Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS 5/6/20: Jonathan Taylor deep dive with The Athletic Wisconsin's Jesse Temple + Crossover Special with Locked On Packers

Episode Date: May 6, 2020

On today's episode, lots of ground to cover as we have great insight from Wisconsin beat writer Jesse Temple on Jonathan Taylor's career. What was Taylor like on and off the field for the Badgers? Also, what were some of the best Taylor moments Temple saw over the last three years?In the second half of the show, we begin our Locked On Crossover specials as Peter Bukowski of Locked On Packers joins to discuss Green Bay and Indianapolis. Did the Colts psyche out Green Bay on trading up for Jordan Love? Is Aaron Rodgers on the way out soon?All of that, plus so much more, in this jam-packed pod featuring a double Wisconsin twist! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back into your latest episode of Locked On Colts, pretty locked on podcast network. Today's host is your host, Evan Sutter, joined by a very special guest on today's show, Jesse Temple of The Athletic Wisconsin. Jesse, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. How are you? Doing good. Thanks for coming on today because we're going to talk all about Jonathan Taylor, the Colts' 41st overall pick in the second round of this year's 2020 NFL Draft. And you had a chance to cover Jonathan Taylor's career at Wisconsin, Jesse.

Just for those listening that are Colts fans and then had a chance to watch much Wisconsin football what was it like covering Jonathan Taylor? Well he was an all-time great running back and not just at Wisconsin but in the history of college football which is pretty crazy to say because he made his mark in just three years he's the only player to rush for more than 6,000 yards in only three years. He finished sixth in the FBS in history in rushing yards. And I think he did it with a level of humility that is both refreshing and rare. He never changed who he was. And that was kind of part of the package of Jonathan Taylor.

He just worked his butt off, and he got better every year. And he went from being a first and second down running back to an every down back that an NFL team like the Colts will be able to rely on yeah and I think with Jonathan Taylor especially you go back and look at his career numbers it's absolutely bonkers what he puts up he had 12 200 plus yard games in his career only had nine sub 100 yard games so it just tells you the type of dominance Jonathan Taylor had over his career at Wisconsin but Jesse wanted to hit on just the character traits of Jonathan Taylor here because the Colts as an organization really value character in the players they draft. And for anything I've read, I read your feature story last year on Jonathan Taylor.

If you have not already, go ahead and read that over on The Athletic, hard-nosed but hard-driven about Jonathan Taylor, the Wisconsin room I've written about Jesse right here on the show. I wanted to hit on that for a second, Jesse. What was it like writing that story? And the more and more you learn and peel like the onion, so to say, about here on the show. I wanted to hit on that for a second, Jesse. What was it like writing that story? And the more and more you learn and peel like the onion, so to say, about Jonathan Taylor, the person. Well, I think the thing that stood out is when I would talk to teammates,

they would often say that he didn't necessarily know how good he was. Like he didn't carry himself in that fashion, certainly not early in his career. And I think, again, that speaks to the level of humility that he has and the way that he carried himself even in high school. He wasn't one of these five-star running backs that everybody was recruiting. And obviously, he had some good offers. He initially committed to Rutgers and wound up picking Wisconsin. But he really burst onto the scene in his first fall camp at Wisconsin. I remember reporters have access to a fair number of fall camp

practices in their entirety at Wisconsin. And I didn't hear his name called once in the first couple of weeks. He was like the fourth or fifth running back opening fall camp because there was so much depth. And then there were some injuries. And then he participated in a scrimmage two weeks before the season opener. It was a Friday night scrimmage under the lights at Camp Randall Stadium. And he broke a 70-yard touchdown runage under the lights at Camp Randall Stadium, and he broke a 70-yard touchdown run. And the first-team defense, which wound up being one of the best in college football that year, they were all looking at each other like, is this guy unbelievable or are we terrible?

And it turned out he was pretty amazing, and by week two he was a starter and never looked back. And, again, I think it speaks to just he never changed his approach in terms of how hard he worked, and he always felt like he had to prove himself. He even said when I talked to him during the offseason this past year that he wanted people to remember him, that nobody worked harder than him, and that he was the best running back they ever played with.

