Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 2/4/20: Marlon Mack extension coming soon + Biggest winners from Senior Bowl

Episode Date: February 4, 2020

On today's episode, Zach Hicks of Stampede Blue returns to go over plenty of Colts topics. First up, the Colts are reportedly working on an extension right now with running back Marlon Mack. What should the price tag be for Mack, and is this a smart move for Indianapolis?Zach was down in Mobile, Alabama to see these prospects in-person. So, we hit on plenty including Justin Herbert and Jordan Love. Also, who are some under the radar prospects Colts fans should keep their eyes on? As we all know, Colts GM Chris Ballard loves Senior Bowl players.Finally, we go over the latest on Anthony Castonzo. Is the longer wait indicating he's staying or leaving most likely? Indianapolis also hired former Eagles OC Mike Groh this week. Another Philadelphia reunion for head coach Frank Reich.In the Super Bowl, Kansas City proved elite quarterbacks are the top priority. Will the Colts be able to follow a similar script soon enough? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back into your latest episode of Locked On Colts, probably Locked On Podcast Network. Today's audience is Evan Sutter and Joe Baer, our weekly guests on the show. Zach Hicks, Stampede Blue. How are you doing, Zach? Pretty good, man. I know it's been a little bit of a while since I've been on, so it's cool to come back on your show here. No, no. I appreciate the time as always, Zach. And we're going to go through a couple of news bits today,

starting off here with the report from Jim Iloh of the Annapolis Stars yesterday that the Colts and Marlon Mack are working on an extension. That's not a surprise, honestly. If you watch Chris Biles' postseason press conference, he talked glowingly about Marlon Mack and Ryan Kelly. So I assume those two guys will be extended here soon. Mack might be the first one up here. What's your thoughts on the Marlon Mack extension?

Because I know the running back position nowadays is a big debate. Yeah, so I want to preface what I'm going to say here by saying Marlon Mack was excellent last year. I mean, he was, I mean, he's just shown so much development over his career, you know, running the ball, even in passing game, you know, catching the ball and blocking as a pass blocker. He's just developed so much, but I really like how he's come along as a runner, you know, reading holes, finding space, using its blocks and exploding for big plays.

But that being said, personally, just my belief when it comes to running back, because I would never really give a second contract to a running back. You know, we've already seen with Marlon Mack early in his career that he's had the injury issues. And then, you know, when he was out, Jonathan Williams in his two starts or one and a half starts averaged over a hundred yards game. I just think the position right now is very

replaceable. And that's, again, no indictment on Marlon Mack. I think Marlon Mack deserves this money and I'm glad he's getting it. But I just think overall, it's hard to justify paying. I know the Colts have a lot of cap space and I know that it doesn't really hurt them whatsoever. I just think the philosophy of paying running backs is not really great. But again, they have a ton of cap space. I don't think that it's, you know, a bad move by any means. I just think that, you know, overall, it's not really that big of a move because, again, running backs are pretty replaceable. But, you know, again, at the end of the day, good for Marlon Mack. He definitely deserved this money.

Yeah, definitely would agree with your points there. I do believe Marlon Mack, he fits this Colts team like you mentioned, Zach. He's improved so much the last couple of years. But let me ask you, because I know the estimated value for running back is so different nowadays. I know Zeke Elliott got huge money. Le'Veon Bell got huge money, too.

He's not going to be in that tier of running back. So just to clarify for listeners out there, we shouldn't expect Merlin Mack to break the bank with the Colts. Probably more of maybe like a six to $8 million per year. Do you expect? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about running back who I don't, I don't think he's finished a regular season healthy yet. Like he's never played all 16 games in regular season. He just broke a thousand yards for the first time in his career this past season. So yeah, I don't expect it to be a huge deal.

