Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 3/21/19: The Draft Network's Joe Marino on the 2019 NFL Draft

Episode Date: March 21, 2019

On today's episode of Locked On Colts, Joe Marino of TheDraftNetwork.com joins to discuss all the latest news surrounding the upcoming NFL draft. We hit on various prospects, and plenty that Colts fans should be interested in as well: D.K Metcalf, N'Keal Harry, Kelvin Harmon, Hakeem Butler, Christian Wilkins, Clelin Ferrell, Amani Oruwariye, Justin Layne, Greedy Williams.Plus, what are the other main headlines draft fans should be following along with as we get closer to Round 1 in Nashville next month? All of that, plus much more, in today's show so don't miss out! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're welcoming a Locked On Colts part of Locked On Podcast Network. Today's host is Evan Sider, enjoyed by a very special guest today, Joe Marino of TheDraftNetwork.com. Joe, how are you doing today? Hey, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, no problem at all. No problem at all. I'm glad to have you on. I know it's been work for the past few days. Let's dive right into it here, Joe. The draft is slowly creeping up on us here. It's the end of next month here.

I know the Indianapolis Colts have a lot of interesting needs here. We're just going to talk about a few prospects on today's show. I just want to run down a list here of your top 200, Joe. There's probably some updates here since the Combine, but I think the most polarizing prospect here, I just want to run down your list,

just DK Metcalf. It seems like an enigma since the Combine runs up 4-3. Also, this three-cone was pretty terrible too. It was worse than Tom Brady. What was your overall thoughts on DK Metcalf and also just how he's going

to translate the NFL for the Combine? I love DK Metcalf. I think he's fourth or fifth on my board right now overall at anycalf I think he's uh fourth or fifth on my on my board right now um overall at any position I think he's a special football player I think it's so it's so weird to me how people have allowed a a three cone and short shuttle drill uh really cloudy their opinion of Metcalf who was absolutely absolutely unbelievable and rare in literally every other test. And when you watch his tape, you see a guy that just has tremendous play speed,

tremendous ability in his release, knows how to beat press coverage, has acceleration in size that just most cornerbacks can't deal with. And maybe he isn't the most smooth or sudden in and out of his breaks as his agility tests would indicate. But the reality is receivers, they come in all different shapes and sizes with different strengths and weaknesses. Think about a guy like Julio Jones. He wins very much differently than the way Julian Edelman wins. And the way that Adrian Green wins is very different than the way Adam Humphries wins. And Mike Evans is different than Calvin Ridley.

And so I think there's a real lost element of creativity and understanding of finding about what a player can do and using that to their advantage. And if you can get Metcalf on a linear plane with his route running, give him chances to win after the catch, you are going to have a problem for NFL defenses. Guy that is just not going to be a guy that most cornerbacks will even have the physical traits to match up with. And so, yeah, you need to use him correctly. But if you use him correctly, you have a guy that can be one of the most dominant offensive playmakers in the NFL. Joe, would you put him on that same tier as a college version of a Julio or a Calvin Johnson?

I think where that gets difficult for me is that Julio and Calvin Johnson, they didn't have quite the injury concerns. I mean, DK's had two of the last three years he's had a season-ending injury with a foot injury and then a neck injury. And, you know, there's a bigger leap. There's a bigger step forward for DK because he comes from this Ole Miss offense where he pretty much ran, I don't know, maybe three or four routes. He always lined up in the same exact position as the left boundary receiver, and I think there's an acclimation period ahead for him

that is going to take a little bit of time. Not to say that there isn't ways that he can win and find success right away, but I just feel like there's a little less polish on him compared to, you know, Julio and Calvin Johnson. And, you know, I mean, I think that he has a similar feeling for sure. But, I mean, those are different level of prospects when you think about the overall, you know, where they were going into the league. Yeah, absolutely.

Those two guys are just freaks of talent, especially if you add DK Metcalf into there. That's a really good list to be a part of, Joe. But let's go over a couple more prospects here. They're from the same school as well. Christian Wilkins, Cleldon Farrell, Dexter Lawrence. They're all from Clemson and had their pro day a couple days ago. I'm looking at your big board here as well. You have Farrell and Wilkins inside your top 15.

