Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 3/26/20: How Buckner + Rivers moves elevate Colts' roster, Tom Brady reportedly wanted Indy

Episode Date: March 26, 2020

On today's episode, Locked On NFL's Matt Williamson stops by to go over all things Colts. First up, we have to start with the DeForest Buckner and Philip Rivers moves. How will this impact Indy in 2020, and what's the ceiling now for their offense and defense?Tom Brady reportedly wanted to come to Indy, or at least he was seriously considering it, per reports. Did the Colts make the right decision going Rivers for 1-year over a multi-year pact with Brady?Finally, we close out the show talking through the remaining needs for Indy. How will they address their issues in the draft? Also, we quickly hit on Jalen Hurts and why he's not a snug fit as the Colts' future QB if drafted. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everybody, welcome back into your latest episode of Locked on Colts, pretty locked on podcast network. Today's audience is Evan Sedgwick, I'm joined by a very special guest on today's show, Locked on NFL's host, Matt Williamson. How you doing, Matt? I'm great, Evan, it's great to join you. And Colts are a really interesting team, so let's dig right in, man. Much to discuss. Yeah, thankfully you had me on with you and Brian Peacock, Locked on NFL,

early last week. I know our listeners had a chance to listen to that earlier this week themselves. But I have you back on here on the show for our audience to talk more about the Colts offseason. And let's start off with, Matt, your thoughts a little bit, diving deep into DeForest Buckner and Phillip Rivers. Those two moves combined together here, Matt, how much does that raise the Colts to make for 2020? It's funny because I was an Indy, and it didn't matter I was an Indy. I mean, it just so happens that's the home team raise the Colts for 2020? It's funny because I was at Indy and it didn't matter. I was an Indy.

I mean, just so happens that's the home team of the Colts, but I had some Colts people that were pretty dialed in telling me, Hey, this river thing's going to happen. I'm talking about I was there for the combine and then their next priority. They think rivers is a done deal, even going back to the combine. And their next priority was time to boost the pass rush. And it kind of reminded me of the Peyton Manning era. You know, like we're pretty set on offense.

We play in the dome. We need to affect other passing games in a big way. And I thought it would be more of an edge presence, but they have some decent edge guys already. I didn't see the DeForest Buckner trade coming. And it's kind of been a slow build, a lot of second-round picks, a lot of quality additions building block after building block and then they go all in on a guy like him I love it I mean I

think he's we'll get the rivers in a minute but I think Buckner is a phenomenal player I think a lot of my listeners and probably not as many of yours anymore don't realize that he's probably a top 10 defensive player in the league, and maybe his best football's in front of him, highly versatile, affects all phases of the game, again, ascending, but yeah, you gave up a lot for him, but boy, I think he's going to make a massive impact. Rivers, I'm not sure about. You know, I have defended Rivers through the majority of his career and have gone so far to say he might be the least or the most underappreciated or, you know, quarterback of this generation. You know, that I felt for him for many years with the Chargers. I know he played with Gates and Tomlinson, some great players, but that organization as a whole leaves a lot to be desired in terms of handling special teams year after year, building him an offensive line. And I bet he's looking at the Chargers now going, oh, now you're going to go get some offensive linemen. Where was that the last five years?

So he's had to do more on his own than I think some imagine. But last year, that bit him. I mean, it was a lot of forced decisions. There was a lot of forcing the ball where it shouldn't go. I think he's a little bit of a declining passer and athlete and wasn't a great athlete to begin with. So I don't know that that's going to be a raging success. But I'm also a Brissette fan.

But what Rivers has that Brissette definitely doesn't yet is his ability pre-snap, coming to the huddle, identifying blitzes, knowing where to go with the hot route. And maybe even more so that I'm not sure Brissette will ever have is Rivers is much more of an anticipatory passer. You know, Brissette is a guy gets open, I see it, ball comes out, boom, and put it on him. Where Rivers is a click before that. The guy's starting to come open or about to make a break. The ball's already out.