Maybe at the max $9 million a year, but I still think that would be a little much. So, yeah, I think around $6 to $8 million a year would probably be the range that I would think, probably over like two, three, maybe four years. Yeah, I think that definitely makes a lot of sense. And I would expect this Marlon Mack stuff to really pick up here as the combine gets closer and closer in a couple weeks. But let's pivot over here. Zach, you had a chance to actually be there in person in Mobile this week

before we get into some prospects just how was it overall that week in Mobile and what'd you learn down there yeah you know it's always great going down to Mobile this last year was my my third year down there and yeah you just kind of learn a lot you know it's not just from watching the players all week but also kind of hearing how they talk being able to talk to them in person on the media day and throughout the week. And then also hearing, you know, from NFL executives down there. I talk to a couple scouts every year, a couple other draft analysts, you know, in media. So you just kind of learn a lot overall.

So, I mean, I think it was a good week. There was a lot of good players. And I think a couple surprise players that really stepped up and improved their stock. Let's get into some of those prospects, Sam. First up here, obviously one that's gotten the most buzz of Colts fans the last few months, Jordan Love of Utah State. We'll start with the quarterbacks here first. We'll go to Love. What was your thoughts on Jordan Love seeing you in person?

Yeah, so Jordan Love, obviously, you know, the arm talent's the first thing that pops out, and, you know, you can see that on tape. You can see that throughout all of his college years. I mean, the arm talent really the first thing that pops out and you know you can see that on tape you can see that throughout all of his college years I mean the arm talent really just just pops off the screen and in person it's even better that arm was insane I would say that it's probably the best you know arm just from again the touch the anticipation and the and definitely the velocity that I've seen down there since maybe when Josh Allen came down there and he was throwing it you know 100 miles per hour all over the place I think that Jordan Love's arm talent was really impressive down there I do think that he didn't necessarily help himself too much because I still saw a lot

of those inconsistencies from you know missing balls every now and then you know missing simple routes and stuff not really being able to read defenses and practice but I know, again, I don't think he hurt himself going down there. I think he just kind of showed what he showed this last year on tape, that he's a really good quarterback with a ton of great traits and a lot of coachable traits. But he's not really there yet right now. So, you know, I don't think it was an outstanding week for him. But I think overall he didn't really hurt himself in any way.

He did show off those plus traits that everybody likes everybody likes yeah next one on the list here and definitely obviously I saw a picture from Chris Shepard of let's head on that real quick Chris Shepard of NFL Scheme on Twitter he's also worked for Stampede Blue he was down there with you Zach had a chance to talk to Jordan Love he had a story on Stampede Blue he had a chance to actually follow around some Colts members during practice it seemed like they're really focused on quarterbacks too. I don't know if you had a chance to follow along closely like Chris did. I know you were probably scouting some of their players, but did you notice where the Colts – I mean, obviously,

every team has a lot of scouts there, but did you notice a certain emphasis on the Colts and watching quarterbacks? Yeah, you know, apparently from what Chris was telling me, that, you know, a lot of the coaching staff was keeping their eye on Jordan Love and Justin Herbert throughout the week. I personally did not really follow them around too much. I mean, that's, you know, that's of the coaching staff was keeping their eye on Jordan Love and Justin Herbert throughout the week. I personally did not really follow them around too much. I mean, that's, you know, that's what Sherpa was kind of doing. He was staying kind of close and keeping an eye on that stuff.

I know Luke Diamond from For the Culture was also keeping an eye on that as well. I was personally just kind of watching my own guys and trying to get my own opinion of what I saw down there. But, yeah, from everything that Sherpa told me, it looked like the Colts were keeping their eye on what I saw down there. But yeah, from everything that Sherpa told me, it looked like the Colts were keeping their eye on some quarterbacks down there. If you've been a listener to this podcast, I'm sure you've heard all the great advertisers working with Locked On to reach sports fans. But you know what?

