Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS -5/26- Bar Talk W/@JakeArthurPFS

Episode Date: May 26, 2017

Matt and Jake discuss Ryan Grigson getting hired by the Cleveland Browns - maybe a bit too much - and how some of his time with the #Colts is conveniently forgotten. Also there's some chat about fantasy, OTA's, and the usual conversation on recent Colts news. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

No, I'm not for sale. You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back to Locked On Colts, ladies and gentlemen. I'm your host, Matt Dainley. Thank you for joining us on a Friday. I got my man Jake Arthur here for a little bit of bar talk. Jake, what's going on, my man?

Not a whole heck of a lot, buddy. What's going on with you? Nothing. Enjoying the day. It's been a good day for me. How has yours been so far? Yeah, not too bad. Just wrapping up a real busy week, getting ready for some Memorial Day weekend festivities. So let's get to it. Looking forward to that myself, getting an extra day off from work.

So loving that for sure. Lots of food, lots of drinking at Jime ready for that. That's right. So let's just start it off with some interesting news that we've gotten in the past couple of days. Grickson apparently has been hired as a senior personnel executive with the Cleveland Browns now. What are your thoughts on that initially? I mean, just, I mean, just if somebody told you that, Hey, the Browns hired Ryan Grickson, what would be the first, I mean, would it be, wow, would that be the first thing out of your mouth? Well, I, I mean, first off, it sounds like something that would come from the onion or the fake sports center. Cause I mean, the Browns and Grigson are counterparts of each other. You know, Grigson is the

former general manager version of the browns and vice versa you know what i mean and yes it's i honestly do believe the browns are going in the right right direction and at one time ryan grigson was a valuable cog in the machine of a scouting department he's not a guy to lead your your scouting department as the gm but he he was a respected member of the eagles scouting department so maybe he is valuable in a very limited capacity and just can't be the guy calling the shots so yeah i mean otherwise i completely agree i mean i completely understand if some people don't agree with it, and you can pretty much just chalk it up to Brown's going to Brown's, you know? Well, and I think that you're right on the head there as far as that he was respected as far as the scout.

You know, people enjoyed or appreciated his role with the Eagles and what he did, which is exactly why in his initial year and probably his second year, too, that they made as many trades as they did, albeit they were tertiary, you know, nothing major or anything like that. And I don't even remember the fullback's name that they brought in 2012. Ooh, Stanley Havili, I think. Yes, yep, that's right. I do tell you how much I appreciate fullbacks.

But, I mean, you know know they brought him in and i think i think there was a couple stories on it about how grigson was just i mean people were so flabbergasted that grigson got that job first of all and then people were flat even more flabbergasted like man this dude hasn't been anything close to a gm and not only is he getting the GM job in Indy which is a good job in general but he's getting Andrew Luck you know that was kind of the thing he's just he's going to be able to draft Andrew Luck and this dude's going to be coasting forever well you know I think that I you know what and I don't even think Grigson will be that bad I mean because he's going to be working under Sashi Brown and, and, and Cleveland there. And I think that he's, you know, he's going to be a guy,

not only taking orders, but he's going to be a guy who they look for that, uh, you know, the actual, the real, like the tape stuff out of, because they've got all the other pieces as far as analytics and everything else. You know, he's just going to be an added ear and mouthpiece to talk in the scouting room, ultimately, I think. I don't know exactly what his job title is at this point in Cleveland. Do you? No. I feel like it was announced last night, but I didn't pay much attention to specifically what it was. All I've seen is senior personnel exec.

That's it. Yeah, exactly. It's one of those kind of generic senior executive of player personnel, one of those type of real cookie-cutter titles. Yeah. I think ultimately it's just going to be he's one of the guys in that room. So I don't think it's that big of a deal i mean the guy's got obvious you know history in the league and uh you know i don't know whatever i mean it is it is funny to me though that not only it's funny to me that it's the

browns i think yeah you know because it's like did they do they not feel like they pulled the wool over his eyes when the Colts traded for Trent Richardson? Or did they think, you know, this guy's smart. He traded for a guy that we don't like, but he's going to be great in Indy or something. You know what I'm saying? Did they think that, you know,

Grixen made a wise decision with that trade? Because it almost makes you feel like they feel that way. I think other than Jimmy Haslam as the owner, I feel like that was a different front office. I think Ray Farmer was probably running it then. For sure. But you know Haslam has something to do with anybody that's hired there. Oh, yeah.

