Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - COLTS SQUAD SHOW: Identifying the Colts' BREAKOUT stars for this upcoming season!

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

The guys discuss the potential breakout Colts' stars for the 2025 season, reveal what they'd like to see from each of the quarterbacks in preseason game number two on Saturday, and go through a position preview of the defensive line group.

Welcome in to another edition of the Colts Squad Show. I'm your host, Derek Shultz, and I'm very excited to lead off today's show with something other than the quarterback battle. And I'm Zach Hicks. I'm also excited to try to squeak in as many roster bubble names as possible on today's episode. And I'm Jake Arthur, and I'm so sorry that I'm not Taylor Swift, guys.

Hi, I'm Alan Pinkett, and I finally figured out what my Twitter handle was. Colts Nation rise up it's the Colts squad sponsored by game time everything Indianapolis Colts every week covering all the big hits and game changing plays from the Circle City the way only the locked on podcast network can it's time to squad up the Colts squad show on the locked on Colts network I'm Derek Shultz. I've been a sports talker. Indianapolis for many years and joined by a man who left Notre Dame as the program's all-time leading rusher in a very successful NFL career with the Houston Oilers as well in Alan Pinkett and of course you every dayers know Zach Hicks and Jake Arthur from locked on Colts our eyes, ears, brains, boat shoes on the ground all season long. Tonight we're wrapping up training camp because tomorrow Thursday is the final day out there in Westfield with our Colts breakout star candidates for 2025. So we'll start the show with a little bit of optimism. I did mention

we're not leading the show with quarterbacks. Of course, it's a Colts show. So we got to talk quarterbacks at some point. We're going to do that in the second segment. What we want to see from both Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones coming up Saturday night in their second dress rehearsal against the Packers at Lucas Loyal Stadium. Why most of Indies position battles, guys, may already be decided. We're going to get into that as well later on in the show.

And we're going to hit our next position preview. That's what we're going to be doing in all these preseason Colt Squad shows. And we'll talk about the defensive line, which has become a very important position. especially with the uncertainty in linebacker and some of the injuries in the defensive secondary. Guys, let's get right into it. There has been and will continue to be a lot of conversation about the quarterback battle. I know that Jake, you and Zach talked about it earlier today on your show on Locked on Colts, but I just thought as a pallet cleanser, we would lead with something else and we would talk optimism

and happy, fun, sunshine, rainbow things, right? Because there's so much dread and gloom over the quarterback battle. I think this team has several candidates for breakout seasons in 2025, several young guys that I'm really excited about. I'm in danger here of one of you guys stealing mine, so please don't do so. I want you subconsciously to just know telepathily who I've picked. But let's go around the room. Zach, who jumps out to you, breakout candidate, breakout colt for 2025? You know, I'll actually do one that's not the most common one here.

I'll try to go off the cuff a little bit here. Not me, right? Isaiah, no, I was kidding. I'll go with Nick Cross for this one here. Nick Cross, I think Nick Cross took such a big step forward last season. I was very, very excited about where his game got to by the end of the season. And honestly, when I was doing like individual player scouting reports this all season for Horseshoe Huddell.com, he was probably the guy who improved the most in terms of my perception in terms like to where he actually was last season.

As a strong safety, it's a very difficult position to play in this NFL because you're at your task with doing. doing so many things from being a split field guy, rotating to single high, coming down in the box, filling against the run, and also matching with tight ends up the seam. And I thought he did a really good job last year. There were some miscommunications. There were some issues in the red zone. But just as a tackler, as a physical player, and as a guy who could take the ball away whenever he was given a chance, I thought Nick Cross had a really great season. Now you have him coming in here with Luana Rumo's system where that speed, that athleticism, we're going to really pay big dividends in the passing game.

And then the run game with so much nickel defense, he's going to be in the box a lot. And he's going to be tasked with being a very, very big part of this run defense to make sure that players aren't leaking out and getting big run gains against them. So I think he's going to be a great fit in this system. He's got to get back from the hip flexor injury right now. That's going to be the big part for him. But once he's back there on the field again, Nick Cross, only what, 24 years old, very young player second on the team and tackles last season.

I think he was second on the team in takeaways as well or turnover is forced. I believe it was three interceptions and one force fumble. So Nick Cross, I think he can really build on that. Get into the Pro Bowl this season and have a real breakout season. Yeah, he proves a lot of people wrong last year, Jake. I remember when he injured Josh Downs and people just went apoplectic about it because they're like, this guy shouldn't even be on the team. And now he's hurting two roster spots.

And, you know, even I was pretty upset about it. and he had a really nice 2024. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in his third year, his first time becoming like an actual full-time starter, there was only one defensive back in the entire NFL that had more tackles, and that was Boot at Baker. Otherwise, Nick Cross was in, like, the top five for tackles,

pretty much the entire season. So already kind of like a soft breakout for him, not quite a household name yet. I think with Lou Aniromo, he certainly can do a little bit more. that'll certainly break him out. So I like that one from Zach. I don't want to steal either of you guys, Derek or Allen,

so I'll go with one that's maybe not super poppy as well. No, you're doing that. No. I'm really getting myself more into JT to a Malo out here. Okay. Now, here's the thing. He's not a starter. So he's got that against him right now.

But at the same time, he's in a group of defensive ends. He's going to get playing time number one already because they do a heavy rotation. Number two, these defensive ends, Laiatu Latu is like the only one who doesn't have like an abysmal bill of health. And even him in college, that was like one of his main concerns. So I think Tua Malau is going to play quite a bit. He's replacing a guy in Dio with Dangbo who wound up playing the most snaps for the Colts last year

and is on paper a much better run defender than Dio ever was. Now we'll see how much catching up he has to do as a pass rusher. but I was super encouraged by his performance against the Ravens. I mean, he left with a knee injury, but he stuffed the stat sheet in his limited amount of time there in the first half. So I was really encouraged by him. I like his length, his power that he plays with. He's not the bendiest or super most, like, twitchy agile guy,

but he's one of those players that looks like he knows how to use his body and his, like, the momentum, his inertia to get through to the backfield. So I really like a lot of things about Tui Malau. And I was lukewarm on the pick initially. Like I liked him as a player, but I thought they probably could have done better from a pass rush stance. But the more I've dug into him and the more I've seen him on the practice field and in the preseason, I'm pretty bullish on Tewan the lowell.

