Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 2/13/20: How the Colts should attack 2020 with Bleacher Report's Connor Rogers

Episode Date: February 13, 2020

On today's episode, Connor Rogers of Bleacher Report stops by for a fun discussion on your Indianapolis Colts. Ranging from Jacoby Brissett's future to how free agency and the draft should be explored by GM Chris Ballard, Rogers helps cover all the bases.What does he believe Indianapolis should do this offseason? Back up the Brinks truck for Yannick Ngakoue? Go all-in or not on 2020 quarterback prospects? All of that, plus so much more, so don't miss out on this one!Stay tuned for more awesome guests coming throughout as we go full speed ahead towards the most important Colts offseason in recent memory. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back into your latest episode of Locked On Colts, probably Locked On Podcast Network. Today's audience is Evan Sutter. I'm joined by our guest on the show today, Connor Rogers of Stick to Football. You also know him from Bleacher Report. He was the voice of Sean Payton as well on Gridiron Heights as well. So you probably know him from a lot of places around Bleacher Report. Connor Rogers, we had you on last year too, so it's really great to have you back on, man. Yeah, Evan. Thanks for having me on, man. It's always good to catch up with you this time of year as we get into pre-free agency and, of course, the NFL draft. Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely one of the busiest times of the year, so I appreciate you coming on during this time.

Connor, let's kick things off, take it back in the time machine for a little bit. Andrew Luck retiring all of a sudden this year. Connor, I want to get your thoughts on that because I feel like this 2019-20 season would have gone really different if Andrew Luck would have been around. And let me ask you, where were you at this point? Because I feel like this 2019-20 season would have gone really different if Andrew Luck would have been around. And let me ask you, where were you at this point? Because I feel like the Andrew Luck retirement is going to be like, where were you at that point when Luck announced his retirement when you still had a tweet from Adam Schefter?

I was actually on my way out of Vegas, ironically. I was there for work for a very long trip. We have a partnership with Caesars, so I was doing a lot of college football and NFL preview content from the a partnership with Caesars. So I was doing a lot of college football and NFL preview content from the sports book and Caesars. And I'd been there for eight days. And I know we stayed for a week, zero college football. And I was on my way to the airport when that news dropped. And it was, it was kind of madness. Honestly, it really was. It was just so shocking.

Obviously seeing the scenes of him being on the field, being escorted out, the fans going nuts, and obviously the timing was not great. And it was something we got to talk about with Marlon Mack when we were down in Miami for the Super Bowl. We had Marlon on stick to football, and he was telling us he was on the sideline, and he found out from the fans because they don't have their phones on the sidelines. And he was like it was this surreal moment where, just like everyone else, we're finding out from people and just trying to confirm if it was true.

So definitely one of the more bizarre NFL moments and shocking, I think is the better word, shocking NFL moments we've had in quite some time. But I think when all is said and done, the Colts actually weathered that catastrophe much better than most teams would. Yeah, they went 7-9 this year. They started off 5-2, had a really bad second half of the season. Jacoby Brissett, Connor, what do you think about him as a quarterback in this league? Because obviously the first month of the season,

he did really well for himself, but the last probably two and a half months did not go so well. If you're in Chris Bauer's shoes, Connor, do you feel comfortable with Jacoby Bursas, your long-term quarterback, or do you look exhausting on your options off to him? I don't think he's the long-term option. I think Jacoby, for a third-round pick, has done a really nice job developing into this. I don't even almost want to call him a spot starter because he's been even a little better than that when you look at it.

