Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts: The Evolution of the Modern Day NFL Quarterback

Starting point is 00:00:00 All right, Colts fans. So the whole offseason, we've been talking about what kind of quarterback, which quarterback the Colts are going to go in this draft. But let's pull the curtain back. Let's talk about the quarterback position in general and which way the NFL is going with the position so far. You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:45 Thank you all for tuning in and making us your first listen of the day. This is your daily podcast covering your Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Today's episode is brought to you by Ultimate Football GM. Ever dreamed of becoming an NFL GM and managing your franchise? Then this game is definitely for you. To download the game, just visit ultimate-gm.com or look it up on the app stores. Our listeners get 100% free boost to their franchise when using promo code LOCKEDON in all caps in the game store.

Starting point is 00:01:11 I'm Zach Hicks, your favorite half of this show's host right here. You can also find my work on horseshoehello.com. Today, I'm joined by a very special guest here in Emery Hunt at FBallGamePlan there on Twitter. The brightest mind when it comes to just covering the sport in general. My favorite go-to guy for draft work. And, you know, if you guys love his draft work as well, go to his Twitter. Go check anywhere that you know his work here, Emery Hunt's work, and you can get his draft guide.

Starting point is 00:01:37 It is the most extensive, expansive draft guide out there. It's over, what, 1,000 scouting reports in there, right, Emery? Over 1,000 individual scouting reports. The largest draft guide in there. It's over what a thousand scouting reports in there, right? Emory over 1000 individual scouting reports, the largest draft guide in existence, the one that only has scouting reports for every prospect that's listed in the book, not a list, not numbers ranking 26 through one 50. No, everyone in there scouting report. Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is where I go to when the Colts draft one of those day three, you know, FCS or even division two type guys. I'm like, okay, I need to go to Emory because I know that he's looked at this guy, you know, Rodney Thomas last year was the perfect example. One of

Starting point is 00:02:14 the few guys who actually looked up. So make sure you guys are going and grabbing yourself a copy of that. Today, though, I have Emory, I pulled him aside, and we're not just going to talk draft, we're going to kind of have a very open floor conversation about what the quarterback position is in the NFL. Cause again, this whole draft process you guys have heard us on this show every day, talk about Anthony Richardson versus Bryce young versus CJ Stroud versus Will Levis. But we haven't really talked about what this position is and what you really

Starting point is 00:02:41 need to succeed in the NFL going forward. And I, again, I'm kind of using Emory here to kind of push my agenda of the way that I view the quarterback position. So to kind of get this conversation started off, you know, we've seen kind of a shift in recent years of the NFL being more receptive to mobile quarterbacks. You know, they're finally getting on that train. You know, we saw glimpses in the past cam newton rg3 cordell stewart years ago and stuff like that but now we're kind of seeing a big shift with jalen hertz josh allen uh justin fields we're seeing a lot of guys lamar jackson obviously was the big forefather of all this here but we're seeing a lot of guys kind of fit that mobile mold here emory have you kind of seen seen the NFL go in that direction in recent seasons?

Starting point is 00:03:27 Yeah, they've gotten smarter because at the end of the day, this is what was going on at the high school level, at the collegiate level for decades. And it could have happened at the NFL level, but the NFL was just reluctant to put and just to be blunt black quarterbacks at that position. You go all the way back to Warren Moon. He had to go up to Canada and play five years winning five straight Grey Cups.

Starting point is 00:03:49 Imagine someone going up and playing their early parts of their career, essentially part of their prime, and winning championships before having to being able to come back down to the States and do the same thing. Not winning championships but playing at a high level. Man, what if he hadn't had to go up to canada and win five straight great cups

Starting point is 00:04:10 i keep saying that imagine someone winning five straight super bowls that's what warren moon did in canada and then we saw the teams teams just not fully buy into terrell prior vince young those guys randall cunningham had his stretch of success as well before we got to see Michael Vick. And then you saw other guys come in that had mobility, your Donovan McNabs, your Aaron Brooks that came in and made a splash. Now, McNabb had more sustained success than Aaron Brooks, but both guys went through parts of their career where they wanted to prove they can be a pocket passer and not run. Why? Because of the stigma that was attached to guys that get out there and be athletic. So I'm glad that we're seeing teams smarten up now because there's so many guys that should have been playing quarterback that we've missed out on.

