Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts Draft Day! Who Will be the Next Face of the Franchise?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Tonight is the night. The 2023 NFL Draft is about to begin and we bring you our final thoughts. Let's get to it. You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What is up, everybody? Thanks for tuning in and making us your first listen of the day. This is your daily podcast covering your Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Today's show is brought to you by Ultimate Football GM. If you've ever dreamed of becoming an NFL GM and managing your football franchise, then this game is definitely for you. To download the game, just visit ultimate-gm.com or look it up in the app store. Our listeners get a

Starting point is 00:01:05 100% free boost to their franchise mode when using the promo LOCKEDON, in all caps, INSIDE THE GAME. I am Jake Arthur, he is Zach Hicks, and this guy joining us today is a very special guest. It is Stephen Holder from ESPN. Welcome back to the show, man. Hey, thanks for having me. Always a good time and good conversation. We've kind of reached the pinnacle of what these last several months have been. We had that huge check with the new head coach, Shane Steichen, and now we finally get to figure out who this next quarterback is going to be. Obviously, we're going to be heavily skewed towards that today on the show.

Starting point is 00:01:45 Like we said on Twitter, we kind of talked about everything A to Z in the draft so far. So we opened up a lot of this to you guys. We had you tell us what you'd still like to hear between now and when the Panthers officially go on the clock Thursday night. So we're going to tell you our general thoughts on how we think things are going to go, what turmoil could happen in those first few picks ahead of the Colts, and then ultimately our final predictions. So Steven, again, thanks for joining us. We've heard a lot of, you know, this front office is kind of hard to crack. They're a little iron clad when it comes to draft plans. Are you buying that they're open to all four of these top options?

Starting point is 00:02:27 I buy that they like all of these quarterbacks to some degree. So I think that is true. And that's not really hard to believe when you think about it, right? There's something to like about all of these guys. I could talk myself into any of them, frankly. And it wouldn't be like super hard to do, to be honest with you. I could talk myself into any of these guys, especially for a team that has been in this quarterback wilderness, right? Like this is an opportunity with any of these four guys. And it is four, right? We know it's just those four.

Starting point is 00:03:01 I don't think Hendon Hooker is in the picture. Not that anyone suggested that but any ham turner unintentionally confirmed it's four today there you go there you go so anyhow and that's two sources because jim mercy kept using the word kept using the number four when i talked to him earlier this week as well so hey listen i'm no dummy okay i can count so I'm actually a dummy a lot of the times. But anyhow, but I can count to four. You're good here. You're good here.

Starting point is 00:03:30 We know you can count to four. We're good there. We got that. Yeah, we got the four guys. So anyway, to answer the question, yeah, I think it's very plausible, like I said, that they like all of them to some degree. The question and what is much, much harder to ascertain is what the pecking order is and who in the building likes which quarterback. That has been hard to ascertain because the one thing I have been told multiple times is that there are preferences, there are different preferences, I should say, among different people.

Starting point is 00:04:06 So I don't know where that leaves us, but they got to figure it out, right? And so anyway, that's the part that's harder to figure out. And we'll know. Here's the good thing. We will know more than likely they will, unless it goes quarterback one, two, three, we will know more than likely that they have to pick between at least a couple of these guys. So we're going to get at least some answers, I think, tonight. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's what Jake and I have talked about. Have that conviction,

Starting point is 00:04:35 take your guy over somebody else, or even move up to take your guy. Have that conviction in one of these guys and make him the face of your franchise. And I want to come at this in a slightly different angle here, Steven, where, you know, you've covered the team for a long time. You've seen a lot of different quarterbacks here in Indianapolis, from Andrew Luck to Carson Wentz,

Starting point is 00:04:52 Jacoby Brissett, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan, like so many different quarterbacks, just what type of quarterback do you think this organization needs right now? You know, again,

Starting point is 00:05:01 you've seen so many different types of guys, what type of quarterback do they need in the building for 2023 and going forward? You know, what's interesting is I think there's a couple of things. Number one, people talk about Andrew Luck. When you think about Andrew Luck, he could play probably in any offense. I don't think there would be any limitations on him in any kind of scheme. But in the end, what was Andrew Luck? He was a very dynamic athlete. And I think that is – he wasn't ahead of his time because he didn't play like Jalen Hurts or a running quarterback or what have you, right? I mean, he probably ran more than he should have at times or more, more perilously than he should have.

