Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Why Did This Happen And Who's To Blame For The Contreras Injury

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cardinals lose much more than just a game on Tuesday. The latest on the devastating injury to Wilson Contreras on today's episode of Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardals fans. I'm J.D. Haffron and I'm a national radio sports anchor, born and raised in the Lou and a Lifetime Cardinals fan. And I'm your host for Locked on Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, covering your team every day. You can follow me on Twitter X at JD Sports Radio. You can follow the podcast at L.O. underscore Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:00:39 I want to thank those of you who do make Locked on Cardinals, your first list in every day. We're free and available wherever you get your podcast. If this is your first time joining us, welcome aboard. We're also on YouTube. Be sure to like, subscribe, and comment so you're interacting with us, get the notification button so you know when those new episodes are posted. This is a show serving Cardle Nation and giving the best fans of baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode being brought to you by eBay. Motors from brakes to exhaust kits and beyond. eBay Motors has over 122 million parts to keep your ride or die alive. With all the parts that you need at the prices you want, it's easy to bring home that big win. Keep your rider die alive at eBaymotors.com. Eligible items only,

Starting point is 00:01:17 exclusions apply. eBay guaranteed fit, only available to U.S. customers. It's a somber day for Cardinal Nation. Just when you thought it really couldn't get much worse for the St. Louis Cardinals, tragedy strikes in the form of an injury to arguably the most important position player on the roster this year, and that's catcher Wilson Contreras. Let's sadly go back and talk about how it happened, why it happened, who's to blame. We're going to get into all of that today. We'll go back to Cardinals had just scored three runs in the first inning. Top of the first.

Starting point is 00:01:53 Everything seemed to be going great, right? Top of the first. Michaelis looks good. Bottom of the first, they scored three runs. Contreras, a big part of that, ripping a double that went 113 miles per hour off the bat, just baffled left fielder Stewart as he just sailed off the top of his, I mean, that was a missile. It looked like it was knuckling and it just hammered that pitch. Goes to the wall in left field.

Starting point is 00:02:16 He winds up scoring on a two-out base hit by Alec Berlison, who came in clutch had a big night on Tuesday. Then with one out in the top of the second inning, J.D. Martinez digs in. And on the fourth pitch of the at bat, Martinez took a hack. And simultaneously, Wilson Contreras is reaching out with his glove hand to receive the pitch, like he's done hundreds and hundreds of times already this season. And instead of connecting with the ball or even the glove, it was a different feeling. Martinez said after the game, you're expecting to hit a ball and you hit an arm. And you're like, well, what was that?

Starting point is 00:02:54 I hit meat. I felt I hit meat. I didn't hit just a glove where you point back at the catcher. It was solid. Dude, I hit him good. When I got to first, I felt terrible. And the reaction from Wilson Contreras, it said it all, and you knew it was something serious. And then they showed the replay.

Starting point is 00:03:13 As Martinez's back connects with Contreras's forearm, and you can just see the movement in the arm. And as soon as I saw it, I said, uh-oh, uh-oh. that did not look good because it wasn't a glancing blow it hit flush and the full power of the six three two hundred and thirty pound Martinez was felt by contraris in the worst way possible as it hit his arm went down to his wrist and after sitting with ali marmal and head trainer adam olson for a few minutes he reluctantly left the field uh not moving his left arm clearly there was an issue and not long later we learned that pedro pa has had been removed from his game from Memphis, all but signaling the bad news that was going to come down the pipeline. And then not long after that, we got the horrific news that the blow from Martinez's bat had fractured Wilson Contreras's left arm and that he would be out indefinitely. And all the positive energy, any good vibes that had come from that first inning, immediately sucked out of Bush Stadium in an instant.

Starting point is 00:04:18 Just bam, gone. Contreras would say afterwards that this is the most, most pain I'd been through for sure. I knew right away it was a bad situation. Unfortunately, it's going to take six to eight weeks to recover. I'm not going to blame anybody. I just have to get back stronger. And surgery is coming up in the next couple of days. That was the last thing I heard is that he will undergo surgery.

Starting point is 00:04:43 So I'm sure they're going to have to put a plate in there or something. He talked about afterwards too where he tried to move it a little bit. He could hear cracking. Ugh. Dude, I don't have the strongest of stomachs in the first place, but to hear that, I'm just, it makes me ill. It makes me ill. Now, there's a couple of things in the quote that I want to talk about with those phrases. First off, Wilson Contreras is one tough son of a gun.