So far, he's lived up to that. Yeah, his three years at Wisconsin, for those wondering, he had at least 1,900 rushing yards all three years of his career. Just goes to show you just the type of player he was and how, I guess, Big Ten defense, especially Taylor, really had his way at times. But for those wondering as well, Jesse, from watching Wisconsin, obviously it's a throwback type of team as far as power run game and the way they built that around Jonathan Taylor this past year. What was it like watching that offense when Taylor got in his groove? I know there's a lot of games over the years where Taylor went off,

but any specific ones that stand out to you most? Boy, that's a really good question. There's a few that stand out. And as you said, I mean, I've covered every game that Jonathan played, but there was one that they played two seasons ago. I think it was 2018 against Purdue, and it was at Purdue. And the game went to triple overtime, and he literally carried the team on his back.

You know, I remember he was just so exhausted. He scored the game-winning touchdown in the third overtime, and he was just kind of like bent over, and people were coming up to him like, you are different. You know, like you're a different kind of player. And that one stands out to me. The season opener this past year against South Florida stands out. It was on the road in Tampa.

And Wisconsin made a concerted effort to get him the ball through the air. And he just – he showed the country this is what I've been working on. So those are a couple things that stand out. But another thing that I'd want to mention is, you know, you talk about Wisconsin and kind of the power offense and the run first system that the Badgers have. That's been established for the last 30 years. I think sometimes running backs in the system can kind of get the reputation of they're only a product of the system. And with Jonathan Taylor, you know, for Colts fans who are listening, I would point out that that is not the case.

Certainly, he was the beneficiary of an offense that wanted to run the ball. He ran the ball as much as anyone in college football behind a massive offensive line. But his skill set was unique because he had a blend of vision, power, and speed. And like I said, he diversified his game to be a pass-catching threat as well. Yeah, and that's the big part, I think, of Taylor's game. It's going to expand more and more in the NFL. I know Colts GM Chris Bauer said that Taylor's ability to show that he has pro day as far as catching the ball really caught their eye and really can see

a lot bigger role in that in the future for this Colts team. But with Jonathan Taylor, too, just look at the production, the amount of touches, too. I know Taylor is a player – we heard about this a lot through the Colts as well – that they've heard he takes care of his body really well. And almost over 1,000 touches in his college career, Jesse, I know some Colts fans are wondering as far as the trail and his tires go. But from what I've read, the stories about Jonathan Taylor,

he really does take care of his body an awful lot. He certainly does. And I will tell you this, after every single game of his career, he was the last player to arrive for interviews in the media room because that's exactly what he was doing. He was in the cold tub. He was the last player to arrive for interviews in the media room because that's exactly what he was doing. He was in the cold tub. He was doing recovery. And he would take as long as it needed because he certainly deserved that time off. You mentioned how many carries he had.

He ran the ball 926 times, and that doesn't even take into account some of the receptions that he had. He ranked third in the FBS in rushing attempts as a freshman. He was first as a sophomore, and he was second as a junior. And I understand that people look at those numbers, and as you said, they call it tread on the tires, and you wonder how much he has left. But he never missed a start over his last 40 games, and he continued to punish defenses. And in the second half, if you were wearing down,

he was just getting started. And so I think that there's something to be said for that. Certainly he's got a lot of carries, but he's been able to be healthy and to maintain his body. I know, obviously, Jesse, you've covered the career of Jonathan Taylor, game one through the end of his career. But looking back on other Wisconsin running backs recently, Melvin Gordon, what's different about Jonathan Taylor?

I know he had the 4.39 speed. It really caught everyone off guard at the combine, just how freakishly fast he was for a 226-pounder. But any other traits that stand out to you with Jonathan Taylor that maybe stand out differently than other Wisconsin running backs in the past? I think you just touched on it. For a 226-pound guy who's the third heaviest running back at the NFL combine to run a 4.39 second 40 40 yard dash. Just, I mean,

it blew me away and I covered him for his three seasons. Um, Melvin Gordon to me had the single greatest season I've ever seen by Wisconsin running back. Now I wasn't around when Ron Dane was carrying the rock in the late 1990s and won the Heisman trophy, but their Ron Dane skillset was entirely different. I think, you know, if Jonathan Taylor can have the type of career that Melvin has had so far, that's not a bad place to be. You know,

both those guys had that sort of total package where they developed into pass catchers later in their career. And I know Melvin was utilized in that capacity, certainly during his NFL career to date. And so I think that's something that Jonathan's going to be able to do as well. So it's the ability to run between the tackles. It's having the top end speed to run away from guys. And it's having the versatility to be used in different packages. Yeah, and you look at the versatility that Taylor's going to provide to those Colts offense.