Starting point is 00:05:45 But anyhow, to stay on the point, I think he was, he was like Josh Allen before Josh Allen. Yeah. Think about it. I really think he was. And,

Starting point is 00:05:55 and maybe that's what we should talk about. Maybe that's how we should talk about Josh Allen. Like he's, he's Andrew Luck in a way, you know, maybe not as, as accurate or in some of those things. But anyhow, I really think they actually moved into the newer phase of quarterbacking without maybe even realizing it, the Colts, when they had Andrew Luck.

Starting point is 00:06:18 So I think there are versions of that type of quarterback in these four guys, you know, to different degrees. You know, there's Anthony Richardson, right, who is all athlete. That's not all he can do, but that's his defining characteristic. Will Levis, somewhere in the middle, right? Good athletic skills, has some weaknesses that we got to talk about. But certainly, you would say he's a high-level athlete. And then, you know, you have Bryce, who's kind of like, eh, he's okay. He's a decent athlete, not elite.

Starting point is 00:06:49 And then you have CJ Stroud, who's just, I'm good right here in the pocket, and I'm very comfortable just using my very, very elite arm. So when you ask what kind of quarterback, I mean,'m not ruling out C.J. Stroud. I think his arm is such that you can maybe divert from what you ideally want because maybe you think his arm talent is so great that you can live with the stuff that he lacks. But I think in a perfect world, and that's not where we are, but if we're in a perfect world, I want the combination. I want the guy who can make the throws and give me some athleticism, throw on the run,

Starting point is 00:07:29 bail me out if there's a bad call and get out of trouble. That's today's game, frankly. I think that's where you want to be. Frankly, we were there. We were in that world when they had Andrew Luck and we saw the benefits of that. That's a long spiel but I hope it helps yeah no I mean they kind of wanted that with Carson Wentz too they just gonna say that they just obviously they didn't get that but that's what they were hoping for and then the other ones were kind of them settling for I don't want to say the CJ Stroud archetype, but settling for more of the pocket passer where Carson Wentz was their big shot. And this is now their second big shot post Andrew Luck. I think that's telling, actually.

Starting point is 00:08:13 I really do think the Carson Wentz effort, endeavor, I think it's telling. Now, granted, I was there. I know how it went. But maybe frank kind of got sideways on that one i guess that's fine but but i also think it speaks to what they think wins in today's nfl i really do i mean as you said i think you make a great point matt ryan they didn't go get matt ryan because they were thinking oh man he's like the prototype quarterback no matt r Ryan was available.

Starting point is 00:08:46 They needed a quarterback. They got Matt Ryan. It's not that hard. Phillip Rivers, even in that respect, I mean, look, they wanted him maybe to play two years, but it was never supposed to be some kind of long-term solution. It was just like he's available. He needs somewhere to play. We need a quarterback.

Starting point is 00:09:02 It's a good match, and it was. But it was not about style. It was never about style or the type of game. So I think you're onto something there. I think that the type does matter. It's not going to be the ultimate deciding factor maybe, but I think it matters, and I think we know their type. At least as it relates to Chris Ballard. Shane Steichen's newer but but i

Starting point is 00:09:25 think he probably agrees yeah yeah chris is certainly a traits guy and those multi-threat guys you can fail but you know it's also worth it to try and to try and take that shot uh next we're going to talk about what could unfold in front of the colts in these first few picks uh if they stay put but first a word from our friends over at Ultimate Football GM. Today's show is brought to you by Ultimate Football GM. You've heard us talk all about this mobile game, and if you've ever thought that you would make a good GM, then you've got to give it a try. When you play Ultimate Football GM, you get to control and manage every strategic aspect of your team as you play through the season and lead your team to glory, trying to build a historic dynasty.

