Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Indianapolis Colts: Will Shaquille Leonard Ever Suit Up Again?

Starting point is 00:00:00 When will Shaquille Leonard be back and should we be concerned that he's still going to be the maniac when he does finally return? Let's get to it. You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello, hello. Thanks for tuning in and making us your first listen of the day. This is your daily podcast covering your Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. I am Jake Arthur.

Starting point is 00:00:47 He is Zach Hicks. You know the two of us from horseshoehuddle.com. I am your resident credentialed media member of this site, bringing you the scoop from the facility, the stadium, training camp coming up here in a couple weeks. And Zach is just the rootinest, tootinest film guy in the biz. So welcome to the show on today's show. While we have talked about it a little bit recently, today's all about Shaquille Leonard. It is still a topic of conversation. And if you look past the quarterback situation, Leonard is probably the biggest question mark remaining on the roster. The

Starting point is 00:01:23 team has continued to talk about it. You know, Jim Ursae was on the Pat McAfee show recently. So, you know, people everywhere when it comes to the Colts are still talking about this. So we figured we would indulge today as well. So we'll talk about kind of what led us to this point, his injury history, you know, thoughts about his future, what he and the Colts are now saying, and why he is actually still so critical to the defense, especially if he's out there. If he's not, and you involve the depth that they've had the past couple years, regardless, he's a huge piece to the defense. So Zach, let's look at this thing. Going through his history, he's never played a full season. He's mostly played full seasons.

Starting point is 00:02:06 It's not like he's been plagued by injury throughout his career, but as a rookie, he missed a game 2019. He missed three games with a concussion 2020. He had a groin that cost him a couple of games, had a COVID game in 2021. And then obviously last year, he was only able to play in three games, but had only one of those start to finish and he was only able to play in three games, but had only one of those start to finish and he was on a pitch count in it. So really, you know, barely had a season last year.

Starting point is 00:02:34 And so he had two procedures last year, June and November on his back to kind of help tidy up some nerve stuff that also affected his lower leg. I believe the latest on it is just nerve issues and getting strength back in that lower leg, the calf area. That's kind of what the biggest problem has been since last year. And so he hasn't, since that surgery in November, he hasn't really been full go. He wasn't out there during spring football. We don't know what his status is going to be in training camp. It doesn't look great to start out. So what are you thinking about this, Zach?

Starting point is 00:03:13 What are your overall thoughts right now where Leonard currently stands? Yeah, you know, it's tough after you just had that season that he just went through where, you know, he missed pretty much all of training camp with that back injury. Well, actually, he missed most of training camp, if I remember correctly. I think he missed all training camp. Yeah, but it was with the lower leg injury. It wasn't with the back thing. It was with the lower leg injury.

Starting point is 00:03:38 And then right before the season started, it was announced that he was going to undergo nerve surgery in his back to fix the lower leg thing, you know, to fix all of that. So then he went through that big procedure, like major, major invasive surgery to fix that nerve issue, which held him out for most of the season. And then right when he came back, I believe he got a concussion and like busted his nose, too, on the same play. Like it was just a horrific play that that led to him missing some more games. Then he comes back and is on that pitch count, like you said, and then plays a little bit of the Washington Commanders game. And then he gets shut down for the whole season because the back flares up again, because the lower legs flare up again. So it's just like a nightmare season for him. Like there

Starting point is 00:04:18 was just nothing going right. And as a result, he had to have a second major surgery in that same area to fix those nerve issues and you know this is kind of like really concerning you know like it's it's hard to like say this lightly because it's not like it's just like like i don't even want to say that this is like a lower thing but like a torn acl you can usually get the surgery on that go through your recovery and there's not going to be super long-term like like multiple surgeries to fix it typically typically sometimes there are but typically you can get that thing cleaned up because of where modern medicine is with that now but having two major surgeries on nerve issues in your back that have been leading to issues in your lower legs like that has to be just a major

