Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts: Answering Important Final NFL Draft Questions, with Stephen Holder
Episode Date: April 23, 2024The Indianapolis Colts are two days away from attempting to maximize their roster in the 2024 NFL Draft and address areas to aid Anthony Richardson's development. ESPN's Stephen Holder joins to break ...down the final thoughts on the draft. The Indy Draft Guide is here! For $8.99 with code DRAFTMAS, you get access to 225+ in-depth scouting reports, features, and much more. Click the link to order today: https://draftguide.gumroad.com/l/indy24 Find and follow Locked On Colts on your favorite podcast platforms:🎧 https://link.chtbl.com/LOColts?sid=YouTube📺YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLdpxJspi1hMh5HL7ExpWOQLocked On NFL League-Wide: Every Team, Fantasy, Draft & More🎧 https://linktr.ee/LockedOnNFL Follow Jake and Zach's written work on HorseshoeHuddle.com, and give them a follow on Twitter @JakeArthurNFL, @ZachHicks2, @LockedOnColts, and @ColtsOnFN! Today's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Home ChefNo more asking "what are we going to have for dinner" thanks to Home Chef and their chef designed recipes. For a limited time, Home Chef is giving Locked On listeners 18 free meal, free dessert for life, and free shipping on your first box. Head to homechef.com/LockedOn today. Monopoly GO!Get in the game and join your friends. Download MONOPOLY GO! now free on The App Store or Google Pay. The mobile hit twist on classic MONOPOLY.eBay MotorsFor parts that fit, head to eBay Motors and look for the green check. Stay in the game with eBay Guaranteed Fit at eBayMotos.com. Let’s ride. eBay Guaranteed Fit only available to US customers. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.LinkedInLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/LOCKEDONNFL. Terms and conditions apply.BetterHelpThis episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Make your brain your friend, with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/LOCKEDON today to get 10% off your first month.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase.FanDuelFanDuel, America’s Number One Sportsbook. Right now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning GUARANTEED That’s A HUNDRED AND FIFTY BUCKS – win or lose! Visit FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON to get started.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)
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Discussion (0)
Today, it's just two dudes talking about the draft, making their last pitches as to what is going to happen.
Let's get to it.
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Again, what is up, everybody? Welcome to the show.
I am Jake Arthur, HorseshoeHuddle.com.
Joined by a very special guest, I've got the one and only Stephen Holder, who covers the Colts and the NFL for ESPN.
Stephen, welcome to the show.
Hey, good to see you, Jake. Thanks for having me.
Of course. Now, you were with us the last week, I think our last episode last draft week. So I knew
we had to do it again. We came out looking pretty on that one. We, you, me and Zach all said Anthony
Richardson. So we looked smart on that. We'll see if it turns out that way this year, but we're just
kind of rolling through, you know, kind of our, our final thoughts on the draft, you know, what,
what we think they need to address in there,
what they might be able to maybe wait until after the draft and use some of
that salary cap space on, and then ultimately what we kind of think might
happen. So first up, it kind of had the same needs all off season.
It seems like the,
the severity of some of them has kind of varied now through some free agent moves.
Of course, really only reinvesting in their own.
Joe Flacco and Raekwon Davis are backups, the only outside guys they brought in.
Of course, you hope you don't see Joe Flacco.
So essentially, they brought in one outside guy that you might see.
So what do you think they most urgently need to come out of this draft with position wise
so i think the first thing to mention is that i actually don't think there are any needs that i
would classify as urgent there are needs there are needs uh but they have put themselves in a
decent position i'm not saying they're a championship team.
I'm not even saying they make the playoffs, right?
None of us can really forecast any of that.
The schedule will get tougher, the division's tough, all that.
But they have a pretty well-rounded and pretty decently constructed roster
that has talent across the roster at all units. So I think when you do that,
you really put yourself in a strong position going into the draft, particularly when you
have your quarterback, right? We knew that was going to be a game changer, having the quarterback.