Starting point is 00:04:56 Charlie Ward being one of them, you know, was told that he was too short to play quarterback because he was 6'2", but he's tall enough to be a first round pick in the NBA and play for a decade plus. So make it make sense. Yeah, yeah. And to me, again, I'm much younger than you, and I have not as experience in this industry as you are. So maybe I'm showing my age a little bit here. But for me, the big change happened in that 2018 and 2019 turn right there. We had, again, Josh Allen coming in, and he's a guy who couldn't really throw the ball very well coming into the league but he had such an ability on the ground as a rusher that he was able to kind of sustain himself with a high floor early on and then obviously lamar

Starting point is 00:05:36 jackson lamar jackson it feels like changed a lot uh for this and he opened the door to guys like jalen hurts two guys like justin fields and stuff. And then Kyler Murray obviously showed the outlier with the size and stuff. A guy like Kyler Murray would not have gone first overall decades ago. But because of that incredible ability, because of what Lamar Jackson did the season before, it kind of changed. Do you think that was kind of a turning point there? Again, I know with Lamar Jackson, all this stuff that's going on this offseason, we're still not fully where we need to go because if this was a pocket passing quarterback

Starting point is 00:06:08 we have already given him all his money you know well and again it is it's people tap dance around the topic you know it's clearly a race thing you know when it's josh allen it's okay to allow him to slowly grow and develop and work through his issues, juxtaposed to Malik Willis to where folks want to throw him away right after an inconsistent scattershot rookie year where he didn't know if he was going to start this week or play this week or if he could throw two incompletions in a row. And so now we're seeing teams say Tennessee need to go get a quarterback. Well, why not let him grow and develop and work through his issues

Starting point is 00:06:49 like Josh Allen was able to do and became who Josh Allen is in year three. And if it wasn't for Russell Wilson, another athletic black quarterback who was short, then we wouldn't have gotten to the point where we're seeing Kyler Murray, even though Doug Flutie should have got a shot. When Doug Flutie had to go up to Canada and win Grey Cups before he got somewhat of a shot in the NFL, despite having to bring Buffalo back in that 98 season, only to not start the playoff game, gave way to Rob Johnson, which they end up losing that game to the Music City Miracle. So, again, coaches have been biased by height, by race, all throughout the NFL at that position. And it has burned teams time and time again.

Starting point is 00:07:34 And I'm glad we're starting to see teams put the focus on winning football games because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. That keeps you employed. That keeps fans from you know for it keeps fans buying tickets going to the game buying apparel win games so play your best players and put your best product out there on the field yeah yeah for sure and let's talk about how this ability at quarterback contributes to winning games now because again look the end all be all is to get a pat mahomes type you want the pat mahomes type the guy you can win from the pocket who can win outside the pocket who can win on the

Starting point is 00:08:08 run who can win past the sticks you know wherever Pat Mahomes can do kind of everything for your offense obviously that's the end goal but if you don't have that option which a lot of teams don't and you're looking at draft prospects and you're comparing a pure pocket passer who can't move but does a lot of you know anticipation does all these great things to a guy who has that mobility, has that high floor. He can already gain yards for you with his legs, but the accuracy is not there and stuff like that. Like which type of quarterback would you personally prefer as a draft prospect? I want the guy that's going to help me win football games. And I think we put too much emphasis on the quarterback position.

Starting point is 00:08:50 If you make the 52 better, the 53rd guy, the quarterback, just can't go out there and play terrible. So because people are looking for this unicorn in terms of the quarterback has to be great, because when the quarterback is not great, it instantly turns to, oh, they have to build around him. He needs help and weapons. But I thought y'all said the great quarterback is supposed to make everybody around him better. Like, which one is it? You know, so it's not necessarily Pat Mahomes.

