Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS -4/7- Searching For A True Zero Technique In This Draft For The Colts W/@FourVerts

Episode Date: April 7, 2017

Charles McDonald (B/R 1000 DT Scout) swings by to school us on which of these defensive tackles are true zero-technique candidates this year, which round the #Colts can find them as well as what skill sets the top few can offer the D-line going forward. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

That's for my crazy day. My packed commute. All those unread emails in my inbox. But I'm getting stronger, faster, and pushing myself further every day. I don't care if I'm not like everyone else. This punching bag is the best way to end my day. Fearless is knowing yoga isn't your style. That's the power of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Federal Employee Program.

Learn more about our healthy benefits at fepblue.org slash getmore. No, I'm not for sale. You are lockeded On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back to Locked On Colts, ladies and gentlemen. I'm your host, Matt Dainley. And tonight we are going to study a little bit about a position that we haven't talked a ton about through the offseason and such. I mean, we've hammered through the linebackers inside and edge defenders. We've talked about cornerback safeties, running backs, just about anything, including offensive linemen, but one

of the Colts' biggest needs this year is to have an all-defining nose tackle to really anchor that front seven. And who else better than to bring in Charles McDonald to tell us a little bit more about him? Charles, thank you for joining me, man. Oh, thanks for having me on. I'm anxious for the draft to get here. We've kind of been talking about the same players over and over again. I'm ready to see where they end up now. Yeah. And I'm excited to have you on because this is, like I said, off air, this is a group that I have not really, you know, been able, not been smart enough or intelligent enough to really talk about these guys in depth, mainly because a lot of them, I'm just not skilled, just not up to date on a lot of these guys. I mean, there's so many

interesting positions and so many interesting names at other positions. It seems like I've kind of ignored this for my listeners. So I've kind of felt it was necessary to get somebody on who knew what was going on with these guys and kind of tell us who is going to be one of the better targets out of this group, who we could get guys late and so on and so forth so we'll get this going right now if you guys aren't following Charles he is at four verts on twitter yeah like I said he covers the defensive tackles for the BR NFL 1000 series he also does work at the Falcoholic so and also the setting edge podcast fantastic oh yeah I actually listen to that every time you guys have always. Always, always good. Thank you.

Most definitely my favorite episode was, you know, they're all good, but my favorite was Miko Grimes. That, I'm a mailman. That's what everyone says. I'm a mailman. I'm a mailman by day. So I'm walking around with my earbuds in and I just, I couldn't help but crack up laughing. So I'm just assured that some of my customers thought I was crazy. That was a fantastic episode. As we get into these guys, where could we realistically expect some of these nose tackles to come off the board?

I guess let's preface that a little bit with who would be your top three at the position you know it's kind of weird because well last year you know we had the big names with uh you know sheldon rankins and kenny clark and vernon butler and robert and dg jevon hargrave like the list goes on and on and on but this year it's the talent isn't quite as deep there but i do think there are some guys to have be had on day two so if you're kind of looking just at nose tackle types this class has a lot of guys that are you know like the the tweeners between defensive tackles and defensive ends but i've kind of nailed or kind of circled out three you know quote unquote true nose tackles for this class dalvin thomason from alabama eddie vanderdose from ucla and uh d'angelo brown from louisville

and you know they're all a little bit different you know dalvin thompson is your you know prototypical just i'm gonna sit here and eat up these blockers so the linebackers can go and and uh make plays in the run vander dose is a little bit different because he you know stylistically he tries to get upfield a little bit more than some of these other nose tackles do and he does have the explosion to do it he tested pretty well the combine and the 10 yard split and the broad jump so he does have the athletic ability to do that but i i think like at the senior bowl at least i saw that when he decides he just wants to blow up a blocker no one can really stop him but he tries