Starting point is 00:05:09 We know that. I mean, he's already been dealing with the hand injury pretty much the whole season after getting hit by a pitch early on in San Diego probably should have gone on the IEL, but because he's tough his nails. He wanted to play. He wanted to contribute. He wanted to compete with his teammates. You'd see him on certain plays just writhing in pain because of his hand. But there he'd be either the next inning or if they had to take him out because the pain was too much, he'd be there in the next game. Like we'd be shocked. He's in the lineup? That's crazy. So for him to say that this is the most pain that he's ever been in, you know it's something pretty serious. Like I don't know how many

Starting point is 00:05:50 fractures there are in there. But like I said, the way that the movement was on the replay, you can just see everything in his arm was like moving. Like you know how like during the Aaron Rogers play, if you watched the NFL this year and in that first series for the Jets, Aaron Rogers and they were focusing like after he ruptured his Achilles Stennon and they showed like the movement going? That's what it looked like, but it was Willie's arm instead. It was disgusting. And you just knew it was something bad. So second, him saying I'm not going to blame anybody. This is where things get a little bit controversial because there's obviously been a lot of feedback online.

Starting point is 00:06:31 And people are pointing at other people as to why and how this happened and who's to blame. You know, some people are blaming J.D. Martinez. I'll tell you why they're blaming him for this while some are choosing to blame the St. Louis Cardinals. and what they decided to make Wilson Contreras and their catchers do this year. So I'm going to get into all of that, explain it to you, and you can make a judgment for yourself whether there's a certain somebody to blame here, or is it just a freak accident? Is it just stuff happens?

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Starting point is 00:10:48 Again, thank you for making Locktown Cardinals, your first list. listen every day. Love getting all your comments, good and bad. Give me that feedback. It's always welcome and encouraged. Time to play the blame game. I wish I had some like game show music to play along with that because blame game time. We got to find out whose fault this is for something like this happening because freak accidents don't just happen, do they? Injuries just, they don't just occur when grown men are playing a sport where they're wielding bats and throwing and hitting balls at triple digit speeds. Of course not. Somebody's got to be in the wrong here, right? Sometimes things just go bad, all right? And that's my opinion on this. Some things just go bad. And whether you agree or

Starting point is 00:11:33 disagree with me, it hasn't stopped people from trying to place blame on someone's doorstep in this situation. There are reasons why this happened, but I'm not blaming somebody. It's not like somebody intentionally put somebody in a spot and said, you're doing it. And so, you're doing it. this despite the fact that you're going to get hurt. That's that's not what happened. Let's start with the JD Martinez part of this, okay? Because I tweeted last night, I was like, and it was a joke. I don't know if it was taken as a joke from some people, but I was like, JD Martinez certified cheater. I meant it as a joke, but he's the man who swung the club that cracked the arm in the first place, not a guy who isn't familiar with catcher's

Starting point is 00:12:15 interference calls. Not sure if it has to do with his swing. Maybe it does. Maybe he's got a long start to his swing and sweeps it through the zone. I haven't studied J.D. Martinez is a swing enough to know that. But he got Wilson's brother William Contreras of the Brewers twice in one game last year on catchers interference calls, something that was pointed out by Derek Gould at STL Today.com. Our buddy, Thomas Govain at RedbirdRance.com, pointed out that when you look at photos from the crime scene last night, let me put these up here for the for the YouTube people watching on YouTube. I can show you for the audio guys.

Starting point is 00:12:49 Sorry you can't see this, but I'll try to explain it to you. So here's the setup before J.D. Martinez takes a swing at the plate. And you can see how close Contreras is to J.D. Martinez. All right. They're all crammed in there, nice and tight. But if you look at the back right leg of J.D. Martinez, look at the ground. Look at his leg.

Starting point is 00:13:11 Look at his foot. Look at where the batters boxes. All right? you look at that and from my point of view here it appears that during this abat martinez's back foot is a few inches behind the batter's boxes back line now that line granted it gets dug out and kicked around during games plenty like you'll notice though hitters will dig in and they kick the hell out of that line so it's spread out all over the play so I don't know how good the line looks there still at this point but this was the second inning so it's not like

Starting point is 00:13:46 it's been used a whole lot yet. I have not seen an aerial view of the batters box of this bat, but from this side angle, it looks to me like he's too far back. Here's another picture of it where he's starting to swing, and you can see the point of his foot, and it looks to me that he's out of the box, which is not what he's supposed to be doing.