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lockedonpodcast.com slash advertising. We look forward to hearing from you guys soon. Certainly interesting. It's definitely going to add some more fuel to the fire for those in that camp, but let's go on to Justin Herbert here, Zach, for a second. What was your thoughts on Herbert? It seemed like consensus-wise, I know Jordan Love did well in Mobile, but it seemed like Justin Herbert

won the week. Herbert looked better and further along than, than Jordan Love. I think they both have, you know, those plus traits that I was talking about when it came to Love. I think Herbert has a lot of those plus traits as well from, from his armed talent, his, his touch and anticipation. But again, I think that he also kind of struggled when it came to some of the team sessions. I think he did better than Jordan Love in the team sessions, just because I think, again, I think he's a little bit more developed

as a prospect right now. But, you know, there were still kind of inconsistencies. Anything that he had to drop in three or five set drops, he really struggled with his footwork. Just because he didn't really do that much at Oregon, he did have some accuracy issues. So, again, I don't really think he hurt himself throughout the week, but I don't think he really blew away anybody and became this great prospect overnight. I think he's still kind of the same talented, flawed prospect he was going into the week, which is fine. So yeah, I think it was a good week for him. I don't think it was anything special, but he did kind of show that he was the top quarterback as of right now down there. Obviously, maybe not a lot changed for you personally after seeing these guys in person,

but would you still rank Love above Herbert, or how would you put those guys? If you're in the cold situation, who do you think looked better in that weekend? Has that changed your rankings at all? Yeah, no, it doesn't change much for me. I mean, the senior bowl really only change much when it comes to two high profile profile guys like that. If one just looked head and head and shoulders above the other one, which I don't really think Herbert really looked, you know, that much better than Jordan love.

He definitely looked like the better quarterback, but again, they kind of both showed what they were on tape. We're just talented and kind of full of prospects that, that need a little bit of work. So yeah, currently I would still prefer Jordan love for the Colts just because I think his upside is a bit higher. I'm right there with you. I'm still in the love camp over Herbert.

Just like you mentioned, the upside is there. And we saw a quarterback. I know the comparisons are getting probably a little too much with Mahomes, but, I mean, you have a similar type of prototype. You can maybe mold it a little bit. But let's move on here to our next position group within the Senior Bowl recap, and that's defense tackle. And, my goodness, Zach, Javon Kimball was an absolute beast down there in Mobile from what I saw in practice and he shut it down for

about two or three press days I believe I know there was an injury but I bet you his agent probably told him he probably was good after those first few days so what was your thoughts on Kinlaw? Yeah you know to start off with Kinlaw it's not even just when he's on the field you know right when we first got down there he was I, I believe, the second podium speaker, you know, at the opening press conference behind it, right after Jalen Hurts, I believe. Or no, I think he went before Jalen Hurts. So he was actually the first one. And right away, I mean, he just blew everyone away. I mean, he was just outstanding on the podium. just really well-spoken guy. Came off as very confident, but also came off as a pretty humble

person who spoke about his beginnings and, you know, going from homeless to Juco to where he is now. So I think just off the field, he killed the entire week. I think that he won over a lot of people in the media just from that aspect. And then on the field, I mean, he was probably the best overall player down here. His size, speed, explosion, power. Yeah, it's tough not to love Javon Kinlaw after that week. I mean, on the field, off the field, he made a lot of fans that week. And I was already big on him. I already thought he was a top, you know, 10, 15 player in this draft.

But I think there's going to be a lot more people on the Javon Kinlaw hype train after this past week. Yeah, I'm seeing mob drafts now, Zach, where a lot of them don't even have them going 13 now. Either it's Carolina at seven, Arizona at eight, Jacksonville at nine. There's a lot of teams now that could take Kinlaw ahead of the Colts, but it seems like what you're talking about there, just the personality, the guy on and off the field, it seems like if we're talking just the best player available,

the guy who fits the Colts the most, I think Javon Kinlaw checks an awful lot of those boxes. Yeah, you know, if it wasn't for the need of quarterback, I think that he would be the slam dunk pick at 13 if he were there. Yeah, definitely agree with you there. And I think it's going to be one of the more interesting topics too, because Kinlaw is one of those dominating defense tackles, and he definitely would help out the Colts a little bit.

But any other players, Zach? I know as far as there's a lot of talent down there in Mobile, but any others that's still out too? Yeah, you know, I'll actually talk about a couple that I also interviewed as well as saw as kind of standouts in the week and also kind of fit with the Colts. One that I really think, you know, had a good week, and I think that he would fit really well with the Colts and kind of what they like is Ben Bartsch.

