Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 5/26/20: What if Peyton Manning never injured his neck?

Episode Date: May 26, 2020

On today's episode, we begin What If Week here on Locked On Colts. Our first subject revolves around arguably the most intriguing scenario. What if Peyton Manning never sat out the 2011-12 season due to neck surgery? George Bremer of The Herald Bulletin joins to dive deep into it.If Manning was fully healthy, not only do the Colts make the playoffs but Andrew Luck is never a realistic draft option. Also, Manning plays in Indianapolis at least another five years, if not longer.Pandora's box is opened completely in this podcast. So many different avenues this franchise goes down if Manning never misses a game with the Colts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I sure have loved playing football for the Indianapolis Colts. For 14 wonderful years, the only professional football I've known has been Colts football. Our team won a lot of games here. I've played with so many great teammates here, and I've been part of a great organization here, an organization and an owner who I respect and continue to respect. I've been a Colt for almost all of my adult life, but I guess in life and in sports, we all know that nothing lasts forever. It truly has been an honor to play in Indianapolis.

I do love it here. I love the fans, and I will always enjoy having played for such a great team. I will leave the Colts with nothing but good thoughts and gratitude to Jim, the organization, my teammates, the media, and especially the fans. I haven't thought yet about where I'll play but I have thought a lot about where I've been and I've truly been blessed. I've been blessed to play here. I've been blessed to be in the NFL and as I go, I go with just a few words left to say,

a few words I want to address to Colts fans everywhere. Thank you very much from the bottom of my heart. I truly have enjoyed being your quarterback. With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the Indianapolis Colts select Andrew Luck, quarterback Stanford. Hello everybody, welcome back into your latest episode of Locked on Colts, probably Locked on Podcast Network. Today's audience is Evan Sutter, joined by a very special guest today's show, George Bremer of the Harold Bolton, the Colts beat writer. How you doing today, George? Good, how are you? Doing great. I'm glad to have you on because I'm really excited to unveil our What If Week on the podcast here.

I hope everyone enjoyed their Memorial Day as well. I think this is a very fun topic to start off with here, George, because, of course, you covered Peyton Manning's whole career in Indianapolis, but what happens to this Colts team if Peyton Manning never enters his neck? What if he doesn't stay out that whole entire 2011-12 season? Just before we dive into that whole topic, George, what was it like, just looking back in hindsight, covering a talent and a quarterback like Peyton Manning up close?

Yeah, you know, I was there early on when he was there, and I really wasn't around the team a whole lot then. I was really just doing a few home games, and then I was there towards the end of his run in Indy, and it was really interesting to see sort of the aura around him. And I say that, you know, as a guy who probably one of the more interesting moments I've had in my career was several years ago now, probably close to 20 years maybe in that neighborhood,

when Michael Jordan was with the Washington Wizards. They came to Indianapolis to play, and I think Jordan had six points. It was one of the worst games of his career, and it was definitely towards the end for him. Everybody knew that, you know, he was going to be hanging up very shortly. But even at that point in time, even on a team that wasn't going to the playoffs, even as part of a group that really wasn't anywhere near his heyday with Bulls, there was this aura about him. Everybody was waiting in the visiting locker room for him to come in, and my back was to

the door that he eventually entered, but you could tell he came into the room just by the way the air changed. I can't really explain it any other way. You didn't need to see him. You knew he was there. Everything in the room changed from the time that he was in there. And I remember there was like a line of reporters going up to shake his hand after the game, after he was done talking,

because there was that kind of respect, that kind of understanding that this was probably going to be his last time in Indianapolis. And I felt like it was very much the same with Manning. There was this aura. When he was in the locker room, when there was media availability, you knew it whether or not you saw him. It didn't matter. The way he carried himself, the way people reacted around him,

it was really just a whole different experience. Yeah, and I really think a player like Peyton Manning had that exact same aura. Because we know George, you obviously covered him up close throughout his career. And growing up in Indianapolis myself, like Peyton Manning truly did change the state of Indiana and the city of Indianapolis into a football city, a football state. And I think it was pretty incredible to watch this up close because you saw like every year as the Colts continue to be good and continue to have sustained success and pay many points the numbers he did multiple MVP awards all pro year after year the Colts are winning village of games what was it like just to see that shift in the state and the city you

