Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 12/6/19: The Athletic's Dane Brugler on the 2020 quarterback and wide receiver prospects

Episode Date: December 7, 2019

On today's episode, it's finally time to talk about the 2020 NFL Draft. Dane Brugler of The Athletic stops by for an in-depth conversation on the Colts' two biggest needs: QB and WR. What options are available for Indianapolis in Round 1 and Round 2? Hint: It could change the foundation of the Colts long-term.Brugler dives in on all of the following prospects at quarterback: Jordan Love (insider info here), Justin Herbert, Jacob Eason, Jalen Hurts. Then, it's time to go all-in on some wide receivers: Henry Ruggs, CeeDee Lamb, Laviska Shenault, Tee Higgins, Brandon Aiyuk, DeVonta Smith, Jalen Reagor.Trust me, Colts fans, you won't want to miss this one. Brugler provides insider access you won't find anywhere else. For such an important draft upcoming for the Colts, it's time to start preparing for April. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back into Locked On Colts, probably Locked On Podcast Network. Today, as always, we have Evan Sider. I'm joined by a very, very special guest today. We had him on during the spring, and he's back now as we're really previewing the draft for the first time on this podcast again for the 2020 draft. Dane Brugler, The Athletic. How are you doing today, Dane? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. No problem at all. Appreciate the time. If you guys haven't already subscribed to The Athletic, go ahead and do so, because Dane provides A-plus analysis. He's a vital tool for me during the draft to learn about some prospects and i want to talk to you dane about this 2020 draft class first off how does this stack up compared to when we talked last

time after the 2019 draft is this how would you rate this draft for the 2019 is it stronger up top or is it more depth i think this draft has uh the potential to because we don't know the underclassmen yet you know that's still a process that um is going to be fluid here the next uh next month or so as these guys declare but if we don't have any huge surprises uh where someone goes back to school um or something like that then this draft has a chance to be i think really loaded uh death wise and at the top, I really like, I mean, I think we only have one, you know, quote unquote elite guy. I mean, Chase Young from Ohio state,

I think is kind of on a tier by himself, but I think that there's a lot of quality players in the top half around one and, you know, total first round grades and things like that. And at key positions, offensive tackle, corner, I think wide receiver is going to be a position that's well-represented in the first round. So I think this draft has the potential to be a really talented group that may be more so than last year.

Yeah, I'm very excited about this 2020 draft class because it's going to be in Las Vegas in April. I hope to be there, too, covering it for the Locked On podcast. But if not, I think this draft is going to be super fun up top, like you mentioned, throughout the draft. But I want to talk to you, Dane, today just about the Colts overall. When you're looking at this team from a draft perspective, it's been a disappointing year so far for the Colts,

especially after a 5-2 start, now 6-6. Could be like an 8-8, 7-9 team. When you look at this Colts team, you actually had CeeDee Lamb of the Oklahoma Sooners go into the Colts in your latest mock draft, which I love from the Colts' perspective. But what needs, when you look at that Colts team, are the biggest for them? I think it starts at quarterback. Jacoby Preset is a nice player, but I think that the Colts will be looking for an upgrade if they want to

get where they want to go. Um, and do they see that quarterback in this class? I don't know. Um, I think it's possible. Um, we'll have to see what does Jordan love do a Utah state? What does Jacob Beeson do at Washington? Um, cause you know, the Colts just say they end up picking somewhere between 15 and 20. Um, you know, hefty package of picks to go up and get that quarterback if they want to get into the top five or top ten, which is probably not realistic for them, just knowing how Chris Ballard views things. So I think that they're going to have to take a long look at quarterback.

