Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 5/13/20: Crossover Special with Locked On Bengals

Episode Date: May 14, 2020

On today's episode, the Locked On Bengals crew joins as we go through our latest AFC South vs. AFC North Crossover Special. As always, we kick things off with our opponents in Cincy.Is Joe Burrow the next Andrew Luck? No, seriously, there's a lot of parallels, and Burrow is walking into a better situation than Luck in 2012.Also, how much better are the Bengals' receivers after keeping A.J. Green and drafting Tee Higgins? We also dive into the defense's ceiling before unveiling record predictions.Flipping over to Indy, Philip Rivers is set up to bounce back big-time. Will we see 2018 Rivers for the Colts more consistently? Are the Colts poised to realistically challenge Kansas City and Baltimore atop the AFC in playoff situations?A lot of new additions have Indianapolis poised to leapfrog back atop the AFC South once more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Alrighty, welcome everyone to our latest crossover special here on the Locked On NFL Network. I am Evan Sirey, the host of Locked On Colts, and I'm joined by two very special guests today, Jake Lisko and James Rapine of Locked On Bengals. How are you guys doing today? We're doing great in Cincinnati, Evan. We are ready for the annual Week 4 preseason matchup, but I guess we're going to have to deal with you guys in the regular season this year too and you know what I'm just happy that it's not Peyton Manning anymore because I

remember back when the Bengals had Carson Palmer the one team that they could never seem to beat they can never seem to outscore Peyton Manning in those matchups no yeah those were certainly the fun ones though I mean Cincinnati back in the days when I used to watch them man Chad Ochocinco Chad Johnson still one of my favorite players back in the day. And I think with the Bengals now getting Joe Burrow, I think Cincinnati is gonna be back on fire from a football standpoint. So it'll be fun. It will be, it will be. I think you mentioned Chad Ochocinco. I think the fan base hasn't been this excited for a singular player since Chad Johnson. Obviously, I'm talking

about Joe Burrow. And even then, I think that this could exceed that because of the position Joe Burrow plays. So this team, this city is extremely excited to hopefully have a winner again after four straight losing seasons. Yeah, and that's what I want to hit on first with you guys. What was it like just watching the Bengals this past year? I know it was down in the dumps with how it went. It went down really the worst case scenario from the very beginning with A.J. Green's injury, even before camp started. But what was it like watching this Bengals team and following along

when you see not only – I imagine at the very beginning you guys think of Tua Tagovailoa as maybe the future franchise quarterback, but watching Joe Burrows' meteoric rise at LSU and then really make a very easy decision once April came around. Yeah, it was painful. I stopped watching the games at some point, and I had to talk about the games for my job on the Lockdown Bengals podcast.

So that tells you something, right? I would watch them in the condensed format afterwards and be like, okay, what disaster happened this week? And then by that time, actually, they started playing a little bit better in the back half of the season. But it was noticeable for Cincinnati fans. It was noticeable for us as analysts. People stopped going to the games. They were the biggest train wreck they've been since the 90s.

They actually had the worst attendance number that they'd had since the 90s. So we were looking forward all year. We actually got a sponsor on the Lockdown Bengals podcast. It was a hotel in Miami. They said, you know what? You guys need to promote us to Bengals fans. Get them to come down here for the Tua Bowl. The tank for Tua finale.

And that tells you where people were thinking for the Bengals last year until that injury, right? Although I will say that for me, when Joe Burrow went to Tuscaloosa and out-dueled to Otago Vailoa, that did kind of put him over Tua for me. And I was a late adopter for Joe Burrow. What about you, James? Were you on the Tua train or were you pretty much on Joe Burrow? All over the Tua train. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to hide from it. I still think if he avoids that hip injury, even with Joe Burrow's stellar play, and obviously

what he did was amazing. I think there would have been at least a debate there, a conversation. But the Bengals, you couldn't have asked for a better quarterback, better mindset than a guy like Joe Burrow. He has all the intangibles, everything you're looking for from that standpoint. And I think that matters, Evan, because you look at this team, and we've talked about Carson Palmer already. Obviously, Andy Dalton had some success. But even over the past 20 years, they've been missing something.

And Joe Burrow does seem like a guy that could bring that missing piece, whether it's leadership or attitude or however you want to describe it. It factor, excuse me. I think that it's something that he brings, and it could be the difference between having a couple successful runs versus being a successful franchise. And that's something that for your Colts, right? Peyton Manning did that.

