Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Crossover Special with Locked On Browns

Episode Date: October 8, 2020

On today's episode, it's the latest Locked On NFL Crossover Special as we're here to preview Colts vs. Browns. Hosts Evan Sidery and Jeff Lloyd joins forces to go in-depth on this all-important AFC matchup.Starting off in Cleveland, how has Kevin Stefanski been different than Freddie Kitchens? Why is the team responding better so far? Also, how about Baker Mayfield adjusting in Year 3? The Browns are trying to build honestly in a similar way as Colts GM Chris Ballard did in Indianapolis.Over in Indy, the Colts are hot with three straight wins themselves. Unlike Cleveland, the defense has been carrying Indianapolis. DeForest Buckner is the most impactful defensive lineman in the AFC. Sorry, Browns fans, even more than Myles Garrett. What about the injuries? How will Indy overcome a few critical ones?Closing out the show, we provide predictions. Who wins this battle between Cleveland and Indianapolis? All of this, plus so much more, in a Colts vs. Browns deep dive! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello everybody, welcome back to the latest crossover here on the Locked On NFL Podcast Network. I'm Evan Sadry, the host of Locked On Colts, joined by Jeff Lloyd, the host of Locked On Browns. Here to preview arguably the best game of the week here on Sunday, the Colts versus the Cleveland Browns at 425 Eastern Time. Jeff, how are you doing today? A really critical matchup for both teams, where they're both 3-1. It can really matter when we get closer to the playoff seedings in December.

Well, I think for the Browns, this is probably keeping pace with the AFC North. And we'll see the way it works, obviously, for the Colts here and everything that's going on with the Tennessee Titans. But you just want to look at any chance to win a game and look to take yourself from 3-1 to 4-1 where it gives you that breathing room. It gives you that security blanket of now maybe you've won a game and look to take yourself from three and one to four and one, where it gives you that breathing room. It gives you that security blanket of now maybe you've won a game or two that maybe you didn't think you were going to win. So that God forbid, you know,

when the tables turn and maybe you end up losing a game, which the Colts already did probably a game they would love to have back against Jacksonville. So you want to try and get one back, so to speak, because everybody knows, you know, the ebbs and flows of the 16-game season. But it should be an interesting one, no doubt, on Sunday, and two teams that are kind of succeeding in similar fashions right now. Yeah, let's hit on the Browns first since today's crossover, Jeff.

Then we'll dive in to the Colts and close, of course, our predictions for this important game on Sunday between the Colts and the Browns. But let me ask you, Jeff, another year, another new head coach for this Cleveland Browns squad, the third for Baker Mayfield in his career after Hugh Jackson as well to start it off. And now he's at Kevin Stefanski for his third head coach.

What's been your assessment so far of the Stefanski run Browns? Because at least on offense, they seem to be clicking a lot better. We liked everything, you know, from the original hire and then all the talk. What we liked was the uniform, just the uniform. When you heard from General Manager Andrew Barry, when you heard from Paul DePodesta, who's de facto president of the organization, and then when Coach Kevin Stefanski spoke, everybody was on the same page. It was almost like if you closed your eyes, you weren't really sure who was speaking. And for us,

it was like, oh my God, it's a common voice. Everybody's speaking the same. You know, they are, you know, stressing the same things they expect from their players. They expect from each other. They expect from their front office. They expect from their coaching staff. And it was definitely like a sit back, like, wow, this is how good organizations sound. Wasn't going to mean anything was the question. Then of course, COVID hit. The Browns were supposed to have extra time to prepare. When you have a new coach and a new system, you're, you know, you're given new time to prepare as a brand new head coach, you know, taking over a team. They never got any of that time. Camp had its period where the defense looked really good, and we were concerned about the offense,

which seems really weird to think about this six, seven weeks later as to where this team is right now. Then there was a week versus Baltimore, and it was like, whew, wow, we really thought, we were hoping, and, you know, look, Baltimore was easy for them. You know, they ran easily, you know, through the AFC North and through most of the AFC last year, you know look you know baltimore was easy for them um you know they they ran easily you know through the afc north and through most of the afc last year you know then spit the bit in the playoffs but you know they can come right back and just basically run it back and be

