Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - GOODBYE: Philip Rivers Likely Done with Indianapolis Colts + Chris Ballard's Drafting Failures

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Indianapolis Colts are potentially saying goodbye to Philip Rivers for the last time. Or are they? Let's get to it. You are Locked on Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome to the Locked on Colts podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, now the number one sports podcast network around. Hello, everyone. My name is Zach Hickshaw Resident Film Nerd at Horseshoehuddle.com.

Starting point is 00:00:34 And today I'm joined by Ben Bores at Colts Film Room. You guys know him. You love him over there on social media. Your favorite pessimist alongside me on Colts media at this point. Today we're going to dive into Philip Rivers. Just one last time, I promise the last time we'll talk about Philip Rivers because it does appear that this past game against the Jacksonville Jaguars was his final game with the Colts.

Starting point is 00:00:57 all signs are pointing to Riley Leonard starting this weekend. So we'll talk about Phil and how this was such a remarkable thing that we saw out of a 44-year-old coming in off the couch. Then we'll dive into a little bit of Chris Ballard topics like you guys love here. Talk about Chris Ballard's drafting as of late, which just hasn't been good enough for the Colts to get that surplus value when a team like the Texans, for instance, have been getting a ton of surplus value on their draft picks.

Starting point is 00:01:23 And then talk about some tough decisions coming this offseason and how Ben and I have identified. identified the Samson Ebukom conversation of this upcoming off season. We'll talk about that to close out today's show. But then you and I are big time film nerds. We're just big time football dorks. And that's how we brand ourselves when it comes to how we cover the Colts. So looking at Phillip Rivers, coming in cold, five years, you know, eating all the food he wants, not working out to play in the NFL, not going through the motions of an NFL off season or developing chemistry with players, comes in here, plays against two of the three best defenses in football

Starting point is 00:02:03 in the Jacksonville Jaguars and the Seattle Seahawks, down his offensive tackles for some of those games as well, and a couple of offensive line starters. He's been without two of the five offensive line stars in all three of those starts. And honestly, like, it wasn't great numbers-wise, 63% completion percentage, 544 yards passing, four touchdowns, three interceptions, only 5.9 yards per attempt, which just, you just, can't do in the NFL and be successful, and a 39.3 QBR. So this isn't great. But considering what he was stepping into, Ben, I thought this was remarkable to see

Starting point is 00:02:38 from a 44-year-old quarterback with, again, just not football shape whatsoever. He limited the Colts offense in a lot of ways because of the lack of athleticism, but his ability to make the checks at the line, his ability to throw the ball before guys are out of their routes, the ability just to get some points on the board at all those things I mentioned, like, I thought it was one of the coolest stories I've ever seen in football. And I wish he would have gotten a win in one of these games. But, yeah, for all the things that he was and he wasn't, I thought it was really cool to see Phil out there one last time.

Starting point is 00:03:09 I completely agree with you. At first, it was like a hilarious joke. Like, when he first decided this, I'm like, this is something like, ooh, they called, you know, like the Colts always had some fun storyline every year. And I thought it's like, oh, they called Philip Rivers when they went down. It's not actually going to happen. And then it did. And then, oh, wow, he's actually doing this.

Starting point is 00:03:27 And then he looks hilarious running out of the tunnel from, you know, in the Seattle game. But I think that the before we get to like how just like, because when you take a step back, it's just such an like insane. Like imagine being like a kid on that high school football team that you just, you literally like finish your season. And the next thing you know your head, your head coach just goes to be an NFL quarterback. And then you're like heading to Indianapolis for one of his games. Like just an awesome like totally agree. Like just such a cool story.

Starting point is 00:03:55 as it is funny. I think the biggest compliment that you could give Philip Rivers is in that Seattle game. People were upset that the Colts lost that game, where it's like you felt like the team had a chance. Like you completely, now you had an unbelievable roller coaster from the defense in the three games that he's played. You saw a really good game versus the Seattle Seahawks on the road. That was an impressive performance for them to not allow a touchdown.