And I think that Joe Burrow, I'm not calling him Peyton Manning, but I would not be shocked at all if he had that it factor and the intangibles to turn the Bengals around and make them a successful organization in 2020 and beyond. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that example too because I feel like another recent one for the Colts, Andrew Luck right away. They were 2-14 the final year before they got him, and right away 11-5 those first three seasons before the Andrews really took over his career and derailed it.

Do you feel like Joe Burrow could go down that same path, James? Because it really seems like compared to what Andrew Luck stepped into, he actually has infrastructure in the offensive line. He has the playmakers, a really loaded playmaking group, A.J. Green, Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd. You have Auden Tate and John Ross for depth there. I think everything's in place now, especially adding Joe Mixon in the backfield where the Bengals can really surprise people this year. Joe Burrow really is a true franchise savior. I think so. I think so. I think that's a good parallel. And you look back at the 2012 Colts. I don't think that roster from a skill

position standpoint is as talented, at least on paper, as those guys who just rattled off. The real question for the Bengals after remaking their defense and drafting Joe Burrow and getting A.J. Green back, hopefully healthy, is the offensive line. And that's something obviously early on in Andrew Luck's career that the Colts struggled with as well. So I think there are a lot of parallels there. Can A.J. Green have a Reggie Wayne-like factor in presence the same way Reggie did for Andrew Luck, right, with over 1,300 yards? I think that would be huge if A.J. can bring that kind of firepower, that kind of talent to the table this year after multiple injuries in a couple of down years. So I think there are some parallels there and it is going to be interesting. I don't think that Burrow has the physical ability in some aspects that Andrew Luck has, but he has the same amount of intangibles, maybe a little bit more fire competitiveness or whatever you want to say. But Andrew Luck was one of those once in a generation prospects. And I think some view Burrow that way and others don't think so.

So it's going to be interesting to see how Burrow does as a rookie. Let me do the opposite side here on defense for a second. Jake, what do you think of how the Bengals have done rebuilding this defense? I know you have Jesse Bates in the back end, but you also brought in Carl Stunlap. You got D.J. Reeder on a big contract to come in and be your three-tech alongside Geno Atkins. I really like that fit as far as this Bengals defense goes I know it's it's gonna take time to rebuild it but I like where they're going I think that they've been very proactive and have done as well as you could

do for a one-year rebuild DJ Reader's impact he's a tackle, but I really think that it's hard to overstate how important it is for this team to have dominant play at nose tackle and how much of a difference that should make in one of the primary areas of deficiency from 2019 for the Bengals, which was linebacking, gap filling, containing the edge. And I know DJ Reader won't have any direct impact on containing the edge, but he should be controlling at the point of attack. My favorite thing to watch, since we're talking Colts-Bengals at this point, was the breakdown of DJ Reader going against Quinton Nelson from last year. Those two guys, two of the best in the league at what

they do, fighting essentially to a stalemate. Nelson winning some plays, Reeder winning some plays, other plays, nobody really winning. I'm really looking forward to that matchup when these teams meet in the regular season actually, but in addition to DJ Reeder, they retain some guys on the defensive line that are good depth pieces and Josh Tupo, my pin tweet, I tell everyone about it, is Josh Tupo tackling Lamar Jackson in the open field. My favorite play from the 2019 season. They bring in tackling and speed at the linebacker and cornerback position in Trey Waynes and Mackenzie Alexander,

their free agent acquisitions from the Minnesota Vikings and three linebackers in the draft. Akeem Davis-Gaither, Logan Wilson, Marcus Bailey, who I'm sure some Colts fans are familiar with right down the street at Purdue. They've done a lot to try to overhaul this defense, addressing deficiencies in speed and tackling. I hope that it makes a difference and we'll find out pretty quickly if they can be what they were in the second half of last year when things started to come together.

