Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts: What Makes Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn Ideal Head Coach Candidates?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The list of potential Colts head coaches keeps on growing and today we're going to get an inside look at two of them who hail from an up-and-coming team in the NFC North. Let's get to it. You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Thank you all for tuning in and making us your first listen of the day. This is your daily podcast covering your Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Today's show is presented by PrizePix, which is daily fantasy made easy. Just pick two to five players and if they score more or less than their stat projections, then you can win up to 10 times your money on any entry. First time users can receive a 100% instant deposit match up to $100 with our promo code LOCKEDON. That's prizepix.com, promo code LOCKEDON. I am Jake Arthur, and he is Zach Hicks. You know us, of course.

Starting point is 00:01:18 We're here from horseshoehuddle.com. Today, we're going to focus on two of the Colts head coaching candidates that they've already interviewed. And that's the pair from the Detroit Lions, offensive coordinator Ben Johnson and defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn. And for some help digesting all this and learning more about them, we're going to chat with our friend Jeff Risden from the Lions Wire and the Detroit Lions podcast. How's it going today, Jeff? Guys, I hope you're enjoying the coaching service. I do not envy you guys having to go through this. I've been through enough of them covering the Lions, Browns, and Texans over the last decade. Oh, yes.

Starting point is 00:01:54 Yeah, I feel your pain, gentlemen. You hail from a lot of success in the teams that you've covered in your career. But before we get into Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson's who we're going to start with here, because I think that's the more hot name that uh everyone's going crazy about right now but before we really get into his style as a coach and what he does well there as an offensive coordinator for you guys i'm shocked at how he became the offensive coordinator for you guys because last season not this past season but the the season before, I believe you guys had Anthony Lynn as your offensive coordinator, and that did not go well at all.

Starting point is 00:02:30 Very, very poorly. I think he was fired midseason, and Dan Campbell, I think, took over as the play caller or something, right? That's correct. Yep. So after the season, I'm assuming that you guys, as people covering the team and even fans are saying, oh, yeah, get us an experienced guy, get us someone we know. How was it sold to this fan base that we're hiring internally from this

Starting point is 00:02:49 poor offense to be the offense coordinator? That's a good question. We kind of had an inkling that they were going to go with Ben Johnson. He took over the offensive scheming after the Anthony Lynn firing. Dan Campbell obviously handled the play calling and that, but Johnson elevated up pretty quickly and was, was seen as a guy who was very responsible for Jared Goff playing better at the end of 2021. And this team for, for better or for worse. And right now it's certainly for better, is committed to Jared Goff and making Jared Goff be the best Jared Goff he can be and we saw that at the end of 22 and Ben Johnson certainly played a

Starting point is 00:03:30 big role in that his his creativity was something that was easy for us to sell to a fan base uh you know there was a lot of people that were calling for you know Joe Brady was out there a lot of different retreads were out there but uh this was something where it was pretty clear pretty early on that Ben Johnson was a special guy, and we all kind of picked up on that. So when he was hired, yeah, there was some trepidation about it, but he quickly proved himself to be sort of a mad scientist. And, look, Lions, with Jared Goff as their quarterback and with a receiving core that was injured, you know, guys in and out of the lineup all year,

Starting point is 00:04:08 the fact that they went up third in the league in scoring and did what they did, it's a testament to how well Johnson played and handled things, getting the players to respond to him. That's one of the reasons why he's a hot candidate. Right. Obviously, it goes from kind of questionable at first to now appears to have been the right move. The Lions, one of the best offenses in the league. Anyone from the outside who watches any Lions game, you can see they're an entertaining bunch. A lot of the same faces, though, from last year in that really poor group to this year, and they're now succeeding. How much of that do you attribute to Johnson and what have you noticed schematically that seems to have unlocked things so one of the biggest things that he did was he and Jared Goff spent a lot of time together last offseason and and Goff had a lot of input on hey this is what I like to do this is what I think I can do well with the guys that we've got here and Johnson

Starting point is 00:05:01 listened to him to his credit and they worked out, you saw a lot of shallow crosses and layered things like that. Having, you know, just weird blocking schemes in front of him. Jared Goff, he has his faults. But one of the things he's really good at is, like, he blocks out pressure that's, like, going on in front of him and chaos. He does a really good job of that. And they played to the strengths there.

