Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Will Contreras Be Back?

Starting point is 00:00:00 It was an unceremonious end of the season for St. Louis Cardinals' first baseman, Wilson Contreras. Could this actually be the end of his time with the Cardinals? We'll talk about it today on Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Carlis fans. I'm J.D. Hafford and I am your host for Lockedong Cardinals. part of the Locked-on Podcast Network covering your team every day. I'm a former national radio sports anchor, born and raised in St. Louis, Lifetime Cardinals fan. I bleed red, but not just because blood is red, but because I live and die for the Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:00:46 This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving you all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode being brought to you by five-hour energy, enough with boring, flavorless caffeine. It's time to get your caffeine, a flavor upgrade with five-hour energy shots. go to www.5hourenergy.com or Amazon today. On today's show, we're going to take a look at last night's dominating win by the Cardinals over the Brewers. How many times we've been able to say that this year? Not many. A lot of positives to take away from that win, including the start by Sunny Gray and Jordan Walker, stinging the hell out of the baseball.

Starting point is 00:01:18 But let's start with Wilson Contreras, who, as you know, was done for the season after going on the IL due to his right bicep strain. Now, unlike Mason Wynn, where the Cardinal said, I had no risk of him doing any more damage to the knee. He can play it through this. Wilson's injury was something different that actually could get worse. It was something that was a problem. Things could get really bad after that and more severe. So shutting him down was the right call for sure because we're talking about if he kept going,

Starting point is 00:01:49 you could start tearing the labrums and stuff like it. It gets bad. And it's an area that you don't want to go because then you just kind of lose all the strength in your shoulder and that's not a good thing for somebody pushing his mid 30s. So I'm glad that they shut down Wilson, just like I'm glad they shut down Mason win because even though that knee injury couldn't worse, and I still fear the damage that he could do to other parts of his body while he's compensating for whatever knee issues and pain he's dealing with. So good job by the Cardinals on both for not pushing it any longer than

Starting point is 00:02:21 they needed to be now. Again, this was a playoff situation and they were chasing a spot and they were right there on the verge. Maybe things would be different, but it's not. So right move in my opinion for both. Willie told reporters that he'd been dealing with this tightness since before September the 5th. Lately it's been getting a little tired and worse than before. So we're just trying to be careful.

Starting point is 00:02:42 Said he explained to the doctors what he was feeling and they just tried to take it day to day. But he's done. Done for the season. Overall, I'm pleased with what we got from Wilson Contreras. I think you should be too. because 2025 could have been a tough year for Willie, you know, making the position change from catcher to first base. That may not have gone over all that well, you know.

Starting point is 00:03:05 It could have went sideways quick where he was so worried about what's happening in first base where you're involved in so many more plays as far as, you know, infielders go, like you're constantly doing something that, you know, maybe that would derail from what we would get from him like offensively. But it worked out nicely on both sides, both offensively and defensively. Last season was, you know, such a disaster for him physically. You have the broken arm when he got hit by the bat and then the finger after that. But this year, he was relatively healthy for the most part, not having to catch anymore.

Starting point is 00:03:38 I'm guessing surely helped with that less wear and tear on the body, less demanding position over at first base. The biggest threat for injury really was other pitchers hitting him with the baseball. The dude got beaned over and over 23 times this year, which was tops in the National League and second only to Randy a Roserana and the American League in 27. The hitting numbers were solid. He set new career highs in quite a few categories, including runs scored, hits, doubles, RBIs, and total bases. At the beginning of the year, we always do the squad show where it's like the NL Central Preview and everybody, you know, everybody's like, all right, what's a good hot take that you got, what's going to happen with your team this year?

