Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Winter Warm Up Recap! Cardinals Have Something To Prove

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

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The winter warm up has come and gone, and we're going to take a look back at what we've learned from the players and from John Moseilock and everything that went on with winter warmup. We're going to recap it today with Thomas Covey for Redbird Brants.com on today's episode of Lockedong Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm Jady Hafford and I am your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockedon. podcast network covering your team every day. You can follow me on Twitter rex at JD Sports Radio as well as the podcast at L.O. underscore Cardinals. We do want to thank those of you who make Locktown Cardinals your first listen every day.

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So our 2025 winter warmup has ended, and we heard from almost everyone that you would want to hear from that is related to what's going on with the Cardinals right now, outside of Nolan Aronado, really. and to help us sit through everything that went down. Our friend Thomas Govain from Redbird branch.com is joining us. Thomas, how are you? I know it's currently two degrees in St. Louis. It's a whopping three right now in Kansas City. Your load today, I look this up because I wanted to be prepared for you coming in. Minus 7 is the load today in Kansas City.

Why do we do this to ourselves, Thomas? It was brutal warm in the car this morning. I think we lived in the Midwest for the people. Isn't that one of the rules that we have here? I guess. I don't know. I question myself every time, every winter. Even in the suburb, too, when it's like 102 in the human beings where it's at,

I'm like, why do I do this? There's so many better places on this planet that I can live, and I don't do it, and I don't know why. It's baffling. I think we get 30 good days a year. Out of 365, we get 30 good ones. Yeah, we don't really give a spring or a fall anymore. more. It just kind of goes from summer to winter, hot, cold, and it's miserable. But we're all

dealing with it right now. So do your best to stay warm out there, whichever part of the Midwest or country that you're living in. If you're somewhere more tropical, good for you. Don't rub it in our faces because we're like icicles right now everywhere we're at. So moving on to what's going on with the St. Louis Cardinals right now. The winter warm up was this weekend. And each day you kind of had almost like a theme, really, of who talked to the media and whatnoty on each day. And I covered a lot of stuff that John Moseilac spoke about on Monday, but we didn't have you, obviously, on Monday. And I would like to get your thoughts on things that you heard from John Moseilock,

what he said about trading Nolan Aronado in the direction of the team. Is there anything you want to add to what John Moseilac had to say on day one? No, I think you hit it there, especially Aronado being the focus of the rest of the off season. He did say that it's not necessarily to make another trade if they can't move Nado. And then the DeWitts backed that up yesterday as well. So the fact that this is probably the roster that we're going to see, at least for the first half of the season going into spring training,

I think that's pretty telling of how the off season has been. And Moseilock built on that with his comments the other day too. Yeah. And we heard from Bill DeWitt, and he was like, It's not like Aronado's begging for a trade, but I mean, isn't he? Like, aren't we past the point of no return where it's not like he can be like, ah, screw it. I'm going to play for the Cardinals.

Like, don't you feel like we've passed that point? Like, it's just something's got to get done, right? Yeah, absolutely. There's a way he can say, I'm here, I'm ready to play. And if he comes out with the chip on his shoulder and he just goes off for the first few months, I think that's enough of a of a makeup of this offseason. The relationship just feels so broken at this point between the team, Aronado, Mosei Locke, all parties involved. Yeah, it's like they just want different things.

Again, nobody's mad at each other, which is something that's an interesting dynamic about this because Aronado's not mad at the Cardinals. He'd wish they had won more, and he blames himself for part of that, just the way Paul Goldschmidt did. But he's not like angry at the Cardinals. And the Cardinals aren't like, well, you've been a piece of crap. and we don't want you around these parts anymore. You're a terrible person. It's nothing like that. Like, everybody's got mutual respect.

They're just trying to do what's best for each other. They both understand it. It's the strangest breakup. It's like, I still love you, man, but I know we got to separate. It's in the best interest of everybody involved. It's just become a lot more difficult. And I know people get tired of me repeating this. But when that Houston Astros deal fell through and it didn't work, I was like,

we are so screwed right now. We are so screwed because that was the, it was the happy spot for everybody. It seemed like everybody was going to go to a good spot. The only thing that was weird was that the Astros weren't on Nato's reported list, which was a little shocking because I thought Houston was a good point. I don't know. It seems like they're just kind of stuck in this holding pattern until the Alex

Bregman decision ever comes down. Pick a team, dude. Let's go. Let's move on their lives. I don't know. Move on all that things with him. But yeah, that's really what's going on with Nato. It's just it's very strange because you've never seen such polite people

try to break up with each other in your lives. Like it's unbelievable. Yeah, it's and the fact that it's just going to keep on going and we're not going to have conclusion until past spring training, probably. We're a month out, dude. Or a Nato. He could finish out his contract with the Cardinals for all we know and this whole offseason could have been a wash.