You know, JTT is an excellent pick. It's not my pick. but I intend to talk about him when we go through the defensive line because I'm really, really intrigued by him. So it makes me feel like, you know, I might be on the verge of being some type of analyst if I agree with the pick you made. But the pick I for a breakout, and I've talked about him before, Tyler Warren. I mean, the tight-end position was so lackluster in terms of production with the Colts last year, 467 total passing yards by the tight-end position. And that was, what, four guys? Tyler Warren did three times that in his production at Penn State.

So if you can get any type of production out of the tight end, it's going to make the entire offense that much better. You know, you're going to make more first downs because you've got a bigger body to throw to. You're going to increase the quarterback's passer rating, you know, a number of completions because you can throw usually shorter passes to the tight end. It just is going to help out the entire offense by being able to not just feed. feature the tight end, but to have a tight end that is adequate enough that other teams are going to have to game plan against him. You know what, Alan? I made the show episode's Avatar Tyler Warren. So I had a feeling that you were going to say, I was hoping somebody was going to say Tyler Warren. I'm thinking about myself, I think Alan's going to say Tyler Warren because I

think Alan really likes Tyler Warren. You're the Tyler Warren guy. I think we're all Tyler Warren guys on the show, but Alan is really the Tyler Warren guy. That's a great thing. I mean, especially considering, like you said, the lack of production for the. tight end room. I'm also going to go, I think, fairly more obvious. But the caveat with this person is there's not a lot of room at the inn and he needs help from the position that's throwing him to football. And to me, guys, A.D. Mitchell has everything that you want for a prolific wide receiver. He is, traits he out the wazoo for lack of a better term, right? The guy can get open. That's never been really the problem for him. The problem for him has been really kind of everything else.

You know, he struggled with drops at the start of camp. You know, last year with contact and alligator arms and things like that. I know he drew some criticisms there, but you've seen him roast Charverius Ward and high level defensive backs. I mean, he has that ability. He has that in his bag. And I think once it all comes together for him and once he kind of gets out of his own head, he can be a really, really good NFL wide receiver, like a top line wide receiver one, wide receiver two type guy. I think the problem is that the Colts have a bunch of guys in front of him that are really good too.

And, you know, we talked last year about, oh, this guy's going to be Alec Pierce's replacement. Yeah, no problem. And then Alec Pierce, you know, boat raced him, really in the race last year. I mean, he left no doubt in between who was the guy that was going to be higher on the depth chart. And I think, again, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. I feel like I say that on every show because it's my favorite.

cliche but you know pierce pierce's level going up pitman being healthy again josh downs as well i think everybody just rising up as well will make a d mitchell a better player too so like i don't think the numbers are going to be crazy this year but i do think that you're going to get a couple of oh my god wow type plays uh from a d mitchell somewhere down the line this season yeah you know i have this funny inside joke with a friend of the show jv uh jv three we are we all know jv and stuff like that really good front of the show. But this running joke that I blame A.D. Mitchell for everything. Everything with the Colts offense is blaming A.D. Mitchell because, oh, he has to be this.

But the thing is with him, I hold his film to such a high standard because just the talent is so, so high with him. There is maybe not another more talented player on the roster outside of maybe Jonathan Taylor. In terms of relative to the rest of the league at his position, A.D. Mitchell has true superstar ability. He's got the size. He's got the intangibles. Everything is there. The one thing that he needs to get better at is playing when the ball is not coming his way. As a receiver, all the gaudy numbers, all the gaudy highlights, everything happens when the ball is targeted to you.

But the way that you get on the field in the NFL, unless you're a top five pick, is by being great away from the football. If we look at Alec Pierce last year, fantastic player down the field, but he didn't get many targets. You know, he wasn't this guy who was getting 100, 200 targets or anything like that. Alec Pierce excelled because he would run off his defender on every single play, stretch the field vertically, open up that middle of the field. On RPO's, he was always hitting his landmarks and in the run game, a very, very good run blocker at wide receiver. When I look at 80 Mitchell, when he's targeted, awesome receiver.

I think he can get better, obviously, with catching the ball, like that was an issue last year and having the contested catches, but the separation, outstanding, the speed, outstanding, the ability just to get open, great. But the big thing that he needs to do is be just more efficient. in hitting his landmarks on those RPO's and making sure that he's making life easier for his other receivers, clearing the field when he is not the intended guy running full speed on every single route and then run blocking. Once he does those things, he'll be in the lineup more regularly and he'll get more targets and as a result have more production. But that's the biggest

thing. Really young player, only what, 23 years old, 22 years old, he just needs to get better away from the football. Be excited doing the dirty work and he will get on the field more and really hit that potential. But yeah, I hold him to such a high standard because, again, this is a superstar in the making. He just has to do the work to get there. And I think we've seen good progress this offseason, but just carry it into the games, be a little bit more of a dog out there. And this can be one of the best receivers in football. And, you know, you point out his youth. You said, what, 23 years old. And so I think all those things will come, especially that intangible of playing hard when the ball is not coming to you.

That just takes maturity in the offense and more of an understanding to realize if you go hard every play, then you confuse the defense a little bit more. You know, so that comes with time and understanding the overall scheme of the offense. And instead of just worrying about, okay, well, I can take this play off because the other is, that the play is going to be on the other side of the field. I don't have to do anything. But in actuality, what you do far side from the ball makes so much of a difference when a defensive coordinator and their staff are watching film.

Because they look for every single fee to let them know where the ball is going. And if you're taking off, I mean, they can just, they know how to rotate. They'll look at the body language before the snap even comes to know, okay, it's not going his way. We can key on that. So it's just maturity in the offense and knowing how valuable you're carrying out your assignment on each and every play becomes. I went through it too.