successful which they have to this point but for the browns it was we were really really concerned then the amount of points you put up against cincinnati the amount of points you put up again against washington and then the amount of points you put up against Washington, and then the amount of points you put up against Dallas. And it was like, all right, yep, we're seeing it. And this offensive line, we thought it was going to be a really good offensive line. But it's been better than advertised, quicker than advertised. And even you get to a spot like last Sunday where Nick Chubb goes down, you throw a guy like Dearness Johnson in, who looked good over the summer and probably would have been talked about more if it wasn't for the other two backs in front of him.

And you get almost a 100-yard day out of him. Still some things you want to see from the passing game, which I'm sure we're probably going to get to here, as far as them developing more, getting everybody more involved here. But look, this team is 3-1. They're confident going into Week 5 against an opponent that's going to be a tough game but you know they feel that you know they have an opportunity here um you know against team a team that's normally tasted playoff success in the past coach Stefanski has not been nothing less than brilliant to this point I mean to be three in one to have the players as bought in as they are

the fact that you know he is preaching and pushing them hey you be as you know as strong in the social awareness front as you want to be because you know he is 38 years old so and he has young kids you know he wants a more balanced universe for the children he's raising you know so I think that's where the players are going the extra mile last year you know they all thought maybe Freddie was fun and then when it wasn't working out, Freddie wasn't fun anymore. Freddie wasn't cool anymore. But this team is more successful now than they were at any point when Freddie Kitchens was here last year. More talent was brought in, but still some of the key components that are leading this team to victories on Sunday are here.

I think they're just more confident with their teammates, with themselves, and with the direction above them and where this franchise is headed. Very good points brought up there, Jeff. It seems like finally stability is there for Cleveland when it comes to the overall structure of the organization right now. Let's see how Baker may feel. A very important third year for him this year in 2020. So far, so good.

Of course, the Browns have 3-1. Baker has seven touchdowns and only two interceptions. Hasn't thrown a pick in the last two games as well. third year for him this year in 2020. So far, so good. Of course, the Browns have three and one. Baker has seven touchdowns, only two interceptions, hasn't thrown a pick in the last two games as well. What's been your overall thoughts about Baker Mayfield in a year where he really had to prove some critics wrong after a really subpar 2019? I think part of what happened last year, and look, nothing worked last year for the Browns, but who's always going to get the biggest bullseye Browns. But who's always going to get, you know, the biggest, you know, bullseye on his head?

It's always going to be the quarterback. And Baker wouldn't have it any other way. He understands the importance of the position. And he understands, you know, the pecking order of it. If you're not going well, guess what? Quarterbacks will be the first one whose head is on the line. He's always going to be the one on the chopping block. I'm sure they would like to be doing more in the passing game.

I'm sure they would like to be doing more in the passing game. I'm sure they would like to be throwing for 300 yards. And Baker here in year three, look, he was never going to approach Patrick Mahomes' money. That just wasn't going to happen. But I think the biggest thing for his future is winning. And for him to be the quarterback who plays in the next Browns playoff game, he knows what that means in this city, where it is such a dry pond of playoff games in such a long time.

He understands it. He gets it. And he's still had his little spouts with the media who still want to talk about this being a losing franchise, where these guys are excited about being three and one, excited about the future, and people still want to bring up the past and it gets aggravating to a point there is no doubt about it um there's you know you got odell going last week which was huge because i mean it's you know and i compare odell since they've had him it's like this great sports car you've been working for working on in garage, but it's never been on the road.

Guess what? They got it out on the road last Sunday. It seems like they kind of know how to drive it, and they found a way to make it useful, and certainly in big scenarios, which led to a big victory last week. I think he's going to be more than fine, but the way this offense is clicking, and this is more of just being smart as a coaching staff. Why do more with the passing game? Why call more passes when you are gouging people? You've ran for 818 yards through four games. Yes, you would love to improve your passing game. Yes, you would love to implement more in your passing game, but you won three games in a row by pounding the rock a ton and shoving it down people's throes, which your offensive line is excelling at right now. Keep it simple, stupid. They're winning to this point and doing it.