to play a little bit of a finesse game too much. So if you can kind of get him to say, look, dude, like you're a nose tackle, not a defensive enter at three technique. I think that that could be that could be a really good high upside draft pick. And D'Angelo Brown, you know, he's kind of fits the mold of, you know, we see like these teams kind of switching to smaller nose tackles like, you know, Seattle and Atlanta and Jacksonville and even the Texans a little bit a few years ago when they had a Blake. Oh, Earl Mitchell, who just signed with the 49ers and D'Angelo Brown. He's around that size, a little bit shorter, squadier. He's not that explosive, but he's's really really strong at the point of attack and in you know we see teams like texans that are in your division who use a lot of outside zone plays and even jacksonville has incorporated that into their scheme so if you can have a nose tackle that can you know move laterally and defend those runs that's that's always a plus but he's

never going to be like a star pass rush or anything like that yeah and see and see, and then the Colts have, uh, T.Y. McGill, which I'm sure that a lot of people outside of Indianapolis aren't necessarily familiar with. And he's not a true nose, but he, he kind of has, you know, with David Perry in there and he's just not, he's terrible. Yes. I mean, he just doesn't do it, you know, but T.Y. McGill probably could size wise. And the fact that, you know, like you spoke about with Vanderdose, he has that athletic ability. It's despite how big he is to get himself into the backfield and disrupt plays, whether pass or run. But he's not he's just not that true nose. And the Colts, I would assume, would look for that because that's really going to be the foundation of their defense this year. They're really trying to, I think, by all accounts with what they've done in free agency, they're really trying to make sure that they're hammering home, that they are trying to change the outlook on that.

Not only were they terrible on coverage, but they really have to establish themselves as good run-stopping defenders. Yeah, and I like what Chris Ballard, that's his name, right, Chris Ballard? Yeah. Yeah, I like what he's done so far because when you watch that Coles defense last year, I mean, that was one of my least favorite units to watch because they were just getting blown up off the ball like all the time. And outside of Antonio Morrison, you didn't really have like a dog in that front seven. And even with Antonio Morrison, he'll bring the physicality, but he can't run, and he's not great in coverage. So I like what they've done, bringing in Jabal Sheard and John Simon,

and hopefully they'll be able to get a defensive tackle in this draft class. Yeah, and let me ask you this real quick about Sheard while we're on the topic of him. Do you think that he can come down as a five tech periodically, whether it be in sub packages or in their base? Probably more in sub packages. I wouldn't really like more in sub packages i wouldn't really like that in base just because you don't really see guys with his body type holding up well against you know head up head up against off the tackles against a run like that and he was just one of those guys that when you watched him in cleveland you know he all fours and just would fire out and

i was like man i want to see some of that as opposed to really kind of how they used him in new England. I mean, you can see, I don't mind him being a standup outside linebacker, but I would love to see him in those sub packages knocked down and have somebody else, maybe whoever they draft in this, uh, in this year's draft kind of stand up and be that, uh, that rush linebacker from that side. So, uh, just a thought while i had you on here knowing that you've checked all these guys out so yeah uh but tell me uh a little bit about who who is the guy that you really like out of those three between uh tomlinson van der dos and brown uh you know i mean i think thomason and van der dos are are in a tier above brown so i mean when i'm looking at my my grade sheet right now and Thomas and the Vander does like they have a 0.2 difference in grade so I for me that really just comes down

to personal preference like are you going to I mean the Colts interest in Poe uh and just the way that Kansas City used Poe and kind of how he would translate to that defense kind of makes you think that they just want a guy who's going to sit there and clean up blocks and allow space for the linebackers to flow, which is fine. I mean, we've seen plenty of defense be extremely successful doing that. So I think Tomlinson might be more of the Colts flavor, but I like Vanderdose just just i like defensive tackles being able to you know i guess it's gonna sound corny but be free and go be able to get up field and go disrupt plays and not just have to kind of be a blocking dummy for for the linebackers so i mean i think for the colts dalvin thomason probably fits their quote-unquote prototype better just based on what they wanted to see from Poe but I think