Starting point is 00:09:14 And, you know, being able to play from the pocket, which is another code word, or play outside the pocket. What it boils down to in a quarterback that you really want, whether it's a pocket guy or a guy that has athleticism, it's the fact that a guy is great situationally, has great situational awareness, is great versus pressure, both of the moment and coming from the defense. Guys that can handle pressure tend to have the success. And when you look at guys that have pressure, pressure is always about having options. And when you don't have options, you tend to feel the pressure. But when you have options in this sense, in this example, oh, I can get out and run if I need to break camp and get out of dodge, that's an option that helps lower the pressure that you see out there on the field. So there's a difference between Jarrett Goff and Jalen Hurts. You know, Goff and Hurts probably, if you just had them just throw the football,

Starting point is 00:10:12 they'd probably look about the same. Hurts may have a little bit more stronger arm. But throwing the ball, just, you know, but now when you add the fact that here comes the blitz, Goff is someone that will try to short arm it throw it quick take a sack can't get out out of harm's way well hertz will still be able to stay calm stare down the gun barrel and fire a shot or realize this guy's coming full speed i already know i have the outside available i'm just spin out by myself some more time or just take off so when you have options the pressure

Starting point is 00:10:44 is less for you so it's about finding guys they're not afraid take off so when you have options the pressure is less for you so it's about finding guys that are not afraid of pressure and when you look at that nine times out of ten you tend to see a lot of guys that have mobility yeah yeah for sure so coming up guys we're going to continue this conversation about quarterback play about again racial bias and stuff like that too that comes into this and and also again with these mobile passers how it kind of helps play callers as well we're going to talk about that all that coming up but first today's episode is brought to you by ultimate football gm you've heard me talk about this mobile game app and if you've ever thought

Starting point is 00:11:13 you make a great gm well you got to give this game a try it's not as easy as you might think it is to create a dynasty i know my co-host here jake has actually struggled quite a bit to not get fired after the first couple seasons so he's trying his best i'm going to try to talk him through it we'll see what we can do when you play ultimate football gm you get to control and manage every strategic aspect of your team as you play through seasons and lead your team to glory trying to find or trying to build a historic dynasty with ultimate football gm you're responsible for controlling the destiny of your franchise by hiring the right coaches managing all finances navigating your franchise through free agency, draft injuries,

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Starting point is 00:12:02 promo code LOCKEDON in all caps in the game store. ThatCKEDON, in all caps, in the game store. That's LOCKEDON, in all caps, in the game store. So make sure you check it out today. To download the game, just visit ultimate-gm.com or look it up in the app store. That's ultimate-gm.com. Ultimate Football GM, start your dynasty today. All right, Emery, so we've talked about obviously how the NFL has gotten to where they are now, how they've gone from, again, a lot of racial bias, a lot of bad history at the NFL.

Starting point is 00:12:31 So it's looking better now. We're finally, we're finally taking in these, these athletic quarterbacks. We're putting guys like Anthony Richardson, for instance, six, five, 240 pounds, four, four speed. This is a guy in the past who would have been turned a tight end on the way to the NFL you know heck they tried to do it with Lamar Jackson a couple years ago put him that wide receiver and stuff like that we're finally again getting past this we're having teams kind of accept mobile quarterbacks and not only in the scrambling ability like you said there with Jalen Hurts but also in the designed run game you know just how does it kind of impact a defense having a quarterback who's always a threat to run in that design run game. You know, just how does it kind of impact a defense having a quarterback who's

Starting point is 00:13:06 always a threat to run in that design run game, you know, read options, power read, you know, veers and stuff like that. How does that stress a defense having a quarterback like that? Because it evens out the numbers. It makes it an 11 on 11 game for the duration of history. You know, football has been 11 on 10 because you didn't particularly expect the running coming from the quarterback, which is why if you go back and look at teams that ran the option back when the option was the offense and they were able to get a great athlete who also had great situational awareness to operate the option offense, that's why Nebraska

Starting point is 00:13:44 was blowing the doors off so many people for decades right so now what we're seeing is defenses have to account for the 11th guy so you can't just have an advantage in terms of how you fit the run how you try to set the edge or you can't just crash down on the back side when you have to now worry about a quarterback either on a naked bootleg or on a zone read pulling the ball and going where you just left so you have to be a little bit hesitant and when you're hesitant that extra one second or a second and a half of hesitation just allows the offensive lineman to get an advantageous angle on the block or even get to the second level which now makes the running game pop.

