop up on the screen, I'm like, he's got a little Brad Thompson going there with the youthful look, but he is young, man. He's 32 years old. He was named Cleveland's director of player development ahead of the 2022 season after spending seven years in various roles in both player development and amateur scouting. What are your thoughts on Robert Serfoglio as, you know, most of us don't know a whole lot about front office stuff. And whether or not this is a good thing or a bad thing, we know he's young. We know he's coming from the Guardians who have had some pretty good success recently. What are your thoughts on Robsterfolio and his future with the Cardinals? Yeah, you know, it's one thing when you start to get older than almost all the players, when it starts to happen with the front office guys, too, that it's really a big long look in the mirror.

Starting point is 00:11:23 I'm like five years. I'm 10 weeks older than Paul Goldcham was tough enough for me. I'm like five years older than Rob Trofolia. It's not looking great for there. No, look, in terms of what he brings to the table, it's sort of exactly what you mentioned it, right? It's that experience of Cleveland with a player development system that has obviously been really highly ranked for a long time and for a team that has, you know, relied pretty

Starting point is 00:11:45 exclusively on developing internal options in order to remain competitive. And, you know, there are, I think, a decent amount of parallels between the Cardinals, and the Guardian just in terms of, you know, whether it's market size or the way the organizations prefer to be run, you know, to some extent, the insularity in the organizations, you know, Chris Antenetti has been running, has been the number one guy in Cleveland since 2010 and, you know, was there for many years before that, right? So this is, you know, another organization that's had a lot of stability there. The thing that, Cirolio in particular, it's hard to say, you know, he obviously comes with the pedigree of having come up in that organization,

Starting point is 00:12:26 a guy who went to Yale, playing on the baseball team at Yale, and, you know, has that background, which is another connection behind Bloom and the DeWitts as well. But the thing about Sirfoglio that stands out to me that also stands out about Bloom, when you look at the way that the Cardinals are sort of restaffing their front office, right? You know, I think that the big top line hires are definitely going to be one thing, but I think that we could also expect a lot of the guys underneath to probably turn over over the next year or so as well.

Starting point is 00:12:53 Well, just because that's sort of how you hire a new boss. The new boss has people that they're going to want to bring it. That's sort of how this is going to go. We saw some of that today. You know, the air cool report of this morning that Matt Slater was leaving the organization. You know, there are guys that are relatively highly ranked in the front office that are going to be stepping back. The thing that stands out to me about both Bloom and Serfoglio is that primarily Bloom in Tampa Bay, but also to some extent in Boston and then obviously Sirfoglio being in Cleveland the whole time,

Starting point is 00:13:20 We're talking about guys who their relevant experience comes in developing players for teams who treat those players as though they have a shelf life and who aren't really active in sort of spending big league quality cash to bring in outside free agents, right? Like the Guardians just playing don't do that. The raise really pretty much, like the largest raise for agent contract of all time is like 60 million bucks that they gave Zach Eifflin who they trade it. by the way, with a year and a half left on that team. This is something that these teams just kind of don't do. Even the Red Sox, you know, under Haim Bloom, didn't really bring in those kinds of outside players. They did the Debrage extension, you know,

Starting point is 00:14:03 there was money spent. Cleveland's done the Jose Ramirez extension, but really not, you know, not in the sort of way that competes with the upper echelon of teams throughout baseball, right? And so I think that they have, they're going to have a long runway here to prove themselves and I think it's reasonable to give them time to prove themselves. The explanation from the Cardinals has been, you know, payroll is going to scale back for a while while there's uncertainty in the media rights and while they're standing up player development and while they're doing this down on the other thing.