And, you know, Gregson, with all the trades and everything he made in the, what, four or five years he was here, I mean, he developed some contacts around the league. Networking is very important. Networking and relationships, being able to pull the trigger on certain trades with some guys around the league, that's probably an underrated component of what he brings.

But like you said, who knows exactly what his role is. He probably is just another experienced voice in there. Cause I mean, regardless of how good of a GM he was, he has been a GM for five or so years. So, right. And, you know, uh, and just, I mean, thinking about the big picture of it all, you know, he's, he's just a guy who's got that experience. I mean, why not bring him in? I mean, trust me, he's just a guy who's got that experience. I mean, why not bring him in? I mean, trust me, there's a lot of guys that have half the experience that he is that are in similar roles. So, I mean, if nothing else, he does bring that experience in for Cleveland.

So, it's interesting. I mean, it's whatever, though. I mean, I don't think that anybody thought necessarily that Grigson would never get a job again in football.'s not like right so that's i think it's good that cleveland got their offensive line shopping spree done because they can't they can't even though he's a former offensive lineman they can't rely on him to scout lineman for him because he can he's not he's not super sharp at that it's not not a strong suit. Yeah, yeah, probably not. I mean, you could say, I don't know, man, though.

I mean, but think about it in general. I mean, we've had this debate probably, you know, I mean, obviously off air. But, I mean, I think that at least myself, I've had this debate, you know, with other people like that. I'm not a Grixen backer by any means at all. I appreciate the draft that he had last year because of the linemen that he brought in. You know what I mean? But look at the guys in the early days.

Look at the 2012-2013 offensive linemen that he brought in. The guys that he brought in, 90% of it was injury-related. That was the reason they didn't work out. Justice. Donald Thomas. I mean, think about the guys. the reason they didn't work out. Justice. Donald Thomas. I'll still say to this day, that was a great signing. It just didn't work out

because he got injured two or three years in a row. He was really solid for the Patriots before then. By all accounts, it was a great pickup. It just did not work out. I have never liked him in his total job as a GM, but I respect a lot of the moves he made more than a lot of people do

because not everything he did sucked. He made some really good moves in his time. Right. But, dude, I mean, think about it. Donald Thomas, Gossard chairless. Then you look at and look realistically, I was one of them. I will definitely say I was tooting, jumping around when I heard that we traded for Trent Richardson. Oh, hell yeah. Me too. I don't even care. I don't even care what people think about it. And if you're lying to yourself out there, listeners, and saying you weren't, then just smack yourself in the face because you're full of it.

No, dude, I was geeked for that. Yeah, everybody was because it was a legit opportunity for the Colts. Whoa, we've got a running back now, a dude that's big and physical and was amazing at Alabama. The guy that got picked two picks after Andrew Luck did. Yeah, legitimately. He was just as young as Luck. Two of the first three picks in the draft.

You know what I mean? In the 2012 draft. We had now on our team. And, I mean, that and then like what we've been talking about. You talk about the guys that he brought in. Those guys just didn't work out. That's not terrible. I mean, some of his stuff was garbage.

There's just no two ways about it. I'll never go against that. I'll never go against that. I'll never argue with that. But to say that he was just awful, he never addressed the offensive line position, is just ignorance. I mean, he did. It's not that he never addressed it. He just never really addressed it successfully.

Even though there were some injuries. I mean, if you factor in even relative health for Donald Thomas, Gossard, or Cherilis, then they probably have a decent offensive line to this day. Yep. I don't even know if Gossard or Cherilis was all that good then, but I tell you what, I don't remember hearing anything all that negative about him

when the Colts picked him up. At the time, he was like one of the better right tackles in the league for the Lions before the Colts had picked him up. At the time, he was one of the better right tackles in the league for the Lions before the Colts had picked him up, enough to where they gave him the richest contract in the league for a right tackle. So he had kind of earned that contract. Some of these were good signings. He had to pay top dollar for them, but they were signings that most people assumed would make the Colts better.

