Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 4/15/20: Discussing Colts Draft Scenarios with George Bremer of The Herald Bulletin

Episode Date: April 15, 2020

On today's episode, George Bremer of The Herald Bulletin is back to go in-depth on the 2020 NFL Draft. What could the Colts have up their sleeves on draft night?Bremer believes the Colts could target OT and WR early, but be on the lookout for running back. That's right, we discuss the argument of running back value. Is it worth it to pay Marlon Mack long-term money or draft a replacement like J.K. Dobbins early or Darrynton Evans late?We go over prospects at QB who could intrigue the Colts on Day 3, plus WRs in the 34-44 range. Evan and George run through the whole draft gamut, so you won't want to miss this one! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back into your latest episode of Locked on Colts, probably Locked on Podcast Network. Today's guest is Evan Sutter and my very special guest today's show, George Berman of the Herald Bulletin. George, how are you doing today? Good. How are you doing? Doing great. Appreciate the time as always, George. And our listeners always love when you come on the show here. And I want to get your final thoughts because we're only eight days away from the NFL draft. And it seems like it's dragging on a little bit because this might be the last sporting event for a little bit without what's going on with the coronavirus

but what's your overall thoughts George as we get closer and closer to this draft and we saw the Colts doing free agency here trading for DeForest Buckner signing Phillip Rivers what do you think is the top of priority list for this Colts team as we get closer to this draft I think they're in good shape I think that Chris Ballard, as he usually does, has worked hard to get the roster into a situation where he doesn't have to force anything. You know, there are definitely some holes. Wide receiver is one that they're going to have to go out and fill.

I think tight end is a spot they really haven't looked at much that they're going to have to address. I think it just makes sense that they'll probably be a little bit more of an offensive focus simply because you saw free agency really focused on the defensive side of the ball. So, you know, I think there, those are some guesses that we can make, but I think they put themselves in a good situation in that. I don't know that they're, they're cornered. You know,

I don't know if they're in a situation where they have to take somebody at 34, fill a specific position there. Receiver is the biggest need. I think that's going to get taken somewhere in this draft. But it's also the deepest position in this draft. So I think they can be very value-minded, very best player available-minded, and I think that's how they want to go into every draft. I know the odds makers have wide receiver as the top spot for the Colts if they were going to address that at 34.

I don't know if you had a chance to really dive in yet, George, and watch all the players here in this round two range, but any guys to you who stood out to you over the past month or so while looking at these draft prospects who make sense for this Colts team wide receiver in that second round? I think the really good news for the Colts is that this feels like it's a pretty good draft in terms of that big body type of receiver they've been looking for for so long, have been unable to really fill that spot. A guy like Denzel Mims from Baylor really seems to fit that mold. He's also, guys, made a lot of contested catches. I think I read somewhere 20 of them just last year alone. That's obviously a

fit with Phillip Rivers that would be nice, something that they really don't have on the roster right now. But he's far from the only guy who fits that kind of criteria. A lot of these guys are kind of first or second round guys. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. But Justin Jefferson from LSU, I think you put him on that list of big receivers, physical guys. They could be looking at T. Higgins from Clemson, I think, fits that kind of stereotype. Chase Claypool out of Notre Dame.

I know a lot of guys locally, a lot of fans would love to see him come here. I think it's a long list of kind of big-bodied receivers. Jalen Rager out of TCU. His dad, of course, Monte, played with the Colts, was on the Super Bowl championship team. I think there would be a lot of interest within the fan base in him. But, you know, I think there's even guys beyond that later in the draft that could fit this kind of a profile.

And I think that's really good news for the Colts because if there's only one or two guys that you're choosing from, you always have that butterfly in the pit of your stomach. Will they make it here? There should be at least one or two of those guys available at 34, probably again at 44, and maybe even in the third round. George, is it fair to say if the Colts do go at 34-44 with a wideout that the expectation should be at that pick is probably going to be

the opposite starting wideout, the WR2 across from T.Y. Hilton and you have Paris Campbell in the slot. There you have Zach Paschal as your blocking reliable wide receiver for them unless there's going to be a camp battle, so to say, for that second spot behind Hilton. But is it fair to say that if they – let's say they go like a T. Higgins or a Chase Kluke or a Michael Pittman, one of these players in the 34-44 range, that they likely will be that immediate –

they're going to have to be probably the most pressured draft pick, I imagine, George, because they're going to have to step into an immediate role here for a win-now contender with Phillip Rivers. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Pittman too. I forgot him. I think he's another guy that really, really fits that mold and really fits a lot of what the Colts want to do on offense. I think, yeah, I think that the expectation would be that that player is at least going to compete for that number two spot, if not win it. I think one thing that's going to be interesting, and I've heard, you know, you're going to hear all kinds of rumors as the draft comes closer and closer anyway.

