Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 3/16/20: Colts open free agency trading No. 13 pick for DeForest Buckner, Philip Rivers rumors intensify

Episode Date: March 17, 2020

On today's episode, which was recorded moments after the DeForest became official, Evan was joined by Stampede Blue's Steven Reed for raw reaction.What will Buckner bring to the Colts, and what was the No. 13 overall too much? Buckner will change the Colts' defense immediately, and now their defensive line has terrifying potential. Justin Houston, Denico Autry, Buckner, and Kemoko Turay. Watch out.Also, we talk through the Philip Rivers rumors. If Ballard is going all-in on a title run with Rivers, Indy won't be done either. Who are other names to watch? Who are prospects to watch in the second round now, unless they trade up for a sliding QB (Herbert or Love).Finally, we close on Anthony Castonzo re-signing on a 2-year, $33 million deal. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back into your latest episode of Locked On Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Today's audience is your host, Evan Seder and Jumbo. Our guest on the show today, Stephen Reed of Stampede Blue. We had breaking news, Stephen, about 10 minutes ago. It just happened. DeForest Buckner, shockingly, is on his way to the Colts.

$21 million pure for defensive tackle. So the Colts value him an awful lot. That's the second highest most to Aaron Donald in defense tackle market. The price, though, was number 13 overall. I'm seeing mixed reactions so far. A lot of people love it, and a lot of people are saying, why pay that much for defense tackle as far as draft compensation goes? Steven, what do you think about this deal?

Because the more I think about it, the more I like it, but I'm also kind of – I don't know what to say about their thoughts on quarterback unless they are going to sign a Phillip Rivers, which has been heavily rumored today. Maybe this is Chris Bauer pushing in his chips, so to say, Steven, the next two years and say, Hey, I'm going for a cerebral. Yeah. Yeah. I'm shocked by the compensation. I'm not necessarily shocked by the player is to force Buckner.

He's a young ascending talent just recently made the pro bowl. He's 25 years old, but like you said, $21 million a year in the 13th overall pick. That's a hefty price tag. And there were rumors all day that they were going to potentially trade for a defensive lineman or somebody was on the trade market. I had no idea that it would be DeForest Buckner. I assumed that it would be Chris Jones or somebody like that, that it's DeForest Buckner and that it's the 13th overall pick.

And which I think is the one thing that gets me, but at the same time, Chris Pollard has said from the get-go that the three technique drives this thing. And DeForest Buckner is, you know, a great defensive lineman, played on arguably the most dominant defensive line in recent memory with the San Francisco 49ers. He was just a great player. So I'm excited to see it. I have my reservations. I think

he makes this trade for a second round, a deep draft at some positions that the Colts arguably need. I think you're right. I think Chris Ballard might be pushing all in right now and saying, look, we've got a great roster. We've got a lot of guys on rookie deals. Let's go

ahead and see if we can win one. Now with the potential, have an opportunity to push all in like this. It's just surprising, and I think it caught a lot of us off. Yeah, definitely agree there. And overall, I wonder as well, just the shocking price tag here, $21 million, and that means they value him so much. Looking at his stats the last two years, Steven, 19.5 sacks in 32 games, definitely disruptive there. He also has what looks like two forced fumbles this past season. He also has five total

pass deflections the past two years. Very active defensive tackle, 34 quarterback hits over that span, 25 tackles for loss. So he's definitely turned like a monstrous page in year three and year four of his career. And Bowden must believe like the ceiling is still high enough to where he could be in it. I mean, you have to believe at this point, paying to have a price and getting out of money, that he might – they believe he might be the next Aaron Donald.

Like they have to believe he's like a disruptive force for the next five, six years. It's got be that. That's gotta be where their heads at because otherwise this move makes no sense at all. But if, if they're right and let's be real, Chris Ballard is right far more often than he's wrong.