And I wrote a story recently, not to get off the subject, but I wrote a story recently because it
dawned on me that this was a thing that like the disposition
has changed so much from having the quarterback and and not just because you know they had to
consider drafting a quarterback some years it was also they spent so many resources on quarterbacks
you know they they used what um they've used two-round picks in the last few years on quarterbacks.
Carson Wentz was a first and a third.
They drafted Anthony.
They spent later round picks drafting quarterbacks.
They spent tens and tens of millions of dollars.
So they're free from all of that now.
And so they have all their picks.
They don't have that pressure to at least consider a quarterback,
even ones that they don't love.
That is liberating, right?
There's no question about it.
So anyway, they don't have that pressure.
And they also don't have, like I said, the immediate pressure of saying,
like, oh, my God, we have to get position X in this draft
because otherwise we got no shot.
Now, that being said, they have definitely decided to live dangerously in their secondary.
We know this.
And Chris Ballard has shown that he's willing to take chances on particular units.
In the past, he pointed out correctly last week that he did do this with the offensive
line a couple of years ago and was proven right.
I would argue it's not the same situation.
That was a very experienced offensive line that had had Pro Bowl selections on it.
They just had a bad year in 2022.
So this is different. This is an unproven secondary that hasn't had that kind of success outside of Kenny Moore and, to a lesser degree, Julian Blackman.
The rest of these guys are completely unproven, and I think that's the problem.
I do think they are better than they displayed last year. Of course they are. They weren't on the field, but that's the thing.
We don't know enough about them. I've this argument i'll make it again take for example juju brents i think he's a talented guy that's that's pretty clear but we
also have the reality here which is like the results that he showed when he did play he was
up he was down it was never consistent right so we don't know who he truly is it's a lot different
than saying in the case of anthony
richardson right he only played four games what are we talking about this there are people i think
in other quarters corners i guess um around the league who are like i don't know if this guy's
a real deal well if you really watched him you don't really have a lot of doubts. Like you saw the talent. It was compelling and clear.
He just has to stay healthy.
That is not the same thing as what we're talking about in the secondary.
So I put that at the top of the list.
I,
I still think beyond that,
there are questions among their pass rush,
even though it was very productive last year,
but I still think there are questions, not immediately, but maybe going forward, right? among their pass rush, even though it was very productive last year.
But I still think there are questions, not immediately,
but maybe going forward, right?
What is the future of quiddi pay, for example, all these things.
So that's kind of something to pencil in, maybe not write in pen, but pencil.
And then obviously wide receiver.
I think weapons are always going to be something that I see as a priority.
And I just think with the depth of this draft at wide receiver, which Chris Ballard agreed is clear, there's a value opportunity there.
It doesn't have to be in the first round, but look, I mean, in the first couple of rounds,
there's a value opportunity there that matches with a potential need as well.
So they're in good. They're in a really good place, I think.
Doesn't mean they're going to come out of this as some kind of Super Bowl contender,
but they're in a position of strength to get what they need and to get some real talent out of this draft.
Yeah, they absolutely have needs,
but I kind of view them as one of the best player available teams.
Now, they do tend to draft their needs early on.
Fortunately for them, again, in this draft,
it looks like the value of the players that should be there at 15 or if they scoot down a little bit, it's there.
Like, it's a pretty rich draft in what they need.
But, you know, looking at,
I don't want to call it inactivity and free agency because like they did,
they did spend a ton of money, bring back their own guys,
like guys they wanted and who would have commanded a lot of money from other
teams on the market. But like it is the same team essentially.
And so on the surface,
it looks like they are putting a lot of eggs in the anthony
richardson basket and really relying on him and shane steichen to get them where they want to go
but we've heard from mostly chris this offseason about and especially friday protecting anthony
which they brought back everybody from a really good offensive line so check there but then he
also talked about
giving him weapons surrounding him with talent, which of course they did with re-signing Pitt.
But we haven't seen more of that yet, which I kind of feel like this is where they're looking at it.