I mean, they just didn't work out. I'll never fault him for picking up guys that didn't work out because of injury. No one can predict that. They weren't injured before he got them. Yeah, and you know what the most common thing was, a response when Ursae was on, I remember this like it was yesterday, when Ursae was on Twitter talking about all these guys he was bringing in, when they said that they had LeRonn Landry in the building, dude, I'm telling you

99% of the replies to that tweet was, don't let him leave the building. Oh yeah, absolutely. But he was a complete and total bust. A wash. And people are still clowning on Grigson for some of these moves like that. But man, remember what you thought when it came down to the wire there. When they were bringing these guys in, we loved it too. Oh, absolutely. Because with Bill Pullian, it was like pulling teeth for him to get any sort of free agent that had any sort of recognizable name. Yep. I mean, now as an experienced seasoned football analyst, I totally respect building through the draft,

and that's probably how I would approach it as well. Free agency is not a means to an end. It's a piece to the puzzle. And that's how Bullion approached it. And Grigson, I mean mean kind of went on some spending sprees my bigger issue with grigson's acquisitions were more draft related even though he did have some really good draft finds there were some that just were dead on arrival i agree i agree with that but think about those those free agency spending times what was going on when that

happened he came in. Rebuild. The entire thing was completely, like, just gutted. There was no real option otherwise. I mean, they had to do that just to fill the 90 man, you know? Yeah. I mean, so, I mean, Ballard did it this year. You know, don't get me wrong. Ballard's contracts look a hell of a lot better than anything that Gritsen put together in the first two seasons he was here.

I mean, there was a couple of them, you know, and in the end, Eric Walden's contract ended up, which a lot of us killed because he was garbage when he came in. He definitely got better while he was in Indianapolis. He wound up being one of Gritsen's more valuable pickups. He was just very expensive. Yeah, but at the time lasted the duration of his free agent contract yep which turned out to be kind of rare for any contract that was more than a year or two not only that I think about four years four million dollars a year

in the in the initial signing of that contract that was heavy but as the second and third year came and he started getting better that was cheap cheap. And I also wonder how many of, I mean, Gregson as the GM gets, you know, he, he's going to be the face of every personnel decision that's made. But a lot of this is Pagano.

And a lot of people don't acknowledge that guys like Tom Zivikowski, you're telling me that was Gregson and not Pagano. Yeah. Zivikowski was a safety for me that was Gregson and not Pagano. Yeah. Zivikowski was a safety for Pagano just before Pagano got here. Pagano brought in a lot of people in the first few years that had a connection to him at one point or another. And a lot of them didn't work out.

Yep. Some of the guys that he fell in love with in the draft too. So I have, I, I mean, as, as much as I have disliked Gregson as a GM, I don't give Pagano any free passes either because it seems like almost any guy that he's fallen in love with and has kind of been instrumental in bringing to the team has not worked out. Not even close to working out. Corey Redding was one of the outliers.

Yep. Other than that, there hasn't been many that have been real well. I agree. I totally agree. So, Jake, you've also been working on a bunch of fantasy stuff at PFS. Yeah. What's one of the things you've come across that you kind of, as far as what you think readers or listeners today will think is maybe something outlandish that you've put together

as far as your fantasy assumptions for next year with some of the new guys? Well, you'll probably get a kick out of this, too, because you recently had Kamar Aitken among your guys that you weren't super hot on. I like him. I like him. I just think he's got a bust possibility with him. Yeah, I think maybe expectations need to be tempered a little bit. But I actually just got done with his tonight before you and I just started talking, and it'll go live tomorrow. I've analyzed – okay, let's say he beats Dorsett for the wide receiver three spot, right? Fans, a lot of time when they see a big name that they recognize,

you know, they, and they, and I'll be honest, I really do like the Kamara Aiken signing. I don't think he's going to be competing for the first or second spot or anything, but I think he will wind up comfortably in that third role at receiver.

But, uh, Lux wide receiver threes in his five years. Dorsett last year, Andre Johnson the year before, Hakeem Nicks before that, Hayward Bay before that, and then T.Y. Hilton in 2012. Those guys have only averaged, you know, throw all their stats combined, you average, comes out to 38 receptions for 521 yards and four touchdowns per year. So while Kamar Aitken might be a pretty good signing for the Colts, a lot of fans kind

of generalize it and might romanticize his role on the team to think it might be something huge. I think that stat line is probably something pretty realistic for him yeah that's interesting that you say that i mean 38 falls 500 yards and three or four touchdowns that sounds about right yeah yeah i'd agree with that too and i mean but and you think about that you know we do that i do that myself and uh oh yeah i know that a lot of we all. Oh, yeah. I know that a lot of – We all do as fans. Yeah. We're all guilty of it.