You know, there were sometimes when I was going to be on the far side from the play, but it makes a difference what you do on each snap. So 23, maybe 23 and a half, he'll get it. it honestly sorry Derek I was going to say it honestly is very impactful even like if you're not in the plan for the play at all you're just on the field but like I've seen so many clips recently like things that guys do in the NFL now if you've got a running quarterback like Anthony Richardson they take off you're going downfield confusing your cornerback thinking the ball's coming to you you flash your hands you call for the ball you know you've completely taken a defender downfield while your quarterback is running uh so like there are there are creative things you can do i mean this is cross sports reference right here but like reggie miller and step curry devastating without the ball in their hands you know i mean like there is work you can find to do without the ball to make yourself a nightmare for defenses uh so yeah i'm i'm with you i love that one derrick and then once you say yours i got to fit someone and i cannot believe we

didn't get to i say aladdin i would say jake i think we've all said one so i think you Well, Derek was going to say something. I didn't want to interrupt him again, but why hot to lot to? Yes. That's a perfect one. Yeah. When Jake and I talked this morning, I was saying I'm leaning Latu and then I made a last minute change.

Yeah. I figured one of us would say Latu, but like we can't, we can't move on from here without at least mentioning him. Like he was very close from those four sacks being seven or eight last year. A lot of mistackles. Like I think he's got to get stronger and more in control when he actually gets to the point of contact. But, you know, he has at least said the right things in terms of, I think I've identified

what, you know, in the off season, what's going to help me finish more plays, getting stronger and kind of having a better plan of attack of how these blockers are going to approach me and how I can get beyond them. So I really like what Latsu might be able to do. He has been an absolute terror in camp so far. I was telling Zach the other day, I think he's had more practices with multiple sacks than days without sacks at all. so he has really been performing about as well as he could so far yeah and he looks like a true

habit guy right whereas a lot of these other guys that they've had you know no offense to like quitty pay and guys like that like they're productive but they don't keep opposing coordinators up at night i don't think i think lots who has that potential yeah for sure like oh i know we want to get to the next segment here but one thing i want to just end this on is when i did this ranking for locked on colts earlier this offseason on the on the 10 most important colts for success this season. And I think outside of quarterback and the starting offensive tackles, Layatulatu is the next most important guy. Because if he can hit his stride and emerge as a legit top end pass rusher off the edge of this year, this

Colts defense will improve from 29th last year to a top 15 unit. They just need that legit player off the edge. And if Latu can hit it this year, I think this defense can be so much better. Well, we can't have a Colts show without talking quarterback, right? So besides staying healthy and on the field. We're going to discuss next what we desperately want to see from Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones on Saturday night. That's when the Colt Squad Show returns. This episode brought you by Yahoo! Fantasy. It's the best time of the year. NFL kickoff is almost here, and that means fantasy football season is back in full swing. And this year,

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your lead together and give this new mode to try. If you're into more of the classic, you still play head-to-head private leagues or join a public league. Stay tuned for more killer announcements and start playing Yahoo fantasy football now at yahoo.com slash locked on NFL and we're back on the Colts squad show thanks so much for joining us I'm Derek Schultz alongside former nerd name legend well I guess you're never a former nerd name legend you remain a nerd name legend even after your days and Alan Pinkett and two legendary co-hosts of locked on Colts Jake Arthur and Zach Hicks Colts and Packers Lucas Oil Stadium on Saturday night the second preseason game and we know how the sequencing, I guess, is going to go with Daniel Jones starting.

But we're going to see more Anthony Richardson because making up for lost time. Of course, the Broken Pinky came in the second series in Baltimore. So we didn't really get to see a ton of Richardson, whereas we got to see a lot of Jones in Baltimore. What do you guys want to see from the Colts quarterbacks on Saturday night the most? Like what are you really keying in on? Jake, we'll start with you. Yeah, so I want to see him just continue to do the little stuff well, you know, accepting. those shorter routes and executing them well.

And we're talking to Anthony here with this one. Anthony, yes. Because that's what Daniel Jones does. But no, with Anthony, accept the small stuff, execute it well because it to a rhythmic offensive passing game. You've got to take the small stuff. It keeps the chains moving. It's not sexy.

But you got Tyler Warren. You got Josh Downs. Jonathan Taylor is always a toss-up on if he's going to catch it. But like DJ Giddens, Tyler Goodson, you're going to have guys out there that can get you three, four extra yards from what you're going to get, where you're going to get them to fall. So last year, you know, the accuracy on that stuff was totally scattershot. You never knew what was going to be.

So, you know, maintain, you know, I really want to see what his, you know, fundamentals and footwork and everything look like in a game setting because I can tell he is very intentional about it in practice. but we've also seen him in a game just throw everything away and just go completely off vibes. So does he keep his wits about him? And is he still, he's kind of in this thing where he's still so raw that where do you abandon your fundamentals and go to just what comes naturally to you? So I would like to see all that stuff kind of marry together. We know he can do all the long stuff.

We know he can run. And I want to see him, number one, stay out there healthy the whole time. I want to see him execute the offensive successfully, but in a boring way, if that makes sense. Yeah, be boring, I think is fine, right, Zach? And this is a guy that can be very, very exciting. And his potential is very, very exciting. But it's almost like you want to see the boring before you get to everything else,

sort of the walk before you run type stuff. Yeah. And the big thing with that, when you have a quarterback like Anthony Richardson, You don't want to tame him too much because what makes him special is that ability to hit the big play. And explosive plays are such a big part of the NFL game, you know? So you don't want to bring him down to such a level where he's just a shell of himself. You know, you don't want to put the muzzle on the dog essentially here. You want to let him be who he is, but you just want him to make smarter decisions within that.

