Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - INDIANAPOLIS COLTS: How Did Position Battles Turn Out, and What Should Expectations Be?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Could Indianapolis Colts running back Seth McGowan have a bigger role than expected this season? Let's get to it. You are Locked-on Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome to Locked-on Colts. I'm Zach Hicks. That's Jake Arthur, and today's episode is brought to you by Kaushi. For a limited time, download the Kau-She app and use code Locked-on to get $10 when you trade

Starting point is 00:00:35 $10. On today's show, Jake and I are going to try to merge the idea of the offseason plus our week one coverage and talk about some of the Colts camp battles, what happened with those camp battles and how that relays into the week one matchup against the Baltimore Ravens and obviously going forward as well. So we're going to talk about the running back two battle, the shakeup at wide receiver, I guess behind the top two players of Alec Pearson and Josh Downs in the first segment. Then we're going to talk about the front seven in the second segment, a lot of topics. to talk about with that front seven there, Jake. And then we're going to close it out, to close it out talking about, like, the strong safety battle will be a big one as well. The Hunter Woller potentially starting week one with AJ Halsey still working through an ankle injury and what that means for the Ravens game and beyond. But first, Jake, let's talk about running back two.

Starting point is 00:01:24 This was a battle we thought coming into the off season, that this was going to be like a neck and neck race. You know, each guy kind of brought their own different flavor to the battle. and it was like a week into training camp that it was pretty clear who was going to be that backup running back for the Colts. It will be Seth McGowan. I know some people have said that on like the Colts official depth chart, it was DJ Giddens or something just the other day. But it'll be Seth McGowan. He certainly has won that battle.

Starting point is 00:01:51 I can't see any way that they would put Giddins out there before McGowan. So what do you kind of expect, I guess, with McGowan, not only in week one against the Ravens, Jake, but just for his kind of like overall role this season for the team. Yeah, I do still expect Jonathan Taylor to kind of dominate the attention in the backfield. But I also think the Colts have been kind of trying to poke around and find a Zach Moss style of player ever since Moss left in Free Agency a few years ago. So what I think that means is you might get a guy who pops up a little more occasionally on third downs, short yardage stuff as well. because I think Jonathan, especially when you get into the low red zone, he'll probably get the lion's share of the work, I imagine. But you do want to provide some variety.

Starting point is 00:02:40 And a guy like McGowan is a powerback who just very determined. We've talked about him just being north and south. There's no wasted time. He just gets his head down and goes. But also, you know, in past protection, I thought he stood out pretty well, seemed to be able to identify where pressure was coming from and get to it quickly. during the preseason. And I don't think he dropped the ball the entire time. Now, I guess a complicating factor in us projecting how much work he'll actually get

Starting point is 00:03:09 is the fact that last year, Jonathan Taylor grew in every area. It was his best year in pass protection until it wasn't. I think kind of around. His best year in pass protection until like week eight. Yeah, I was to say, a typical year after that. Around that Pittsburgh game is about where the wheels came off. Pass catching, though, it was a career year for him.

Starting point is 00:03:30 He still has lapses in like concentration drops and stuff. But as far as like he's still a quality pass catcher. But I do think they will want to get like McGowan entire drives at a time. At least like two drives or so all his own throughout a game. Will we see that as early as Sunday against the Ravens? We'll see. In theory, I would think the cool. wants to be, I don't want to say a run heavy team,

Starting point is 00:04:01 but I think they'll always want to have that be established, especially until we see what Daniel Jones looks like. But I just feel like you never know with Shane. You could think, okay, here's the ingredients to attack this defense this week, and he goes in a whole different direction. And sometimes it actually winds up working, and they just hammer that to death. but I think it makes sense to have McGowan spell Taylor for not just like plays at a time.

Starting point is 00:04:30 I think Shane does want to do drives at a time. Like if we've noticed his trends at all, I think that's kind of how they want to do it. Yeah, I really want to see McGowan get a little over 100 touches this season. Like even if Taylor is healthy all year, I want to see McGowan like break 100 touches. And I don't want to see Taylor over 300 again this season. Like he is 300 rushes, I should say. He has been over that like a couple times in his career, especially last year as well.

