Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Deep dive into the Carson Wentz trade

Episode Date: February 22, 2021

On today's episode, Stephen Reed of Stampede Blue joins Evan to dish his thoughts on the Carson Wentz from all angles. What are the biggest takeaways from Wentz becoming Indy's new QB1?From the trade compensation, Wentz's fit with the Indianapolis Colts on/off the field, the Frank Reich connection, and a possible contract steal, all aspects are analyzed in this one.Want to learn more about the Indianapolis Colts' starting quarterback? You won't want to miss this one as we kick off a busy week on the podcast covering all things Carson Wentz. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello everybody, welcome back to your latest episode of Locked On Colts, your team every day. Today's always your host, Evan Satteridge, Hello everybody, welcome back to your latest episode of Locked On Colts, where you lock on podcast network. Today's always your host, Evan Satteridge, joined by Steven Reed of Stampede Blue. To dive more into the course of Wentz trade, we have a great lineup of guests throughout this week.

We can talk through the course of Wentz trade. Steven, you're up first this week, as we are going to get your thoughts here on the Wentz trade, the blockbuster move that the Colts made with the Eagles to get Wentz for a third round. They give a third round pick as well as a conditional second round pick that could turn to a first round pick next year based on snap percentages and to Colts meet the playoffs in one of those scenarios as well.

And like you posted on Twitter earlier today, Steve, you kind of called this trade when we were recording that before it happened. Who knew that was going to be almost a nearly identical compensation on that. Just how are you doing today, man? And what's your thoughts on this whole Wentz situation? I'm doing well today. Yeah, i'm excited for the colts um you know i i was a little surprised that in terms of uh the value that it was the the third and then a conditional two um that was that caught me off guard because i mean realistically looking at the conditions of

that that conditional second round pick, it's probably going to end up being a first round pick unless one of two things happen. Either the Carson Wentz gets hurt or the Colts just tank. And I don't really, you know, you never want a guy to get hurt or anything like that. So it looks like it's probably going to be a three and a one, which ironically enough is the kind of like the Matthew Stafford package, which is what Harry Roseman talked about, like wanting to get the entire time.

So it's weird because he got a current three, which is what the Rams gave up and then a future one ultimately. Now that obviously there's some conditions tied to the Colts where it could end up being a two. But when you think about it, and you think about Carson Wentz and what he could mean for the Colts, it makes you have a little bit more hope. Yeah, last year he was beyond terrible,

but if you go back and start watching that film, I think everybody you've had on as far as talk about how Carson Wentz was basically having to play hero ball. I mean, he was Andrew Luck back in those eight and eight seasons. He was trying. He didn't have anything around him. Didn't have an offensive line. He was getting hit like crazy um i want to say he

got he got sacked like 50 times um in last last season um something like that it was like he got sacked 50 times last season in 12 games and then you wonder if that's going to play with a guy's head yeah of course it is. Like you're looking at getting sacked on average, what, more than four times a game as a quarterback? I mean, I don't think the Colts gave up more than 20 last year. I don't know what the actual number of the Colts gave up last year, but I know it wasn't anywhere close to that

over the course of the entire 16-game season. And so I look at the Carson Wentz situation and the trade itself, and I'm pretty happy with the value that the Colts got with it. You hate to give up a first round pick, but if this plays out well for the Colts, then you give a third and a future first every single day of the week for somebody that you think can be a franchise quarterback. And then if it doesn't work out, the Colts, the financial obligations aren't terrible if they need to cut him. And then

you add in, if he's terrible, you bench him and you move on. You only give up a third and a second round pick. And when you look at other trades more recently that have involved first round picks like Stefan Diggs, Andrew Brandt put this out that Stefan Diggs got traded for a first round pick last year. Jamal Adams got traded for two first round picks. So you've got a wide receiver and a safety being traded for a first round pick in the current draft. And then two first round picks in the Jamal Adams trade.

So to be able to get a quarterback, and yes, he had a terrible season. Yes, the Colts had all the leverage in this trade negotiation. But if there is – there's not a better place for Carson Wentz to go than Indianapolis because he has the offensive line here that we've all talked about at this point. He's got the offensive line, Jonathan Taylor, a legitimate running back. I mean, the best running back he had before was Jay Ajayi. And I think LeGarrette Ballant when they won the Superbowl. And then he had Miles Sanders more recently.