But there's a lot of buzz out there that NFL evaluators in general are a little bit afraid of the fact that there's probably not going to be much of an offseason. When you look out there right now, we all know the world has changed and there's still a lot of uncertainty. Even the most optimistic projections right now, it's hard to really imagine teams getting back on the field together to work as a unit until training camp in July and that could hurt a rookie receiver in particular I mean receivers have generally some of the more slower transitions into the NFL game you even look at Reggie Wayne It took a couple years for him to really get up to speed and be that guy. So I think it's going to be interesting to see both in terms of how players react to that as the offseason goes on, but how teams react to that. Whether they push the receivers down their board a little bit with the thought that they may not give as

much instant impact. But I think even all that being said, if you do take a player at 34 or 44 as a receiver and you look at the needs on this roster, I think the expectation would still be that this is going to be a guy that if not week one, somewhere in the 2020 season is operating as that number two receiver. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting how this all shakes out because it's definitely one of the top needs here. But I want to throw a scenario your way here, George, because it seems like NFL circles and Ian Rappaport, Mike Garofalo of the NFL Network said,

I believe yesterday, that Jordan Lovestock is anywhere from five to 25. It seems all over the place in the most polarizing quarterback in this year's class. And there's been connections with the Colts in the past with Chris Bowers guiding him before. There seems to be interest on that side. Who knows if there's still interest after Trey and that third to the raw pick for DeForest Buckner. But what do you think is the scenario here, George? If Jordan Love does start sliding on the board here past New England, past New Orleans, what do you think the odds are that Chris Ballard does start making calls here that maybe if he is still smitten by Jordan Love, they could trade back into that first round?

I mean, you never say never. I think that's the biggest thing, especially with Ballard this offseason. He's shown that he's willing to be aggressive and that if it's something that he really feels like is going to help this team, he's going to go out there and make that move. But my gut feeling is that's not really going to be on the table. I think if he fell to 34, there would be a really interesting conversation in that draft room.

But I think short of him falling out of the first round, I'd be surprised to see the Colts go and use any kind of ammo to get back in the first round after quarterback because he did trade out of that 13 spot, and he did give Phillip Rivers – it's just a one-year deal, but they did give him $25 million. And so far, they've kept Jacoby Brissett on the roster and if we take them at their word right now that that's something that they intended to

continue through the whole regular season uh to me it's more likely that you see a quarterback come late in the draft you know whether that's a fourth round the fifth round the sixth round I think it's more likely guys like Anthony Gordon, James Morgan, those kind of guys in that third day range, just because I think it's probably going to be, unless something changes with the roster and then it's completely possible that it does, it's going to be a straight-up redshirt year, I think, for whatever quarterback comes in here.

They're going to be not the starter, obviously. That'll be Phillip Rivers, not the backup because that'll be Jacoby Brissett. And so I think it's going to be more of a developmental guy, but that's just my gut feeling. Yeah, I definitely agree with you. That could definitely be the route there, George. And if they went that route, I mean, I've heard them say definitely Phillip Rivers camp, and also I believe the Colts have said this themselves.

I don't know if it was Chris Bauer, Frank, right. But if Phillip Rivers plays well next year, George, I imagine he'll get a second year on his deal there. So it'd be a two-year deal, technically not really a one-year deal. It'd just be two separate one-year deals there for Phillip Rivers to play out his final two years of his career at the Colts. I think it's fair to say there's no quarterback on the roster, even technically counting Rivers, because no under

contract through 2021 jacob bruce and phil burris are free ends next year so i think they have to draft a product whether it's a backup developmental project or a future starter here george i feel like they have to draft quarterback at some point just with the contract situation with guys like per se and rivers yeah i think that's what makes it interesting. They still got to do something for the future of this position. Right now, the only guy on your roster who you're looking at as a developmental guy, a future of this position, is Chad Kelly. And he's got, I think, two snaps in his NFL career. So, you know, bringing in somebody at that position, I think, is one of the priorities of this draft.