Starting point is 00:04:57 And he's going on to his third contract. Like you cannot be giving your running backs that many touches, that many carries in the season if you want them to have that longevity across this third contract. Now I'm not saying that like, okay, when the going gets tough, we have to be really staunch with it and say, okay, we can't let him get over 20 carries this week because that would be absurd. You know, some games are going to call for Taylor to get 30 carries. others are going to call for him to get 15.

Starting point is 00:05:20 And I think that the Colts have to be smart with that. But overall, I do think that, like, the long season plan should be get Seth McGowan more involved. We don't want to have a situation like last year where Taylor has to play pretty much every single snap on offense. And part of it was because he was playing well, but another part of it was just because our only other option to play is this 30-something-year-old special team running back who, like, Amir Abdullah was fine for what he was, but he shouldn't be. out there on offense, but he was the only other guy capable of playing on offense. So I think that just having a more capable backup can spell Taylor a little bit and get him the rest that he needs throughout the season. He should not be carrying the ball 300 plus times, having almost 400 touches in the seat. Like, we should not be seeing that from him at this age and with how long he's been

Starting point is 00:06:09 in the NFL. Let's go to wide receiver though real quick, Jake, because this was a hotly debated topic throughout the entire offseason. Like should they add someone? Should they bring in someone else? Is Ashton Doolin or Westbrook of Kina or any of these guys good enough? But we have our answer with Keenan Allen coming into Indies, signing late in the off season. He will presumably take on that third wide receiver role.

Starting point is 00:06:30 Now it kind of clarifies the room. Ashton Doolin becomes wide receiver four. Like he's one of the best in football at being wide receiver four and how he does everything that is needed in that role. At wide receiver five, you get Lequan Treadwell, who's one of the best kick coverage guys last year, very reliable player when he's called upon. And then Dionne Burks, who is kind of like your stash player, but we'll see if he can grow as a special teamer. So we do have that clarity in the room now, Jake, and do you feel much better about wide receiver going into this week one

Starting point is 00:07:00 matchup knowing that now that Alec Pierce is probably playing in week one, we have Pierce, Downs, and Keenan Allen instead of just the question of Pierce and Downs and then a bunch of guys after that. Yeah, I feel much better about it. I think there's a little more. variety. I think you've got guys that can kind of wear different hats as well. Keenan Allen and Josh Downs can both provide some inside outside versatility. You don't kind of have to pigeonhole guys into certain spots. Like it never really was a contest with Ashton Doolin versus the other guys coming in. Like it was always Ashton Doolan being that third guy until Keenan Allen got it.

Starting point is 00:07:41 So now I think, again, there's just, you. You can have more niche roles for guys and have them be more specialized in what they're doing. Now, we've discussed since Keenan Allen got on board, you still probably want to have Ashton in there on rundowns and have him be more of the blocker. And Keenan Allen is just a guy that you're going to go out there and have him beat coverage on third, fourth down, like got to have it and stuff like that. He'll have more of a role than that. But that's kind of generally the gist of what you're going for.

Starting point is 00:08:10 But it's really, for me, Treadwell and Birx. I like them as insurance, and even at the practice squad, they have Gould and Nick Westbrook-A-Kina. I think it's a really deep collection of receivers. But Treadwell and Burke's probably primarily being special teamers until they're needed. I do think you could find roles for them. I just don't know how many, like, snaps they'll get. Most weeks, they probably won't play offense at all, I've got to imagine.

Starting point is 00:08:39 But I do like the variety, and they can kind of pick a guy to do just about anything they'll want. a receiver to accomplish. Yeah, one last thing I will say with that, though, is I really hope this Keenan Allen signing doesn't just diminish completely Ashton Doolin's potential role on offense. He brings something to the table as a ball carrier. You know, he had a pretty much a good amount of, like, runs last year where he was able to be productive on those, like, jet sweeps.