Starting point is 00:05:02 major recovery time has to be has to be be major, major, uh, again, just trauma in your back and trauma in your body to go through those types of surgeries. And, you know, I've seen issues with people in my everyday life. Uh, my mom actually included where she's had nerve surgery and you have to see them try to rebuild that, that confidence in that body part. Um, so I can only imagine what it is for an athlete who has to be a tip top shape and is going to be out there taking a lot of hits. And, you know, I think the concern here with Shaquille Leonard is, you know, he's, he's opened up about injuries in the past and he's talked about, you know, with this concussion back in 2019, where he really contemplated his future because he had a concussion. Now flash forward to now he's had two major surgeries and

Starting point is 00:05:42 another concussion. Like there has to be some concern about what his future is in the NFL. And if there is much of a future with this major surgery, with him still not on the practice field, him going through a major recovery process and having another concussion where, again, last time he was contemplating things that he was very open and honest about back in 2019 when he had a concussion. So it's like there is reason to be concerned here. You know, we're not making a mountain out of a molehill. Like there really, really is a reason to be concerned with what his logical future is in the NFL and with the Colts. Yeah, I mean, he's the only one that can speak on his current headspace.

Starting point is 00:06:20 But just judging from the past, just like you said, in 2019, you know, with that third week and the concussion, he had a headache like that whole time, I believe, you know, he started to think, you know, I have a wife and kids, like, what does my future look like at the end of the 2021 season, even just from a football perspective, I believe he said he fell in love, fell out of love with the game briefly, i mean no one could blame him if if you know if he's still contemplating his future and and you know that that could be part of the delay as well because like you said you have to be you have to be confident in your body moving forward and he has said before you know i don't want to go out there and be a detriment to the

Starting point is 00:07:02 team i want to go out there and look like myself yeah he doesn't want to go out there and be a detriment to the team. I want to go out there and look like myself. He doesn't want to be disgusted with what he sees on film, watching himself play. So yeah, that's really interesting. And from a Colts perspective, I mean, at the end of the day, this is a business. You hope to see him back out there. But his contract, it goes through 2026, I believe.

Starting point is 00:07:24 But for the Colts, you know, after next season, there's only $12 million remaining in dead cap. And they would save, I believe, like $50 million in cap space over those last couple years. But you've got to look at it from the Colts' perspective as well. They've also got to be contemplating his future. Like, what do they do with that contract if nothing really happens this season and you've got largely two missing seasons from this one player who is the highest paid at his position yeah yeah i mean i don't want to jump the gun here and say that he's already missing this next season and look at the contract too hard but right i'm sure it's something and that's in the back of the Colts mind in the back of all of our minds as

Starting point is 00:08:05 well, where it's like, look again, you said he's opened up about falling out of love with football. He's opened up about contemplating his future and stuff. And again, that doesn't mean that he's destined to retire, but when you have these kinds of intrusive thoughts and these things, these like thoughts about bigger things than football, and you've already got your life changing money. You've already started your foundation and all that.

Starting point is 00:08:28 Like he's done a lot of good with that money. And obviously he's doing a lot with his family with that money and you're getting older. Like it's tough going through this process multiple times. That's the big reason why. And we're going to talk about in our second segment, Andrew Luck retired, you know, it wasn't that that injury was just crippling and he was never going to recover from it it's he didn't want to go through another big rehab process as an as a grown man like turning nearly turning 30 he didn't want to go through that entire process

Starting point is 00:08:55 again when he's already made life-changing money and he's got interest away from football so again we're not we're not just saying this is doom and gloom like Shaquille Leonard's going to retire and walk away like Andrew Luck did. But there has to be more concern for this than just any old injury, because this is two major surgeries he's had. And he's had a lot of injuries in his career, and he's already made life-changing money. Like, there is real reason for concern here, especially with him kind of not really being close to playing right now from all reports, which I know we're going to talk about here in the second segment, but I'm concerned, you're concerned. I mean, you were looking at the contract there, so I know you're pretty concerned here too, Jake.