When it comes to these guys, this could be a move that, that really changes that franchise. And if they were looking to, say, maybe take a Devon Kinlaw at 13 or looking at a defensive tackle position, this now removes it. So they've got 34 and 44, two early second-round picks. They could potentially make that move up if, say, a Jordan Love or a Justin Herbert starts to

slip that those I don't think that we sit here and talk about a little bit more I get a little bit more comfortable with the move it's still the compensation is shocking because Chris Ballard just values those picks the highest Chris Ballard you know Chris Ballard hasn't really it's just such a high pick to give up. As you can tell, I'm just, I'm still a little bit in shock by it. I'm getting more comfortable with the thought of it as we talk about the team building aspect of Chris Ballard and what he looks for. But it really goes to show just how valuable he thought that defensive

tackle position was for the Colts. Yeah, definitely agree to there. And he is an ascending player too he is only going to be what looks like 26 years old next season you're going to have throughout the prime of his career at this point age 26 to assume age 30 age 30 age 31 season I mean if it's not the next two years this is what really shocks me the most, Stephen, is that paying this price, the compensation plus the contract, plus the hot rumors of Phillip Rivers, Bauer must believe, like we were talking about at the start of the show,

this team is bound, like we can win a Super Bowl right now. Like this, that makes me think like this Colts team is not done. If they truly believe they're in a win-down mode, Stephen, they're going to be a very heavy spender, I feel like, in this offseason period. What do you think? Yeah, I think this move kind of makes me think that they are going to maybe pursue a Phillip Rivers and make that upgrade

at the quarterback position. Now, if they do trade for or go ahead and sign Phillip Rivers to a market value deal, they're probably going to look to move to Kobe Brissett, which they would need to do by, I think, Saturday. I believe his contract becomes fully guaranteed on the 22nd. But if they were able to trade him before that, then they'd be able to get some of that salary cap space back and they could use it to other positions. Yeah, this is, I think from a, it just seems like he's definitely going all in right now.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see, see them go and pursue a quarterback, a veteran quarterback and free agency at this point. Then potentially draft one at, at 34 or trade up to get one at 34 and then take somebody. Like, you know, there's been rumors that Nelson Aguilar has been on their wish list as a free agent wide receiver. But, yeah, this is – I'm still a little bit – it's still a little bit shocking and surprising. So I'm excited to see what other moves they've got up their sleeve

because obviously he's been aggressive. And you've heard different people talk about or you've seen different people on Twitter say that DeForest Buckner was arguably the best defensive lineman of the San Francisco 49ers last year, even though he was vastly underrated and outshined by Nick Bosa and Eric Armstead. He didn't get the love that those guys did, but he was the most consistent. Who knows?

With this kind of talent, again, it's somebody Chris Ballard and Frank Reich who are really entering the prime of their two years. Bollinger has really kind of climbed. So I'm excited to see what happens. Yeah, definitely agree with you there. And let's talk about for a second here, Stephen, the possibilities now of this defensive line. You add in DeForest Buckner to the mix, elite three-tech,

highest-paid three-tech outside of Aaron Dahl in the league now. Three-tech drives this thing like we've been saying throughout the show and what Chris Bauer hinted at to us last month, that he was probably going to do something big here, and it was definitely bigger than we all expected with DeForest Buckner, so shocking if that as well. You add DeForest Buckner to Justin Houston. That's a terrifying left side, I feel like, Stephen.

Danico Autry, you throw into that mix. Probably draft one as well at this point, a defensive tackle, either on day two or day three. Kamoko Ture and Ben Banigou, maybe sign an edge rusher as well. This Colts team could be taking a huge leap here as far as the trenches go, and especially on the defensive line. That defensive line just looks like, with the addition of Buckner along with, like you said, Houston and Grover Stewart and how Grover Stewart's starting to come along at that nose tackle position, and then adding on the continued development of Banigou and Ture with the

potential of adding another pass rusher and free agency. This defensive line could be similar to what the offensive line was a couple of years ago, where Chris Ballard took what was arguably the biggest weakness in this roster and made it into one of the greatest strengths and that's kind of what i'm seeing from this this movement and what he's trying to do is trying to just solve everything in one offseason um similar to what he did with with that offensive line and obviously that's that worked out really well for them you know with with the offensive line now they've had going into another year with the same five starters a huge thing we all we all knew it would happen we actually have numbers on it now which is which is big but yeah I think that this this defense with the linebackers they've got

and being able to play aggressive and with a penetrated defensive tackle now in the mix that we know can do it and you don't have that injury concern that you have with some other players. Yeah, I think this defensive line could be scary. Yeah, when you build it around that sense, Steven, Chris Bauer has always said you build through the trenches. If you build up a top five offensive line and a top five defensive line, I know the importance of a quarterback is obviously needed here, but it feels like Chris Bauer saw what San Francisco did. He's like, you know what? I love that formula so much. I'm just going to pay a higher price and take your best guy from you

and just emulate that exact same plan. I feel like that 49ers team and seeing how successful that was, maybe that kickstarter thing worked backwards. My formula can actually work in this league. And you know what? Let's go push the chips in right now. What do you think? Yeah.