It's just, it's weird. It's very strange. It's very, it's very cardinals like because the way Mo talked about things, you know, it's like he's talking about both sides of his mouth because he's like, well, we know we got to do this. But I'm just saying we may not do this. It's like there's no path with it. It's just like we don't know what to do anymore. We're kind of screwed.

So, but one thing that I don't believe that we're screwed in is what the future of this team looks like. I'm pretty darn excited about the youth and the future of this franchise, although a lot of people will tell you. that it's not that bright, but I do see it differently. I believe you do as well, Thomas. So we're going to dive into what the new younger core of this team is going to be riding with in 2025. We'll talk about them next on Lockdown Cardinals. Did Rocket Money help you find any subscriptions that you forgot about or that you were paying for twice? Because that's definitely something that I dealt with.

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Rocketmoney.com slash locked on. Thank you again for making Locked on Cardinals your first list in every day. Leave your comments on YouTube as well as on Twitter X. Anytime you want, your feedback is always welcome. I encourage. We are going to hit Thomas up here with a couple of questions from you, the listeners today. We've got a few of them lined up. So if you've got something you want to send our way, by all means, get them to us.

The youth movement in 2025 is something I'm excited for, Thomas, because I do believe that the Cardinals have not just like, it's okay, talent. I feel like there's a few guys in here that are elite talent that can help leave this team out of this, you know, mediocrity that they've sat in over the last couple seasons. And if things go well, you know, I feel like they can be a better team than a lot of the people around this country are giving them credit for. What are your thoughts from day two of the winter warmup where we got to hear from some of these guys that are going to be the leaders in the clubhouse moving forward, guys like Mason Wynn and Quinn Matthews and Jordan Walker and a whole lot more.

What do you think about? Yeah, I love the day two stuff. There are a couple of things that I took away from it. One, Mason, Wynn is awesome and he deserves every bit of St. Louis super, like we need to plaster his face everywhere for the next decade, hopefully. Yeah. So I think he was awesome. His interviews, his hockey sweater that he was wearing. It was really cool to see all that.

I actually loved the Quinn Matthews interview, primarily because he's just a quirky dude. And I had no clue about that. My gosh. His crypto. That is that. Anytime I see an athlete or talk to an athlete and they come off like that, I'm like, what? I don't expect it. You always expect him to have like that jock persona, and he is not that guy.

No, he's kind of a nerd. Yeah. He's like a top 50 prospect in baseball. And he says, I wanted to be an investment banker. Actually, what is this? And who doesn't? You know, who doesn't strive for something? Yeah, 80 hours a week. So he, his personalities but intrigued me there. Jordan Walker and Victor Scott the second, they impressed me just with their drive and the offseason work. I think Victor Scott could be a future leader. Derek Gould had a piece about him wanting to be a resource for J.J. Weatherholt as well. So two young guys pairing up there in the spring. Those four guys made me really excited for the future.

But then you throw in Nolan Gorman, still young, and has potential Tink Hents is there. Andre Plante and Michael McGree. Like there's a lot of young, talented players, like you said, on the Cardinals. And there's only more to come behind them, too. There's not much of a reason to be worried about the youth movement, in my mind, at least. Yeah. And they're preparing you for the fact that, hey, you got to understand that a lot of these guys are, you know, ages 21 to 20. and some of these guys are going to be getting a bigger taste of the major league level for the first time.

And so there's going to be growing pains, which is why they're telling you like, look, but we want these guys to learn this now instead of having them, you know, kind of half ass it and sit on the bench and learn from veterans. They're like, no, no, no, we're going to throw them in the fire. You know, first off, it's better financially. It's a lot easier to do that. And if we're not winning by overpaying people, which is what they did last year, you know, overpaying for guys like. you know, a Kyle Gibson and a Lance Lynn and a Paul Goldschmidt. If you're not going to get more, you know, production out of those guys for, you know, more bang for your buck, then what's the point where you feel like some of these guys could

probably give you the same numbers? And I keep coming back to the, you know, the Paul Goldsman stuff because when I talked that, they're locked on hosts, that's all they want to talk about is Aronado and Paul Goldschmidt. And I'm just kind of like, guys, if you take away their names, the production that I'm getting from these guys is not matching up with what they were supposed to be. So losing Paul Goldschmidt, the human being sucks, you know, because we all loved him in the clubhouse. And obviously, he's a great guy in the community.