Starting point is 00:04:20 year. My hot take or bold take was that Will Scatreras would be the most productive first baseman and the NL Central in 2025. And for the most part, he fulfilled that prophecy. Michael Bush of the Cubs is right there with him in just about every category. But he also appeared in 12 more games than Willie has so far. But Willie finished at 257. This was his slash line, 257, 344, 447. The OPS at 791. Bush currently at 256, 336, 491 OPS, and 827. They're neck and neck, obviously, in slash lines. And pretty much every other baseball card stat you can pull up, they're right next to each other. You got runs, Willie 70, Bush at 71 hits.

Starting point is 00:05:04 Willie 126, Bush 127, doubles, Willie 31, Bush 22, triples, Willie 1, Bush 4, home runs, Willie 20, Bush 29. Big discrepancy on that one. extra base hits in total, Willie 52, Bush 55, RBIs, Willie 80, Bush 81, stolen bases, Willie five, Bush four. So offensively, you give the edge to Michael Bush, I think, and you can throw out the excuse that, hey, he's in a better lineup, he's, you know, at a better hitting ballpark at Wrigley Field compared to Bush Stadium, and that's fine. You could do that, but, you know, simply looking at the stats, The point is, I can't complain about what we got from Wilson Contreras offensively in 2025.

Starting point is 00:05:49 The defensive side was the side that you worried about as well because, you know, you're going to be skeptical. This is a catcher who rarely has played over at first base. He had done it before, but rarely. We know he's got good hands. We know he's got a great arm. But you're coming from Paul Goldschmidt at first base over the last few years, who one of the best of fits of first baseman in the league still is,

Starting point is 00:06:15 saved the Cardinals bacon many, many times with his ability to make stretches and plays and pick things over at first base. You're like, how's really going to do over there defensively? Is it going to be okay? And I think we can agree that he was more than adequate in 2025. Now, I'm unqualified in our first baseman. He finished second to the Braves Matt Olson, who's a two-time Gold Glove Award winner. So no slouch at all at first base.

Starting point is 00:06:41 But second to only Matt Olson in outs above average with six, currently tied with Spencer Steer of the Cincinnati Reds. And the Reds rave about the defensive capabilities of Spencer Steer. So if they're raving about him, maybe we should be giving Willie even more credit when he's tied with them for outs above average. Michael Bush a minus two in outs above average. So big discrepancy there. Defensive run saved.

Starting point is 00:07:06 He finished minus one while Bush is currently at zero. So nothing really to speak of there. And it says he made an even amount of throwing and fielding errors. It says he's got nine errors, four of them fielding, four of them throwing. So I don't know how that adds up. Maybe I'm missing something there. But the things that stood out to me was not fielding errors. It was the throwing errors.

Starting point is 00:07:32 Specifically, to throw to second base on possible double play balls, those seem to give him trouble. And it makes a lot of sense because that ain't easy. Like it is a very tough angle. It's like, all right, catcher throwing down to first base. And when the first base or the runner going down the line and they don't get into that little box that they're supposed to be in, although nobody ever calls it for whatever reason. I don't even know why the box is there.

Starting point is 00:07:56 But, you know, that throw down there? You know how the catcher has to like step outside or go inside the line? And that's how he makes the throw there. And it's a little more difficult over at first. base because you don't really have time to just go, hey, I'm going inside and then take a little crow step and go ahead and do that. You know, you get it and you got to fire it. And more times than not, that runner is going straight at second base or if you get a really smart runner and they know what angle that first base, what is at, they'll sometimes go a little bit outside of the baseline a little bit to make it even more worse as far as the angle goes or go inside if the first base foot was, excuse me, cheating in.