They'll find ways to develop it. The thing, and this is probably the hidden gem that I think with this Browns passing game is Austin Hooper, David Njoku comes back this week. They drafted Harrison Bryant, but they really haven't gotten much going yet out of the tight end position, which seems to be a really solid group for them. Once they can start to maybe initiate these guys in, it's going to make easier for Odell. It's going to make it easier for Jarvis Landry. You can start working in the backs a little bit more

within the passing game, but there's more to come. But if you're being successful right now with what you're doing, there's no reason to force something that, you know, just for the sake of forcing it. If you can win games, you know, doing what the Browns are doing to this point. Let me ask you this, Jeff, before we dive into our next time and talk about the Colts. And obviously we're going to know more about both teams here

after Sunday's game concludes in Cleveland. But do you think this Browns team's legit Jeff this is a team where at three and one right now of course a hot start to the season do you think they're going to be a team vying for one of those final few playoff spots being around like a 9-10 win team this time as we look back around Christmas or how do you envision this season going after the first quarter finishing at three and one well look I mean even at three, look, you guys this week, the Indianapolis Colts, Pittsburgh next week, tough matchups. They still have the rest of the NFC East. Dallas is the best team in the NFC East by a landslide.

So there's three games that look winnable right now on paper. Who knows what's going to go on with the Tennessee Titans? And, you know, we'll just, I guess, leave it at that, which is probably difficult for you to talk about as you are, you know, covering within, you know, the AFC South as you are. You still got the Jets on the schedule. The Raiders, they look good sort of sometimes. There's still a bunch of winnable games here on this schedule

for the Cleveland Browns. The key is going to be if the defense can't tighten it up, can they still continue to create turnovers? It made the difference in the Washington game. It made the difference Sunday against Dallas. Grant Delpit, and it's weird because everybody wants to keep talking about, oh, what a loss, what a loss, what a loss. But look, Grant Delpit never took an NFL snap.

So we really do not know exactly what he was. But this defense and, you know, everybody will injuries, you know, the Browns are getting back to people they've had injured. Teams have lost guys for the season and a ton of them. The Browns only lost one player thus far for the season. So they've been pretty fortunate in that front. Guy's got to step up. This is why he got 53 players on your

roster. So some of these guys are going to have to do this. The key is going to be if this defense cannot tighten it up, can they still find a way to create some turnovers week in, week out to offset for the deficiencies they have? This proved vital in the last two weeks. We'll see if it continues to go on. That'll probably be the biggest, you know, calling card as to whether or not this team plays a January football game or not. We've talked already about one half of Sunday's clash in Cleveland as the Browns were on the hot seat.

Then we're going to dive into our next segment, putting myself Evan Sider on the hot seat. As Jeff asked me questions about this, and now it was Colts team who is currently battling some injuries, got really showing an elite defense so far, questionable offense as well. We'll hit on all that in the next segment, but first thing I want to tell you about our sponsors today's show, and the first one is Rock Auto. With the ever-increasing numbers of makes and models, it's now impossible to stock

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Both sitting here three in one. I know Evan, and I could probably speak for him here, speaking for me. This is exciting for both teams, what these teams have been through last year. Obviously, with the Andrew Luck blind retirement, which basically took away a tough season, you know, for the Colts. And just basically, where is this franchise now? The Browns, a lot is expected in 2019. But here we are now, three and one, you know, changes are made and both franchises feeling good about themselves.