A lot of it is the, look, man, look, that's the third option. But legitimately, it's not the third option. The third option as a wide receiver is the fourth option in the offense, at least. Yeah, actually, Jack Doyle and then your receivers catch balls. Yep. You've got that, and then you've got – now, how many times is he going to go legitimately to his fourth read?

Right, yeah. And if they're smart – I mean, let's say the offensive line isn't full-on clicking yet and he's still – and Luck's still getting pressured a lot. They'll eventually need to work in some quick passes for him and quit dropping him back for so long. And they will. He won't be the fourth option on every single play. I just mean when everybody's healthy, everybody's in the game,

and everybody's got a breather, he's going to be the fourth option in that offense at best. That's if he beats out Dorsett. Dorsett and Chester Rogers, I mean, let's say Dorsett is even on par with what he's done his first couple years he's still going to be a deep threat and will have earned playing time he's at a decoy at worst you know he'll he'll be out there at times Chester Rogers I would imagine will at least get a little better and will earn some playing time so there's a lot of looks to go

around and Aiken may be a valuable, and he may be very dependable and sure-handed and will move the chains and score some touchdowns. But from a fantasy perspective, he's probably not going to be a guy, number one, that you want on your consistent roster, and he's probably only going to be a guy that you play if you're in bi-week hell that week yep that's true so so then what's your what's your thought process on on marlon mac then marlon mac um if i kind of boil down the are you talking about just from a fantasy perspective or just kind of in general for fantasy this year. Yeah, fantasy.

It's kind of hard to project because Robert Turbin is going to have, I think, a prominent role in the offense. And I think Frank Gore, I don't feel like they have feeling they need to preserve him anymore. He could still be like a 15-carrier per game guy gore and then you give turban at least five carries maybe a couple catches in there mac unless he just comes in and blows the door off and is a big time playmaker all the time he's probably not going to be a guy you want to have on your roster outside of keeper leagues and dynasty setups, at least not initially. I mean, as the season progresses, I could be totally wrong,

and he could prove to be such a playmaker that he hops over a turban and you know they may even you know cut into gore carries even more for him you never know but sitting here right now i know he has a lot of work until he becomes a consistent nfl running back just because his system was not nfl based we haven't really seen him in a traditional pass protection role. So if he's not good at that, that right away will keep him off of the field. Yeah. Just traditional handoffs from a single back set with the quarterback under center. There's just so much we don't know. Right now I'm considering him an unknown. I think he will eventually develop into a really good player, but as a rookie, I don't have super high hopes,

at least from a fantasy perspective. Yeah. I mean, he has the ability to, you know, I think we've – I don't remember if it was you and I talking about it or not, but I think that he's got some of that ability to shine a little bit like Donald Brown in his final year with his contract. Yeah, we've compared him to Donald Brown before. Okay, I thought that was you.

I was pretty certain that it was, but I didn't want to say that and then be wrong. I don't know that that – I mean, I don't even know that it would be quite to that extent, to be honest with you. But I think ultimately, in the way that Brown played in his contract year, that's what you want out of the guy, at least to have some flashes of that in his initial year. Because Gore what you want out of the guy, at least to have some flashes of that in his initial year. Because Gore isn't going to be any different. Gore's going to be Gore.

Turbin's going to be Turbin. The ability for Mack to come in and be a reliable pass catcher out of the backfield, the reliability for him to come in when Gore needs a breather or when Gore possibly gets injured or anything like that. He's going to have to be ready. And kind of what we talked about earlier is he's going to have to be ready for all this.

And right now at OTAs, without Gore there, it's a perfect time for him to get those snaps. I think he could wind up being a more effective Josh Ferguson this year because, I mean, Ferguson did see plenty of reps last year. But as a runner, he could never make anything happen, even in the preseason. I think Mack is a better runner than Ferguson is. Ferguson is a very advanced pass catcher for a running back.