You know, we don't have to force jump balls down the field 10 times a game when we can have the intermediate game, when we can have the short game and keep the offense ahead of the sticks and keep them going. But when it comes, Anthony Richardson, the one thing I'm really looking forward to this weekend is, can he avoid the big mistake? And the big mistake doesn't have to be a turnover. It can be what happened on last Thursday, where that one mistake cost him the rest of his showing and kind of was a step back for him. And I'm not trying to dwell on that play, because I do think we have gotten to the point now for that play where we are going too much into it. We talked about it the day after. We talked about the day of, but we don't want to keep dwelling on a preseason play for a long time.

but that's all we've seen so far of him in the preseason. So can he avoid the big mistake in preseason game two? Can he build off of what he's done this summer and bounce back in a big way? Again, it doesn't even have to be boring for him. Just avoid the big mistake, move the ball down the field, stay within your offense and get things going. So, yeah, I think there is a way for this to be successful without it being flashy for Anthony Richardson, where for Daniel Jones, it's kind of me wanting the other thing for him, where it's like, I've seen you be successful running an offense, you know, running it like a coach's kid,

doing, hitting your peas and cues, getting the ball out like you have to. Can you give me some flash, though? Can you give me something where everything's not set up for you? Like a play where everything's covered and you have to create for me. Or a play where there's pressure in your face and you have to get out of the pocket and make something happen on the move. Or again, backed up third and 10, backed up third and 12. Can you deliver that strike over the middle for a first down?

So I have kind of different standards for these two quarterbacks on Saturday. day because they are very different quarterbacks. Richardson just operate like you have to be, operate like an NFL quarterback. Daniel Jones, give me a little bit of that flash. Give me some reason to think that you're more than just a game manager, pocket mover, pocket quarterback that can just stay ahead of neutral situations but struggle with negative situations. So you guys have different standards, but that's kind of the way that this quarterback

battle shaping up for these two different quarterbacks. Well, Zach, I hope I don't sound like an echo again. but what I want to see is similar to what you've already said. For Daniel Jones, we know what we get. He's reliable. He's going to do the right thing most of the time. What I'm anxious to see is when a play is off schedule, how do you react? Right.

And I think that's what goes towards that creativity that you're talking about. Because we know a play can go off schedule. How do you react? when the play goes off schedule. For Anthony Richardson, I would like to see him take command of the offense. Be that calm, quiet leader on the field. And if he can have command of the offense, then the confidence is going to come with that.

And then with that confidence, and now he won't have to think about mechanics, thinking about where he has to put his feet. You just make the play. If you have command of the offense and you know what's going on, You're going to have the confidence to just see the guy and just throw it to him, not think about, well, should I throw it 100 miles an hour or 15 miles an hour? Your mind is going to tell you if you have a command, what type of throw to make to that person who's 10 yards away or 40 yards away. So that's what I want to see for him is just have command, and through that command, he will gain confidence.

And I want to touch on that, Alan, because you mentioned the word think three or four times in there. And it almost feels like, guys, when we saw Richardson at his best last year, albeit against, you know, the Jets and Patriots aren't great. Better defenses, right, than they were offenses. But it was almost like at those end of game situations, he took thinking kind of out of it in the sense that he was just reacting, right? Like it was, it was go, go time. It has to be now. and it felt like he was almost more comfortable in the controlled chaos of that than he was like in this, you know, early in the second quarter where I think you're thinking a little bit more whereas you're just kind of reacting. And I would love to see him just kind of feel more comfortable in all game situations, not just kind of with the game on. We even saw that in year one. Remember the rally against the, was it the Rams, I think, and they kept him in the Jacksonville game and all of that. It just, it feels like that's really when he is. I know we're talking about very special. small sample sizes here because he hasn't been very healthy, but it feels like that's when we've

seen Anthony at his best. I would totally agree with that. And that goes to practice too. Like he in the now three years I've been watching him in practice, up until this year, he used to be a really rough player in seven on sevens because it almost was all thinking and waiting. When he would go to 11 on 11s and the pressure was on, boom, he became a much better player much freer. And again, you can see when a guy, his wheels are turning, he's thinking too much, it was just go, like you mentioned, Derek. So again, it's good that I think we're seeing him become a better player in seven on sevens. He's kind of balancing all that out. But that's also what makes him so clutch as well, is you kind of, you kind of just give that player the keys at that point

if you're Shane Stuyken. Now, he's feeding him what to do and everything, but at the same time, he's like you know what just do your thing that's why you're out there um and yeah i i i think he's just one of those guys that for whatever reason again maybe that's the reps thing that they keep talking about you know they say he just needs more reps more reps to get more comfortable but yeah i'm i totally have seen that when you say there's the thinking kind of gets in the way of it well and i think the biggest i was going to say i think the biggest thing when it comes to playing in any sport is the ability to put bad plays behind you we always always make the reference with baseball about how, you know, to be a Hall of Fame hitter,

you have to fail seven times out of 10, you know, you have to hit 300, you have to hit 400 to be a Hall of Famer. In football at quarterback, we're talking about wanting guys to be 60 to 65, maybe 70% passers. You're still failing three out three times out of 10, four times at 10. And that's not even counting for the times that your receivers are bailing you out when you're making a horrible read, you know, or that something went wrong on the play and you still are just getting a completion, but you're not getting exactly what needs to happen there. So guys fail all the time. Every single day, every single day in practice at every single position, it's about how

you bounce back from that. And with Anthony Richardson, I think early in games, we've seen it in his career where one in completion turns into six, turns into seven, turns into eight. The next best thing that he can do now is just having that short-term memory loss, having that ability to, I made a bad read on that last play, I missed the throw on the last play, my mechanics were off in the last play, let's get back to it. That plays out in my system, onto the next thing, and here we go. And Alan, as a former player, I mean, that has to be the most important thing out there

is just having that short-term memory loss. Oh, yeah, you just, when a bad play happens, you got to flush it because it will affect you. And even a loss, you know, sometimes, you know, when I did the broadcast and say Notre Dame would get their butt kicked. The following week, I would always say, okay, you don't want to lose to that opponent it again, you know, so you whatever happened that game, you got to flush it, forget about it, move on to the next thing. So, so important. The other thing I was going to say in regards to