and if Eddie Vanderdose would be a great fit too yeah and I'm kind of like you I enjoy the you know now his name's escaping me but the last uh nose that we got out of Alabama he was similar to that too wasn't getting in the backfield much at all I can't believe that oh Josh Chapman thank you man totally blew over my head too yeah and he wasn't one of those guys that would get in the backfield much at all. I can't believe that. Oh, Josh Chapman. Thank you, man. Totally blew over my head too. Yeah. And he wasn't one of those guys that would get in the backfield. I'm more, uh, I like the guys that can go back and disrupt the guys that can actually create a pass rush from that position. But at the same time, I want to make sure that they are quality run stopping guys or that they are at least have the ability, you know, to take up more than one blocker and can handle the double team. Uh, because that's ultimately what this scheme, and I'm using air quotes,

because it's just such a strange scheme to begin with, you know, it's considered a three, four, you know, hybrid, but there's really no hybrid, it seems with it, it's just like the rest of the NFL that are doing about 65, 75% subs. And I just really want them to find a guy that can do both and that is quality in both aspects and if that's Vanderdose and so be it I'm totally fine with that but they've got to be able to be run stoppers first and I think that obviously the the front office and the coaching staff are definitely looking for somebody that fits that mold as well um when we go on to where are these guys kind of looking at as far as, uh, on, on like maybe your big board or where would you expect them to fall, uh, in the draft? Like maybe an early second round or even second day, you say? Just from what I've seen on tape and just buzz from guys I've talked to,

I think they're probably going to end up going around the turn of round two and round three. So anywhere in that 50 to 75 pick range is where I think those guys will probably come off. And then D'Angelo Brown is more of a day three guy. But I like Brown for what he gives you. You just kind of have to know that he's never going to be a great pass rusher. And what kind of interests me with Vanderdose is, like you said, every team is just – they're playing nickel. I'm a Falcons fan, so I know that they played 65% nickel last year. guy who's who who can stop the run and nickel and still not be a complete liability on passing downs that's what that's where i think vander does maybe a little bit of a better fit for the colts

just because he's a better pass rusher than thomason but thomason does give you a little bit better run defense on you know a more consistent down-to-down basis yeah and they really have to be the colts defense front seven, just absolutely has to completely change the way that they're viewed. They have to become a meaner defense. This front seven's been so weak, kind of like you said, that there's not really many dogs on this team. And, you know, for that matter, it was nice that Morrison was such a thumper, except for the fact that he, you know, had like the, I mean, he just could not pay attention. It seemed like long enough to be in the game any more than on running downs. You put him in, not only was he bad in coverage, but he couldn't, he didn't know who his guy was. He had no idea what his assignment was in some of those.

And that started in camp. You could see it move forward. He had a few, a little stretch of some good games there where he seemed to play pretty well, but then it just kind of fell apart in the end of the year as well. So, I mean, the remaking of this front seven really starts with, I think, that front four or that front three, depending on what package they're in. And is there another guy on here that maybe, let's see, and the Colts don't pick past round five at this moment,

which I expect them to pick up another sixth or seventh round pick at some point and trade back at some point throughout the draft. Is there somebody that late in the draft that is going to at least be more than a camp body? This year, I'm not really sure maybe a guy like elijah quails from washington who's uh you know he's like your your prototypical nose tackle that he's not going to give you anything past rushing but he can he can not be a liability versus uh versus ron maybe he's a guy that you pick up on you know in the sixth or seventh round if you trade back in round two and pick up another pick right there. But this class is not as strong and as deep as last year. I think if you want a guy who's

going to be a starter, you're going to have to take him in round two probably. That's high, I think, for the Colts. But then again, if they see one of those guys that are a difference maker in any way, shape, or form, then I don't think that they would hesitate to peel him off the board. That's for sure. When you look at how bad that front seven was last year, you might have to reach for a guy because you just can't go into this season with David Perry who just started nose tackle that I mean that's that just can't be possible right it's a scary thought because