And it will continue to be. I mean, I'm sure he'll be a knockout for everybody in New York as well. But he wasn't that guy anymore. You know, I, you don't think you can get the same production that you got from Paul Goldsmith this year out of one of the younger guys, too, and let them learn and get experience at the same time. So I'm just, I understand what they're doing. I get it.

And I know it's upsetting to some fans because it's different than what this team has done. But it gives me more hope instead of the same old, same old. It's one of the reasons why this whole reset thing has kind of been a little bit of a bummer because they haven't been able to do it the way they wanted to do it because, you know, Mo was handing out no trade clauses to everybody. So everybody's got one that, you know, had some trade value. and now we're stuck with a few of these guys. And it's not a totally bad thing, but it's just going to slow the process of moving on from this type of thinking that they've done the last, you know, what, 20 years?

It's just going to slow it down a little bit, which is a little bit of a bummer. But you brought up Victor Scott. I didn't want to ask you about this. Victor Scott, do you think he's on this roster right away? Because outfield's kind of full, dude. Yeah, I can see him being a AAA guy, which stinks.

because he's exciting, he's fast, he's young, he's athletic. Yeah, but I mean, you look at the outfields. We've got New Bar, Walker, and Siani's starting already. We've got Brendan Donovan, who's probably going to have to get some reps out there, especially if Arnado's stays. Alec Berluson could be put in the corner outfield. There's not much room for Victor Scott the second. I do think he still needs some seasoning down in the minors,

especially with all these additional instructors and coaches that can help him out down there. Yeah, absolutely. Coperniac is another guy that's probably going to be a bench guy up at the major league. So it's just not a lot of room for him because, again, you want these guys to play. And if they're just going to sit around, it's not doing them any good, man. They need to be out in the field. They need to be practicing their arts and getting it all together. So that's the unfortunate part about Victor's because I love the guy. And I would love to see his dynamic speed a part of this offense, building offense and making things happen instead of just sitting back and waiting.

And unfortunately, I think we're going to have to wait a little while to see him back at the Major League. level. But again, things happen. Lars Newport gets hurt every year. Lars Newport is probably going to get hurt at some point. And he's going to come up and he's going to do some. Ciani, can he make it through a full season? You know, last year was his rookie year and he didn't make it through. So, uh, and what if things are really bad for Siani? Like, what if he's not the guy? He was this past year. There's a certain chance that that could happen, you know, like, uh, there's a reason why, you know, then we were able to pull him off of the Reds, you know. It wasn't like he was this elite guy and it, that's why it shocked everybody,

like how good he was last year. So can he be that same guy? We don't know. But so there's definitely ways to get Victor into the lineup at some point. But I agree with you. I think probably at the beginning of this season, barring any injuries, it's probably going to have to start at AAA Memphis. Let's talk about the veterans because we did hear from Sunny Gray, Wilson Contreras. We brought up New Bar, Bernard Donovan. They all spoke at winter warm up. And I, uh, I, love the attitudes that these guys had where they, they seem a little pissed off that people think that the Cardinals are just going to be crap in 2025. So we'll discuss our feelings about them next on Lockdown Cardinals. For a big upsets, too, game winning drives the NFL playoffs are

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We encourage you to find locked on MLB, baseball guru Sully, brings you a daily blend of humor in baseball, keeping you updated on all the teams during the offseason, even our quiet St. Louis Cardinals, find Lockt on MLB on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. We got Thomas Coveyne from Redbird Rance.com joining us here today. kind of recapping things and thoughts on what went down at winter warm up over the last three days. Thomas, many have already written off the Cardinals in 2025. In fact, in some circles, they've been picked to finish last in the division, which to me is hilarious because they act like everybody's gone.

It's unbelievable to me that you're going to tell me that losing Paul Goldschmidt and his production from last year, plus guys like Kittridge, Gibson, Lynn, those are so such high impact moves that the Cardinals are going to fall to last place and just be, you know, just terrible in 2025. I find it so funny that people are thinking that's what's going to happen.

There are plenty of veterans that are still on this team who are quite good. I'm talking about Brendan Donovan and Sunny Gray and Wilson Contreras and Lars Dupar. These guys are. still here. These guys are still here. They have not been replaced by backup AA players, no matter what these people try to make you believe. So, uh, and you can tell in the interviews that they had over the last, uh, couple of days at winter warm up that they're kind of annoyed by the

fact that, you know, pundits have written them off already in 2025 that they spoke at length this week and about how they feel about the team in 2025. What are some of the, uh, takeaways that you have from things that these veterans said this weekend that gives you hope here in the upcoming season. Yeah, there was a lot of fire to him, especially Wilson Contreras and Sunny Gray. They were taking this as like, let's fight back. Let's get these people that are calling us down and bring us out. Like, let's show them what we have. And like you said, we have a legitimate roster still.

