Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 3/18/20: DeForest Buckner deep dive with Locked On 49ers' Brian Peacock

Episode Date: March 18, 2020

On today's episode, Brian Peacock of Locked On 49ers joins to take a deep dive into the Colts-49ers trade featuring DeForest Buckner. What type of player are the Colts actually getting with Buckner?Analyzing the move for both sides, why did San Francisco decide to do this? Will they replace Buckner with Derrick Brown or Javon Kinlaw? Trading back is also on the table, too. Colts landing Buckner for No. 13 is their pseudo 1st-round pick now.How does Buckner fit in the Colts' zone-heavy scheme? As a penetrating 3-tech, Buckner should wreck havoc and free up players like Darius Leonard and Justin Houston even further.Also, Buckner the person fits the Colts' culture even more than the player. Indianapolis paid a hefty price for the star defensive tackle because he checks every box as a foundational building block. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back into your latest episode of Locked on Colts, part of the Locked on Podcast Network. Today, as always, your host, Evan Sedra, and joined by a very special guest on today's show, Brian Peacock, the host of Locked on 49ers. We're going to talk through the DeForest Buckner blockbuster that happened right when the legal tenure period opened on Monday. We're also going to talk through why the Colts did this and the 49ers themselves,

and also a little bit more about DeForest Buckner. How are you doing today, Brian? Fantastic, Evan. How are you? Doing great. Appreciate you coming on again on Short Notes. Appreciate that. And we're going to dive in now, Brian. We talked about from the cold side of things, but for those who haven't had a chance to listen to your show,

we're on the 49ers yet from the cold side of things. Why do you think the 49ers went ahead and did this move, signing Eric Armstead to a five-year contract, but giving away DeForest Buckner for a premium price, though, for a number 13 overall pick? Yeah, there's multiple levels to it. One was obvious cap space needed, and they already spent the number two overall pick last year on Nick Bosa while also trading a second rounder for the right to sign Dee Ford. So if you re-sign both Eric Armstead and DeForest Buckner,

you're paying your defensive line $60 million a year, and they already have another first round pick in Solomon Thomas, who's a reserve, and you just can't spend that much on one position group. So something had to give. And conventional wisdom was DeForest Buckner has been the most consistent player, a really impact guy. Everything's just solid with this guy. He was the Bill Walsh Award winner, which is the Walter Payton Award for the 49ers locker

room. So great locker room presence, consistent, played as many snaps as anybody since he's been drafted on the 49ers defense, doesn't miss games, doesn't get hurt, and impacts every single play, whether it's pass or run so a really good player might not be at the aaron donald level of defensive tackles but he's really good and one of the best players on the 49ers team in defense so you would you would think that okay that's the guy you keep around and then maybe you move on from eric armstead because you have a couple of other defensive ends and you can't pay everybody. But when you consider a team coming with a first round draft pick and not just a generic first round pick that is say, you know, a quote unquote

first round pick, because that can mean a lot of different things. This was a specific pick in the top half of the first round, number 13 overall, looking at how this draft class lines up. I think that's just too much to turn down for the 49ers rather than paying $21 million a year for a defensive tackle. And when you factor in the draft pick compensation and you factor in what type of year Eric Armstead had last year and his flexibility and value as being a big defensive end or a rusher from the inside, a defensive tackle. I think $4 million less per year, 17 mil for Eric Armstead. And he could have probably made more on the free agent market.

And so taking a little bit of a hometown discount, he's a Northern California guy, paying him less, getting a first round draft pick on top of it, really just sealed it for the 49ers. And it was a shrewd move. It was a move that John Lynch just really had to make given the circumstances and they valued Eric Armstead plus a first rounder more than DeForest Buckner at four million dollars more per year and maybe a third round comp pick

from the Colts point of view Brian it seems like the Colts front office is very ecstatic about this getting a guy like DeForest Buckner entering his prime, 19 and a half sacks the last two years. From the 49ers fan perspective, following on Twitter yesterday when it was all – or on Monday when it was all breaking, it made me think that the 49ers fans, I know they're getting a top 15 pick. I'd be pretty ecstatic about that.