Now it's on you. So I think that in itself and his ability to dump it to running backs and the flats and things like that will pay off. I just worry about the mistakes and the hero ball a little bit. On DeForest Buckner here, Matt, where would you rank him? I know you mentioned him in the top ten probably for defensive players in the NFL. Is he on that tier?

I know Aaron Donaldson put a different stress for him and he lost a bunch of tackle. But is he on that Chris Jones type of tier, like he's right below Aaron Donaldson put a different stress for now and he lost a bunch of tackle, but is he on that Chris Jones type of tier? Like he's right below Aaron Donaldson. I would say, I mean, just in terms of guys that play that position or are mostly interior linemen, I prefer Chris Jones. I prefer Fletcher Cox, although I'm starting to see a little, you know, chink in the armor there. But Buckner's on that tier.

You're right. Donald stands alone as the best player in the league probably. And Buckner's in that next tier of defensive linemen. And there's a lot of good ones in the league right now. But he's right there. What does Buckner's addition, Matt, do to the defensive line, specifically guys like Justin Houston? And talk about Danico Autry had a really good year.

The year prior had a really bad year last year. But Kamoko Touré, they have a lot of high upside width at the opposite end of just Houston there on the other side there at defensive end. A lot more guys on the comp like Ben Banigou. They drafted number 52 overall last year, so a developmental guy there. I imagine they're not going to be done adding more to the trenches too as we get closer to the draft year, Matt. So how are you liking this front four, this front seven,

if you want to include the linebackers here, Darius Slender, Anthony Walker, and Bobby Okereke? Really a three-year rebuild of this defense. Chris Bauer done, just ripped it all down to the studs, and I feel like the crowning jewel here was getting a guy like Forrest Buckner to finish it off there. Yeah, and with the exception of Houston, kind of like you alluded to, I think their best football is in front of all these guys.

Like I said, a lot of second through fourth round picks that are starting to come into their own. And Buckner will now be the straw that serves the drink. And, you know, the start of your question said something along the lines of how does he affect everybody else? Well, there hasn't been a guy that is going to command double teams or is always, but often is going to win one-on-one matchups against guards tackles alike so I think it has a huge ripple effect you know Houston will see more

one-on-one matchups things like that you probably have to blitz a little less to get pressure home that allows you to drop those active linebackers into coverage even more. And again, I mean, even like the Okarikis and Tarrays, they're all drafted in the same neighborhood for this day. You know, I mean, it's starting to come together and I think it's a really good plan. And I often say that this is one of the better organizations in the league in terms of having a plan, trade out of the first round, pick up that Montez Sweat, you know, early second pick and things like that that don't seem flashy, but they all start to add up when you've got second rounder after second rounder running around on your defense.

Matt, what's your thoughts just overall on the way that Chris Barrett built this team really from the inside out? He got Quentin Mills at six overall a couple of years ago. That's definitely paid off for an entire offensive line. I think he's imagining the same thing that's going to happen here at DeForest Buckner, paying $21 million per year annually. He's just now heading his same thing that's going to happen here at DeForest Buckner, paying him $21 million per year annually. He's just now heading his prime. He's going to help out all these young guys on defense, too.

Do you like the philosophy of Chris Bowers really using going, not extreme, so to say, but really using high blue-chip talent and picks on the trenches here, defensive line, offensive line? Yeah, I do. And, I mean, I think Nelson, who knows? I mean, he was so good. I don't know that you could pass him up. You know what I mean? No matter what your organizational philosophy is, I understand there's other good players there, but it's, it's clear that he does value the big people on both sides of the line. And as a rule of thumb, I believe in that. And I think he owed that to Andrew Luck whenever he took over.