The young guys have prospect pedigree. A couple of them, Palante and Mason Wynn have shown that they can play at the highest level. and then you throw in the role players behind them as well. It's still legitimate roster still, and the fire behind the veterans just tells me that that's going to bleed down into the rest of the team. And we might see a hungry Cardinals team with the chip on their shoulders, which I don't know.

We've just kind of floated on our laurels for the last few years. And look at all these talented players we have. We don't need to have that. To have this coming into the season is a pretty nice change of pace in my mind. Yeah. And it might be something that like you mentioned, it might be because we, for so many years, it's just been, hey, Cardinals cream of the crop in the division, one of the best teams in the National League. And now people aren't talking about that. And people are disappointed in what the Cardinals have done or haven't done.

And, you know, they're taking it personally. And I kind of dig that. And I like the fact that they believe in what the franchise is doing. Again, Sunny Gray, Wilson, they have the option. If they wanted to be traded and not be apart and bought. so poorly of what they've got around them and personnel that they could have gotten the hell out of Dodge. They didn't have to be here. They could be traded. People would take them. And they both were like, I want to be here. You mentioned Wilson Contreras, like him talking like, he's like, no, man, it's,

I'm not me to run away from a challenge. I'm going to stand up and I'm going to, and I love that. I mean, when did we ever heard that from our other leaders in like Goldie and Aranato? Like, I love that there's a vocal guy in this clubhouse, got to keep him healthy, obviously, and hopefully not having him behind the plate getting beat up on by J.D. Martinez will help that this coming season in 2025. That's really the whole big.

It's like I love the fact that he has got all that fire. I love hearing Sunny Gray say, no, I wanted to be here for a reason. And this is where our family wants to be. And like, where there's so many great things that are going on here, it's almost like they're surprised by how bad people are talking about. Yeah, absolutely. There's two different types of underdogs in the sport. You can have

the teams that know they're bad, it don't quite care, but then you have the teams that everybody else is looking at as bad, but they have an energy and a fire, and they want to prove them wrong. And I think the Cardinals are in the second bucket pretty heavily right now. Yeah, yeah. This could be the kick in the pants that maybe this franchise in general needs to have. And hearing the young guys talk this weekend as well. I could see Jordan Walker was something that really impressed me during his press conference. And he was talking about, you know, the different things that he's already worked on with a new hitting coach, Brant Brown. And he was like in depth and stuff. And if you remember him in his first couple of years, we forget how young Jordan Walker still is, like even though he's been

around a couple years. And you could just tell you knew he was, he was very mature for his age before. But watching him speak now, there's confidence in what he's talking about. He doesn't seem like a kid anymore. Like he looks like a guy that's ready to take on a bigger leadership role with this team, which is something they desperately need out of him because he's supposed to be one of the guys for this squad. As you mentioned, Mason Wynn, for the next decade. It was supposed to be Walker, not when it was going to lead this team. And it didn't work out that way. Lucky for us, Wynn stepped up. But I'm not right in Jordan Walker off by any means. I loved hearing what he had to say this weekend. Yeah, it was real cerebral. He broke down every

aspect of his hitting motion. Yeah, it was great to hear. Super nerdy stuff. But if you are listening to January, you're a nerd just like us. So you want to hear it. I encourage you if you get a chance to check out some of the video feed from the different media portions of winter warm up where Jordan was talking about, talking about his hand placement stuff. Like I said, super nerdy stuff. But it's little things like that that can make all the difference. And it's good that he's getting, you know, fresh takes from the new coaches, you know,

that Bram Brown is working with him and Nolan Gorman and stuff. And hopefully they figure out why they aren't producing the way that everyone thought they would. Because you got to remember these guys, you know, Jordan Walker was the number one right-handed hitting prospect in all of baseball, not that long ago. And you can't tell me that the talent has just gone. It's there. It's there. He's got to unlock it a little bit better.

And hopefully that'll happen. All right. So we got some questions for you, Thomas, from the, comment section on YouTube. And I want to throw some things at you real quick. Todd and St. Louis asked if Nolan Aronado doesn't get traded, which pitcher do you think gets move first? Eric Fetty or Stephen Mats?