Chris commented the offense. He complimented the offensive depth at the top of the draft. He has
talked about wide receiver two or three times this offseason.
So I kind of feel like that's where the splashes might come in this one.
I do think that there's an opportunity there.
And look, if, in fact, their near-term future really does revolve around
Anthony Richardson,
and no one disagrees with that statement,
then, look, this is not groundbreaking to say you've got to position him for success.
But I also, I mean, that's a very obvious thing, right?
But I also think there's something else to really harp on here,
and it's one of the people you just mentioned.
It's Shane Steichen.
I think if you had just kind of this run of the mill offensive coach, you know, maybe you don't
double down on your offense as much. I happen to think this guy is elite, at least as a, as a play
caller, as a strategist. I think he is. I mean, he has to continually prove it, right?
I mean, it's one year,
but he shows indications of being an elite guy
from a strategy perspective.
If that's true, I think you feed the beast.
Well, at least there's an argument to feed the beast, right?
I mean, it's not a very difficult argument to make like, hey, this guy, our coach, is one of our greatest assets.
So let's go there, right?
And give him the weapons at his disposal.
I mean, there's no better argument for that than last season, what he did with Gardner Minshew, right?
We all saw it. And we know we love Gardner Minshew,
but he definitely lifted the floor of Gardner Minshew's floor.
There's no question about it.
And certainly his ceiling was higher as well.
So that is a direct correlation to the performance of the head coach.
And all you can imagine, or you can imagine,
him having more at his disposal, like Anthony Richardson, for example,
a full season of Jonathan Taylor, things like that.
And what if you add to it beyond that?
What then is he capable of?
I really think the answer is we have no idea but it could be amazing so
I think that's a big factor to think about and and the one good thing is that uh Shane Stein
having proven himself in year one if you're Chris Ballard in that scouting staff you got to listen
to this guy if he says I need something you got to give him some benefit of the doubt there. And, and I really do think that he will be a guy who is vocal and will,
you know, be clear about what he needs and wants. It's,
it's interesting not to get on a tangent,
but I've always felt like Frank Reich could have done more of that,
you know, and say, sometimes you've got to step up and say, damn it, this is what I need.
You know, and, and maybe, you know, maybe that's not the way Chris,
excuse me, Frank Reich might say it, but the point is,
I think we know Shane Steichen will say it in a colorful way. Okay.
And, and I'm all for that. You know, I think you have to be,
it's a combination of like confidence and it's a combination of being assertive.
All of those things. It doesn't mean that the general manager has to rubber stamp it.
It just means that you got to have conviction about what you need and what you want and what you can provide if you have the weapons that you need. So anyway, there's a long-winded answer,
but I really think Shane Steichen looms large in all of this.
And I'm not just talking about the number 15 pick,
but throughout the draft.
If there are players that fit what he wants to do,
you know his vision, he has shown results,
then you can lean into that confidently and say,
all right, I'm going to
trust our head coach here. Yeah. And Chris, of course, is very flexible and wants it to be
collaborative. He doesn't want to be the face of the show. He wants to get that input from the
coaches. And this has been a big, different offseason for Shane and the coaching staff.
I mean, this time last year, Shane said, you know, they were still trying to install the offense and this and that, but Shane's been able to go to pro
days this year. He was at the senior bowl. Like he's a lot more involved with, with the scouting.
So I definitely think that him and the whole staff are going to be a pretty influential on this one.
But coming up next, we're going to talk about kind of the options the Colts still have in free agency because realistically, you don't get everyone or fill every position you want to get throughout the draft.
So they do have some salary cap space.
So what positions could they probably kind of wait to punt on in the draft?
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tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Okay, Steven. So the biggest recent news for the Colts was
giving the extension to DeForest Buckner, a player that has obviously been the heartbeat of that
defense for since 2020, very well deserved uh but interestingly enough the
colts were a little uncharacteristic in how they restructured it uh which now gives them 28.4
million approximately in cap space according to over the cap um i think his his hit is only like
eight million this year which you know normally he's a he's a 20 million plus per year guy uh but
you know chris was a little coy during his pre-draft presser the other day.