If you guys don't know who that is, he's an offensive tackle slash offensive guard. He didn't kind of play either, but he's from, I believe, St. John. Super small squad. I believe it was Division III. He came to the week as a really small name. Jim Maggio was hyping him up, though, in the press conference. And when I talked to him, you know, he's a very soft-spoken guy. Does not say a lot of words, but, you know, we were talking about pass sets we were talking about uh what he kind of does on the offensive line and a lot of his kind of philosophy when it comes to offensive line play matches up with Chris Strasser and Howard Mudd's type of you know aggressive offensive line play so I think from that point he really checked off that box if

the Colts were really looking for that kind of player and then I think on the field he had a really really good week you know what you really want to see with these small school guys is that they look overwhelmed. And, you know, outside of a couple reps throughout the week, he looked great all week. So Ben Bartsch is a guy to keep an eye on, you know, if Anthony Costanza retires, or even if he doesn't, I think, you know, in that second, third, fourth round, even, I think Ben Bartsch could be an interesting guy. And then another guy who really stood out throughout the whole week was wide receiver Denzel Mims out of Baylor. He had a huge week. I mean, he was obviously the best receiver down here.

I don't even think it was very close. Just from his ability to make great catches, to show off some route running, his athleticism, and also his blocking in the wide receiver drills. I think he just nailed it in all those areas. And then the last guy I'm pointing out is a cornerback out of Notre Dame is Troy Pride Jr. I didn't really know much about him coming into the week but he had a great week as well and he was locking down receivers left and right really

athletic player really physical player too and when I talked to him after one of the practices he was he was really smart you know I was uh I was challenging him a little bit on like certain situations and press man and and stuff like that he answered all my questions with uh flying colors uh so to speak so yeah I think those three guys had huge weeks and uh especially Bart and Mims I think feel a lot of what the Colts would like coming up in this draft so keep an eye on those guys for sure yeah Mims I think made himself a lot of money in Mobile I doubt he mixed around three now I've seen a lot of people having Mobile. I doubt he mixed to round three now. I've seen a lot of people having the third round, but I bet she goes day two now in round two.

Maybe mid-second round, it wouldn't surprise me at all with a guy like Denzel Mims, but this wide receiver class is a whole sack for a moment. I wanted to hit on that because I know Jerry, Judy, and CeeDee Lambert, WR1, WR2, but this wide receiver class has maybe 15, 20 guys who are going to be actually good wide receivers in the NFL. So if you're in the Colts position, there's going to be a lot of talent available for them. They don't have to reach for a guy on round one. They could go get a guy like Denzel Mims on day two, or even a guy later on the draft, like a Michael Pittman Jr. or Chase

Claypool on day three. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I don't want to give too much away because I believe by the time you have this podcast up or if you get up later tonight by tomorrow morning, I'm going to be starting my Build Ballard series over at St. P. Blue again. It was a pretty successful series last year where I looked at Chris Ballard's draft trends over the course of his career as a GM and assistant GM and see what he kind of likes in position. So tomorrow I'm going to be starting the series again with wide receiver. And there is one receiver who I think fits every single bit of what Ballard likes. I'm not going to reveal it yet. I mean,

you guys will have to read the article tomorrow, but you know, there's that one I think really, really fits, but I think, you know, there's a good bit in this class that are going to be talented players. You know, last year wide receiver class wasn't elite by any means, you know, that I think there was only one or two guys that probably should have been first rounders. And now we're looking at a lot of really good contributors in the NFL just from a weaker wide receiver class. So I think, you know, with this class this year, with how good it is, I think we're going to have a lot of, you know, day one contributors in the NFL.

Comparing the 2020 receiver class, Zach, just the years, years past your last couple of years, is it fair to say after seeing at least the seniors in person down in Mobile, this is easily one of the more talented wide shirt class you've seen in a long time? Yeah, you know, I think I think it's tough to say that based off of the senior bowl, because, you know, the year before we had Terry McLaurin and Debo Samuel kind of just tearing it up down there. So it's really unfair to the guys who are down there this year to kind of compare it. You know, like Denzel was great this year,

but he was not as good as Debo or Terry McLaurin. But I think overall, when you watch the tape on this class, and you watch the underclassmen and some of the seniors who are a little bit injured and couldn't perform out in the Senior Bowl, yeah, I think this is one of the more talented classes in years. I want to remind you guys, if you haven't already, subscribe to Locked on Colts, your daily podcast on the Indianapolis Colts.