What stands out specifically about Wilkins and Farrell? Because from the Colts' point of view, they still need to get a couple guys on the defensive line. What stands out about those two guys from Clemson? Well, for Wilkins, I mean, you just look at a guy that's insanely accomplished for what he's been able to do both academically and on the football field with Clemson. I think when you look at the overall landscape of why Clemson has had the dynasty that it's had of late, you look at two players, Deshaun Watson and Christian Wilkins, foundational type guys that have really been culture changers, along with what, you know, Dabo Swinney's been able to do and Wilkins really gives you an exciting interior penetrator and you know how important that is in the NFL right now

guys that can get pressure in the face of the quarterback guys that can disrupt immediately against the run you get that from Christian Wilkins and you know he's proven I don't think there's any guesswork I think you know exactly what you're getting in Christian Wilkins and you know just a super high football character guy I mean he's a senior at Clemson, one of the most accomplished players that's ever walked through the building, and he's on the field goal team. He's on the punt team as a senior, and he loves it. I mean, when Clemson's going to take a field goal, that dude's the first one sprinting on the field every time, and I think that there's just something about that that you love. You don't have any questions. This guy loves football and he's going to be a foundational piece of an NFL

roster. Now Farrell, I like a ton too. Long, technically refined pass rusher, really good run defender, gap savvy guy, knows how to use his hands. There's some concessions there in terms of bend, a flexibility bend and burst, but I really like his ability to win with technique and power. You know, I think he's, he's behind some of the more dynamic rushers in this class, like a Bosa or a Burns or a Josh Allen. But if you,

if you're, you know, I think the Colts are probably in a really good spot. If Farrell was going to be an edge rusher that they were going to target, because I think he realistically could be available. Again, not the dynamic athlete, but really, really technical. Yeah, I love the Claude Farrell possibility for the Annapolis Colts as well. I think he'd make a really good choice at 26.

But interesting little draft question for you as well, Joe. How do you go about grading your edge prospects just over the past few years, just the debate between overall production versus traits. I know we're kind of seeing that debate this year with a guy like Rashawn Gary, but how do you go about just going comparing toe-to-toe between traits and production on tape? Well, I mean, I'll make this specific about edge, but it's really a similar process that I do for all positions. I do a numerical scoring system where I take every single relevant aspect of an evaluation and I apply a weighted grade to it. And so 80% of any player's overall grade is their film. And within the film, there's nine different traits that I look for in grades specifically that are weighted in the order of importance on the overall 80% film score.

Now, the other 20% of the grade is made up of production, made up of athletic testing, measurables in terms of size, and production. And so what I love about my process, if you will, is I take every single piece of the evaluation and I apply it exactly the same to every single player. So I don't count anything twice. I don't over-evaluate something and let it impact an evaluation too much because the consistency of what I do is it's applied the same to every single player. So we're talking about production and it's 5% of their overall grade. Whether you have the,

the most you can do is get that full 5% or half of it. You know what I mean? It's never, it's never that exaggerated. So for me, it's just about having coming, having created a methodology that applies even criteria consistently to every single player at every position to give me, to get rid of the bias and apply everything the same.

Yeah, that's a really great way to look at it, Joe. And I know the Draft Network has done a really great job really diving in on all these prospects. But just an overall draft question for you as well, just looking at this elite class this year as far as defensive prospects, most of your top 20, top 50 is made up of the defensive guys. How do you compare this class to last year? Because it just seems like from top to bottom, especially in the top half of this draft too, this is one of the better defensive classes I've seen in a while.

That's a good question. I think defensively where it's really different is we don't have anywhere near the caliber of linebacker prospects. I mean, if you're going to get an off-ball linebacker, you better get Devin Bush or Devin White because the drop-off is deep. Where last year, what do we have? Five first-round linebackers. I mean, even Leonard went early too. I mean, six really high-quality guys. Fred Warner was good. I mean, there was like seven, eight really good linebacker prospects last year, where this year I only feel really comfortable with two. Now, that doesn't's not draft worthy guys or day two or day three guys but when you project real like immediate impact guy there's only really two of them that I like I think last year's safety class was better at the top I like the depth of this year's safety class but I mean last year

we're talking about you know Derwin James and uh and Jesse Bates Justin Reed guys that I really love I don't think there's that top tier type safety prospects Minka Fitzpatrick as well James and Jesse Bates and Justin Reed, guys that I really love. I don't think there's that top tier type safety prospects. Minka Fitzpatrick as well. But I do think this year does have a big leg up when it comes to the defensive ends and defensive tackles. How do you go about just thinking about the prospects? Like a guy like Kyler Murray, before we go into more cold center questions here, Joe, I live out in Arizona right now. Kyler Murray is a talk of the town right now with a guy like Josh Rosen, too.