He's just very conservative with the football at times. I think for what the Colts have, they had a really good offensive line this year. They don't have the most weapons at wide receiver. It's an area that they need to add to. They didn't get much from Paris Campbell this year, which is disappointing. But they have a good rushing attack. So I think for Jacoby, he's a guy that in a perfect world is your ideal backup. Now, they're not paying him as that this year. He's on the books for about $21.5 million,

and I believe they'll keep him at that number, which is fine. It gives you a bridge option. Jacoby is kind of the classic bridge option quarterback. He's the guy that you feel okay starting. He's really going to hold the fort for whoever you have as the future guy. But I don't know if you sit there comfortable saying, hey, he's our guy of the next 10 years that can win us a lot of games at a high level. I'm not really there with him yet. I think Colts fans are there as well. I know some Colts fans really have soured on him, but I think all things considered, he's done a good job. It's tough to be in that spot. You never want to be the guy after the guy. So I think for the Colts, they've put themselves in a nice position here

where they can take a developmental guy like a Jordan Love and sit him behind Jacoby Brissett for the year, or they don't have to panic, which is often what I allude to. They don't have to panic here, and they can worry about their quarterback after this season. Now, I know that won't excite Colts fans, but when you look at how the Texans and Titans are built, I don't know if the expectations yet are for the Colts to take over this division. It feels like now they need another year of building. Once again, we'll see what happens with some of the pieces on the offense. But overall, I think the way bad decisions are made are panicked and rushed situations.

And I think Chris Ballard and Ed Dodds are smart enough guys to avoid that at their quarterback position this year. Yeah, looking at a rumor I saw, it's really getting seen the last couple weeks, Connor, about Phillip Rivers' possibility of the Colts. I know Daniel Jeremiah mentioned it and Ian Rapoport mentioned it as well. What's your thoughts on that possibility for this Colts? Because obviously, Jacober's set, like you mentioned, is a bridge quarterback. But if you go get Phillip Rivers, a 30-year-old quarterback, over Jacoby Bursette, that means that you're completely out on a guy like Jacoby.

So what do you think about the possibility of adding a guy like Phillip Rivers? Because I feel like that's really against the philosophy Chris Dard went against. But what's your thoughts on that kind of thinking? Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I mean, if they go out and get a guy like Rivers, then they look at their roster right now, after free agency and one more draft, there's a win now roster. That's what that tells me. I mean, because, and first off, here's another thing that a lot of people aren't talking about. Phillip Rivers was not very good last year,

especially down the stretch. I don't know if the gap between him and Brissette, unless there was an underlying injury there with Rivers, is that colossal where Rivers is taking the team over from 7-9 with a couple extra players and moving the needle to an 11-win team. I'm not really sure that's the case. And I'm with you. As much as I know about Chris Ballard, a GM that I've studied for a long time because I was excited about this hire, and Ed Dodds, one of the better scouts in the league, It doesn't really seem like a move from them. So it's kind of interesting to me personally.

I think it's one that also if that happens, I mean, like I said, you have Jacoby on the books for over 20 million. Phillip Rivers is not going to play for less than 25 million, I would imagine. Are you really going to sit here with a cap charge of quarterbacks of $50 million? That's not really a good way to allocate your money. This is a team with an enormous amount of cap space. I think after maybe some trimming of the roster, they could be sitting at over $90 million, which is unbelievable considering they are actually paying a quarterback. Not the biggest contract, but they're still paying him decent money. So could they do it? Yes. But does it make sense? No. And if they really feel that strongly about a bounce back year from Rivers,

then you probably are going to look to trade Jacoby Brissett to a desperate team. And with how many quarterbacks are on the market this year, I don't really currently see a desperate team. The only one that would be, and now I'm really, really connecting dots and layers here, is if Tom Brady shocked New England and left, they might be interested in bringing Jacoby back because Belichick was a big fan of his. But when all is said and done, I don't think Phil Rivers will be an Indy, but crazier things have happened. Yeah, definitely be a crazy offseason for the quarterbacks, of course. But before we dive into the draft here for a second, Connor, I wanted to ask you, if you were in Chris Ballard's shoes,

I know you mentioned close to $90 million in cast space this offseason. What would you go about using that with? I know Anthony Costanza still has a decision to make on retiring or not, left tackle. So if he does return some of that money, we'll go to Costanza. But are you back at the brink strip where you have Chris Jones, Yonkin Gokwe, Jadavion Clowney? What do you think the Colts should do, or what would you do in Ballard's shoes?