He said, you know, he acknowledged it gives them flexibility, although maybe he wanted
to see Twitter squirm a little bit.
But for me, I look at it and I say, you know, realistically, you know, maybe you want to
add decent players in the secondary or, you know, this and that in the draft, but it doesn't
always fall how you
want it to. And with this cap space, sure, they can roll it in the next year if you want to,
but they do have that flexibility now to add a capable starting safety if they want or another
corner. So how do you kind of read the Buckner contract development?
Yeah, definitely a departure from the norm.
That's for sure.
I think there were a lot of initial questions from fans to,
so I'm sure you and I both, you know,
what do we think that they have in the works as, you know,
as though there was something imminent.
I never thought it was something imminent and, and I, and there imminent, and there may be nothing substantial even to come at any point in the offseason.
However, it's what you just said.
It does at least put them in the conversation if an opportunity presents itself.
And the timing is, I think, notable because when do a lot of those opportunities tend to crumb up?
It's during the draft.
There's a lot of player movement during the draft, be it trades or what have you.
And even after the draft, you're going to have some cuts.
You're going to have movement there.
So to go from a situation where you basically had no flexibility whatsoever and you really couldn't
consider any substantive move, I think, beyond their draft class before the Buckner
restructure or the extension. Before that, they really only had room for their draft class
and smaller transactions. And really, we're still, for the Colts, we're still very early in
the offseason because they are a team that takes the approach that, look, we will keep all options
on the table all the way up until opening day. So for them, again, I don't anticipate a huge move,
but at least you can be in the conversation
if something presents itself.
So we'll see.
I think it's not an acknowledgment necessarily that they haven't done a lot
this offseason, but it is a little bit of an acknowledgment, you know,
because Chris Ballard certainly feels differently about that, right?
Like he sees it differently.
He sees it like, well, I kept a good team together, which I get.
But it is at least an acknowledgement that like, all right,
we're not a finished product, right?
And I think that is telling.
It's not a confession or anything.
It's not, you know, a gotcha or anything.
But I think it's reality. They're not a finished
product. And frankly, I think they have this, at least this is how I see it. This is not what
they've told me, but I think there's a challenging thing when you try to assess where the Colts are.
We've talked about Houston a lot, and I see Houston as one step ahead of the Colts are. We've talked about Houston a lot. And I see Houston as one step ahead of the Colts,
not because they're a better team per se, but just because with the year that CJ Stroud had,
you really couldn't take any other approach than to say, let's go get it. And the Colts,
I think, are a step behind because Anthony didn't play enough. It doesn't mean that he can't have the same kind of impact.
I mean, he clearly can.
But it's one thing when it's more tangible and it's already happened
and you've seen it.
And at that point, it's a lot easier to say, let's go for the jugular.
Let's go get it.
To the extent that they have, right?
I mean, I don't know that they're going to be in the Super Bowl this year,
the Houston Texans, but they certainly have made some upgrades.
But at the same time, with the Colts, it's not like you can just say,
you know, we'll just see how it goes.
No, you've got a veteran team.
You have a quarterback you profess to love.
You have invested richly in your own players.
Your core is back.
So there's kind of
this dilemma. They're not at the end of their window or toward the end of the window, but
there's also a window open to a degree. So how they govern themselves, I think is very interesting right now. And, but I, I, I can understand why it's a
challenge to know how to proceed. You know, it's a very interesting situation, if that makes sense.
Yeah. And it absolutely does. And I think another thing with Chris is they've really never been in
salary cap hell since he came in, in 2017, they always are like one of the top five, 10 teams in salary cap space.
And seeing at this point in the off season,
like you said,
the off season is a long game for them.
Like to not have that flexibility had,
had I'm sure bothered them a little bit.
But yeah,
like you said,
that doesn't mean there's some,
something coming.
It's not necessarily imminent,
but if they wanted to,
they,
they sure can.