Starting point is 00:14:09 Now, does he set up that way to injure catchers? Absolutely not. He does it so we can get that extra millisecond to see the ball, to play tons of hitters stand there and take a little bit extra. But could this have been part of the cause of the injury because of the extra couple of inches here that may have led to this injury? Certainly a possibility. Second persons that people are pointing fingers at are the St. Louis Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:14:37 Now, one of the things that a lot of teams around baseball are doing are having their catchers set up closer to the plate. And they're doing it for framing purposes. and when you set up closer and then you reach your arm out, it's going to be put in harm's way more frequently. Now, the idea is to catch the ball before it falls out of the zone. So making it appear to be a strike at the knees instead of a ball. Like it's more of like, I don't want to say a trick,

Starting point is 00:15:08 but it's a visual thing for the umpires to make it look like it's a strike more times than not. All right. Derek Gould wrote a piece talking about this saying a topic of discussion within the industry is the dramatic increase in catcher interference calls just like Contreras is on Tuesday. Chasing an old practice of framing pitches but empowered by new metrics that precisely measure that skill catchers throughout the majors are creeping closer and closer to the plate. Contreras worked with the Cardinals during the spring of 2023 to position himself closer to that plate than he had been with the Cubs for the express purpose of improving the calls. he got on lower pitches. Many catchers and teams are doing it for an obvious reason. It works. It pays off, but it's not without risk. So first thing you got to notice there is, yes, the cardinals have asked him to do that, but teams all over the league are doing it. Now, Ali was asked

Starting point is 00:16:02 about the risk saying this, that the risk is high. We just experienced it. It's a huge risk. And it's been talked about, even in the off season. It was a topic of discussion because there was an increase in them. The more catchers are evaluated on framing, the closer they're getting to the hitter to get that low pitch. And the stats prove it that Wilson Contreras has been a better receiving catcher this year. And part of the reason is that he's getting more strikes called for his pitchers. And part of the reason is because of this move closer to the plate. Now in Gould's article, he had a quote from Wilson saying that he thought the best way to frame is to get closer. So it's not like Wilson was reluctant to do this. Of course he's doing that. He wants to do anything he can for his team,

Starting point is 00:16:45 for his pitchers, to get the calls, to get the outs, to get the wins. And like I said earlier, it's it's not the Cardinals who invented this idea and are the only ones asking their catchers to do this. It's something that has spread across the league. And because of this, you are seeing more catchers interference calls each year. And it's not just on the Cardinals. It's on everybody. Remember earlier in the season when the Cardinals benefited from a couple of those calls. And I remember thinking to myself, like, this is so odd. Like how are we seeing this many catchers interference calls already in the season? Remember, it was like they had more catchers interference calls than home runs.

Starting point is 00:17:21 Like I was like, well, what's going on here? Well, now we know. Now we know why because all these catchers are scoching up to the plate and it's putting them closer to the back swing of hitters. Now, Gould threw out some catchers interference stats said as recently as 2002. There were fewer than 10 catcher interference calls in the majors. From 2012 to 2014, the yearly total did not surpass 25. There were 26 catcher interference calls this past April alone. Back in 2015, there are 33 catchers interference calls total in the season.

Starting point is 00:17:59 Contreras's on Tuesday night was the 33rd of this season already. In the span of just five years, the number of catchers interference calls in the majors has doubled. And in 2022, a new record was set with 74. That high was surpassed in 2023 with 96. 33 catchers interference calls in 1,058 games so far this year per MLB research coming into Tuesday. And last season, there were 96 catchers interference calls in 4,860 games. So that means that the catchers interference calls have come every 32 games this season compared to every 50.6 games in 2023. So more frequently, so it's not just the Cardinals who are taking this risk.

Starting point is 00:18:50 The whole league is doing it. The Cardinals are the first team to get severely burned by it. That's the only difference. Post-game starter, post-game, the start. or Miles Michael has had this to say about the way catchers are setting up and what he thinks the league could do to keep them safer because obviously everybody's bummed out because of Wilson. Miles said, I think there should be a line back there for the catchers and just have them stay behind the line. That way no one can get any closer than the next guy. And if you put them back there in a spot that is deemed safe, that might help guys.