Evan, for you, just first, before we even really kind of get into some individual questions on the team, three and one, is this what you were kind of expecting? Or, you know, maybe a little bit of a pleasant surprise that, you know, some things have come along as quickly as they have. Yeah, this is what I was expecting. I actually had them going 4-0 at this point of the year when I did my predictions. I don't think I thought you were losing week one. Yeah, I don't think anyone expected that in week one, honestly, just the way Gardner and Mitchie sliced up that defense. that must have been the way call wake up call they really needed

because from there the last three weeks jeff they've just obliterated the opponents like minnesota the new york jets the chicago bears of course they're subpar teams so not much on the schedule so far as far as competition goes i think this cleveland game is really going to set up well in that category to see how legit this defense is. But there are South King opponents right now. DeForest Buckner is going off wherever he has the chance to. He seems unblockable right now, really giving the same impact to this Colts team that Quentin Nelson did when he was drafted for the offensive line a couple years ago.

But, yeah, I think 3-1 is right around where most people expected it to be. I think just the way it happened, of course, no one expected that to happen with the Jaguars' loss. But I think how they got here is really interesting. Just the way their defense finally seems to be taking that leap forward. Buckner really has changed things for this Colts team being an average defense, too. It looks like at least an above average one, and the offense is more efficient than it was last year. Of course, not putting up more points in the scoreboard right now, but I think it's more of an adjustment period with Phillip Rivers just getting acclimated to

this offense. It's a big upgrade over where Jacoby Brissett was last year as far as accuracy and just aggressiveness down the field. So I think it's been smooth sailing so far for this Colts team. Of course, the lack of competition, you can't control that part. But I think on both sides of the ball on Sunday against this Cleveland Browns team, we're going to find out a lot about them. Just sort of my takeaways from this to the point, and look, I am going to 100% agree with you.

And even with the week one not going your way, this defense is ridiculous. And DeForest Buckner is somebody that we touted on lockdown rounds for ages during his draft process. And then even when the Whisters came around that he was possibly going to be available. Do you think as far as playmakers, and obviously it hasn't really been a factor to this point, is this more where the offense is going to just do what they need to do because they have this much faith in the defense? Or, you know, and I'm not saying that, you know, the way their defense is, I'm not sure that this game is going to be a track meet. But do you think there's enough horses at the skill position that, you know,

if the Colts get into a position where, hey, it's going to take, you know, and they've scored in the 30s, but these were some blowout games. Are they going to be able to do that when they get into some of these games and maybe even if it's in January and you get basically paired up with the Colts and you've got to score a ton of points. I mean, because you look at it, I mean, it's very balanced as far as, you know, the production as far as between the receivers and the tight ends. Obviously, they were hoping for a two-headed running back approach,

similar to the Browns, between, you know, Taylor and Marlon Mack, one of my draft darlings of all time. And, you know, I hope Marlon Mack, you know, everything's going well as far as, you know, surgery and all that stuff and getting back on that. But do you think there's enough there for Phillip to work with on the weeks where it's going to be drive for drive, points for points? Yeah, that's the really big question right now. And honestly, I would say no, just at this stage of the season so far.

And it has a lot to do with injury, honestly. Paris Campbell, he hurt his ACL and PCLA sprain, both those ligaments, when he got tackled by Harrison Smith in week two. So he's out indefinitely, likely until at minimum around Thanksgiving. So that's a huge blow to this Colts offense. Michael Pittman Jr. as well. He's out until the bye week in a couple weeks, so he will not play on Sunday either.

So that means the Colts are right back where they were last year as far as wide receiver depth goes. You have Zach Paschal, who's very underrated on the outside, opposite of T.Y. Hilton. But unfortunately for T.Y., it's kind of worrisome now that he's not really producing much on an elite level anymore. It's been 17 straight games for T.Y. with a 100-plus receiving year a game, which is very worrisome, I think, long-term for a player like T.Y.

who's now in his age 32 season. But looking at just the weapons right now, it's definitely a downgrade from where Rivers was in Los Angeles with Mike Williams, Keenan Allen. So it's going to be a lot. We saw in the last three weeks, too, where if the defense can't at least hold them to 20 points or less, or even more, like we've seen 11 points or less the last three weeks, they're just an elite number for this defense. We're going to see Rivers probably throw the ball around 25 times tops

and really just run it through Jonathan Taylor and his offensive line about 25, 30 times per game. Really try to achieve some balance, keep the turnovers to him. And then Phillip Rivers, who's seen his turnovers really drop down a lot ever since week one due to them really being more run-heavy folks, which we were expecting throughout this year. I think with them, it's really tough with the injuries to Campbell and to Michael Pittman Jr.