Is it rare that you ever see a team possibly replace a quarterback that they took in the top 10 less than a year later? Because it just seems like with what Cliff Kingsbury is looking for here with a guy like Kyler Murray, it just makes too much sense. How do you go about reading that situation here in Arizona? Well, I mean, you mentioned the rarity of a team taking a quarterback back-to-back years in the top ten. It's also a rarity for a team to hire a coach like Cliff Kingsbury, who was a failed college coach at his alma mater, and giving him the reins to an NFL franchise that needs a massive overhaul

in terms of culture and roster talent. So, I mean, it's a really unique situation in Arizona. And here's what I'll say. I love Josh Rosen. Josh Rosen was my number one quarterback last year. I had two first-round grades on quarterbacks last year, Josh Rosen and Baker Mayfield. And when I think about what Arizona's gone through here,

they fired Steve Wilks after one season. And while I never am really a fan of that just in general, to me the best thing you can do is if you've made a mistake, to move on. And the worst thing you can do is cling to a mistake. And if Arizona's now spent a year with Josh Rosen and they realize hey you know what this isn't going to happen with him there's just there's personality issues there's things that we don't like about him he didn't win the locker room over and we can try to to see if this will get better or change or hey we believe in this guy and let's run with it now the challenging thing for Arizona is they have to pick a course eventually here and stick with it. They can't just keep switching coaches and

quarterbacks. But, you know, I think if I was going to find the silver lining, if this all does come together and I don't have any inside information, I'm not going to pretend like I know that Josh Rosen hasn't lost the locker room or that they don't believe in him. But to me, the reality comes down to if Josh Rosen's a mistake, don't sit there and hang on to it. If you believe in Kyler, it's too important of a position to pass up on. I agree. I think it's going to be really interesting to follow that situation,

especially because I think it just could really change that franchise if they move on from a guy like Josh Rosen and immediately go get a guy like Kyler Murray instead, number one overall. But let's dive into our cold center questions here, Joe. And I just want to ask you off the top, what's your outside opinions of a guy like Chris Ballard? Because he seems to be doing it the opposite way than most GMs, voting through the draft mostly, not really spending his money,

being very conservative in that route. What's your thoughts on a guy like Chris Ballard from the outside looking in? I thought Chris Ballard – okay, I'll just be honest with you. I thought early on there was a little bit too much hype about Chris Ballard, I'll be honest, okay, I'll just be honest with you. I thought early on, there was a little bit too much hype about Chris Ballard. I'm like, you know, I don't,

I don't, you know, I'm going to, I kind of want everyone to prove themselves to me before I start like really piling on and saying, Hey, this guy knows what he's doing. And I didn't love his first draft to be honest with you.

But then last year was really a game changer and how much he's done to add talent last year but also at the same time set them up to continue adding talent this year and and so like there were picks that I questioned at the time I never questioned Quentin Nelson at all I mean he was the number one player on my board last year that wasn't hard but uh you know I I wasn't a fan right away of guys like Darius Leonard because I thought he was going to take more time to acclimate. I wasn't a big fan of Braden Smith because I thought he was a guy that needed to figure out what position he was going to play and he was going to need some time.

But, I mean, lo and behold, Indy gets immediate starters out of both of those guys. Kamoko Toure provides some value. And I just feel like he's winning me over every single day. Now, to me, I just, I was a little more cautious to jump on and really pump up Chris Ballard, but he's really set this team up very well. And I think, you know, beyond the success, the success that Indy enjoyed last year was, had a lot to do with Chris Ballard. Let's not pretend like Andrew Luck didn't come back

and refine himself at quarterback and that Frank Reich wasn't absolutely the right man for that job from the outset so I think you can we can praise Chris Ballard he deserves it but let's not forget about Frank Reich and you know Andrew Luck obviously in this mix yeah it seems like a lot of people did forget about Andrew Luck last year before we go into some more draft questions with the Colts what's your thoughts on Andrew Luck too because I mean I feel like he's in he's on pace for his career year next year, have another year in Frank Reich's system, also having the best offensive line in the NFL. What do you think about the way that they're building around Andrew Luckett right now?