Starting point is 00:04:19 And then for them to have maybe one of the worst performances that we've ever seen from a Colts defense, really since Gus Bradley was been around in a game that the 49ers just had everyone's number. But, like, I think the biggest compliment you can give Philip Rivers is that people were upset when the Colts lost because they still thought that they had a chance. And I think that's people in the locker room. I think that's the fans. And, like, if there's any way to go out, the Colts didn't, they went out sad, but they also went out, like, funny. And, like, also gave us an unbelievable story out of this. So, like, from that, like, you have to appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:04:53 I mean, they were competitive in two of the three games down to their, what, fourth string quarterback, whatever you want to call Philip Rivers, right? I call them the ebug goalie, basically, of quarterbacks. Being down to that and being competitive in two of those three games, and you were playing against top teams in the league. I mean, Jackson was the hottest team in football, aside from maybe the Texans right now. They played against San Fran, who just can't lose despite having you and me playing defense for them right now, Ben. And then Seattle, who's fighting for the one seed in the NFC.

Starting point is 00:05:23 49ers are fighting for the one seed as well, so to speak. So for the Colts to be competitive in these games, I'm not trying to be moral victory about this stuff because we're past the point of moral victories with the Colts, but I think it just speaks to Philip Rivers. You know, the fact that defenses knew that ball was not going past 15 yards. You know, we saw it against the Jaguars when it kind of came undone a little bit. Anytime you tried to push that ball past 15 yards,

Starting point is 00:05:46 it was fluttering. We're calling them wounded ducks. We're calling them flayed ducs, whatever, at this point. like they were terrible he doesn't have the arm strength he's not in shape at all and i think a lot of it's just his footwork he just doesn't he can't move his feet right now because he's not in shape but uh to get some of the production they did to get i mean four touchdown passes considering what he's what he was coming off of and the defense as he played against uh i really thought it was phenomenal so i think the game plans were good too like for the most when you think

Starting point is 00:06:15 about the limitations that you have like i think if this move doesn't say anything about shit like this move totally tells you with Shane Steichen is he wants a guy that can run his offense like that's true like if if he didn't he Riley Leonard would probably be out there because Riley like Shane doesn't really like young quarterback which is kind of ironic because he developed Jalen Hertz and Justin Herbert and that's what we thought that the Colts were getting when they you know brought on Shane Steichen as the head coach um but like it was pretty miraculous like the 49ers game was going to stick with me because it's a die and it's created did such a large discussion about quarterback development, some which I don't think is warranted,

Starting point is 00:06:53 some which I think is. But like, you don't see quarterbacks basically go up to the line of scrimmage and call plays essentially from the line of scrimmage and then basically undress a defense through motion or for whatever they're doing pre-snap. And Philiburbs was locked in every single play. I thought it was one of the more unique things and kind of like something we used to see maybe 15 years ago every single Sunday. We don't see that as much. It was really cool. Yeah, no, for sure. And I think to your Shane's Dyken credit, I know, a lot of people don't want to hear this right now because we're in the mood of fire everybody, which I get, you know, again, when you lose as many games in a row as the Colts have lost,

Starting point is 00:07:26 I'm fine with having these conversations about firing everybody. But I thought one of the most fascinating things was this past Sunday against the Jaguars, where I was saying in the first two weeks with Philip Rivers, the Colts cannot go under center with this guy. No chance you can go under center. He can't move. And if I'm a defense, I'm not even prepared for under center. And they just rip off all these under center runs to start the game.

Starting point is 00:07:49 and they get this 10-point lead on Jacksonville, which is one of the best defenses in the league because Jacksonville had no clue this was coming. It's under center. Now, you can only get so far with the art of surprise, you know, against a very good defense. So once Jacksonville settled in and that shock factor wear it off, you're making the 44-year-old quarterback without an arm beat you,

Starting point is 00:08:08 and then the Colts weren't able to score points outside of Ashton-Doul and manufacturing great field position. But the fact that they were able to even do that against a very good defense with their limitations, I think speaks to, again just how incredible this this experience was for what the culture able to do again i know we're going to get a lot of comments being like it was dreadful they still lost the games and yeah they did but they were going to lose regardless of who they put out there at quarterback right to even get this out of philip rivers i think is just fascinating so i i find it really cool from like the film nerd

Starting point is 00:08:40 like aspect of it just how the colts were able to generate points how in those first two games they drastically changed their offense to be all gun run and and do whatever they could to manufacture points in this past game. They tried to get some under center stuff. It even drew up a cool little pop pass touchdown to Moiley Cox in the red zone, which was cool. Same one that they ran in the must win game that they lost, the last game in 2023.