Starting point is 00:09:35 But yeah, it's a big thing to talk about right now because he's such an impactful player, and I think there is logical fear in this situation. Yeah, I think there has to be until we hear something truly productive, not just, I feel. You know, we got to see something on the field. So in a second here, we're going to get into more of, you know, what Leonard's saying now, what the team is saying now and things like that, because you want to hear it from the horse's mouth, no pun intended. However, first, let me tell you about our friends over at eBay Motors. Our partners over eBay Motors have teamed up with locked on fantasy football host, Vinnie Iyer.

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Starting point is 00:12:36 As our guy, Jake Arthur is going to be boots on the ground at Colts training camp. I might be out there for a little bit as well. I got to make my way across the country to, to get there. But if I'm not, Jake will be there throughout all training camp, but if the team was coming out and saying like, oh yeah, we're expecting him to practice next week, then I'm feeling good. Or if they were, if the team doctor were coming out and saying like, oh yeah, he's

Starting point is 00:13:13 progressing super well. And, and we're expecting him to get out here in training camp pretty soon, then we'd be feeling better. But it's been a lot of non-committal stuff lately from the Colts perspective. And I think part of that is, you know, part of the reason that it's kind of come to the forefront right now is because Jim Irsay went on the Pat McAfee show the other day and said, you know, Shaquille Leonard has a chance, has a chance. What? Like, has a chance? Like, I'm not even faulting Jim here. Like, because what we love about Jim is you get the unabashed honesty from him all the time and I think that's what he was giving us there was a

Starting point is 00:13:51 look behind the curtain being like oh yeah he has a chance it's like dude we're almost a year away from his surgery you know like we're we're closing we're past the half year mark of his surgery and hearing he has a chance for whatever, for this next season or for the off season, like that's concerning, man. That that's super concerning. And it's, it's just another thing you can kind of throw in there to be like, is he going to play this year?

Starting point is 00:14:16 Like, cause he has a chance doesn't inspire much confidence in you. No. And I mean, sure. It sounds optimistic, but again, when you look at the fact that you would you're more looking to hear that yeah he has a chance to be ready week one that's what you're hoping to hear not he has a chance to play this year because like you said yeah we're well past when the thing started and like i i do not like you there's no blame to go around it's it's not

Starting point is 00:14:43 something you can blame anybody for anything, but we've just learned that, you know, these sort of noncommittal answers and things like you're just looking for productive or truly optimistic talk and you're just not getting it. It honestly like, and no one could have foreseen the Andrew Luck retirement coming when it did, but like this just puts me in that exact same spot. It's rinse and repeat every week because when we get to the season or when we get

Starting point is 00:15:10 back to the point where we're going to be talking to the team every week again, Leonard's status will come up until he gets back. What it was all last year was basically he'll be ready when he feels 100% or from his perspective, I'll be ready when, you know, I feel like myself again and this and that. And it's like, okay, well, like there's no timetable to that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not even saying like, oh, yeah, we deserve answers. No, we don't.

Starting point is 00:15:40 Yeah, I'm not in the least bit saying that. I'm just saying that's a reason to be concerned. You know, I'm not getting up there and demanding, you tell us exactly when Shaquille Leonard is coming back or else. Like, I don't care about that. I'm perfectly fine with them playing it by ear and letting the recovery process, you know, go about the way it's supposed to go.

Starting point is 00:15:59 But it doesn't make me not concerned about it. Because like you said, you know, you and I were very close to the Andrew Luck situation. I was actually out there at camp, I think, like two or three days before he retired. And then you were obviously working for the Colts organization back then as a Colts reporter. And, you know, that whole entire month of August leading up to his retirement was, you know, Andrew's progressing. He's progressing. We just want to see more from him. We want to see the confidence up, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:26 he'll be out there when he feels ready. We're still trying to figure out what's going on with the calf and all that. Like it was concerning. And then obviously the shocking retirement comes, but flash forward to now, every time you talk to Shane Syken or every time you talk to Chris Ballard, it's like, Oh yeah, he's progressing. You know, we'll see where he's at. We'll see what's going on. Like it just, it's concerning. Like it sounds very similar, you know, see a lot of the stuff we heard about Andrew Luck prior to his retirement. And again,