Starting point is 00:19:27 And that makes sense that there could be like a little line that they cannot pass because no matter how far you read. even after like longer arms to reach closer to the plate like guys would still be safe you know you know how uh they have it you know they they study the arm length of like offensive line and stuff like that in the national football league like make it so you know what the average guy normally is back there there's obviously going to be huge dudes that are like six five six six or whatever who are catching but uh make it so it's more safe and that way nobody else can get closer. Maybe you see taller catchers instead to try to make that framing possible again. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Starting point is 00:20:16 But it's definitely something the league will have to look into because Wilson's injury, it could just be the beginning. You want to nip this in the bud as soon as possible to avoid some other problems. You don't want to see people get hurt. Also, since we're talking about limiting where catchers can be, maybe let's perhaps pay a little closer attention to where they're hitters are in the back of the box in a game that is decided by inches on a daily basis. The Cardinals, Wilson Contreras, and the fans all just learn the hard way that the inches that

Starting point is 00:20:46 everyone is crammed into behind home plate are just as important as all of the other inches out there on the field. So maybe let's tighten it up a little bit on how far back in the batterers box and outside of the batters box some of these hitters are getting. We're going to talk about the rest of the game, which spires. out of control and talk a little deeper about the Paul Goldschmidt struggles all next on on Cardinals. Baseball season is officially underway, so don't miss your chance to add your favorite players from the diamond in your prize picks entries. Now, strikeouts, RBIs, first inning runs,

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Starting point is 00:23:26 So following the Contreras injury, things just continue to go south for the Cardinals. They had that three to nothing lead, going into the fifth inning. Miles Michaels looked good for the first four innings. Like, you can't say that he didn't. And then the Mets just started tagging him left and right. You get two singles, then the three-run homer by Brandon Nemo, 440 feet longest home run at

Starting point is 00:23:48 at Bush Stadium so far this year, just crushed it to center field. Then there's a double. Then there's a single. Then another double. And just like that, Miles Michaelis' day is over. He gets pulled, ends up giving up six earned runs in this one. Look great, those first four innings, which leads me to believe that maybe he was tipping his pitches. And someone even pointed out, I don't know who it was, and I wish I could give you credit for it. But somebody on Twitter even said that former Cardinal Keith Hernandez, Cardinals Hall of Famer, Keith Hernandez, who does TV work for the Mets, was even talking about how Michaelis was tipping his pitches.

Starting point is 00:24:24 So if that's the case, let's fix that because he looked pretty good. And then he was getting killed. It reminded me a lot of the Kyle Gibson against the Marlins game recently, where the Marlins just seemed to know exactly what he was going to throw each and every time. And then when they figured out what was happening, and then he was really, really good. So I wonder if that was happening. I'm not trying to make an excuse. I'm just saying that if that is something that went down, that would explain why he was getting murdered.

Starting point is 00:24:51 Because, you know, I wasn't watching the Mets telecast. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it makes sense because these pitches weren't exactly the worst pitches in the world. You know, it wasn't that ethos curveball right over the heart of plate that was getting sheled. Like it was pitches, they were in the zone, but they were at the very bottom of the zone, maybe a little more towards the heart of the plate than you would like, but nothing that screams, oh my gosh, what a terrible pitch or anything like that. I genuinely, it just was like, wow, wow, they just keep ripping them.

Starting point is 00:25:21 So the six run fifth inning, put the Mets up for good. The Cardinals would get solo home runs from Alec Berlus. And again, he had a big night. Lars Neupar hit a solo shot, which was good to see. He had some good at bats last night, which is encouraging because he's been struggling. But it's not like the Cardinals didn't have their chances. bottom of the seventh huge one here base is loaded one out aranao and goldie coming up to the plate and again people like to blame ali marmal for almost everything out there and that's fine i'm not

Starting point is 00:25:50 going to be able to talk any of these guys out of it that not everything is ali's fall but when you have it set up and his lineup is set to go and i gave his lineup some grief yesterday i was like what what is all this but when you're two best hitters left after wilson got hurt which is Notto and Goldie, those are supposed to be your two best hitters, right? Your two big guns. And they come up in situations to win the game or tie the game or break it open. That's smart. That's how you want the lineup to fall.

