Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Carson Wentz Trade Crossover Special with Locked On Eagles

Episode Date: February 20, 2021

In our latest Locked On Crossover Special, Evan Sidery of Locked On Colts and Louie DiBiase of Locked On Eagles dive deep into the Carson Wentz trade. Why did Philadelphia do this? Why was Indy so intent on bringing Wentz aboard?The Wentz era in Philly was tumultuous. Louie explains all that went wrong around Wentz, plus why he sees him succeeding with the Colts. Reuniting with Frank Reich will be the best thing for Wentz's career.All of this, plus so much more, in a jam-packed crossover edition here on the Locked On Podcast Network! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello everybody, welcome back into Locked On Colts. It's a special crossover episode here. Locked On Colts, Locked On Eagles here at the end of the week to recap the blockbuster trade that was Carson Wentz going from Philadelphia to Indianapolis in exchange for a third round pick in this year's draft plus conditional second round pick in a 2022 draft. More likely than not, it's going to be a first round pick next year.

We're joined by Louie DiBiase of Locked On Eagles. I'm Evan Sider, the host of Locked On Colts. Louie, how you doing today, man? Evan, I wish I could say I'm doing great, but this trade pretty much ruined my week. So I'm one of the big Carson Wentz supporters on Eagles Twitter and through the podcast. Listeners know that for the past three years now.

So I wish I could say I was feeling good about this team right now, but I think the Colts got a stud quarterback, so I think you guys should be excited. Yeah, let me ask you about that because, like you said, I've been reading a lot of Eagles fans' reactions to this trade. They're like, oh, we're glad to get him out of town. Let's go to Jalen Hurts and start a new era. Wentz wasn't a good quarterback,

but the Colts fan reaction has been almost opposite. Like, it's why not roll the dice on a guy who was almost an MVP in 2017, get him back with his former coach in Frank Reich? It's been a polar opposite reaction from both fan bases so far, and you're kind of on the opposite end from the Eagles' perspective. So I want to get your thoughts on this, Louie. Go a little bit in-depth as to why you think Kirsten Wentz is a little bit better than many Eagles fans really believe.

Yeah, so I think this is par for the course, Evan, when a player of this caliber, or at least of this importance to a franchise, is traded. I think a lot of fans, not to say they're not having genuine opinions about this, but I think when a guy is dealt, you know, it's team first. And so you try to convince yourself that the guy you have is better than the guy that just left. And I think when Carson Wentz decided he didn't want to be in Philly anymore,

a lot of fans were like, well, good, we don't want you there, right? It's just, you know, that's par for the course with defensive fans. And, you know, yes, he was, to me me one of the worst, if not the worst starting quarterback in 2020. And a lot of that is on him, that regression. I think mechanics were extremely sloppy. He held onto the ball way too much. So there was a lot of things that he could have corrected himself. But the way I look at it is that 2020 was an outlier for me. Maybe 2017 was as well, but for four or five years, you had a quarterback that was at least top 15, oftentimes top 10, and there were a couple moments in his career where he had top five greatness in him,

the entire 2017 season, the end of the 2019 season as well. And so when you look at what Wentz had to overcome in five years, for a player of that talent, I've never seen anyone have to deal with what he did. So when you point to why this quarterback that was on a historic pace when it comes to statistical, you know, efficiency, if that's actually a word, but you know, to go from that to maybe the biggest drop off in the history of the NFL in 2020, I think there's things to point at that more so have to do with the organization and how they built around Carson Wentz or failed to. And I think when you look at where he was in 2019 at the end of the season, winning four straight games, winning the NFC East,

how do you explain what happened after that? I think it's the Jalen Hurts pick. I don't want to say the Hurts pick was the only thing that broke Wentz. It was a culmination of that, of just trying to live up to the expectations that Nick Foles set in 2017 and in 2018. It was the fact that he had to overcome really bad offenses, not the offensive line for the majority of his career, but the skill position groups were very weak throughout Wentz's career. There were injuries on both sides of the ball at a historic rate. Wentz had his own individual injuries to deal with. And not

to mention, he was already in an extremely competitive, unforgiving market when it comes to quarterbacks. Just ask Donovan McNabb. So you just add up all these things and the pressure just finally caved in on Wentz. Now he goes to Indy. It's a hell of a support system. Frank Wright got the best out of him in 2017. It's a fresh start. He doesn't have to live up to that statue of Nick Foles outside of Lincoln Financial Field. He doesn't have to look behind his shoulder seeing Jalen Hurts. So there is a giant rant for you, Evan, about what went wrong. But I really think it was more self-inflicted within the Eagles organization why this happened the way it did. I think Carson Wentz deserves some blame, but mostly I think it's on general manager Howie Roseman.