I know Chris Ballard has. He spent extensive time looking at Jordan Love this year, and Love is maybe one of the few guys that the NFL loves a lot more than the public seems to just because I know the stats aren't great, has not had a great year, but the context, the context matters in terms of you know, what he's been asked to do this year, a brand new coaching staff, one of his offensive linemen returning. That was the only returning starter on that offense this year,

aside from love. So, you know, all that, all things considered and you just look at the tools, teams are going to bet on those tools every time. And so Jordan loves if he declares, he still has a very good chance to go in the first round. Then I think the Colts would make some sense. I think they need to get better on the defensive line. I pleasantly surprised with kind of the contributions from their rookies in

the, in the secondary, you know, Willis at safety, you know, even Marvell tell I thought has done well. And then of course, Rocky has sinned so i don't know how much secondary um becomes a need for them but i think definitely in the front seven um you can never have too many pass rushers they need some help on the defensive line um and then i think they need a playmaker on offense um you know whether that's a guy like cd lamb uh who could play on the outside, can help you out inside, whatever you need, can maybe be that playmaker you're looking for.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought those three positions, Dan, because those are actually the three I wanted to hit on with you today, which is quarterback, wide receiver, and defensive tackle. And the first one you brought there, Jordan Love, really when we heard about Chris Bauer scouting him extensively, and we heard he was at the Boise State-Utah State game, a lot of Colts fans were – their ears perked up a little because that's the first time I've heard a quarterback

really extensively linked to the Colts. It's been like that really all throughout the season with them. What's your thoughts on Jordan Love, Dane? Because it seems like if you just look at the box score, it doesn't tell the whole story at all because you see the talent pop off the screen with Jordan Love. How would you evaluate a prospect like Jordan Love, especially with the circumstances he's under this year?

It is tough because, again, the physical traits are there. I mean, he is a very athletic, good sized player with a loose arm, a very easy release. And it looks like he's throwing a nerf ball with how easy it comes out of his hand, how effortless his motion is, very quick feet. And he's a tough kid. So there's plenty to like right there when you talk about some of the physical attributes that he offers. Now, him being a consistent passer, coming down, talking about mechanics, talking about placement, that is something where it's a work in progress. And he shows signs of it. He is actually a beautiful touch thrower down the field,

but he does get a little stubborn with his reads, locking onto his preferred target. And that kind of screws up the timing of the play. There are times where, especially on outbreaking routes, he'll either sail it or throw it low. So, I mean, there are areas of his game where he needs to improve and get better, but a lot of it I think is fixable as long as you feel comfortable with him after you meet with him. And so if he declares, I think Jordan Love will be drafted based off of how he interviews, basically.

So teams are trying to figure out the person, where he is mentally in his development, because he has special arm talent. He's a good-sized athlete. The toughness is there. There's a lot of boxes that he's going to check, but it's an intangible position. And so leadership-wise, you know, what's his football acumen? You know, is he a guy you can see coming in, developing for a year, and then being your leader?

That's something that teams are going to have to try and figure out between now and draft day. And I think if they get the right answers, Jordan Love is going to have to try and figure out between now and draft day. And I think if they get the right answers, Jordan Love is going to be a first round pick. Yeah, it's really interesting, Dan, because I've seen reports just about if Love's going to go to the draft, he's going to transfer. What have you heard so far on that? If there's anything that we've heard recently about Jordan Love, is he going to be a prospect who goes out right now? Or do you think he's maybe a candidate to transfer, let's say, a Texas tech to reunite with his offense coordinator oklahoma uh at texas tech right

he uh he's i'm in towards 50 50 you know and i i believe it um just because it sounds like he's putting a lot of thought into this like he's not making a he didn't come into this year thinking yeah i'm gonna be going pro after this year i mean he's he's keeping an open mind to it um now would he i don't would he transfer i think he set to graduate in january so that is important or december so that is important because you know he would be eligible for the senior bowl which would be huge uh you know it'd be a key part of his evaluation but he could also transfer if he wanted to um No, I don't, I don't know if he would or not. There's, you know, I've talked to scouts who believe that he will. I've talked to scouts that think that there's no way he would. That's just not the person that he is. He's, you know, he's not going to, you know, even though it's not the