He's never had really a true number one wide receiver. It's just really difficult to see. I look at this and I say, how is Howie Roseman still have a job? There's like so many different angles we can go at right now. But I'll leave that to another question or another time talking about the Eagle situation itself. You know, I'm just really excited for the Colts to get that quarterback question, at least for this season and next season, answered and to see what Frank Wright can do with Carson Wentz. Because I think Carson Wentz is fixable. I really do. And so I think overall, it's a good trade. It's a little bit of a gamble, but you're not going to, it's a little bit risk reward. And, but if you're not going to put out that risk, like you're going to be sitting there with Jacoby Brissett. And I don't think any Colts fans really wanted that option going forward. So I like the trade for the Colts. I don't think they gave up a ton. I think it was ultimately when you look at the value,

it's basically like two current thirds for Carson Wentz. Cause Andrew Brandt put this out there that usually when you trade a future second round pick it, the value is the round later in the current draft. So ultimately the Colts got Carson Wentz for present-day value of two third-round picks. Can't beat that. Let's talk about Frank Reich and his connection there with Carson Wentz, Stephen, because obviously I think many Colts fans might not know this, even though Frank Reich, of course, was Carson Wentz offensive coordinator

in 2016 and 2017 for you. Of course, did the Colts job in 2018. But he was a part of the scouting process for Carson Wentz, North Dakota State. He was the one who was actually fully on board with Carson Wentz. I read an article, I think it was from 2018, from the Athletics, Bo Wolfe, who covers the Eagles over there for the Athletic. And he did a deep dive back then on Carson Wentz, the whole scouting process. This is really when Wentz is at his peak in 2017, 2018 for the Eagles.

And that whole process that went into it. And Frank Reich was 100% on board with Carson Wentz. He kind peak in 2017-2018 for the Eagles and that whole process that went into it and Frank Reich was 100% on board Carson Wentz just kind of was driving that train so to say for the Eagles I posted that video as well Frank Reich talking to Carson Wentz on draft day after they picked them just that connection that those two guys have was immense you could tell it on that video as well but this is what Doug Peterson said about Frank Reich and that story that Bo Wolfe put out in 2018 quote Frank would probably be the one that was probably like all in and the rest of us were like 99% all in so of course everyone was on board the Eagles but it seems like obviously Frank Reich was a driving force behind this he has complete conviction in Carson Wentz it sounds like we've heard from likes of Adam Kaplan and others that that Frank Reich

really wanted to get Wentz on board even even after his subpar season in Philadelphia in 2020. What do you think of the connection with Frank Reich and Carson Wentz, because it feels like to me that this is all Frank Reich, and Frank Reich has to feel very confident at this point he can fix Carson Wentz, and if that does happen, the Colts have an above-average quarterback possibly for the next decade. Frank Reich, I think he was a driver here too in terms of of pushing for Carson Wentz and I think if there was going to be any coach that could really fix and connect with Carson Wentz

it was going to be Frank Reich like I was going to bring up the video that you posted earlier it's I'll tell you tell you everybody this it's it's irregular for the offensive coordinator of a team to be one of the guys that they video and they tape talking to the prospect or talking to the draftee, especially the number two over overall pick. Normally it's like the general manager, then it goes straight to the owner and then it's the head coach. And then the person gets off the phone and parties with their family. The fact that they had Frank Wright on video talking to him on draft night right after they

picked it shows just the connection that Frank Reich made. And so a lot of people last year talked about Carson Wentz and the issues that he had were between his, you know, this four inches between his ears or whatever, whatever the measurement is. But four inches between his ears um or whatever whatever the measurement is uh but that space between his ears was was the issue to a point and you know you get sacked 50 times in 12 games yeah okay you're going to get a little bit jumpy um but if there's ever going to be a coach that's going to be able to work with a quarterback and get that respect and work with him and work out those kinks, those mental kinks and have the trust of the quarterback, it's Frank Reich. And so I think it's just a perfect match for Carson Wentz because if he's not, if Carson Wentz can't get his career back together after the lackluster year he had last year really it was a dumpster fire

year last year um but if he can't get his act together after last year with frank reich and the indianapolis colts in this roster then his career is probably over at that point and he just probably would be a journeyman backup quarterback but if you look at his stats even through the first four years he was still pretty good in 2019 when he was going through and basically elevating the entire Eagles team he played 16 games in 2019 he had a quarterback rating of 93 the The year before it was 102. The year before that, the quote-unquote MVP season, he had a quarterback rating of 101.9. So the past three years, he was three years prior in 2017 to 2019, he was really a good quarterback. He was a top 10 quarterback in the league. And I don't think anybody would question that. And so that's what made the selection of Jalen Hurts by the Eagles so much more confusing.