Yeah, I know you put out a video for Locked On Today when the trade happened about really the quote took away from your video was the infrastructure failure around Carson Wentz. It just really seems like to me, honestly, Louie, that you bring up a good point that Carson Wentz really was a, I mean, you see the measurables, you see the talent in the first couple years of his career. Over the last couple years, you see really a ragtag group of wide receivers, offensive line. Really, the injuries have really ravaged that Eagles team, and the depth behind them was just not there. I know the Colts and their team have been really prioritizing

depth behind them as far as building a true 53-man roster, but for the Eagles, it just seemed like the depth wasn't there the last couple years, and it kind of caught up with them a little bit. Is that fair to say that really the talent base around Wentz just really wasn't up to par for a franchise quarterback? Yeah. And look, Carson Wentz is a player that can elevate that for four or five years. And I don't even want to say the 2017 offense wasn't talented. You know, he's had his benefits, excuse me. He's had some good things on that offense. He's had a star tight end combination of Zach Ertz and Dallas Goddard. He had an elite offensive line, again, like I said earlier,

for four or five years. So it wasn't all bad, but when you consistently led the league or you were top five in drops every year and you did not have stars at the wide receiver position that could make Wentz look good and he had to deal with just pretty lackluster personnel at receiver and often running back too, he didn't have a star running back until Miles Sanders in 2019 and 2020. So he had to elevate a lot and it wasn't just that too, the injuries too he had to overcome. So when you constantly have to elevate an offense and produce outside of structure, eventually it's

going to be built into you and he's already an aggressive, gunslinging quarterback. When you add on all of this pressure to elevate, that's where some of the tendencies to hold onto the ball too long came from in 2020 and trying to play hero ball 24-7 because Evan, honestly, a lot of the time, the majority of the time, he had to play hero ball for this team to ever have a chance. So it's going to be great to see him in Indianapolis. I'm happy for him that he's not always going to have to play hero ball. That's what makes Carson Wentz great is that ability to win outside of structure and be aggressive and make plays when you think no play can be made. Right. But at the same time, he's not going to feel the need to do that 24 seven Frank Reich is going to

put him in positions to thrive, I think. So I'm excited for Carson. Honestly, we've seen the super highs of Carson Wentz in 2017. It's his super lows of Carson Wentz in 2020. I know you've been covering the Eagles for the last couple of years, Louie on the podcast. What have you seen from the 2018, 2019 version of Carson Wentz? Cause I think many people believe he might fall in the middle of that.

Yeah. So maybe he never gets back to 2017, Evan. And I think that's okay though, for the Colts. I think you saw this roster in Indianapolis is ready to compete in the AFC and you saw what they could do even with an older Phillip Rivers last year. So if you can just get the Carson Wentz of 2018 or 2019,

that I would say the majority of those seasons was top 14-ish. He was above the top half of the starting quarterbacks in the league. And then there were moments where, again, he was a top five, top 10 guy, especially at the end of 2019. So if you can get him back to that player, maybe not even MVP Wentz in 2017, if you can get him back to just 2018, 2019 Carson, I think that's a recipe for the Colts to go deep into the playoffs. So I think that's more so what you should expect.