But I'm with it. I'm down with it. Chris Ballard's saying, you know what? This is arguably the best defensive line we've seen in a long time. I'm down with it. Chris Ballard's saying, you know what, this is arguably the best defensive line we've seen in a long time. DeForest Buckner was just a great player all of last year. We were able to go ahead and snag him and add to, like, strengthen what your weakness was.

As I said, I think this is a great idea. And we've joked about it before, at least we've joked about it all on Twitter, a bunch of us talking about, yeah, okay, well, San Francisco, of course, they've got a great defensive line. So being able to take a guy from that defensive line and, you know, plug him right in, and you've got a guy that, Justin Houston, that's consistent, and you've got a couple up and rising-rising pass rushers on the other side and Grover Stewart's coming along. I think you're right.

I think they'll add to the mix there at the defensive tackle position. But they've got a lot of good weapons there at the defensive line now that that looks like a much stronger group right now than it did half an hour ago. Yeah, certainly does. And adding to his strength here – and it makes me an hour ago. Yeah, certainly does. And adding to his strength here, and it makes me wonder though. I mean, I don't think Bauer makes this move, Stephen,

unless he, if he truly loved Jordan Love or he truly loved Justin Herbert, knowing they're probably going to go in that six to 15 range in this draft. Lowest they'll go is 20, trading all the way out to 34. I know there's still a possibility. We've seen Bauer now get very aggressive with DeForest Buckner but this very much

lowers the chance to get one of those two guys and it makes you feel like maybe the Colts are are bypassing the opportunity that Bauer maybe doesn't like either of those two guys well I think it's either he doesn't like or he's not totally sold on them or it's, he believes that they're going to be available because they both have some flaws in their game. Specifically Jordan love is he has some flaws in his game that he thinks that he might be available a little bit later and won't need to take him at 13. And like we said,

free agency changes everything. And we've now seen that you know with the colts it's you know before we talked about all right you know they're going to address the defensive tackle position in this draft we we know it that's that's just what's going to happen and now they might not because they just traded for an all pro at defensive tackle and they they may not be, you know, throwing the money around or throwing draft picks around to take that, that defensive tackle and stack that position, or at least certainly not early.

But yeah, my, my gut says that he either wasn't totally sold on, on Justin Herbert or Jordan love at 13, or he thought that he might be able to get them later. And that might be just a calculation that he's making. It's going to make for a boring day one of the NFL draft for Colts fans, though. Yeah, it certainly might.

And unless Bauer decides to get aggressive and trade up back into that first round, I feel like the only way he trades back into the first round, unless a premium talent, like a quarterback, like you're saying, falls to them, maybe he wants that fifth-year option on one of those guys. They can mix a lot of sense to package some of those picks if that's the plan. If not, though, Stephen, what do you think is next? Let's assume they sign Phillip Rivers, which has been all indications. Ian Rapport said there's mutual interest, even since the last few weeks ago.

Adam Schiff confirmed right at noon today that the Colts had interest. So that seems like it's going to happen here. So what do you think is going to be the plan? If they believe quarterback is good, at least for the next two years, you have defensive line, they're obviously prioritizing. What do you do at 34 and 44? I mean, it's so hard to tell, but maybe they still go left tackle if they believe Anthony Costanzo is only going to be here for two more years. I saw a report that they had a private

workout in a combine meet with Ezra Cleveland, who is a guy who's going to go in that 34-44 range. What do you think are the possibilities about that? My gut feeling is that they are going to take a wide receiver in there just because this is such a loaded draft class. And now spending the money on DeForest Buckner, re-signing Anthony Costanzo, potentially signing Phillip Rivers, you're eating up a lot of that cap space. And so you're not going to be able to sign a big-name guy like Amari Cooper,

who Dallas wasn't able to put the franchise tag on because they're working through stuff with Dak Prescott. And so I think you're going to look at the Colts and they're going to say, maybe they signed somebody like Nelson Aguilar. We talked about that last week. We talked about a little bit today and they'll go in and potentially in the draft, look at upgrading that wide receiver position, because currently on the roster, it's T.Y. Hilton,