But it seems like a lot of 49ers fans are very – not distraught, but pretty sad they're losing DeForest Buckner, one of their key pieces of the defense. Where would you rank, Brian, DeFforest buckner last year as far as the most impactful players in the 49ers in your top five top three and what are the colts exactly getting with the guy they're paying a premium for 20 million dollars per year yeah and as as one fan put it to me he was like man i just bought a deforest buckner jersey and that's what people are sad about because they thought this is the most obvious, consistent building block piece that the 49ers have. There's no way you would move on from a guy like that.

And it took getting that premium draft pick and all the other circumstances I laid out for that to happen. So a fan favorite, a really good player. And like I mentioned earlier, he's impactful against the run, impactful against the pass on every play. And he's a really unique player at his size and six, seven and 300 pounds to move the way he, and maybe he's not Aaron Donald, but he's in that next tier of defensive tackles entering his prime, as you mentioned. So a lot of value there. And so fans really just didn't expect that he would be a player that would potentially move on from the 49ers also because he wasn't going to be a free agent. But just the snap total that he's played since he was drafted, he played 1,000 snaps as a rookie

and hasn't played fewer than 850 snaps in any season in his career. I mean, he just hardly ever comes off the field. And it's not so much about production in the sacks, although he can collect sacks as he did in 2018 with 12.5. I think he had 7. a half sacks last season and then six and three in his first two years. But sacks can lie as a stat a little bit. So it's more about pressures and impact.

And he pressures the quarterback, and I think he absolutely helped out guys like Eric Armstead and Nick Bosa and Dee Ford to collect the sacks that they do. And I think it's pretty telling that a lot of times it was either DeForest Buckner or Nick Bosa that got the double team rather than two other very good players that were first round draft picks that are impactful in Dee Ford and Eric Armstead. So that's what he brings to the table. He opens up a lot for everybody else on your defense. You can move him outside and have him play a little defensive end. He could play three technique. He can play

five technique. So he can do a lot for a defense. And I think he's a fantastic fit and a really good player to build around for the Colts defense. Yeah, versatile chess piece. And one, Chris Bowers mentioned before, Brian, in our combine press conference, he mentioned the three technique drives this thing as far as our defense. And if they're playing a Tampa 2 heavy zone scheme,

maybe they're going to incorporate more man concepts this year as they're going to incorporate more man concepts concepts this year as they're grabbing more and more man corners via the draft, like Rocky's son over the years. But do you think Buckner could be that, that three technique that we've seen in the Chris Bauer era, like a Tommy Harris, a guy like Chris Jones, can Buckner be that one? I mean, I was there. They're pretty confident he's going to be that with the way they're paying

him the second most behind Aaron Don for defense tackles, but I, they must seem very confident Buckner's that three technique, or like you mentioned, he can maybe kick out inside on rundowns. Maybe get Grover Stewart and Danico Autry inside. He could play more of that Jabal Sugar on the outside, be a run-stuffing edge for a couple downs at a time. It seems like a hybrid starting to Forrest Buckner. It's kind of what everything Chris Bauer has wanted out of the defensive lineman.

Yeah, he can definitely do it all, and three tech is probably the best spot for him, and that's what he's played the last couple years with San Francisco. When they drafted him, they were running a 3-4 front, and he was more of that five technique, big defensive end, and Eric Armstead and Buckner both were sort of that, but in this day and age, it's all about nickel, and those guys are inside rushers, and so he's your three technique. He's a great fit there, shaped much different than you'd think

of a classic Tampa 2 three technique, right? Like Tommy Harris, you mentioned, and more of the quick, low-to-the-ground guys that are all about the initial burst and shooting gaps. And DeForest Buckner can do that. But the move that DeForest Buckner is famous for, and the one he uses the most, is a swim move. Because at 6'7", he just devours these guards, and he just swims right over the top of them,

and they really have no answer for it, but can also control guys with his hands. He's good against the run, and he just moves so surprisingly well for how big and how tall he is, and the only downfall really is when you're that tall and you're playing inside. Sometimes leverage can be an issue, and you just play a little bit too high,