Last question I have for you guys on the Bengals. I'll kick off with James first and Jake. Just your overall predictions and expectations for this Bengals team this year and how much did they close the gap on the rest of the AFC North? Because if all goes well, I will not be shocked at all

if this Bengals team was an 8-8, 9-7, maybe in a better team than that if Joe Burrow and he's pieced Joe together pretty quickly. I think that would be the absolute ceiling, right? If everything goes right, if Zach Taylor is a really good head coach, I think the jury's still out in that department. If Joe Burrow has no issues as a rookie and could come in and just be that guy in the offensive line, obviously outperforms expectations. Then yeah, can they win eight or nine games? I think so, but I think that's the absolute maxing out. A.J. Green stays healthy, mixing as a career year. The defense completely remade, delivers on expectations after a bunch of free agent and draft additions. I'm more in the six

win range, but I'm not really judging this season by wins because it's an extremely challenging division. I think that the Baltimore Ravens are arguably the best team in football. Pittsburgh Steelers, they get Ben Roethlisberger back. They've been a thorn in the Bengal side for years. And then obviously what the Cleveland Browns have done from a talent standpoint, top 10 talented team in the NFL, who knows if they put it together. But so it's a, it's a really tough division in with this weird off season and stuff like that. I just want a year from now, Bengals fans to feel like 2021 can be their year. So that could mean six wins. That could mean seven or five, but at the end of the year, 17 weeks, 16 games, we look and we say, Joe Burrow's that guy, and they have pieces around him, and maybe they need

another offseason to fill in a couple of weak spots, but they're ready to go and hit the ground running. I think that's a successful season. So I guess five to six wins, but I think if they absolutely maxed out, Evan, you're right. They could be in that eight to nine win range. Yeah. What do you think, Jake? Do you think you're on the same page as James there? Yeah, I think that there is a very wide range of outcomes for this team. I actually talked about it on Locked On NFL today. So if you guys want to hear a lot more about the Bengals for some reason,

Locked On Colts listeners, go check out the Locked On NFL episode from Wednesday. What's today's date May 13th and I talked about this for a solid five minutes but I won't talk about it for five minutes this time I'm mostly in line with James there are a lot of questions for this team there are a lot of young players on the offensive line that if they play well if the wide receivers stay healthy if the acquisitions they've made on the defensive side of the ball hit the ground running,

then I think the ceiling for them is like second place in the AFC North. But if everything goes poorly or even below average in terms of injury luck, in terms of player development, then it's very easy to see them coming in last in the division.

And then you're looking for those signs that we have a core in place. We can build the future. And maybe some of these veterans, AJ Green, Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins, help bring in the future. But maybe they're not part of that wave. That's the challenging part for me as a fan, is I want to see those guys have success.

But I'm not sure if that'll happen this year or not. I would love to be surprised. For all Colts and Bengals fans out there, just to remind you, before we go on to segment two of our show, to subscribe to Locked on Bengals and Locked on Colts. We're with you guys five days per week right now, and we're going to be kicking things up a lot more as we get closer to this season. So I want to remind you, if you're not ready, to subscribe

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And let's get a Colts perspective here from Evan Sidery. Evan, I appreciate the time. Let's start with what the Colts did at the quarterback position this offseason. They signed Phillip Rivers' one-year $25 million deal. How surprised were you? And are you excited that Phillip Rivers is making the trip across country to join the Colts? Yeah, at first I was kind of surprised surprised because you see what Philip Rivers did last year, 20 interceptions. It wasn't a good look, but the more you dive into the numbers and the more you

go back and watch some charters games, the more you realize that Philip Rivers is doing this in a lot of situations where he's down from behind, has a lot of pressure in his face. But then you step into a situation in Annapolis on a one-year deal. Both sides have already said it all goes well in 2020. They want to get back together in 2021 for one final go around. But it seems like Rivers and the Colts, I think it could be a perfect marriage here because not only the offensive line, but also the playmakers that are in place and the relationship he has with

Frank Reich and offense coordinator, Nick Sirianni. I think Rivers is really in prime for a bounce back year, like we saw in 2018, maybe not that kind of level, but right near that. Cause I think the pieces he has not only on the offensive line, like I mentioned there, Quentin Nelson, Ryan Kelly, Anthony Costanzo on the left side there, but also you have players like Jonathan Taylor and Marlon Mack for a one-two punch in the back three. You have Michael Pittman Jr. and T.Y. Hilton as your one-two punch at wide receiver. You also have Jack Doyle-Titan, who's

always reliable. I think there's a really good chance, compared to Jacoby Brissett as well, Jacoby, for the last two months of the year, defense really just knew how to beat him, stack the box of eight or nine guys and just make Jacoby beat you deep. And everyone knew he wasn't aggressive. So it always was speed check downs, just quick gains. And it was a lethargic offense that just was really just bad to watch the last couple of months. And I think the Colts realized that too. They need to add more explosiveness. And Phillip Rivers is a gunslinger. He's not afraid to take chances. So I think Rivers, there's a really good chance if Wright can rein back his aggressiveness a little bit and have a little less pressure on him I think that this