I'd say Eric Fetty. I think you and I talked about this recently. Fettie's talent level plus his contract make him much easier to move than Stephen Mats. I would prefer it to be Stephen Mats, but I don't know if we can move. in a deal that fits both the Cardinals and the receiving team while also getting a decent package in return. So I would say Eric Fetty would be the first one to go between those two, if not those days. And Mo reiterated this weekend that like trading, starting pitching is absolutely something he does not want to do. And I went to an in-depth yesterday about like even the Dodgers with all their capable arms at how this ungodly rotation has been built, two of them dudes are going to get hurt.

It just is going to happen. It happens to almost every team. and the Cardinals kind of got lucky last year that they didn't deal with as many major injuries with their starting rotation. So, you know, it makes sense. And it would be nice to have Stephen Matt still is kind of that sixth swing man, if you will, if he doesn't end up being one of the main five in the starting rotation. So I don't want to trade any of them, really. No, keep them.

Yeah, Heather in South County asked, what player has to have a better year in 2025? Jordan Walker or Nolan Gorman for this team to actually compete? probably Jordan Walker for a few reasons. One, he's got a better prospect pedigree. He was supposed to be that guy like you were saying who sits three or four in the lineup and just mashes all day, all year. I think Gorman, we don't quite need as much to be as good. A, he can be easily traded,

and I think fans would look on that better than if we're to trade Jordan Walker because fans have kind of given up on Nolan Gorman. So they may see a trade of him as like, okay, cool, wash your hands clean, move on. But I think Jordan Walker is the bat that we need in the heart of the lineup that we haven't been able to produce since Oscar Tavares. Yeah, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. You know, when we talk about, you know, Walker's an outfielder now. Depth on the infield is something that the Cardinals are kind of all right at when you think about what's coming up brought up J.J. Weatherholt earlier.

How far away from the big leagues is he? Because, you know, he's one of the top prospects in all of baseball, obviously a mature kid, college guy. so it's not like, you know, he's 18 trying to figure things out and just left home for the first time. No, this is a guy who's on the fast track to get to the major leagues. You know, you don't want to have him just, you know, sitting around double A and triple A for two, three years if you don't need to, like, bring them up. Bring them up. So obviously Thomas DeJC, somebody who has done everything you could ask for at the minor league level. It's time for him to do it in the pros.

So there is some depth there. and if Gorman doesn't pan out for whatever reason, like you said, he's a guy that you can move on from if you need to, and you probably wouldn't do as much damage. Scott Hazelwood asked. Matthew Libertor said this weekend he's trading to be a starter. Is this really the smartest thing to do for him in this team, Thomas? Thoughts on Matthew Liberty. I was, when I saw that, I was like, oh, God, here we go. Do we have to do this?

I guess we have to do this. What are your thoughts on this? Training to be a starter, good or bad idea for Matthew? Yeah, I just wrote that he needs to stay in the bullpen. We need a high leverage lefty. He did extraordinarily well last year in that role. He just hasn't had his touch as a starter. As far as better for him, he needs to be a starting pitcher for his finances.

However, his team doesn't need him to be a starting pitcher. So I think he's bullpen probably is where he fits. Yeah, that's where I like him just because, like you said, having somebody like that back there is awesome. It's like when you can pull that off, like it was like, you know, Miller with Cleveland and the Yankees all those years. I mean, that's the kind of guy he reminds me of, not quite be as filthy as he was, but, you know,

he's that big lefty who can give you two innings out of the bullpen and a dominant two winnings. The quote that he did say that I remember he was like, it's just a lot easier to train for five innings and then come to one, then trained to be a one inning guy in the bullpen and then try to grab it back up to five. So I get kind of the philosophy of it, but I really am hoping they aren't tinkering with the idea of having him as a rotation guy at the outset of camp or anything.

Like, I think he was great in the bullpen. Why mess with a good thing, right? Yeah, I agree. We talk about this with Helsley, where Helsie's like, maybe I could be a No, stop, stop. I actually tells me to be a starter, but that's just me. See, I can't get on board with that at this point in this career. But, hey, that's why we talk about these things.

So, all right. So, Thomas, Redbirdrance.com, what are some stories that you've been working on and things that people need to go and read? I just had one go up this morning. Bernie Michless inspired me. He wrote something last week about the all Walt Jockity team. I wrote an all John Moseilock team. Just to look back over the last 18 years of players, he's acquired.

So that one's up. And then I wrote about Quinn Matthews and his quirkiness as well. All right. Well, go check those out at Redbird Rance.com and, you know, give some love to all the writers over there because it's a very fun website. And if you're a Cardinals fan, it should be bookmarked already. Thomas, as always, we appreciate your time, my friend. All right. Thank you, J.D.

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