Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Colts QB Carousel with Matt Williamson

Episode Date: February 10, 2021

On today's episode, Matt Williamson, a former NFL Scout and co-host of Locked On's Peacock and Williamson, joins the show to go over the Colts' QB options this offseason.First up, though, Matt and Evan dive into how the Colts should replace left tackle Anthony Castonzo? Will they go cheap, make a splash, or even move Quenton Nelson?Then, we dive deep into all of the quarterback options remaining for Indy. Matt is a big believer in Carson Wentz, if he was traded to the Colts. The same goes for Sam Darnold, but there's more risk. What other options stand out to Matt and Evan?All of this, plus so much more, in a very informative episode talking through the Colts' QB carousel of 2021! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello everybody, welcome back to the latest episode of Locked on Colts, part of the Locked on Podcast Network. Today's always your host, Evan Sider, joined by a very special guest in today's episode, Matt Williamson, the co-host of Locked on NFL's Peacock and Williamson National Show. We're going to talk through the Colts 2020 season a little bit, and then really take a deep dive a little bit into the Colts options for this offseason. A very important one now coming with the retirement of Phillip Rivers,

a quarterback, and DeCostanzo, and a lot more. Matt, how are you doing today? I am fantastic. How are you? Doing well. Really appreciate coming on here, Matt. And I always enjoy listening to you and Brian on the Peacock and Williamson show. And for the Colts fans out there who don't know about it, they have the Lockdown NFL show for a long

time now. Went to their own national show, Peacock and Williamson. They do awesome stuff over there. So go ahead and subscribe whenever you're on the platform. That's tuned to the Peacock and Williamson show. They put out great stuff every week over there on the podcast. But let me ask you this, Matt. What was your overall thoughts on the Colts 2020 season? I know they made a couple of big moves.

You get Rivers on board for a year. You trade the 13th pick for DeForest Buckner. Made a couple of small moves in the margins here and there. Finished 11-5 and barely losing the Buffalo Bills in the wildcard round. Was that kind of what you expect from the Colts this year? Yeah, maybe even better. I mean, I think they did an extremely good job. I think they're a very strong organization from GM down to coach,

and they have a plan, and they have a very strong foundation of a roster and a culture in place. Rivers, I think, helped that. And now they'll have to obviously, you know, find the next quarterback. That's the massive looming question. And, you know, a corner and a left tackle and maybe an edge guy. So they're expensive positions to get back to where they were or surpass it. But they have a lot of resources.

And I like where this team's at. I thought it was a really strong rookie class led by Pittman and Taylor as well. I think it's a pretty deep roster overall with a couple holes that I just mentioned as well. But I think they're a tier two team in the AFC with probably the Bills and Chiefs clearly above them. And then it's a conversation maybe for who's number three, and they're in it.

You know, this is kind of going forward and not looking back, but I expect the Titans to get hit harder this offseason than the Colts, and I don't think Houston or Jacksonville is ready to contend yet in the South. Yeah, that's fair to say. I mean, obviously Trevor Lawrence now on board in Jacksonville is going to bring a lot of attention, especially Urban Meyer, the head coach, a really great combo the Jaguars put together. The Titans lose Arthur Smith, their offensive coordinator,

a really genius play caller who went to Atlanta to be their head coach. So there might be a little bit of a downturn as far as the Titans' offensive creativity goes. We'll have to see on that in 2021. But from the Colts' standpoint, like you mentioned there, Matt, you lose arguably the two most important positions in football, left tackle and quarterback in the same offseason to the retirement. Anthony Costanzo, the week before what Phillip Rivers did. I mean, for one offseason, Matt, to lose your left tackle and your quarterback simultaneously, from a front office standpoint, that's a massive blow. It is. It is. And fortunately,

they do have some options and they have a lot of resources, you know, cap wise in particular to deal with that. But no, you're 100% right. I don't have a lot more to add except for it is going to be a challenge. Let me ask you first about left tackle. I mean, Anthony Costanzo, very underrated left tackle throughout his career, played a decade for the Colts, never got into a Pro Bowl, surprisingly enough, but he was a really locked-down left tackle the last three, four years of his career. Obviously, Clinton Nelson helped out a little bit there, but really deserves a lot more credit than I think he did nationally.