So he's, you know, better than most running backs at pass catching, but you want your running back to be a good runner. So I think Mack could be kind of in that Josh Ferguson role that Ferguson was in last year, but just a better runner, which will lead to him getting more carries i've kind of pictured him as as a baseline of a guy who could be a third the third down back when the distance is five or longer you know maybe get him out in space on a screen and see what he can do because he's the fastest of the running back group excluding ferguson uh i i think he's the biggest home run threat that the Colts have at running back. So third and medium or longer, I think, is going to be his initial start out. Yeah.

But, I mean, what did Ferguson do last year catching the ball that made anybody wow? Nothing. I mean, I don't know. He just can catch the ball. Yeah. Okay, a natural pass catcher. Yeah, nothing happened after. He just can catch it. Right, right. Okay, so he's a natural pass catcher. I, yeah. Okay. A natural, natural. Yeah. Nothing happened after he just can catch it. Right. Right. Okay. So he's a natural pass catcher. I'm good with that. That dude,

he did nothing after the catch last year. Well, I don't think they utilize him, right? I don't, he's not really a traditional running back. You, you have to get him out in space, and I think you have to hit him on the move. I don't think you can just hit him on a screen where you're waiting for blockers to develop in front of him. I think you almost have to get him on a slant, something where he's already moving and doesn't really have to break much of his stride. Yeah. Because he can do some damage in the open field, but as soon as he gets surrounded, he's done. Yeah, that's true. I mean, he could. And you can see that was evident last year that he could.

It just, every time I'm like, okay, there's some space. Still, one-arm tackles coming down. You know, I just was like, God, what is this guy going to break out, do something? He's got to step up because that Dalton crossing, we already know that – I don't even know how to say a guy's name. But we already know Chris Ballard kind of likes him because he said he's a guy to look out for this offseason,

that undrafted free agent. He's a good pass catcher. Apparently he's not as athletic and has the wiggle that Ferguson does, but it's not all about athleticism all the time. It's how effective you can be with what you've got. Yeah, and there's Radcliffe from Louisville. I didn't like him initially, but I watched a little more tape on him. I started to warm up to him a little bit.

He's got some nice moves. He's got something there. He's another methodical runner. He's not special, but he can get the job done. Yeah. I don't know. I just really wanted them to give Turbin an opportunity last year because Ferguson was just stinking up the joint. And I just wanted Turbin to be one of their third options, you know,

out of the passing game or something. And then he just never really accumulated anything. And the only thing he did really was run that kickoff back against Green Bay, which was awesome because that was the beginning of just a shellacking of Green Bay in Green Bay. And see, that was Todman. That wasn't even Ferguson. No, I said Turbin even, and I meant Todman. Oh, yeah.

I said Turbin like twice even. I meant Todman. No, Turbin, I think, kind of earned a bigger role for this year. He was pretty effective. And I think with how picky chris ballard has shown to be uh especially with the colts free agents that wound up hitting free agency this year compared to how many he actually brought back he didn't have to do that with turban he obviously saw something there yeah i think so too i think a lot of us saw it too. He's a bigger guy and he can gash you for some yards if you get him out in space.

I think he could be a really effective player getting more snaps. I'm just really curious to see how they divvy things up this year. Because part of me thinks, number one, they're not preparing for a deep playoff run and it's his last year under contract so i kind of think they're just gonna let frank gore do whatever i don't know how many carries that means but i don't think they're gonna be playing it safe with him like i i feel like there was probably a little bit of conservation of him the last couple years because they told us that the whole time at least early

in the year but i don't see much point in it this year like if the guy's got the hot hand or something just keep going to him yeah not gonna hurt let's uh let's transition over a little bit to something you wanted to talk about for sure was the nfl 100 series that they've got going right now. Let's start with our guy first at 61 was T.Y. Hilton. Now, I'm asking you specifically, do you have any issues with that ranking as far as 61, the number? Not so much of any of the players around it. 61, no. But on the wrap-up show for that, I think they said there was like 10 or 11 other receivers that were going to be named ahead of him inside those next 60 picks.

That I have a huge problem with. Yes. I don't think he's a top five guy or anything, but I've watched this show for several years now. Every year when it comes on, it's all about what have you done for me lately. And what Hilton has done for the league lately is lead it in yards. It's more than Beckham, Green, Julio Jones, Mike Evans. He led the league in receiving.