Starting point is 00:10:05 The draft obviously is tonight. You can do that in this game and it's really fun. It could be addicting. Trust me. Locked on Colts listeners, you guys get a 100% free boost to your franchise mode when you use the promo code LOCKEDON in all caps in your game store. That's LOCKEDON in all caps. So make sure to check it out today.

Starting point is 00:10:26 To download it, just visit ultimate-gm.com or look it up on the app store. That's ultimate-gm.com. Ultimate Football GM. Start your dynasty today. And every dayers, join Kyle Krabs, Joe Marino, and other LOCKEDON experts on the LOCKEDON NFL Scouting YouTube page for live NFL draft coverage presented by ultimate football GM.

Starting point is 00:10:48 Kyle and Joe will be live during all the rounds one, two and three. And then on Saturday, you will get caught up after each round. Join the draft dudes for the first round tomorrow night live on YouTube on locked on NFL scouting at 730 Eastern time. And that's actually tonight, not tomorrow night. I just misspoke there guys. So tonight, seven 30, you guys can check them after the first round,

Starting point is 00:11:09 getting to segment two here though, Steven, we're talking about what could happen in front of the Indianapolis Colts. And obviously, you know, a little bit more than we do. Are you buying this Houston Texans buzz that they're going to pass on a quarterback there at two?

Starting point is 00:11:23 Because I think like two, like maybe even just a month ago, we were saying, okay, they're taking a quarterback. It could be Will Levis, CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson. But now it's all Tyree Wilson. It's all Will Anderson. Like, are you buying that they might actually pass on quarterback? I can't get my head around it. I just can't.

Starting point is 00:11:43 Like, how do you, okay, I've been to that stadium. And I'm not suggesting that you should make decisions based on, you know, how fans are going to respond. Like, that's ridiculous, of course. However, there is a reality here, okay? This is a business. And you walk into NRG Stadium and you look around and you're like, oh, my God, no one's here.

Starting point is 00:12:07 You know? walk into NRG Stadium and you look around and you're like, oh my God, no one's here. Granted, they were playing the Colts, so there's a reason for that perhaps. But I mean, what in the world, man? I mean, at the end of the day, we saw Davis Mills. We saw him. And it got you the number two overall pick. What are you trying to prove here and i think look there there has to be if this were 2022 the last year's draft totally get it all right that was a bad quarterback class um all-time bad quarterback class this one we don't know ultimately how good it is right now we'll know in time but it at least at the moment it looks like a viable class like you can you can win with these guys at least some of them ultimately will will prove to be decent quarterbacks a couple of them at least so why not take a shot right i mean and i know this business about waiting for next year what come

Starting point is 00:13:04 on they screwed up the first overall pick this year. Who's to say they're going to get it next year? And I don't care what kind of coach D'Amico Ryans is, defensive coach or otherwise. He understands football. And even a defensive coach can understand the importance of quarterback to the franchise. And so I don't know, man. I just I think that's a it's a franchise that, by the way, you look at their history, their quarterback history has been tough.

Starting point is 00:13:36 OK, they've had a long, tough history. If you go back to, you know, the Matt Schaub era. Right. I mean, he was he was always that guy who was pretty good, but never good enough. They ultimately get Deshaun Watson. I mean, you can go all the way back to Derek Carr, excuse me, David Carr, right? That was a rough start for the franchise.