T.Y. Hilton looking like he lost a step maybe so early at this point of his career. It's really tough slaying out for this Colts offense if they don't get that running game going. And maybe that could be an advantage for the Browns defense who probably could use a break from running around and chasing around the Dallas Cowboy receiving crew last Sunday because it got to the point where, I mean, it didn't matter. They just, I mean, these guys were

heads on a swivel and it was just, it got to the point where it was kind of brutal. You brought up DeForest Buckner. You brought up Quentin Nelson, Quentin Nelson and I, alums from the same high school here in New Jersey. So it was great to see, you know, hear about his success. I know him. I know the family pretty well. Just great, great people. But it's funny because this is one of the things, and yes, the Browns did score 49 last week.

They've scored over 30 the last two weeks. Both these teams, Evan, they're succeeding with 1980s philosophies. Strong defensive line. Strong offensive line. Hopefully the rest of it will work out. And this just really isn't a trend for a lot of NFL franchises anymore. You know, granted, some of it is, you know, players developed. And, you know, it's not that you made the onus of saying,

we've got to have this, we've got to have this. You know, players have stepped up along the way on both teams. And, you know, Houston, obviously, you know, when becoming, you know, just the player we've seen in the past in his years in Kansas City. But here's two teams succeeding and succeeding well, but, you know, the basis of interior trench play, offensive defense, this isn't valued by a lot of franchises anymore. But it always goes to show you that whatever may be new

doesn't necessarily mean that old can't be new again. Yeah, and that's the thing. Really, two teams that I think are trying to build the same way. Of course, you saw Chris Bauer, what he's done the last couple years at Indianapolis with his draft philosophy going from the inside out. And we saw Andrew Berry, the new Browns GM who was in Philadelphia, also in Indianapolis as well under Bill Pullen for a little bit, really going with the same model this past year in the draft, getting Jedrick Wills, who I think was a home run pick. And we've seen so far in Cleveland for them. He's

really helping anchor that offensive line with the new addition of Jack Conklin as well on the other side of them. I just think that's just a way to stop these teams nowadays, Jeff. If you can't build an offensive monster like Kansas City or like Baltimore, you have to go through and beat them at their own game, so to say, and just be ugly with them. Just build a monster front four on both sides and be able to just bully them into submission and keep that offense off the field a little bit. That's what the Colts are doing, especially now. I mean, draft Jonathan Taylor in the second round, you're probably going to add even more offensive line depth this next draft

to try to find an eventual replacement for Anthony Costanzo, who probably only has one year left before he retires. I just think it goes to show you that these two teams are really trying to go against the grain compared to most offenses nowadays, because, I mean, it's hard. It's almost impossible to find like a Patrick Mahomes to find a Lamar Jackson, but when you do that changes your fortunes. But if you don't have that opportunity,

go with what you can and build the strength of the teams, which is the front four is the interiors of your team and make that an elite strength. And that's what's going to be really fun on Sunday. Jeff is going to see two teams are really trying to build that same model, go up head to head. So you has the best one on both sides right now. Okay. And, you know, we're going to get to –

obviously I'm sure we'll get to injuries and how they may impact this game in the third segment. I just do want to ask one other thing, though. Now, with Anthony Costanza, wasn't he – he was on the fence as far as whether or not he was going to come back this season. And it was the, you know, hey, maybe one more run with the guys before this team, you know, can find a way to replace me. They've done enough here.

