Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts' Underrated Players: Who Needs More Recognition?

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Indianapolis Colts players Jonathan Taylor, Darius Leonard, Quenton Nelson, etc. are widely known, but the Colts have several other players who need more recognition both nationally and locally. Jake and Zach discuss which players need to be put further on the map.Find and follow Locked On Colts on your favorite podcast platforms:📺YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLdpxJspi1hMh5HL7ExpWOQ🎧 Apple https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/id1151621306🎧 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/6meP450baAtjX4rTENZ5ij🎧 Audacy https://www.audacy.com/podcasts/locked-on-colts-daily-podcast-on-the-indianapolis-colts-21701🎧 Google https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vUFBZODk1ODUyODkyNQ🎧 Megaphone https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/lockedoncoltsFollow Jake and Zach's written work on HorseshoeHuddle.com, and give them a follow on Twitter @JakeArthurNFL, @ZachHicks2, and @LockedOnColts!Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!DaveDownload the Dave app from the App store right now for an Extra Cash account and get up to 500 dollars instantly. For terms and conditions go to dave.com/legal. Instant transfer fees apply. Banking provided by Evolve. Member FDIC.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnlineBetOnline.net has you covered this season with more props, odds and lines than ever before. BetOnline – Where The Game Starts!Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Everyone knows about the Colts all pros like Jonathan Taylor, Quentin Nelson, and Darius Leonard, but there are plenty of players who are being slept on. This and much more on today's edition of Locked On Colts. Let's get it. You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Colts fans, thanks so much for tuning in and making us your number one lesson of the day. This is your daily podcast covering your Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.

I am Jake Arthur, joined as always by my partner, Zach Hicks. Today, Zach and I will tell you which Colts players we feel are underrated both nationally and locally. The Colts were tied for a league-high seven Pro Bowlers last year, but there are still some guys out there that just don't get the recognition that they deserve. We're going to start out here with Colts defensive tackle Grover Stewart, who I wrote about this week over on Horseshoe Huddle. Sports Illustrated's Connor Orr released his list of the most underrated player on each team recently, and Grover was his representative for the Colts. Now, Grover is one of Chris Ballard's big success stories, honestly. 2017 fourth-round pick out of Albany State,

so he's a day-three guy out of a small school. So right there, the fact that he's made a second contract still on the team, that's pretty significant. In 2020, like I mentioned, he signed that three-year $30 million contract extension, which at the time made him one of the most highly paid interior defenders in the league. I think he was probably top three or five for nose tackles, you know, one text, zero text. And last year, he was actually pro football focuses, 13th ranked interior defensive lineman with a career high grade of 72.6.

And at the end of all that, he was rewarded with the NFL PA's 2022 black college football pro player of the year. But still, when you listen to people talk about the Colts and the defense and, you know, all the studs they have on that, you almost never hear anyone talk about Grover Stewart and Zach you've been a big Grover proponent your pretty much your entire Colts writing career yeah and for for people you guys can't see but his name today you know Zach does these themed names every week Big Grove for president so yes there we go. You see it right there. Yeah. This is Zach. Tell us a little bit about what makes Grover so underrated.

Yeah. You know, it is funny. I think locally we have finally gotten to the point where we can say, Oh, Grover Stewart is a good player. You know, it took us a while to get there. You know, I think, I think 2019 was really his coming out party. I think that was the year where he really solidified as, you know, not only like just a good nose tackle, but one of the better, you know, one-text nose tackles in the NFL. And then last year, he obviously just continued that success, 2020 and 2021. He just continued that. He's becoming more of a household name, at least within the Colts fandom.

I think Connor is spot on with, you know, talking about the Colts nationally and saying that Grover Stewart is the most underrated player nationally for the Colts because he's just a guy you don't ever hear mentioned. You know, you look at DeForest Buckner, Yannick Gakwe, even Quiddie Paye gets a lot of national love. You got Darius Leonard, Bobby Okereke even gets a little bit. And then the secondary, you know, Kenny Moore and Stephon Gilmore get a ton of love.