Starting point is 00:09:03 He can fill in any of the wide receiver spots. And I think the big one, too, if you want Alec Pierce to do a little bit more underneath stuff this year and be more of that wide receiver one, Doolan is. is the only other receiver on this roster, I guess aside from Dionne Berks, but he's just not going to get that time yet, who can take a top off defense, right, who can run vertical and threaten a defense vertically. Now, he doesn't have the same gravity of an Alec Pierce, but he has more gravity on the vertical plane than Keenan Allen does. He's got more gravity than even Josh Dallens does, I think, running vertically down the field. So I do think there's still

Starting point is 00:09:36 value where, like, hey, we're in 12 personnel, two receivers out there, it's Doolin and Pierce, and instead of having Pierce run the deep post that doesn't really get targeted on, on the Yankee calls, you can have Doolin running that and having Pierce run the over route that typically is targeted on this route. So something like that, I think Dueling can still have a role on offense, even though it's not going to be as big a role now with Keenan Allen brought in here. Coming up, though, we're going to talk about this defensive line because there were a couple things settled this offseason when it comes to the defensive line. And even with some of those position battles settled, I'm very concerned going into week one against the Baltimore Ravens,

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Starting point is 00:12:53 We are back talking about this defensive line for the millionth time this all season. And before we diving into that conversation yet again, don't forget to check out the Everdair Club for ad-free episodes and access to a group chat with other listeners of the show, me and Jake, tap the link in the show notes or go to lockdowncults.comcast. dot com. All right, Jake, so we had a couple things settled on the defensive line this offseason, some good, some bad, for sure when it comes to up front for the Colts. One being it really wasn't a conversation on who was going to start alongside Laotu-Latu. I don't think there was even a second that this was a real battle in the off-season.

Starting point is 00:13:32 So maybe that speaks to the caliber of players we're talking about here. But Ardenki will be starting alongside Laotu-Latu at defensive end to get a majority of those snaps out there. Jalen to him a low owl should be the next guy up. Michael Clemens will rotate in. We'll see which one of George Gums Jr. and Caden Curry is going to be active on game days to get that final edge spot. And then a defensive tackle. The reserve one tech will be Jerry Tilleri. So probably the worst run defender that the Colts have put it that Reserve One tech in Chris Ballard's times. You can I already kind of see where I'm going with this, Jake. I am terrified about run defense with this defensive line. I think having Grover Stewart is awesome because Grover

Starting point is 00:14:12 Stewart is awesome. I think Laotu Latu actually grew a lot as a run defender last year. I think DeForest Buckner is a good run defender. So maybe it's not going to be like the worst run defense in football. But I think a lot of the reserves and also Arden Key as well, like it has never really been that great of a run defender. But I mean, again, your backup one tech is a traffic cone in run defense. Jalen Tumaloa was getting run over by tight ends. I know he was gas in the preseason. It was tough for him out there, but he was getting run over by tight ends the entire preseason. Atatamilatabori has taken big strides as a run defender, but he's still probably around league average at best in that regard, and there's still some times where he gets

Starting point is 00:14:52 driven off the football. I am very concerned about plays that don't have grower Stewart and DeForest Buckner on the field when it comes to run defense, and that has been a concern for five years now, Jake. And I think I am more concerned going into this year than I had been about even like the Tavenbrien One Tech years because it's going to be rough when those guys are not out there. What are your thoughts, though, Jake? Yeah, I think what exacerbates that is we've seen some of the linebackers have some not cool moments, like struggling to get off the blocks as well. So it's one thing if your lines getting blown off and like the linebackers can help make up, but if both layers are in trouble, then it could be even worse.