covered George just going from a true Pacers town where basketball has grown there to really becoming a Colts city just because of number 18. To me, that's the most incredible thing about his career. All the things he's done, winning a Super Bowl, setting all the records, putting this franchise really on the NFL map for all and for the purposes. As far as the Indiana portion of it goes, I mean, obviously there was a history in Baltimore, but I think prior to Peyton Manning, you had Eric Dickerson,

you had that great playoff run with Jim Harbaugh, and there really wasn't much to hang your hat on for the Indianapolis Colts. He came in, he changed all of that. They're a primetime, you know, spotlight team. People wanted the Colts on their channel. They wanted tickets. You know, there's Col People wanted the Colts on their channel. They wanted tickets. You know, there's Colts fans all across the country. To me, one of the biggest, most interesting things about Manning's legacy,

obviously Lucas Oil Stadium is here because of him. You can make the argument the Colts are here still because of him. But I think one of the biggest testaments to what he meant to football in general in Indiana and beyond came when we were talking to Jacob Eason after he got drafted this spring and Jacob Eason who grew up near Seattle across the country about as far from Indianapolis as you can be grew up a Colts fan had a Peyton Manning jersey wore it to school as an elementary school kid it just that's the kind of impact this guy had and to watch the change it had on the state of Indiana,

but the city of Indianapolis in particular, where you go through now and you look at the MIT and the level of play in that conference and the way programs like Warren Central and Indianapolis Cathedral and Lawrence Central, Lawrence North, countless teams down there that have played good football. Carmel's been good for years, even before Manning was here. But the level of play in that conference as a whole has gone up

significantly. And so much of that can be traced back to Peyton Manning putting money through his foundation into facilities at these high schools, building new fields in some cases, adding weight rooms, adding equipment, really just sinking money into those programs, giving them a stage to play, you know, the Payback Foundation, I think it was four to eight games every year, being played at the RCA Dome and then later Lucas Oil Stadium. That kind of thing, I think, is immeasurable. That, the Children's Hospital with his name on it. His legacy in Indiana and in Indianapolis in particular will go on for generations. Yeah, it truly will. And the legend is Peyton Manning.

He's changed the entire focal point of Indianapolis and Colts football itself. But I want to dive in, George, to this what-if scenario because the last year Peyton Manning played, of course, 2010-11. He had 619 pass attempts at a career high at that point. He only had 17 picks. I know it's a little high for Peyton, but he was a risk taker sometimes. 4,700 yards, 33 touchdowns. Then the next season, he misses because of neck fusion surgery.

He had four surgeries in over a year and a half span. What was it like, George, just during that season, 2010-11, and going into 2011-12 when we find out later, right before the season started pretty much, that Peyton was not going to play in 2011-12. What was it like around the facility at that point? Yeah, 2011 was really like my first full-time year as far as being down there every week and doing features and game previews and things like that, being actually on the beat as a full-time guy. And it was really just surreal because I think, you know,

obviously that was the year of the strike to begin with, and that was creating its own issues. You know, there were a lot of really interesting off-season things that were – it was much like it is right now honestly as far as restrictions people weren't in the buildings uh the medical people couldn't get their hands on the players and so nobody really had an understanding i think of how serious the situation was for manning until training camp opened that year and i still remember they came to camp and i think day one he signed the new contract extension that was the famous quote at that point,

and I'm happy to sign a contract that will make me a Colt for life. And everybody still at that point had a great deal of confidence that things would go well and the season would be like any other. They were coming off a pretty disappointing loss to the Jets in the playoffs the year before, but I think there was a sense of urgency with that team because everybody knew some of the reckoning that came was going to anyway in terms of guys leaving this franchise, long-tenured players, because the salary cap was in such a shambles

that you weren't going to be able to keep everybody. That's what happens when you win. You know what I mean? And that you see it all over the league. At some point you get to the point that you cannot pay everyone. And, uh, you know, it's, it's just the reality of the NFL. But I think because of that, there was a sense that this group of guys, Sreeny, Sanders, Clark, uh, Gary Brackett, Jeff Saturday, Antoine Bethea,

Peyton Manning, you know, that kind of core group, maybe even Reggie Wayne, this was the last time that they were going to be together, that they would be, you know, on the same roster and all as one unit. And I think that because of that, expectations were pretty high. The thought was they knew, you know, really had to go for it again this year. They had everything in place to make that happen. And then as training camp kind of wore on, it became more and more clear and more and more obvious that Manning, something was significantly wrong. You know, he wasn't – he was completely out of the public eye. Whatever throwing he was doing was being done behind the scenes.