coaching staff that he committed to, you know, he's just not the type of guy that he is. He wants to finish it out at a school. So I really don't know. I'm waiting like everybody else to find out. And I've done my evaluation on him, and I feel pretty good about where I am right now. But we're missing a key piece, and I think that's something we'll figure out if he does declare and hopefully he accepts a Senior Bowl invitation

because I think that would be a great launching pad for him. Josh Allen did the same thing. Came out as a redshirt junior, was eligible for the senior bowl, and what he did in Mobile helped him go top 10 overall. Continuing on the quarterback trend here for a second game, Justin Herber, I think, might not be a quarterback in the Colts range, but if his stock does slip a little bit, it could be possible there. He's been a really tough evaluation for me because when I turned on the Washington game, for example, the Arizona State game, I saw some really bad flaws. When you turn on the Arizona game, you see some really eye-popping talent

from Herbert. How do you grade Justin Herbert compared to the rest of this class? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good way to put it because he is a frustrating player because you see the physical traits. They're obvious. You know, he's 6'5", 240, and he's a frustrating player because there you see the physical traits they're obvious um you know he's 6'5 240 and he's a remarkable athlete the arm talent's awesome um and he's a great person like high character um you know there's you're not going to worry about him away from um you know the football facility you know he's going to put the work in he's a 4.0 student and just a very

intelligent person but he's not an alpha. And that's going to be a problem for some teams. My biggest issue is even though he is a very smart person, his decision making is flawed, especially when he's pressured and he's moved from a spot and he has to improvise a little bit. He gets frazzled. And a lot of times that leads to the wrong decision. A lot of times that leads to just a head scratching throw. And so, you know, Herbert, there's a lot to like, but there's just seemed to be something missing from

the evaluation. And there might be a team in the top 10 that says, you know, I will bet on all the traits that he offers. We'll be able to coach up the rest, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he falls out of top 10 and, you know, maybe the Colts become more interested but maybe the Colts are going to be skeptical for the same reasons that you know we just mentioned so uh he is a very interesting evaluation and for a lot of reasons just like Jordan Love I think that the pre-draft process will tell us a lot more because how he how he does in interviews and how he interacts with teams that's going to be a big step of the process for him. Next one on the list here for you, Dane, Jacob Eason, who actually watched a few

games of yesterday myself. Obviously, the arm talent popped off when you watched the film, but his decision making is a little bit frustrating at times. How would you grade Eason on this draft class? Because I feel like he could be an option, maybe not even around one, maybe that Redskins pick for the Colts if they feel like maybe he could be a guy who could tap into some talent there. Yeah. Or, you know, even a guy you trade up for five spots or something, you know, to get that fifth year option, something like that. I think that makes sense. He's, he's a tall, sturdy, strong arm passer. I mean, you, like you said, it's the velocity, the arm power is elite. You know, it's Matthew Stafford-like. But he's kind of like a bigger Matthew Stafford.

He has the arm talent that just really flashes, but he is a little bit of a slow-footed athlete. And he's not a bad athlete, but he's just not the most fleet of foot. And when he's pressured and he's forced to move from a spot, that's something that is a struggle for him. And so I do question, you know, if he's ready. I think a lot of people are telling him to go back to school and so we'll have to see what he does.

I think that, you know, he can get better with his instincts in the pocket and with his decision-making. Because I think a lot of that is experience-based. I mean, this is a player who played as a true freshman at Georgia and then didn't play the last two years. He got hurt first, second game in 2017, and then sat out all of last year, 2018. And then this year he's back on the field.