I mean, you remember who the quarterback was at the time, and he had injury concerns and was not a spring chicken anymore and had already taken a beating. And we were seeing awesome results, and then Luck retires. Yeah, that was an unfortunate part of that. And I think now, whether it's Phillip Rivers, Jacoby Brissett, if they draft a quarterback in the next year or two, they're going to have a nice foundation and a trench on both sides of it.

But on Phillip Rivers, Matt, what do you think? Real quick, I apologize for interrupting, but my hunch is with the quarterbacks. I want to get to Rivers. I bet they go with Rivers, Brissett, and don't draft somebody. Do you think that's the plan they'll take, at least for this year? It certainly seems that way after cutting Brian Hoyer, but I would not be opposed to moving up again.

I know Brian Peacock and I were talking about this on the show last week when he came on about, let's say, a quarterback like Jordan Love slips down the boards a little bit to the late mid-20s. A quarterback that's been mentioned in the polls multiple times. I think it makes sense to move up a little bit. If you are going to move up and get your future franchise quarterback, if you start slipping past, let's say, 23, 24, 25, you get a 34 plus a future pick.

I think it makes an awful lot of sense to do that if that scenario happens. But outside of that, I really don't like this quarterback class at all. Honestly, outside of the top four, top five guys, and I think 2021, might as well just kick the can down the road a little bit longer. And that's the kind of move it seems like to me especially pushing the chips and all in the last next two years Matt really with DeForest Buckner I know he's a long-term piece but you get him as well as well as Philip Rivers I think Chris Bauer believes this team is a suitable contender right now yeah I do too that's why I'd prefer that they took a receiver at the earliest second round or

whatever we could talk about team needs down the road here. But I, again, I also still have some hope for Berset that if I were to make that move, if you're to trade up for love, then maybe I'm trading Berset for a pick so I can get another position player for today or a player or something along those lines. But in the end, I'm with you in that. I think that's next year's project. I definitely agree with you there. And you look at Phillip Rivers stepping in now too.

I think the best situation he's been in a very long time, Matt. I think the last time he had a top seven rushing attack, which the Colts were last year, was his second year starting in 2007, which is pretty incredible. So he hasn't had a running attack. His offensive line, like I mentioned before, Matt, has been a turntable, so to say. Just guys rifting in and out.

It's been 30, 40 40 plus sacks every year of river's career almost the defense has been inconsistent even though it has gotten better a lot over the last couple of years this feels like a situation where phil burrows knows his time is coming to the end he's walking up the 18th hole so to say and he sees a team with an offensive line a good running game a great coach he's familiar with an ascending defense he feels like it feels like to me that Rivers thinks this Colts team is probably my best chance to reach my, my ultimate goal of really fulfilling my,

my whole thing dreams of reaching and making a championship run. I would imagine. I mean, I'm sure he's breathing a sigh of relief looking at the line he's playing behind and you mentioned the running game and those are good foundations. I mean, I definitely think he had better weapons with the chargers and the Colts, and that's a conversation that we should have in the next couple of minutes. But I think you're right, and this isn't something you brought up,

but it worries me a lot, including Tom Brady, that quarterbacks going to teams with uncertainty, with new coaches, new coordinators, new schemes, new quarterbacks, whatever, I think are at a massive disadvantage because of the state of the world right now. You know, I mean, they're not going to have the time to install, to get comfortable. I can see a lot of those situations, including Tampa, looking kind of ugly in September during the regular season. And I think the Rivers-Reich combo probably alleviates that a fair amount.

I mean, is he going to be super comfortable with Paris Campbell and Doyle and Hilton and all those guys? Probably not compared to, you know, Rogers and Devontae Adams and, you know, people have been playing together forever. But I do think the system familiarity is key here. And it kind of reflects also like on the Bears. Like going to get Nick Foles wasn't exciting, but he the system and considering where the league is right now that carries a lot of weight to winning games early in the season. Then you also look at at Rivers here like we mentioned

the offensive line the running game the ascending defense the familiar Frank Reich of course Matt but like you mentioned there this isn't done yet they still need to add more around Phillip Rivers what do you think is next for this team because like you mentioned the, this isn't done yet. They still need to add more around Phillip Rivers. What do you think is next for this team? Because like you mentioned, the weapons here from L.A. to Indianapolis is a drop down a little bit. I don't think it's severe, but it really is a drop down. I really believe now. It stands like a sore thumb to me.

