Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Anthony Castonzo retirement analysis with IndyStar's Jim Ayello

Episode Date: January 14, 2021

On today's episode, Jim Ayello of the Indianapolis Star joins the show to discuss breaking news about Colts left tackle Anthony Castonzo retiring from the NFL after 10 seasons. What happens next for Indy on the offensive line?After an illustrious career with the Colts spanning a decade, how will we all remember Castonzo? Also, this news shouldn't come as a surprise. How will Indy address their now massive need at left tackle: free agency, draft, or Quenton Nelson moving over?Closing out the show, Jim and Evan discuss for a few minutes a very important offseason upcoming for GM Chris Ballard. How will Ballard maneuver an offseason where possibly five of the most important positions in football are in flux? Also, what does the future hold for Jacob Eason in Indy after his rookie season behind Philip Rivers and Jacoby Brissett? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello everybody, welcome back to the latest episode of Locked On Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Today's always your host, Evan Seder. I'm joined by Jim Aiello, the Colts B-Ref from the Indianapolis Star. We're here today about 24 hours after the news happened to talk through Anthony Costanzo's retirement. Not surprising at all, honestly, Jim. We thought this was going to happen maybe last year when you seriously considered it. After an injury-riddled season with a rib injury, MCL injury, and even some other small ones as well.

Not surprising this is going to happen with Costanzo. His contract was non-guaranteed next year, so really just a one-plus-one deal, and he decided to hang it up after 10 years with the Colts. Jim, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. Yeah, like you said, it was kind of a – yeah, not a shocking day, but it happened fast. You know, he got it done I think before the offseason really got going

for the Colts before they had to make any major decisions. So, in a way, that's good. The Colts kind of know what they have in front of them now. Let's talk through Costanza's career, Jim. I mean, it was a rough start for Costanza in the first part of his career. He allowed a lot of sacks, but in the last five seasons or so, he's been a consistent top 10, maybe even top five left tackle by some people in the NFL. And he really came to his own over the final three years of his career in 2018, 2019, and 2020. Looking back on Costanza's career, Jim, I mean, what's your overall thoughts on him? Possibly one of the most underrated Colts of all time. Yeah, it's funny that early part of his career, too.

And to be honest with everybody listening, too, I didn't cover the Colts for that long, or as far back as his career goes, 2011 when he was drafted, which is, I mean, it's kind of crazy. That was two regimes ago. It was Bill Pullian that drafted him. But, you know, obviously put a lot of time into researching who he was and how he did. And I had a nice long conversation last year with Joe Thomas,

the Cleveland Browns left tackle, 10-time All-Pro, probably going to be a Hall of Famer. And I talked to him about Anthony Costanzo for a while. And he said, you know what? I don all pro, probably going to be a Hall of Famer. And I talked to him about Anthony Costanzo for a while, and he said, you know what, I don't think – I think he got kind of a bad rap early in his career. Like, he did give up some sacks. He's like, but you also have to understand,

he was playing with a young quarterback who held onto the ball a long time, an Andrew Luck. And he played in a Bruce Arians offense with seven-step drops that asked the quarterback to hold onto the ball for a long time. And so he said, you know, he definitely improved, but maybe he wasn't as bad as everybody thought he was. And that actually, you know, he was probably pretty good when he was younger. So definitely, like you said, he had a rough start to his career,

but I don't think it was as rough as people thought. I mean, at least that's what Joe Thomas said. And again, when it comes to offensive line, I kind of tend to treat whatever Joe Thomas says as gospel. And then, yeah, as you said in the past few years, I mean, Frank Reich, Frank Reich says a lot of nice things about a lot of, a lot of people, like he's a really nice guy and he says nice things about his players, but he doesn't always kind of pay them the highest compliments either. Like he'll, he'll, you know, he knows when to hold