But Grover Stewart's kind of the glue that holds this whole defense together. He's one of the reasons why they've been one of the better run defenses in the last couple of years of football, especially, you know, under Matt Iberflues, the Colts have always had a strong run defense. And that'll probably continue under Gus Bradley because of a guy like Grover Stewart. I mean, the linebackers are always kept clean because Grover Stewart is is eating those double teams and he's creating that push up front and also I think he's getting a lot better at breaking those double

teams and shooting gaps and being a you know a one gap penetrator so for this new scheme when it's going to be more attacking it's going to be more shooting gaps and and getting up field I think Grover is a type of guy who can fit that really well. I mean, when he came here, I think he was like 330, 320, I believe is what he was. Yeah, he's a big boy. Yeah, and I think the last couple of years he's getting down to around 305, 310. And you can definitely see it in how he's moving on film. I mean, he looks a lot quicker.

And I think he's going to really fit this scheme going into next season and excel in this kind of one gap penetrating scheme. Yeah. And I was going to ask about how you thought he would excel in this new scheme under Gus Bradley and Nate Ollie. But really another big part of that is he should continue to open up things for his line mates. The fourth Buckner, of course, right next to him. You're going to have Quiddy Paye and Yannick Ngakwe on the end. So him eating up double teams and just putting, you know, shrinking the pocket a little bit in the passing game and then kind of having to reroute running backs in the run game. That should help immensely.

Yeah. No, I think this year is like just to cut you off here, just to rudely cut you off. Wow. I think this is going to be the most important year of his career with this new scheme, because everything is going to be so spread out on this defensive line for the first time, you know,

it's not going to be traditional five tech on one side and seven tech on the other. It's going to be wide dines off the edge with these defensive ends. So that one tech and that three tech inside, like we know Buckner is going to get it done. And I feel pretty confident saying Rover is going to get it done. And I feel pretty confident saying Grover is going to get it done too. But those guys are the only thing that's going to be keeping those interior offensive linemen from getting to that second level and getting to your Darius Leonard's and Bobby O'Kara case. You know, if those guys are

going to stay clean at linebacker this year and make stops in the run game, it's going to come down to Grover up front to, you know to eat those double teams and to get penetration initially up front when he's not double teamed. So he's been great the last three years, but this year is definitely the most important year because there's going to be a lot more pressure on him with how wide those defensive ends are going to be in the run game. Yeah, and I think that's going to be a huge part of it is those linebackers because they might have to engage a little more now with how things are set up.

And that's definitely been the biggest issue for Darius Leonard throughout his career, wouldn't you say, has been sometimes disengaging from blocks and, you know, getting stuck on blocks, things like that. So Grover being able to occupy guys and keep them clean, like you mentioned. He's a run and chase guy. That'll be huge. like you mentioned. Yeah, he's a run and chase guy. That'll be huge. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, Leonard is a run and chase guy. You've got to keep him clean. And you want him clean because he'll be able to come in and punch the ball out

or he'll be able to make steps in the run game if he's kept clean. It's not saying that Leonard is horrible at disengaging the blocks or anything like that. It's just you want to keep him as clean as possible because his strengths are shooting gaps, being free, and punching the ball out when he when he engages these running backs around the line of scrimmage so again a guy like grover this year especially is going to be so so important to the success of these linebackers yeah and grover is of course not the first you know nose tackle zero tackle and tech to go underrated. It took Damon Snacks Harrison years really to get recognized.

And then people started to see, oh, these interior guys who don't put up big stats, they actually are important and play a huge role. And it's kind of another one of those things where in the Pro Bowl, you wish there was a specific nose tackle ballot, because then maybe someone like Grover might be able to get a little more recognition. So yeah, it's easy for those guys to get overlooked nationally. Coming up, we'll talk about who the national analysts seem to disregard when talking about the Colts aside from Grover, particularly in the playmaker department. But before that, we're going to tell you about our good buddy Dave. Level with me. We've all been in a situation at some point in our lives when we were a little tight on cash.

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Again, available July 18th on Locked OnNFL wherever you get your podcasts. You know us at LockedOnColts. We're going to talk about those Colts who rank among the top 50, so we'll bring you that. Bookmark that for next week, guys. You know who everyone locally loves, but the national pundits always seem to omit?

Zach, who are we talking about here? Well, you know, there are a couple names that came to mind. You know, Grover Stewart was obviously one of the biggest ones. We wanted to do Grover Stewart for the first two sections, but it's hard to talk about nose tackles for two whole sections. Another guy that I threw out earlier today when we were discussing this and we had to say no because we just talked about the last podcast with Isaiah Rogers. You know, I think Isaiah Rogers is someone who doesn't get any talk nationally. And I think he's, you know, especially after last year,

you could talk about him as being a starting tight corner. But the number one guy that obviously comes to mind nationally outside of Grover Stewart is on the offensive side of the ball with Naheem Hines. Naheem Hines is a very, very solid running back. And honestly, I think a lot of him being underrated comes to the misconception of what he does for the Colts. You know, I saw so much backlash when he signed his contract last offseason where people were like, oh, they're paying a running back this big contract. A running back who's not even their starter. A running back who his most rushing yards in the season is still like under like 600 total if you count the playoffs.