I know that they've been out looking, and they certainly have vetted this quarterback class. And that's why I think there would be an interesting conversation if Love fell to 34. Because if that happens, I think that's the point where you start making conversations about, you know, can you deal Jacoby Brissett? Can you release him and eat that salary? Because I think if you were to invest that kind of a fit, even at 34 in a quarterback,

now you're going to be looking at a guy that's going to need to at least be the backup. You know, it would be, it's doable. It's conceivable that a guy like Jordan Love could, could sit the entire year as the number three guy. But it really just doesn't, it's not the most efficient use of your, your roster space and your assets.

So that's why I go with the later round guys. But, yeah, I think there will be a really interesting conversation in that draft room if Jordan Love falls out of the first round. Now, will that happen? Who knows? Like you said, I think his stock is really all over the place right now. I think both New Orleans and New England would be likely landing spots as you look at the latter half of the first round.

I think even Seattle might be interested just because they don't really have a backup right now to Russell Wilson. And, you know, the cost right now for a rookie quarterback, you could bring in a guy, develop him for a couple years, trade him, sort of like San Francisco did with Jimmy Garoppolo, or New England did with Jimmy Garoppolo, and see benefits in another way. So it's going to be interesting to watch how that plays out. But I do think they have to add a quarterback at some point in this process

just for the sake of what you mentioned right now the way contracts are are slated and scheduled there isn't anybody on the 2021 roster and you've got to address that some way I think George we've hit on the quarterbacks we've hit on the wide receivers arguably I think the two needs that I think the Colts are probably guaranteed to address in this draft class. But what other needs stand out to you most here, George? Because I think offensive line, I know maybe some listeners will sigh or just not – or be a little surprised, I guess, that we're mentioning offensive line because it's their strength,

their team. But you look at the depth of their roster behind them. I think the only guys right now are Lorabrin Clark, Jake Eldrenkamp, and Javon Patterson, a TORS ACLA rookie last year, seventh-round pick. None of those guys took snaps at all last year for the Colts in a regular season game, so, George, I wouldn't be surprised at all

if the Colts not only got an eventual replace for Anthony Costanza once he, I imagine, retires in two or three years, but adding more depth in the interior, there may be two draft picks on the offensive line. I'm not shocking at all. I agree with you 100 draft picks on the offensive line i'm not shocking at all no i i agree with you 100 i think the offensive line is definitely a focal point for this draft and i think chris ballard has already left those breadcrumbs for us you know at the combine he said point blank uh everybody else is obsessed with wide receivers he's obsessed with

offensive linemen and defensive linemen we've've already seen him go out and trade for DeForest Buckner and sign Sheldon Day and bolster that defensive line. I think it's reasonable to expect that a defensive end could be coming at some point in this draft as well. They find a pass rush option that they like. And the offensive line, I think it's exactly the two spots you were talking about. I think there's a chance here with a pretty good tackle class

to bring in a guy who's the heir apparent to Anthony Costanzo, knowing that you probably have two or three more years with him on the roster. And Ballard again kind of left the breadcrumbs for that, talking about you'd rather get that kind of a need filled a year or two early, because you know that the offensive linemen coming out of college these days need a little more development. They're not as ready to play right away as maybe they were 10-15 years ago just because of some of the changes across the nation really in high school and college football the way offenses are run you know linemen don't necessarily get in three-point stances do some of those things like like they do at the NFL level so I think that and when you look at this draft class, there's really four guys they look at as sort of the elite group,

if that's what you want to call them, at the top of the draft. And then after that, you've got guys like Austin Jackson, Isaiah Wilson, Prince Tego Wanogo from Auburn. There's a lot of interesting guys. Josh Jones from Houston is probably right at the top of that list, number five in most people's evaluations. Guys that have potential left tackle feelings that probably aren't going to be able to fill that role in 2020 wherever they land.

They could be really good fits here in Indianapolis. When you talk about the offensive line and the need there, I don't rule it out at 34. I think that there's a real possibility that a tackle is picked there if that's the way the board falls uh one of those guys i just mentioned maybe maybe a couple other guys if they fall out of the first round uh but also the the the need for a versatile interior backup is real and it's they kind of lost a one-two punch there when you lost Joe Haag to the Buccaneers in free agency. And then within like a day of that, Josh Andrews went to the Jets.