back and for Anthony Castaldo, he didn't, you know, he talked about him last year in the last couple of years. Like this guy is becoming legitimately one of the best left tackles in the NFLfl i consider him one of the best he was kind of heartbroken last year that he wasn't a pro bowler um and anthony casanzo never was a pro bowler never was an all pro um not not not by ap i think he was actually a 2019 um pro football focus uh all pro uh second team i think but um i think frank reich was hoping he'd get the recognition he deserved before he walked away. But as you said, he's one of those guys that, again, one of the things that I thought was always kind of cool that Frank Reich said about him was like, you don't understand how important it is as a game planner to just look at your left tackle and be like, okay, that's locked down. Like, I don't have to really give him help at all. He can just handle his

business. Now, again, against some great pass rushers, they'd always have to help. They'd have to help him out sometimes or something like that. But for the most part, he knew he could look at Anthony Costanzo and say, okay, that guy can handle his business on the left side. We don't have to worry about it. Let's just, you know, we can go to the other part of game planning. And that freed him up to do a lot of creative things. And so that was one of the things Anthony Costanzo did. And then inside the locker room, again, I wouldn't say he was one of the most vocal leaders or anything like that, but the guys that played on the line with him loved him. Quentin Nelson loved him.

Ryan Kelly loved him. They loved spending time with him. He is a really smart and well-thought-out guy, obsessed with technique and doing the things in the offseason to perfect his body, to make it perfect for playing left tackle in the NFL. So he just had a lot of good insight, helped guys like Costanzo and I'm sorry, helps guys like Quentin Nelson and Mark Lewinsky and Braden Smith,

like get accustomed to playing in the NFL. Just so many good things that Anthony Costanzo did for the Colts over his years, along with being just a, you know, like personally, I can say I only knew him for the last few years, but a really good guy to talk to like really interesting well thought out and just a nice a nice overall human speaking of what you mentioned the last part there Jim just the way he's wired I think a lot of Colts fans he's got really good friends Andrew Luck who's similarly wired this way like football's not everything for him honestly like looking at

his career and like guys like Andrew Whitworth with the Rams he's playing almost till 40 at left tackle yeah honestly you could say Costanzo probably could play another three or four years at a higher level if you wanted to but obviously football like I mentioned isn't his only passion I mean what was your overall thoughts on Costanzo just hanging up early because it just it's very similar to what Andrew Luck did obviously Luck was marred by injuries throughout his career but Costanzo very much wired the same. He's very much in the technology, a lot of different stuff that's off the football field a little bit. Absolutely. No, I mean, that's a great point.

And I think the only difference between the two was that, you know, and everybody that watched Andrew Luck's press conference, and, you know, I'm sorry to bring up bad memories for Colts fans, but it was painful, right? And I wrote about this, you know, for Costanzo, but with Luck it was something was right? You know, and I wrote about this, you know, for Costanzo, but with Luck, it was something was being ripped away. Something was being torn away from him that he loved. And then it just, there was this cycle of pain

that he couldn't get out of. And it just ruined so much of what he loved about football. And that was really sad. That was maybe the saddest part about it all. It was just that so much of that kind of that love that Andrew Luck had for football was gone. The good part about Anthony Costanzo is that so much of that kind of that love that andrew luck had for for football was gone i that the good part about anthony costanzo is that's not what happened right like he he got to leave on his own terms he got to he got to do the things he wanted to do

he played in the nfl for 10 years he said he said it before he said it again yesterday like if you would have told me if you would have told me i was playing in the nfl for 10 years after getting my butt kicked by dwight freeney in my first rookie training camp i would have told me I was playing in the NFL for 10 years after getting my butt kicked by Dwight Freeney in my first rookie training camp, I would have told you you were crazy. And he did. And he played, like we talked about it before, he played at a high level. And then, as you mentioned, he is like Andrew Luck in a way that they are wired differently. Football isn't everything to him. And that's not to say he didn't put his mind, body, and soul into football for the past 25 years, because he did.