But you could tell he's just not ready yet. And so he needs to do what's best for him. But I think that he should strongly consider going back to school where he can get better and improve as a quarterback because he'll be better off long term. And so I think that would be the best option for him. But if he does declare a decent shot of going in the first round because of the strengths that he offers and a team believing that with more experience, he'll get better in some of those areas where he's deficient. The final quarterback I had for you, Dan, on this list is one that a lot of Colts fans seem intrigued by,

especially with the latest rush of athletic quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson. You threw in Patrick Holmes in that mix. He's definitely not on this level, I don't think, but Jalen Hurts has caught some eyes from some people. One, do you think Jalen Hurts is an NFL starting caliber quarterback? And two, where would you rank him amongst this class and what kind of round projection would you give him um i i feel like this is a cop out um but and i've said this with all the other quarterbacks but so much of this is of this quarterback is going to the quarterback discussion is going to be decisions are going to be made during the pre-draft process because Jalen Hurts it's it's just tough in that Oklahoma offense and to because there are a lot of things

that really worry me about him as the next level he tends to hold the ball way too long he will telegraph his throws throwing late and just giving defenders a chance to make a play he does not anticipate very well I have some strong concerns with Jalen Hurts at the next level. I think right now he's more of a third- or fourth-round guy, and I think he has a chance to get into, say, the second- or third-round conversation, just squarely a day-two player if he impresses at the senior bowl in the combine, but outside of that Lincoln-Riley offense. but if he doesn't answer some of those

questions that I just that I just mentioned then I think he's more the fourth or fifth round discussion you know I don't think that he is this slam dunk top 100 player that a lot of people have said that he is just because I have there's a lot of concerns about him as a passer so how he does during the process remove from that Lincoln Riley scheme and you a passer. So how he does during the process, remove from that Lincoln Riley scheme and just kind of how he develops as a passer during the senior bowl, during workouts, that's going to be a big part of the equation for Jalen Hurst. We know about the intangibles. The guy is a competitor. He's very businesslike. I mean, he's a good athlete, not a great athlete, not Lamar Jackson-like, but a pretty good athlete

where he's going to extend plays. There's a lot of things working for him, but there's also some things, notably as a passer, that really worry about you, worry me, I should say, at the next level in his NFL evaluation. Before we go on to our next segment here with Dane Brugger, diving in on all the 2020 W wide receivers that could be in consideration for the Annapolis Colts on day two, or even day one.

I want to tell you guys, if you haven't already subscribed to Locked On Colts, the only daily Colts podcast out there. If you haven't already, you really missed a gallon, some great content. We have Zach Hicks, Stampede Blue. We have George Bremmer, the Harold Bolton, Kevin Bowen of 107.5 and 1070 The Fan. And we also have jakearthurcololtz.com and also some other special guests all throughout the season.

So if you haven't already, go and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to to Locked on Colts. Moving on to the White Outs here, Dana, as we close the show here in the last 10, 15 minutes, I wanted to ask you a philosophical question about the White Outs before we dive into some prospects here.

Do you feel like today's NFL is maybe more based on team need where do you go more size when you see a guy like Tee go more size when you see a guy like Tee Higgins you see a guy maybe Chase Cleeple on day two or do you maybe load up on speed like Kansas City did with all Sammy Watkins Tyree killed you go in the Henry Ruggs direction what do you value more in wideouts nowadays I value I mean I think we can overthink it sometimes the wide receiver position is about two things can you get get open? Can you catch the football? That's all I care about. Now, if you do that because of your size, great. If you

do it because of your speed, that's also great. So, you know, a guy like T Higgins, um, you know, not the, not a speedster by any means, but his ability to expand his catch radius and, uh, the reflexes, the hand eye coordination, it's just remarkable. And that's going to be a valuable skill at the next level when you don't have to be pinpoint with your throws to him. You just throw it up there and let him climb the ladder, and more times than not, he'll make a play over the defensive back. And that is absolutely a skill that will translate to the next level. Now you're talking about Henry Ruggs, who's going to run in the 4-3s at worst,

maybe even higher, and has the competitive makeup that you want. He's developed nicely as a route runner, as a pass catcher. You know, he just, he works in a different way. And he has a little more juice after the catch, but he's not going to be as good in contested situations. So I really think it's all about what you're looking for and what you value. Because again, it just comes down to to can you get open and can you uh catch the football finish catches um and different wide receivers do that in different ways uh and so