And then, you know know i think when it really hit everyone was right before week four of the preseason game that year uh they signed carrie collins and it was it was pretty evident that he was going to miss at least some significant time and then the year was surreal throughout because the season itself, there were rumors almost every week, you know, he's doing this, he's doing that. I remember specifically late in the year, they were playing on a Thursday night or they're playing on a Sunday against the Titans. And it was the first win of the season.

And before that game, there were all these rumors that he was going to do a private workout at the facility and he might be activated for the Thursday night game against the And before that game, there were all these rumors that he was going to do a private workout at the facility and he might be activated for the Thursday night game against the Texans. And people were kind of scratching their heads, trying to wonder why you would even do it at that point in the year. And, you know, that ended up being a disaster on its own. But it was such a crazy season because I think nobody saw it coming. You're coming out of the strike anyway.

It was going to be a weird year no matter what. And then you lose your quarterback at a time when nobody thought that was going to happen. And it just, as the losses piled up, you could just see the confidence drain from that locker room. Colts fans, I hope you're enjoying our What If week here on Locked on Colts. That's really the most intriguing scenarios, what could have been for this Indianapolis Colts team in certain scenarios.

And this one definitely takes the cake, at least for starting off this week, because Peyton Manning, what could have been with him is truly incredible. Probably another four or five years. We're going to continue the conversation on with George Berman here in just a second. But I want to remind you guys about our favorite sponsor, the best tasting protein bar ever, which is Built Bar. It is a protein bar that tastes just like a candy bar. 16 amazing flavors, the 8 chocolate nut flavors and 8 chocolate nut free flavors.

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Colts fans, go to BiltBar.com and use promo code LOCKEDON, L-O-C-K-E-D-O-N, and you'll get $10 out of your first order of Bilt Bars. Again, go to use promo code LOCKEDON, L-O-C-K-E-D-O-N for $10 off of BiltBar.com. Colts fans, take advantage of this deal right away. Yeah, and that's the thing I want to hit on next, George. What was the point, like you mentioned, it was your first year really on the full-time beat with the Colts 2011-12. When was the

first time you really started noticing, I mean, the Colts, of course, you had Curtis Painter, Kerry Collin, Dan Orlovsky at quarterback there, and that's a loss container pile up there. When was the first time you really started to notice and you thought to yourself, are the Colts really going to get the number one pick? Are they really going to somehow look into Andrew Luck, and what's that going to do for Peyton Manning?

When did that first cross your mind? Yeah, I think early in the year it was kind of almost a joke. You know, it was this sort of idea of like, oh, the Colts might end up with the number one overall pick. But I don't think it really – you know, first month or so of the season, I don't think that was really settled in. People from really from the get-go, you know know the way the opening game went against the Texans there was a real feeling that it was going to be a rough season and there was going to be you know some really difficult moments but you know it's easy to forget they were

competitive in some of those early games they played a great game against Steelers at home and that's the game that Collins ends up getting hurt in and is done for the season Painter came in and did a decent job in that one they led Kansas City at halftime a couple weeks later uh they were ahead against Tampa Bay you know there were a lot of close losses early in that year uh that made you think well this is this is not a good team this is not a playoff team but it's not the worst team in the league they won't get the number one pick and it was probably around week six week seven uh when you can just kind of see things starting to the weight starting to really break this team's back and and i think the moment probably not just me but but everybody kind of really started to feel like uh it was over and the number one pick was a real possibility

was that blowout loss in New Orleans on Sunday Night Football. I think it was like 62-7. It was the kind of score you expect from like Notre Dame against directional Louisiana school, not an NFL game. And it was stunning to see that night that this team, even without Peyton May, would be that far behind another professional football team. And it was then that everybody started to be number one pick. But even then, I think there was a lot of talk until really like March.

Well, not quite March. Probably around the time of the Super Bowl. Up until then, there was really a lot of talk that they would try to keep both guys on the roster. You could make the salaries work. You could draft Luck and keep him as insurance in case Manning's shoulder didn't come around. I think around the time the Super Bowl started to happen in Indy and there was all that national media in town and an atmosphere unlike any other I can remember at any time, really, in this city, in this state. It was around that time that it became kind of obvious that that wasn't going to work.