I mean, he poured everything he had into it, but he also has other interests and he also, there's, you know, there's another phase of his life that he can't wait to explore. I thought it was very funny just listening to him talk about one of the things he was listening or looking forward to about retirement was having a different relationship with food. He's not a guy who naturally weighs close to 300 pounds. He had to eat like crazy to keep that weight on to play the position. Now he gets to eat food to enjoy food. He gets to eat it because he likes it. He doesn't have to eat it like a pack on a ton of calories to play the position. He gets to kind of just be a normal guy. And I know that's one thing that he's very much looking forward to in his retired life. You're unique and so are your taxes. TurboTax Live has experienced tax experts who listen to you, learn about your unique tax

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Into a TurboTax Live. File with the help of an expert or let an expert file for you. Yeah, and the next question I have for you is about Costanza. Looking forward to just what's ahead for the Colts at left tackle. I mean, honestly, I'm glad I can mention the Colts were able to get this right away. We didn't hear about Costanza coming back until around the combine last year. Now really three days after the season ended,

we now know Costanza is not back left tackle. I mean, what options in the culture and explore that I have to imagine everything's on the table here. Yeah. And I think even last year, I think honestly the reason they didn't, and I think what they wanted to do with Costanza was announced that he was

coming back and here's his new contract. And I think they were probably just hammering honestly the reason they didn't announce, I think what they wanted to do with Costanzo was announce that he was coming back and here's his new contract. And I think they were probably just hammering out the deals of the contract. So, yeah, as you mentioned, they have options, right? They have options. The one is the draft. They can go get somebody. First, second round, you would imagine,

just because it's such a big hole that they have, they have Quentin Nelson, who Frank Reich admitted the other day was, yeah, they'll consider him playing left tackle just because of how athletic he is and how, and how I guess athletic and versatile he is and how smart he is. He can do, we can play multiple positions. We saw him play a little left tackle. Anthony Costanzo said he's played some scout team left tackle and used to, he used to make Anthony watch him and say, Hey, how am I set?

What am I doing? And Anthony would say, yeah, that's pretty good. It actually looks not bad. So there's that option. I think Braden Smith is something they'll consider as well. Now, I'm not saying they'll move him to left tackle, but they have him at right tackle. Frank Reich has said that they still put the highest premium

on the left versus the right. So you have a very, very talented player, a guy that, another one that Colts, you know, Frank Reich and some of his teammates thought was a pro bowler this year, didn't get that recognition, but has played at a really high level, especially in his third year here. And so he's probably an option. And then there's the free agent market, where there are some interesting names, a guy like Trent Williams.

He's 32 years old, was kind of, got traded away from Washington to San Francisco Francisco and played really, really well there. Um, and so I know, I think I saw a quote from him the other day that said he's looking forward to testing the market. There's guys like Russell Okung. Uh, there's a couple of good right tack, right tackles on the market. So again, depending on what you want to do with Braden, or if you wanted to move one of those guys to left tackle, they all kinds of options to, to explore, uh, potentially replacing Anthony Costanzo. And again, knowing that you have to do that at the beginning of the offseason does give them,

I wouldn't say a head start, but it gives them a good shot at being able to do it. What's interesting to me, honestly, Jim, is with how when now this Colts team seems to be, Phillip Rivers is still on board, at least for now. We don't know what the future holds for him, but you have Quentin Nelson, Darius Leonard, DeForest Buckner, all entering their primes, the foundation of this Colts team, where you really don't want to waste those prime years for them. And you have to wonder, I mean, honestly, what's your assessment on Quentin Nelson moving to left tackle?

You're going to pay him, I imagine, in the next year or two, he's going to be the highest paid offensive lineman in NFL history, either way, whether he's a guard or a left tackle. I mean, what do you personally think about moving him over to left tackle? The most memory, a left guard left guard's the exact same. Just move out one spot a little bit, kick slide more often than you pull. I mean, do you think that's a legit option to Colter and explore as Quentin Nelson left tackle?

I think they'll talk about it, but I don't love it as a – and again, I don't think he can't do it. I think he can't, and I think he could probably do it well. I don't know if he could do it at an all-pro level like he plays guard, but again, I don't think it's without merit. Now, my point is why take an all-pro out of an all-pro position? He's the best or one of the best offensive linemen in all of football at what he does.

He is a focal point at what they do in the running game. I mean, they run behind him constantly. They pull him to the right all the time to run behind him. They use him for a lot what they do in the running game. I mean, they run behind him constantly. They pull, they pull him to the right all the time, like to run behind him. They use him for a lot of different things in the running game. And I don't know that you want to take that away. I mean, again, you have the off season to, to reconfigure the way you do things, but I just, the guard spot, the left guard spot, and they've made it this way. Frank Reich has game plan this way, but it's critically important to the running game in the Indianapolis Colts offense. And again, Quentin Nelson does that at an all-pro level.