Well, I think you make a great point about Costanzo because I thought this was his best year yet. And then you hear rumblings that he could retire. The good news for Colts fans is it seems like he's made it clear that if he doesn't retire, he'll only go back to Indy. And yes, he'll make a lot of money. He's earned that money. So they still have a ridiculous amount of money to play with, even if they bring Costanzo back for what would be estimated probably around $15 million a year or something along those lines. The tackle market moves so fast each year, it's hard to keep up with. But that's just a really rough estimate. I think you make a great point about the pass rusher situation. This is a team

that they've tried to address it in the past. but when you look at it, they've just missed a little bit. Now, Justin Houston, I like that signing. He still had 11 sacks last year. I'm not sure. I don't have the pulse of Colts fans and how they feel about him, but I'm sure Justin Houston, they feel pretty happy with that one, but you still need another guy. And with Houston, there's always injury questions with him. It's been the case since the Chiefs. It carried over a little bit to Indy, of course. But he's still a really, really good player. I would look at Yannick Ngakwe. But the problem is Jacksonville is going to franchise tag him.

And there is no way they're interested in moving him to a division rival like the Colts. So that would be the ideal one if he hit the market. I would come out at the first hour of free agency and give him a ridiculous amount of money if I was the Colts and make him your franchise pass rusher of the next six years because he's such a young, valuable player. Now, once again, you got to be realistic here. Chris Jones is someone that I think is a really, really good player. He's going to ask for an absurd amount of money. I mean, I'm talking absurd amount of money. So, and once again, the Colts have it.

So I don't mind going out and being aggressive and getting an impact player for the defense. So if they feel Chris Jones is that guy, then go out and do it. I would feel better about an edge pass rusher. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Shaq Barrett in Tampa. You know, I think this team has done a really nice job on the interior of their offensive line. God forbid they do lose Costanzo. I've been saying they have the ammo to move from 14 up into the top 10 and get a

franchise offensive tackle. That's just because they've done such a good job executing trades over the years. They have that high second rounder from Washington. I'm not saying you move that. I'm just saying you could move other picks to move up from 14 a couple spots over the Jets and Browns that really need offensive linemen. So there's a lot of different things this team can do. And, you know, with free agency, you also have a question. I mean, I feel like there are some questions at the cornerback position where James Bradbury will hit the market from Carolina.

He's a really good outside corner. So if they want to add to the secondary, they can do that. They've left themselves with so much flexibility. And I would honestly look to sign a receiver and draft a wide receiver. So T.Y. Hilton is somebody that he struggled to stay healthy before, but he's a great, great player. Maybe they feel like they want more speed in this offense, and they can go out and get a guy like Robbie Anderson, who's going to hit free agency. That would be really interesting to me. This draft is loaded with wide receivers. I think they're actually in a sweet spot with that Washington second rounder to get the best guy that falls out of round one. Once again, you can

even use a round three pick. That's how good this group is. The Colts, everything's on the table for them right now. I just want to see them be aggressive. I know Colts fans agree with that. round three pick on that's how good this group is so the colts i mean everything's on the table for them right now with how much i just want to see them be aggressive and i know colts fans agree with that i don't i really don't blame them for being frustrated i think ballard and dobbs are very calculated but you don't want to just sit on all this money forever you want to build a really really good team and even if you feel like jacoby's going to be the guy this year and that limits your ceiling you're building a foundation for your eventual rookie quarterback of the future. Yeah, this is definitely one of the most important offices I can remember for the Colts.