Starting point is 00:14:33 But that when the time comes, the money will be there. Just, you know, at the level it has been historically. Okay, but they're going to have to demonstrate that that's the case, right? Because in present, they're staffing the front office with guys whose background says these are guys who are wanting to develop players and how. house, get the most out of them when they're young, you know, promote them aggressively, let these guys get to the big leagues and really give you what they can give you when they're 21, 22, 23. And by the time these guys are approaching free agency or even arbitration, looking to flip them and looking to move them out. And by the way, we have seen the Cardinals

Starting point is 00:15:10 dabble in this over the last few years too, right? This was the plan with Harrison Bader. This was the plan with Tommy Edmund. You walk these guys in extensions. This was a plan with you money Diego, in fact, you know, in a different way. You assign these guys to deals that take them through arbitration, and then they get traded with like a year and a half left on those deals because they're cost certain, and you can get a decent chunk for them. You know, this, we'll see what happens with like the Brandon Donovan's of the world, but this is sort of how the Cardinals have to use a mo word arbitrage their talent over

Starting point is 00:15:42 the last three, four years. And they are now bringing in guys to staff the front office who come from that background. Now, maybe it just is what it is. And maybe, you know, three or four years from now when young player X is hitting free agency, the Cardinals are going to be in there with 300 million bucks in their handout. Maybe that's possible. But I think that, you know, that that's going to have to be proven at this point just based on the way that the new leaders in this front office have operated. And then how that kind of impact we can expect from them moving forward.

Starting point is 00:16:18 Yeah, and the business model as far as putting a team together that way, it seems to make a lot more sense because we're not seeing salaries going down. They're just going to keep going and it's going and it's going to be seven and eight, nine, say, you're like, we don't know what Juan Soda is going to get. You know, it's going to be crazy. You saw the show hey contract this past year. And, you know, I feel like kind of the writing was on the wall where they're like, you know, they're talking about Yamamoto and this and that. And we're like, there's no way the cardals are going to ever compete for those kind of contracts and be able to pay guys that amount of money. So how do we stay up to par with the talent on the field? And we can't go buy these guys.

Starting point is 00:17:00 So what do you got to do? You got to build them yourself. You got to grow them yourself. And it just makes a whole lot more sense. Unfortunately, it's going to take a little time to kind of maneuver that way. Sure, they'll still spend some money on free agents to kind of to compliment hopefully these young. prospects that they do develop. And I think that's kind of the idea moving forward. I like it. It's just it's just something different for fans who aren't used to them doing it that way.

Starting point is 00:17:24 And it's going to take a year or two maybe to kind of get back to that level that maybe fans are used to. Yeah. The thing that I would say here is that I think that we should be careful about saying that the Cardinals can't compete with these. They can't. They absolutely can, right? They have the revenues that they are more than able to do that. They choose not to because they say it doesn't get their revenue model and they're not getting your turn out of it and that's fine but you know salaries go up because revenues go up right and you know this doesn't happen just out of the goodness of the hearts of owners it happens because the market drives it that way so you know i for me i think it's important to draw that distinction because

Starting point is 00:18:05 the cardinals i understand the economic pressures that would bring them into a situation when they think that their best move is to sort of turn internal this way, especially given kind of where they're at on the competitive arc and their need to read. All of that makes sense to me. As long as on the back end, you're willing to dive back in. And, you know, the comparison that I'll draw here is the Cubs, because Cubs fans heard for a long time after the World Series win in 16 and the tear down really started, they were going to develop these young guys. And then when the time came, the Cubs were going to be there and they were going to still be the Cubs in pre-agency. And you know what? They really, really haven't been. Like, Shoda Imanaga this past

Starting point is 00:18:47 winter, the number that I think it was a lot lower than a lot of folks would have expected. And other than Imanaga, the Cubs have really not gone into free, Suzuki, I guess, well, would have really not gone into free agency to get those kinds of guys, right? Now, could the Cubs go out and spend $250 million on Pete Alonzo this winter? They could. And if they do, maybe that's a demonstration and that they feel like they're ready to turn the page there. But a lot of times what happens with these resets, you know, we've seen it in Baltimore as well. We've seen there in Houston even, right? The Astros don't sign big free agents.

Starting point is 00:19:20 The Astros paid L2A and the Astros, you know, paid your time. But the Astros don't go out and compete for these big free agents. And so when it becomes we're going to scale it back, we're going to tear it down, and then we're going to reset it. And then the money is going to be there on the back end. The track record is not super great for the money. showing up on the back end for a lot of these themes. And so that's something I think that that's worth keeping an eye on over the next two, three, five years, whatever it's going to be.