What would you do, Matt, in this situation? Knowing in the back of your head you have to address quarterback, you have to address maybe cornerback as well, because Rocky Asen really regressed in year two Xavier Rhodes is a free agent as well would you go cheap at that position would you maybe spend big on a Trent Williams in free agency with around 70 million dollars in cap space or maybe take the draft route there's a lot of options there at left tackle for the Colts but what would you do knowing what other needs they have on the board there well a couple things on peel there is if I'm the, if I'm the Niners, I'm franchising Trent Williams. I thought he was awesome this year, and I think he gets a little overlooked as some of the, as, you know, potentially,

you're right in the conversation with the Tyron Smiths of the world of the best left tackles of this generation. So, I'm not sure he would be an option, but boy, he'd be a very rich man if he was on the open market, and Indy's one of the few teams that could probably get in that conversation with him. To really answer this question, though, I have to know who the quarterback is. I mean, is it a mobile guy? Is it someone that is very smart, like a Rivers, Peyton Manning, that might not need wonderful protection if he gets the ball out and knows where the blitz has come from.

Or is it a Sam Darnold that's a work in progress and might, you know, be learning or hold the ball a little longer. And this doesn't recognize things as well. So I think you have to prioritize it by let's find the quarterback first and then we'll decide how heavy to get in the left tackle market. Because, you know, I love the saying of quarterbacks are like baseball fields, you know, like if you have a short right field porch, you'd get a lot of left-handed power hitters. I mean, if you've got a big wide spacious outfield, you get guys that can run, you know what I mean? So depending who that quarterback is,

I think is very important with how heavy you attack the left tackle position. And it also, I mean, I'm not a draft expert at this stage, but it sure looks like that area of the draft is a pretty good spot for offensive tackles this year. Let me ask you this, Matt, because I know even Chris Bauer, the Colts GM, has mentioned this on multiple occasions. He hasn't ruled it out in both of his season any press conferences recently. He had an interview with Dan Dock at your 10-7 with Dan for about an hour earlier this week. I believe it was on Friday. And he talked about

Quentin Nelson possibly moving to left tackle, and he did not rule it out. He didn't rule it out prior either. Internally, it seems like they're actually weighing the possibility of Quentin Nelson moving from left guard to left tackle. He played that position for about 20 snaps against the Vegas Raiders when Costanza got hurt in the middle of a game earlier this season. I mean, Quentin Nelson is probably the highest paid offensive lineman of all time, whatever position he may be at, left guard, left tackle. Do you think that's a smart move, Matt?

Let's say Quentin Nelson's all aboard moving to left tackle to replace Costanza. You replace a generational left guard. Can he be a similar quality left tackle I mean what would you do in that position if you were in the front office where you have a guy like Quentin Nelson who maybe is a generational talent that could really do everything across the offensive line would you consider that or would that weaken your offensive line you think I'd consider it but more of a fallback plan you know I mean we've seen you know Zach Martin did it this year I mean some great

guards have done it um Alan Fanica did it for a whole year just went in the hall of fame played left tackle for a whole year after an injury set in and Nelson Fanica Martin these guys that are great great players are probably better than a replacement level tackle I mean they're going to be fine they have the size they're not going to be a liability mean, they're going to be fine. They have the size. They're not going to be a liability there. But they're so good, and Nelson in particular, I'm going to see what we're talking about here. He's so good at what he does.

I would – that would be my last resort, I guess, is the way to say it. Because what they're doing works. Don't – you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's a chance you get potentially worse at two spots. I mean, is he better than Costanzo? And then whoever's going to replace Nelson at left guard certainly isn't going to be of his caliber. But if the draft falls where there's an elite guard

and he's purely a guard and there's not a tackle you like, well, then I can understand it. But it's a fallback plan to me. BetOnline is the fastest and easiest way to bet on all your sports action. Football might be over, but NBA, college basketball, and the NHL are in full swing. BetOnline even covers awards, TV shows, and reality TV. Real-time updated odds and props on almost anything you can imagine. BetOnline has you covered for all the news, scores, and odds.