Because they had just signed Carson Wentz to a big-time extension. And then they drafted. And he was coming off a really good year. Led him to the playoffs and everything. And then they drafted Jalen Hurts. So, you know, it took a toll on him mentally to have that happen. And then to have Doug Peterson, for whatever reason, bench Carson Wentz, like 12 games into the season, bench ultimately was your franchise quarterback.

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12 games into the season and go with this rookie, the second round rookie that you didn't have training camp. You didn't have anything else. He's not getting first team reps for most of the season. And you just kind of throw him in there. Yeah, okay. You're fracturing that relationship with the quarterback. And there was a lot of trust lost between Carson Wentz and, you know,

Doug Peterson and Howie Roseman. And coming into Indianapolis, having Frank Reich as your head coach, having somebody that you trust and having, you know, they're both very strong men of faith. And so I think that helps build that relationship and help strengthen that relationship. And so Frank Reich really is the perfect coach to try to bring Carson Wentz back. And I think they're going to have him work with Tom House. I think he's going to be a great situation for Carson Wentz here in Indianapolis

and couldn't have a better coach with Frank Reich to be able to lead the ship for him. Let's sit on the offense, too, for a moment, because we saw last year Phillip Rivers, very efficient, a huge upgrade from what we saw in 2019, as Jacoby Bruce said. The offense just took another level forward, even with an unmovable quarterback like Rivers. Very cerebral at the line of scrimmage, very accurate quarterback as well.

Carson Wentz is a little bit different. I'd say he's a little less accurate, of course, than Phillip Rivers, maybe a little less control at the line of scrimmage or as far as the acumen that Phillip Rivers had for the game. Carson Wentz, he's still up there at least, but not the level of Phillip Rivers, a 17-year veteran when he joined the Colts. But very athletic is Carson Wentz. He can get out of the pocket.

He can escape pressure. Andrew Luck-esque, so to say. I wouldn't put him on Luck's level, but I'd say he's about a level below Luck as far as his ability to create out of a modal pocket. And he'd do some really special things out of there. I know it was a really bad year last year, but from 2017 to 2019, Wentz had 81 touchdowns, 21 interceptions, almost a four to one touchdown interception ratio. It seems like to me with Frank Reich's offense, Steven, it's going to be a lot of rollouts with Wentz. It's going to be a lot of play action, which you really saw last year at at Phillip Rivers I think it's going to really help open up the offense even

more for guys like Michael Pittman Jr. even Jonathan Taylor in the running game as well Paris Campbell if he stays healthy this is going to be a very intriguing offense and maybe some wrinkles we haven't seen in a year or two for the Colts offense with Wentz on board. It definitely having Carson Wentz definitely opens up opens up the offense for the Colts it's with Phillip Rivers as we all know he was more of a statue back there you never when you would do play action or any kind of boot around I don't even know how many boots they bootlegs they called um off of play action you used to see that a lot with Peyton Manning where he would do the play fake and then roll out. You didn't see that with Phillip Rivers.

And the defensive end didn't respect it with Phillip Rivers either. And so the defensive end linebacker didn't respect it, so they never held when they tried to fake that handoff. So I think Carson Wentz adds a couple wrinkles to this system. And it's not just the RPO stuff, because everybody's going to talk about that. But it adds a level of playmaking and evasiveness that he just didn't have with with Philip Rivers. Like once pressure got to Philip Rivers, he kind of just went down. Now, the good thing about Philip Rivers is there is not a defense that any team could play in the NFL that he didn't know what was happening on it.