Starting point is 00:09:04 That was the same one. It's like it was, yeah, like you can just tell. And like I think that was really cool. Like the offensive line also I think played a role in this. Like I think what we can't forget is like it wasn't just fill out there with like everything that Daniel Jones had to work with.

Starting point is 00:09:18 Yes, they had the receivers and Jonathan Taylor Warren, but, like, they ran only half-back draw in that Seattle game because they knew they couldn't get push anywhere else. And I think that, like, it was really cool from, like, and I get it. No one wants to talk about me, like, praising Shane's. I completely understand that. But, like, I think if you're, like, thinking about, like, okay, Philip Rivers just gives us the best he can run the offense.

Starting point is 00:09:42 The game plans are really, that's the part of the game I always find interesting. And I think Shane did a really good job in those weeks despite the loss. Yeah, no, we certainly have our gripes with Shane Steak and the head coach, our gripes with the team in general. So don't go wrong. Yeah, our last two segments here are going to be ripping into Chris Ballard in this team. So don't worry, guys. We're going to have that ready for you.

Starting point is 00:10:03 But I just want to say goodbye to Philip Rivers for maybe the last time. Maybe at age 50 he comes back. But thank you for the memories. That was a really fun time for me. Like, honestly, it can be so, like, look at what the Vikings have to watch with Brossmer every single weekend playing quarterback. It can be dreadful when you're down to your third and fourth quarterback or whatever they're down to. But for Phillip Rivers, come in here and have some fun football and some fun moments,

Starting point is 00:10:25 I want to say, I guess a good old thank you to Philip Rivers. Now enjoy coaching high school football again next year and we'll see what happens with this Colts team. But moving on, guys, the Colts season's over. So we have a lot of stuff to talk about. And number one enemy for Ben and I is Chris Ballard right now. So we're going to talk about his drafting as of late and how the Colts have been missing out on a lot of surplus value, especially in the Ballard and Stuyken era that we've been in these last three years. But first, this episode is brought to you by prize picks.

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Starting point is 00:11:47 Lineup that's code locked on NFL to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5. A lineup prize picks, it's good to be right. All right, Lockdown Colts, Everydayers, we are back. I want to thank you guys real quick for making Lockdown Colts your first listen today and every day. And thank you for making Lockdown Sports and number one sports podcast network.

Starting point is 00:12:09 If you haven't already, check out our new Everydayer Clubs. You can catch audio, add free, and get an invite to members-only. Locked on Everyday or Club Discord server, which includes a group chat for listeners of our shows. Make sure you go to locked on Colts.com to join or even gift a subscription past the holiday season here. I'm joined again to mention if you guys didn't hear the first segment here, Ben Boris at Colts Film Room, my favorite snarky film guy alongside myself in the Colts media atmosphere. We're going to dive into Chris Ballard because I have been having these emotional rants lately and I need someone to piggyback

Starting point is 00:12:42 or even pushed back on me a little bit, Ben. But I think a big thing that, you know, when it comes to Chris Ballard, especially early in his tenure, the big saving grace has been like, oh, he's a pretty good drafter. He's been getting some good draft picks in here. And I think early in his tenure, you can certainly say that, right? You got Grover Stewart in here, Quinn Nelson, Jonathan Taylor, Michael Pittman Jr.

Starting point is 00:13:03 Like a lot of good players and Shaquille Leonard, Braden Smith. I mean, so many good players that came in here and built the core of this team. But when it comes to the NFL, Ben, the most important contracts are making sure that you have superstars on your roster because those win and lose games like quarterbacks and pass rushers, but also the surplus value you're getting out of your rookie draft classes. Not every player needs to be a starter. Not every player needs to be a star for your team.