Zach Paschal, and, you know, Darius Fountain got his exclusive rights free agent tender today. So those are your main guys at the wide receiver position. So I think that they'll look at the wide receiver. And then I think they'll either look at a corner, you know, somebody like a Bryce Hall or a Damon Arnett uh Bryce Hall out of out of Virginia Damon Arnett out of Ohio State uh both make a lot of sense to me they're at 44 um you could also see him going after an edge rusher um Chris Ballard's really big on traits

so Julian Aquara from Notre Dame makes a lot of sense based on traits. You can see him go and tackle like an Austin Jackson from USC. He's probably going to be a couple of years out, but he's got a great body, great build, great movement, but he still needs some, some seasoning. So that would be a guy, if they're looking at a developmental left tackle, that's a guy I would look at at 34, 44 if he's available. Yeah, I think the trenches are a good idea here, and especially with what we see Chris Bauer prioritize. I mean, today, I'm still in shock, honestly, Stephen.

That was 30 minutes ago. The news broke about Buckner to the Colts, but my goodness, who would have thought that? I mean, was this ever a possibility to you? I know Eric Armstead was going to be a free agent, but I don't think anyone had plans. Like everyone was saying, Chris Fowler is going to be more aggressive this off season, but I don't think trading for DeForest Buckner was ever on anyone's list as far as this is attainable. No. And you're, you're a hundred percent right. Like this is a guy that I would have never, never thought that one, San Francisco would be willing to let go and two

that chris pallard would go and make a move for because you've got guys on the free agent market like a jevon or jevon hargrave um like a malik collins that we've talked about before and chris jones being with the with chris ballard for a time in kansas city those were the obvious choices now he goes and and pulls this out of the blue and all this like the fact that nobody had this in the nfl nobody even hinted at this until it happened or until like the trade was finally being finalized tells you just how tightly you run a ship that chris ballard runs and how we don't know anything because they just don't leak which is fun for cold stance but also a little unnerving because like you kind of want a little

bit of a drip out because you're like oh come on give me some information I want to know a little bit but it's just one of those like when it hits you, it hits you, and you're like, whoa, what just happened? I'm both terrified and thrilled about what – it's like a roller coaster, really, and just not knowing what's going to happen and have it hit you like that. So like I said, I'm really excited about it, and DeForest Buckner is a fantastic player. Like we've said, he's a second team all pro this past year the interior defensive line was just a fantastic player this past year in the

past couple years and I'm if this is the guy that fixes that three technique it could change the entire face of this defense and people don't don't seem to understand how much that interior pressure really does affect quarterbacks you know when they first started throwing out spitballing i he traded you know stefan digs put out something that said that something's going to happen with him so we all were like all right well maybe it's digs maybe digs is going to wear somewhere and then you have the deandre hopkins trade earlier earlier where Houston just got fleeced by Arizona. So I'm like, well, maybe it is a wide receiver moving. But to have DeForest Buckner and to get him,

like as we start talking about it more and more, I get more excited about it. So I'm really excited about what Chris Ballard's done and where, where he's going and what, what the thought process is about how they're about to build this team. Yeah, definitely agree. It's building through the trenches and they're about to build this team. Yeah, definitely agree. It's building through the trenches and they're certainly living through it. That let's go down the wormhole now for a second, Stephen, with,

with Phillip rivers, because like you mentioned, the starter show you've hinted at throughout the show reports multiple times every day for me and rapport and Adam chapter saying the Colton, Phillip rivers have mutual interest. It seemed like it's imminent at this point, Stephen, and that's good. That's going to happen. What's your thoughts on Phillip Rivers to Indy? We've hinted at it the last time you were on this show.