Starting point is 00:19:50 We want to talk about the additions of a familiar face in John Jay, what's going on with Willie. And I want to talk more about, you know, some of the comments that Mo made where he was talking about, well, there's going to be a lot more opportunities for younger guys, what we think that means, who might be on the go. And, you know, you talk about competing. you know, at the major league level with the roster that the Cardinals are going to have moving forward next year. I want to get your thoughts on, do we really think it's going to be as bad as everybody's freaking out about? Is it, are they going to be dropping into where some people are selecting them as, you know, last in the division next year already?

Starting point is 00:20:27 Is that something that fans should be prepared for? We'll get more with Jeff Jones coming up next on Lockdown Cardinals. Price Fix is the best place to get real money sports action with over 10 million members in building. millions of dollars in awarded winnings. Prize Picks has made Daily Fantasy Sports accessible to all. And you just pick more or less on at least two players for a shot to win up to 100 times your cash. So run your game all season long on Price Picks because you can now win up to 100 times your money on prize picks with as little as four correct picks. Now, Price Pix is the only real money, daily fantasy sports platform with an injury insurance policy, which is always nice.

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Starting point is 00:22:23 by locked on MLB on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Once again, our guy, Jeff Jones from the Belleville News Democrat, joining us today. Find his work online, B&D.com. Going through all things, Cardinal. So we've run through Bram Brown. We've talked about Rob Serfoglio. Let's talk about John Jay joining the staff coming over from the Marlins, has spent a couple of years there under Skip Schumacher.

Starting point is 00:22:48 And people keep pointing out like, do you notice the trend here? They keep bringing in Skips Boys. And now it's got people talking about whether or not Skip's going to be joining the staff at some point or another. Don't know about that yet. But what could you tell us about John Jay? Because I know he did, he was coaching first base over there. Is he essentially just sliding into what Willie McGee's role was with the everyday team? You know, you talk about him being one of Skips Boys.

Starting point is 00:23:12 But John Jay and Daniel, Scouse were co-owners of a sunglasses company together. Those are, you know, I got some connections there too. Yeah, so in terms of day-to-day responsibilities, it sounds like he'll be feeling basically exactly what Willie McGee did, which is coaching the outfield defense, helping some of the positioning and some of the base running stuff, and then just sort of being around as a day-to-day soundboard, you know, a guy who's play the big league, you know, can relate to a lot of guys, all that stuff that that you saw Willie do over the last handful of years here from the bench. You know, in terms of how he fits into the staff more broadly, what the line from Moseilock was that the broad swath of duties here appeal to him. He could touch many parts of the game. And maybe that's the case. To me, the most interesting part of it, I think there's a fairly strong implication and a fairly decent chance at this point that Skip Schumacher is not planning to take a managerial job this winter, right? Because you have seen guys who have connections to him, take jobs elsewhere,

Starting point is 00:24:09 and some of them in St. Louis, in fact, you know, there are only two jobs open right now. One is a job he just got fired from or whatever, just left, I guess. And the other is the white socks and frankly if you are like far in away the number one most desirable managerial candidate that doesn't have a job right now i would get not wanting to go through the white socks right that would you know if you're skip schumacher i understand keeping the options open you know you know there were some discussion at the start of the postseason well if the dodgers bomb out that job pops open if the yankees bomb out but that clearly didn't happen uh and so if you're skip schumacher you're looking at the job market i can see where it would make all the sense in the world to maybe not

Starting point is 00:24:47 take a job this winter just because he's like you have to take a job when there will be many available to you in the coming months and years. So, you know, to me, John Jay is a logical fit for that position, obviously has those connections with the guys on staff here. He's well-known on the organization. Spring training is in the exact same spot for him. You know, it's, you know, across the complex, right? Pretty easy for him from a lifestyle perspective. So I, yeah, I think he will do a perfectly adequate job at all that stuff to William he did as well. And I'm sure that they'll be happy to have him. And we'll just sort of see what it means for whatever his longevity here might be.