Starting point is 00:13:29 But on those rookie contracts, you need to have contributors. And when I look at what Ballard and Stuyken have, and Sikin falls into this too because coaching is certainly a part of this, but in the 29 picks of the Chris Ballard and Shane Sikin era, So the last three draft classes, 34% of those picks are no longer on active rosters for the, or on the active roster for the Colts, right? So that includes like Tim Smith,

Starting point is 00:13:50 who's been on the practice squad all year. The most, the biggest one right here, though, only 58% of those 29 draft picks have appeared in 10 or more NFL games at this point. Now, injuries are a factor in this and, and, you know, a lot of,

Starting point is 00:14:05 like Daniel Scott, for instance, falls into this and he just gets hurt every single time he touches the field. But that's part of drafting. You know, you have to be able to get players in here. They're just not getting anything in terms of surplus value out of their draft picks, Ben. And we're going to go through some of the hits and misses from day one and day two picks.

Starting point is 00:14:22 But, like, just in general, like, only having 58% of your draft picks over the last three years play in 10 or more games. That's the crazy one. Yeah, like, that's the crazy one. You need to get value out of these draft picks. And value can come in different ways from special teams' ability to being, like, rotational players, like, they're not getting any kind of value out of their draft picks in the last couple years. Yeah, and I think that's where, like, we've seen, I truly believe that if they had hit on some of these guys that they have missed on, and like obviously you're never going to hit on every single player in the draft, like we know this.

Starting point is 00:14:57 Like I'm not saying that. But when your second round picks for the last two years or two of your last three years are either or just playing for different teams. And I know you traded one, but you still made the decision to trade one. that's going to put strain on your depth. And I think that's where we've seen this Colts team really fumble is the fact that like there hasn't been when guys go down, like there hasn't been people to step up. The cornerback depth has been pretty bad.

Starting point is 00:15:25 Like I think that that's obviously something like you wish Justin Wally. I actually think the domino meme of like Sauce Gardner's never on the like Justin Wally gets hurt in camp. Sauce Gardner is in like all the Xavier and Howard. Like that feels like forever ago. But I think that's what we've seen. That's the story of the cold season, I think, is the depth was certainly strained this year.

Starting point is 00:15:46 And I think that that's what happens when you don't hit on day two of the draft, which Chris Ballard has really made his living, I think, off of, at least in the first half. I think you can almost split Chris Ballard's tenure into the Frank Reich side of things versus the Shane Steichen things, where I think he almost tried to reverse course a little bit too much maybe this year. He said, you know, like, said we're not close at eight and nine he goes out makes all these moves and you know obviously

Starting point is 00:16:14 i think luana rumo probably played a part in why germane pratt and some of his um guys in um Cincinnati were playing but i i just think when you look at this like you can't this is what happened it's caught up to the colts where they haven't had enough of these young talent they've gotten rid of some of their young talent that hasn't worked out and that's why we're seeing guys play on Sundays who just aren't what other teams are working with when they do have those injuries. Yeah. And I would say honestly, just looking back at like their top 100 picks in the last three years, right, I would say the only like surplus value player, player that's like either performing at or above their draft position is Tyler Warren. And I think you and I are both

Starting point is 00:16:56 in full agreement that he's going to be very good. I think there was a little bit of a low there. He had a sickness. It's a rookie wall. Yeah, rookie wall. Like, yeah. You will watch the film, I think. think and he's gotten better like i really think he has and like i get the production is not the same i think part of that was like the colts found this could be a whole other video but like i agree tyler warren is the guy that he was picked he was a layup of a draft pick similar to quentin nelson when they did make that trade back i know that it wasn't exactly the same type of layup where like everyone was mocking tyler warren to the colts for months but like it was a layup and the colts made the layup and i think that they get they get credit for that for sure yeah

Starting point is 00:17:33 That biggest surplus value they've had. And then you've got guys like Laotu, Latu, Matt Gonzalez, Josh Downs, solid players. I think you're getting some value out of those guys. They're playing up to their draft position. You're getting at least quality starters or at least adequate starters in the NFL. But when you look at the misses, and you alluded to this the second ago, Anthony Richardson, missing on a top five quarterback pick is usually a death sentence for a head coach and for a general manager. It hasn't been that so far for either of those guys.

Starting point is 00:18:01 but missing on that quarterback, again, it appears to be a miss because he's just not even getting the starts or getting the time. He's had a lot of injuries, but that's part of misses in the NFL. Juju Brent's just never healthy in the NFL. He's on a different team right now. And then there's a coaching change and it was never going to work, but he also didn't play. So it's like they didn't really get anything out of that. Yeah. Ad.