Starting point is 00:05:26 They played to the strengths of your number one wide receiver being Amon Ross St. Brown, a kind of a feisty slot guy. And this also goes with Johnson, but also some of the, the assistants around him. This Lions staff is incredible at player development. It's something I list off. Antoine Randall L is the wide receivers coach. Deuce Daly is the running Antoine Randall-El is the wide receivers coach. Deuce Daly is the running backs coach.

Starting point is 00:05:47 Hank Fraley is the offensive line coach. You all know who all these people are. And the fact that the players also know who they are and the fact that all these guys have sort of a teaching background. Hank Fraley actually was going to go teach high school before he took the job. His wife does teach school.

Starting point is 00:06:02 So that emphasis really helped on player development and the belief that Johnson showed in them, but also the trust that he showed in them. And with golf, especially, it really paid off. Yeah. Yeah. And Jake, I'm going to go a little rogue from your questions here, but there's another thing I'm just really curious about here is I think one of my favorite things about this Lions offense, like I know we talked to pass a game. We talk about how important it is to be a great passing offense, but this Lions offense, the running game is just so, so fun to watch. It's so diverse. There's power runs. There's outside runs. There's misdirections thrown in there. There's a lot of moving offensive linemen

Starting point is 00:06:39 and stuff like that. And I would honestly say this is the best rushing offense in the NFL that doesn't have a superstar running back. Like, you don't have that superstar back there, but Jamal Williams had a great season. DeAndre Swift had some good moments. Like, this was a good rushing attack. Like, was this a lot of Ben Johnson? Was this a lot of Deuce Staley?

Starting point is 00:06:56 Like, how did this rushing attack become just so dominant? Yeah, and a lot of it, the credit has to go to the offensive line. You've got Taylor Decker and Panay Sewell. That's one of the better tackle tandems in the league. Frank Ragnow, when he's healthy, I'll take him over any center in the league. I know he didn't get all pro, but he's really dang good. Jonah Jackson at left guard is a good one. Didn't have his best season.

Starting point is 00:07:18 He was a pro bowler a year ago. But the fact that, and you'll see it, in fact, in the game that they played against the Carolina Panthers, which didn't go very well, but they had a run play where Panayasul at the right tackle went around and behind and got in front of a sweep on the other side and knocked two guys out of the way. The wide receivers also block incredibly well. So the blocking is really good. Jamal Williams, the best short yardage back in the league. He scored 17 touchdowns. I think 11 of them were of one or two yards. He clearly is good at that. But again, this is Ben Johnson understanding this is what Jamal does well. This is what DeAndre

Starting point is 00:07:56 does well. This is what Justin Jackson, who was the number three back, this is what he does well. And it does make them a little bit predictable, like when they have those guys in there, but that's when they mix in the weirdness, the hook and lateral, the fourth down pass in Minnesota that beat the Vikings, throwing to Panay Sewell. And that sort of creativity is where, you know, he gets away with being like, you know, in short yards, Jamal Williams was getting the ball. They're not hiding it. It's executing well and playing against the strengths of your better players. That's something that Dan Campbell deserves a lot of credit for as a head coach. I'm not going to slight him there, but Johnson certainly has done that with the

Starting point is 00:08:36 offense too. Love it. You've got to love that confident play calling. It's nice when it actually works out for the team. The Colts have had that where they've maybe called plays confidently and did not have business doing so at times so looking at Ben Johnson specifically you know as a head coaching prospect one thing that really drew Jim Irsay we'll just say Jim Irsay to Jeff Saturday was you know the the leadership and accountability he showed as a player. He's a rah-rah guy.