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and success of black men and women in sports with a new series called Locked On Presents More Than the Game. This week, Candace Cooper of Locked On Tar Heels and Eric Ayala of Locked On Women's Basketball discuss the opportunities and challenges that come with being a black woman in sports. Subscribe to the Locked On Presents podcast via the Radio.com app or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's dive into the quarterbacks now, Matt. A very interesting office now coming for the Colts.

A lot of smoke. Let's start off here first with Carson Wentz. Obviously, he had to replace Phillip Rivers. He had a very good year in 2020 for the Colts. The Colts expected it to be a two-year deal, but Rivers decided after this year he was going to hang up the cleats and say goodbye at age 38, which I don't blame him at that point but let me ask you this Matt I mean you have to think all the smoke around Carson Wentz right now you have Frank Reich you have Press Taylor who just got recently hired it

was the Eagles quarterbacks coach you have Mike Groh also former Eagles assistant there's a lot of connections to Carson Wentz and Indianapolis right now reportedly it's between them and the Bears there could be another team like really comes out of nowhere Matt but it sounds like in Indianapolis right now. Reportedly, it's between them and the Bears. There could be another team that really comes out of nowhere, Matt, but it sounds like the Colts do have an offer on the table for Carson Wentz. Do you like that move? Do you think it makes sense? And do you blame Frank Reagan that he can revive his career a little bit?

Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure how – you probably know better than I do how involved the Colts were with Stafford. I mean, to me, that would have been an easy replacement, keep the train on the tracks, even upgrade a quarterback. They didn't win that sweepstakes if they were in it. I'm a huge Wentz believer. In fact, a lot of my podcast listeners by week 10 or so were like, Williamson,

can you please recognize this guy is terrible? You know? And I'm like, I'm still on that bandwagon. I love the guy. There was a point terrible you know and I'm like I'm still on that bandwagon I love the guy there was a point you know whenever he was playing really well that he would have been one of my fate you know top guys to build around in the whole league and I watched him intently this year and I think he's very fixable to be honest I don't think he trusted his offensive line the people around him I don't think the system in Philly did him a whole lot of favors either. And I do want people to take notice. I mean, at the end of last year, 2019, those last six games or so,

he played really well. But nobody noticed because he had nothing around him. And, you know, his highest receiving yardage receiver was like 500 yards or something for the year. And he wasn't putting up numbers, but he was playing really well. So I think Frank Reich looks at him and thinks, wow, if I can get my hands on him, I know what makes Wentz tick. I would think that's the best fit for him.

But you guys aren't worried about the Bears necessarily. I said on our podcast today, if Wentz lands in Chicago, I'm selling my Wentz stock. If he goes to Indy, I'm buying Wentz stock left and right. Like, it's a fragile situation. He goes to the wrong spot and isn't handled properly. We may not hear from him again. But I think it's very much worth the risk for the Colts.

The asking price coming out of Philly the last day or two which I don't believe of two firsts is bonkers to me I mean no one's going to give them that yeah you have to think maybe Matt I mean if you're in the Colts position and you believe all these guys in the coaching staff right Chris Taylor might grow they think they can fix Carson Wentz and Chris Bler has shown in the past he has conviction that Frank Reich can fully trust him. He was the reason why Phillip Rivers came on board last year was because Frank Reich pounded the table for him. If he pounds the table for Wentz,

are you comfortable getting up to 21st pick in the draft for him and think he's fixable? Yeah, that's the conversation we had today too. Because full disclosure, I mean, a month or so ago or even like when it became clear that there was a really good chance Wentz would get traded, his contract and the tape he put out this year, I thought he'd cost a two or a three, you know, to a team that had money like the Colts.

And the Stafford-Goff trade doesn't change my opinion of that because there's more factors at play. I mean, he took on the golf contract that cost, you know, that, that, that cost draft picks for, for the Rams for the, for them to take on the golf pick. But I kind of came to the conclusion with the options available, the body of work we know from Wentz, the familiarity, what he's to the Colts.

I think I'll give you that first-round pick. But don't the Bears pick one spot ahead of you guys? Yeah, that's correct. They do pick 20, so it's really 20 or 21. Well, from the Eagles, that's not a hard decision. And if those are the two offers, I mean, do you spruce it up with a fourth or something like that? I mean, I guess I would.