Starting point is 00:08:33 So it makes that throw very, very difficult. And I feel like Willie had some trouble with that this year. So if he cleans that up and gets better at that, I'm sure he'll work on it, you know, he's a professional, might shave a couple of those errors off next season, be even better over at first base. So you can argue that he was the best first baseman in the NL Central this year. You can make that argument. And that's pretty good, considering how things have gone for this team this season,

Starting point is 00:09:01 Willie moving positions. The question is, really, will he be back next season? It's something to think about because is it actually in the Cardinals' best interest? Do have him back next season? I've got some things I want to discuss about that on why and why not moving on or keeping him

Starting point is 00:09:19 is the smart play. We'll dive into that next on Locked on Cardinals. Caffeine just got a flavor upgrade. Five hour energy shots deliver tasty caffeine and 17 bold flavors. Each two ounce shot, the caffeine of a premium 12 ounce cup of coffee plus B vitamins and nutrients, zero sugar, zero crashes. What more do you need? And what I love most about the five-hour energy shots is they're

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Starting point is 00:11:13 you can follow the podcast on X at L0 underscore Cardinals. We're also on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram at Lockdown Cardinals as well. So after letting Paul Goldschmidt, future Hall of Famer probably, walk after last season, questions arose about who would end up taking over that first-based job. That was our first discussion. It was like, all right, there's no way they're re-signing Goldie, right? They're going to move on from that. But who are we going to put over there?

Starting point is 00:11:39 You had Alec Burleson, was certainly somebody in consideration. Lucan Baker was still on the 40-man roster at that time. But because of the depth at the catcher position, moving Wilson Contreras to first base made perfect sense, as long as he was up to do it. You know, we know he enjoys catching. He loves being part of that.

Starting point is 00:12:00 And it made sense. It also created another playing time crunch for the guys in the outfield because of Alec Berluson, because you already had Newt and Victor and Jordan Walker and Brendan Donovan, and then you got Burley. He still had Michael Ciani. Still people thinking about him, whether or not he should be on the team. And yeah, he's still in the organization. He's with Memphis.

Starting point is 00:12:23 Some thought Matt Coperniac might make a push in spring training after having a big year. The odd man out early on was actually Alec Burleson, if you remember. They were like, all right, well, our best defensive out. field doesn't include Alec Burleson. So we can use him as a DH, but he's not that great against lefty. So at the beginning of the year, Alec Berluson was not getting the everyday at bats. He was the odd guy out. But you look at his numbers now in the back-to-back years where he's put up two solid seasons, he's established himself as an everyday guy in your lineup. There's no way you're taking this dude out ever again. And currently hitting 289, which is the sixth best batting

Starting point is 00:13:07 average in the national league. Nobody, he just crept all of a sudden. You're like, wait, what? Yeah. Burleson is hit 289. Yeah, 18 home runs, 66 RBI is like, you're not benching that ever again, ever. The other guy that interests me that's on the roster that could also play first base, Yvonne Herrera. I brought this up multiple times. He struggles as a catcher. Those, those struggles have been well documented. He's not a very good thrower of the ball down to second base or third base, not all that great behind the plate as far as blocking things. Very good hitter, though, a guy that you want in your lineup every day as well.

Starting point is 00:13:47 Cardo's got a lot of depth at catcher. Pedro Pahez, obviously, has turned things around offensively recently, so that's been good, but we know how much the pitching staff enjoys him behind the plate. Jimmy Crooks is getting that look this month, along with other top prospects, Leonardo Bernal and Raynella Rodriguez. Crooks, Bernal, Rodriguez, those are three of your top. six prospects in the organization, according to MLB pipeline. You've also got Blaze Jordan, who they acquired in the Stephen Matt's deal,

Starting point is 00:14:16 who plays first and is at AAA batting 271 with 18 home runs and 96 RBIs this season. Now, he did split time at AA where he played 44 games and AAA, where he's logged 83 games, but it's kind of crazy how identical his stats are from the 44 that he played at AA, then the. games that he played at AAA with Boston's farm system. And then what he's done since he's been at Memphis, the batting average isn't where you want it because it's at like 196, but the power, the RBIs, all that stuff, it's almost identical. So, and he's only 22 years old. So keep that in mind. He doesn't have to be rushed up to the big leagues, but he's there.