You could not confuse Philip Rivers. And so that's the one thing that Philip Rivers has in spades over Carson Wentz is that his ability to recognize defenses and know exactly what's happening and what they're giving him is is was his biggest strength honestly because he knew where he was going to go with the ball he would even one of my favorite stories was when he would Philip Rivers told the linebacker a blitzing linebacker that he was out of position for the blitz they were going to run and I want to say it was J.J. Watt that told this story he was like well sure enough if he wasn't right that that Phillip Rivers was calling him out for the for the blitz being wrong

and so Carson Wentz isn't going to get to that level mentally but he makes up for that physically in what he can do a way he can extend, the way that he can open up the offense, not just in the RPO, but also vertically. He's got a big arm. He likes to throw deep. He likes to throw those vertical seam routes and throws to jump balls to receivers that just go up. And those 50-50 balls, and you expect to have that wide receiver

that can come in and go get that ball that Carson Wentz likes to throw up there. So I think it's going to open up the offense in a couple different ways. Obviously, the RPO is where he's going to, the defense is going to have to respect that and respect Carson Wentz. And if you can get the defensive end, linebacker, safety, those guys to hesitate for even half a second, that's the difference between Jonathan Taylor running for three yards and 30. In the NFL, the time and that fraction of a second makes all the difference. And so if you've got that weapon in

Carson Wentz, and you saw that last year, like some of their more successful plays were him rolling out. They still instituted some of that RPO. If you go back to 2018 with the Colts, Frank Reich, with Andrew Luck, they were very effective in making that RPO call. And Carson Wentz is a physical runner like Andrew Luck was. And he's able to get that first down if he needs to. So I think this is going to open up the offense in a number of ways. And I think it's going to be a real blessing for Jonathan Taylor because defenses aren't going to be able to key on him when they do that play action pass.

And I think you're going to see a ton of play action passes just because of the offensive line that the Colts have and the running back that the Colts have it's it's really a perfect situation and Carson Wentz is a perfect player for that type of offense yeah I'm glad you brought that up a great segue there Steve I was just going to hit on the fit with Wentz and Indy. You have Jonathan Taylor in the running game. You have Quentin Nelson up front leading that offensive line, a top five, top three offensive line consensus around the NFL. If you talk to most front offices in the league, you have to imagine maybe number one by most teams,

even though they lost to Indy Costando. You have to imagine they addressed that in the draft early on this year to replace Costando. But you have the offensive line in the running game. You have young playmakers like Michael Pittman at wide receiver. Paris Campbell, like I mentioned, he stays healthy. T.Y. Hilton, or a big name at wide receiver and BF3,

makes a lot of sense. Maybe you bring back T.Y. on a cheaper deal because we all know Chris Bauer doesn't really like to splurge that much when it comes to wide outs. So I think probably T.Y. makes a lot more sense. We're talking about a realistic scenario there. But you have T.Y. possibly back. You have Campbell. You have Pittman. You a realistic scenario there. But you have T.Y. possibly back. You have Campbell. You have Pittman.

You have Paschal. Then you have reliable tight ends in Jack Dwell and Malde Cox, who's really emerging into his own. The running game with Jonathan Taylor. Naeem Hines is your scab bag to play a Darren Sproles role that Wentz really enjoyed when Sproles was there in Philadelphia. It's kind of the perfect environment when you toss in Frank Reich, Chris Taylor as well, Mike Groh, three of the top four coaches on the offensive staff there

who are familiar with Carson Wentz from his Philadelphia days, it seemed to me really this is almost a perfect fit for Wentz to really hide those warts that he showed last year in Philly. Yeah, they've got all the offensive weapons here in Indianapolis that they just don't – like, again, I go back to Howie Roseman and how they hit lightning in a bottle that, that year they won the super bowl. And they just had the perfect combination of players there that year.

Mainly on the defensive line. But ever since then, that whole team was imploded. He lost weapons right and left from that offense and, or he wasn't even given them after, after that Superbowl year. And so to come into Indianapolis, to have Michael Pittman Jr. and potentially Paris Campbell there, possibly T.Y. Hilton back, or maybe, maybe another, like I mentioned earlier,

a vertical threat that can go up and get the ball is something the Colts need. So somebody like a Corey Davis from the Tennessee Titans makes a lot of sense in free agency. He's not going to break the bank. Somebody that can get vertical and go up and get a ball is key for Carson Wentz and his success. But to have that offensive line that I wish I had the stat number. I want to say it was like 19 sacks. It was less than 30 sacks on the year for the Colts. So I just don't – like, Phillip Rivers was sacked 19 times.