I mean, you can't overpay for a potential franchise quarterback, and you guys absolutely need one. But I wish I was picking 20th and not 21st. Yeah, it's going to be real interesting to see what happens there, Matt, because I have to imagine this Wentz stuff is going to be done within the next week or two. I know they're kind of dragging their feet right now. The Eagles are trying to play a little bit to the media,

see if they can bargain up the price a little bit in some negotiations. But you have to think at this point between Chicago, Indianapolis, whoever gets Carson Wentz has their new franchise quarterback. But I agree with you on Wentz. The more I talk about it, the more I buy into it. They beat the Colts. You have the running game. You have the defense.

You have the weapons, the offensive line. Everything kind of never had in Philadelphia outside that one year with Frank Reich, who ironically enough is the head coach of the Colts. So you connect all the dots there. It really does make a lot of sense, Matt. In Chicago, I think it's almost Philadelphia 2.0 at that point. You have the fan base that's really on your neck like Philly is. And if he doesn't do well there, it's Miss Trubisky 2.0 all over again for Carson Wentz. And like you mentioned, he might be out of the league or really be a journeyman at that point. Doesn't work out in Chicago. But let me ask you about another couple options here, quarterback Matt.

Sam Darnold is actually a guy you brought up on your podcast recently doing your predictions for the NFL with the quarterback movement and the carousel. You had Sam Darnold go into the Colts to compete with Jacoby Bursette and Jacob East. And what do you think about Darnold? I'm also a believer. I would rather have Wentz as my opening day starter than Darnold.

But, I mean, Joe Burrow's older than Sam Darnold. I mean, there's still a lot of football ahead of him, and he's had very little around him to come along properly. But that's also several years of starting and not elevating those around him. I would gladly take a chance on Darnold. But, you know, the problem with Darnold is you rent them for a year and then you're in that franchise mode or you got to make a decision quick on him though. I mean, he's a cost you something to bring in and then he becomes

a free agent at the end of the year. So if he's awesome, yeah, you could franchise them, but that's pretty darn expensive for quarterbacks. You could try to extend him. Or if he isn't, you know, I guess you're off the hook is one way of looking at it. But I don't have a problem with Darnold. I mean, I would buy Wentz and Darnold stock, to be honest with you. I like them both coming out of school, and I'm still on board. And really under the radar team right now, as far as the quarterback carousel goes, is the Las Vegas Raiders.

We're starting to hear a little bit of smoke around Derekrick carr from what i've read it'd be an insane asking price almost like the staffer deal maybe even more than that for derrick carr had a great year in vegas this past year just didn't have the defense around him to really put really stop teams put up points like the raiders were doing all year almost averaging 30 points per game were the las vegas raiders marcus mariotta the backup there maybe teams can see him as ryan tannahill 2.0 who ironically enough tannahillhill was the guy who replaced Mariota to end up in this position he is now in Tennessee. What do you think about the Colts maybe sniffing around with a Mariota, maybe on a cheap like fourth, fifth, sixth round pick for Mariota, maybe throw the

Kinshasa to Derek Carr. Do you like either of those guys as fits an Indy? Absolutely. I don't think the Raiders would entertain that at all though for Mariota I mean I think they like Mariota as much as they like Carr and if Gruden's watching all these people get nice picks for their quarterback he says I'll go with Marcus and trade Carr for two firsts you know where giving me a fourth or fifth for Marcus I'll just just hang on to him. You know, like, so I like Mariota a lot. It's funny, you're touching on some of my favorites that have been hard to defend over the years, Wentz, Mariota. I've been on his bandwagon for a long time, and I feel like he's got the short end of the stick in a lot of his situations with a lot of changing environments and injuries and

whatnot. And I loved how he played in the one game we saw. Carr, to me, is the bird in the hand. Like, Carr is better than darn older Wentz right now. I mean, he's coming, as you mentioned, he's coming off a very good year. If you protect him and you run the football, he's going to be very good. And he'll probably have a similar type year. He'll be the eighth to tenth best quarterback in the league. I don't think his ceiling's as high as those other guys, though. He's just not as aggressive. Colts fans, do you want to save money on your next car purchase? Rockauto.com is the place to go if