Starting point is 00:18:20 Mitchell could turn into a fine player, but it's not going to be for the Colts, right? He's with the Jets right now. And then honestly, like, I'm not calling this guy at bust. It's been, it's been very early in his NFL career. but it's not looking great for JT2M a low-ow. Like, what are the odds that a player can go from a below-average rotational guy to being a plus-plus player for you on his rookie contract? I don't think it's great.

Starting point is 00:18:43 So we'll see if he can turn it around. But as of right now, like, again, Richardson, a top five pick. Brent's Mitchell and J-T-2-M-a-low. Those were pretty high second-round pick players. Brent's was like the 34th overall pick. I also think that, like, yeah, you're not getting much out of them. Can I get something? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:00 So the other thing that I wanted to point out, too, because I put a tweet out about this, is like the way that Ballard has drafted in the past has led to also a surplus of guys that don't hit their stride until they're ready to walk out the door. And I think that that's the issue that the Colts also face where, like, it's great that Bernhard Reimann turned into the guy. And he was obviously an extension candidate, but you also did have that. And this is also like, I understand that this happens, but it happens to the Colts more than it does anyone else. Dio Dengbo has a career year, but it's in a contract year when he's ready to walk out the door. Alec Pierce, I think, is another guy where it's like, yes, he's turned into this great player. You can consider that a hit. I would also say that for half of his, maybe a little bit more than half of his rookie contract,

Starting point is 00:19:42 he was not existent in the offense. Like, I think when you, I put a tweet out, I think you can maybe count, like, of the 80 plus picks that Chris Ballard has made. Maybe eight of them have maximized their time in their rookie contract. just truly maximized it while you're looking at teams like the Rams who found their entire defensive line in day two of the draft and produced right away. And obviously that's an anomaly, but like it just proves on average where like the style of drafting has caught up to the Colts where a lot of their players that were on their second contracts didn't like, Zaire Franklin's a great.

Starting point is 00:20:17 I know he's a seventh round pick or whatever, but like it's just the type of style where like you get towards the end of their rookie deal and that's when they're ready to become the players that they thought they could be. Yeah, Texans are a good example, too, of the other way, where they haven't had a first-round pick the last two years. So look, Ben, it's possible. You can still draft well without a first-round pick. That's another show. Right, another show.

Starting point is 00:20:36 Because, like, I could go, and I think that's where. But without a first-round pick the last years, they've gotten guys like Camarie Lasseter, ursary at tackle, who looks like tackle the future for them. They've got Woody Marks. They've gotten all those receivers from Hutchinson to Higgins to Noel. They've built that entire roster and getting so much surplus. plus value. Jalen Petrie, so many good players on surplus value where the Colts, it's like, yes, the Consolveses, the Bordellini's, the Josh Downs, like, those are good additions to your team. But when you're not getting like many games out of your draft picks, you're not getting like

Starting point is 00:21:14 plus value guys who are overperforming. Like, again, if you're looking at the Texans, like guys like Lasseter and Petrie and Woody Marks are outplaying their draft position by a ton. The Colts, I don't know how many guys are really doing that. And if they are doing it, like you mentioned, they're doing it in year four or year five when you've got to pay them. I think Nick Cross is also kind of a guy like that for like two and a half years. We weren't really getting anything out of the guy. And now when you have to pay it, it's like, is he going to keep ascending or is this what he is? That's kind of the conversation the Colts had to keep having. And it's either that. And then I also think the Colts have to be, this is also where good teams win and the Eagles get

Starting point is 00:21:49 the edge over this over anyone else is where they identify these guys that maybe haven't hit their stride yet, but I've already locked them down to a more affordable deal. Like, imagine if the Colts had seen what is coming with Alec Pierce and just extended him, like, and didn't have to be in this position where he basically had all the leverage, and they've only given him more leverage after trading away A.D. Mitchell. So that he's going to get an absolute bag, and the Colts could have had him for more affordable a year later if they had offered that extension. Like, when you go look at when the Colts are ready to pay people, they don't do it until

Starting point is 00:22:20 late and they haven't been their pro scouting or whoever it is has not been good enough to identify or they don't have the permission to i think that's the other part of this too with ownership is like the teams that win draft really well but they also are paying their guys early so that they don't have to have these long drawn out contract negotiations they've already have and they have value they're signing guys to value the colts have thrown all that out the window yeah and coming up guys the the complaints about chris ballard don't end there i think the biggest complaint we have and we saved this for the last segment because it's a little spicy, I guess, in some trouble with people.