Starting point is 00:13:55 You had the Matt Schaub years, as I mentioned, who was probably better than we remember, but never was going to win anything. And then in more recent years, you get to Deshaun Watson, you see how that ended. They have had so much quarterback misery. Why not do something about that? And, you know, Cal McNair, the owner,

Starting point is 00:14:16 his father was the owner through all of that. I don't know. I just, I can't, this is not, I'm not saying anything substantive here. This is speculation. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me. I don do follow his reports because he talks to ownership, right? He talks to the people who matter. He is projecting, I believe as of today, Will Levis, which I found interesting. I have been told that they are not

Starting point is 00:14:59 big fans of CJ Stroud. Okay, fine. There are other quarterbacks. Okay. So I just don't know how they could do that. I don't know how they could justify it, especially if, you know, one of these quarterbacks takes off and becomes, you know, just a really, really great player. I would rather take that shot, you know, than say, I mean, what would, what would Will Anderson or, or, you know, anyone, they take it number two, what would they have to become for that pick to be seen in the long run as being better than even an average quarterback? You know, I mean, the value from a value standpoint, that player would have to be like a hall of fame pass rusher for, for that, for that pick to be like a hall of fame pass rusher for for that for that pick to be seen as higher value than like an upper level quarterback i didn't say elite i just mean like just like a good quarterback

Starting point is 00:15:51 so anyway that's that's how i see it the other thing i would add is that there's so much unknown here like every time i talk to people i hear different versions of stories i had a scout tell me that he wasn't even convinced, fully convinced that Bryce Young was going number one. Now, no one is arguing with that. That's pretty much accepted, but he still had like a small percentage of him that was still thinking, hmm, not totally buying it. I actually heard it came down to Bryce Young

Starting point is 00:16:22 and Anthony Richardson for Houston through a pretty good source, actually. So Richardson was really high on their board, apparently, and it is high on their board. So that's interesting. For Carolina, you mean? Excuse me, Carolina. Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to double check. I was like, well, Houston still has a good consultant, Richardson. Right. So yeah. So their final two, if this source is accurate, and he's in position to know, Bryce and Richardson, which is kind of interesting. So anyway, things are all over the map. The information is all over the map. I think you've got to let it play out.

Starting point is 00:16:57 And I'm not taking any assumptions before we get on the clock. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think in Houston's ideal world, they could get like a Will Anderson or Tyree and then at 12 get Will Levis or something. But if that's what you like, it's way too risky to wait that long, especially when you have Las Vegas waiting in the wings

Starting point is 00:17:17 and things like that. So I think you almost have to. And even if you slide back a couple picks, just like you said, we've seen what the quarterback situation is there it's not worth passing up but the other x factor and a team that almost almost seems like a certainty to move out is arizona at three i've heard they really want to move out they have really no interest in staying there at three when they can recoup stuff are you the thinking that if the colts have a guy they're

Starting point is 00:17:45 eyeing above the rest they have to go up that that one more spot and get them so they don't get jumped this is one of the most fascinating parts of this for me i i go back and forth as of right now my feeling is they stay put yeah but i i don't know how you could if you if you truly had a guy who was ranked much higher than someone else i don't know how you could sit there with your stomach and knots and not do that deal now look chris ballard we know he's about value we know he has never ever ever ever traded up in the first round. Just never done it. I mean, there's just no track record for this for him. So there's a lot pointing to him not doing it. But this is such a unique situation. And there is so much at stake that if you're ever going to go

Starting point is 00:18:39 against the grain and go against your tendencies in history, this is where you would do it. But I still lean right now towards saying they stay put. They stay at number four. I think it goes back to something I've said the last few days, which is they truly see a path to success for all four of the quarterbacks. And I actually, in conjunction with that, I should say, I don't think they see major separation between them. I can't speak to exactly how much separation is between which guy versus another guy. But it does not appear, at least from everything that I've gleaned, that there's major separation on their board. So all of that suggests, okay, let it come to you and stay at four.

Starting point is 00:19:28 But I will tell you this. I mean, the intel that I've gotten is that number three is going to be really interesting. Tennessee, watch Tennessee. They've got a new general manager. He comes from San Francisco. San Francisco is all about big deals, right? They are relentless. They go get their guy.

Starting point is 00:19:48 And so that's how he was groomed. So they're a team to watch. If C.J. Stroud falls, the team to watch, I was told, is the Atlanta Falcons. That's interesting. Yeah, I heard that very recently from someone in the league. So it'll be interesting. I don't know. I just think that number three pick, your board's going to change at quarterback most likely if you sit there and let that play out.