Well, I want to see him get a little bit more in terms of weapons. I certainly hope that Devin Funchess isn't the big answer at wide receiver. I know they got him for like one year of $13 million, but I was looking for something a little more dynamic opposite of T.Y. Hilton. And, you know, I feel like maybe that could come in the draft. There's going to be some options if they want to get a Calvin Armand or maybe a Keem Butler type player there, maybe at the end of the first round, they can do that. But I would have liked to see more in the way of dynamic receivers because Funchess is a guy that I just don't trust.

I mean, you look at Carolina last year, it's a contract year for him. You're expecting the best version of Devin Funchess that you could possibly get. And he literally, the last eight games of the season was a non-factor, and Carolina went away from him. And so, you know, I don't necessarily love him as your answer there as a weapon. I like the running back situation. Obviously, the offensive line situation is really, really good.

And I love, you know, Frank Reich. I think he deserves a lot of credit for what happened in Philadelphia as well. I know that there was a lot of hands in the jar there with DeFilippo and Peterson, but the reality is, I mean, Frank Reich was a big part of that team and using that personnel correctly. So I love the entire Colts coaching staff's ability to really get, I thought they got so many guys that they overachieved with last year, and that's just a testament to great coaching because, I mean, there are so many examples, but specifically when you think about luck and how they're building around, back to your question, I mean, there are so many examples. But, you know, specifically when you think about luck and how they're building around, back to your question,

I want to see a little bit more investment made there to give him, you know, a receiver that I'm a little more comfortable with than Devin Funches. Yeah, I think if they could get a guy in the draft at 26-34 to eventually replace a guy like Devin Funches next year, I think it makes an awful lot of sense to me. You mentioned Kelvin Harmon there as top receiver on your board here, 22 behind a guy DK neck cap. But we also have Nikhil Harry.

We also have Hakeem Butler as well at 30 and 31 on your board. What separates those three receivers, especially a guy like Kelvin Harmon, who's about eight or nine spots ahead of guys like Harry and Butler? I'll be honest. That's a really, really difficult part of what I do. These are the moments where I'm even more thankful for having a numerical scoring system so I don't have to sit there and say, ah, which one do I like better? Well, no, I've applied the same criteria consistently to all three,

and it spits out which one has the higher grade. You know, I think when I think about Butler, Harry, and Harmon, I'm most comfortable with Harmon's hands. I think he's the most consistent guy at the catch point in terms of winning with body positioning, tracking, and consistency plucking the football. Now, Butler gives you insane size athleticism combination, but there is variance at the catch point. I think he had 13 drops last year. I mean, there are just times where you're like, dude, catch the freaking ball, like concentration drops.

And so that's something that I don't love. But he's really smooth. I mean, for a guy his size, I mean, that dude can really move and really get in and out of breaks at a level you don't really expect. Now, Harry's the guy that I thought he was definitely on the outside looking in when I was stacking up those guys, but he tested way better than I thought at the combine. Now, part of the concern is when you have a guy that tests better at the combine than you saw on tape,

is that why didn't you see that on tape? Like, where was that athleticism on tape all the time? And I think that I don't necessarily love the system either there for Arizona State, and I think there's a big jump for Harry. So he's probably going to be my third of that group. But for me, I just – I think that Harmon might not be the most explosive, obviously, compared to the testing. But I think he's more detailed as a route runner,

and I think his hands are the most consistent. I agree. I think their rankings are pretty spot on here. I think Nikhil Harry could be a guy who rises up a little bit if he can do better in his pro days and his workouts coming up. But I think a guy like Nikhil Harry makes a lot of sense for the Colts at 26. Maybe even a guy like Kelvin Harmon who's there at 26 as well. But let's go across the field here to the other position at cornerback.