So I was right. It was 19 sacks on the year. Jacoby Brissett was sacked twice. But those plays were jacob rousset plays or we'll just thankfully they're not going to be in the playbook um but philip philip rivers was sacked 19 times and philip rivers isn't mobile like defenses knew exactly where he was going to be and so to put carson wentz in a situation where I don't know if he's ever had a season where he had under like 30 sacks, like the guy was hit a ton playing. It was, and part of that is his fault for holding

onto the ball for too long because he tried to extend plays. It's very similar to Andrew Luck in his play style, doing everything he could to extend plays. He always keeps his eyes downfield looking for that big play. So, yeah, Carson Wentz is the most – they're the least sacks he's ever had was in that 2017 season in Philadelphia where he only played 13 games before tearing his ACL and was sacked 28 times. And so he is going to be, he's going to have such a unique experience now playing behind the Colts offensive line.

And I do think that they were going to address the left tackle position early in the draft. It's something that we taught. We've talked about this a couple of times now on different episodes, but once they do that and really give him protection and they give him the running game with Naeem Hines and Jonathan Taylor to be able to take that pressure off of him, because really this is going to be one of the first times in Carson Wentz's career, both here in Indianapolis

and at North Dakota State, where he doesn't have to be the guy. Like he doesn't have to carry the team on his back week in and week out. Like he just has to game manage and not screw it up. And I think that the Colts really are the perfect situation that if he can, if he needs to win a game, the Colts trust him to go win a game. They trust him to go do it versus what they've had in the past where,

you know, with Jacoby Bursette, the Colts, you know, they just wanted him not to lose the game. You know, and Phillip Rivers, they tried to have him go win the game, and most of the time he would. He was pretty effective in the fourth quarter, barely late in the season. And now you're coming into Carson Wentz, who's just a different type of playmaker. And he really gives the Colts in this offense a boost

in terms of that quarterback position, the most important position in the offense. And it's going to be a huge boost for the Colts. And I think that they're going to really, you're going to see a very different offense and it's going to be better for Jonathan Taylor. You're going to see probably more bigger numbers from Michael Pittman because Alshon Jeffrey was like Carson Wentz's favorite target in Philadelphia. And if you look at the measurables between Alshon Jeffrey and Michael

Pittman Jr., Michael Pittman Jr. is like a faster, bigger version of Alshon Jeffrey in terms of the way he plays. And so I think you're going to see an instant connection there. You've got good tight ends here in Indianapolis, which again, Carson Wentz loved to use the tight ends and Frank Reich loves to use the tight ends. So it really does work really well. Mo'Ally Cox should be able to explode this year. Jack Doyle should have a resurgent career again. Not again, but he should have a resurgent year in his career this year.

If given the opportunity, I expect the Colts to look at possibly getting a tight end, either one that was cut. I expect Zach Ertz to be cut from Philadelphia, to be honest, or going on free agency and getting a guy like Hunter Henry. But Carson Wentz really just takes this offense to another level and takes a lot of pressure off of those skill position players where they have to get the yards and everything like that, because you have a quarterback that you trust that can get out of the pocket, that can extend plays, that can make things. It's something that we've talked about throughout the entire season and how

the Colts defense, who is a top five, top 10 defense for most of the year, the guys that they had trouble with, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Deshaun Watson, guys that could get out of the pocket, extend plays. That's what the Colts are going to have now on offense. And it's going to put a lot of pressure on opposing defenses. And it's going to give the Colts offensive players a great opportunity to be in a better position to win week in and week out. Last few questions I have for you here, Stephen. Looking at Kirsten Wentz's contract that the Colts now have absorbed, he's going to have

a cap number of $25.4 million in 2021. Then from there, from 2022 through 2024, it's going to be $22 million, $25 million, and $26 million. So a total of four years, $98.4 million. And then after 2022, I think it's $15 million guaranteed in 2022,

fully guaranteed in 2021. They can get off of it in two years, but if all goes well, that's a four-year, $15 million guaranteed in 2022, fully guaranteed in 2021. They can get off of it in two years. But if all goes well, that's a four-year, $98 million contract for Carson Wentz to be your starting quarterback. Compared to today's market, Stephen, for quarterbacks, that's a huge discount and one where the Colts can honestly build around for a little bit and keep adding pieces to this roster because we see the Mahomes and eventually the Dak Prescots