I think 2020 was more of an outlier. I think 2017 was more of an outlier. You're going to get those outlier seasons at times, but the majority of Carson's career, I think for the rest of his career will be more like 2018 and 2019. I think that's, I mean, I don't know if you'd agree. I think that's the majority of quarterbacks. That's their paths, right? Even guys like Aaron Rodgers, they have a couple MVP seasons sprinkled in there, but then for the majority of it, they're consistently, you know, top five, top 10, and then they blow up for a season. But then they go back to it all evens out. So that's the way I think you should expect Carson to be in Indianapolis

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morning and under 20 minutes. Subscribe to the Locked On Today podcast for regular podcasts. We saw a report today, I believe it was Adam Schefter on a local radio station in Philadelphia talking about the relationship with Doug Peterson and Wentz. It seemed like that relationship really fractured at the final points of the 2020 season. What was your thoughts on the situation where, according to Schefter today, Louie, he mentioned that Wentz and Peterson barely talked for like eight, nine, ten weeks at a time during the season. That's obviously a big reason why Wentz left Philadelphia. It felt like really spurred by the organization and why he wanted to get out of town there.

What was it like from your perspective watching the Peterson-Wentz relationship kind of crumble over this 2020 season? Yeah, so I thought it was at one of its high points at the end of 2019, and then it really did crumble in 2020. But I don't – again, I think it wasn't good for sure between Doug and between Carson. Carson really got stubborn. He really wasn't listening to hard coaching. He wasn't really responding to Doug Peterson that much. But I don't think it had more, I think it more had to do together so much on the football field on game day. But I think Carson lost trust and he lost that feeling of loyalty to this organization.

When you lose those two things in any professional relationship or personal, you have nothing. And so I think Carson, how he drafted Jalen Hurts and then Wentz had to overcome again injuries in terrible offensive play at the wide receiver position. Carson Wentz lost faith in this organization and it started with Howie Roseman. And it was again building up though. It wasn't just Jalen Hurts. It was everything about Nick Foles. The minute he won a Super Bowl, Wentz felt like he would probably never be able to live up to that. And he had anonymous sources talking bad about him. Teammates that went through the media to criticize him.

There was just so much that Wentz dealt with that eventually it was just like anybody after five years putting up with that would have broke too. I mean, so you guys kind of saw it with Andrew Luck in a different way, based more so on personnel and bad rosters throughout his career. But I think when you add up that much pressure on anybody's shoulders, it's maybe too much to overcome for anybody. From the Frank Reich perspective with this, Louis, I mean, from the Frank Reich perspective, the Colts perspective, what's your overall thoughts on Wentz landing in Indianapolis? It seems like, from all indications, it's going to be a great fit

as far as the coach and player goes, the infrastructure of the offensive line, the defense, the young playmakers, Jonathan Taylor at the running game as well. Overall, from your side of it, Louie, what's your thoughts on Wentz now in Indy where there's a real chance it could be a solid roll of the dice for the Colts and he could revive his career in Indy? Yeah, I think it's a perfect fit. I think, again, you saw what Wentz was able to do with Frank Reich in 2016 and obviously in 2017.

Is Carson Wentz a type A kind of person? Yes. Is he stubborn at times? Sure. Is he aggressive? Will he push back on offensive coordinators and head coaches and be opinionated? 100%. But Frank Reich loved that about Wentz. When he heard that Wentz was arguing with his offensive coordinators in North Dakota State, Frank Reich saw that as a positive. Most people saw those characteristic traits of Carson Wentz as a positive until he wasn't playing well. Then it was, he's a cancer in the locker room, he's a bad teammate, he's not a good leader. I don't think that's the case. Yes, there were anonymous sources that said that kind of stuff about him, but I take more stock in the players that put their name behind the quotes and backed up Wentz for three years when all these stories were coming out. And Frank Reich was one of those guys.

And so they have that rapport. They have that really strong chemistry where they can go back and forth. Carson Wentz, yeah, look, again, he's a type A kind of guy. He's got to trust you and respect you to let you coach him hard. He did not let Press Taylor do that. He did not let Doug Peterson do that or Mike Groh, but he let Frank Reich do that. He let John D. Filippo do that. So this isn't a guy that's uncoachable. I think him and Frank Reich worked and I think it's going to work again. The ceiling for this team, Lou, I think is immense if Wentz can get

back to form. From what you saw again in 2020, is it more so it's like a mechanical issue with Wentz and a confidence thing where we've already seen Colts players on Twitter welcome Wentz with open arms and indy. Julian Blackman, the safety, was texting back and forth to Wentz, posted on Snapchat. Kenny Moore, obviously, that viral tweet yesterday about him FaceTiming Carson Wentz. This Colts locker room seems to really be embracing Carson Wentz.