but even at 6'7", he plays with really good leverage for how tall he is. But at times, guys can get underneath him. So great fit at three technique. He's going to swim, move guys all day. He can chase quarterbacks out of the pocket. He'll chase them into defensive ends and get sacks for other guys too. So really just an all-around player and a fantastic fit there for I think that Colts defense as a three technique most of the the time but you can move them around a little bit and have some

fun yeah speaking of the impact we're talking about in yesterday's show Brian that the impact he'll make on guys like Darius Leonard at linebacker Kamoko Ture young prospect at edge and Justin Houston as well I feel like Darius Leonard he's a main building block on our defense probably the guy the so-called superstar of their team right now it's probably Darius Leonard, he's a main building block in our defense. Probably the guy, the so-called superstar of their team right now is probably Darius Leonard with the way they're building their team. Quentin Nelson is obviously out there too, but if you throw DeForest Buckner in there to clean up the garbage, so to say, Brian, I feel like

Darius Leonard might have a field day and even have better years than we've already seen from him. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the best thing that DeForest Buckner does is not only is he a good teammate, he helps out the guys behind him because of how much he commands with an offense that they have to get him blocked and he can get those big arms up in the air and bat down passes. So he really just affects a lot of things because

he's such a unique player with his movement skills at his size. And so absolutely the linebackers behind him are going to love playing behind him. The pass rushers on the outside are going to have extra opportunities because he's chasing quarterbacks outside or they have fewer blockers blocking them because there's more attention paid to deforest buckner inside yeah that's a good point bram up there and especially guys that we talk about darius leonard and other guys in the front four like kamoka ture and just houston are going to really benefit brian from the 49ers perspective you think they end up doing here with that draft pick? Because they now have two in the first round, 13 and 31.

Do they go out and get a Javon Kinlaw or Derek Brown, 13 just to plug and play for a rookie contract of five years on the cheap to replace DeForest Buckner? Do they maybe open the trading down and maybe start playing more draft picks that are kind of depleted right now? Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm diving more into those top 15 prospects in this draft because I didn't think that those players that you mentioned, Kinlaw and Derek Brown and the top three wide receivers in this class and those offensive

tackles, I could see the 49ers going in any of those directions with the 13th pick. And now I've got to really pick those prospects apart and see how I feel about them and how I would rank them for the 49ers. I think if the draft were held today, I would lean toward Jerry Judy, CeeDee Lamb, Henry Ruggs, one of those wide receivers for the 49ers because they still haven't brought back Emmanuel Sanders at wide receiver. But an interesting thing that you brought up, and I think this is where it makes so much sense for a team that's going to need depth, that's going to be up against the cap for a while, that's a really good team that wants to build this for a long time, is they could potentially turn this one draft pick and DeForest Buckner into more picks and maybe picks in the

future. So I think they'll absolutely be open to listening to offers. Let's say a quarterback starts to slip and another team wants to come up and draft a quarterback at 13. They should be listening to those type of offers and they can really go in any direction now with those two picks in the first round and moving down from either 13 or 31 makes a lot of sense because they don't have a pick all the way until the fifth round after the 31st overall selection. And by the way, when it comes to the Colts, I was doing a mock draft yesterday after the dust sort of settled. And I think the 49ers are pretty well done when it comes to free agency until that second wave hits and they get some bargain free agents potentially and maybe at the defensive tackle position but with the Colts and they have those two second round picks I'm not so sure the

Colts aren't going to actually be selecting still in round one and who knows maybe the 49ers and Colts had some conversations and the Colts could potentially move up with say pick 44 and their third round selection, get back into the first round at the 49ers 31 spot and maybe do something that they still want to do at the end of round one and still keep pick 34. That's exactly what I thought, Brian. I'm glad you brought that up, honestly, because we've been pounding the table here on this podcast is about the Colts really addressing quarterback early. And a guy like without the Domino's are falling now, thought brian tampa bay is getting tom brady all of a sudden and then that's going to take them off the quarterback market i imagine at 14 the raiders