I know they've had Andrew Luck and Peyton Ant quarterbacks. They really don't have to worry about much. But now without that quarterback being secured, it's going to be, I think, a really big offseason for this team. But let's dive into some draft talk here, Connor, for a second. Diving back into the time machine, I know 2020 versus 2019, I know that was this time last year, but maybe it's recently biased on my part, but the more I look at the 2020 class, Connor, especially at wide receiver, especially at left tackle, I feel like this 2020

class is not only better, but deeper too. What do you think about that thought? Yeah, it definitely is. I mean, you have a bunch of first round players in it that are the star-studded group of the bunch. And that's going to be, you know, Jerry Judy, C.D. Lamb, Henry Ruggs, T. Higgins, Justin Jefferson, LaVisca Chennault. Those guys are in a really great category of player, and especially Judy at the top and Lamb at the top. Ruggs not far from either of them. And then a little drop-off. You know, that's a really, really good group.

But then you get into the projected day two, and some of those guys on the back end that I mentioned for round one could fall into day two. But you look at K.J. Hamler from Penn State, speedster. Jalen Rieger from TCU, speedster. Donovan Peoples-Jones, incredible size and ability to jump out of the gym. You have Van Jefferson from Florida, who's such a good route runner and possession guy.

Colin Johnson from Texas, who has an incredible catch radius. He's about 6'5", 6'6". So the list really goes on and on of how good this group is at wide receiver. It's a deep group. There's a lot of talent that could step on the field right away and make an impact. And I think that's good news for the Colts. So I really like this class. I think I think this class rounds one to three at wide receiver is just overwhelmingly loaded with talent where we're going to see some

guys actually fall down the board. That's how good it is. I mean, even have guys like Lynn Bowden, who had to play quarterback for Kentucky this year but he's a really capable wide receiver Chase Claypool big body from Notre Dame that can play special teams for you you know Jeff Thomas from Miami is one of those projected sixth seventh round guys that are UDFA because of off field but there was a time where Jeff Thomas was viewed as a top three round talent easily so and that's not even getting into guys like Brian Edwards, Juwan Johnson, you know, I mean, this list is just so long of every single kind of pass catcher. And I think we're going to see so many teams capitalize off of that to upgrade their wide receiver room. Yeah. Speaking of Jerry, Judy, and CD, I think the consensus top two receivers,

Connor, are those two special enough to the point if you're a GM and you're picking, let's say at 13 for the Colts and you need a receiver or CD and Jerry, Judy special enough to the point, if you're a GM and you're picking, let's say, at 13 for the Colts and you need a receiver, are CeeDee and Jerry Judy special enough where you can say, we have to take one of these two guys, or hey, let's just wait until 34 or 45? I think it depends how the board falls. You look at it, you know, the Colts are in an interesting spot because you're sitting there at 13 and you look at it, it seems like the top four offensive tackles will be gone, you know, and then you look at it from there

and you see how the quarterbacks fall. A lot of them will be gone. Maybe even the top four will be gone. Now, I don't think you need to reach on a guy like Jacob Eason there, especially at 13. So they could use a number one wide receiver. And if Jerry Judy falls that far or C.D. Lamb falls that far, I would take them.

I really would. I don't think you need to press. Now, cults it's interesting to me how are they going to value the edge class and free agency if they sit on their hands and don't sign anyone then you start getting into the caleb on chase on aj at panessa etor gross mottos range of edge rushers at 13 now i would probably stay away from that personally i don't think the value is there in those picks, and that's why I would side with taking someone like CeeDee or Jerry Judy or Ruggs because I do think there's a gigantic gap. I mean, they're pretty elite-level wide receiver prospects compared to very good wide receiver-level prospects.

Moving on to the quarterbacks here, Connor, I'd probably put you on the spot here for a second. You had to bet on this quarterback class for 2020. I know probably Joe Burrow is one of the answers here, but who would you bet on as this guy's a for sure surefire franchise quarterback in this class it's two it's not even close i mean of course you got the health caveat there but when you look at two uh he's phenomenal uh he's every bit as talented as joe burrow i think if he was healthy all year we'd be having a conversation about who the number one pick would be that's how how good Tua is.