From the mental standpoint of Wentz, you get the mental side back as well as Frank Wright with him getting him back as far as mechanics go. Do you think Wentz is going to bounce back pretty seamlessly or is it more so a question? Yeah, look, there were significant mechanical issues in 2020. It was an inconsistent sample size as well in 2019. When it comes to footwork, when it comes to that elongated throwing motion, when it comes to his hips, you know, everything just being in sync. I think that's something he really needs to work on as well as holding the football too long and just not feeling pressure. He used to be, Evan, to me, an elite quarterback when it comes to feeling pressure and knowing when to step up, when to get outside the pocket, when to deliver the football,

when to get rid of it, when to hold on to it. That stuff regressed historically in 2020, but I don't think he's broken. There were even some bright spots in 2020, that three-week stretch against the 49ers, the Pittsburgh Steelers, and the Baltimore Ravens. You kind of saw the Carson Wentz of old. So to me, how I explain, again, because that wasn't the case in the other four years of Wentz's career, how do you explain the drop-off in all these areas of Wentz's game on the field? It had to do with confidence. It had to do with pressure that this team, this city put on him, right? From the jump, but everything just piled up. And I think, again, it was just too much for Wentz to handle. He started to press to hold off

Jalen Hurts. He knew he didn't have the talent around him to make plays for him. So he pressed even harder and he played hero ball. And so that's where I think it all went wrong for Carson on the field in 2020. Again, it was some self-inflicted, but mostly this was caused by, I think, General Manager Howie Roseman and just the chain of events that transpired. So for the Colts, I think the key is just don't let him do everything. Let him be Carson Wentz and let him be aggressive when he wants to be. But at the same time, you know, they're going to make things easier for him

than Philadelphia did. And so I think that's where you'll see him take a step back, improve those mechanics and accuracy, because I think he's going to feel like this team is behind him. It's a fresh start. He doesn't have to live up

to these impossible expectations. He has coaches he trusts. So I think all of that is just a perfect combination to see Carson Wentz bounce back this year honestly man I'm gonna put some money down right now on Carson Wentz maybe winning comeback player of the year in 2021 that's how high I am on this guy it really is disappointing that it only worked out for five years I mean that's just again a total organizational failure by the Eagles let me ask you this Louis, diving a little deeper from the Eagles side of things for a close-up to the

show. Appreciate the time here. Yeah. Let me ask you about Howie Roseman. From the Indianapolis side of things, we've heard reports confirmed from multiple angles that GM Chris Bauer put his offer out immediately once the trade dealers were out for Carson Wentz. The Eagles put that out with their third round pick and a conditional second that could turn to a first.

They sat on that for about two weeks until the Eagles came back and accepted that offer. It seemed like to me, Louis, that the Eagles were kind of just playing things in the media as far as trying to create some sort of market that wasn't there. The Bears reportedly never even sent in an offer for Carson Wentz, so it was sort of just like a one-team race the whole time. And then Howie Roseman kind of just had to cave in to Chris Ballard's demands and take a lower offer than he wanted to. Do you feel like Roseman kind of screwed this whole thing up

from the beginning with Carson Wentz, especially these trade negotiations? Oh, yeah, 100%. And again, I don't even think this needed to be the way it went. I think when people say that Carson Wentz forced Howie's hands, that's only because Howie Roseman in this organization wasn't willing to do what it took to make things work with him. I think what it would have took to make things work with Carson and make him feel like he can fix things in Philly is by number one, trading Jalen Hurts.

And number two, it's maybe firing Howie Roseman. That's the guy he did not trust, but he also botched the trade negotiations as well. I think he was trying to do, you know, create manufacturer leverage through the media. The problem was these teams saw through it. It's like you have a disgruntled franchise quarterback. You have this huge contract, right?

So that's a huge issue here. You know that Jalen Hurts is still going to be there. So you're not going to want to bring back both of those guys. There just wasn't a lot of leverage for the Eagles. Teams knew they had to get rid of him. But at the same time, I thought I didn't expect them to get potentially, if this all plays out well for the Colts in 2021, he plays 75% to 70% of the snaps.