at the same time when when not only myself but a lot of us want those flashy uh big time difference making pass rushers on the edges um at the same time, this is, you know, and kind of like what, you know, I was talking to George Bremer last night on the show, and we were talking about how he's going to, how Ballard should approach the draft as far as, you know, when he was in free agency, he approached it as grabbing those foundational guys like Simon and Sheard, and just some other depth guys, you know, basically to see if they can show out. But we want, we want the edge guys, and we want the flashy guys. But getting a nose tackle who can actually do it all as far as playing against the run

and, you know, creating a little havoc in the backfield is something that, like you said, you're going to absolutely have to do at some point if you really want this defense to turn the corner. Yeah, and, like, there aren't that many guys like that in this class. It's just kind of hard because the NFL, they kind of value defensive tackles in a weird spot. I was big fans of Javon Hargrave and Grady Jarrett the year that they came out. Grady Jarrett was a fifth-round pick, and Hargrave was a third-round pick, and they're both studs.

So I think that difference-makers can be had on the third day, not the third day, but on the second day this year. But you're going to have to take that guy in the second round just because you can't risk him slipping through the cracks. You can't pick a position in the second round and say well hopefully van der dos is going to be here in the in the third round no you're gonna have to say look we have we don't really have a starting nose tackle on our roster right now we have a chance to get one right now let's not risk it let's pull the trigger right here so if if it can uh shore up a

spot in round one and then come back and take a defensive tackle round two, I think that that's a pretty good start for them. Yeah, I agree. And I think that has to be, like you said, there has to be their mindset going into this is like, look, if we're going to get one at all, we're going to have to get him now. They're just, you know, we're not going to have any kind of impact on day three with some of these guys, at least not what we're wanting to build. And so this really does, it's such an interesting draft, not only because of the talent involved in it, but because of Chris Ballard coming in in his first year,

just really trying to make his mark on this team. And as a general manager, being a first-time general manager, this is one of the best drafts he could possibly get. Is there another guy, like not so much on a nose tackle basis, but like a guy who is considered maybe a three tech right now who could fill in, um, that they may would be worth going after like maybe late day to early day three or something like that, who could fill in as a, as a nose tackle and, and do it well. Oh yeah. Uh, so so i'm there are two guys that really uh fit this description for me the first one is jaleel johnson from iowa now behind malik mcdowell he's my second

ranked interior defensive lineman and i have a i mean just from the film i have a first ground first round grade on him uh but he didn't do that great at the combine but i i think like when you look at interior defensive linemen the tape is is more important than the the combine i mean with edge defenders you know my my podcast co-host justice mosquit he's done a lot of force players metric stuff like that so i think he has the argument there but inside the tape is real supreme. So, like, Johnson, he was just a beast at 3-tech for Iowa. And he led them in sacks for two years in a row, I think. And, you know, he's not the flashiest player, but he's just really technically sound. He understands blocking schemes and what he's looking at.

And he's rarely out of position. So, I think the testing might knock him down a round or two. So if you can get – if Johnson's sitting there on the board in the third round, I mean, it's taking me like two seconds to run that card in and go grab him. Just because, you know, I mean, I've compared him to Kwon Short from the carolina panthers guys that like short's not the flashiest athlete but he's just a big tough guy who knows what's coming at him when it's coming at him and uh i mean that works in the nfl absolutely you know in college we get kind of hyped up on these guys that are always more athletic than the offensive linemen they're going against.