People were pushing back on that notion, but when I talked to Naeem Hines a couple years ago, the biggest thing he told me was when he came to Indy, he was clear, like Tom Rathman told him, you are a pass catcher that can also run the ball. That's your position. You're not a running back who catches the ball. You're a pass catcher who can also run. Now, he's obviously grown as a running back and taken that RB2 job over the last couple years, but that kind of defines what he does for this offense. You know, it's not just, oh, he's a running back. No, he's a pass catcher. He's a playmaker.

I mean, 2020 with Phillip Rivers, I think he was second or third in the NFL in catches among running backs. I think it was, what, 63 or something like that, right? Yeah. He was competing with guys like Alvin Kamara and Christian McCaffrey.ffrey yeah yeah he was up there and and he had a great season and i think we're going to see more of that again this year uh which you're going to talk about here in a second with when it comes to like fantasy football and stuff like that but but naeem hines has always been an underrated playmaker and he's always the guy after every single down year at the colts have you know after last year and after 2019 chris Ballard has run to that podium during his

postseason stuff saying, we need to get the ball to Naeem Hines. He is one of our playmakers. We need to get the ball to Naeem Hines. And we've seen it in the years where the Colts have had offensive success, 2018 and 2020, Naeem Hines has been a focal part of those offenses, whether it's been as a pass catcher, whether it's been as a running back. He's a guy who's going to get the ball when the Colts offense is rolling. And that's why he's such an underrated player. If the Colts had more consistency since 2018, I think more people nationally would recognize Naeem Hines as the playmaker he is.

Absolutely. And I think that big reason that he is, that people just don't think about him as much is because he hasn't strung together four years of like really noticeable production right in actuality he's gotten better as a football player each year um you know he entered the league as kind of a punt returner who was a change of pace past catching back but he's become someone who can run, outside, but also between the tackles. I think at one point he did average five yards a carry. He's gotten better as a runner, even better as a receiver. He can line up in a lot of different spots.

He's really hitting his peak now. He's really getting into his prime. But he's had two – so he's played four seasons, but he's had two seasons with just really unsteady quarterbacks, with Jacoby Brissett and Carson Wentz. That's just two guys who, the offense just doesn't always flow properly. And not to get down on those guys, but that's just how it was with the running backs and catching the ball.

You saw what he could be in 2018 with Andrew Luck and then 2020 with Phillip Rivers. That's two guys who understand that the running backs can be an extension. And I think he had 63 receptions both of those years. So you get a guy like Matt Ryan in here now who is cut from that cloth of Andrew Luck and Phillip Rivers, at least in terms of understanding the game plan and knowing what to do.

I think you're going to see that again. You and I, the other day, one of these most recent episodes, I think put his over under at 60 receptions and we both, we were both saying to take the over. I think that's, I think that's appropriate.

And again, we're going back to, well, why is he underappreciated? Now, fantasy football, of course, a lot of people, you know, they don't want to take stock in how guys are ranked, this or that. But fantasy football rankings are a pretty accurate barometer of how people nationally think about players and right now as we stand we're recording this july 12th naheem hines and half ppr formats meaning you get a half a point for each reception a running back has he is the 44th ranked running back that he that that's that's not that is not an accurate judgment by season's end for him like

he he's a guy you absolutely want to have on like all your your fantasy rosters i'm trying to see here where he's finished throughout his career um yeah let's see in 2020 he was 20th and then 2018 he was 33rd so he beat that both of those years that he was, that he had those, those quarterbacks with him. So I think he'll probably reflect more of 2020 when he was ranked as the 20th running back overall at the end of the season. It just goes to show you that he's a guy that outperforms those rankings when paired with a quarterback like Andrew Luck, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan.

And yeah, it's, it's just, I don't, it's a what have you done for me lately league, of course, but it's not like he's gotten any worse. It's just the dip in production kind of as a result of his surroundings. No. And I would, one thing I want to add is, you know, I don't know much about fantasy. I play fantasy every now and then, but it's not like I'm actually good at it. I watch a lot of film, and that's where I get a lot of my stuff from. And one thing I can definitively say about Nyinghines is the Nyinghines that was running the ball in 2018 and 2019 does not exist anymore.