Yeah. Coming up here, we'll talk about, you know, draft's a couple days away now. How do we see
things shaking out? What do we think might happen with them? Because again, they're an interesting
team. BPA, you know, not a ton of crazy needs, and they're a team that loves to trade back. But
again, they're one of the more interesting X factors really in this entire draft.
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All right, Stephen.
So the million dollar question putting you on the spot.
No, honestly, I'm racking my brain and I am putting myself through it over these next couple of days.
I just like I feel like I have.
And I don't want to say a specific position.
I think they're going to prioritize if it presents itself, then getting more explosive.
And if they can trade back, I think they would love to do that yeah i think if if this is the if this
draft is as deep as we think it is i do think the trade back scenario is very much in play first of
all it's always in play it's chris ballard right um and so it's really going to depend on how appealing uh the the the available players are
at 15 to the teams behind you right can you can you get a sweet deal to move down because somebody
who is really appealing is falling um will there be an appealing quarterback fall at that point i mean i guess
that's always possible i mean there's enough quarterbacks in play that you could get a
scenario like that so i guess you know they gotta they gotta push for they gotta i guess root for
as many quarterbacks as possible to go 1 through 14 and then maybe there's one left that that's interesting and
then somebody feels the pressure at 15 right i mean that would be ideal um but anyhow so aside
from the trade down scenario i do really subscribe to i know everyone says this all the time best
player available but very few teams actually really do that in practice, right?
This is a scenario where I really think you can actually do that and sleep just fine that night.
There's only a handful of positions where I would be left scratching my head.
You know, I think offensive line, even though we know that that's always a priority
for Chris Ballard, right, but they have a completely intact offensive line,
which no one in the NFL ever has, right?
They have that.
So that would surprise me, particularly because you have even Ryan Kelly,
for example, saying, look, I'm actually down to come back
for a couple more years, which I was wondering about.
But if that's the case, I mean, the core of your offensive line
is in really good shape.
So I don't see that.
I certainly don't see, like, a running back,
but I would have said that even if it were a need.
I wouldn't say that in the first round.
Beyond that, I think, you know, quarterback, thank God.
And then I don't know that beyond that i mean anything else is
kind of fair game you know i really do think that um i think we haven't talked enough maybe
not you but generally i don't know if we've talked enough about edge rush for me i'm not
advocating for it but i'm just we're just trying to profile the Colts here.
And ultimately, for me, I can't get past the reality that they threw $50 million or whatever it was at Daniil Hunter.
I mean, that happened not that long ago.
And I get that he's a unique situation.
You're not getting Daniil Hunter in the draft most likely,
at least not initially. So that's a unique situation. You're not getting Daniel Hunter in the draft, most likely. At least not initially.
So that's a unique situation.
You can get a Pro Bowl player
who is eminently
productive.
So that's going to cost you money, and they
saw the value in that. But it also says
something about
the way you view your pass
rush. You can't
just ignore that they did that even after a year when they had very good pass rush production.
You know, so I think it says something, number one,
about the importance of that position to them
and also perhaps about how they see that unit
in the next year to two years,
that pass rush unit.
So that's really something I think that we cannot lose sight of in sort of forecasting what they do.
Beyond that, obviously, we've talked about cornerback.
I think you mentioned earlier how the draft stacks up well
with what they need.
They could be in position there to have the guy they want.
I mean, they could have they could have carte blanche at cornerback potentially, whether it's Mitchell, whether it's someone else.
Right. I mean, they have they have they're well positioned right there because, as Chris Ballard said,
the offensive players are going to be coming off the board quickly early on,
the quarterbacks, the receivers.
I mean, if you have four quarterbacks, for argument's sake, in the top 10,
three receivers potentially, or at least in the top 12 or something like that,
I mean, you're talking about seven or eight players in the first you know 10 to 13 picks
already accounted for you know so they're going to be well positioned on defense and that's where
the value could well be for the colts once they get to 15. so anyway in terms of what i think in
terms of position player it's really wide open and and hard to forecast at 15 but um they're
very well positioned and they have very few positions i think should be off the table just
because it's not a luxury pick but you're you're just making yourself a better team frankly that's
all this is i know that's the dull answer but you know it's kind of where they are. Yeah. I say that that's what it is with them. Cause again,
they do tend to draft for need,
but the BPA thing is they don't have a roster that's like bereft of talent.