We're going to be with you guys all throughout the office in here. We have great guests. The Combines are going to be in a couple weeks. We have the draft coming up in a couple months. Free A&T is going to be coming up very fast, too. The most important Colts offseason in recent memory, probably in the last 15, 20 years, to be honest, with no quarterback situation the way it's going right now.

We're going to have to do a lot of work. The Colts are to get this team back on track. So you want to be listening to Locked On Colts for early information. Make sure to rate, review, and subscribe. Five stars, five stars. You love what you're hearing here on Locked On Colts. Now moving on here to your next topic here. We've hit on it before, I think, a couple weeks ago,

but just at this point, still no news on Anthony Costanzo. Zach, what's your thoughts on that? And where are you currently leaning on that? Because I feel like the longer we go, I don't know where it's going to lean. Right now, I'd probably lean personally towards he's coming back the longer this goes, but what do you think? I don't know. You know, personally, I'm not very nervous about it.

I know a lot of people kind of are, but, you know, when you kind of look at what he was talking about with the indie media, you know, when this whole story kind of started was Casanza was kind of saying, like, he's got a lot to, to mull over this offseason. He didn't really hint at retirement, retirement too much. You know, it was kind of just something that was thrown out there. And then, you know, he's been looking at a huge deal this offseason. I mean, he's the number one tackle that's going to hit the market if he even hits the market. And, you know, he's going to be looking at a huge deal this offseason. I mean, he's the number one tackle that's going to hit the market if he even hits the market. And, you know, the Colts definitely want to keep him around.

Frank Wright called him the best left tackle in football, I believe, in a recent press conference. So, you know, a guy his age turning down what could be $16, $17, $18 million a year over a couple years, I think that's just really tough, and I really don't see it happening. So, yeah, I'm personally actually not too nervous about it whatsoever. I think he'll be back. Obviously, the Colts have to look at his eventual replacement, but I don't think it's going to be as big a need as what a lot of people are thinking.

I think I know, obviously, the Colts have one of the better offensive lines in the NFL starting-wise, but the depth behind them, Zach, I'm glad you brought Ben Bartsch earlier because he's one of the guys I'm intrigued by after watching the Senior Bowl. They definitely need help at tackle as far as a guy who could maybe do the Joe Haig role if Haig leaves and goes elsewhere. You also need another guard in there, maybe another backup center if you don't like Javon Patterson from last year's seventh-round pick. I think this team could actually take offense alignment in this year's draft,

and that could maybe make some Colts fans mad, but you know how much Chris Bauer loves those trenches. Oh, yeah, for sure. And, you know, nobody should be upset about that. I mean, when it comes to the NFL, you need depth across the board. And, you know, the Colts' offensive line stars are amazing. But right now, Joe Higg will probably get a starter deal from somebody, which the Colts will be able to match.

And, you know, LaRaven Clark is – his writing has been on the wall for a couple years now. So they definitely need that depth. So, you know, if the Colts go somewhat high on offensive tackle, even with Anthony Costanzo coming back, or if they spend a couple of day three picks on offensive line, it wouldn't shock me whatsoever because that depth is so important. So, yeah, I could definitely see the Colts going offensive line quite a bit in this draft.

Zach, as far as positions go, I know we've hit a lot on this podcast over the last few months about wide receiver, quarterback, defensive tackle. Is there any other under-the-radar positional needs that this Colts team could address either in free-in or draft that we haven't talked about much? There's a couple. I think tight end always kind of gets thrown out there a little bit. I do think they really want that receiving-type tight end on there because I think they know what Doyle is,

and I think they more see Miley Cox as a dominant blocker. I don't think they see him much as that kind of receiving threat. So tight end is definitely one. We just kind of hit an offensive line. I do think the offensive line will be another one. but another one i would really like to see you know kind of addressed and it's going to probably shock people is um i wouldn't be afraid if they looked at linebackers uh in this class because i mean it's a good linebacker class especially has a lot of those athletic guys that that bauer likes but you know anthony walker is going to be

out the door soon you don't really know what you have in EJ's speed. And then you have two seventh rounders there. So outside of Okereke and Darius Leonard, you have a little bit of uncertainty there at that position. I'm not saying go out there and spend your first pick on a linebacker, but Mallard loves drafting his linebackers.