I know they just kept here to see our support backs up there, but they desperately need a wire seer chance to why Hilton, man. Yeah, and I think Hilton could be in for a huge year. Like he may be on my fantasy team this year, but I think you can't put all your eggs in that basket. And I know people are down on Bursette, but I felt like there was a portion of last year where his guys just didn't help him. I mean, not only were there some drops and things,

but just the ability to get open at the NFL level, to beat NFL corners consistently. I felt like Hilton was the only guy when right and how often is he right that could consistently do that could they be in the market for a veteran maybe I think that you know certainly adding some sort of weapon and I don't like the tight ends to help you this year in terms of draftable tight ends but maybe that early second round pick is Denzel Mims and he can at least take the top off or I mean there's many Jalen Rager I mean there's

many names you could talk about at the receiver position but you are counting on a really young group of receivers besides Hilton and as talented as that group is it's a little worrisome but here's my big but I mentioned fantasy well I do a lot of dynasty and I host a dynasty podcast called dynasty blueprint and in all my leagues where you keep players forever I've been attacking Paris Campbell like crazy and I really like them coming out of Ohio State I've mentioned several times that I think the Colts are a very smart organization. And I think them not being super aggressive to go get a wide receiver implies to me, especially as much as cap space as they had, implies to me they must like somebody.

And who's most likely that guy? I think it's Paris Campbell. And I think with Paris, he ran a 4-3-1-40 you also added Naeem Hines touching on this in the lock on an NFL show last week Matt but doesn't it feel like those two guys are gonna be the biggest beneficiaries of Rivers arrival absolutely I really think so um I think Matt can be a serviceable receiver too but I think Hines think Danny Woodhead or Ekelar I mean like all those scat backs that Rivers really got the ball to in space I think Hines, think Danny Woodhead or Ekelar. I mean, like all those scat backs that Rivers really got the ball to in space, I think Hines sets up really well for that.

Now moving on here to an interesting topic that was discussed earlier in the week, I believe Mike Florio mentioned it and I also got a little bit more, that the Colts were, or excuse me, that Tom Brady's camp and Tom Brady himself were seriously interested in the Annapolis Colts, but they decided to commit to Phillip Rivers on a one-year deal. Tom Brady, of course, signed up the Buccaneers on a two-year deal, $50 million. Phillip Rivers won your $25 million.

What was your thoughts on that, Matt, when you saw the report? Because it seems like from everything we know with Tom Brady, why he chose Tampa Bay was the weapons. But you have the offensive line in place in Annapolis. You have the running game. You have the defense. Assuming you made that four-spot trade still, if you got Tom Brady, what was your thoughts?

Do you think they made the right choice there going one year, a time-flipper, or is that committing two years to Tom Brady? Because I know Colts fans always do with Tom Brady. It's an ugly relationship in the past with the rivalry they've had, but I feel like it's an interesting question for sure if he would have gone rivers for one year or Brady for two years. Yeah, and i'm not positive either is going to work out to be very honest i mean i'm not positive that my man big

ben's going to come back i mean these aging quarterbacks we're kind of going in uncharted territory and they've all shown signs of age and wear and tear and this game's tough and defense i mean i always talk about you know um what I like about high school girls is they stay the same age I keep getting older and they stay the same age well that's like these quarterbacks defenses stay the same age they don't get old you know and they take a beating so I don't know that Brady Rivers Ben any of these older dudes are going to work out how much longer does Breeze have so I don't know that Rivers versus Brady is drastically different and I'm not avoiding your question but it goes back to that combine conversation I had I think they had sights on Rivers to be honest since day one