Starting point is 00:22:54 But Chris Ballard does not like to part with his guys when it's the right business decision, and there's at least one contract that cannot return to the Colts at its current state after this season. We'll talk about that here just a second. But first, guys, let's be real. No one starts a business for the joy of calculating tax withholdings or managing payroll spreadsheets. I guess my wife would, but that's one of the few people out there that would. That's where Gusto comes in to take the stress out of payroll, benefits, and HR so you could focus on running your business and supporting your team. Gusto is the all-in-one remote-friendly payroll and HR platform that makes managing your team simple, transparent, and fast.

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Starting point is 00:24:27 essentially is what we're doing on this show and for the rest of the off season especially if he's able to come back for year 10 with the colts but ben and me and so many other people in just colts media were identifying one contract at this time last off season I guess the whole offseason And it was Samson Ebukom could not come back at his deal last year. Coming off the Achilles tear, 30 years old at a position where the Achilles really hinders. Ebukon making $10 million was not going to be a good play for the Colts. They decided to bring him back. Chris Ballard got all sentimental about it saying if anyone can come back from this, he can.

Starting point is 00:25:04 And he didn't. He did not come back well from it. He has not even half the player that he was two years ago. And the Colts paid the price for keeping that money on the books. Now we have another player here, which is actually a little bit more. significant than ebucom because ebucom it was like you save that guy yeah you save eight million dollars though if you caught him or like six and a half million i think is what it was uh so you know you're not saving a ton of money but this one ben this is a homegrown guy has a farm in indy

Starting point is 00:25:33 michael pitman junior uh he's set to make 29 million dollars against the cap next season the colts have zero guaranteed money left on that deal after this year only five million dollars in head cap and they could save $24 million if they either cut him or trade him to somebody else. And look, Ben, the way this offense was operating this past season, even when Daniel Jones was fully healthy earlier in the year with their bootleg stuff and more 12th personnel and the core elements of this offense being Jonathan Taylor, Tyler, Tyler Warren, and honestly Alec Pierce with his deep threat ability, Michael Pittman Jr. is simply just not worth the $29 million cap hit this year or any year really in his career, but especially not.

Starting point is 00:26:16 this last season or going forward so look it comes down to to mind over heart here and you just can't bring him back at that 29 million dollar cap it especially if you're going to be tight against the books bringing back a daniel jones bringing back an alec pierce like it doesn't make sense to bring back michael pitman junior at 29 million especially like also you've got to fix this edge rush room you can't fix his edge rush room with that with that 29 million dollar cap hit there so i i think this contract needs to go in some some way this offseason yeah i think this i'm actually a little bit optimistic that this one's going to be something that ballard if he's back or whoever is the new general manager if the colts make that move i'm optimistic that one goes at least at if he's willing to take a

Starting point is 00:27:00 pay cut whatever they do i i mean i don't think that they will have him play on a 29 million dollar deal for this the idea of when the colds but i do think i but i agree with you it absolutely has to go i think That's, they're going to extend it. Watch, they'll extend him. They'll extend him and give him a good, still pretty good contract. Oh, okay. I will stamp this right now here at the end of this podcast. If Chris Ballard returns, he will extend Michael Pittman, Jr. this off season. What are your thoughts? Anyway, I think that, and I believe Michael Pittman actually said this on a podcast. one time when he signed the deal when they sign those deals so 20 to take everyone back this is where the state of the colts are in 2023 that the colts obviously they overachieve with the same roster that had not won anything in 22 and they said you know what we're close the infamous

Starting point is 00:27:57 run it back year so what they do they do is they take all their free agents that that had expiring contracts at the time and they signed them to a three-year deal with the guarantees pretty much being in the first two years for all of them so there's a lot of colts and i put this out on Twitter that have zero guaranteed money. Now, you can play on a deal that has $0 and guarantees. A lot of players just won't do that for a lot of really smart reasons. So they're either going to want to renegotiate or they're going to, it makes it easier for the team to cut ties.