I'm not sure you want to kind of take him out of that spot. My preferred option, and I'm going to ask Chris Ballard this when we talk to him for kind of his, you know, he does that State of the Colts press conference at the end of every year, and I'm going to ask him this specifically, is the preferred option to keep him where he is and find somebody else to play left tackle. Because I think that's probably,

that's how I feel about it. I think the best way to the Colts to do is to keep him where he's at his best. That, and that keeps the entire offensive line doing what they do best. So again, I, to me,

Braden Smith stays at right tackle. Quinton also stays at left guard and you just find another left tackle and plug him in to what is already a very good offensive line. I think that should be the number one option for the Colts this year. Totally agree with you. I think that just makes the most sense. You maybe have one of the best left guards of all time. I would not just mess with that kind of chemistry.

And that's kind of potential in production he's already shown you at left guard. Same goes for Braden Smith at right tackle this year, allowed zero sacks. So that brings me to the question. know you mentioned trent williams the left tackle russell coon or other options at free agency but knowing how much chris power loves the draft he loves the trenches and building long term and at those positions you have to imagine if they don't trade for a quarterback which honestly we don't know right now just do it philip rivers i think right now for costanza retired jim you have to think left tackle first round number 21 overall is probably where we're leaning right now yeah I think that's probably true again yeah you're

right if you have Phillip Rivers and again this all depends on I mean we all know quarterback most important position right so and they haven't they don't have the future there yet they even if Rivers comes back he's not the future he's a stopgap so if Chris Ballard and the Colts and Frank Reich fall in love with a prospect that is a gettable prospect, if that's Trey Lance, if that's Mac Jones, again, I'm trying to name the bottom tier first round quarterbacks because I don't think guys like Fields or Wilson or obviously Trevor Lawrence are going to be available. So if they fall in love with one of those guys like Lance or Jones

or somebody else in the first round, I think they go get them because you do that when you believe in a quarterback like that, you know, outside of that, I'm right there with you. I think you have to kind of find that, that left tackle the future and solidify that spot. And again, I mean, I, it's, it's probably the slightly bigger need for me. Well, it's definitely the bigger need. I just, you know, I would love to see what this defense could do with a great edge rusher. I don't know if you find that at 21.

But again, like I said, you're right. I think most likely scenario is if Rivers comes back, they don't absolutely fall in love with a quarterback, then yeah, I think they go with a left tackle in the first round. But you know, say they do, say they do like a quarterback in the first round, you can find good offensive linemen in the second. I mean, Braden Smith was found in the second. So again, you don't have to necessarily throw that first pick at, um, at a left tackle, but again, I'm with you. It definitely has to be a high pick. And, and again, if it's not a high pick, then you have to find somebody in free agency. I mean, you have to address this with a really good player because again, offensive line play is

the strength of the Colts and you want to keep it that way. That's the way they thrive is a solid running game and protecting their quarterback. Those are the two things they do well and make them so successful. Moving off Costanza for a moment, and this just adds to the overall bulletin board of how many needs the Colts have in 2021 for their offseason. Left tackle, quarterback of the future, edge rusher like you mentioned. You can even throw in a wide receiver in there as well or a tight end. A lot of things, even cornerback. If Xavier Rhodeses is outpricing himself which he honestly could be

he's probably the best corner in the market this year in free agency he cannot be coming back in 2021 which puts him in a really tough position a cornerback just how difficult is this obviously gonna be for chris bowden maneuver jimmy because if rivers let's say retires if he doesn't come back this is we've been saying almost every year now but it feels like every year now it keeps getting bigger and bigger like 2021 started to be a massive year for chris bowden and honestly five of the most important positions absolutely so you mentioned all those things and i just want to add one little wrinkle is okay so you you know you've extended ryan kelly you're probably as you mentioned you're going to throw an incredible amount of money at quentin nelson

um you're probably going to throw an incredible amount of money at Quentin Nelson. You're probably going to throw an incredible amount of money at Braden Smith because young right tackles, they just command a ton of money. You've already given a crazy amount of money, and again, in a good way. I'm not saying it's overpaid, to DeForest Buckner. You've already extended Grover Stewart, and you're probably going to have to throw a ridiculous amount of money at Darius Leonard. Suddenly, you don't have the cap flexibility that Chris Ballard is accustomed to having for the first, first four years of his tenure as a, you know, as Colts GM. So that's, you know, you talk about all these needs that for sure. Absolutely. But they have, I wouldn't say a reckoning coming.