Rivers was very happy with it the comfort level with Reich I don't know that they were really involved with Brady I have a hard time believing that. Yeah, I agree with you there. And like you mentioned there, Frank Reich, I think was the X factor here. And we saw before Phillip Rivers put up a career best completion percentage season with Frank Reich as his offensive coordinator. And we also saw him put some good numbers as well as touchdown interception ratio. It went down just a little bit with Frank Reich as his coordinator about six,

seven years ago. But how do you like that fit with Reich and Rivers here before you can move on here to the biggest needs the Colts still need to address in this roster, Matt? Because I feel like this is obviously a Frank Reich dream move. In my opinion, I feel like Chris Bauer probably let Frank Reich make the decision here because he probably was pounding the tail for him, I imagine. So what do you like of the fit between Rivers and Reich in that reunion? Familiarity, like I mentioned. I think that Reich, I don't know this but i hope can reel rivers in

when it's hero ball time and he's trying to you know put the world on his shoulders and uh you know be the the superman out there which he does from time to time and doesn't get away with it as much anymore but i really dislike the scheme of it. I really love how this is going back a couple of years, but I really love how when they met luck, how they didn't know if the line was good yet. So let's get the ball out of your hands faster than any quarterback in the league. And as that season went on, we'll take more shots downfield. You can hold it a little longer as we get to know each other I'll

put more on your plate you give me more feedback I'm trusting this line I did was young I didn't know it was good then so I think you could see a similar relationship back and forth from Rivers and coaching staff like you did with Luck you know meeting the staff for the first time too and it changed and evolved very well. That would certainly be a lot of fun. If they had the ground running, I think they could do a lot of fun things here, Rivers and Reich and that Colts offense.

But we already touched on the biggest need, I think, for this team right now, Matt, and that's wires to go opposite T.Y. Hilton and Paris Campbell. But what other needs do you think make the most sense for this Colts team as we head further into way two, way three, and also the draft less than a month away. I don't see massive needs. I mean, I really think another pass catcher would go a long way and I have hopes for Heinz and Campbell, obviously,

but another dynamic receiver or the ability to develop into a dynamic receiver would interest me for sure. Tight end as well, but that's going to be more developmental as opposed to somebody that helps now, but that's fine. I mean, a third round pick on a tight end makes perfect sense to me. I don't know about you. Do you think they need a power back? You know, like if Dylan's there in the fourth round, does that interest you? I think it might make sense. I think they actually like Jordan Wilkins a lot in that kind of role. We saw last year against Tennessee, he had a few big runs, and then you do watch him tomorrow, and Matt

got worn down a little bit. So I think probably they stick with Jordan Wilkins for this year. I would not be shocked, though, if they went running back early, because they didn't meet with guys like Clyde Edwards, Alair, Cam Akers, Darrington Evans, the Combines. I don't know if it's the reported Combine meeting or actual interest there, but I think it's interesting that they actually met with running backs there. But what do you think about quarterbacks, Matt? Because they cut Pierre Desir surprisingly last week, earlier in this week, and now they have a glaring hole at quarterback one,

unless they trust Rocky Asin that much. Yeah, and I think Rocky Asin had an up-and-down season. I liked him a lot coming out of school, so I'm not going to vary from that too much. I didn't talk defensive needs much but I do think like those two second round picks I think one should be a wide receiver and the other one should either be a high upside defensive front player I mean I don't care if it's a nose tackle body a three technique body a stand-up edge type guy whatever just to get another guy there or a corner you know I mean corner, preferably with length.