If the Eagles can come away with a one and a three, I'll tell you what, Evan, I didn't look. That's not enough for, again, what you invested in Carson Wentz over five years. Nothing would justify this. No value you got back unless you got back to Sean Watson. But at the same time, I say a one and a three is way more than I expected them to get. Because like you said,

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Subscribe to the Locked on Bets podcast brought to you by betonline.ag, wherever you get your podcasts. What's your thoughts on Jalen Hurts, Louie? I mean, I know a lot of Eagles fans are on the Hurts bandwagon now, pretty deep after the Wentz trade. And it seemed to be that way even once Wentz was benched last season. But obviously, you're on the Wentz wagon and still believe that he's going to be a franchise quarterback and could turn around his career at the Colts. But what do you think happens next to quarterback? Did they go ahead and draft a weapon like Jamar Chase or Devontae Smith for Jalen Hurts? Did they go ahead and pick a Zach

Wilson or Justin Fields or Trey Lance at six? What do you think the direction is for the Eagles? Because it seems like right now after this Wentz trade, really anything's possible. Yeah, look, I think Jalen Hurts showed some good things last year, but I don't think this team drafted him in the second round to be a plan B for Carson Wentz if he was gone, that Jalen Hurts would suddenly be this franchise quarterback. They took him.

They ignored the ramifications of taking him. I think they ignored what that could do to Carson Wentz's psyche. But I think what they were focusing on was getting a top-tier backup at a really cost-effective price for four years. They saw what Nick Foles was able to do for this team as a backup, and they prioritized that and kind of ignored what Hurts' impact would have on Wentz. And so I don't think they expected him to be the franchise quarterback. I don't think he's somebody that is going to be an elite quarterback in the league. I would take

a quarterback at six overall, or I would try to move up into the top four. I really like all four of these quarterback prospects, especially the three that they could get, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, and Trey Lance. And so, you know, the Eagles aren't in the top five a lot. They've only picked there twice in the last 10 years. And The only reason they did in 2016 was because they moved up from 13 to 8 to 2 to get Carson Wentz. So you've got to strike when the opportunity is there. I think all four of these quarterbacks have a way higher ceiling than Jalen Hurts. Honestly, I just think Jalen Hurts is someone you could win with,

but he's not somebody you're going to be able to win because of. I just don't think he's a franchise quarterback. I think he's a solid quarterback that has a lot of intangibles. He's great late in games. He's mobile. He has great confidence and leadership. But I just, again, I don't, I'm an upside guy. I want a top tier quarterback and I'm not going to settle until I find that guy. And so I don't think Hurts is that player. I think if they keep Hurts, it's more so to justify the pick and what it did to Carson Wentz. And it's more so having to do with ego saying, okay, look what it did to our franchise quarterback.

We got to make this work if it, if we don't want to look terrible. So that's kind of where I stand with quarterback right now. I'm all in on taking a kid in 2021 in the draft. Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think all three of those options, Wilson, Fields, or Lance, are better options than Jalen Hurts. I'm really curious to see what the Eagles do, especially how Roseman with how their draft's going to be.

It feels like two teams going the opposite direction now, Lou. The Colts are winning now. They get their quarterback around a solid team. They just plant them in there, and they could be an 11-12 win team next year, in my opinion. The Eagles, meanwhile, could be like a 3- or 4-win team next year if all things don't go well. And for new Colts head coach – yeah, go ahead.

Sorry, I just wanted to say too and here's the other thing evan like you gotta be sure that hurts is the guy it's not fair because it's only a four game sample size but i think jalen hurts is just good enough to wear in 2021 if you're running the ball 30 plus times with him and mile sanders every game they might just be good enough to win six to seven games and then what you're picking in the top 15 but you don't have a shot at the next quarterback class you might just be good enough to not get that guy so you better be damn sure right now that hurts is the player or else you're going to risk giving up the one opportunity you might have to take a quarterback in the top five top six it feels like to me honestly i know 2021 supposed to be a rebuild year for the eagles especially if

you trade away your quarterback and cursing wentz But it feels like to me the seat should be warm for Howie Roseman with the way he handled the situation at Carson Wentz. Unfortunately, for former Colts at this quarter, Nick Sirianni, he stepped into a really bad situation, in my opinion, in Philadelphia. Really, everyone could be on the hot seat. Sirianni could be a one-and-done coach if Roseman gets canned after this year. It seems like to me, even though it should be a rebuild there in Philadelphia, what do you think the plan's going to be?