So when you look at it, you know, Herbert and Love, they have a lot of traits. I'm skeptical on both of them. I would like to see Love get a chance to develop because I actually really, really like his ability. And then, of course, Eason has a huge arm. But it's Joe Burrow and Tua Tungabailoa. They're in their own class, their own tier of quarterbacks in this group. Yeah, speaking of Jordan Love and Justin Herbert, I'm glad you brought that up, Connor,

because a lot of Colts fans are, of course, intrigued by them, especially Jordan Love. I put out a poll on my Twitter account, and far and away the Colts fans want Jordan Love. But really, guys like Javon Kinlaw and Derek Brown, which really caught me off guard. I was like, whoa, everyone's really all in on Jordan Love. What's your thoughts on Jordan Love, Connor?

Because I feel like Indianapolis is one of the rare situations for a guy like Jordan Love where if he does sit for a year or two with Frank Reich and really soaks all that information, it could be a home run hit for them. Yeah, I think he's a round two quarterback on the grade scale, and those guys go in round one. It happens every year. He's got a big arm. He moves really well.

I thought he threw pretty well in the red zone at the senior bowl when I got up close and personal and really, really liked what he had there. Once again, it's decision-making and it was not good this year. And he would be an outlier if he succeeded because not a lot of guys come into, you know, the NFL with that kind of turnover ratio, touchdown turnover ratio. Now you look on film, he had no help. He had horrible skill players. The offense changed when Matt Wells left. So I think when you look at it, there are excuses for him.

It's kind of like Josh Allen at Wyoming. And I think Josh is going through some growing pains in the NFL right now. But, you know, there's a reason why you give these guys time to develop. So I like Jordan Love. I'm just not betting my job on Jordan Love. If the Colts sat there at 13, you know, I talked about earlier, they have the ammo to move up and get a franchise tackle. I hope they don't move up for a guy like Jordan Love because I think that there's always

risk and you have to take swings. We have to take calculated swings. And I think he's a really, really big risk. Like I said, when we were talking about Jordan Love on Stick to Football for a while as a round two quarterback, I was excited about him because I felt like Drew Locke last year, he's somebody that you take in round two, early round two, and you develop and the expectations aren't through the roof. But, you know, the problem is every time Jacoby Brissett doesn't play well, fans understandably are going to be calling for Jordan Love, and I don't think he's ready to play next year. But Jacoby proves me wrong because he has all the talent in the world to succeed. It just needs to be put together on the field,

and unfortunately that wasn't the case this year. I thought 2018 was a nice year for him, but once again, I look at the 2022 quarterback, 2021 quarterback class with the Colts, with Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, you know, you look at it like that and you say, do we have to rush and panic? And I know Colts fans don't, you know, most Colts fans have never lived a life without having a great quarterback. You go from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck. So I understand why there's no patience there. You know, and I can speak from existence. I grew up a Jets fan. I never knew what it was like to have a good quarterback. So maybe I'm too patient in terms of how I wait and pick and choose spots. But I just think the Colts are in a spot where they don't have to panic. If Love falls to 13,

I have no problem with that pick. You give the guy a shot to develop, but I don't think they need to go up and get him. Yeah, that's a good point of brand there because obviously Love had a really difficult year with turnovers, and that could easily dwindle his stock down a little bit, so it's going to be interesting to see what happens with him, but Justin Herbert, the other quarterback there, Connor, what do you think about

his upside in this league? Because I know following you listening to your podcast or with Matt Miller and Mello, it seems like you guys sometimes are either really impressed by Herbert some games or also just really not impressed by Herbert some games. I mean, he's so inconsistent sometimes where it's maddening to me, at least when I watch him. What do you think about Herbert, his potential?

If he does land, let's say, with the Colts, do you think that's a good fit for him? Yeah, I do. I think with Herbert, what you have to realize is he's kind of a one-read quarterback right now, and there are offenses in the NFL that can be very heavy based on the one-read. I think the Rams are a good example of that. So for Frank Reich, he's a very capable offensive coach and would make the right adjustments for him. I just get scared of Herbert's in-game presence and decision-making.