Starting point is 00:09:07 He can obviously relate to the players as a former player himself, but he's going to try and keep guys in line. So I think we're all under the impression the Colts really want to retain a bit of that. Does Ben Johnson have that in him, the rah-rah type? Or what's his relationship like with players? So he is not that effervescent of a personality. He's certainly not a doornail, but this is a guy who's going to keep it fairly professional.

Starting point is 00:09:37 The guys love him. They certainly respect him. I've seen that in practices. He's not a guy who's going to go get into somebody's face. He's not somebody who's going to, you know, jump off the sidelines and throw his headset up in the air when somebody does something spectacular. That's just not who he is. He is an energetic guy, but he's a guy that's going to more like get over to the sideline and say, okay, let's sit down. Let's look at this on the Microsoft surface and let's talk this out. That's more of the kind of a coaching presence he is.

Starting point is 00:10:06 I don't want to say that he doesn't have a fun personality because the last time that we as Lions reporters got to talk to him, he had us in stitches for a few minutes. So he understands. And that part of the game, like the media relations, he's there already. He'll be good at that. And I think that gets a little bit lost in a coaching search. Yeah, he's a fantastic offensive coordinator, but you want to know, can he handle organizing a practice?

Starting point is 00:10:32 Can he handle all the different team meetings and things like that? The media part, I think he'll be fine going out and doing the daily press conferences. It is the other things that are the question. It's more of a question of we don't know because we've never seen him do it. It doesn't mean he can't. It just means that he hasn't. And that's one of the reasons why you interview him and find out if that's a fit for you or not. Yeah. And last question we have real quick on Ben Johnson before we have to jump to some Aaron Glenn stuff here. Jake was telling me that you tweeted something last week about coordinators not necessarily always being good head coaches you know you could be a great coordinator but not be the greatest head coach

Starting point is 00:11:07 uh and i know that lions fans don't want to lose ben johnson i know they don't i've seen i've seen the the photoshops of him robbing banks and him you know putting mayo in his coffee and stuff like that you know all the all the stuff that that people are trying to do but in your opinion do you think johnson has what it takes to be a good head coach even though i mean we know he's a great offensive coordinator but can he be a really good head coach in your opinion i think he can be absolutely um and that wasn't necessarily specify or specifically directed at johnson uh some of it is directed at a couple of coordinators who were getting interviews that I think like, why? That was more general broadly. I do think that Ben Johnson, if he's given a chance,

Starting point is 00:11:54 will wind up being a good head coach. I don't know if it's going to be this year or next year or whenever, but he's certainly a bright mind and a guy that enough players are going to relate to that I think he's got a very good shot at being a good head coach. Awesome. That's definitely encouraging to hear. Cause I mean, that's one guy that Zach and I've had circled for a while. We know the Colts like him quite a bit. So that'll be interesting to see how that one plays out. The Colts season is over, but that doesn't mean that you've got to stop playing daily fantasy.

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Starting point is 00:13:35 completely turned around from the year before. However, you know, the Lions defense wasn't necessarily the same story. They had some nice young players, got great performance from guys like Aiden Hutchinson and some guys across the line. But overall, the group, you know, they ranked near the bottom of the league in some certain important categories. So what does make Aaron Glenn an intriguing prospect for other teams to look at? So we'll go back to what we just talked about, about the best coordinators don't necessarily make the best head coaches. He wasn't necessarily the best coordinator, but I do think that what he does does translate very well to being a head

Starting point is 00:14:14 coach. He is much more of an overseer than a micromanager. And I think that's one of the, one of the reasons why a lot of great coordinators fail is that they are laser focused on one thing and they can't really broaden that out. I don't think Aaron Glenn has that problem at all. I think this is a guy who sees the entire, you know, scope of not just the defense, but also special teams, you know, like, okay, my backup safeties, they're going to be on the special teams over here. So I got to, you know, make sure that they're prepared for that and that type of thing. And he's a very effective communicator in that way and a very effective leader.