And he has gone over 1,000 yards each of the last four years and over 1,300 yards each of the last four years and over 1,300 yards two of the last three years. He is, even when luck's not in there, Hilton is Mr. Reliable. So, and considering I think two years ago he was ranked number 35. So, I know he was not ranked last year because the Colts had just a crap year. Their 2015 performance got him unranked for last year's 2016 list. Um, 61 understanding how the list works because I watched it every year. I don't mind that. I do not like that. The fact that there's like 10 or 11 other receivers ahead of him. I don't agree with that. Yeah, let's start with the one that sticks out to me,

and he's actually not the first. I mean, Des Bryant was 60. I wouldn't argue necessarily with somebody saying Des Bryant's better than T.Y. Hilton as far as just in general. You know what I'm saying? Now, you can argue stats and reliability and role and all that stuff if you want to. My issue is how the hell does Amari Cooper get 53? I know he's up and coming, and he's a very good, well-balanced player.

He's so unreliable in the second half of the season. Well, he killed me. He ruined my fantasy season. Me too. Two years in a me. He ruined my fantasy season. Mine too. Two years in a row. I'm bitter about that. I started him in a championship game when I wanted with everything in my heart to start

Taylor Gabriel, but I said I have to start Amari Cooper because if I don't and I lose because of it, I'll not forgive myself. And he went and crapped the bed on me. So, I'm still bitter about that. Me too. I think maybe I'm bitter, but I still don't understand it.

Don't tell me that Amari Cooper is better than T.Y. Hilton. I'm not listening to that. I would even say, I don't think Dez Bryant is either. I think Dez Bryant is pretty inconsistent as well. And he may not be. And I agree with you. But, that's, I mean, when

you look at the overall talent and what he has, that he has the ability to do and what he has shown, uh, I'm, I'm having a hard time arguing with that. Uh, but when it comes to, uh, uh, Amari Cooper, uh, I'm sorry, that's going to be an argument. I agree. Like I said, I don't think T.Y. is a top five guy, but he's top eight. What else does he have to do? He proves it every year. I understand he is smaller than people like, but all he can do with the size that he's been given is go out and perform, and that's exactly what he does.

Now, when we get to the next guy on the board, obviously Andrew Luck is number 51 with that. I mean, I guess I think that it's okay. I mean, I'm not, I'm not necessarily saying that we should argue this.

He has injured season under him. You know, he started, I wouldn't even say he's down a downhill slope but he hasn't been the guy he was the first three years uh necessarily last year he had a fantastic season i think if there's an argument against it that would be it aside from the injury part of it you know over the last couple years but i mean i, I just, I don't know. This one, it seems a bit perplexing to me. I'm not so sure that I agree with it. What do you say?

Yeah, just it's because of the injuries and the Colts going 8-8 each of the last two years. That's why. But what baffles me a little bit is it's all on the players that decide this. The players, I think it's a panel of like 400 players or something. They voted on this, and this is where the rankings come from. I've literally never heard an opposing player say anything but just glaring reviews about Andrew. So I don't understand how he's not always like in the top 30 or 40.

And I do know because of the Colts performance as a team and his injuries, that knocks him a little bit, which is why I understand why it's 50 on this. But I, I have a feeling when some of the other quarterbacks that come out on this list, I'm probably going to be a little upset about it. Cause I mean,

Blake Bortles was ahead of luck last year, I think. Which is ridiculous. Just stupid stuff like that. It's almost ridiculous to the point where you just don't pay attention to it. You just almost can't

entertain it. It is hard. It's hard not to want to argue it, but at the same time, you know, it, it's just conversation. It's something you got to talk about, you know, it's, it's just impossible not to argue it as well when it seems a little, you know, annoying and it's something that's come up several times. And especially like you said, last year, a guy like Bortles goes ahead of him and that's a little's a little ridiculous. So what else you got, brother? Well, let's see.

Now that we're in the OTA season, I'm not super worried about the injuries right now because they're off-season things, and we're not even at training camp yet. So we don't know what's a true threat to any of these guys' seasons. But, you know, Luck is still out recovering from his shoulder surgery malik hooker recovering from uh hip labrum and uh not shoulder labrum but hip labrum and sports hernia surgery uh let's see kendall langford still kind of getting rested up from his knee we don't really know anything about quincy wilson's lower leg but by all accounts

that i've seen he's supposed to be fine it's very precautionary when they throw boots on guys nowadays it looks a lot worse than it is but the biggie is uh clayton gethers i'll be honest i'm not trying to i'm not trying to sound the alarm and be all dramatic, but I legitimately fear for his future as a football player. Yep. George and I talked about this on Wednesday's show. Yeah. We were in the same boat with this. We talked about some of the injuries, like Langford and those guys sitting out,

like what that kind of means for the future, at least this year. But Gethers, I agree with you. I'm totally on board with you. That's frightening because and he he was talking about you know and we both kind of were talking about how it's a little reminiscent of you know bob sanders and delano how uh those two guys you know show i'm not i mean obviously sanders was a a guy who was around for a while, but he was often injured towards the end of his career with the Colts.