Starting point is 00:28:27 I think that Pittman knows that he's not going to be playing on that type of contract. If Ballard's back, I also don't know that to me, Pittman is a guy who's fought. I will never criticize Michael Pittman's toughness or his ability to play. for this franchise like he has been through so many different quarterbacks so much nonsense here i'm never going to criticize him for that i would also say that when you don't perform business decisions have to get made i think i would think he knows that i would think his agent knows that um and i don't think it's this is a player that the colts can pay that would prohibit them

Starting point is 00:29:05 from winning more football games and i don't think paying michael pitman junior a contract is going to help them win more football games when you see other needs on the roster there's 52 guys right now and i don't think that michael as nicely as possible i think michael pitman has a skill set that is easily easier to replace than maybe some of the other stuff that that money could go to if that makes sense yeah especially if it cost them alec pierce for instance like if we're just doing a one-to-one if it cost them alec pierce it's a no-brainer what you do in 2023 we would not be saying this i remember one of the first like we did not know what Alec Pierce, this is kind of calling all of our segments into full circle,

Starting point is 00:29:44 but like Alec Pierce has outplayed, developed a true route tree, has can win in all levels of the field. Now he's not, he doesn't maybe run at the shorter, you know, rounds the way Pittman does, but he's not just, he's a very good deep threat, but he also does other things now too. So it's like, this is clearly a young player that is worth paying that has the higher ceiling where Michael Pittman does a lot, but like whenever anyone describes Michael Pittman, it's like he does a lot of the dirty stuff well. You know, like he's a great run blocker. He's tough. He's physically. He makes it. He has reliable hands. These are all true. I'm not discrediting Pittman's play. I'm just saying that when you describe what Pierce can bring to an

Starting point is 00:30:20 offense versus what Pittman can. Doesn't mean Michael Pittman's not a good player. Not everyone catches 100 whatever footballs. If you're not good, you have to be good. I just think that the Colts will probably look to replace that other than extend that kind of type of receiver. We'll see. If Chris Ballard is back, we have never seen him make a move like that before in his time with the Colts. We have never, ever seen it. And for as much as he has changed or says he's changed and changed over the years, I've just never seen him do that. I don't know if he would cut ties.

Starting point is 00:30:52 I think an extension. And I don't think, I'll be honest, I don't think Stuyken would, like, sometimes I think there's like disagreement between Chris Ballard and Shane Stuyken, where some of Chris Ballard's draft picks are no longer on the team or for whatever reason. And I feel like this is something where both of them would be. an agreement in bringing Michael Pittman back. Similar to the Brayden Smith situation of someone who meant a lot to the organization that they know when, okay, because the Brayton Smith situation,

Starting point is 00:31:20 the way they can play on the contract, all these kind of things, like have to fix that part of it. And they did. So I feel like this would be something similar where they realize a business is a business, but I also don't blame you at all for saying that. Yeah, it's just in line with what they've done. Real quick, Ben, before we get out of here, a couple other contracts that I think the Colts will have to just look long and hard at.

Starting point is 00:31:40 Zaire Franklin, he's due $8 million against the cap hit this next season, $2.5 million in dead cap, $5.75 in cap savings. Kenny Moore do $13.2 million this next season. You have to eat a little bit more dead cap with him, $6.05 million in dead cap and $7.15 million in savings with him. And then Grover Stewart, $14.25 million cap hit. You only save, sorry, you save $12.25 million and you only eat $2 million in dead cap. So like you said, they structured a lot of these deals to be things that are ways that they can get off of them after this year.

Starting point is 00:32:18 The sauce gardener trade changed a lot of things, obviously. But I think it's interesting that all these conversations are coming up with the Colts and we'll have to see which direction they go without a first round pick after the year and kind of see where they go there. But that's all we have for today, guys. Those are just the last couple contracts and we'll probably do a future video on them. Real quick, though, before we get out of here, if you guys need a last. last minute holiday gift or maybe forgot a gift and you just need to do something real quick here after the holidays, get the everyday air club, ad free episodes of this of this show, exclusive discord server access, and much more.

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