Starting point is 00:14:49 And he is more of the rah-rah guy. He is an emotionally intense guy. You will see him get in players' faces when they screw up. Ask Jeff Okuda. That's funny because Aubrey Pleasant took the heat and he got fired and needed to get fired, by the way. And Aaron Glenn made a very good decision in how they filled that hole and that actually helped the team.

Starting point is 00:15:14 So I think Glenn has the presence and the overarching leadership style that I think would lend very well to being head coach. Yeah. Do you, do you think someone like Aaron Glenn, do you think he's someone who'd be kind of rigid with his defensive scheme when he, like when he come in and he'd want to be the defense coordinator as well as the head coach, or would he kind of bring someone, you think he'd bring someone that he would trust to kind of run that side?

Starting point is 00:15:39 I think he would certainly have his hands all over it. Doesn't necessarily mean he would be the coordinator. I'll use the Cleveland Rousers as an example. Alex Van Pelt is the offensive coordinator there. Everybody knows it's Kevin Stefanski's offense. I think that would be the case with Aaron Glenn. He's going to bring somebody along, somebody that he'll delegate to maybe making some play calls, maybe giving him some constructive criticism and input on what he's doing. But it would absolutely be Aaron Glenn's defense.

Starting point is 00:16:06 And Aaron Glenn, he played under Bill Parcells. He is that kind of guy. He is very much cut from that cloth of an attacking-style defense, 4-3, 3-4, kind of amoebic style, very aggressive, will get some exotic blitzes. He's got some of that Ryan brother madness in him, again, for better and for worse. For much worse early in the season. You've got to remember, the Lions had one player this year that was 30 years older over.

Starting point is 00:16:34 It was Michael Brockers, and he didn't play. They started four rookies on defense most of the season and got a lot better. They were a top 10 defense in the last eight weeks of the year. They were just so bad at the beginning of the year that their numbers stayed down in the lower 20s and everything else just because, I mean, this was a team that they went two games in a row without making the opponent punt. That's really hard to do. And that's just a deep well. They really did play a lot better at the end of the season and I think Aaron Glenn deserves some credit for that

Starting point is 00:17:08 and it took a long time for Lions fans to come to that. There are still people who want him gone and would be very happy if the Colts hired him as the head coach so we could get rid of him as a defensive coordinator and I don't have a great retort for those folks yet either. I like Aaron Glenn. I think he's going, I think he would be a very good head coach. And again, I think he might be a better head coach than he is coordinator,

Starting point is 00:17:34 but it can be a tough sell. Look, I know the Indianapolis fan base pretty well. I lived in Indy when the Colts moved there. I know what it's like to have that sort of pressure. And in a division, good Lord, it sure seems winnable, even with Jacksonville being the way they are. You don't want a guy who's like, this guy, his defenses were bad. Like two years in a row, they were really, really bad.

Starting point is 00:18:01 Like I know that's going to be a tough sell, but there's a lot to like about Aaron Glenn. There really is. Something you said got me thinking there. We've had some gripes over here in Colts land the last couple years with the defensive coordinators. Overall, very good coordinators. Not much to gripe about there, but they tended to hold favorites with some of their players, guys, you know, who they've coached previously, or they felt fit their scheme perfectly. And maybe that was

Starting point is 00:18:32 at the expense of some younger guys with more talent getting playing time. Does Glenn do that where he seems to play favorites or do the best guys tend to play? He has evolved in that. Last year, 2021, I think he did play some favorites just because, again, they were young then as well. But this is a guy, there was a reason why Alex Ancelone stayed as the starting linebacker for the team, even though he was god-awful early in the year. And by the way, he was really good down the stretch.