Starting point is 00:16:53 I'm not saying that this means Shaquille Leonard's going to come out with a retirement announcement tomorrow, but it does kind of leave my pessimistic mind, I guess, to go there because we have seen a star player walk away with an injury concern that wasn't some quick fix, I guess, to go there because we have seen a star player walk away with an injury concern that wasn't some quick fix, you know, just like what Shaquille Leonard's going through right now. Yeah. And I will say, cause I mean this, I've got to imagine this probably has a, again, pretty concerning theme and tone to it today. Everything that's come out from them has been somewhat positive while non noncommittal really. It's been positive, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:29 Shaquille worked out with Zyre Franklin in the Tampa area, I think during the off season and, you know, they, they both had a lot of positive to say about it. I mean, Zyre said he looked great. Shaq said he feels way better. And this was probably at least a couple months ago. He said he feels way better right now than he did at any point last year. And again, there were points last year where he was able to get on the field. So I mean, gun to my head, I don't think he's going to be out the whole time because it does

Starting point is 00:18:02 sound a little better than last year, or maybe they've just learned how to better phrase it. I don't know. But I do want to say there has been some positive notes coming from their side this offseason about it. Like, it sounds like it is coming along. It's just probably not where they want it yet. Yeah, yeah. And again, I don't want to make this podcast all seem doom and gloom.

Starting point is 00:18:24 Like Shaquille Leonard is certainly retiring. He's never going to play in the NFL again. It's just, we have our fears around it. Like that, that's the main point that we want to come to with this, with this episode. And we're trying to give you guys the reasons and the groundwork for that. We talked about his, his injury history, talked about some of the comments and how they kind of mirror the Andrew Luck stuff, but at the end of the day, he could still go back out there in week one and beat Shaquille Leonard again, which is this super impactful defensive player who forces 400 turnovers in the craziest ways possible. Like, that's the best case scenario here. But you also have to consider the other possibility, which is maybe this injury just doesn't heal.

Starting point is 00:19:06 You know, like, again, that's not exactly what heal, you know, like, it's not again, that's not exactly what's happening. But like, I'm just worried. That's, that's the best way I could phrase it here is like, there's reason to be worried here. And it's not just all smoke for the heck of for the heck of making smoke, you know, like, there is legitimate fear here. And I'm glad to see that he's working out with Zyra Franklin I'm glad to see that he is doing at least some stuff away from football but like I want to see him on the football field before I start to calm down a little bit about this if that makes sense yeah and I'll also say you and I have been very pro Shaq Leonard throughout this whole last couple years dealing with this.

Starting point is 00:19:45 Cause he's had his detractors people say, you know, he's soft or he's not in it or, you know, he's got, he's got his bag very much. Not that because no one is gutted about not being out there as much as he is.

Starting point is 00:19:57 Like as much as you, as a fan might be annoyed about it, he is, he feels awful about not being able to play and be out there with this guy. So like, come on so yeah like come on like come on calling a player is soft we've had major nerve surgery in his back like come on man yeah i i have seen some people i've had some people say the craziest things about like ever since he changed his name to shaquille leonard he doesn't want to play football like get out of here man like that's very weird like look we're talking about a football player we're

Starting point is 00:20:24 talking about a crazy football player. Shaquille Leonard is crazy on the football field. Shaquille Leonard's the type I think would build a burner account just to doubt himself, just so he has motivation going into a game. Like, that's who he is. You know, he needs to find every little way to motivate himself, and then he plays like his hair is on fire. You know, it's not always perfect.

Starting point is 00:20:42 There are coverage gaps, and there are some mistakes in the run game, taking on blockers and stuff. like he's a phenomenal player he's hall of fame bound if he continues what he was doing before the injury uh and he's done a lot of good things for this organization he's not just giving up you know it's like come on if he were just giving up he would have retired already he would like he would have had the second surgery and just stepped away like if he was really giving. But for him to have to go through this long recovery process multiple times for this injury, that shows his commitment to the team. So yeah, get out of here if you're going to come at it with that stuff.