That took a lot, I think, from that second team offensive line away. And so now I definitely can see them going in the third round, maybe the fourth round, maybe even earlier than that, and getting an interior offensive lineman, somebody like Shane Lemieux from Oregon, Robert Hunt out of Louisiana, Lafayette, somebody in that kind of range who projects as a guard or a center. I think it's just something that we know means a lot to Chris Ballard. We know it means a lot to Frank Reich.

And I think it's a need that maybe not getting as much attention as some of the other ones on this roster right now. Yeah, and you bring up really good points there. Just the depth on this roster. Chris Ballard is obsessed with the trenches. And I believe with his philosophy, he's going to continue to do that in every single draft class here. But this is an underrated storyline.

I feel like George Hay heading into this draft class, and I don't know if it's really a need at all. I think it's arguably, again, one of their strengths. But Marlon Mack is entering the final year of his contract. We don't know internally their thoughts. I know Jim Mercy shot down the rumor of them working on an extension early with Marlon Mack. But would you be surprised at all, Georgia,

they went running back early in this draft and decided that we don't want to pay Marlon Mack a second contract when you see what's happening with all these other running backs getting second contracts like Todd Gurley, David Johnson, Devontae Freeman, et cetera? Do you think the Colts are a part of that philosophy as well, that they would not want to pay a running back big money in their second contract and maybe get a year ahead of it and draft his replacement early?

I don't know if that's going to happen, but it's something that's crossed my mind a little bit. Yeah, it's definitely – it's a conversation I just had with somebody else earlier today, honestly. I think it's absolutely a possibility for this team. I think running back is one of the things we don't talk about a lot because Marlon Mack had a great season. Jonathan Williams came in and did a good job behind him.

And I think there's a feeling out there that with this offensive line, you can really plug in a lot of different running backs and get good production, not take anything away from Mac. I think he's a really outstanding player. I think he showed last year he's an upper-level running back in this league. His speed and his home run ability, definitely out of the dimension of this offense that they need. But I 100% could see them dipping into that running back class and maybe even early in the draft.

I know they met with Cam Akers, the Florida State running back during the combine. I don't know how extensive that interest is or anything like that. But I know that they did have have a conversation with him i think jk dobbins if you look at him from ohio state some talk that he might be the one guy to go in the first round it seems like either him or deandre swift uh but he's he's got the sort of background that chris ballard loves when you talk about overcoming adversity and you know a lot of things that that ballard looks for and Reich, too, for that matter, in these players. J.K. Dobbins really exemplifies a lot of that. His dad was in prison.

He died in jail while he was young. He's had a really tough road to get out of Texas and to go to Ohio State and overcome a lot through his life. I think that's something that certainly could attract Ballard. I also think Jonathan Taylor is a guy who should be on the radar. We tend to forget that Chris Ballard was a wide receiver himself at Wisconsin. He's got some pretty decent ties to that program still. I know he's tight in particular with Barry Alvarez,

who of course really built the Badgers into what they've become. And so you know he's certainly got enough intel on the guys coming out of Wisconsin. Jonathan Taylor from all accounts, an incredibly intelligent kid, a high-character guy, highly productive in college. I mean, all those things we associate with picks that the Colts end up selecting. So I think that – and it goes back to what you said. I think if nothing else, it gives you leverage.

We know what Ballard's operating stance is, and it hasn't changed. Yeah, they brought in Phillip Rivers and DeForest Buckner this year, and those were bigger names, but they were guys who met the value that Ballard saw for them. When you look at positions, and I don't think running back would be any different. In fact, it probably would be held more to this than maybe some of the other spots, you know, that, that he's going to set a value.

He's going to set a range and then he doesn't want to go above it. And so I think if you, if you go out and you add a cam acres or you add a JK Dobbins, or you add a Jonathan Taylor, whoever it may be, Darrington Evans, I think from Appalachian State is an interesting prospect. They'll be there throughout the draft. If you go and you add a body to that mix, it just gives you that flexibility. It lets you stand firm on your pick.

And, you know, I don't think anybody wants to run Marlon back out of town. I'm not trying to say that. But we know that running back is a fungible position, and it's viewed that way across the league. So, yeah, I think you kind of have your head in the sand a little bit if you don't think it's possible that they're going to look, especially if they feel like a guy's really good value and a really good fit. What I feel like is really another interesting storyline here, George.