Starting point is 00:19:04 And I'll just throw this out there. If Aaron Glenn gets hired as your head coach, you better believe Alex Ancelotti's going to the Colts. And honestly, he played very well down the stretch. I think you saw him realize that it has to be a meritocracy. That's something that Dan Campbell's very big on. It's not the Pete Carroll way where, like, every position is open every week and you just have to keep big on. It's not the Pete Carroll way where every position is open every week and you just have to keep earning it.

Starting point is 00:19:28 It's not like that. But it's not like if they benched a couple of guys this year. Jeff Okuda is a good example down the stretch. Wasn't playing well, wasn't playing to the standards that he had established early in the season, and Glenn's like, no, you're out, man. I'm putting Amani Orawarie, I'm putting Mike Hughes in here. Those guys are not good players. But they earned that because Okuda wasn't playing well I think that I think that's a good sign for Glenn's evolve development and evolvement as a

Starting point is 00:19:55 head coach yeah definitely and the last question and it's kind of just more of a summary question from what everything you said here is it feels like a lot of teams I don't want to say a lot of teams but I do think there is a sect of teams that want that next Dan Campbell. They want that Mike Vrabel type. They want those guys, the rah-rah, like explosive press conferences, fun guys. Do you think Aaron Glenn kind of fits that cut of coach? Yes, he does. Absolutely. he is a very um uh gregarious guy uh and we got to see it like last year at the senior bowl he wound up running the deuce daly was actually the head coach for the lions down there uh but glenn handled a lot of the media uh and we got to talk to him on the podcast he's a great very thoughtful guy um he is an excitable guy he He will say things that are like, really? Like he said that? Obviously

Starting point is 00:20:47 not to Dan Campbell, you know, biting kneecaps or dragging people out in the ocean to drown them. But, you know, he's got that in him too. So he would be a fun one. Ben Johnson is much more of a sly, like almost sardonic sense of humor. And it plays very well and it works very well too. But Glenn is definitely much more of the in-your-face type of coach that I think you're describing there. Awesome. Awesome, man. Well, hey, we appreciate you jumping on and talking about these head coaching candidates. I know Colts fans would particularly favor one of them over the other. But we appreciate you talking about both these guys

Starting point is 00:21:22 and giving some positive feedback on Aaron Glenn, who I know a lot of Colts fans are putting towards the bottom of their wish list. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate getting in with you guys and good luck with your coaching search, however it may go. Look, I've been through a lot of these guys. I know what you're going through. Hopefully it's over sooner than later is all I can say, because when they drag on, it's usually not good. Pray for us, buddy. Pray for us, buddy. Pray for us. But guys, that was Jeff Risdon of, what was it? Lionswire? Was that what it was, Jake? Right? Lionswire? I got to pull that up. Of the Lionswire. You guys definitely go follow him there on social media. He does a great job. And before we close out today, guys, we're going to talk about our thoughts on these two head coaching candidates. But first, we got to talk

Starting point is 00:22:10 about our friends here at BetOnline.net, which is your number one source for sports betting info, stats, news, and analysis. Get the latest odds and trends for every professional and amateur league out there. From pro football to college bowl season to basketball and world cup we've got it all here at betonline.net if you love sports podcasts you can even find those at bet online as well we're the fastest and easiest way to get your sports betting info head to the website today or use your mobile device to learn more bet online where the game starts all right jake so before we kind of close this out here we're going to talk a little bit about our preferences with these two candidates and what we think about both these candidates here. And I think Jeff did a great job of really, you know, showing the type of personality that

Starting point is 00:22:55 Ben Johnson is and why that offense worked. But like I kind of said there right at the end of that last segment is I like that we got to go into Aaron Glenn because I do think a lot of Colts fans are a little out on Aaron Glenn. And I think he kind of brings everything that Ursae wants in Jeff Saturday. I think Aaron Glenn brings that outside of playing for the Colts. You know, Aaron Glenn was a multiple-time pro bowler, a very good player back when he played. He played under Belichick and a lot of really good defensive guys. Coached under Sean Payton there in New Orleans

Starting point is 00:23:28 and obviously turned that defense around the last couple games here this year for the Lions. I'm not here saying Aaron Glenn's my top option by any means, but I think if the Colts want to go for that rah-rah, fun impressors, hold everybody accountable, get in your face, I think Aaron Glenn is much better than their in-house candidate that they're kind of trying to prop up. Yeah, I honestly feel much better about both these guys. I didn't know a ton about Glenn as a coach. He's been a riser everywhere he's gone, ultimately being defensive coordinator now.