Starting point is 00:26:23 And here's the situation where you got bases loaded one out. You're two best dudes up and they don't do anything. Nato pops out. And then Goldie strikes out. Threats over. Ninth inning. Down two after the newtinger, first and second, one out. Goldie strikes out again.

Starting point is 00:26:41 And it was on a terrible swing too. The pitch was like in the other batters box. And then Burleson strikes out. You know, you had a bat where he was fighting, but he strikes out. Games over. And I know you want to believe in your veterans. Like I know Ali wants to do that.

Starting point is 00:26:58 You want to back them up whenever you can. But it's time to have a serious conversation about whether or not Paul Goldschmidt being in the lineup every day is the best thing for this team. I mean, he is stranding small villages out there on the base pass each and every night. And he looks nothing like the Goldie that we've seen over the years. Like he's not even looks like the Goldie that had a bad year last year for, for, you know, Goldie type of production. Like he's taking fastballs for strikes.

Starting point is 00:27:27 Like ones that are right down the middle, like just taking them. And then he swings at garbage outside the zone, like way outside of the zone. His bat is slow. The contact is weak. If he makes contact at all. O for five last night, three strikeouts. Since that four hit day in Detroit where we were all like, uh-oh, is Goldie back?

Starting point is 00:27:49 We all got excited, right? O for his last 23. Hasn't had a hit yet in the month of May. He's now got a team leading 47 strikeouts in 35 games. Now, I'm going to do some math for you. 1.3 whiffs per game, which is on pace for 217 over a 162 game period. by far a career high. He's unrecognizable at the plate right now.

Starting point is 00:28:11 Among qualified first baseman in Major League Baseball, he leads the league in strikeouts. He's 22nd in batting average at 194. He is second to last in home runs. Third to last in RBIs. 22nd in OPS. 23rd in slugging. I hate to say it, but it's like the Adam Wainwright situation

Starting point is 00:28:30 from last year all over again. But instead with a hitter. where it appears that he has just fallen off that cliff. And I don't know if he's going to make his way back. You want to believe in him. You want to say, hold on, he'll get to it. But I don't know, man. Like, I'm not trying to be negative.

Starting point is 00:28:51 I'm just trying to be realistic about it. Maybe he's done. Maybe he's cooked. You know, Adam Wainwright had similar situation. He pitched really, really well. They bring him back. He pitches kind of good. And then he falls off at the end.

Starting point is 00:29:03 And then his last year, horrendous, right? Is that the same trajectory that I'm seeing out of Goldschmidt? MVP, tailing off a little bit, not a great ear, pretty bad at the end. And now he's never been the same and has looked like a shadow of himself of the former ballplayer that we've seen at the plate. Still getting it done defensively. I'm giving him a little credit there, but we're not paying you for your defense,

Starting point is 00:29:29 really, more for your offense. He's got the day off today, which is good. If memory serves, he normally has. well in Milwaukee, so I'm sure we'll see him back in the lineup over the weekend against the Brewers. But it's just, it's really rough watching him right now with the plate. Like nobody wants to see him struggle like this. It's just, it's tough. And you can see it in his face when he's up there. Like the confidence, there's nothing. There is nothing right now. And it doesn't matter where Ali puts him in the lineup. Third, fifth, sixth. He seems to always come up in a big spot and just

Starting point is 00:30:00 is not getting it done. He's not having productive at bats. Again, I'm not picking on the guy. These are just facts. And I'm just sharing them with you. A team star for offense cannot have a hole in the heart of the lineup. You've got to move him down. He's got to, if you're going to put him in there, he's got to be sixth or lower until he figures things out. If he figures things out at all. Sunny Gray on the mound today, they try to avoid the sweep. He's up against former Cardinals starter Jose Cantana, who pitched very, very well against the Cardinals in the last Mets Cardinals So we'll see what happens today. We want to believe in the sunny gray day that he's the guy. That's why he's your ace. They'll put a stop to the bleeding, if you will. But we'll see. We'll see. Thanks for making a lockdown cardinals. Your first listen every day if you haven't already. Please give us a follow on Twitter X at L.O underscore Cardinals and at JD Sports Radio. Like and subscribe on YouTube, help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. You guys are the best fans of baseball for a reason. And I will see you next time on lockdown.

Starting point is 00:30:56 Cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Why Did This Happen And Who's To Blame For The Contreras Injury

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