Starting point is 00:21:15 We're talking about logical fears with the recovery of this injury and just if he can beat Shaquille Leonard again. But yeah, we're not talking about him being soft or anything like that. And I think this segues perfectly into our next segment, Jake, where we're going to talk about the impact that Shaquille Leonard brings to this defense and why it's so important to get him out there. But first, a word from our friends over at Bird Dogs. Fellas, it's summer.

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Starting point is 00:22:47 That's birddogs.com slash locked on NFL for a free Yeti style Tumblr. You won't want to take your Bird Dogs off. I promise you. All right, Jake. So getting into why Shaquille Leonard is super important. Now, I have been on record multiple times saying that, yes, Shaquille Leonard is a phenomenal player, but I have concerns with his fitness defense, some concerns with some of the overall things he does on the field. But there's one thing that we really can't refute when it comes to Shaquille Leonard, and that is just how valuable the turnovers are that he brings. There's just something about him.

Starting point is 00:23:22 I don't know if he has some voodoo magic or what it is with him but he just is a walking turnover like he just creates turnovers and turnovers for the longest time have been this extremely volatile stat where you know a line where a linebacker could go one season creating 10 turnovers or 11 turnovers and the next season maybe create one or two just because of the opportunity because because of the way the ball balances, because of the way things happen. But Shaquille Leonard has always been consistent in how he creates towers.

Starting point is 00:23:53 It could be from punch outs. It could be from interceptions and the interceptions could be, you know, the ball just bouncing into his hands. It could be him making a phenomenal play, whatever it is about him. He's just a walking, talking turnover.

Starting point is 00:24:06 And the Colts missed that last year. That was the biggest thing missing from this defense. And it's why they were out there for so many plays. They just could not get teams off the field because they could not force turnover. So when you take a player like Shaquille Leonard out of a defense, yes, you miss the good run defense. Yes, you miss the coverage highs that he brings in the past game, but you really miss the turnovers. Those turnovers are so, so huge in today's NFL. So when he's not out there, you could definitely feel it on this defense because every play there's a chance for a turnover with Shaquille Leonard, and you just did not have that last year with the Colts defense. It's really true. I mean, even in the spare parts

Starting point is 00:24:45 he was able to play last season, that Washington game, he had a pick fall right into his hands. It just defies logic. It truly does. And with how good that Colts defense was for so much of last year, imagine how it would have been with those turnovers. Like, right. That's how we will finally see the Colts at its full potential. And again, I, you know, a couple of years ago before he had that contract extension, even true football guys who may not appreciate like the totality of his game that I talked to, you know, they were like, yeah, he, you know, he might give up this and this on defense, but you have, you had to give him that huge contract because like you said, there's just some sort of magic to his game where he is a magnet to the ball.

Starting point is 00:25:31 Yeah. And takeaways are just bonus points. Like you just, there's nothing more valuable than that on the defense. So it's incredibly invaluable. And I mean, from a leadership perspective as well, like you, you got a really young defense. And I mean, from a leadership perspective as well, like you got a really young defense now. I mean, you do have guys like DeForest Buckner and Zyre Franklin and everything. But a guy like Leonard just like makes it more fun to play

Starting point is 00:25:55 and they feed off of his energy. And he's just a live wire out there. Like there's just mentally, physically, and again, the turnovers, like him out there is just an enormous bonus for the Colts defense. Yeah, yeah, you just need that impact. And I, again, I am one of those people on record, like you said, those football guys who nitpicks him and nitpicks part of his game.