Anthony Richardson, if you want to be on, you know, the same page with your receivers or gain their favor, there is sometimes throwing the ball early or throwing it late. You want to sit on the bench, throw that ball late. Throw that ball early. Now the receiver is, going to work a little harder to get their head around because they know that thing is coming. You want to gain favor with the receivers. Now, a lot of this takes the quarterback knowing the system backwards and forwards, knowing all the idiosyncrasies of the receivers, but this is why they practice, you know, so they can, he can know that when 80 takes a step a certain way, okay, he's going to cut. He's cutting out right now. I can let this ball go right now. That's why

you practiced but if he's early with the ball he will gain more of respect from the receivers than if he's late if he if he's late then the defenses will love him you know to zach's point my wife got mad at me today because i lost my glasses i'm going to tell her actually actually the short-term memory loss is a good thing and i'll let you i'll let you guys know how that goes when i bring up that conversation well you'll say it's three times out of ten i don't forget that's right that's what is it made i should be in the hall of day give me a little bit of a break here Just one last note on Daniel Jones. And Jake, you can cite this because I think you were actually there.

There was a play in Westfield. I don't remember which day it was. And A.D. Mitchell, I think it was apparently broke loose and was wide open and just running by himself. And Jones badly under threw the ball. And Mitchell came back and got it and all of that. To me, like, unlike Minshu and Jacoby Rosset, I don't think Daniel Jones is completely petrified of throwing the ball deep. It's just not really something that he can do. To me, I just want to see him do that every once in a while just to know that if there's a broken

in play or something, you know, where his guy, you know, Pierce, Mitchell, you know, the Colts have a bunch of guys that can create separation like that, that he can make that throw when it really counts. Yeah, and I mean, when you're throwing to A.D. Mitchell, you're throwing to a guy who was capable of winning those contested catches, even when he has to kind of contort himself because A.D. did have to, like, completely stop, let the defender fly by and then almost like dip down to the ground and he babbled it and then caught it. But yeah, I agree. I'm going to kind of marry what Alan said with what Zach said here because Zach and I talked about this on

the show earlier. One thing I remember about Philip Rivers when he was here, obviously his arm strength by that point wasn't totally cooked, but it was not what it once was. He found a way to throw the deep ball by throwing it early. Like he threw the ball like to T.Y Hilton very early downfield to let T.Y run under it and get it. That way, you know, T. Y's not already 30 yards downfield and Philip is trying his best to get his arm to cooperate. Like that's not how. it matters. So like if Daniel, again, he's getting to be an older guy now. If he can teach himself a new trick and kind of come to terms with, hey, my arm strength's not the best. I'm not going to throw it 60 yards. But there are ways I can be a successful downfield passer. I think that

would certainly work. In the spring and the summer, he has tried to go for Alec Pierce plenty of times downfield. Like in Anthony Gould, like he hasn't seemed totally, you know, averse to throwing the ball downfield like you said there ago it just doesn't always look good so we'll see i have i have kind of challenged him on it a couple times i don't think he agrees with the fact that he doesn't test throwing the ball downfield even though statistics speak otherwise uh but we'll we'll see we'll see it's the the seed has been planted on my part i'm i'm just trying that's all i'm doing i'm going to recall here but i'm pretty sure that 20 20 colts team was like fifth or six in the entire NFL in yards after catch i think zach pascal had a really big year i remember in yak uh and and a lot of that was not

because that was a great receiver room because it was not it was a big hinds yeah he had my hinds pinman had a good chunk too that year pinman had a lot of yards after catch that year yeah i mean i think we're appreciating the river season now with what's happened since right we didn't know what we had until it was gone that's for sure uh we're only one preseason game in but we're going to tell you why it feels like most of the Colts key position battles may have already been decided. We'll get into that next. This portion of the show brought you

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And I know that Jake and Zach already did their roster cutdown show the other day where you guys did your roster predictions. And you were pretty much aligned outside of some housekeeping type things. You know, are they going to keep four here? They're going to get five there, whatever else. I think what's interesting about with where we sit today, guys, is it feels like, you know, if two weeks ago you would have asked about, you know, the key position battles, I think you would have talked about the last tight end spot with Will Mallory and Jelani Woods, right?

I think a lot of us thought Tywer Goodson and Cooper was going to be a battle for the roster. And I think a lot of people thought, well, you know, Goodson's been here the last couple of years and he's okay, whatever. But maybe he's not going to make the team. And now he looks like a roster lock. I know Zach doesn't like bring up the kickers, but the kickers had a position battle. And that doesn't really look like much of a battle either. It just feels like guys with where we sit today, a lot of these spots are already kind of decided.

I think the real interest comes from what they're going to do at cornerback because of the injury situation. And, you know, things like, can you get away with all of the backup nose tackles, slipping them through on the practice squad? Maybe you don't need to have them on the Ross. You know, things like that. It's almost like the arithmetic, for lack of a better word,

is going to be what's the real sort of sweating it out type thing than it is going to be the actual name. I feel like the names we feel pretty comfortable about for making the 53 man. Yeah. And first off, Derek, the thing we have to say first is we love that you do your research. This is why you host the show here. You're listening to our locked on podcast mentioning the nose tackles all getting cut, clearly listening to what I had to say on lockdown calls because that's something that I've purely been pushing in recent days.

So we appreciate the time that you put in there, Derek. But yeah, no, I think it's interesting with the roster battles is for every roster battle that feels solved right now, I feel like a new one has kind of emerged, and maybe it's not an official cutdown battle, but more so like how playing time is going to happen or who's going to start. So we like linebacker, for instance, we came into camp kind of saying like maybe Jalen Carlyse could be pushed by a Joe Bacchi. Heck, we did it on our bold prediction show before camp even started. And I had a really hot take that Bacchi was going to start over Carlyze.

And now it's kind of looking like that might happen. but there is still a three-person battle for that spot. So it's Carlis versus Botchy versus McGrone, who we all think are going to make the roster, but we don't know who's going to start there. So we might have more clarity on the kicker position, more clarity on that last tight end spot. Running back feels like we have clarity by issue of everyone getting heard.