Who makes a lot of sense in the 20s to 30s range? If you're a guy like Chris Ballard, the knee in the other corner, I think opposite Pierre Desir and Quincy Wilson. Who are some DBs that I think Colts fans should keep an eye on? You know, this cornerback discussion this year is so interesting because one thing we know about the NFL is they love to draft defensive backs. But, you know, gauging the valuation of these guys is challenging because, you know, there's no – to me there's no Denzel Ward, Jair Alexander type

bonafide first-round guy. I loved those guys last year. I don't have anyone near those guys this year. You know, the Colts could be in the sweet spot there at the end of the first round to get a corner. And some of the names that pop to mind are like Justin Lane from Michigan State, former wide receiver, really physical, really good ball skills. Armani Oruarie from Penn State, tremendous size and body control,

some variance in terms of being able to mirror with consistency and man coverage. You know, I'm not a DeAndre Baker guy. I wouldn't think about him at all in the top 50. Not necessarily that he has bad tape, but I've been told multiple times from multiple sources that there are just attitude and work ethic questions there that, you know, a team like the Colts that, necessarily that he has bad tape but I've been told multiple times from multiple sources that there are just attitude and work ethic questions there that you know a team like the Colts that you know I know they had a lot of success last year but in a lot of ways they're still building this roster and really trying to get the right talent I just I don't feel like that would be a

worthwhile investment there and you know I just it's it's I'm not sure that you're going to get a feel at corner there. You know, so I just – this year's corner class really lacks the star power, and that kind of pushes up some of the guys that would be better suited as day two guys into the first round. And so I just don't know that you're going to get the best value unless you're really kind of just saying, hey, we got to get a corner here. Yeah, I think that's an interesting point you bring up there. Maybe a guy like Greedy Williams, too, if he's on the board, makes some sense.

But who are some other names as far as defense goes in this draft? Because like we talked about at the beginning of the show, it's just such an elite class at the top of this draft. But off the Colts for a second here before we end today's show, just a couple rapid-fire questions for you, Joe. How do you compare a guy like Nick Bosa compared to his brother, Joey Bosa? I've seen that thrown around a little bit, but if he's not the number one overall pick by the Arizona Cardinals,

I think there's no way he drops past San Francisco. But how do you view the top overall prospect on your board, Nick Bosa? Compared to Joey, I think – or Nick and Joey, I think – I mean, they're very similar. I think that's – we have to acknowledge that right off the bat. So trying to find differences is not that easy. I think if there's one thing I think Joey has, I think he's a little more polished with his hand usage. And if I think there's anything Nick has, is that he is a little more smooth and a little bit more flexible when he's cornering.

And so really, I mean, both elite high-level prospects, very similar. That's where I would give each one the leg up. Yeah, I think it's really interesting, those two guys, the Bosa brothers. I think they're both going to be elite prospects in the NFL, just because when you see the production that Joey's had, I think it's going to match that eventually or even exceed that in pretty short order. But before we end today's show, Joe, I appreciate the time as always. I appreciate it. But before we go, let's plug the draftnetwork.com for people that don't know about it. Where can they find the draftnetwork.com? Where can they find your work and the rest of your

staff's work at? Yeah, thanks so much. Draftnetwork.com is the place where all my written work is um we've got a great team over there of guys that when we we do draft 365 and we we have a pretty aggressive content plan so you're probably not gonna go you're not ever gonna go there without finding three or five new pieces of content for you to read and we're not talking slapstick stuff with 100 words i mean we're we're giving deep dives on scenarios and prospects and all that type of stuff. And really excited about our interactive features at the draft network. You can go on there right now. And we have two tools that I think are amazing.

We have build your own big board. So you can go. And you can go from our database of prospects. And you can make your own big board. You can make it as many names as you want or as few. You can do 500 names. You can do 25 names. And you can build your own big board. You can make it as many names as you want or as few. You can do 500 names, you can do 25 names, and you can build your own big board. You can shuffle your rankings, save it, update it out however you want. And then we also have a mock draft machine. So if you're

a Colts fan and you want to put yourself in Chris Ballard's shoes and make the pick, you can do that on our mock draft machine, which is a simulator. You can pick for as many or as few teams as you want. So if you want to control just the Colts and have the rest of the draft simulated by using our algorithm that takes into account team needs and players available, you can do that. And you can put yourself in those shoes and make those picks. You can control multiple teams, and you can share those mock drafts and save them and do all kinds of fun stuff.

So, yeah, come for the written content and stay for the interactive features and certainly appreciate anyone who wants to come over and give us a look. Hey, Joe, this is a really fun 20-or-so-minute conversation. Appreciate it. As always, we're only about five weeks away from the draft, so it's coming pretty fast. I hope you enjoy it, and I'm looking forward to your coverage on the draftnetwork.com.