sticking with derrick carr there the panthers going teddy bridgewater the chargers who knows what happens there at six they could still go justin herbert or maybe they stick a tyra taylor there it makes you think maybe a guy jordan love or justin herbert slips down the board here maybe a guy jordan love is available at 31 for them and maybe they already know they could probably get them in that late first, get that fifth year option trade back up for him. Like you mentioned, like a 44 for 75 for 31 does make an awful lot of sense if that scenario

does play out. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the exact trade I was looking at when I was doing a mock draft and I was thinking, man, that makes a lot of sense. Whether it's quarterback Jordan Love falling, maybe one of the wide receivers say that the Colts liked at 13. They want to get into the next tier of wide receivers, but they could maybe get the similar player at 34.

Maybe there's two guys that they want to get at 31 and 34, or even, you know, if they wanted to go up way ahead where the 49ers are, if you have picked 34, you're, you're just outside of the first round. The Colts could really get up not as high as they want, but they could get up into the late teens or 20s fairly easily with the draft capital they have. So it's a great place for the Colts to be. And when you still have that much draft capital,

you can still be mobile on draft day, and you can still trade a first rounder to get the type of player and human being that they got in DeForest Buckner. I think it's a good trade and really a win-win because I talked about how it was a win for the 49ers just because they didn't have to pay $21 million for a defensive tackle and they got a pick in the top half and a premium first round pick for it. That doesn't mean it's not also a win for the Colts. Yeah, I definitely agree with you. I think it's a win-win the more I've thought about it because the price at first I thought was pretty hefty for DeForest Buckner, but diving in

more to his tape and just hearing the kind of person he is in the locker room, Chris Buckner, so much about character, it's like DeForest Buckner's going to come in straight away and be an impact guy not only in the locker room but on the field as well. But I have a few more questions for you, Brian, before I let you go. And just from an outsider's perspective here, what's been your opinion of what the Colts have been doing so far? You get DeForest Buckner, like you mentioned, on a trade, number 13 overall. You go out and sign Phillip Bruce to replace Jacob Abramson on a one-year $25 million deal.

It seems to me like they're going for it this year, Brian. They're going to try to push the chips in a little bit. They've used a lot of their money. Chris Bauer usually never does this. Go out and get not only Buckner paying big money, but Phillip Bruce for $25 million for one year. Maybe they're trying to get Rivers that ring, but also get the Colts that ring.

So what's your thoughts from an outsider's point of view here? What's going on here? Yeah, it's a couple of things. And first, that's what really made me think about the Colts potentially moving back up into the first round on draft day because it seems like they're going for it. And if you go bring in a veteran quarterback like Phillip Rivers, it tells me two things. they're going for it. And if you go bring in a veteran quarterback like Phillip Rivers, it tells me two things.

You're going for it now and you believe that he makes a clear difference over the guy you already had at quarterback in Jacoby Brissett. And so going and getting maybe the future quarterback there, it would seem to me that Jacoby Brissett is the obvious big loser here. And who knows, maybe they're able to work out a deal and send him back to New England where he came from because the Patriots still need to figure some things out at quarterback now but I like what the Colts are doing I liked the Colts last year I thought they were slightly disappointing I expected more from them and I feel like they felt the same which is why you're seeing

them be really proactive going out and getting a quarterback going out and trading for a stud defensive player to make sure they get over the top and make sure they're not feeling like they left anything on the table in 2020 like they did in 2019. So I like the direction for the Colts. I think they have a lot going for them and a lot of talent on the team. Maybe a couple pieces, a future quarterback, maybe a wide receiver to help out Phillip Rivers, which Jacoby Brissett will be saying to himself, well, where were these extra pieces for me last year? That would have helped me as well. But I do like the way Chris Ballard,

and I like the direction of the Colts right now for sure. What do you think the upside is? Just closing in a little bit on Buckner here, Brian. You throw him in now, presumably as the three techniques of this Colts defense. We've discussed the impact he's going to have on guys like Justin Houston and Darius Leonard, but the Colts are an average, maybe slightly below average defense, especially in the second half of last year.