He's a completely different running back the last two seasons. I'm talking purely as a rusher. I think his first two seasons, he was like a 3.8 yards per carry type of guy. Right. And those were on productive teams. I mean, 2019 had a thousand yard rusher in Marlon Mack. So it's not like, it's not like these were on horrible rushing offenses. These last two seasons though, I believe he's pushing around five yards to carry. I mean, if you count the playoff game against the Bills, he's right around five yards per carry the last two seasons. And, and honestly, I remember 2020 alone,

he had more rushes of over 10 yards that season than he had in 2018 and 2019 combined. Last year, he also had a couple of big rushes. I mean, you guys remember the jets game where he had that, I think it was like a 30 yard touchdown in the first quarter. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Nine Heinz has, has grown a lot as a player, as a receiver, and as a running back. And I think those factors, along with the skill set he already brought to the team back in 2018, 2019, it makes him a really underrated player. And I think he's going to have a big year here with Matt Ryan. Yeah, and then, again, for the fantasy nerds, just another quick cherry on top for that.

He's also a punt returner. And although he, he's never, he's never duplicated this, but that game against the Panthers two, three years ago, we had two punt return touchdowns in the same game. He's still a really good punt returner. He could pop off for that anytime. So that's another layer to his game. He's one of the better punt returners in the entire NFL as well. So he got cheated out of the pro bowl that year. He had the most punt returners in the entire nfl as well so he got cheated out

of the pro bowl that year he had the most punt return touchdowns in the league that season he should have made the pro bowl it's because he did it all in like week 16 or week 15 he didn't have several weeks of that productivity um but no we're uh so we've banded together and talked about who the national analysts sleep on but what about the guys who even colts fans maybe not may not be paying enough attention to yeah you guys we've got that next overall most colts fans are pretty optimistic about the key players on the roster but there are still some who could use some more love zach who do you think we should be circling here yeah we had a couple guys that we were going back and forth on this morning when we were talking about this. And one guy who I didn't bring up to you, but I honestly would consider for this would be Matt Ryan.

You know, Matt Ryan, I think a lot of people are optimistic, but I think people are optimistic for him having a 2020 River season. Where personally for me, I think it's going to be closer to 2018 Andrew Luck type season. So I think that could classify a little bit as underrated. You know, there's a couple other guys. Braden Smith, we went back and forth on a little bit this morning. And one other guy I got to throw out here just because is, you know, Curtis Brooks. Super underrated player locally. Kylan Granson too, right?

Kylan Granson as well, you know featuring kyle and granson for this one but but the guy that we ended up yeah the guy that we ended up settling on was bobby okereke i think after last year he solidified himself as a solid maybe even above average linebacker in the nfl i know every time i talk to uh writers or radio guys for that cover other teams they're always like you know we would kill for the colts linebacker group because obviously Derek Sunderland is great but Bobby Okereke is really good too I think the numbers back it up I mean just the raw statistics but I think it even goes past that a little bit you know his impact in the passing game is a big deal and I don't think that's something that's captured really well by something like pro football focus and I think

that's why he's he's kind of slept on locally as you know pro football focus i think had him as like a bottom five linebacker in the league because of his coverage grade but when you actually watch the film it's that's so far from the truth when you when you watch the film he had the more difficult coverage assignments than even darius slender last year you know if they needed someone to you know cover a tight end in man coverage or to flip their hips and run on a vertical seam or something like that, it was going to be Bobby O'Kerrick. You know, Darius Leonard was the guy that was roaming around the line of scrimmage.

The guy that was going to be in those short zones and kind of spying on the quarterbacks and watching the quarterback's eyes. Bobby O'Kerrick was taking the tougher assignments of coverage and he performed pretty well. You know, I think he had what four pass deflect, and he performed pretty well. I think he had, what, four pass deflections and two picks last year. I've been really impressed with the development of Bobby O'Kerr.

I think he's grown a lot from his rookie season where he was just a sandbacker that was crashing into fullbacks. That's all he was. He was a sandbacker crashing into fullbacks, crashing into pulling guards and freeing up space. Now he's an all-around middle linebacker that makes a lot of plays.