I guess we have some clarity at cornerback, unfortunately. But I do think we've had more emerge with, say, again, that linebacker spot with how big is Hunter Roller spot going to be? That feels like a pretty interesting one in terms of, is he the sublinebacker this year? Because he's gone from roster hopeful to potential like 200, 300 snap guy on defense this season. So there have been new ones that have emerged. But I agree. A lot of these have been locked up.

And I think that's a pretty decent spot for the Colts. It kind of makes those last five spots even more crucial for these guys fighting for a position. Yeah, the roster cut down exercise that we did at the end of it, it got a lot tougher than I. participated, you know, guys like Daniel Scott, who a couple weeks ago, I wouldn't have said it was a shoe in, but I was fairly confident he would make it. I had to cut him, you know, a cornerback caused a lot of grief because you got to think maybe at least one of these guys goes on IR, and then that's going to open up for someone else, is that Alex Johnson? Is it Jonathan Edwards? Does Chris Lamont stick is the backup nickel? Because, I mean, who knows how Long Kenny Moore is out now?

defensive or nose tackle was a really good one because again I couldn't really tell you anything about Johnson Smith or Tupo to this point in camp like I think we need more preseason games for that but yeah it's it's kind of become a hodgepodge and like Zach has mentioned it's kind of created new battles like Tyler Goodson as you mentioned earlier Derek I had kind of written him off when we were doing like before training camp roster predictions. I'm pretty sure I left him off. But now I'm like, is Goodson going to be the RB2 or is DJ Giddens? Because I have become a lot more enamored with Tyler Goodson's past pro recently because I saw him pick up a couple really nice blitzes that allowed his quarterback

the time to make a play, just the other day in practice. So I'm very enamored by that one now. And just as guys continue to ascend the depth chart, they have new competitors that they're going against. Well, I love the fact that you guys have a breakdown show on who you think is going to make the team. You're probably not going to like this, but I think the roster's made before they even cracked this one day. I think they have in mind who they want on the team. I've been through eight training camps. So I've seen some players that maybe had a good camp and got released and it didn't have to necessarily be because of talent. It was financial concerns, got to balance the books and things.

But I think that roster spots, they already know what they're going to do before they get to game one of the preseason, but they allow for about four or five exceptions, you know, and they give themselves that wiggle room because they've already. got their game plans in place. They know what they want to do. They know how they want to attack these teams. So they're just filling in, you know, the spots. But if somebody else flashes and can add to, you know, what they thought they were going to be able to do offensively, somebody like AD is flashing. It's like, uh-oh, well, you know, our plan was to maybe throw it to Tyler Warren more, but this other guy is flashing. That's a lot of

an exception, okay? So I think it's a good exercise, but the coaches and the upper management already know who's going to be on that team before they even, you know, put a pad or a helmet on. Yeah, and I completely agree with that. I think there is, I think Goodson's case might be like the 1% out of 99% of the time. Just because Alan and Zach and Jake, we could talk about this, they went out and they drafted a running back and then you know calil herbert played extensively in Chicago he's rushed for you know 2,000 yards in his career I think they were actively trying to see what else was out there at backup running back and goodson just made himself invaluable because of all the things that he brings to the table especially as a core special

teams guy and I don't know if they knew automatically that that was going to be the case but when they saw it in camp and now they're thinking, not only is this guy going to have to make the roster, this guy might have to be our RB2 going into the season. I think there are like extreme cases that sometimes pop. I'm just, I'm trying to give goods in his flowers here because a lot of us wrote him off in Indianapolis and, you know, here he is probably going to enter week one likely as your second running back. It's a great story. Yeah. And I completely agree with Alan too. I'm of the opinion that these teams go on 46 to 48 of these spots are solidified going into camp. You leave a couple open

for guys who have just out of their mind camps, guys that you have to make exceptions for, and who proves to be the special teams coach's favorite? Who becomes the special teams coach's little pet find that offseason? We saw Trevor Denbo a couple off seasons go with the Colts. Undrafted free agent, I want to say

his guarantees were like 20,000. I don't quote me on that. If his agents listening, I don't know if it was that much, but that's among like the lower end of the spectrum for undrafted free agents. A little little known player coming in here, and he makes the team out of camp two years in a row because he became a special teams guy. And that's how you make the team. Tyler Goodson,

I think he probably saw the writing on the wall and was like, you know what? I got to really lean into the special teams thing because this is how I can stick. So yeah, I've been giving Tyler Goodson credit all offseason. It's been one of my favorite things to watch his ability to get up there. But yeah, that's a thing when it comes to training camp that we always talk about. Like there are starting spots that are kind of up for grabs. They want to see which guy put the work in in the off season. But to Allen's credit, like when they get there on day one of training camp and they can see like what shape these guys are in, how much effort they put in in the off season, they generally know who's going to win a lot of those battles because

so much in the NFL isn't decided in July and August. It's decided in March, April, May, what these guys are doing with their personal trainers, what these guys are doing with their nutrition in the off season, what they're taking from those exit meetings at the end of the previous season and working on in the off season and just how they come to camp looking. I mean, one of my most important, one of the, I think the story I even tell to when I talk to like offensive tackles in college and stuff like that when I'm interviewing them and I'm like, look, the Colts had this guy, Baron Hart, Ryman, had a rough rookie season. Not the greatest rookie season was getting steamrolled in his first couple games that he played.

Got a little bit better, but it was looking kind of bleak for him. Comes to a second training camp, 20 pounds heavier, full of muscle, ready to go. this coaching staff was ecstatic about him and now he's a top 10 paid left tackle in football top five paid left tackle in football you just have to put the work in in the offseason these coaches know from day one of training camp who put that work in who's ready to go and who's going to make this team so yeah we can say there were these roster battles and stuff but honestly a lot of these coaches know from day one of training camp who's going to win those battles yeah and the coach don't make it much of a secret either with you know jake i know you have pointed this out um will Mallory and Jelani Woods, I think it's been pretty obvious where those two have been ranked for most of camp here, just from their actions and when they're playing and who they're playing with. I would agree, like, especially if, if there's a tie, like, two guys just are consistently making plays like Mallory and Woods have, well, Mallory is doing it with either of the two guys that will be playing quarterback for the Colts this year. Jelani Woods has been balling out with

Bradley Leonard, and that's not really going to make much of a difference. Now, it could get him moved on to the practice squad if he clears waivers, but, you know, Will Mallory is going to be the guy. I'm just interested if they're just going to park him as a, as a game day inactive every week or not. But, you know, to your, to you guys point, Zach, with the offseason training, Tyler Gibson's key, boxing and cardio. That's what, that's what led to his big offseason.