But when you kind of narrow the pyramid, I guess, to the top and you see that all the offensive linemen in the NFL are good athletes too, give me the guy that's going to understand when and where they're coming from and how to attack and defeat those. So Jaleel Johnson is like – when it comes to blocker recognition he's like real high up on on the list of guys i like and then the next guy is uh chris wormley from michigan who just absolutely destroyed his pro day he ran yeah he's good he uh he ran a 7 7.08 three cone at 297 pounds which is crazy i mean you'll see some linebackers and safeties running that three-cone at 70 pounds less, which is just ridiculous for his size. So I think if you can get Wormley, and he's been a guy that started at Michigan for a few years now

and had great production, and now he has great athleticism to go with that, that kind of makes him a safer pick too. Now, with Wormley, I don't know if he's going to be there in round three. I mean, he could end up being like a top 50 or 45 pick and I wouldn't really be that surprised but if he lasts in third round I don't think I think you gotta pull the trigger on that like ASAP oh man I don't I I I really like him I mean my my assumption without having a big board of my own necessarily is that he's an early second round pick uh uh, maybe mid second, but I mean, it really kind of depends on how quarterbacks and all these other things go in

the first round, uh, to push a couple of those guys back. I mean, it's not like we've got 10 quarterbacks going in the first round, but I, you know, just those few picks could, you know, do what it needs to do for a team to grab a guy like that. But I really liked Chris Wormley. I think that he's a guy that can bring a ton with him, not only that, but he can move out. And you know, he, I don't, I don't know as far as in comparison to a lot of the other guys, as far as arm length or whatever, but he sure, when he does, he sure uses his arms to the best of his advantage and he uses them well,

as far as how long his arms are in comparison. Like I said, I don't know to a lot of these guys on the, uh, that are in for the draft this year, I don't know to a lot of these guys that are in for the draft this year, but man, I loved his tape. I really enjoyed watching him. He seemed to be just as apt to be able to work the edge as any of the guys on there. I'm not a fan of Taco Charlton, really, a guy like that who's considered to be more of a pure edge rusher, but Wormley was a guy who stuck out to me on tape, really enjoyed him, liked that he could move inside, liked that he could come out as well and help with the pass rush in that regard.

But, man, some guy, I just don't know how he could last until day three. Or not day three, but round three. If he lasts until the third round, you know, somebody better be running that thing up as soon as the clock starts, like you said. Now, let me ask you about malik mcdowell i got you here that one of the guys that just like everybody talks about his tape his notre dame tape has been was fantastic and then he just kind of shut it down there towards the end of the year what is your take on that as far as uh red flag wise is that a major issue to you or do you think that the fact that

michigan state wasn't having such a you think that the fact that michigan state wasn't having such a great season at the time that he was just kind of you know packing it in and you know it's it's much much ado about nothing yeah i i just don't really think it's a big deal i mean you go back and you go and watch he had really he had two really good games after the notre dame game uh first versus Indiana and Northwestern. And he has a lot of good reps for BYU too. And I just kind of see the human side of it, you know, where he's an 18-year-old kid, right? Five-star recruit, goes to Michigan State.

I think they were in the playoff that year against Alabama, right, as a freshman. Then they come back next year, and they're almost in there again and his his junior year he's a star with playing with three other three freshmen on the defensive line and their team just sucks like i i can i i mean i don't know i can see where a 20 year old kid who has never really faced any adversity on the football field like that might get a little bit disinterested but like when you watch him play it's crazy because he's not refined like he's not he's really not refined player yet but he understands blocking schemes like i like with jaleel johnson like jaleel johnson is more refined with his technique in his hands and his feet and stuff like that, but he doesn't have the upside that McDowell does. So if I can get a guy who may not be the most refined with his

technique, but he understands blocking schemes and he knows at least where to be, I'll take that. I'll take a chance on that in the first round to see, like, hey, if I'm a playoff team and Malik McDowell is sitting there and we already have a quarterback and we don't really have another pressing need, pull the trigger. Like, you know, if I'm if I'm the Colts in the first round, I would not be opposed to pulling the trigger. I'm Malik McDowell if he's there, because in the AFC South with Andrew Luck, you're you're you're right there being a playoff team every year, no matter what, pretty much. So, yeah, I really love Malik McDowell. I think he's going to be an absolutely excellent pro. A lot of people have been comparing him to Comdichie, but I wrote about Comdichie last year. Comdichie was not on the same level mentally on the field that McDowell was.