and the Russell Wilsons, Aaron Rodgers, make $35-plus million a year, and Carson Wentz won't be coming close to that. The most he'll make is $26 million for a cap number in the last year's contract three years from now. So it kind of shows you that this contract, even though it might have been seen as an overpay, if he does well in Indianapolis, Stephen, that's going to be a huge bargain of a contract for the Colts to work around for the next three to four years. Exactly. If Carson Wentz works out, this is a steal in terms of contracts. Because like you said, you've got guys like Patrick Mahomes, it's 40 plus million. You've got Dak Prescott, who's asking for 40 million. That's the number right now for

those franchise quarterbacks and if Carson Wentz returns to form like he did from 2017 to 2019 um because you know we we all kind of poo-pooed his 2020 season because it was it terribly bad but he had one down year all the rest of the years that he's played in the NFL he's been pretty darn good and so if he returns to form and he's under a coach that he trusts which he does in frank reich if he's in an offense that really accentuates what he does well which he will be and he returns to form and he is a top 10 quarterback in the nfl this is an absolute steal for chris ballard to have him under contract for four years at an average of like, I think it's 24.7 million, something along those lines for the next four

years. And if he just completely bombs out this year, you know, the Colts bench him, they cut him there. It's $15 million dead cap charge in 2022. And I know that the, I think it's on March 19th, the 15 million of the, of his 2022 salary becomes fully guaranteed. And so they've, they've got some outs if he's terrible. I don't think he will be. And if he is good and he's a top 10 quarterback in the NFL, which I think he can get to again. And honestly, I think he can get to be a top five with this offense, then the Colts are getting an absolute steal. And what you're able to do with that money, that extra basically $15 million a year that you're saving, not paying that top tier franchise guy,

paying Carson that's $25 million a year, you can use that money to extend guys like a Quentin Nelson, like a Darius Leonard, like a Kyrie Willis when he comes up, like a Bobby Okereke when he comes up, like a Braden Smith. I know Darius Leonard and Braden Smith are coming up here pretty soon, Quentin Nelson right after that. And so having a quarterback that's not being paid $40 million gives you a lot of opportunities to reallocate that salary cap money to other players that are totally deserving and allows Chris Ballard to keep his own, which has been his mantra from the very beginning, from his opening press conference, talking about how he wants the stadium filled

with players, fans wearing the jerseys of players that they drafted, not necessarily Manning or Clark or Freeney or Wayne or Harrison, but, you know, looking at, you know, having guys that he brought in like Leonard and Nelson and Smith and Taylor and Pittman and all these guys. And so I think the Colts are in just, I think it's a great spot for them, for the Colts as a whole. And it's just a great contract for the Colts if he works out.

And even if he doesn't, a $15 million dead cap charge for the Colts next year is not a lot given the way that Chris Ballard has been so shrewd and how he has made his salary cap funk that made the salary cap really work for him uh and the Colts and that's really you know a huge huge congrats the to the cap guy there and whoever negotiates the contracts for the Colts because they're able to have this money this year to bring Carson Wentz in and still have the fourth most salary cap space

even after the Carson Wentz contract comes in. They've only got, I think, $255,000 in dead money this year. So it just shows how efficient the Colts are with contracts. And if he doesn't work out, they cut him. It's a $15 million charge on the cap. Not that big of a deal. And then if he works out, then they've got to steal for the next four years. Built Bar is the best tasting protein bar ever.

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get an early look at which top prospects may be available for your team over at Locked on NFL Draft. Subscribe to Locked on NFL Draft wherever you get your podcasts. Looking at the locker room aspect, this is something I brought up in the show with guys like George Berman and Jim Ilo over the past week of the show after the Wentz trade happened on Thursday.

But what was your overall assessment of the Philadelphia locker room there, Steven, because it just seems like to me just a lot of mistrust there in the locker room, a lot of mistrust in the front office there too with Howie Roseman. It just seemed like that relationship was fractured. Same thing with Adam Schechter reporting that Doug Peterson, Carson Winston talked for like eight to 10 weeks through the 2020 season. Just a lot of tumultuous stuff going on there in Philly.