And obviously the DeForest Buckner selection kind of took them out of any possibility of getting some of the top tier offensive tackle that was available in the 2020 draft. And look, I ain't going to blame that move any time over. DeForest Buckner has paid off in sp, and he is that good of a player. But he was on the fence as far as whether or not he was going to do this coming back this season. And, look, I mean, never disrespect any of these players. Look, if they felt they've had enough, they've had enough. But he was one of these guys that was really in a difficult spot,

whether or not he was really sure about whether or not his time in this league was over, correct? Yeah, that's right on the money. He actually molded over pretty heavily as far as retiring and as well as being maybe an opt-out candidate for the COVID-19 outbreak. Because Dondo, like Andrew Luck, is very forward-thinking, very smart in his academics. And I think he knows what life is like beyond football. And that's what led Andrew Luck to not want to deal with all those rehab

and injury cycles throughout the first portion of his career. And then right when the team was built perfectly for him, he decided to walk away just due to that injury cycle. And Costanzo, who actually is nursing a rib injury right now, he hasn't looked the same so far this year. It might just be due to him maybe thinking more outside of football or maybe it's more so just him. You can't be elite at every single level every single day.

So maybe it's Costanzo's a little rusty right now, coming back from a shortened training camp. But with this offensive line and with Anthony Costanzo, he did sign a two-year extension this past offseason, so he'll be under contract again for the 2021-2022 season. It will not shock me at all. We saw actually Ed Dodds, the Colts assistant GM, out at North Dakota State for their game where

of course Trey Lance, the quarterback prospect there, but Dylan Radun's the left tackle who's a first round prospect. They might be already looking at left tackles to replace Costanzo after 2021. So it wouldn't shock me at all to see if Costanzo, this next contract could be his last year. Maybe if he does fall physically the rest of the year,

this could be his last year, but I think next year, 2021, is going to be Costanza Swanson here. Well, and there's the old phrase of, you know, once you actually start maybe, you know, using the word retirement in your mind, maybe you're, you know, sort of there, third of the way there, halfway there. But a tough situation. We'll get to this as far as, you know, who might be available, who might not be available come Sunday. Evan is going to hit you with some words from, and this is great when a sponsor like this actually has now developed a, a second product. And it's due to, you know, some of the hard work here from us at the Lockdown Podcast Network promoting

the fine folks at Bill Parr, but go ahead. Evan's going to take it from here and then we're going to start getting into some game thoughts here and predictions. Sure, we'll do predictions. Why not? On your Locked On, Crossover Thursday, Locked On Colts, Locked On Bounce. Let's dive into Bill Go. Like Jeff was mentioning there, a sister of the Bill Barr, Bill Go makes you the best

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We are back now for our third segment of the show for our crossover special today. Evan Sedry of Locked On Colts, joined by Jeff Lloyd of Locked On Browns to preview what I think is the best game of this upcoming weekend slate of games for the NFL in week four. The Colts are 3-1. The Browns are 3-1. It's going to be a fun matchup here, Jeff, as we dive into here with our predictions to close out today's show. What do you think is going to happen here? I mean, we talked about throughout today's show how these teams are trying to build in

a very similar manner. I think we're in for a very, very, very close game on Sunday. Jeff, what do you think? Yeah, and for my Browns listeners, I think everybody's kind of grown accustomed. I mean, just to say the word the Cleveland Browns are leading the AFC in points scored through four weeks, even throwing up a sixer in week one, is a surprise. But I do not believe it's going to go this way on Sunday.

And you may feel confident with this, Evan, where I do. This might be maybe 20 pulls this out. But a lot of this is going to be key. Look, there's injuries, which maybe you can mention here. Obviously, we've talked about Anthony Costanzo. The the two linebackers were key key to the Colts defense um the Browns look Tay Davis didn't practice today Tay Davis probably wouldn't be dressing right now anyway um with Mack Wilson returning with Jacob Phillips returning so him being injured yes good special teams player um but I'm not sure he's a guy who's going to even be dressing anymore at this point,