I think that's the veteran room that makes the most sense here. But with going for Buckner, and if you assume you sign Phillip Rivers, around, let's say, $23 million, $25 million per year, Stephen, I have them currently with the Buckner deal at $51.5 million available to spend. Taking with Rivers in around $23 million or $25 million, that puts you about $28.5 million to $25 million available at the spin after filled with rivers. So a lot of your cash space going to two guys here,

if this is indeed the case. Yeah. Yeah. And it's one of those things where Chris Ballard told us like, this is going to happen. He was going to be active in free agency and the locker room is ready to bring in somebody. If we're going down the rabbit hole, I, I'm not,

I'm not totally sold on Phillip rivers. If he's at market value, if he's below market value, like a Phillip rivers, once 25 to 30 million, then I'm like, eh, on it. If he's looking at something, something around like what, that's making in that 15,, $20, $22 million then alright you know what let's go ahead and roll the dice with Phillip Rivers he's got good intermediate accuracy at that point like we said we're going to have to get rid of Jacoby Brissett at that point because it's going to be tough to have

two quarterbacks making that much money on your roster um and you'd have to do it by saturday so you'd have to think they've got a move already ready made it in the books for a jacoby reset if they've signed philip rivers um but yeah i think at that point you can tell that chris ballard was serious about spending money this offseason um you know obviously just DeForest Buckner move on its own, it makes a huge difference. And then, yeah, Phillip Rivers, I don't think that keeps them from

taking a quarterback in the draft to develop, but it might push it back a year. So they might like that next year's class a little bit better for what they're looking for. But yeah, like I said, it's exciting. We're still kind of all in shock from what just happened.

And yeah, in terms of what I think they'll do, I think they'll, they signed Phillip Rivers. I'm not going to hate it. I'm also not going to love it, but I'm going to trust Ballard on this because he seems to, he seems to do what he thinks is best or he always does what he thinks is best. And so far it's worked out. Yeah. So far so good. And I think with the rest of these moves, you have to wonder, I mean, starting it off with a bang like this,

is this the first time, I mean, since thinking about these moves, Stephen, I know this is off the top here and this is still very fresh news, but this has to be the most splashy move this Colts organization has made in an awful long time, even the Grixen era. I mean, we knew Andre Johnson and Frank Gore were over the hill, but this is the splashiest offseason I think the Colts have ever made, like honestly. Yeah, the only thing that I think is comparable,

and this is a terrible comparison is the trent richardson trade um where they traded you know the first round pick for running back which it's grigson so it was obviously a terrible decision um but in terms of getting like a proven all pro style player i can't remember a time that they've made a trade for that. You know, they brought in Eric Dickerson back in the early late eighties, early nineties. But beyond that,

they don't trade for, for guys very often. Or bring in those big name free agents. Like you said, Andre Johnson and Frank Gore might have been the most recent ones that really kind of come to mind. But beyond that, like this is such a – he could be such a difference maker for this defense that I think you're right.

It's one of those things where Chris Ballard saw an opportunity to go out and get an all pro for a 13th overall pick. And if you can get a guy that consistently maintains that level for 13th overall pick it's a great value for chris ballard now if deforest buckner steps back and has a you know steps back a little bit from that then you know we'll question that deal but as of right now it seems like it's a good trade for both teams i think the more i I think about it, the more it is a mutual trade, to be honest. I think it makes an awful lot of sense for the Colts if they do believe that when that push is happening, between now and 2022 and you're going all in, Costanza, Rivers, DeForest, Buckner, etc. Darius Leonard just now tweeted, we lit with

like 25 exclamation points. So these guys are really loving the news in the Colts locker room. Kenny Moore also just tweeted something as well. They're definitely loving it there, improving that defense. Let's talk about that potential in the defense for a second, Stephen. We can close the show here in a couple minutes because this has been a very fun, fresh episode for you guys. We're going to have more, obviously, throughout the week here on the show. But think about that defense.