could go really well for both sides there's a lot of speed when I look at the Indianapolis offensive depth chart between T.Y. Hilton, Paris Campbell, Jonathan Taylor one of my favorite draft picks in the late rounds of this year's draft was Danny Pinter out of Ball State. But I've got to ask you, Evan, what player addition are you most excited for on this Colts team? Because there are some good choices. DeForest Buckner, Michael Pittman, Jonathan Taylor, Xavier Rhodes. Is it DeForest Buckner or are you looking to one of the rookies? I think it would have to be DeForest Buckner because I think the impact he's going to have on all three levels of the Colts defense is going to be really just huge. It's going to change everything for Darius Leonard.

He's going to run free even more, which is scary NFL defense with the way he's played the first couple of years of his career. It's less pressure on players like Xavier Rhodes. Of course, he's really struggled last couple of years in Minnesota. And you also have Kenny Moore back there as your nickel. It's a really young, unproven defense. But you add in a superstar like DeForest Butler to go, Darius Leonard for your one-two punch.

The first time the Colts have had two all-pros in their defense since Bob Sanders and Dwight Freeman in 2005. So it just goes to show you how long it's been. Just to have this influx of just elite young talent on their defense. And the way Buckner's going to give them inside pressure, it's going to help out players in the front four as well, like Kamoko Ture, who was really going to break out a year before his ankle injury, and Justin Houston,

who still had 11 sacks last year, despite really being just a one-man band at points last year. And I think this Colts front four has a chance to be really good. And it's really struggled last year and the last few months of the year because with the lack of pressure, teams are just going to slice them up. Jameis Winston almost 500 yards. Drew Brees only had a game where he had one incomplete pass the whole game. It got awful at the last part of the year for the Colts, even.

But DeForest Bender is going to change everything. I feel like he's kind of the crown jewel for Chris Ballard's rebuild here because he wants to go through the trenches. You have Quentin Nelson on one side and DeForest Bender on one side. That's a bully right there. Yeah, I think that's a common theme with Ballard, right? He's trying to add to both lines. But that's an interesting dilemma potentially for Ballard with T.Y. Hilton.

He's entering the final year of his deal. I know he talked about that this week, I think today, about potentially signing an extension with the Colts. Do you think that's going to happen this offseason, Evan? I do think so, yeah. I'd be surprised they let T.Y. Hilton go into a contract year just because the mutual respect on both sides and how T.Y. Hilton mentioned today, he wants to be a Colt for the rest of his career, whether it's a two-year extension, three or four. He wants to go as long as the next contract goes,

and he's going to really be the Reggie Wayne as to what he was for his rookie first few years of his career at T.Y. Hilton, where Reggie Wayne was his mentor. It's going to be the same thing now for him and Michael Pittman Jr., who is going to I think take the torch away from TY Hilton in a couple years anyways but yeah I'd be very stunned at this point if TY Hilton is not going to extension I know Chris Foud usually gets ahead of these things once we get closer to the season so I'd be stunned if we're through training camp and TY does not have a deal done let's talk about those wide receivers a little bit more. Michael Pittman expected to take the torch from T.Y. and be the number one receiver in Indianapolis. I think that there are a good number of people who watch the draft who think that Michael Pittman might be the better wide receiver prospect picked

between 33 and 34. T. Higgins, of course, going one pick earlier to the Bengals. These guys are going to be linked for some fans throughout their careers because they were back-to-back picks and they were both available for the Bengals I don't know if I necessarily see a huge division in these guys's prospects but what do you think of Michael Pittman versus Tee Higgins or would you have been more interested in a different player at 34? Yeah at first I was really high on Tee Higgins, but I got kind of scared away with the pro day numbers, him resting at the combine a little bit kind of turned me away.

But obviously his ball skills were incredible at Clemson with Trevor Lawrence throwing the ball. I expect the same kind of production with Joe Burrow eventually. But his lack of separation really scared me. I know Michael Pittman had a 4-5-2-40, but he had a really good 10-yard split. I think it was a 1-5-2-10-yard split, so he could really create separation off the line of scrimmage there.

And such a reliable player. The more he went and watched USC film, 2.7% drop rate per PFF, the best in college football last year. Very reliable. He does all the dirty work too, like Jack Doyle and Zach Paschali for this Colts team. Very good blocker. And he runs a complete route tree too.