Starting point is 00:15:35 So, yeah, at the defensive line, I share your concern as run defenders, but the biggest gripe we've had going into it is that they're not probably going to be good enough as pass rushers either. So it's like, how was the play, Ms. Lincoln, right? Like that, what's that running joke? Yeah. Besides that, how was the play, Ms. Lincoln? Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:15:58 And I think the frustrating thing, It's like they've got $30 million in cap space right now, but they've just got these enormous concerns on the defensive line. They may not have concerns, but I think all of us watching from the outside are plenty of concern. You know, I think this is yet another group that's going to be very dependent on stars being stars and guys taking next steps. Lot too has to be a stud, not just get them 10 plus sacks, which he's going to need to do, but also be a pretty good run defender.

Starting point is 00:16:29 DeForest Buckner, needs to be to Forrest Buckner, Grover Stewart needs to remain Grover Stewart. And then I think when it comes to Arden Key, they have a lot of faith in his run defense because he's long. Like, they think his length is going to be a big benefit. We'll see. He's still, he's still a very narrow player. You know what I mean? Like, if he's facing the strong side and there's going to be like another tight end and he's getting double teamed or something like that's, he's not going to get off that block probably um so and then the second level like you mentioned who like if the preseason was any indicator they may be toast and like look i'll provide some optimism real quick because

Starting point is 00:17:12 i can't jake was getting too negative for jake standards there so let me try to bring it back here with jake typically being the optimist i'm actually like when i look at like if they come out here in week one and going forward as well with their four pass rush unit and this needs to be their past rush unit from the from the get-go. I don't want any more of this like, like last year they played around so much with Taekwon Lewis being the interior rusher instead of Tommy, and it just wasn't nearly as effective. So if they come out here week one with like, okay, on passing downs, it's going to be Latu, Buckner, Tommy, and then either Key or whoever, right, is going to be, too, Tumolo, I think has shown some decent things of the past rush, so whoever you want to throw out there, right,

Starting point is 00:17:52 as that fourth guy. But if you're three guys of Latu, Buckner, and Tommy, are out there on every third down. I feel better about the pass rush somehow than I do about the run defense because I think you have three guys who I think can get after the quarterback. And one guy can get at a really high level in Buckner. And then you have the Energizer Bunny himself and Tommy. And then you have Latu who I think has put on a lot of power. He's been a lot better as a power rusher and a contained guy who can track down the

Starting point is 00:18:21 quarterback. So I actually feel better about that rush group than I do about like, Tillery and Toomelo-out defending the run. I'm terrified of those two guys depending the run. So, yeah, I do think that, like, I don't think it's a horrible defensive line by any means. I really want to clarify that. Like, I don't think it's, like, the worst defensive line in football. They have guys who are capable of playing on Sundays.

Starting point is 00:18:44 It's just they don't have that guy off the edge who is, like, that guy. And some of the bottom of their defensive line depth chart is concerning if they were to get on the field. And unlike wide receiver, right, where, like, we're sitting here being. like at wide receiver like, oh, I hope Laquan Treadwell doesn't play. Well, yeah, on a weekly basis, he won't play on offense, right? Tilleri's going to play on defense, you know, like Tumelow is going to play on defense. Clemens is going to play on defense, and that is a concern. Those guys are going to be out there for 20, 25 percent of the snaps, you know, so that, that is

Starting point is 00:19:18 certainly concerning to me with this defensive line. I do wonder if, so Lou obviously has kind of the notoriety of not playing younger guys and this and that, unless it's someone he like implicitly trusts from the beginning. But if some of the veterans aren't cutting it, like, or they're like major liabilities, do they let Kate and Curry and George Gumbs crack the lineup a little bit more if they look more capable?

Starting point is 00:19:49 Or is it just going to be a thing where it's like, they're still young and learning? Like, I do think there's a real, possibility, which I did not think would be happening, that Gumbs and Curry could wind up being a couple of your better options situationally, whether that's against the run or, you know, whatever. But yeah, the depth is just, it's weird. And I think they've kind of put themselves in a position to have to rely on the rookies a little bit.