Oh, nice. Awesome. Boxing and cardio. Okay. I need some more boxing and cardio. I would say, couldn't be me. Couldn't be us, right? Yeah.

We're poor good-looking guys. With injuries at corner and uncertainty at linebacker, we're going to talk about a position group that has become the most critical on the entire Colts defense next when the Colts Squad Show returns. Back for a final time on the Colts squad show. Thanks so much for tuning us in. I'm Derek Shultz.

And Pinkett is here as well, former Notre Dame running back and Oilers running back, as well as Zach Hicks and Jake Arthur from the Locked-on Colts podcast that you every day or know very, very well. So what we've been deciding to kind of employ on this show is we'll take one segment and just sort of do a position preview. I think we hit corners in one of our first shows. We had offensive line, I believe, last week. I'm excited about the defensive line. If everyone stays healthy, right, knock on what. I guess you could say that with every position group. We talked about Latsu and his potential breakout candidate.

You have two mainstays, two core pillars in Grover Stewart and DeForgasbunner, you know, to do the best interior de linemen in the league. And Quinty Pais is hoping there was a little bit more there. And I don't know, maybe he still can show that as a former first round pick, but still like a good solid NFL player and some of the depth as well. You know, Samson, EBCOM coming back, Tyquan Lewis, who's been here for, you know, feels like a long time now. as some defensive line depth as well.

But, Zach, we'll start with you. How do you feel about this position group overall, including some of the additions that they made in the offseason? I think the defensive line room for the Colts has the most mobility in terms of where they can be in the NFL. I think this could be a top 10 unit when you factor in everything going right. This is starting for staying healthy, JAT2 and Lolao really acclimating himself this season.

And Laotu having a big year like we hope he does. us have, I think this could be a top 10 unit in football when you factor in Louisiana remote's ability to match coverages in the back end, make quarterback second guess, and give them the time to get that pressure and really affect the quarterback. My concern, though, with this defensive line is one, the depth. If a guy goes down, if Grover Stewart goes down with an injury, I don't think they have the nose tackle on the roster that can step in and be a starter. And I think there are teams around the league that can say they can do that. I don't I think the Colts can't do that.

We look at it if Buckner goes down, you can't even get him close to replacing that into your impact. Again, most teams can't say that with a superstar productivity. And then the edge rotation is really concerning for me because I think they're going to rely a lot on Sandsen Ebukom and Tyquan Lewis over a player like JT, two and Maloau, who, again, Ebukon is coming off an Achilles injury at 31 years old. That is a death sentence for any position,

but edge rusher, especially an edge rusher like him where he was so speed to power and dependent, where do you really generate your power though in speed to power from your legs, from your lower half? And if that Achilles is not fully back to strength when it usually takes two years to get back to that strength, I don't know how effective he's going to be this year. And I just don't know, again, I know how this team is. I know how this coaching staff is when it comes to ramming their head against a brick wall to try to get through it.

it's not capable of getting back to his old itself. So I do see a path for success, though. I don't want to just be all negative here because of layout too lot, you can take that step. It changes everything. If you can have two force players on your defensive line as pass rushers, and then Grover Stewart is a forced player in the run defense, you can have a top-tier defensive line in football.

But if you're not getting that, and you're relying on pass-rushing by waves, and you're starting to rely on Neville Gallimore to be what hasn't been so far in the NFL, Samson Abukh Khan to get back to something he might never get back to, Tyquan Lewis, hitting a new level at 30 years old. I don't know if it's going to get there for this Colts team. But again, there is a successful path with a lot to hitting his potential. And by all accounts, from what Jake has said, he's had a great offseason. So I'm hopeful.

I'm just a little wary of some other aspects of this defense. Well, Zach, you hit the number one aspect when you mentioned. depth. Depth is the most important thing when it comes to defensive line because guys can't sit in there, you know, continually trying to rush to pass or nine, ten plays into a series. You know, they have to get spelled. You can't, you know, line up. It's so important, especially with all the different defensive packages are going to have. It's going to call for some people to just be classified as, you know, the past rushing specialist, and some guys are going to be the run stoppers, but you need not to be able to deploy both. So depth is so important,

but I'm going to bridge off a little bit. I don't know if you guys know the Quitty Pay story. It's an interesting story. You know, when he was young, I mean, his family had to flee Africa, because there was like some civil war in the region and everything, and he came to the United States. And he figured out he was pretty good in football. And when it was time for him to go to high school, he knew that if he got coached up good enough, he could make this his profession. But the high school he wanted to go to required tuition. So he told his mom, mom, you will not have to pay for my college. And sure enough, he made true on that.

And I just liked that story so much because that's a guy who understands that he's not just playing for himself. He's playing. He was playing for his family. And so that's the big thing about camaraderie on a football team is, understanding that you're not just doing this for yourself. Yeah, you want to get it to plan because that left guard now had his fourth child and he's got to be able to have enough money to feed that fourth child. When you understand that you're playing for something bigger than just yourself,

that's when I see equity pay, that's the kind of teammate I want to have. And then lastly, this JTT, who, uh, who, uh, Jake, you mentioned as, you know, one of the breakup stars. I've been watching this kid for the last two years at Ohio State. And, you know, when I would watch him, I'm like, whoa, this dude is different. You know, it's like he's he's heady, you know, but with supreme athleticism. And what I mean by a heady is a lot of defensive ends, they just want to fire up the field. No, this dude, he'll come up to field.