So you obviously still want to see more consistency from him. You want to see him take that next step in growth. But I've been pleasantly surprised with his game, and I think Colts fans are a bit low on him, and I think pro football focus grade is one of the reasons. Yeah, pro football focus is definitely part of it. I was looking at it today. I think he ranked 25th or something last year, which of course

is near the bottom of starting linebackers at least, but he still doesn't get much love. I don't notice him playing as poorly as his grade reflects there, but I also think another thing that makes him underrated is just all of the talk about Darius Leonard, which deservedly so. He's the biggest playmaking linebacker in the NFL, but that then makes it so no one talks about Okereke at all. And I think his career trajectory so far with the Colts has gone pretty well. I think third round pick was it back in 2019. And so they drafted in the year after hitting an absolute home run with Darius Leonard in the second round. And his profile was somewhat

similar, at least physical. You could tell they were going towards a new style of linebacker in that system under Eberflus. Real lengthy guy, although he's bigger. Very, very athletic and rangy. So they were kind of trying to catch lightning again with that pick. He was also supposed to take over and be the heir apparent to Anthony Walker when Walker became a free agent. That happened. Okereke was playing a lot. It allowed Walker to move on to another team. Now Okereke is a free agent. So we'll see how that goes because they do have a couple young guys who may be able to surprise and kind of give him the Anthony Walker treatment. But in his first year of starting last year, 132 tackles.

Not every starting linebacker can do that. He had three for loss, a pair of interceptions. That's another big part of his game is he can come away with interceptions. Watching him in practices over the last few years, he's someone who's always been very impressive to watch. He's always around the ball. Now, he's dropped several interceptions in practice, but he's just someone who's always there making a play on the ball. He was honestly one of the better defenders in all of spring ball this year. So I think another year of experience, he'll be a fun player to watch this year. He's a free agent, but, I mean, I expect him to be brought back as long as he doesn't have some sort of weird large dip in production um but yeah i i definitely think he's he's underrated locally because people around here just love darius so much and if if we're even going a layer further zire franklin yeah yeah zire franklin see i mean i honestly debated us just throwing some special

teams player on here. You know, Zyra Franklin, obviously Ashton Doolin is a guy who kind of falls under that where Ashton Doolin does a lot for this team, but it's not going to be really appreciated because so much of it is on special teams. But going back to Bobby O'Kara, you know, he's not going to get the gaudy numbers of Darius Leonard because he is more of the cleanup guy. You know, Darius Leonard is the, I'm going to fly through this gap and I'm going to make a big play or I'm going to punch the ball out

or I'm going to take a risky jump in coverage to get an interception where that's where you see a little bit of, I don't want to say volatility because I know that always gets me pushed back whenever I say volatility, but you see, you know, some inconsistencies with Darius Leonard because he is a risk taker, because he is a playmaker. To kind of be the inverse of Darius Leonard O'Kerrick has kind of had to play it you know not really safe but be kind of the more at home guy the guy who's going to always be in the right position but now not maybe not always make

the play you know kind of like the Grover Stewart of the linebackers you know where where you kind of take on more of that role player type thing and I think he's excelled in that you know you want to see him take another step as a playmaker, more pass breakups, more deflections. And I think we're going to see a lot of that this year with Gus Bradley, because Gus Bradley puts a lot of pressure on his middle linebackers in coverage. A lot of robot technique out of play actions and stuff like that to get down the field and carry some vertical stuff. We're going to see a lot of that out of Bobby O'Kerrick this season. But I think overall, it's been a really solid run for him. And as someone who liked his 2019 film,

he's a much better player now than what he was in 2019. When again, when he was just the same crashing into fullbacks. Yeah, I was actually going to bring up that same point. You know, this is a new scheme with new defensive coordinator, new linebackers coach shoot. Kato June is coming in as an assistant linebackers coach now as well. So it'll be fun to see what they can do with Okereke and Leonard. EJ Speed even is kind of an intriguing guy there.

But yeah, that system has bred some pretty good linebackers in the past. So it'll be cool to see what they can do with that. With that, I think that is all for today. Everyone locked on Colts. We'll be back with you on Friday before we become an everyday Monday through Friday show starting next week. This week, we've still got to take a look at the offensive line and debate what's

going on there because outside of the three pillars, there is some uncertainty at both left tackle and right guard. Yeah. And guys remember, go on social media, both left tackle and right guard. Yeah. And guys, remember, go on social media, follow at Zach Hicks too. Don't follow the other ones. Only at Zach Hicks too. No, I'm just kidding. Go on there.

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