They're going to, they're in a good cap position now, but they know what's coming when you draft as well as they do, you're going to have to pay these guys. So, and that, that is coming for them so i i definitely think that's going to be interesting but to answer your question i guess was yes they have um they have some major questions i i my my colleague at the star joel erickson wrote that this might be his toughest offseason just because they like as you mentioned they are kind of in a win now mode and they and they have but they have questions at some of the biggest most important positions offensively quarterback left tackle defensively edge uh at corner again in the cover too i don't think it's the corner you can kind of hide the corner a little um and

it's not as important as some other spots uh but it's still very important i guess i think the good thing about xavier rhodes as you alluded to is that he didn't play so well in minnesota when they were asking to do a lot more man um and he played a lot better. And he played some man coverage here, obviously, and played okay. But he kind of thrived playing in that cover two, cover three zones that the Colts were playing. So I think that might limit his market, at least in terms of the teams that are going to be interested in him. I could be wrong. That's just a guess. Because like you said, he might still be the best corner on the market. But I definitely think that the style of defense in which he thrived in maybe limits who's targeting him.

But again, I keep kind of diverging from what you asked. Yeah, this is a hugely important offseason to the Colts' future and for Chris Ballard kind of putting them on the right track. Does he find the quarterback of the future? Does he find the left tackle of the future? A lot of decisions to try to keep them in win-now mode, but also to try to keep them a constant contender, which is what he always wanted to do.

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Again, that's LOCKEDON for the promo code L-O-C-K-E-D-O-N to receive a 50% welcome bonus for your first deposit. Colts fans, BetOnline is your online sportsbook expert. Speaking of guys, really, their future's up in the air. There's a lot of key free agents. Xavier Rhodes, that we just mentioned. Anthony Costanzo, obviously just retired, so left tackle's a big need. But Phillip Rivers is a free agent. Jacoby Brissett's a free agent. Marlon Mack, T.Y. Hilton, Anthony Walker, Justin Houston, Danico Autry. All these key contributors on both sides of the football for the Colts are free agents this upcoming offseason, Jim. I mean, where do you lean right now for them? Because like you mentioned, all these draft picks from 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020,

they're going to be on the pipeline the next or three years especially the 2018 class is going to break the bank for leonard and nelson at their positions you have to imagine it's going to be very tough decisions i'm playing for these grades in-house for the colts because they probably only have one more year of this amount of cash base yeah and again i so you can't spend a lot on retaining these guys and so let's just talk about one target area then. So look at the defensive line. You already have your interior set. You got Buckner and Grover, and they're both paid.

So that's great. They're really, really good. Maybe one of the best interior defensive, you know, starting defensive lines in football. But on the edge, what are you doing? Are you going to pay Danico Autry? I mean, he had, I put out the numbers the other day, really great three-year tenure with the Colts,

especially because he made about $6 million a year. But, I mean, 20 sacks, 26 tackles for loss, 100 tackles, playing multiple positions in that defense. Like, that's really great. But now he's going to be 31 next year. Are you expecting him to do that again? Okay, now you've got eight sacks or eight and a half sacks out of Justin Houston. Or no, it was eight sacks.

I'm sorry, eight sacks out of Justin Houston. Now, that was pretty good edge production. But what does that mean? Is 10 million dollars a year and do you expect him to do that at 32 okay well what's in the pipeline can you trust Kimoko Ture to stay healthy and deliver he didn't you haven't seen it in almost a year and a half now about like you know the way he was you know that Kansas City game before he got hurt again he came back and played this year but I don't think he flashed the potential that everybody saw in that game. Ben Banigou was inactive for seven games this year. So Tyquan Lewis had a good season, but again, are you feeling confident about starting him on the edge?