Starting point is 00:14:56 We know the Cardinals aren't actively trying to spend more money than they need to. Wilson still has two years remaining on his current deal. Next year is at 18 and then 18 and a half, plus a club option for 17 and a half in 2028. So you can see why the Cardinals would listen to offers if teams called about them. They'd be like, okay, well, but you also got to remember that Wilson has a new trade clause. So if he doesn't want to leave, he ain't going anywhere. It doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to. But after three straight disappointing seasons for the St. Louis Cardinals record-wise,

Starting point is 00:15:34 Two of them with Willie here, I wonder if he would be more interested in going to a team that is closer to competing for a world championship than the Cardinals are. You could say that about him, Nolan Aronado, and Sunny Gray. You know, guys, you realize that this is a rebuild and, you know, we love you guys. We think you guys are cool and your special guys and we love having you around. But you're at a point in your career where, you know, you've still got some trade value and you want to be here. while this happens. A team would get Wilson Contreras with those years under control. You get two more years.

Starting point is 00:16:12 It's not like he's in a walk year at a price that I think is pretty darn fair because if you go to what first baseman are making these days, Pete Alonzo, 30 million, Vladdy, 28 and a half, Harper at 27 and a half, Freddie Freeman, 22.7. Matt Olson at 22, Christian Walker at 20. I mean, you got contraris locked in there at 18. and 18 and a half. Josh Naylor's going to be a free agent this year.

Starting point is 00:16:38 He's going to blow past him. But there's not a lot of other, like when you look at the other first baseman in the league and you look at their production, Spencer Torkelson is still relatively cheap. Obviously, he's under a million still. So Michael Bush obviously is cheap. Spencer Steer is pretty cheap. But if somebody's looking for a veteran first baseman, they could do much worse. than Wilson Contreras right now.

Starting point is 00:17:07 So you get him under those couple of years that he still got left. He's 33, but he's not like 36, 37 years old where he's really on the back nine of the career. You know, he's just kind of a on the back nine, but he's just passed. He's probably at whole 10 or 11. He's still got some worth here. It really comes down to what Willie wants, which is the dangerous part about giving out no trade is to veterans, especially during a time when your team is not in a competitive championship window, which makes me think that John Moseilock, when he signed Sunny Gray and when he signed

Starting point is 00:17:44 Wilson and he trers, he didn't foresee it being as bad as it has gotten or he wouldn't have done that. At least I don't think he would have. I think most smarter than we give him credit for Willie, Sunny Gray, Nolan, I don't, they're all in the same boat this offseason. And as we did it last off season, it's like, well, what do you guys want to do? You want to be year you want to go. If you want to stay, the cardals really don't have any power to say no. You can bench them and say, well, we're just not going to play you, but that's not going to happen. We know that's not going to happen. So essentially, we're stuck in the same spot as they were last offseason. We are at the mercy of these veterans, minus Miles Michaelis, whose contract expires

Starting point is 00:18:25 after the season and has pitched really well in this last like four outings. And now it's like, Oh, boy. Are they going to try to re-sign them? Are they going to give them a one-year deal or something? Personally, I don't think this team can actually afford to trade Willie away. There would be a massive hole in the lineup on a team that is already offensively challenged. It has deficiencies on the offensive side. But what do you think?

Starting point is 00:18:56 What sort of deal would it take to move Willie if he gave you the okay to do so? you know, would it have to be for Major League arms or would you be willing to go down the prospect route again, knowing that they're in this rebuild and they're not that much closer to being all that competitive, which I still feel like they're closer than people think. You just need a couple of guys to progress better. But I don't know, let me know in the comments section. I'm always thinking glass-ass full. So maybe I'm blinded by my love for the Cardinals. But speaking to Sunny Gray, let's talk about his start on Friday night and the win on Friday because that was fun to watch. That was fun baseball for 99.5% of the time, base running not included.