He sees the quarterback stop his drop. It's like, whoa, he's getting ready to throw. I'm going to go up and hip this pass. You know, so he, to me, he was just a one I watched him play. And there were guys that got, you know, more attention on that Ohio State defense. But I think he was, he was one of the more solid pieces. I guess that's why Coach drafted the second round, too. But they saw, I think, what I saw.

I'm really intrigued if his learning curve can be accelerated for him to have the type of success in the NFL that he did at Ohio State. You've got a guy there for the next 10 years who's just going to be a stud. I like that. He definitely is a mindful player. Like, you do see a lot of defensive line by just trying to cause chaos and havoc and get into the backfield by any means necessary. But he is very strategic in the way he is. does things. He pays attention. So I like that you point in that out. I'm very, I don't know what to think about this defensive line yet. So when you start up front with the fact, Zach mentioned

this point on our show earlier, they're going to be out of nickel primarily. They're going to have an extra DB at least on the field throughout. So the defensive line, there's going to be a big onus on those guys stopping run. You know, Quipay is one of the best edge defenders that stopping around the league. We know Buck and Grover are pretty, good there. Laotu Latu, a lot of mistackles last year. For what we hope he provides a pass rush could be a little if he against the run. And that's where you might bring in an abacom or type one or JT2 and lowout. So I'm just a little curious how this is going to work. And then if they wind up playing any of their interior guys kind of out of place like we saw

with Tave and Brian having to be the nose tackle. I mean, we again, none of us really know what's going on behind Grubber Stewart, but we've seen Neville Gallimore have to play, you know, one tech or knows before on other teams. And that's not his, that's not his thing. He's that size, but he's very much more of a three tech in spirit. And so it's, I just think this group is per usual, you know, Chris Bellard and company are banking on certain things. Attauma, out of worry, it can develop anything further than, you know,

when he's giving you, that'd be great. You're banking on my Atuatu-Ata taking this next big step. You're banking on the 30-year-old Samsonabicom with an Achilles, you know, a blown wheel coming. And I don't think they expect him to regain 2023 version, but they have clearly shown a lot of faith that they didn't need to go out and make some big changes on the line. And that's kind of the thing for me is I just,

I don't feel like they did a ton to the defensive line in this offseason. I mean, they did lose Dioidango and replaced him with two in LOWO, but I kind of expected them to add an interior guy in the draft before the sixth round. And, like, it's not like Tim Smith is a slam dunk. They had felt the need to also bring in Eric Johnson and Josh Tupo. So this could go either way. Like that kind of mentioned, they could be really good, or they could be the bane of their roster just about by seasons.

And, I mean, we've certainly seen this defense. perform very poorly against the run last year. I mean, it's a new coach, but it's a lot of the same players. So we'll see. I do think there's a potential for them to be pretty good, definitely more so as pass rushers than run defenders. I don't think they're going to totally just bottom out and be terrible against the run, but I do have my reservations there.

And they do have a good mix of youth and experience. You know, both of them are there, and I think that's so important. for the young guys to be able to look up to a person to learn how to be a pro, you know, and for the older guys to have that youthful exuberance about playing, to have the enthusiasm of a rookie when they go out and play. And I think that experience just will develop some good camaraderie on that line, because they'll realize all we have is each other. So we've got to stick together.

I'm glad you mentioned Tave and Brian because I've been around the colds 20-something years. And my two favorite player quotes of all time, one is Edge when they had a preseason game in Japan. He didn't want to travel. He said the clothes don't want to get to Japan is Benny Hanna. And my second favorite quote ever was early in the season. I think it was Nate Atkins, our friend from the Indy Star, went up to Taven Brian. He was like, hey, why are you playing nose tackle? And Taven said something like, I'm paraphrasing here.

I don't know, man, but when I do, it's not going to be pretty. I was like, he's exactly, he's being honest, right? I mean, it was, it was, uh, it was, uh, it's not something. He didn't want to be doing it either. That's the thing. It's like, some of these guys don't want to be put in the position they're put in, but they are the ones that have to be the sacrificial lamb. Like, I know plenty of instances of guys who knew they couldn't do a certain thing,

but we're forced to do it. And we're not good. Sports Sam Mellinger having to go on their quarterback. I mentally repress most of that, thankfully. That's one name I'm not happy that you brought up. Sam Heller left a lasting impact on both Quentin Nelson and Jonathan Taylor. Both of them are anti-shoes now, in part due to Sam Ellinger. So not quite on the Mack Holland's school of thought, but, you know, they've got healthy feet now thanks to Sam Ellinger.

Real quick, though, before we get here, since we're talking about. talking defensive line i need to get in my isaiah let's go yeah what are you wearing right now jac when it comes to the defensive line though i just want to keep getting my isaiah land propaganda in here please don't cut this guy i just need to get this out here but this is a player they spent two years developing he's been marinating in with his team for two years every time he gets an opportunity you see some really good things from him only like what 25 years old had an 18 sacks season in college. This kid has some talent, has some potential.

Don't give up on him for a couple 30-year-old pass rushers who might not give you what you want this season. Chris Ballard, I know you're listening to this show at hour, one hour exactly, but please, please don't give up on Isaiah. That is my biggest thing for the Colts this off season. There's surprise cuts every year. Please don't let Isaiah Land be won this off. Let's just end every Colts squad show with an impassioned defense of somebody at the end of the roster.

Why don't we just make that a tradition? You just wait, my Daniel Scott won on Saturday. It's going to be amazing, too. Oh, God. In fact, Saturday, we're going to be back recapping the Colts and Packers. And that'll be obviously the first and only preseason game from Lucaso Stadium. So we hope to see you guys then. And we'll be recapping every Colts game right away.

After the game ends, a couple minutes after we'll be starting and that going. And those are going to be a lot of fun, those game recaps right here on the Colts Squad Show on Locked on Colts. And, of course, Jake and Zach have you covered every single day for your everyday or is on Locked on Colts as well. You can follow along on socials at Locked on Colts. And we will see you next time Saturday night after Colts and Packers, right?