i think this wide receiver class i don't think we're going to have a clear-cut consensus number one wide out um there's just so many different types of receivers that are going to interest teams depending on what they need inside outside um, um, you know, size, speed, uh, route runners, or, you know, guys that, uh, finish in traffic, then just so many different things you look for the position and different opinions vary throughout the league. So it's going to be interesting to see the order of these receivers, how many go in the first round? Um, how many do any go in the top 10? I don't think it's, uh, you know, by any means is a lock that we see one or a few of these guys go that early. So it's going to be interesting to see how it

plays out. I have about four guys I wanted to talk to you about Dane, because I feel like all these four of these guys could be in that Redskins pick range, that early second round range. I feel like there's could be a lot of wideouts that go very early on in day two. I as well could count day one as well, but I think the most intriguing one on the list, he might go round one here, LaVisca Chennault. He's really a physical freak when you watch him on film. Where would you grade Chennault amongst the elites

of the 2020 wide receiver class? He was actually my number one receiver coming into the year. Wide receiver one, top 10 pick. What he did last year was just remarkable as a playmaker. Anytime the ball's in his hands, he has just these ridiculous instincts. And then he has the body power where he's going to break a tackle. It's just, it's very hard for single defenders to get him down. A lot of times it takes help. But with Chenault, because he does break tackles, because he does have that power, that's more hits that he's taken on his body.

And we've seen it the last two years where durability has been an issue. Missing three games last year, missed a game this year. It's been a shoulder. It's been a turf toe. It's been a core muscle injury. There's been a lot of issues with him. Now, he's also not a very detailed outrunner at this point. And that's not a surprise considering, I mean, he was a running back growing up, didn't

really focus on receiver until high school, didn't play varsity until his junior year. So a little bit of a late bloomer, and he's still learning the ins and outs of the receiver position. But I just come back to how physically impressive he is as an athlete. And he's not a burner. He's not going to run in the four threes. I mean, he could be a 4-4-9 guy. He might be a 4-5-5 guy. You know, I think it'll be interesting to see what his 40-yard dash

ultimately is. But just talking about his athletic twitch, his acceleration, he's just – he is a big-time performer anytime the ball is in his hands. And so he needs to grow as a route runner. Injury history is a concern. But just the versatile package of size, acceleration, instincts, that's what makes him a playmaker. That's why I think there's a very good chance he ends up somewhere in the first round.

I think another intriguing name on this list here, Dana, one I'm really growing fond of, the more I watch film of him, Brandon Ayuk of Arizona State. I feel like he's really flying under the radar right now. Where would you grade Iyuk? Because I feel like personally, I think he might be a better overall wide out than Nikhil Harry was for the Sun Devils last year. Oh, he is. I mean, I think he is, no question. And Iyuk was a guy that I actually, I profiled back in October and I had a quote in there from a scout that said, he's going to have higher grades across the league than Harry from some scouts, and I'm one of them.

So that kind of turned some heads, I know, by some people. But he was one of those players where he did not make my first-round mock draft, and I hated leaving him out because I think he has a lot of the talent to go in the first round. It's all about his speed. And this is another guy who's a little bit of a late bloomer because he was primarily a corner in high school, goes to JUCO level, and his grades were bad, had to go two years at JUCO.

And he switched over to offense, played a little defense, but mainly offense. And then coming out as a JUCO recruit, he received, you know, looks and offers from Alabama, some other big schools, but he stayed committed to Arizona State. And last year, took a little bit to get used to the offense and FBS play, and he was in the shadow of Harry. But this year, he's absolutely blown up. He's over a thousand yards. He's a yak monster. He's what I call a runway receiver. You give him any little bit of a runway and he's going to be able to create. So those slants,

those posts, just give a little bit of a runway and his speed eliminates pursuit angles, makes it so tough on those DBs to stick with them. But then he also has the vertical speed that he can take the top off of defense and track the football deep and make plays. So in some ways, he reminds me of, say, like an Emmanuel Sanders because he's not the biggest guy size-wise. But as an athlete, as just a dynamic playmaker, he's a guy that's really intriguing. So I think Aiyuk, if he falls to the second round,