Starting point is 00:19:43 But for most of it, it was really, really fun. So let's get into that next on Lockdown Cardinals. Most people can't name all their financial accounts or even what they're worth, whether it's 401Ks, properties, investments. And when you don't have the full picture, you end up leaving money. on the table and that's not something you want to do. That's why there is Monarch money. It's an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean, easy-to-use interface on your laptop or your phone. Monarch is built for people with busy lives. So if you put off organizing your finances, then Monarch is for you. Monarch does the heavy lifting. You can link all your

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Starting point is 00:20:56 That's 50% off your first year at monarchmoney.com with code locked on MLB. Thanks for making Locked on Cardinals. Your first listen every day for your second list and check out the Locked on MLB Game Night show. Every game, every night until a World Series champion is Crown. Get local analysis. But on a national scale, you can find MLB game night on the Locked on MLB YouTube channel or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Now, there hasn't been a whole lot of fun nights at Bush Stadium in the second half of the season. Not a lot.

Starting point is 00:21:30 But Friday was a very good night. It was very good. It was fun to watch Cardinal baseball on Friday night. There was a buzz. There was an energy. Adam Wainwright was in the house. They did do a small little tribute for John Moseylock in his final series. But there was a nice buzz in the ballpark.

Starting point is 00:21:50 It was good. And it helps when the team on the field is playing well, which they did for the most part. Again, minus the base running stuff that I'm like, what, what are we doing? Why are we doing these things? They've been doing them all year too. where they're trying to, like, steal, I don't know, I don't get it. I guess when you're offensively challenged like you are, you're trying to come up with any way that you can do things.

Starting point is 00:22:12 But I don't know, they look silly doing it on Friday. But anyway, the good stuff, though, which is what the rest of this game was about, like sunny gray, solid on Friday. I use the word gem to describe it online. But I think I just kind of got caught up in the moment a little because nine hits is hardly gem worthy. But the fact that the brewers didn't do much with those nine hits and that sunny and the defense were able to work around them

Starting point is 00:22:34 without any damage being done is the real story here. Sunny allowed just one run, solo home run, because that's what Sunny does these days. It's now 24 Taters given up by him on the year, which continues to set his new career high. He is second on the club to Miles Michaelis, who's got 26th. They rank fourth and sixth in the National League

Starting point is 00:22:53 and home runs given up, which is never a good thing. But at the same time, he does go six sittings. He strikes out seven, team leading the 13th quality start. Cool little nugget from John Denton at MLB.com. Cardinals approved a 15 and 5 at Bush Stadium and Sunny Gray's St. Louis starts the most wins in the major leagues by a pitcher at his home ballpark. So that's something. The cards 15 home wins with Gray starting are tied for the second most in franchise history, trailing only Matt Morris, who had 16 at Bush Stadium 2 back in 2001. After the game, Sunny brought up how similar his outing on Friday was to what happened against the Brewers with him on the mound last week when he faced them. But things were a little bit different. was a there was a big change in this one. And he pointed out saying the difference this time is that I actually finished the sixth inning and I learned from last week. There were some huge plays along the way. You're really able to put it away when you can come back in that sixth and put up a zero.

Starting point is 00:23:48 My process throughout the week was just to be better if I get myself in that sixth inning situation again. This world is crazy that five days later I got myself in that exact same situation. This time I got through it. offensively, the Cardinals were able to get things going by not swinging the bat. Just don't swing because Jacob Mizorowski, the moos, as they call him, extremely wild in this one. He was all over the place. And they took advantage of it by letting him walk three to go along with a couple of hits. And they finally busted things open on that basis loaded double by Nolan Aronado or rip one down the line after having an excellent eight pitch of bat. That was a fun at bat to see where, you.