Starting point is 00:25:23 You notice that the former players from the organization continue to come back and do coaching and stuff. Are there any other whispers about any other names of former players that they might be interested in talking to or bringing back in? Obviously, we had the Matt Holiday thing where he decided, I don't know, I'm not ready to do all that just yet. Anybody else maybe off the top of the head that you think might be a good fit? for the team here in the future? You know, the one that I do wonder about is Alan Craig, who is working in player development in San Diego. Right now, the Cardinals obviously are sort of staffing up in that direction.

Starting point is 00:25:58 It's not clear to me whether the jobs, you know, the two jobs that are hiring under Surfolio in that department, whether those would actually be promotions for Craig based on where he's at in San Diego, and I believe he's also from San Diego originally. You know, there's a lot that makes sense to kind of keep him there. But just based on the guys that they've brought back and those guys that they're connected to and kind of the path that his post-playing career has taken, it would not totally shock me if you heard his name start to pop up over the next couple of weeks

Starting point is 00:26:25 as they kind of staff out more of the player development department. In the press conference yesterday with Moe talking about all the move that they made, he was asked about whether he had spoken with any of the players yet, the veteran players on the roster about the direction of the team since the initial press conference. and he said he had and that more conversations were to come and that the direction that we're going to be going is going to be creating some opportunities for our younger players. And, you know, you look at the roster for the at the end of the year, it's not like it's lived with a lot of old guys, you know. There's definitely a youthful vibe to the team outside of, you know, the three big guys who have the no trade clauses in Nolan Aronada, Wilson Contreras and Sunny Gray. obviously he got Michaelis, he got mats, but, you know, it's not an old team in my eyes by any means.

Starting point is 00:27:18 So when he says more opportunities for younger players, there's a lot of it already out there. Who do you think he was talking about with that particular comment? You know, the first place mine, mine jumps to is the pitching staff, right? Because last year we saw them bring in the three veteran starters. I wouldn't expect them to do that same sort of shopping this winter. I, you know, I still don't have a really good read on what their plan is with Kyle Gibson. and frankly, I think there's a chance that their plan for Kyle Gibson might depend on what they think the market looks like more broadly, i.e., you know, if they think they're going to trade Sunny Gray, I would not be surprised if they hang on to Gibson just because you're going to need people to pitch and even great in the clubhouse, you know, a great teacher for these guys. That would not shock me in the slightest. I would expect them. I don't know, it's probably not fair to say that I would expect them to trade Stephen Matt's, but I would be really, I would be pretty. surprised if Stephen Matt was not the most logical person out of the staff to be traded this

Starting point is 00:28:16 winter just because doesn't have trade protection, only has one you up on a heel. There's proof of concept for him as a reliever. So if you bring him in and he doesn't crack your rotation, he has pitched well enough out of the bullpen, but that's a logical guy who you would see go. But in terms of, you know, the opportunity looks like, so you're talking about, you know, Michael McGreevy, who Moseilock named at the first press conference in Drew's in Bloom as a guy they're going to want to seek start. I think you could probably include Andre Palante in that group.

Starting point is 00:28:43 If you want to flex it a little, you know, you would say that Palante would be a guy like that. Gricepa was going to get an opportunity to show. Quinn Matthews is going to get an opportunity to show at some point. Zach Thompson is out of options going into spring training. So if he is still on the 40 man heading into spring, he's probably going to have to pitch in the big league in some former fashion. You know, we're talking about is it Matt Liberator pitching in the back end of the bullpen because Ryan Helsley has moved up. on from. I think that that's a, that's an entirely possible scenario there. So, you know, when he talks about those, those opportunities, the pitching staff is where it jumps to mind.

Starting point is 00:29:19 But then, yeah, otherwise, you know, is it, is it, so Jacey getting a decent amount of reps at second than Donovan nor Gorman playing third? Is it, you know, is that Jordan Walker is getting 600 plate appearances next season and if he hits, he hits and if he doesn't, he'll figure it out. Maybe that's, that's definitely a path they could go. Is it just sort of full. commit to giving them all the time in the world to figure it out. You know, it probably means they're staying internal at first base, whether that's a combination of Verlisten and Baker, whether that Wilson-Contreras or about Herrera as part of that conversation, you know, it means probably things like that.