Starting point is 00:23:59 But yeah, as Jeff was talking, I was like, wow, that sounds like qualified Jeff Saturday. So I mean, I think you're exactly right. I mean, Ursae loves Jeff Saturday as an individual, not just his traits that he brings. Right. But if you're checking off the boxes of the traits, you have a guy who has been coaching in the league now for, what, 10 years or so? Boom. There you go. You have a Jeff Saturday with experience right there.

Starting point is 00:24:24 I mean, neither of those guys knew the locker room to begin with, so you're not losing much. Right, right. And before we keep making this a Jeff Saturday thing and talking to Aaron Glenn, obviously you guys want to hear us talk about Ben Johnson. And the way that Jeff was describing him, and you could probably attest to this more than me, Jake, when it comes to just the media presence and just the way that he carries himself, he reminds me a lot of Nick Sirianni when Nick Sirianni was here you

Starting point is 00:24:49 know Nick Sirianni was not this over overly crazy like personality or anything like that but every time you talk to him you got the feeling he was a genuine and smart guy like very smart guy knew what the what they were trying to do on offense and he was just a really good media presence I know he got hammered by that Philadelphia media when he first went to Philly, but you can kind of see that now every time he goes into those Philly media stuff, he does a really good job.

Starting point is 00:25:13 I think Ben Johnson is kind of that personality that I know a lot of beat reporters here in Indy were really, really close with Sirianni and really, really enjoyed his press conferences. I think Ben Johnson's kind of a similar personality and typing to that. Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, and this isn't to, this isn't to get on Ibraflux at all, but you know, the, when you get the coordinators weekly, you get both of them back to back.

Starting point is 00:25:37 What you would get from Sirianni was night and day, what you would get from Ibraflux. Cause he was, he was just so much more down to earth and willing to just share information. It didn't have to be revealing, but he knows the media has a job. It sounds like Ben Johnson has that part of it locked down. And Sirianni is maybe a little more fiery on the practice field, but you don't have to be that way. There's different levels of accountability and leadership. So that was pretty good and insightful getting to hear more about that. I mean, at the end of the day, you just want a guy who's able to use what he's got to the best of everyone's abilities.

Starting point is 00:26:15 Like, there's no reason, like, this guy has to yell at people. Like, this guy has to chill. You know, it just sounds like he's a pretty good candidate and has a really good mind for how to run an offense. Right. And I think a lot of people, you know, they come from different cuts of cloth here. You know, or a lot of people who played a lot of high school football or they watched a lot of high school football or something,

Starting point is 00:26:37 they think that that's the way you've got to coach, is that rah-rah yelling in your face, pump them up, motivator. Friday night lights, you know, I'm going to yell in the locker room and get you guys flying out there and stuff like that where there are multiple ways to lead. I'm not saying rah-rah is bad. Like I said, Dan Campbell is one of the fastest risers in head coaching with how he puts his staff together, how he gets his team to play for him. Mike Vrabel has consistently got the best out of a Titans team

Starting point is 00:27:00 that has probably been lacking the last couple seasons in a lot of areas. You know, these are coaches that are rah-rah guys that have done some good things. But we've also seen, you know, the Andy Reid, like Andy Reid's not going to say some fiery, you know, some press conference. Bill Belichick is not going to, you know, pump you up with some motivating speech about how football is a game of inches or something. That's not those guys, but they're still great head coaches nonetheless. So there's no right or wrong way to personality wise with coaching. I know the Colts