But Delano Howe showed a ton of possibility back there, and then he was just gone, man, after his neck deal. Yeah, he was a promising player, a hard-hitting, strong safety. I think it was one play that hurt his neck he went on ir the rest of that year if i remember correctly and then never recovered enough to make the team the next season through camp and was never heard of again yeah and then gathers i mean i i don't know the the injury i don't i'm not going to pretend to be a doctor, but I don't know that his neck injury was as serious as Peyton's, for example. But Peyton is a quarterback, and Gethers is essentially a linebacker.

He's a strong safety, but he plays in the box enough to be a linebacker. He has a neck injury. He's a hitter. Yeah, he is in a position that is constantly affecting his head, neck, and back. And number one, his body obviously didn't fix that issue on its own. So you don't know how quick of a healer he is. So, I mean, yes, he had surgery, which may fix the issue for now, but what's his long-term prognosis?

I mean, it's scary to think that we may already be done with seeing Clayton Gathers. Yeah, that's awful. Maybe he comes back. Let's say he starts the season on Pup and still comes back this year, but things aren't right. I mean, we just don't know how it's going to go. He's such a physical player. It's hard to imagine that being something he can play with for eight more years.

Right. Well, man, the thing is he fits so perfectly with what the Colts want to do. He does. He's a perfect building block for them on defense. He's one of those guys that he easily probably fit into Chris Ballard's plans. He's looking at the defense like, okay, well, yeah, we obviously have to have Gathers in there as one of the guys to plug in and build around as one of our young pieces.

Right. And now we, you know, he as a player and we as fans may get, you know, cheated out of that again. Right. Well, and not only that, but I mean, look, he's the perfect piece at that position. You know, and people constantly, when we talk about safeties, oh, don't forget position you know and people constantly when we talk about safeties oh don't forget you know the safeties aren't necessarily free safety strong safety in pagano's system man get off that train okay because these guys are not intermixable i mean when you look at gethers and you look at uh hooker those two guys are not the same position okay no

one of them is just a clear strong safety one is a clear free safety like mike adams is one of the only starting caliber guys who literally could do both for pagano over the last several years right and if you want to look at the way they play you could say that butler is too but he's not physical enough he's not durable enough i mean i'm not saying gethers has obviously got a nasty injury right now. So talking about durability, but I mean, when you look at his physical stature, you know, he's gotten a little bit bigger, I guess, since he's, you know, known that he's coming back to be a safety, but that dude, he's just not, he's 30 something and he's not built to be the enforcer in there. And, you know, not too long ago, I brought this up to you

before I wrote it, but I ended up writing a piece on fan rag that was talking about the way that they're building this secondary in this linebacking core. They have a little more possibility to move to a cover three a little bit more often in there, which gives this defense like some significant alterations within their scheme allows for a lot of play in there. I mean, you've got Gethers to take care of the flats or to bite on those crossing routes and just light people up. You've got Hooker, deep middle, who can rotate to either side and play that role that he was drafted to play.

And then now you've got another guy opposite Vontae Davis who can also be in press tech all the time. You know, they've constantly had guys opposite him like Toler and Robinson last year where those guys were often in off-man coverage, whereas Vontae had to be the guy in press tech. And now they can both do that, put them both on an island. Maybe that's not ideal initially but then you've also got the guys uh that they've got they're trying to get in there with Hairston

and then they have Rashawn Melvin another another uh guy who can play in the slot and they've just got so many building pieces to be able to move coverages around and that's interesting and without Gethers a lot of that breaks down it does there's because I mean Gethers, a lot of that breaks down. It does. There's – because, I mean, Gethers has his own injury issues, and like you said, Butler does as well. And Butler isn't super versatile, only just realistically thinking about his durability because, I mean, not to mention because of his instincts and, you know, ball skills, you almost have to play him at free safety because if you want an eternal, Not to mention, because of his instincts and ball skills,