He'll probably look at it in this class as well. So I wouldn't be shocked if he kind of sees that, not as a big need, but as a, you know, kind of a minor need coming into this draft. Yeah, it wouldn't honestly surprise me if they took over the linebacker safe at sixth or seventh round. I think they do need to just get another extra body in there for camp and definitely see if there's one that could be molded long-term

as a backup for special teams. But we can close the show, Zach, talking about this. And it came out on this weekend. It was confirmed actually today by Joel Erickson and Zach Kiefer that Mike Groh, the former Eagles offensive coordinator, was hired by the Colts to be their wide receivers coach. It was the old role that Groh actually had when Frank Reich was in Philadelphia. They moved Kevin Patu, the old wide receivers coach for the Colts,

into an offensive consultant role, passing game coordinator. What's your thoughts on that little shuffle that the Colts did off of the staff? Yeah, you know, I personally don't know too much about grow um i know that eagles fans are kind of mixed feelings about him uh personally though i never think it really hurts to to add more chemistry and more people that you've worked with to the building uh so you know like the more minds the merrier uh more uh you know just adding kind of that think tank uh before games on sunday so you know, just adding kind of to that think tank before games on Sunday. So, you know, anyone who doesn't like this move,

I think it's just kind of being overdramatic. I think, again, at the end of the day, you have someone who's worked with Reich who's had success with Frank Reich. So I don't think it's a bad move by any means. Yeah, Groh definitely had some criticism in Philadelphia. But when they were together, him and Reich in 2017, they obviously put together some magic and won a Super Bowl together. But we'll see if they can rekindle that magic, of course, in Indianapolis.

But before I let you go, Zach, what was your thoughts on the Super Bowl this year? Because we saw, obviously, a really good game. The 49ers really dominated most of that second half before the Chiefs came back, Patrick Mahomes. It kind of showed you two points, honestly, that the quarterback can win you a game if he's a lead enough, but also that a defense can take you to that point in the season at that. Yeah, you know, I think it was a good game. I think it was between

you know, I think it was a good game between you know, you got to see the best quarterback in football versus the best team in football. And, you know, I'm not saying the Chiefs are a bad team by any means, but their talent level is certainly not as good as the 49ers. The big difference, though, is you have kind of a game manager,

decent average quarterback in Jimmy Garoppolo going against the best quarterback in football. At the end of the day, the team with the better quarterback typically wins. I think it just kind of heightened the importance of the quarterback position. You know, it really matters if you can get that good quarterback. So I think, you know, Colts fans and the Colts going into this next draft need to kind of keep that in mind. Like, you know, don't go into this draft saying we need to get our Pat Mahomes, but, you know, look how far a really good quarterback can take you. And look how, you know, you can lose games if you don't have that really good quarterback play, or you don't really have a good passing

offense. You kind of need that passing offense. So, yeah, my biggest takeaway was just, you know, quarterback play is always key, especially in this league. I think it's very self-explanatory, but the Chiefs kind of showed it this whole playoffs. You know, every time they went down, they were able to come back because of their passing offense and their quarterback play. And that's definitely an area where the Colts need to improve. Yeah, quarterback is definitely a top need for this team. And like Pro Football Focus said, I believe it was yesterday in a video, that the Colts, outside of Jacoby Bursette, they have a top-tier team. They just need to get that quarterback situation settled.

And we'll have to see if the Colts do that here in the 2020 draft. But thanks again, Zach, for coming on. You can follow Zach on Twitter, at ZachHicks2. You can read his content, as always, over on Stampede Blue. Zach, appreciate your time as always, man. Yeah, of course, man. Thanks for having me on.