Starting point is 00:27:29 are certainly looking one way or at least leaning one way. But I do like that Chris Ballard has kind of opened up this search to include, you know, you have your Ben Johnsons, you guys who are just going to be your intellectual nerds that are going to show you what you did wrong on your thing and be really down to earth. And then you have your Aaron Glenns who are going to get in your face and bench you if you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing. So I like how just diverse this search is. And you can see it just with these two candidates right here. Yeah, one thing I really liked what Jeff said about Aaron Glenn,

Starting point is 00:27:58 and it's something you maybe don't think about a whole lot, is yeah, their defense has stunk you know the end of time since since glenn's been there um but he's one of those guys who kind of sees the forest through the trees he's an overseer which is what you have to be as as a head coach because there there is times where guys are too laser focused on something and it means you have to have rock solid coordinators to bring with you if you're going to be a head coach. So it sounds like he'll be able to delegate. And I mean,

Starting point is 00:28:31 you've done something on him. I have to look again at his coordinator tree. He might be able to bring with him, but it sounds like he might be a better candidate than what I initially thought, or at least I know more about him now. Yeah. And my last two things I'll actually say about these two candidates here because I know we got to close out soon I'll let you close

Starting point is 00:28:47 out here Jake is offensively I think Ben Johnson would be a really really good thing for the Colts because we heard a lot of complaints about Frank Reich's offense being too complex and too demanding of the players where Ben Johnson's scheme seems fairly simplistic putting players in the best position to succeed and even if you're being predictable, being dominant in your predictability. That's very much a Tom Moore-type offensive style, rather than Frank Reich, where it's very complex and tricking defenses constantly and stuff like that. So I think that might be a good change for the offense.

Starting point is 00:29:19 Now, on the other end, the Colts' defense shifting to a Patriots-style, aggressive, hybrid 3-4-4-3, that would be fascinating to see. I don't know if it would work, but it would be extremely interesting to see if Aaron Glenn is head coach and tries to install that here. But yeah, very, very interesting candidates there. And I don't hate either one of them. Definitely higher on Ben Johnson, but I really, really wouldn't hate Aaron Glenn.

Starting point is 00:29:43 I think there are some good things about him there. Yeah. Obviously with Johnson, if you're bringing in a new quarterback with, with the fourth pick or top five, wherever they, they wind up picking, certainly an offense like that, that's based on effort and execution. Seems like it would be easier to integrate a guy into rather than a mad scientist type of approach, but that's it for us. Everyone we'll be back with you tomorrow to keep chatting about

Starting point is 00:30:06 all the latest Colts news and updates. Right before we came on here, it came out that Mike Kafka and Wink Martindale are going to interview, which are a couple guys we talked about recently, and D'Amico Ryans as well. So this situation is evolving constantly, and we're going to keep trying to get really good guests

Starting point is 00:30:24 like Jeff, for example, to come on and tell us more about these guys that we don't maybe know a whole lot about yet. Yeah, we expect this head coaching search to go on quite a bit, so we'll have a lot of time to keep getting these guests on to talk about the numerous head coaching guys that are going to be interviewing. I think we're going to be up to 12 here soon. I think it's 12. You count Saturday and Bubba, and then 10 externals right now. It's absolutely

Starting point is 00:30:45 insane. So make sure you guys are following at LockedOnColts, at JakeArthurNFL, and at ZachHicks2 on Twitter for all the news and updates. Also subscribe to the LockedOn Colts channel on YouTube, wherever you listen to your podcasts. And thank you guys for making us your first listen of the day. Check out LockedOnNFL

Starting point is 00:31:01 podcast for your next listen. Bring you the local insights that you love to the national spotlight with daily conversations on the biggest NFL stories. Locked on NFL, available on YouTube or every podcast. We'll see you guys tomorrow.

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