even if he was healthy. But with Sheldon Richardson and Larry Ogunjobi both out, look, this Colts interior, they're beastly, very similar to the Browns as we've mentioned. If you can't have both of them, it's going to create for a long, long day, I think, for this Browns defense. My guess is you're going to get Sheldon Richardson. Larry Ogunjobi didn't finish the game on Sunday, and Larry Ogunjobi is about as muscular a defensive

tackle as there is. So when you're talking about something about some sort of abdomen injury, it's going to affect him a lot more than it's going to affect your traditional 330-pound defensive tackle. But Sheldon Richardson, hopefully there, which makes for a difference here. But I'm thinking, you know, I'm definitely thinking low scoring. I'm thinking late field goal may win this, you know, 2018, 2017. I got to think because the Browns are at home, you're taking the Colts out of the dome and the Browns, and it's not that the Colts aren't hot right now,

because both teams obviously coming into this riding three game winning streaks. Can the Browns do enough without Nick Chubb? I mean, Kareem hunt, I believe we'll have success, but it's going to come down to, and it's so weird to say this.

And I said this the other day is. Darness Johnson. Cause when anybody thinks of the Browns, besides Browns fans, they're probably saying who was Darness Johnson. Can he fulfill that second spot? Because this team would like to run the ball 40 times a game. That's what they've had success with.

Then there is, can you get another week of Odell being the Odell that we're all used to? And then you look at PFF stuff, and this Colts secondary is fantastic in coverage. You know, obviously I'll say Browns. I'm sure you're going to say Colts. But it's going to be close. This is not going to be something that Browns fans have been accustomed to

the last couple of weeks. This is going to be a long, grind it out. And I'll tell you right now, if either offense makes a crucial mistake, it may be something that neither team can come back from. Yeah, I think it's going to come down really to the margins. Like you mentioned there, Jeff, from the Browns side of things, maybe they try to make it a little ugly too, expecting this defense from the Colts to be legit.

Their secondary, like you mentioned, has done a really good job so far. Xavier Rhodes looked for a vibe in this heavy zone scheme compared to being in a lot of heavy man coverage in Minnesota. He's doing well for himself. Rocky Asin looks like he's taking a leap forward this year in year two as the opposite corner of course Kenny Moore is very underrated in that secondary as well Julian Blackman too he deserves some praise he's one of the more impactful rookie defenders so far at the safety position looks like an upgrade of Malik Hooker already as far as being able to have the ball skills and the tackling ability that Blackman does so So that's going to be a really tough test for that secondary

against, like you mentioned, OBJ, Jarvis Landry, and the rest of that crew for the Browns in that skill positions. But I'm right there with you, Jeff. I think it's going to be a very low-scoring game. I would take the under in this game if I was a betting person just because I think it's going to be one of those slow-fess games. We're going to see one where the Colts and Browns try to beat each other at their own games.

I think it's going to come down just to who can make the less mistakes. If Phil Burrus cannot turn the ball over, that's going to help the Colts an infinite amount. If Jonathan Taylor is able to have that breakout game, I think it's going to really lean it towards the Colts. At this point, I don't know if I can trust this defense this year after that ugly week one performance, but three straight games against some par competition. But if this is legit for the Colts, we're going to know this upcoming Sunday. So I think they are legit with the way that Forrest Buckner's played so far. I think it's fair to say he might be the AFC's defensive player of the year so far.

I wouldn't say he's been the entire NFL, but Buckner really looks like one of the best, if not the best, three-tech in the NFL behind Aaron Donald, who actually has a higher PFF grade right now than Aaron Donald. He has a 90.7. Donald's 87.7, which just shows you how dominant Buckner's been so far. So I think it's going to be, like you mentioned, Jeff, right down the wire. I think a Rodrigo Blankenship field goal at the end there, the rookie from Georgia, Hot Rod, gets it done for the Colts. I'm going to go 23-20 in a really ugly game where, like you mentioned, made the first one to 23-20 points on this one. Let me ask you this though and i'll tell you right now um i'm

sure my crowns listeners are not very happy with you as far as giving away the afc defensive player of the year to anybody other than miles garrett but we'll let that one slide um the two linebackers um where are they at um obviously we know that they did not practice this week are we um i'm not sure did but either finished last week. What are your thoughts on whether or not we see Leonard? And do me a favor and give me the correct pronunciation for Bobby Okereke. Yeah, Bobby Okereke. Okay, I was right.