Starting point is 00:24:31 You could tell Nolan was on, was on it. Like he was seeing the ball well and count went full. He files two pitches off on opposite corners, by the way, which is not easy before lacing that double down the line. Alec Furleson, another three hit nine. He's bet four, 23 over his last seven games in 314 over his last 30, which, as I mentioned earlier, bumped his average to 289, which is now sixth best in the national league. Everyone in the starting lineup had a hit, at least one hit. But the guy I was most excited about getting his hits was Jordan Walker, who I continue to root for,

Starting point is 00:25:07 who I continue to wish the best for because I want to see him and Nolan Gorman succeed. It would be huge for this franchise if both of them could work out. I think Jordan has a better chance of sticking around and doing it in a cardinal uniform compared to Nolan Gorman, who's starting to get a little bit older, and we're seeing that. infield crunch where he's on the bench again. But Jordan Walker scalded his two hits on Friday. Absolutely scalded them. First one at 118 miles per hour.

Starting point is 00:25:42 Second one at 114. Now he did come up with the bases loaded earlier in the game and nobody out. Birds were up one of nothing at the time. Huge chance to really do some damage and put a dent in things. And he grounded into a double play. On the surface, that sucks, right? You're like, oh, double play. But he didn't strike out.

Starting point is 00:26:03 He actually put the ball in play instead of going down swinging or watching strike three go by. And that's a positive for a guy who's had trouble putting the ball in play. So doing that instead of striking out, that's a positive. He got the runner in from third base. It cost us two outs. But it made the score two to nothing. You got a run in. That was the job.

Starting point is 00:26:25 Get one of these guys in. Got that job done. Sure, you want more. I know that. But those three at bats, plus he flew out sharply to center, 103 off the bat. When he did that earlier, it tells me that Jordan was also seeing the ball pretty good, just like Aronado. So good job, Jordan Walker, keep it up.

Starting point is 00:26:42 We're all rooting for you, bro. You also get three shoutout endings from Gordon Grisepo and Ryan Fernandez after Sonny left. Gricefo's breaking ball was filthy. Gordo looked good last night. That was fun to watch. And I'm anxious to see his role expand in the bullpen for next year. I don't think they're going to use him as a starter. I feel like they enjoy him as a relief pitcher.

Starting point is 00:27:09 So I feel like that's probably where he's going to be. I would imagine if they're going to move somebody into the rotation, it's starting to seem more and more like it would be a Kyle Leahy type of thing. And then Grussepo could take over his role. But I was very impressed with what I saw there. And then with Ryan Fernandez, you're just trying to get positive results out of them. You're trying to get them out there and not get shelved.

Starting point is 00:27:31 Gave up a couple of hits. They weren't exactly hit all that hard. It wasn't anything special, but he didn't allow a run. So we'll take it. Good job, Rhino. So great starts of the final series of the season at home. Miles Michaelis on the bump today. Then Sunday you got Matthew Libertzor.

Starting point is 00:27:46 Cardle's trailing the season series against Milwaukee, who still have the best record in Major League Baseball. They're five and six against them so far this year. so a chance to tie them today and then beat them. You know, if they get a sweep, you win the season series against them, which is that's good, just like they did against the Reds recently, who we're now pushing for a wild card spot. So also, before we close out, shout out to the Springfield Cardinals,

Starting point is 00:28:14 going to the Texas League Championship Series. Their best of three finals against Midland will begin on Sunday in Springfield. So good luck to you guys. Teams looking for its first championship. titles in this 2012. So best of luck there. Thanks for making Lockedong Cardinals. your first listen every day for your second listen. Obviously check out MLB Game Night. The boys will be back on there this evening covering everything that's going on in Major League Baseball. If you haven't already, give us follow on X at L.O. underscore Cardinals and at JD Sports

Starting point is 00:28:42 Radio, TikTok, Instagram at Lockdown Cardinals. We're on YouTube as well. If you haven't subscribed yet, please give us a subscription. And it really helps the channel, channel grow when you like and subscribe. So if you like Cardinal content, we'll be with you the entire offseason. We're not going anywhere. We're still here. We're still here. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on Locked on Cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Will Contreras Be Back?

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