Starting point is 00:14:26 So that's why you tend to see running backs that are paired with a mobile quarterback have healthy yard per carry averages. Go back and look at, you know, Michael Vick when he was paired with Warwick Dunn. Warwick Dunn had his highest yards per carry average when he was with Michael Vick. C.J. 2K was C.J. 2K when he was with Vince Young. He was C.J.00 with everybody else, right? So when you think about putting a great back with a mobile

Starting point is 00:14:50 quarterback, the number's going to be ridiculous. So when you think about that aspect, now in the passing side of it, because you can't turn your back to a mobile quarterback, it'll turn into a 4x1 relay because everybody's going to be running the same way because you have your back turn.

Starting point is 00:15:06 It's going to take off and run. Now you got to play zone. Well, and also now you're reading what's going on in the backfield because maybe you have to be an alley defender. You're leaving a vacated space behind you. You have to really open up these passing windows because you got to account for the mobile quarterback. That one person.

Starting point is 00:15:22 And it's not necessarily if you have someone that's back there just running around all the time. A lot of times it's just a threat of having the run. Lamar is most dangerous in the pocket because now you got to play zone. You got to be hesitant. You got to be a little bit more aware or he may run. Now all these receivers have all this room to work with. You kind of want him to get outside the pocket.

Starting point is 00:15:44 You don't want the mobile quarterback to stay in. The worst play is the play when they're sitting there back in the pocket because now they're just dictating what you do defensively. Yeah. And again, there's higher time to throws and stuff like that because these guys can just sit back there all day and they always are going to threaten you with that ability to run. I mean, I remember a couple of years ago covering the Colts when the Colts were playing the Ravens. I think it was 2020. It was when Lamar threw for almost 300 yards in the fourth quarter alone, where he was sitting back there just dancing around, you know, and there was nothing the Colts could do because they were just playing contained with their edge rushers. They were having their safety come down and playing that robber just to watch him.

Starting point is 00:16:23 And he was just ripping them apart with his ability to throw the ball. And kind of everything you were talking about did kind of lead into my next question is, you know, we saw last year in the NFL, explosive plays were down. You know, explosive plays came crashing down and explosive football became a minimum thing because teams were sitting back in that two high. They were sitting back in that Fangio cover four or the Tampa two and stuff like that. And they're having those two safeties over the top of everything. And they're making offenses go dink and dunk all the way down the field.

Starting point is 00:16:53 Now, when you have a mobile quarterback, how can you sit in two high all game when you have that mobile quarterback? Because that's when the explosive running game comes in. Right. Because if you go back and look at how teams attack cover two when they when the bucks were making it their defense you know once he found a way to kind of get you know a corral on a warren sap you know or you know what the bears were running with lovey smith it's like hey okay all we got to do is run the football if we are good up front we can run the ball and you you know, attack the middle of the field. We're going to have success.