Now we talk about the defensive line, but how is Darius Leonard? How is Kenny Moore? How are the rest of these guys impacted by DeForest Buckner's arrival? I feel like Danico Autry could be more 2018 Danico Autry now because of DeForest Buckner's presence, which has changed a lot for the interior defensive line too. I think this move, if it does – if the price we see is the Colts believe this guy is going to be a day one immediate impact guy

who changes the foundation of this defense, I think Darius Leonard's in for a career once again, Kenny Moore as well. I think a lot of these guys on the Colts young defense are going to really benefit. What's the potential now of this defense that they're still going to add even more to it? It's sky high. Darius Leonard obviously is already an all pro

and you're about to put an all pro defensive lineman in front of him to keep people off of him. You're literally giving Darius Leonard more space to be able to run and hit like he arguably could break the tackle record next year if he stays healthy um you're you're giving when you have that penetrator up the middle it forces quarterbacks to make mistakes because they see that pressure up in their eyes. So a slot corner specifically, like you mentioned, Kenny Moore, is going to have a little bit easier time because that quarterback is going to make a mistake and try to get rid of that ball a little bit earlier than what he wants.

And so you're going to see these guys have an opportunity to really excel this year and be able to be put in a position to succeed more so than you've seen them in this this defense thus far like you've got guys that are penetrators and you're just going to get the ball um you're going to see no longer can teams just single cover that defensive tackle with a with a a center. So you're going to have them pulling away offensive linemen from the edges. So you could see them potentially getting more sacks from Banigou, Ture, Houston, whoever they line up with that defensive end position. You're going to have pressure taken off of them by having a strong defensive tackle there in the middle.

And so it's just one of those things where it literally changes the entire face of the defense because like Chris Ballard says, the three technique drives this thing. And you just keep going back to what Chris Ballard tells us. And he tells us what he's going to do. He told us that he was going to go get a three technique. And sure enough, that's exactly what he did. He got an all pro for the 13th overall pick. Yeah, definitely did.

And any closing thoughts here before we close out the show, Stephen, obviously this is still fresh news. 45 minutes ago, we were talking about the defense tackle being still a top knee outside of quarterback on this team. And if they do go for a Phillip River, as soon as that happens, it might happen after we record this recording right're recording right now about 4.45 Eastern time for you guys here. So still might break

through the night here. We'll be back with you guys tomorrow for more if there's stuff that breaks. But before I let you go, I almost forgot this. Speaking of that, Stephen, Anthony Costanzo

is back with the Colts on a two-year deal. Now it's flying so under the radar here with Buckner and the Rivers rumors happening right now. But what's your closing thoughts here on Anthony Costanzo going back to Indy on a two-year deal and him committing a court to Stephen Holder

for the next two years? So there's going to be no possibility he is not back after the 2021 season as well. Yeah, I think it's a great move for the Colts, and I think it's a great move for Anthony Costanzo. And it's not nearly the amount of money that we thought it was going to be because Anthony Costanzo had maybe the top money in the tackle position is 18 million um and so you kind of thought that that Costanza would be right up around there and now he is 16 and a half um which makes him I think the second highest paid um left tackle in the league but given how the money has continued to

rise and when you think about next year with the collective bargaining agreement now being approved by the players, you're going to have probably a significant increase in cap space next year when those new TV deals come in. I think that this is going to end up being a bargain for the Colts. And, you know, having the peace of mind, knowing that Anthony, arguably the most consistent left tackle you've got in the league in recent years is going to be there protecting the blind side of your quarterback you're going to be all right and

I'm really excited for for the Colts to have him back it was such a huge cog and wheel to be able to continue to move this going forward and I think if Anthony Casanzo doesn't re-sign that contract or doesn't re-sign it for two years with that commitment for two years I think that they might not make this deforest buckner trade because then they're sitting there at 13 and they've got an opportunity to potentially take a left tackle so i think anthony costanza that was the first domino for the colts to fall and you're going to see other moves get made based off that so i was really excited for anthony costanza i think it's you know money that is well deserved um it seems like he might have

even took a discount. So I think the Colts got a great deal. I think the Cubs have got a great deal. And I'm just looking forward to what they keep doing. Yeah, this is definitely good fun, and I appreciate you coming on, Steve. And you guys can follow him at NiceReadSteve on Twitter. He does work over at Stampede Blue as well as a contributing writer. Appreciate the time again, Steve.

And I've really come out on rise and news is breaking, so appreciate your raw analysis here. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on. All righty, guys. That's it for today's episode of Locked on Colts. Appreciate everybody listening in. As always, we'll be back with you guys tomorrow for next episode

as we recap the free and free.