They don't have that quarterback or like,
they don't have anywhere on the roster where you're like, Oh God,
they don't have anything here.
And I think you're right with the edge defender thing.
Like that.
Sure.
That Daniel Hunter is already an established guy in the NFL. You know what you're right with the the edge defender thing like that sure that daniel hunter is already
an established guy in the nfl you know what you're getting but like that big of a financial
attempt doesn't come without wanting to do something to the position and you know
quitty pay samson nebucam and dio dangbo are all scheduled to be free agents in the next two years
i mean quitty if they don't pick up his fifth year option, then it's him and Dio next year.
And I mean, realistically, you're probably going to lose
at least one of those guys, and that's your top three edge rushers.
So I also got to think, knowing Chris and his tendencies like we do,
if the top edge rusher in the draft falls in his lap,
is he going to ignore that?
Like, he wants to build through the trenches,
and if you have a potentially elite edge rusher, like don't know that he'll pass that up uh but you're right like what could
happen in front of them you know four quarterbacks probably this is a really good offensive line
draft as well you could have three or four offensive linemen go ahead and then if you add
in the three receivers that no one expects to be there at 15. Like they do really have just their pick of the litter potentially.
And with that, I don't know if I'm really projecting a position they're going to take.
It's more of like a hunk of like five guys who I think just fit them so well.
And we know what they try to do.
If there's a glob of guys they love they'll try to
trade back to the end of the glob to not miss out on any of them or you know so they can still get
who they want but that's kind of where i'm at i i genuinely have no idea what position it's going to
be i just think it's going to be their best available of this hunk of guys they like i do
wonder look we always talk about chris ballard trading back but this is kind of guys they like. I do wonder, look, we always talk about Chris Ballard trading back,
but this is kind of a random thought.
I do think, though, that I wonder if he'll be less motivated this year.
I kind of asked him this recently, and I don't know if he answered it clearly,
but I guess, look, how many roster spots are up for grabs? Do you
think, you know, in training camp on this team, I think it's going to be a lower number than we're
accustomed to. It doesn't mean that it's not going to be competitive. It should be, you should have
a competitive training camp and guys should feel like their jobs are on the line because otherwise,
what are we doing? But, but I do think the reality is, I mean, they profess themselves, right?
We re-signed everybody because we like our players.
So there's probably, I don't know, I'd have to look at the roster to do this,
but of 53 spots, how many do you think are probably pretty well spoken for, right?
I mean, I'd say a good 35 or so are probably pretty well spoken for, right? I mean, I'd say a good 35 or so are probably pretty well
spoken for in April. Okay. So, you know, I wonder what that means in terms of trying to acquire
more picks in terms of signing a big undrafted class, for example, all those kinds of things.
I do wonder what that means. And then they have some
younger guys, like in the secondary, for example, who haven't played a lot, but they have high hopes
for, for example, right? And maybe they still got to prove themselves, but they have, you know,
optimism about their development. So once you do the math, not a lot of spots available, right? So, you know,
going into this with seven picks, I think they're fine with the seven. But look, I mean, you're
never going to say no to more picks, but, but, you know, I would just say they don't have to
go overboard in my view, whether Chris Ballard agrees that's up to him. We'll see. Yeah, that's
exactly it is. We will see uh so yeah that that's
it for us today thursday night i think eight o'clock friday saturday we're spending a lot
of time together for three days steven i hope you're right well hopefully we got some good
catered food and that at least makes it a little more tolerable that's true yeah we we need the
coffee machine ready and we need whatever good food they're ready
to bring in.
That's,
that's all we need.
So yeah.
Thanks everybody for hopping in today.
We'll be back with you throughout the week.
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