Starting point is 00:29:57 Primarily, I think what it means more broadly is don't expect them to be in the market for, you know, the top or even middle ends, I guess, of the free agent pool, right? Like I would not expect him to be in the bidding for Pete Alonso, for instance. I wouldn't really expect him to be in the bidding for Christian Walker, right? I don't, if the Cardinals signed a nine-figure free agent this winter, I would be pretty stunned by that. If the Cardinals signed a 10-figure free agent this winter, I would be like a little bit surprised. So, you know, when he's talking about opportunities for younger players, I think it's more just there are guys who are here, guys who maybe you would say today are kind of like four A tweeters, you're not sure.

Starting point is 00:30:39 they're going to find out one way or another. The catching position, real quick, before we let you go, but the catching position is something that is starting to intrigue me even more because when we talk about maybe moving contracts, we talked about this before where we don't know what exactly the rest of the league really thinks about Wilson Contreras when nobody really went on and got him at the trade deadline that previous year. But you've got to got three guys there who all deserve, obviously,

Starting point is 00:31:06 to be on the major league roster. Would there, do you think Contreras moving to first would ever be something that that would be discussed or is that just, is that just too much? I don't think it's totally outside their own possibility. You know, I think for a catcher in his 30s, there are going to be conversations about, you know, where he wants to go and what he's comfortable with kind of as the legs go. But look, I mean, Wilson is a competitor. He still views himself as a catcher and frankly, played whatever it was, a third of a season

Starting point is 00:31:36 this past year and so say you know half the season I guess and saves the miles on the legs so it would not surprise me if really wanting to catch is going to be really high on his list of priorities and frankly look if the cardinals if it's the desire of the cardinals to shed that salary one way to do that would probably be to convince Contreras that if he wants to stay here he's going to be not behind the plate I'm not saying that Contrarius would would demand a trade if he wasn't going to catch, nor am I saying the Cardinals would bring that to him. But to me, you know, a guy who has that level of pride in his receiving, one way to nudge him would be to say, okay, but here are the guys we're going to catch. The other thing on this front that I'll say briefly, too, is that

Starting point is 00:32:18 Yvonne Herrera is playing winter ball in the Dominican for Albert Pujol's team. I think it's Skinkito, I should know that. But Yvonne is playing for Albert Poole's team this winter. If Yvonne Herrera is playing first base in the DR this winter, pretty good indication of what the Cardinals, what will have him be doing in spring, especially given that Albert Pujols will be his manager while he is playing winter ball. So if you see Yvonne Herrera in the infield or in the corner outfield in, you know, playing winter ball this year, that's a pretty good indication of where they see his future as well. Yeah, because that was my next thought was like, I mean, it might make more sense to just move Yvonne who hasn't shown that he's all that great of a catcher at the moment

Starting point is 00:32:56 anyway, but the bat obviously plays at the major league level. You got to keep that in the lineup, in my opinion. So, and then you've got, you know, crooks coming up with who you just wrote about recently too. Like, you know, he's, he's right behind him as well as a prospect. So they've got some depth there to catcher position. And, you know, it's just going to be interesting to see what they decide to go ahead with moving forward. Well, Jeff, as always, I appreciate your time, dude. Every time we talk, it's always enlightening about things going on with the Cardinals. And I love discussing it with you. Make sure you guys follow him on Twitter X. Make sure you guys are reading his work at B&D.com.

Starting point is 00:33:33 He just wrote about Quinn Matthews and Crooks, who I was just talking about, two of the top prospects in the organization for the Cardinals. So make sure you guys check out that as well. So thank you, as always, Jeff, for joining us today. Anytime, man. Happy to do it. All right. Thank you, brother. And thank you guys for joining us here on Locked-on Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:33:52 A reminder that you can like and subscribe on YouTube to help our channel and our love for the Cardinals grow. You can follow me on TwitterX at L1 underscore Cardinals and the JD Sports Radio. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason, and I will see you next time on Lockdown Cardinals.

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