They were going to have to choose one or the other. You couldn't really have luck sit for a couple years. And I don't think Manning really wanted to be in a situation where he was holding back a number one pick or having somebody breathing down his neck like that. So it was really, like everything else that season, it was really kind of a long, drawn-out thing. But even after the pollions were dismissed,

that was really the first big sign that maybe they were going with major, major changes. But even after that, even after Jim Caldwell was let go, there was still some thought, well, maybe, maybe they'll try to start the new regime with Manning and give him a heads up that way. And then it just, like I said, right around the Super Bowl, it became clear that just wasn't something that was going to work.

Yeah, for Peyton Manning, for those wondering out there, he had an anterior cervical disectomy infusion, or an ACDF as they like to call it. If that didn't happen, George, that 2011-12 season, how good is this Colts? And I think you mentioned it was really the final hurrah for that core that was brought together in the late 90s, early 2000s. Do you think that Colts team is on the cusp of winning a title in 2011-12? Because, of course, as you mentioned, I don't think the Polans are let go in

2012 if Manning is hurt. I think a lot of things change if Peyton never has his neck injured. Yeah, it's really incredible. For one thing, Andrew Luck's not here because there's no way they have another one pick if Peyton Manning's not injured. It wouldn't even have been a thought in anybody's mind to do something like that. So that whole era would have looked completely different. And I think what's really interesting to me about it is even when that Super Bowl

was awarded to Indianapolis and certainly going into that year, there was a lot of thought that this is the best chance that we've seen for the team that's hosting the Super Bowl to play in it. It's sort of like Tampa this year. To get Tom Brady, now people are thinking, hey, you know, this is more than the sort of pipe dream that it is every year. You know, whoever's hosting tends to think they're going to be the team that goes. But there was real thought that, hey, this Indianapolis team,

they've got that kind of potential. They've got that kind of run in them. And so I think that was one of the many disappointments about the way things played out. You know, obviously they didn't even get close, didn't have a chance to play in that Super Bowl. And then, of course, Tom Brady and the Patriots are the AFC champion that year. Kind of put salt in the wound for the Indianapolis fans.

But if you look at what happened in Denver, I think it's not crazy to think that there's another Super Bowl or two, you know, on that resume here in Indianapolis if Manning sticks around. Yes, that Denver defense was outstanding, and certainly the last year in particular, that defense carried that team to the Super Bowl title. But in this scenario, we're talking about Manning not being injured, and it makes me wonder how many more years he could have played because there's no doubt that injury and the recovery from it played a role

in him deteriorating the way he did, you know, en route to winning Super Bowl 50. But you look at his mental ability and the way that he was able to, even without his best stuff Dwight Freeney and and Gary Brackett and Antoine Bethea and the folks that were here and were let go and as we mentioned many of them would have been anyway uh even with younger teams you would think that they they would have been one of the best teams in the AFC as long as Peyton Manning was under center it didn't get fair to say George I mean looking at Tom Brady for example he's 42 old. Now I'm going on Tampa Bay and maybe he plays till he's 43, 44. Peyton just turned 44 in March. Do you think it's fair to say he plays into his 40s if this injury doesn't happen?

I think that's the great unknown. You know, to me, that's the saddest part about this one, if because I just, again, I think his mental ability, the way he read the field, the way he was always not just one step but two three four steps ahead of everybody else I think it would have given him a chance you know as long as his body held up I think it would have given him a chance to play for a very very long time um it's hard to even really put a number on when that would be but I don't think it's crazy to think that he would have been 40 41 42 and still have been the starting quarterback here in indianapolis if he was healthy because i you know i just heard a story again i think it was earlier today or yesterday somebody talking about uh the many many things that made

peyton manning who he was i think was jay glazer was mentioning it uh in his mailbag on the athletic that every year when he went to the Pro Bowl, Manning would sit down at the bar with whoever he could find and just pick their brains about all things football because he was constantly learning and he was constantly looking for a way to get better and constantly looking for an advantage. And so it didn't matter. Defensive players, wide receivers, other quarterbacks, coaches, there was always something that he could learn from them that might give him an advantage on a future Sunday and

to me that kind of mentality you know I don't think it's crazy at all to think he would have played until he's 40 41 42 if his arm would have would have held up and allowed him to yeah over his last three years in Denver before like you mentioned the Super Bowl season where he hurt his I believe his ankle and he missed a couple games here and there he had 131 touchdowns and only 36 interceptions over the first three years in Denver. Of course, he threw for over 5,000 yards, 55 touchdowns, and won MVP in 2013-14 for the Broncos. But I think it's just really interesting, George, diving into the scenario

because I think it's fair to say, like we talked about before, Payton's probably still around until maybe a couple years ago. Pullian's probably still staying in place until Bill probably transitions to Chris Pullian being the GM at that point. How different do you think the front office structure looks here? Because, of course, I think if Peyton stays around Georgia, there's probably no Chris Ballard either. Yeah, I can't imagine Chris Ballard would be here, you know, if Peyton Manning had stayed healthy and gone through that stretch. I think Jim Caldwell would probably still be the head coach.