Starting point is 00:20:19 Yeah, and I will say, I'll add Tim Smith to that as well because I think it, like, look, first week. I like Tim Smith. Yeah, first game of September, we'll see. But I'll say this, if the first week of October game, Tim Smith is still the healthy scratch and a certain somebody still playing over him, then I hope that I was proven completely wrong and it's not a coaching, like, bullheaded decision. But I'll leave it at that. I've talked enough about this poor guy on the show.

Starting point is 00:20:45 Coming up, we're going to talk about the back half of the defensive linebackers, which we kind of alluded to a little bit here. And also the strong safety conversation, which I think has gotten really interesting the last two weeks, even though it seemed like it was kind of set in stone a different direction until the latest injury. But we're going to talk about that here in just a moment. All right. With schedule is getting busier and everyone getting back into their normal routines, I mean, school is back in session now.

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Starting point is 00:23:28 For more information, please go to cowshee.com slash regulatory. All righty, Locked on Colts Everdayers, we are back for a final time going into some camp battles, the results of those camp battles, and what that means for week one and beyond with this Colts team. Now, we've alluded to linebacker a couple times, and I think you made a really great point there, Jake, about how run defense is not just going to be about the defensive line, but I think the linebacker is going to be part of this as well. Now, it's trending in the direction. We haven't got confirmation yet, or you can correct me if we have, Jake,

Starting point is 00:24:01 but I think it's going to be Akeem Davis Gather and Jalen Carlis likely getting the lion's share of defensive snaps. Have we got any clarification on that for week one? No, but we'll talk to Lou and Arummo and the coordinators tomorrow, and I was intending on asking about, do you have your starting linebackers? Hopefully you know what's going on. Yeah, so we will likely see a rotation at linebacker, so I don't expect it to be like, okay, Carlis and Davis Gather get 100% of the snaps.

Starting point is 00:24:26 but I do think that those guys are going to get majority of the snaps in week one. And I think they've earned it. I'm fine with those guys being your best guys right now. My concern is both of those guys are kind of built like safeties playing linebacker. I mean, one of them was a college safety. Davis Gaither was essentially like a will linebacker who never took on a block in college, and he's kind of been that throughout his whole NFL career as well. And these guys are both at their best if they are completely untouched in the run game.

Starting point is 00:24:54 and I think that would be great if you had like 350 pound defensive tackles in front of them and said like Grover's great. Grover will keep these guys clean. But again, when Grover's off the field and he's not keeping these guys clean, you don't have like a big time. You don't have a landon Roberts type of thumper behind them who's going to run over an offensive lineman and make a tackle. You have glorified safeties playing linebacker that can run around and be speedy and get in the backfield if they're kept clean. but if that guard or that center is getting to the second level, it might be a 60-yard run. It might be a 70-yard run.

Starting point is 00:25:27 So, again, maybe if you're going against the Titans or someone who doesn't really have much a run game, it's not that big of a concern. Week one against Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry, like, very concerning. So I like their speed. I think they've earned it. I don't think they're terrible run defenders. Like, I actually think Akeem Davis-Gather is a better run defender

Starting point is 00:25:46 than he is a past defender at this point. But, again, they are guys that you've got to keep clean. and when Grover's out there, they'll be kept pretty clean. When Grover's not out there, they won't be kept clean. So it kind of just falls into that concern that I have with that front seven and the run defense in general with some of the depth players they have up there. Yeah, I think, so with Davis Gather and Carlis, I think one benefit and one thing that makes him a little more ready to play right now is also that they're probably your most physical linebackers right now. I mean, Betcher and Allen are fully capable of doing so, but I think the veterans are just more comfortable and able to play freely at the moment.