Much more into what he was doing as far as the scheme and so on huh right yeah interesting now now a lot of people were comparing him to like the Chris Jones factor who he went to the uh Chiefs in the second round last year and or was it like yeah last year yeah it year. And, you know, is there much of a comparison as far as their their issues, their personal issues with that? I mean, there's a lot of talk about McDowell not being a good teammate. How does that kind of move into the NFL as far as that goes? But I mean, you know, when it gets when you're in college, a lot of these guys, not only are they trying to be seen, I mean, this is the ultimate point right now. This is the zenith right here is getting to the point where you're considered to be an NFL prospect. And, I mean, a lot of these guys are, you know,

all about themselves and selfish. And, I mean, that's just the way it goes. Is that anything different aside from his, you know, kind of shutting it down? I mean, is is that anything would that bother you at all uh not really i mean i don't really i i just feel like i don't really know enough as an outsider outside of hearsay with uh with character concerns mcdowell's so weird because, you know, he never got like, he never got arrested or anything. It's just kind of what we hear from the,

from whispers from Michigan state. And I don't know. I just, I don't really, I don't really factor that too much into my evaluations, honestly, unless, you know, we have like an arrest record or like a warrant or something like that. Yeah. It is really weird too. Cause there's never really been like any concrete reasons or explanations for why somebody saying that there's always so-and-so says this about him,

but there's really like, okay, can you give me an example? And there really is never any given. Yeah. It's just kind of, he kind of disappeared from the, from the rotation towards the end of the year,

which is always an eye opener because he was very easily their best defensive player. So I think in the right situation, he's going to be an absolute stud. I don't know. I have him in my top five personally, but if I'm San Francisco and I need a culture change, I don't know if that's the guy I want to bring in at number two, but if he's falling down the board and I'm a playoff team and we already have a solid thing going here, I'm pulling the trigger easy. Yeah, and it's always a good thing when you've got an existing leadership core in any NFL team, and that's something the

Colts really don't have, I would say right now. They've gotten a lot of, rid of a lot of their leadership. Guys like DeQuell, even Walden. I mean, a couple guys who you wouldn't think that were real popular with teammates were actually fantastic locker room guys. And so a lot of their, you know, and Mike Adams, you know, he was another guy. And, you know, Robert Mathis. I mean, the list goes on and on. A lot of their defensive leadership has been gone. So this might be, I don't know. Like you said, what is it?

We don't know. A lot of the guys that are scouting these guys and a lot of the coaches and GMs know a ton more than we do and probably a lot more than we'll ever know about them until something pops up while they're in the league. So yeah, Charles, thank you so much for joining me, man. It was excellent insight. Uh, like I said, something I had kind of not really gotten to my listeners, uh, to this point. And I wanted to give them somebody who understood the position and could, uh, could, could school them a heck of a lot better than I could. So, uh stopping by, man. Give me some of your time.

Make sure that you guys are following him at 4verts on Twitter. Like I said, he covers the defensive tackles for Bleacher Report, their BRN 1000 series. Catch him at the Falcoholic as well, doing film and NFL draft work there. And also make sure you guys are subscribing to the Setting the Edge podcast. Him and Mosqueda really do a fantastic job. It's a lot of fun to listen to. Much less serious than anything you guys will hear me on, that's for sure.

Oh, yeah. It's a great listen. Gives me something to listen to on the days. So thanks again, man, for dropping by. Truly appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Thank you guys for listening.

And make sure that you guys are getting ratings and reviews there on iTunes. Thank you guys for everything. Make sure you guys are hitting that call in number 574-516-2881. Get those voicemails in here for the mailbag show and we'll get them on the show. Thank you guys all for joining me this week and we'll talk to you next week right here on Locked on Colts. You are Locked on Colts, your daily podcast on the Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day.