So I think he could be almost like a Kenny Galladay type of player,on marshall where he could step in right away and be that target for philip rivers who could just you could toss down the field win 50 50 balls contest the cat situations also he can win over the middle of the field he's such a tough player and the colts always value these team captains these high leadership character qualities and when michael pitman jr he definitely has the capabilities of taking that torch into his eye just because he checks all those boxes that Chris Bauer wants in a prospect. Evan, I look at what the Colts did in the draft, and they drafted Jacob Eason, obviously Jacoby Brissett already on the roster. I asked you about Phillip Rivers, and we were talking about the Colts earlier this week

on Lockdown Bengals, and it's kind of weird because they're certainly going for it. But Phillip Rivers on a one-year deal, Jacoby Brissett, I think we know what he is. The Colts are one of those unique teams that are going for it without a long-term solution, a multi-year solution at quarterback. What is that? What do you expect that to be like beyond 2020? Could Phil Rivers potentially hang around if he plays well,

or is this one of those things where they're looking for a quarterback again a year from now? Yeah, I think if all goes well, Phillip Rivers will be back with the Colts in 2021. He mentioned he wants to play two more years. And Frank Reich also has mentioned before that he would love to keep Phillip around past 2020 if he doesn't really deteriorate physically or mentally.

And they still say, and they believe, Nick Sirianni mentioned this a couple of days ago, he believes that he's still an elite quarterback in the NFL. So it'd be interesting to see how that goes this next year, because if that happens, the Colts could still delay themselves to 2022 or 2021 if they want to move up like we saw Chiefs do a couple years ago Patrick Mahomes but I really believe that like maybe 2022 could be the real estate target date but they seem really high on Jacob Eason I know he's only a fourth round pick and they're not really risking anything

here but he's kind of almost like a Philip Brewers in the sense he's a's a pro typical pocket passer he's a slower athlete but they really like his mental stuff from everything we've heard from frank reich that his processing is a lot better than they thought it would be his checks the line scrimmage are actually impressed by and virtual meetings so far so if eason sits behind rivers and and he learns frank reich and nicks here on for two years it's kind of the per situation for eason because he had the concerns at washington that he did and a guy a quarterback guru like Frank Gregg really washed those away and Philip Burris is going to teach him how to be a true leader too let's wrap up by talking about expectations for the Colts this year the NFC the AFC South sorry is suddenly a competitive division with Ryan Tannehill's renaissance in, the Houston Texans with Deshaun Watson

carrying Bill O'Brien past the finish line. The AFC also boasting Kansas City and Baltimore, two teams that look shaped up to be perennial powerhouses for the future. Is this a team that you're expecting to win the division and make a playoff run, or do you think they can hang with the likes of Kansas City and Baltimore in the playoffs I do I do especially after the upgrades they made this offseason because I think they slot in pretty well at that three or four spot in the AFC I don't know how good Buffalo is going to be this year but I trust Phillip Beru still in this cold system more than Josh Allen so I'd put them at three right now and they do have the kid boat is it going in to I think Baltimore or Kansas City like we saw Tennessee do last year, like

Cairo run game. They're going to have Jonathan Taylor and Marlon Mack. So I could see that happening here. But in the AFC South specifically, I think Houston really took a step back here. Who knows what Bill O'Brien's doing, guys. It seems like he's trying to ruin the ship there in Houston. And you also look at Tennessee. They didn't really do much this offseason. They kind of regressed, in my opinion. They didn't really add much. They lost Logan Ryan. They lost Jack Conklin at right tackle. I think they could be in for maybe an 8-8, 9-7 year. Houston, kind of the same thing.

And we all know Jacksonville is really aiming towards Trevor Lawrence, it seems like, in 2021. I think this Colts team, with the moves they made and kind of leapfrogging above everyone else in the AFC South, I think they could be at least a 10-win team. I'm going to probably go like 11-5. And Salon has a 3-C in the AFC this year. Evan, thanks so much for your time.

I appreciate your optimism for the Colts. I don't know if I'm quite there with you, and I'll just go ahead and ruin my reputation with your listeners and Colts fans. I'm not sure I see them hanging with the likes of Baltimore and Kansas City, but you make a compelling point. They are stacked at the running back position,

so that could be something to watch. But that's going to do it for this edition of the AFC North, AFC South crossover week. Actually, coming to a conclusion with this episode, the Colts will play the Bengals this year in Indianapolis at week six, October 18th. And we'll talk to you then, Evan. I appreciate the time, guys.

I'm really looking forward to watching the Bengals this year myself.