Really the poor opposite now in Indianapolis, Stephen. You have a strong locker room. It's in like every single Colts player tweeted out at Carson Wentz or like Julian Blackman posted that text message that Carson Wentz said. You also have other guys on the team sending out stuff to Carson Wentz saying welcome to the family. The strong locker room that Chris Bouts put together really is going to team sending out stuff to Carson Wentz saying welcome to the family. The strong locker room that Chris Ballard put together really is going to help out a guy like Carson Wentz

who needs to mentally be – and his confidence has to be put back together. And that's really the biggest aspect here for Carson Wentz is all the physical talent in the world. But also you have Chris Ballard, you have Frank Reich, two guys who are not in the hot seat at all, two guys that are known to be the best at their jobs. You also have the connections with Wright, Groh, and Press Taylor on the staff as well.

It seemed like to me just the environment overall for Carson Wentz, the polar opposite of what he saw in Indy, which should see a mental bounce back for Carson Wentz, which could get him back to that top 10 QB form. Absolutely. That Philadelphia locker room was toxic, and that Philadelphia organization appears to be toxic. You've got one of the

most telling things i thought was after the carson wentz trade was announced just the number of of former players um of former current players that tweeted out publicly how happy they were for carson wentz to get out of there not that they were happy he was how happy they were for Carson Wentz to get out of there. Not that they were happy he was gone because they were like good riddance, but happy that he was moving on away from that, away from Philadelphia, away from that toxicity that had grown and just billowed out of that building. It blows my mind that Carson Wentz sat there and Carson Wentz and Doug Peterson didn't talk for eight to 10 weeks. That's your starting quarterback and your head coach. And to have them not have a conversation, that tells you everything you need to know about

that locker room. Because a head coach, that shouldn't happen and I think it comes straight down from Howie Roseman like I mentioned earlier the the drafting of Jalen Hurts really kind of I think we all kind of laughed at it when it happened in the draft I know I did I said you know what are you what are you guys thinking you've got a franchise quarterback. You just gave him a $134 million contract, a four-year extension on $134 million with 30-something, like 50 or 60-something guaranteed and a $34 million signing bonus. What are you guys thinking?

Why are you drafting a quarterback in the second round? This makes no sense. And so you had that happen to start. You had players that were really frustrated with Howie Roseman. And what really is telling about the Philadelphia organization and the way Howie Roseman has run it is he's gone, this is his fourth coach, Nick Sirianni. I feel really bad for Nick Sirianni to go there

because it seems like this is going to be, they're going to blow this thing up again, let Howie Roseman try to build it up for a fourth time. And Nick Sirianni is going to be there and he's going to be left with the bag in two years. And they're going to say, oh, well, you weren't able to make these, you know, batch of misfit toys into winners. And I don't, I just think that the philadelphia delphi organization is broken howie roseman has like a jack easterby like easterly like hold on jeff lorry i think i just don't i just don't understand it um how it got to that but you know the colts are a great situation it was it was funny like when you saw the day that the traded was announced on Thursday that that day Carson Wentz was on a he booked a private jet with

his wife flew out to Indianapolis and started looking for places to live like he couldn't wait to be out of that city and out of that franchise fast enough to where the day the trades announced he's coming to Indianapolis. So that tells you the, the tweets from the Philadelphia, the former Eagles players and Carson Wentz getting out of there as fast as he did tells you everything you really need to know about what was going on in that locker room and in that organization. So I wish Nick Sirianni the best. I hope that he's able to turn it around and, and they still become a good team in the future.

I just don't have a lot of faith in that. I don't have a lot of faith in, in the Philadelphia front office and, and Howie Roseman specifically. And it doesn't sound like a lot of players had faith in him either. So I'm glad for Carson Wentz to get out of that situation. I'm glad for him to get to stability and a culture and a locker room that really will appreciate him

and really try to nurture him and make sure that he grows into this team. And it's going to be an accepting locker room and it's going to be a coach that he trusts. And it's going to be a general manager that is arguably the best general manager in the NFL currently. And so I just think it's a perfect situation for Carson Wentz to get out of that toxic environment in Philadelphia and come to the culture and come to the locker room here in