So if you throw DeForest Buckner into the mix with an elite linebacker like Darius Leonard, a young secondary featuring Malik Hooker and Rakia Sen, takes a little less pressure off of them. What do you think the upside is for this Colts defense next year, especially when you throw in veterans like Justin Houston as well? Yeah, and obviously all those guys staying healthy is a big key, but I think the thing that you, that happens when you add DeForest Buckner to that mix is like you mentioned more pressure on the quarterback.

The opposing quarterback is, is the thing you have to stop in the NFL. So you're getting more pressure on the quarterback because DeForest Buckner is a player who on his own can get you 12 sacks in a season and numerous other quarterback hits and quarterback pressures and tipping the ball with his height at the line of scrimmage. And then that helps the other guys get pressure. And then if there's more pressure, that means there's more turnovers on the back end.

And I love Hooker's range and his ability to go get the ball. I expect that to spike and you see him getting a ton of takeaways and you just reduce how much time the guys on the back end have to cover and and i just think that all those things come together and when you're running a tampa two style defense you're right that pressure from the inside is so key and getting pressure from everywhere along your front four is important so everybody else on the back end those zones close up quicker and they have less time that they have to cover guys. And that's where I think I see the, the,

and we saw it with the 49ers last year, they, they set a record for the fewest takeaways on defense in 2018. And that was with the forest Buckner still getting 12 sacks. And they were like, you know what, this is not going to work because we need pressure from the outside too. So when you get all four of those defensive linemen rushing in unison and

putting pressure on the quarterback, you saw the big leap forward. the 49ers defense took in 2019. And I think the Colts have that in place and can take a big leap on the back end. Last question I have for you, Brian. Appreciate your time as always. The character, we mentioned it multiple times on the show, but Chris Vow and the Colts really have emphasized that ever since he stepped into the building from day one.

They're going to build a team full of high-character guys, and if you're committing this amount of resources to DeForest Buckner, $21 million annually for the next four to five years, and you're trying to first-round pick for him, it seems like he fits every box as far as not only on the field but off the field in the locker room. Can you speak a little bit more just for the Colts fans out there wondering about what DeForest Buckner is not only as a player but as a person?

It seems like if the Colts are this comfortable committing this amount of resources to DeForest Buckner is, not only as a player, but as a person. It seemed like if the Colts are this comfortable to me and this amount of resources to DeForest Buckner, he is the Colts character guy that they probably always wanted on the defensive side. Yeah, and I think consistency and being able to – well, one of the things that you see, and players will let you know, in this day and age of social media, there was just an outpouring, and his teammates were like, oh, man. Players that will benefit from him leaving because they'll get more playing time were like, man, I can't believe Buckner's leaving. I'm going to miss this guy.

I'm going to miss this dude. He helped me so much. He taught me so much, and he's still only 25 years old going into his year 26 season. So how much his teammates liked him was key, and I think for a fan and for especially, especially a coach is that you can, I mean, there's been nobody more consistent for the 49ers. I talked about his snap count. He doesn't ever,

it seems like he never has to come off the field. He's consistent day in and day out as a worker. He's consistent in the locker room. He's a really humble guy. He's pretty quiet. He's not like one of those vocal leader, Rob, Rob types. He just is someone you can count on. He's going to come to work every day. He's going to humble guy. He's pretty quiet. He's not like one of those vocal leader rah-rah types. He's just someone you can count on. He's going to come to work every day. He's going to play hard every down. He's going to be out there when it matters, and you can count on him.

He's consistent, I think, is the number one thing I would say about DeForest Buckner. You guys can follow Brian on Twitter at BDPeacock. He's the host of Locked On 49ers and the Locked On Podcast Network. Appreciate the time, as always, man. And we would have thought DeForest Buckner would be on the move, and the Colts would be the 49ers, kind of Locked On Podcast Network. Appreciate the time as always, man. And I would have thought DeForest Buckner would be on the move and the Colts would be the 49ers been making those trades.

Appreciate the time. Yeah, it's wild, man. DeForest Buckner has moved on and I know it hurts a lot of 49ers fans, but it'll help, especially if the 49ers actually hit on that number 13 overall pick. And yeah, good luck to the Colts.

It's going to be a fun team to watch next year for sure.