Starting point is 00:20:14 If you're Arizona, wouldn't you just settle for any old deal? I mean, as long as it's not embarrassing, wouldn't you just settle for it? I mean, why are you sitting there? You need everything at this point if you're unless you really have a blue chipper above everybody else like if will anderson's there and you have him as a generational pass rusher like yeah you do it but besides that yeah just take any deal honestly again in kind of trading with indy makes the most sense in a lot of ways because hey we'll pick up a lot of ways, because yeah,

Starting point is 00:20:45 we'll pick up a couple of couple thirds and we'll still get Will Anderson, but it will be super interesting. I think they're going to have a lot of offers on the table and they're going to have to weigh, you know, do we want to go back to 11, 12, 23?

Starting point is 00:20:57 Where do we want to go? You know, with that pick there, but coming up guys, we're going to squeeze Steven and we're going to really get him to tell us exactly who the Colts are taking tonight. Cause he obviously knows., we're going to squeeze Steven and we're going to really get him to tell us exactly who the Colts are taking tonight because he obviously knows. So we're going to squeeze him for it here in just a second. But first, if you're looking for a delicious snack but don't want all the sugar and calories, then you need the best tasting protein bar ever built.

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Starting point is 00:22:05 guys can thank me later enough tongue twisters there for you oh gosh there we go there we go all right so steven talking about who the colts could take here at number four now i didn't i don't want to squeeze you too much here but your mock draft for espn you had them taking anthony richardson i believe there I saw your kind of hit there and I saw your little write-up. You did say in that write-up that they love Will Levis, but you still went with Anthony Richardson. So what was kind of the thinking behind the Colts ultimately taking Anthony Richardson? Do you for a fact know that that's who they're taking right there at number four? I'm telling you you rock solid information right there. Look, it's a projection. And I think you can like, you can like multiple guys.

Starting point is 00:22:49 It's okay. And you know, you can like them even similarly. And at some point you have to make a decision. And what do you base that decision on? I mean, obviously there are things like scheme and fit and things like that. I don't think that really is the biggest issue here. It can be some element of it, but it's not the biggest issue. But frankly, Richardson, I think, can fit what they want to do. And I know you've talked about this quite a bit and you're right. So anyway, it really, for me, it boils down to Chris Ballard. I think he's smart. He understands that this is

Starting point is 00:23:26 all a crapshoot. Okay. It is very much a crapshoot. The draft in general is a crapshoot. And that is why his message to his scouts is always what? Look for the traits, look for the unique athletes. And I know that may or may not matter to people as much at quarterback. I still think it does. I wholeheartedly believe that it does. It's not about his 40 times. It's not about his vertical jump. It's not about all that.

Starting point is 00:23:52 It's about how his athletic ability folds into him playing the game and how it informs how he plays the game. And that's what makes him unique. So when you look at these quarterbacks, they're all unique in their own way, but he plays the game. And that's what makes him unique. So when you look at these quarterbacks, they're all unique in their own way, but he is the outlier in a good way. He's the outlier in a very, very positive way. And I just think if Chris Ballard sticks to his philosophy, that's what he would do. I mean, we've seen this before. We've seen it backfire too, right? I mean, you know, Kamoko Ture, that was a pick that was about traits, right?

Starting point is 00:24:28 And upside. Didn't work out. But sometimes that's just how it is. I still think over the long haul, if you approach it that way and you also have a good eye, I mean, guy has to be talented, right? But if you approach it that way and you have a good eye for talent,

Starting point is 00:24:44 you're going to hit more than you miss. And I would say that's been true of the Colts. So that philosophy, I think you apply it here. If you do, I think it's Richardson. You know, obviously the CJ Stroud element, you know, could be a variable. If he's on the board, you got a lot to talk about.

Starting point is 00:25:01 But if we're talking Richardson and Levis, I really feel strongly it'd be Richardson. Yeah. I, before Jake jumps in here, I agree. I definitely think a similar way there, but Jake, I'll let you actually get a word in for once instead of me hogging all of it here. No, you're good. I was going to say, I, we've both kind of said, you know, or at least I have CJ Stroud checks a lot of boxes, maybe the most of any of the quarterbacks.