Yeah, Bobby Okereke out of Stanford. He finished the game on Sunday. Darius Leonard went out in the second quarter of Sunday's game where they pulled Groyne. It was a non-contact injury, so hopefully it's not something that keeps him out on Sunday, but he did not practice on Wednesday. Bobby Okereke did finish the game on Sunday, and it was just a thumb injury, so I think he was out of practice today. I would imagine this is important of a game for the Colts. They can't be down both Okereke and Leonard. I would not be shocked if Leonard doesn't play in this game, Jeff, and Okereke does. He's proven to be really good as far as run defense goes, and maybe he plays with a club on instead. I'd be shocked.

I'd lean more towards Leonard not playing Sunday than I would Okereke. I'd bet more Okereke on that, but I imagine I'd be surprised, honestly, if both those guys play on Sunday. I don't know who's not going to play, but I can't imagine both playing. And Nancy Costanzo didn't practice today due to that rib injury you mentioned before. And if he can't go, it's going to be LaRaven Clark going against Myles Garrett, and that's going to be an ugly one if Costanzo can't go. Well, I mean, look, if Darius Leonard needs a week off, Evan, you've got to give the man a week off.

It's okay. We're okay with it. It's more than we'll understand because it's not like the Browns linebackers have been fantastic or anything even close to good to this point. So maybe it'll even up on that playing field. But I've got to be honest, I'm looking forward to this because this is a test in a different way. Because this is a test in can you play 60 minutes? And a lot of my Browns listeners were, oh, you know, Dallas did this.

The thing was is the Browns got to such a big lead, Dallas was in their familiar position of playing from behind, chucking the rock 500 million times because that's what they've been used to this year. And like I've been telling everybody, well, the Browns aren't good in prevent defense. Yeah, well, you know who's kind of good in prevent defense? The Patriots.

You want to know why? Because they've been playing prevent defense for two decades. If you never win, you're not really good at playing prevent defense. So this might not be a factor this week. It's going to be more of a factor, and this is a different type of test for the Browns, because this is going to be one where, you know, the 56th, the 57th, the 58th minute could make the difference in this game. So that's going to be interesting to see how this plays out for both of these teams, obviously on Sunday. Jeff, always enjoy the conversations we have.

Of course we've linked up before last year when they've squared off as well as when you look ahead to just the off season to the Browns and the Colts are one of the more intriguing teams in the AFC. And this one will maybe come back to see if the winner of this game does have a better higher seed than, let's say, the Colts or the Browns on Sunday. Those teams will score off. You guys can go follow Jeff on Twitter at Jeff underscore LJ underscore Lloyd and go follow at LockedOnBrowns as well for them.

And for the Browns fans listening, you can follow me on Twitter with our LockedOnColts page on Twitter at LockedOnColts. Jeff, appreciate your time, man. Oh, anytime, Evan. And, you know, obviously, guys, this was tough for both of us. Evan covers your Indianapolis Colts, but he's currently doing it from the West Coast. And as my Browns listeners do, no, I'm covering them from New Jersey.

So it took a little while doing, but, of course, we were able to put together a great show. You know, both of us are passionate about what we do and just thrilled to be here with this, you know, with the Lockdown Podcast Network as it continues to grow and gives us, you know, an opportunity. You just, you know, as the weeks and the months grow on to, you know, reach hundreds and thousands and thousands of more people listening to our content.

And we're just thrilled to do it. And I'm looking forward to it. I really am. And it's going to be a good one and it's going to be a little bit different. And like we said earlier, where we were talking about these teams, you know, succeeding with an older style of, you know, roster building mentality, this game is probably going to look like that and something maybe from,

you know, the, the late eighties to early nineties, you know, before we reached the, you know, first one, the 60 wins.