Indianapolis. Last one here for you, Steven. Appreciate the time as always come on the podcast. A really interesting aspect we haven't really dove into just yet is the compensation of this trade like we talked about at the top of the podcast the Colts of course get number 84 overall plus a conditional 2022 second round pick that could turn into a first if Carson Wentz plays 75% of the snaps or they get into the playoffs really interesting that type of overall compensation because the Colts keep it number 21 number 54 overall pick in the draft they also have an out where Carson Wentz plays bad next year they can bench for the last three or four games

and get off of that and not even be a first round pick or if Wentz gets hurt so to say they still only keep it as a second round pick compared to a 2022 first round pick but like we talked about throughout the show if that's a first round pick of 2022 that means everything went well for Indianapolis that means everything went well for Carson Wentz and And that's an easy, easy trail to get your franchise quarterback for a first-round pick at 2022. I imagine being in the mid-20s anyways. I think, honestly, Stephen, looking at this overall from that lens of the compensation,

Chris Ballard, we heard about from all the reports, sent this offer in, never changed from the very beginning a couple weeks ago, sending that number 84 overall pick and the conditional second into a first to Howie Roseman. Ros tried to drum interest in the media didn't work at all tried to get a hold of other teams didn't work at all then he circled back around to chris ballard and just said okay i'll just take this and obviously the colts were i think were winners in this trade without the compensation went but let me get your opinion steve on the compensation with the colts get up there the third number the number 84 overall pick, plus that conditional

pick in 2022, plus keeping the number 21 and 54 overall picks in this year's draft, your first, second round picks, stay on board there, spend a third round pick this year on possibly your franchise quarterback. I think it's huge not only for the Colts to pay that price that they did that wasn't as much as we thought it would be originally, but also from

the Chris Bowers point of view, you keep your first, second round pick in this year's draft you keep your first, second-round pick in this year's draft where you can really, really do some damage in this year's draft, even with giving up a third-round pick. Yeah, the Colts keeping – Chris Ballard keeping 21 and 54 was huge in this draft – in this pick or in this trade. They can do so much, and you've seen Chris Ballard do so much in the draft with what he does with first-round picks.

I think the only one that he's kept and hasn't traded in the first round was Malik Hooker at 15 overall, his very first pick. I think pretty much every other first-round pick he's dropped out of the first round and traded back or traded for a player. Like, for example, last year he traded for DeForest Buckner, which obviously worked out well. And so you look at what he's going to do. And I think in the draft, keeping 21 gives him so many options because he's going to be able to, unless an elite left tackle falls like Rashawn Slaterater or christian derisau or you know if he really likes sam cosme somebody like that then if one of those guys doesn't fall to 21 then he's

going to trade back and he's going to recoup that third round pick that he gave away for carson and so yeah okay i know on a one-to-one ratio it's not like he's getting that pick back for carson wentz that pick for carson wentz is gone but he's going to end the draft with seven picks or however many picks he ends with um and it's going to be able to make up for the fact that he was able to trade for carson wentz and so you're effectively still going to get your third round pick. And what Chris Ballard has said in the draft before, and this is his kind of pedagogy, if you would, to draft picks is in the first round, he's got about 10, 15 players that he grades his first round picks. And then he's got about 40 players he grades his second round picks.

So dropping back from 21 to 40 and picking up an extra round two pick next year, for example, that's not as big of a drop in terms of talent if he's got all those guys similarly graded. So I thoroughly expect Chris Ballard to use 21 and or 54 to move back in the draft to pick up either a future second round pick or a current third round pick and try to recoup his picks in this draft in that manner.

The fact that he was able to get away with only giving up a third round pick this year and then a second round pick next year, that's probably going to be a first is just amazing to me. And really pre it really goes to Chris Ballard's acumen as a general manager and how well he's able to make trades. And that's an underrated, underrated aspect of what Chris Ballard does and how well he does as a general manager is

he wins almost every trade he's in uh you know the the Jets trade that's a win the DeForest Buckner trade that's that's a win right now at the Carson Wentz trade giving up only a third and ultimately in terms of value another third round pickround pick, that's a huge win for Chris Ballard. And so I think it was massive that he was able to keep 21 and keep the flexibility to be able to move around in the draft with that pick. And so I think ultimately the Colts are going to be the big winners of this trade. But I just don't think that – I just think it was huge for him to be able to keep 21 and 54. Steven always enjoy having you on the podcast. If you have not already listeners,

go ahead and go follow Steven on Twitter at nice read Steve and go read and listen to his work as always over on stampede blue.com. Steven appreciate the time here as we dove in a little deeper into this Carson Winstead. All right. Thanks Evan. Have a great one.