you almost have to play him at free safety because if you want any turnovers, it would be smart to send him back there deep. And you don't know what TJ Green even is yet, honestly. He can be kind of a physical player. He can be kind of a physical player. He can be kind of a physical player, but at the same time he's got great speed and things like that, but struggled in coverage

last year. Without Gethers, the whole group does become a lot less diverse, it seems. We hope for the best for him as a person, but for the best for him as a person. But for the Colts, selfishly looking at them as a team, I mean, their defense gets less creative without him.

Yeah, it absolutely does. I mean, because they just, like we've already spoken about several times now, they just don't have that other guy on the roster that really does what he does within that defense. I mean, you know, who are they going to do that at Strongman? I mean, does Tyson Graham, is that one of those guys? Andrew Williamson, Lee Hightower, Matthias Farley?

None of those guys can do what Gethers does. I mean, I don't know about Graham, so I'm not going to speak on him for that matter. Graham is big, I know. But, I mean, Clayton Gathers isn't just a stocky guy. He's also got great closing speed and instincts. Yep. The instincts you can't teach. That's just something that sets those type of guys apart.

So you just never know know yeah i agree and from watching matthias farley at notre dame he is a strong safety because he's more effective in the box but he's not he's not that type of playmaker and just play ender for opposing offenses that Gathers is. So Gathers is the only one that brought that to the table. Yeah. I'm interested to see, and we get to the, we're talking about secondary real quick, and I'm kind of interested to see what that Dante Blackman does, what he brings to the table if they start talking about him.

One of the guys that George was telling me the other day that keeps coming up, you know how this happens every year, that certain guys just keep getting brought up and brought up that kind of seems like out of the blue but uh you can tell that all the coaching staff and and people watching are really paying attention to him and one of them was luke rhodes the inside linebacker the guy he was on the roster last year they even have like one or two long snappers now and i saw pictures the other day of him still getting in some snaps um luke rhodes yeah he was before they had their after they got rid of overton and that other guy they had signed this year uh forest something uh and before they brought thomas hennessey and

luke rhodes was the long snapper at the very beginning of the offseason program the linebacker was yeah really yep he was uh he was snapping for him and so it shows his versatility yeah and i mean to be completely honest with you i think it makes sense if if they keep him doing that in training camp and battling with Thomas Hennessey and Luke Rhodes is pretty good at it, then why not keep him because he also brings versatility as a linebacker. Yeah, for sure, man. That might be one of those too-good-to-be-true scenarios. But let's hope that Luke Rhodes is a phenomenal long snapper,

like the best long snapper ever if he wants to do that, because that would be great to have another linebacker on the roster and have it not – I mean, one guy's taking two positions. That would be phenomenal. You just don't see that happen very often, and that would be great because that adds more talent. That allows another spot for somebody else that can come in and legitimately play.

The only issue is they only have so many active guys on each week, each game day. Yeah. Well, that's kind of my thinking is they don't have to have a long snapper on the roster. They can just keep him on as a linebacker and a long snapper. Yeah. Well, Jake, appreciate you dropping by again and chatting it up with me, man.

It's good to catch up with you. I know that you're a busy dude over there at Pro Football Spot, but tell everybody where they can catch you on Twitter and everything else that you're doing. Yes, you can catch me on Twitter at JakeArthurPFS, also on Facebook, JakeArthur, comma, Pro Football Spot. Right now, my team and I, we're in the middle of putting out our 2017 fantasy football profiles for the Colts,

getting in our camp battles by position. You know, I think we're just wrapped up as of today with our kind of deep dives on the Colts draft picks. Got a feature piece for each of them. Anthony Walker just came out today. So go check us out. Absolutely. Make sure you guys are all subscribing to the podcast.

Get in there and give us a rating and review. Really appreciate those. And you guys can catch me as well on Twitter at mdanley__nfl. You can catch the show at LockedOnColts. And we'll catch you guys all next week. Make sure you guys all have a safe and fun Memorial Day. Get them grills fired up. Get the coolers full.

And have a great weekend, guys. We'll see you next week right here on Locked on Colts. You are Locked on Colts, your daily podcast on the Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. We'll see you next time.