If the Eagles do fill next year, do you think they're going to clean house there? Or is this sort of a long-term plan with Sirianni and Roseman to try to build a young core? Yeah, look, Howie Roseman should have been fired a long time ago. This is now four head coaches that he's been able to oversee, and no GM gets that kind of pull, especially for a guy that's been instrumental in so many collapses of this team, the dream team in 2011, that failure, the Chip Kelly failure from 2013 to 2015, and now blowing up the Super Bowl core. I wish I could tell you he should be fired,

but Jeffrey Lurie, the Eagles owner, does not hold Howie to the same standard, the same accountability as he did Doug Peterson, Carson Wentz, Jim Schwartz, all these other coaches and players. So I think Howie Roseman is here to stay for a while. He's going to get the chance to rebuild this thing. And I think it will be a rebuild. Last year seemed more like a retooling, supply some young players around your Super Bowl core. This year, Evan, I think it's going to be a lot of turnover.

You saw they cut Deshaun Jackson on Friday. They're going to trade Zach Ertz. I think Jason Kelsey is going to retire. Who knows what they could do with Darius Slade. could trade him Fletcher Cox Brandon Graham I think everything's on the table right now because it's tough to kind of convince those veterans that this team is in win now mode when they clearly are not so I think this team is all about a youth infusion even Jeffrey Lurie their owner said it in the press conference when they fired Doug Peterson that this team is going to be now a couple years away.

And based on their timeline, they just didn't think it'd be fair to Doug Peterson. So they know it's going to be a long-term rebuild here. So I think that's the plan. But again, I think that could always be accelerated through the presence of a franchise quarterback. So if you get the guy in the first round, or if Jalen Hurts becomes that player, then it might not take two, three, four years.

We saw in 2016, that was like the first year of the Eagles rebuild, and it took one year to win the Super Bowl. Why? Because you found elite quarterback play in Carson Wentz and Nick Foles. You found a great head coach. So if Nick Sirianni is a great head coach, if Jalen Hurts or the rookie is a great quarterback, it might not take as long as it appears that it will be, at least right now, based on looking at this roster. Last one here for you, Louie.

Let me get your overall opinion, just closing out the show, on the Carson Wentz era officially being over in Philadelphia. And for Colts fans out there listening, your overall opinion of Wentz, like we talked about at the beginning of the show, and how he could succeed in Indianapolis. Yeah, look, I think he's going to bounce back. I think Carson Wentz is a special talent. He still is a guy that can make throws only a handful of other players around the league do. So I think Indianapolis is getting a special player, an extremely mobile, strong-armed quarterback that works extremely hard. I think he's a great leader. I just think the pressure really was just too much for him in Philadelphia. I look back at his legacy with the Eagles, and in a positive way,

you don't win a Super Bowl without Carson Wentz's MVP season in 2017. If he doesn't get you home field advantage, you're not winning even one playoff game. So I even have a Super Bowl ring on my desk right now, and I put Wentz on the side instead of Foles on purpose because Wentz really represented that change in the philosophy of this organization. When they drafted him in 2016, they were done playing for wildcard losses. They were going for championships. And what do you need to win a championship? You need a franchise quarterback. So it's, you know, this thing should have lasted 10, 15 years, not five. And I'll always look back at that with heartbreak and think that this is maybe the biggest mistake in Philadelphia sports history, how you ruined him

and then traded him. But at the same time, it was a positive experience, I think, with Carson in five years because you don't have a championship without him. So I think Indy's getting a special player, and I think the Colts are going to be a top-four team, maybe even top three in the AFC in 2021. Great stuff from you, Louie. Really appreciate you coming on the podcast today for the special crossover about the Carson-Wench trade.

Yes, go follow Louie on Twitter if you haven't already at DBI CLOE. He's the host of Locked On Eagles. You can go follow him on Twitter as well at Locked On Birds. And go subscribe to whatever podcast platform you're listening on. But Louie, really appreciate the time, man. Yeah, I appreciate it, Evan. Great stuff.