I think there's a lot of big moments where he comes up short. We have a gigantic sample size of the guy playing. He started for multiple years at Oregon. So he's not going to fall to 13. I'll say that right now. Something really bad would have to happen for him to fall to 13. So if he did, you like it because it's once again, I always put the Colts and the Chargers as two of my favorite landing spots for raw quarterbacks in this draft because the Chargers have Tyrod Taylor, who's a very capable spot starter, and the Colts have Jacoby Brissett, who's a capable spot starter. You don't need to rush those guys onto the field. The second they get to the facility is, you know, 22-year-old quarterbacks or whatever that may be. So,

but at the end of the day, I just look at Herbert and I sit there. He's not a guy I would move up for, and it would just shock me if he falls outside of the top 10. Final few questions I have for you, Connor. Appreciate your time as always, man. What would you do for the Colts? I mean, obviously, I don't think you're of the opinion that they should go for a guy like Jordan Love at 13. Maybe a guy like C.D. Lamb, Jerry Judy, why receiver at 13.

Any of their names make sense for you there? I know you mentioned pass rusher, maybe Ken Law, maybe Derek Brown. What do you think about maybe the possibilities there for the Colts at 13? Yeah, I would rather take a guy like Brown. I don't think Brown falls, but I think Kinlaw will be there at 13 and go out and give Chris Jones $100 million or whatever it is. So I would like Kinlaw at 13. I don't think Judy will be there.

I would take CeeDee Lamb at 13. Those are the two guys that I've highlighted. If Costanzo retires, you might have to get aggressive. If not, you're taking a chance, and, you know, Jadrick Wills will be gone, and then you're hoping that one of Tristan Wirfs, Makai Becton, or Andrew Thomas falls to you at 13. But once again, the problem is, you know, the Jets want to go offensive line at 11. The Browns want to go offensive line.

The Jags want to go offensive line. The Giants might want to go offensive line. All those teams are in go offensive line. The Giants might want to go offensive line. All those teams are in front of the Colts, so that starts to scare you, and you never know what the hell the Raiders are going to do, although I think they've done a good enough job building their offensive line. So for me with the Colts, I'm very curious to see how they play this draft. With the Colts, it wouldn't even shock me if they take a corner there, the way they draft over the years.

It really wouldn't even shock me. So I look at it, and a receiver would surprise me, but if I was picking, I would be very happy with someone like C.D. Lamb there or Javon Kinlaw. Connor, how excited are you, just closing things up here, that the draft is finally going to be in a city like Las Vegas? I feel like that's going to be really crazy, not only for the fans, but for a guy like you and the rest of the crew at BR. I'm really excited for the fans. For us at BR, unless something changes, and it could, we do everything from our New York City studio because we cover every single pick. And it's just too much of a production hall to be out there on the draft because it's

really a crazy experience. Nashville looks brilliant. Growing up as a kid from New York, I loved it in Radio City. I thought that it's obviously too small now, I think, to host what the draft has become, which is a good thing for our business. But, you know, I think the traditional sense of it was exciting. So for Vegas, it's going to be somebody that spent a lot of time in Las Vegas last summer, you know, mostly for work. But it's going to be, you know, difficult in a sense to set it up the right way, because it's going to be crazy. You're going to have people that are there just to be in Vegas, you know, difficult in a sense to set it up the right way, because it's going to be crazy. You're going to have people that are there just to be in Vegas.

You're going to have people there for the draft. But I think when all is said and done, it's going to look magnificent. And I'm excited to see it. And who knows, maybe I will be there. But right now I plan on covering every single pick from the New York City studio. And I hope the people that do go have a blast, because the draft is starting to really become one of those must-attend NFL events. And I think that's great for the league.

Absolutely. You guys can follow Connor on Twitter at ConnorJRoggers. Subscribe to Stick to Football Podcast on Bleacher Report like I do. Appreciate the time as always. Connor, thanks for setting the scene for us. No problem, Evan. Thank you for having me.