I know technically their first-round pick was DeForest Buckner. They spent that 13th overall pick on him. But the Colts are entering this draft with only seven draft picks on draft night. I find that very low for a guy like Chris Bauer. And I keep thinking if it's not trading up, I think you're in the camp of it's unlikely they're going to trade up in this draft and surrender extra draft capital from this year. What would you say the odds are, George, if the guys they want to slip to 34, maybe go late in round one, or the guys they prioritize don slip to 34 maybe go late in round one or the guys they prioritize

don't make it to 34 maybe they try to do what they did with the Jets a couple years ago and with the Redskins where they've seen two two drafts in a row now where if they get a future draft pick in the second round it usually ends up being a a pseudo first round pick so to say from the Jets and the Redskins both being 34 overall I. I have to wonder if Chris Bauer does the same thing here, if the guys he wants don't slip, if he maybe inquires with some of those teams that are on the bottom of the totem pole or maybe desperate to get a little antsy in the draft and maybe capitalize off that again. Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's something that he's shown a real willingness to do. I think it's definitely part of his repertoire. I think they do a really good job of having a lot of options. So it's both what you were talking about, the idea that the upper echelon guys are looking at maybe going the first round and aren't there at 34. But also if he gets to 34 and he's got eight or ten guys still on his list that he has graded roughly around the same spot that he feels like, you know,

any one of them will be an upgrade and will be a good addition to this team, go ahead and trade back within that range, making sure you're still going to get one of them, add picks, and still get a guy that you feel really good about. I think that was the genius of the Quentin Nelson trade, going down to six, understanding either Nelson was still going to be there or the defensive end, whose name is escaping me right now with the broncos uh out of north

carolina state you know those were two guys that he felt like one of those two still going to be on the board uh they almost both were the broncos kind of stepped in at five and grabbed the defensive end and left the colts with nelson which was more than you know obviously that that's worked out perfectly fine. He got that value. And then you go down in the second round, you're able to add Braden Smith, you know, and several other guys as a result of that through that deal. So I think that that's always going to be an option that Chris Ballard looks at.

I think certainly in a draft where he only has seven picks, it's something that he's going to consider. But I also think they're reaching a point now where it'll be interesting to see. I know that he's a guy that always wants more bites at the apple, always wants to be able to have more shots in the draft. But the roster is also getting to a point where it's going to be tougher to make this game. And so it'll be interesting to see how that math works too.

You know, maybe if there's a year he's going to trade up, maybe this is a year it's more likely to do that because you might feel like now you can keep adding picks. But at some point, you know, how many guys can actually make the team coming out of training camp? And so I think that's going to be an interesting balance to look at this year. George, before I let you go here, I have to get your final prediction for the draft

because it seems so crazy this year what's going on. It's going to be a virtual draft. Anything could really happen for the Colts now because they addressed the quarterback, Neal Phillip Rivers. They got the three technique they desired into Forrest Buckner. They could really go any direction. They're set up in such a way where they could go BPA at a lot of their early picks, but what would you say your predictions are for this Colts team at 34-44? Do you think they even stay at those picks? Yeah, you know, I think they will ultimately stay there.

Again, I think a lot of that has to do with what the offers are. And, you know, the real wild card in all this is love. Because if there's one spot that they may want to go up to, that could be it. We still don't know just how much Chris Ballard really believes in him as the quarterback of the future and just how much uh he'd be willing to give up to go back into the first round and grab him like you mentioned at the top of the show you know he's the biggest wild card in all this the other wild card we just mentioned you know the idea that that a team like the Jets or the Redskins the last two years wants to come after 34 and give capital up in next year's draft that could be very valuable but I right now my gut feeling is they will stay there and I really feel like

you know could be wrong always in this crapshoot of a draft even more so than most. But I really think there's a good chance that those two picks, one of them is an offensive tackle and one of them is a wide receiver. I don't know in what order that's going to go because a lot of that depends on how the first round falls and which one of those guys slips through. But I think just in researching this tackle group, I think there's a few guys that have a chance within two or three years to be a replacement for Anthony Costanzo. And I think that's something that's really going to be attractive to Chris Ballard and to his staff. Yeah, maybe something like Ezra Cleveland from Boise State, the really athletic offense tackle, and maybe like a Michael

Pittman or Chase Clippo 44. Does that sound like a home run draft to you for round two? Yeah, I think that's a real realistic scenario that we could see play out. George, this has been really fun. You can follow George over on Twitter at GMBramer. Read his work, as always, over on the Herald Bulletin. Appreciate the time, George, and I imagine we're going to all be buckling in for this draft because it feels like it could go any direction for this Colts team, so appreciate the time. No problem.

Thanks a lot, man.