Starting point is 00:26:30 Like there's probably a lot of thinking that Alan and Betcher have to do right now. So I think at least when it comes to taking on blocks, like those veterans are probably going to be a little more capable of getting off of them and fitting the run and everything. But I'm really interested to see what it looks like in coverage and who they use. Like, we'll get to it in a second, but if Halsey is right, already, do we see Wooler? Do we see a GK? Do we see Betcher? Because like, Betcher had some low moments in coverage as well during the preseason. So I'm, the whole thing is going to be just so

Starting point is 00:27:03 much rotating. At least that's what they're conveying to us. So what does that look like? If you've clearly got guys in Davis Gather and Carlize, then where does C.J. Allen fit into it because you probably are more comfortable with him in the run right now. I'm just, I'm very interested to see how this shakes out. I think we're going to have to pay a lot of attention when we rewatch afterwards as, as to who is used in what situations. Yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 00:27:33 And now let's go to strong safety where like a month ago at this point, it felt like A.J. Halsey had it locked up. You know, Hunter Woller was missing time. Halsey was getting better and better each practice. He had a really good first preseason game. And then he's been hampered by an ankle injury the last couple of weeks. and it's even a question if he's going to play on Sunday.

Starting point is 00:27:51 But Jake, I kind of want to say this and just kind of throw this out there. I think I would have started Hunter Woller for this game anyway, just by who they're going against. Like I just mentioned my concerns with this Baltimore Ravens rushing attack. And with Woller, everything he showed in the preseason, the off season is he looks like Nick Cross. Like, I feel like I'm watching Nick Cross again in terms of usage around the line of scrimmage. The tackling technique is just pristine. and his run fits are really good. His eyes are really good.

Starting point is 00:28:19 And I trust that over a rookie safety in week one against, again, Derek Henry and Lord Jackson. So I think even if Halsey is good to go, I prefer to start Woler in this game. But then if they are in third and long situations and you get three safety sets out there, then Halsey can come in and be that third safety. And I think that can work for week one.

Starting point is 00:28:38 And that might be something they do this whole season where it's like, okay, we're going against Derek Henry this week. We're going against, say, Kwan Barkley this week. Woller will start those games. And then when we have games against, you know, Joe Burrow, where they're going to be in the gun 24-7 and never go under center, then Halsey can be in those kind of games. So I think we could see a bit of a rotation there. I think that's the aspect of having three good safeties that you can do something like that. But I think for week one, I was leaning Hunter Roller regardless.

Starting point is 00:29:10 That's interesting. I mean, we certainly saw them do that at corner last year, like certain. guys started just based on what the matchups were and that that could be what they do to be fair though last year at corner that was because they didn't have anybody decent so it was like whatever yeah but i mean some days were mackay blackman ones edward ones jalen jones you know what i mean um but yeah i i do think the fact that halsey has missed the last couple weeks with his ankle injury and Shane was kind of non-committal on it today uh because he was asked at the end of his conference call today whether Halsey was anticipated to be playing this week.

Starting point is 00:29:47 And he was kind of, he gave his, his line of, we're going to see how the week goes, which means, I don't know. Because like with Alec Pierce, he's like, yeah, he's going to play. But Halsey was like, we'll see how the week goes. But being a rookie, missing two weeks and now going into week one, they might just go with the safer option, which is Wooler and just bring Halsey along, even if Halsey's able to play, just have kind of a package of plays for him and let him come along slowly. The thing about Halsey is, though, they love him mentally.

Starting point is 00:30:22 Like, it was like halfway through camp, and Lou Anarumo, who, again, we know he's hard on young guys, said he hadn't made any mental mistakes to that point out on the field. Not that he hadn't made any, done anything wrong altogether, but he's not a guy that makes a lot of mental mistakes. He very much understands what he's doing out there and what he's seeing. but this is also a new offense. We don't know what a Declan Doyle offense looks like. He's the first time play caller. He came from, was the O.C. with Ben Johnson last year.

Starting point is 00:30:57 Before that, he was a Sean Payton guy, was a tight ends coach. So, like, they don't know what to expect from Declan Doyle. And so going with the older guy at Hunter Wooler, that might make more sense, even though we might see A.J. Halsey more throughout the year. this week one matchup might, I think I'm with you, might lean more towards Wooler. Yep, I agree.

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