I mean, that's another one of these things. You know, he was really close with Peyton, close enough that Manning was instrumental in getting him the job with the Lions. You know, he put in a word for him and then spoke up and, you know, helped that to come to pass. It's really kind of crazy to think about some of the other things too, some of the ancillary things. Is Adam Gase a head coach in the NFL if Peyton Manning doesn't go out to Denver and take off without offense and put Adam Gase on the map? You know, maybe eventually, but probably not as quickly as he was, probably not in Miami on that first run. You know, there's so many.

I think Gary Kubiak's got a Super Bowl ring as a head coach, and a lot of that has to do with Peyton Manning and the culture that he created, the ceiling that he raised in Denver. It's not just the Colts who are changed. I think it's so many things about the NFL that would be different today if Manning hadn't been injured. How would John Elway's tenure in Denver look? Things are on the upswing again for them now.

It looks like Drew Locke's a good pick. They're definitely a team that could be improved and could make a playoff run this year. But if he doesn't have that Super Bowl on his resume, would he have even made it to this point? You know, there's a lot of really intriguing things, I think, from Indy and outside of Indy. A lot of people's careers changed and affected.

I don't know if Reggie Wayne would have been able to stick around. Part of the reason they were able to keep Reggie Wayne was because Pierre Garcon, one, decided to sign with Washington for more money than the Colts were willing to pay him, but two, because they had Andrew Luck on a rookie deal and could pay Reggie Wayne a little bit more. Would he have finished his career the way he did here in Indianapolis? We'll just forget about those two weeks in New England. It's pretty easy to black out. He didn't play a regular season game there. You know, it's hard to say. I think there's so many of those things that are just, you know,

and would some of those guys maybe have taken a little bit of a hometown discount to continue to play here and play alongside Manning? It's really, really hard to say. Yeah, this scenario, this what-if scenario, really opens up Pandora's box for not only the Colts, but also the NFL, like you mentioned, George. Really everything for many franchises changes. Peyton Manning sticks around Indianapolis for another five-plus years. But last one I have for you, George, just to close things out and wrap up our point

here on this what-if scenario. Do you believe the Colts made the right decision, what they did? Of course, Peyton Andrews' neck, they look in the number one pick, 2-14 that you're getting Andrew Luck. Looking back on a hindsight, I still think the Colts made the right choice on what they did, but what's your thoughts on what happened?

I thought at the time it was the right call and I still do. It's difficult as that is. I'm one of the people that thinks Peyton Manning is the greatest quarterback to have played this game. I saw him up close for a couple years and watched the impact that we talked about that he had on this city, on this state, on the league as a whole. It's so much so that Brady and Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson definitely deserve a lot of credit too.

But the match the other day, the highest rated golf telecast on cable television of all time. I mean, you know, and a lot of that has to do with Peyton Manning and his skill, the impact that he has on this culture and in this country. All that being said, I think they had no idea what would happen. And I don't think they were betting against Manning because I think they'd been around long enough to understand that if there was any way back, he would find it. But you had no idea how long he would play, at what level he would play.

You knew you had those salary cap situations coming up and you were going to have to put a young team around whatever quarterback was there. And I think it made more sense to go with a guy who was a generational talent in Andrew Luck and build around him. And, you know, the second part of this what if becomes what if Andrew Luck doesn't injure his shoulder?

You know, are we looking at a totally different situation in Indianapolis right now if he stayed healthy and is still the quarterback for this football team? I think it was the right decision. I think it ironically and unfortunately led to yet another quarterback injury that once again changed the fate and the history of this franchise. George, I really enjoyed this one. You guys can go follow George on Twitter at GMBremmer

and read and digest his work like I always do over at the Herald Bulletin. George, appreciate your time as always. No problem. Thanks a lot.