Starting point is 00:26:15 And there are some reasons why I was a little lower on him than a lot of people. But I was fully on board with paying him because of the turnovers. Like I, I think it was like 2020 where I just stopped like saying that those are going to regress because it kind of like you got to the point where it's like okay these aren't going to regress it's just what he does it's just who he is you know like there are certain players like that you know obviously to a lesser degree because this player was a shut down corner as well but Deion Sanders was kind of this way you know he wasn't going to come up and fit the run Deion Sanders was taking run plays off and there was some coverage gas every now and then but he

Starting point is 00:26:49 was gonna he was gonna take the ball away that's what he would do and then once he took the ball away he'd make a big play happen Shaquille Leonard kind of has that level of impact where it's like sure he might get beat on a seam route over the middle and sure he might get washed by a center getting up to the second level in the run game, which he's gotten actually a lot better at that. But he will punch the ball out. He will come away with a game-winning interception. We saw during his fantastic rookie season just how many games he ended with interceptions. We saw it carry over to the 2019 season, also the 2020 season. It's just what he does. We would always say when a team had a final drive against the Colts, like, oh, we need a Shaquille Leonard turnover we need Shaquille Leonard interception like that's

Starting point is 00:27:29 always what we said yeah so that was the big thing missing last year and you know they have good depth behind him they have EJ Speed they have Zyra Franklin we're both extremely high on those two players but even if they're playing at pro bowl levels which they feasibly could because they're very good linebackers. They're not going to create the turnovers that he does. I mean, Zyra Franklin, what had one force fumble last year and no two force.

Starting point is 00:27:52 He had two force fumbles last year and zero interceptions. Like great, really good player last year had a really good season, but he just doesn't force the turnovers that Shaquille Leonard does. So that's just a major, major impact that these linebackers that we think are really good season, but he just doesn't force the turnovers that Shaquille Leonard does. So that's just a major, major impact that these linebackers that we think are really good just don't provide what Shaquille Leonard does. So that's why you just need him out there this year, even if you feel pretty good about that death behind him. And honestly, that even kind of took a hit because Bobby Okereke was arguably your potential

Starting point is 00:28:23 biggest playmaking linebacker outside of Leonard. He's gone now with the Giants. So you're really reliant now on Franklin and Speed, which on paper looks like a pretty good starting tandem. You hope someone like JoJo Doman could do something if someone got hurt, Cameron McGrone. But it looks a whole lot prettier if Leonard is out there and it's the, that starting three, because it's, it could be on real shaky ground otherwise,

Starting point is 00:28:49 because there's a lot of unknowns behind those starting to. So no, just from a depth perspective, it looks better with him out there. Statistically. I think you said they'd been top 11 every year since Leonard had been there. And last year they were bottom half of the, of the league with,

Starting point is 00:29:06 with those turnovers. So it's true. It's a proven statistical fact that it's just better with them out there. Yeah. I want to say they were top eight, every single season outside of 2019, that bad season, which could have reset.

Starting point is 00:29:20 And then obviously that peaked in 2021 when they were second in the NFL and turnovers and takeaways with like 33 that season behind only the Dallas Cowboys. Like they were averaging like two takeaways per game that year. And he was a big part of that. He was a massive, massive part of that. So when you take that out of the equation, then you see what they did last year where they fell almost outside the top 20 in turnovers forced. And the defense kind of fell apart late in the season because they just didn't have that juice to take the ball away when they needed it. But I think that's all we have on this topic here, Jake. Again, all you wonderful everydayers, we're going to be giving you

Starting point is 00:29:52 daily content in August, talking about Colts training camp, really getting into the nitty gritty of what to watch in training camp and doing some fun topics around that. And if you guys don't already follow at Lockdown Colts at JakeArthurFL, and at ZachHicks2, all on Twitter. Also, subscribe to LockedOnColts podcast on YouTube and wherever you list your podcasts. And let us know in the comment section on this YouTube video what you think about the Shaquille Leonard situation. Now, again, don't be hateful.

Starting point is 00:30:19 Don't say that he's soft or anything like that. We will not tolerate that kind of crap. But outside of that, let us know what you think about this topic. And, you know, are you concerned about the future of Shaquille Leonard? Or are we kind of blowing it out of proportion and being just crazy podcast guys? You let us know in the comments there.

Starting point is 00:30:35 We'd also love your guys' ratings reviews. So go to iTunes and do that whenever you have a chance. And we'll see you guys bright and early next week.

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