Starting point is 00:17:29 So now you find ways where, OK, well, if they're going to sit in that cover four, cover two and try to, you know, take away the deep ball or explosive plays, we're just going to run the football because we have an advantageous box even more so because we have the 11th guy at quarterback so it does cause a ton of problems for a defense just from a number standpoint and when you factor in a tight end that's athletic or now you have a game breaker that running back that can make one miss it puts even more strain you're still going to get explosive but you're giving it up on the ground as opposed to giving it up deep down the field. So it kind of sounds like you're talking about the Colts a little bit here. Jelani Woods at tight end, athletic, Jonathan Taylor at running back. And this kind of just comes to my overall conclusion, my overall point that I was trying

Starting point is 00:18:17 to make with this entire episode and yesterday's episode, if you guys caught that, is when you have a head coach like Shane Steichen, where he's a Norv Turner disciple he wants to attack you down the field he wants those explosives he wants to be number one in explosives every single year he did that with the Eagles last two seasons wouldn't it make the most sense to get a mobile passer to contribute to the explosive game on offense absolutely because now your entire playbook is open. You know, now your run game is going to be explosive. Your sprint out passing game is going to be explosive. Your, you know, waggle game is going to be explosive.

Starting point is 00:18:53 Your play action passing game is going to be explosive. You get everything that you want to do with the guy back there that's mobile. And if you don't have a mobile guy, because, you know, a guy that's not as explosively mobile as an Anthony Richardson, because people will probably bring up. But what about Joe Burrow? Well, Joe Burrow has that situational awareness, that toughness that you want to where it slows down and he's not afraid or above himself to get out there and scramble, too. That's the difference between him and golf you know so and it also helps when you have three legit number one wide receivers too and higgins boyd and also jamar chase that threatens the defense as well because now you really have to focus on coverage which gives you room to go and scramble if you

Starting point is 00:19:36 want to go and take off and scramble so there's different ways to skin the cat but if you have a guy that at the end of the day things break down and you know he can take off and go score is that that's that's a threat in and of itself as defensive coordinators which quarterback would they not want to play or face and 10 times out of 10 is going to be the guy that has the elite level mobility yep yep so you kind of touched on my overall point and, you know, I didn't want to talk too many things about quarterbacks in this draft class, but if you're listening to our whole conversation today, guys, everyone listening, which quarterback were we kind of talking about in this draft class? Which quarterback were we kind of talking about? Which

Starting point is 00:20:20 one has the explosive ability to run? Who's the freak athlete who can attack the ball vertically down the field I know he's uh me and Emery's QB1 in this draft class so again make sure you guys are getting Emery Hunt's draft guide one of the most extensive extensive in-depth looks at this draft class and and honestly it's perfect for me because I am obsessed with small school guys and finding which small school guys can become NFL guys. And because of his draft guide alone, you know, I found a guy like Marte Mapu out of Sacramento State. Like, oh, he is so good. Such a good football player.

Starting point is 00:20:55 Emery, if you want to let people know where they can find you and also where they can find that draft guide and stuff like that, that'd be awesome. Yeah, they can find me on Twitter at FBallGamePlan. And you can order your copy of the draft guide over 1000 individual scouting reports, full color PDF, footballgameplan.com slash 2023 draft guide. I've gone to all eight all star events and games. I've been at the combine. So you're getting this information from someone that only calls college football games on Saturday, but has gone and scouted all of these all-star events. No one has done that. But I, you can find that at footballgameplan.com slash 2023 draft guide.

Starting point is 00:21:33 It's the industry standard in terms of scouting reports and draft guides. All the pertinent information you need. Listen, week six, while you're watching your favorite team, you're watching the Colts play. You don't care about someone's vertical jump or three-cone drill. You want to know what this guy can do, what he can't do, and how good is he and who he compares to. We got all that covered for you in our draft guide. Awesome. Awesome. Make sure you guys are following Emery there on Twitter at FBallGamePlan. Make sure you're following us on social medias at LockedOnColts, at JakeArthurNFL, and at ZachHicks2 on Twitter. Also subscribe to LockedOnColts podcast on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Starting point is 00:22:08 And thank you for making LockedOnColts your first listen every day. Now make your second listen, LockedOnNFL Scouting with the Draft Dudes. From free agency to the NFL Draft to salary cap management to more, join NFL experts Kyle Krabs and Joe Marino as they take you through what it's like to build a successful NFL franchise. Find LockedOnNFL Scouting with the Draft Dudes wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. We'll see you guys next week.

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Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts: The Evolution of the Modern Day NFL Quarterback

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