On defensive line, that's where there are a ton of questions and kind of puts the whole picture into perspective for the Colts is that if you throw a bunch of money at If you throw a bunch of money at these, the veterans to try to stay solid at those spots, you could be in trouble down the line. And again, maybe you won't be able to keep these guys because they're, they're going to get more money on the mark on the open market or for more years than the Colts are willing to commit. So it's going to be really, really tough. And again, I think particularly defensive line is really interesting and a cornerback,

as we talked about, just because Rocky uh didn't really have a great year either he was kind of i mean he was better than some people said but i think it was maybe mild progress over over what he did his rookie season and then you don't have a lot else uh behind him so there are places where you're gonna have to pay veterans to be good and then but you can't pay them too much because, as we've been talking about, they have a ton of huge contracts coming up. So it's just going to be a really complicated offseason for, again, Chris Ballard trying to balance the future

but also remain in contention. Last one I had for you, Jim. I appreciate the time, as always. I know your colleague in the Colts media, Zach Kiefer, the athletic, put out a story on Jacob Eason. I know a lot of Colts fans, I imagine your Twitter mentions it the same as mine, just about asking about him as a quarterback of the future. And he wrote down in his story that the Colts internally believe he's a year away from continuing for the starting job.

Let's say in 2021, Rivers retires. They don't believe that he's that guy just yet. From what you've heard or from what you've seen personally, what is your overall assessment of Jacob Eason through a year of his career? Yeah, I wish I had a better answer for you, but we just haven't seen him we didn't see him playing the preseason you see him in practice sometimes but like with covid rules we didn't go to we didn't get to go to practice nearly as much as we got to go um last time so we saw him playing a little bit in the in the uh those kind of preseason games the scrimmages that they did and a little

bit in training camp but like and you know I watched multiple times as he did those kind of those really complex drills with Marcus Brady before the, before game started, he looks good. But again, I don't know. Again, I think a lot of quarterbacks look good when they're, you know, when they're not getting any pressure and they're just throwing routes and it's just them and receivers and their quarterback coach. I don't think we know. I think he, I think. I think the reports out of the Colts were good. I mean, from the people I've talked to,

they said he's done everything he's supposed to be doing. He's listening to two really, really smart quarterbacks in Phillip Rivers and Jacoby Brissett. He's asking all the right questions. He's showing up on time. He's doing all the stuff that you're supposed to do as a third-string young quarterback. But again, does that mean he's the quarterback of the future?

I don't think there's any way to really know that until you see him in some game action. He got a few more snaps because he was mostly running – I'm sorry, he wasn't even running the scout team. That was mostly Jacoby Brissett. He got to do that a little bit more at the end of the year, and Frank Reich said he liked what he saw. But again, that's kind of – we talked about this at the very beginning.

Frank Reich doesn't really say a lot of negative things about people. So I think it's a little early to say what we know about Jacob Eason. Again, we'll ask Chris Ballard about it. I actually think the more intriguing question is, is he going to be your backup next year? Is that – Chris Ballard and the Colts have put a very high premium on having a really good, reliable backup quarterback during his tenure. And that has mostly been Jacoby Brissett,

but he's paid him a lot of money. He kept Jacoby Brissett when he was under a big contract. And he's always said, I sleep better at night knowing I have a good backup quarterback. Is Jacob Eason that guy now? Are you going to trust him to be in that position next season? And so that's, to me, that's the most important question going into 2020 is if if they

don't see him as a reliable option as the as the number two quarterback going into i'm sorry 2021 then i don't know that he's going to be contending for the starting job in 2022 so let's see what they say about where he is where he fits into their plan next year yeah it's gonna be so interesting to see what happens with jacob eason and jim i always appreciate talking with you bring so much insight and thanks for for going in-depth on Nicky Stanzo and looking ahead a little bit to the offseason here. You guys can go follow him on Twitter if you're not already at Jim Aiello. And always go read him.

Let's do his work as well over at the Annapolis Star. Jim, appreciate the time. Of course, man. Thanks for having me.