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got all the attention there but what's your thoughts on Devante Smith yeah I mean I what I say earlier about receivers I mean the two most important things get open catch the football Devante Smith he can beat press and create his own separation. Just ask Derek Stingley in that LSU game. And then he has all those receivers on the Alabama roster. Devontae Smith has the best ball skills out of all of them. So, yes, he's 180 pounds soaking wet. At the most, he'll be 180 pounds. Doesn't have the size that you're looking for necessarily.

But when you can do those two things that well, you know, getting open and catching the football, I just have a tough time, you know, cause I coming into the year, I didn't, I liked him, but I didn't view him as a first round pick. And then as a season went on and on and on, I just, why, why not? You know, why would you not consider this guy in the first round? So I think he absolutely will be towards the end of the first round. And then if not, again, like IU,

he'll be tremendous value on day two because of you know, the quickness that he offers as a receiver and of the first round. And then if not, again, like Ayuk, he'll be tremendous value on day two because of the quickness that he offers as a receiver and then the ball skills. I think he does those two things extremely well, and I think that's going to carry him pretty far. The final wideout process I want to hit on with you, Dan, before I close out the show with you, Jalen Rieger of TCU. This goes to show you this is the eighth wide receiver on my board currently,

just how deep this 2020 wide receiver class is. I feel like Rieger could be a guy if he does hit, he could be tremendous value on day two for someone. No doubt. And another player I hated leaving off my first round mock because he's going to run in the four threes. You know, he's got NFL bloodlines talking to, you know, people close to TCU program. They say he's very buttoned up, professional-like. I think he'll fit in the NFL.

He's not going into a situation that he's uncomfortable with or unfamiliar with. He's shifty in space. He's explosive. Does a great job attacking the football. And I do worry a little bit about the ball skills. He's not the biggest guy, and he does have his share of drops. Needs to do a better job protecting the football at the catch point. And then as a ball carrier, but, um, so I think the,

the average ball skills and the lack of size could be one of those things that squeezes him out of the first round, but he has first round talent. And so, uh, you know, another guy, like we, we kind of talked about being tremendous value on day day two if that's how it works out. Final question for you, Dan, before I let you go. I feel like this Colts team, like you mentioned at the top of the show, Jacoby Brissett, I just feel like the ceiling isn't there with Jacoby. He's a serviceable quarterback, but I feel like you need an upside

at that position. You need a top-ten quarterback, especially with Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson all starting in bloom right now. Would you – would it be fair to say that the two positions you're talking about today, quarterback and wide receiver are going to be the two biggest needs for this Colts team? Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, and it just,

quarterback is tough because you don't force it, but it's obviously a position that you, you have to address at some point. And, you know, if you, if you want to take your team to that next level and you just have to, you have to address at some point and you know if you if you want to take your your team to that next level and you just have to uh you have to buy in you have to believe and you have to be sold on a quarterback and not everybody there might be you know three teams sold on one quarterback and the other uh you know 29 aren't sold on that quarterback so it's just it's a very personal thing with these quarterbacks and so it's tough to project especially this early um but i this quarterback class has a chance to be a pretty good one if the if you're

in love of east and declare um two is a complete wild card because the hip uh and you know even jake from i think jake from um in that offense i could do some things now i think he his ceiling would be limited as well but it could have a higher ceiling than Brissette possibly. So in that offense, with what they're doing, I think Jake Fromm could be an option in the late one, early two range. So this is really going to be an interesting quarterback class. Dane, appreciate the time as always. I know you're a busy man, especially during this time of year.

Bulls, he's about to kick off. Scouting is in full gear. You can follow Dane on Twitter, at DPBurglar. Also, read his work and subscribe with over the F like you found right. Dane, appreciate the time as always. Anytime, Evan. Thanks.