Starting point is 00:25:26 But when you look at what Chris Ballard has always preached, it kind of screams Anthony Richardson. It really does. But tying it back to Chris Ballard, you know, obviously things in leadership did not go the way we planned, you know, Frank Reich paid the price during the season. Most people thought, you know, that would mean Chris Ballard was on the hot seat going in this offseason, but he was given a new lease on his, you know, on his career there. And he's given them unique opportunity to finally pick a quarterback in the top five.

Starting point is 00:25:57 How much of a lease do you think this pick gives them? Because we know how collaborative that is. It's not just Chris making the pick. They have brought in a lot of resources to make this decision. So do you think it buys this front office more time? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, I don't even think his job status is remotely a factor in this pick for Chris Ballard. I'm talking about from, from his perspective, I don't think it's even 1% of the consideration.

Starting point is 00:26:31 And then people may be surprised to hear that, but listen, I've asked Jim mercy this personally. I said, look, you know, you're the guy that walks around here, always talking about Lombardi trophies and you're coming off a four win season

Starting point is 00:26:43 and you kept your GM. Your team has a lot of questions. I said, I know that he's not going to go out there and revamp his entire philosophy for you to get what you want. So I said, you must be all in on whatever he's selling you. And he agreed. Jim Marseille agreed. And I think at the end of the day, if he wasn't, he should have fired Chris Ballard then. I mean, he didn't do that. He chose not to do that and backed him very clearly and publicly. So I know they're just words, but I don't care about the words. Look at the actions.

Starting point is 00:27:20 It would not make sense to have kept Chris Ballard if you were going to keep him on a short leash. You just let him hire a coach who got a six-year contract by the way you also let him you're you are about to let him draft what is likely to be you know your franchise quarterback if it works out so i mean if you're giving the guy that much latitude then and you're keeping him on a short leash well then this is a waste of everybody's time, right? So I really believe Chris Ballard has way more leash than people want to maybe believe, the people who maybe aren't fully behind him. And that's okay. I mean, it's fine to feel that way. I'm just telling you the reality of it is Chris Ballard, I think, has latitude and I think will even gain even more if this shows some promise, particularly

Starting point is 00:28:07 early on. This player, if he plays as a rookie and shows some promise, that's only going to give Chris Ballard more leash, so to speak. So I do agree. Yes, you have to give this time and let it play out. And this isn't a one-year thing anyway. This team is not a year away from making a run. It's going to take a couple years, really, to get this thing stabilized. So I think they understand that, even though they just, frankly, won't say it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, they have some veterans you can't come out and say, we're not going to win next year.

Starting point is 00:28:39 But it's about – you can kind of see it in their free agent approach. It's not about 2023 or 2024. It's about the years right after that, too. Like, it's about, you can kind of see it in their free agent approach. It's not about 2023 or 2024. It's about the years right after that too. Like it's about every year. It's not the Band-Aid approach that we've seen the last couple years. So I love that you said all that there. Steven, thank you again for joining us on this pre-draft special here, talking about what the Colts could do

Starting point is 00:29:01 and giving us the insight on exactly who the Colts are taking. We love it. So you guys make sure you hold Steven to this. You don't even have to watch now. It's perfect. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You guys could just go home feeling good. The Colts already have their first round pick signed up.

Starting point is 00:29:14 Every dares, you know we've got you covered with all the chaos coming in the next couple of days. Pick to pick. Stay tuned with us for analysis on each selection selection as well as a review after each day of the draft and if you guys don't already follow at locked on colts at jake arthur nfl at zach hicks too and at holder steven there on twitter also subscribe to locked on colts podcast on youtube or wherever listen to your podcast we'd love to see your ratings reviews and guys we will see you not tomorrow but later tonight after the colts make their selection on their franchise quarterback

Starting point is 00:29:45 see you guys then

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Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts Draft Day! Who Will be the Next Face of the Franchise?

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