I mean, it looks like they want, you know, longer, more physical guys. And it's a pretty good spot to land two of those three things in the second round. I don't know if you dove in much, Matt, to the 2020 quarterback class, but I know Colts fans have been really interested in the quarterback class for a very long time now over the last couple months. And I think trading out 13 takes you way out of the race for guys like Justin Herbert probably Jordan Love I imagine but have you had a chance to look at guys like Jalen Hurts does he make sense to you I know a lot of Colts are now intrigued by him as a possibility I don't love him I see the Dak Prescott comparisons

I understand that he is a leader he's a bulldog he's tough as could be people love playing for him and I think some people have even said well use him like Taysom Hill well I don't think he's quite athletic enough for that you know like Taysom Hill's fast you know I mean to be on the field with Rivers or as a spot player quote as an athlete as you learn I don't know that he's dynamic enough for me to do that to take Paris Campbell off the field or Naheem Hines or whomever and the thing that but more so the thing that worries me most about him he holds the ball a long time I mean you talk about not being an anticipatory thrower he's much worse than Brissette in that regard and he's not super

accurate I mean he holds it holds it guys come open then it comes out you know like that makes me crazy yeah and when you say it like that I definitely don't think he's a good fit for the Colts because anticipatory throwing in that time and we now know if Phillip Rivers is a very important trade that the Colts really prioritize in their pro position but sure before I let you go here Matt I just want to your thoughts on your biggest winners and losers are so far for A&C because I imagine the Colts are on that list and the winners, but I'm curious as to know who the other ones are.

Really like what the Eagles have done. I think Tampa Bay is an obvious one, but I would have said – I've said this on my podcast a lot. I probably would have said Tampa Bay without Brady. I thought that's an ascending team that if they get a quarterback that throws 12 picks instead of 30, they probably win 9 or 10 games last year. And I don't dislike Winston, but, you know, for example, with Tampa Bay, I think they allowed the 28th most points in the league,

but football outsiders had them as their fourth-ranked defense because they were always throwing picks and they're always backed up against the wall. So adding just – subtracting all the mistakes for a team like that really is interesting to me. The Ravens come to mind just because they were so blitz-reliant before and now they've revamped their defensive line. And, oh, by the way, in the process, they now have two seconds, two thirds, two fourths to go with the first you know like they still have a lot of ammo for a 14 and 2 team

wow yeah that does sound like a lot of ammunition there for a team like Baltimore and a team that is on the cusp of doing a lot of big things and that's definitely a Colts competitor for the next very long time because I think this Colts team is building a defense with a divorced partner move to try to stop guys like Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, those mobile quarterbacks. We'll see what happens there. But, Matt, appreciate the time. You can follow Matt on Twitter.

Super quick question for you, and I think I know your answer, and it's probably different than mine with our homerism, and I'm a Steeler guy. Who's the third best team in the AFC? I don't know this for sure. I don't have a strong feeling. I know the top two are, in my opinion. Yeah. I think there's a tier, but do you feel the Colts are third?

It's a tough one because I really believe the Colts are very close to third. I think it's them and Buffalo are three and four to me. I think after that, it's a slight drop to five and six, honestly. But what do you think? Do you think three and four, like Buffalo and the Colts, do you think those are the top two there? I think the Steelers are in that mix, honestly. But what do you think? Do you think three and four, like Buffalo and the Colts, do you think those are the top two there? So I think the Steelers are in that mix too. I mean, again, maybe I have my black and gold colored glasses on.

If the Chargers would go grab Newton or Winston or somebody, I think they could be in that conversation. They always screw things up. Yeah. It really – the dominoes are still falling, as we know it, Matt. Free agency is still going. Cam Newton is a free agent. Tom Brady is a Buccaneer.

The Lakers is a cult somehow in the year 2020. So I appreciate you helping us recap the madness so far this offseason for the Colts, Matt. You guys can follow him on Twitter, at WilliamsonNFL. You guys can listen to his show, like you mentioned, his Dynasty podcast, Dynasty Blueprint, as well as on Locked on NFL, the Locked on NFL show with him and Brian Peacock. Appreciate your time, Matt.

Absolutely. This was fun.