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A main selection, reliably low prices, and all the parts your car will ever need. Colts fans, go to rockauto.com right now. You're listening to Matt Williamson of Peacock & Williamson right now. And let me tell you guys, you're missing out if you're not listening to Peacock & Williamson yet. Him and Brian Peacock do awesome stuff weekly over on the Lockdown Podcast Network, one of our national NFL shows. Former NFL Scott Matt Williamson, NFL analyst Brian Peacock, really give you the ins and outs, a lot of different angles of the NFL,

the national perspective on all the NFL with the latest news and insights on every game, team, and move around the NFL. Get your picks, previews, and much more every weekday with the Peacock and Williamson Podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, we've seen Derek he's kind of become a guy noticeable for checkdowns Gruden had to draft Henry Ruggs to really kind of get stuff out of

him deep last year even though Ruggs is a really good guy in short areas too I think that was more so picked to try to get aggressive side Derek Carr who really had that one good year in 2016 but outside of that he's really just become more of a less aggressive quarterback but we'll have to definitely see on Carr he might get be a guy moves on this offseason like you mentioned your predictions for the QB carousel Matt you had him go to New England in your scenario that could be really intriguing there if Carr were to end up going to the Patriots but looking at this free agency quarterback class so you have quite frankly Matt it's really awful I mean you have Ryan Fitzpatrick Andy Dalton Cam Newton who's really reached that

point of his career where I don't think he's a starting quarterback. Do you think at this point from the Colts perspective, Matt, that it's either trade for Wentz or Darnold or you go and trade up in the draft somehow? In a way, yeah. I mean, I thought the Stafford trade hurt the Colts more than any team in the league. Not that they had to be Stafford or bust, but it kind of your point, like as soon as that happened, it was like, wow, now we're not, you know, there's not an obvious fit. There's not. I mean, there's not somebody that's the equal prize that there's, you know, there's a lot of variables here. When Starnold, all these type of guys.

And you, like you said, Dak's not going to be on the free agent market. I mean, that's a pipe dream. I'm sure he's going back to Dallas. And it doesn't leave you much more. I mean, we mentioned Carr. He's going to cost you more than Darnold or Wentz. He's probably two first round picks or maybe more. Are you willing to go three years in a row without making a first round pick after trading last year's for Buckner? That's a hard way to team build. You start to look like the Rams then when you do that. And that's, that's dangerous territory. I guess, I mean,

cause they, I don't think there'll be a quarterback worth taking at that point in the draft either. And I think Mac Jones will even be gone at that point. So I kind of feel like it's a little bit desperate and that's a bad way to do business. And it's not the way this team usually operates. One of my favorite free agent quarterbacks is Jacoby Brissett. You know, I mean, I don't know if he's returning to Indy or not. I'm not saying he's the answer and he's going to lead teams to Super Bowls, but I just wanted to throw that out there because we're on a Colts podcast that of all the guys out there, I bet he's the –

I wouldn't be shocked that he's the best value when it's all said and done. Yeah, I wouldn't honestly be shocked by that, Matt. I mean, obviously Colts fans have a love-hate relationship with Jacoby Bursette. He's obviously been thrown to the fire a couple times there due to injury and retirement. I mean, Andrew Luck in 2017 and 2019. But I have to think maybe if he does come back, it's strictly QB competition like in your scenario with Darnold.

Maybe you bring him back to prove he can beat out a veteran like Jacoby. Maybe if you draft a guy, you can go out and bring back Jacoby to be the bridge for a year. I think those scenarios make a lot of sense. It percent does return 2021. That's kind of where I was going with that, to be honest with you. Not like, oh, just bringacoby back and all as well it's well if we have to piece it together i wouldn't mind if he was one of the pieces no yeah i think it's a really actually

realistic scenario if the culture go down a path that we're not talking about yet with maybe like a wentz or a darnold or someone along those lines but you were in the front office before matt you were a scout i mean you know the ins and outs in the front office before, Matt. You were a scout. I mean, you know the ins and outs of the front office makeups and teams like that. Like you mentioned, the Colts aren't in acts out of desperation. But if they miss out on Wentz, let's say he goes to the Bears, let's say they're not really interested in Sam Darnold, they're picking out number 21 overall.

And like you mentioned, a great point you brought there, Matt. They're really kind of a no-man's land for a quarterback this year. The top four, Trey Lance,in fields zach willis and trevor lawrence all going to probably go in the top seven eight picks of this draft do you maybe the cold to the sneaky team that wants to talk about matt as far as trading up in this year's draft because i just feel like if they feel like one of those three guys wilson fields or lance as a franchise quarterback and they miss out on wentz or darn old or if they don't feel like those guys really make sense maybe you do pull a trigger maybe give two or three future first round

picks and just push all the chips in the middle of the table. I feel like it might almost be that time, honestly. Yeah. I mean, I guess you can test these other waters. And if you're not willing to brave the rapids in those waters and the price is too high, you can go in with that mentality. And maybe you have a Brissette locked up at that point, you know, somebody like that or a Dalton or somebody that's a bridge that you can live with. And if you can't, if you think you can try to move up, I suppose,

I just think it's going to be a pretty long haul. I mean, I bet those top four go in the top six or seven picks. Yeah. It would take an awful lot as far as draft compensation goes, Matt. Last one I had for you, appreciate the time as always. Looking at this quarterback carousel around the NFL, there's going to be a lot of movement. We've already seen it with the golf staffer trade. We're going to see it very soon with Carson Wentz,

that'll be at the Colts or somewhere else. Sam Darnold's probably on that list as well. Going to be a lot of movement in free agency too. Do you feel like from all these teams that need a quarterback, if you're a quarterback on the open market market or if you're like a Carson Wentz or a Sam Darnold, are you targeting the Indianapolis Colts in this scenario, Matt? I feel like they are the ecosystem in place with Wright, the offensive line, the ready-to-win defense.

You have the GM in place in Chris Bowdreau who really never makes a bad move. It feels like to me like if you're a quarterback that's probably on the move this offseason, you're probably hoping to go to the Colts. Yeah. I mean, the only one that I think I would prefer that are really quarterback needy right now is San Francisco. I mean, they were in the Super Bowl just a year ago. Phenomenal offensive mind.

They have a lot of pieces in place. They were just super injured this year. And then, as you were saying that, I knew that's what you were going to ask me. I thought Jimmy to Indianapolis wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, though. No, I mean, yeah. Really quickly, if you have the time, do you think that makes sense? Let's say the 49ers trade for someone or they trade up in the draft and they don't view Garoppolo as the guy.

Are you comfortable giving them a second, third-round pick for Jimmy G in that scenario? I mean, we just saw him go to the Super Bowl a couple couple years ago and it'd be almost like the same ecosystem that they had in San Fran and Indy with the defense and the running game and all that around him yeah and I view him more than bring him in and draft the guy I mean I would say give me a set I'll give you a second for Jimmy I'll handle that contract he's my quarterback and we'll see how it I mean, I think he's gotten a little bit of the short end of the stick. I think he's better than the Kirk Cousins of the world. I think he could be at the Derek Carr level,

and you'd get him much cheaper right now. Obviously, his stock is down. If San Francisco were to land Watson or Darnold or trade up or whoever, you know what I mean? It looks like they're going to entertain the idea of adding a guy. I think Jimmy might be the best quote consolation prize you could get, especially for what he will cost. Matt. Yeah, this is really awesome stuff.

I really appreciate coming on here on the podcast to talk to the QB carousel for the Colts, because there's going to be one of the more intriguing teams to follow, whether it be the trade for Carson Wentz the next few weeks, or they may move up in the draft or do something else. They're going to be the team to watch here teams this offseason to follow, whether it be the trade for Carson Wentz in the next few weeks, or they may move up in the draft or do something else. They're going to be the team to watch here for on the QB carousel, and I really appreciate you coming on today, Matt. You guys can go follow him on Twitter

if you're not already at Williamson NFL, and go listen to, on our podcast platform, listen to the Peacock and Williamson National NFL show here on the Locked On Podcast Network. Matt, appreciate the time. Absolutely. It was fun.