It really is exciting the more you dive into it. But we were talking a little bit earlier just about just the leadership factor and the character of Jonathan Taylor. He was a team captain in this past year for Wisconsin. You were around practices and games, obviously, all the time. What's out to you as far as Taylor's leadership ability goes? Because I can easily see a scenario where in a couple years, Taylor is one of the alpha leaders of this Colts team in a new era.

Yeah, and the story that you referenced from the offseason, the headline is soft-spoken but hard-nosed, and so I think certainly initially in his Wisconsin career, he was not the loudest guy. He was not the guy beating his chest. And actually, when I talked to Wisconsin running backs coach John Settle, that was one thing that he wanted Jonathan to improve on as he entered his junior season last year was, you know, you know you're the guy and you can act like it. That doesn't mean that you're a jerk to other people, but you speak up and they will listen.

And I think that's something that he really learned this season. I actually remember the very first fall camp practice that we watched. He was going through – it was a drill where they fire the footballs from the machine so you can catch passes from a short distance. Wide receivers use it a lot, but running backs do too. And he was running in motion and catching passes. And there were a bunch of other running backs who were around him watching, and I could see Jonathan giving very small pointers about stuff like that.

And that's when it struck me, like in the very first practice of his junior year, that he's somebody who's now developed his voice and people are willing to listen. And certainly if he's productive in the NFL, you can see why teammates would want to follow his lead. Oh, absolutely. And I think that's what's really exciting too. Not only the on-field aspect of John Taylor, but the off-field aspect as well.

And that's why the Colts really valued him as much as they did, because I know they're with the next pick series they put out on their YouTube page. One of the scouts called John Taylor Captain America, because I think they would regret picking this guy if they didn't check every single box for them as far as character and on-field traits go but we hit on the the best game of john taylor's career but any what other moments still to you most jesse it could be on the field off the field what other moments should colts fans know as far as john taylor the person or the player

i think it goes back to just the way that he carried himself um he could have a 250 yard game and when you're speaking to him after the game you you wouldn't necessarily know that he carried himself. He could have a 250-yard game, and when you're speaking to him after the game, you wouldn't necessarily know that he was that guy. I felt like he was very well-spoken, very eloquent, maybe fairly well-polished with the media, which I think you don't normally see from a kid who's fresh out of high school, but I think those are some things that'll stand out to me. He had so many great games, it's kind of hard to pin them down. But he was the guy for three straight years. And he always lived up to to being that guy every game.

Yeah, and that really does show you just how impressive Taylor's career was. And the gaudy numbers are just incredible look at on the boxwork sheet. But when you dive into more, like you mentioned, Jesse, your stories that you've written on Taylor in the past, just the character and the person he is, I think he's going to be an incredible fit in the Indianapolis Colts organization here. But looking at this fit for a second, Jesse, with John Taylor with the Colts, who would have thought that?

Because honestly, I really wasn't thinking they were going to go running back early in the draft. They had Marlon Mack on their roster nine times. But I love the fit. You go get Quentin Nelson up up front now you put john taylor behind that that has a chance to be i think really lethal yeah i mean i i can't say i'd be lying to you if i said i'd studied indianapolis's roster uh in any capacity but if you added jonathan taylor to your team you are absolutely going to get better uh there's no red flags all you can say

is that he carried the ball a lot, but he was incredibly productive. He's the kind of leader that people want to be around, and he managed to get better. You look at his freshman year, he rushes for 1,977 yards. He breaks Adrian Peterson's FBS freshman rushing record, and it was very easy to sit there and say, well, how in the heck is he going to follow that up and be better? And he was.

He ran for over 2,000 yards as a sophomore and a junior, and so I think that those are some things that are important to keep in mind too. You know, for as good as he's been, he always wants to get better, and he's going to approach that in the same way when he's with the Colts. Yeah, and I think with Jonathan Taylor, that's what's the most exciting part. I mean, we keep diving into it, Jesse, but the more you talk about Jonathan Taylor, the more I get excited because I think he's going to have an instant impact

on this Colts team moving forward here. But anything else, Jesse? I know we've covered, I think, a lot of the bases here for Colts fans, but covering John Taylor's career here, what was it like just from a media interaction standpoint, John Taylor? Because I know from what I've read, and you've hit on it before, he would usually deflect. I mean, he had a big game.

He'd talk about the offensive line created the holes for me. The wire series blocked so well. The humbleness and the selfless character of Taylor really stood out to me when I dove into that kind he had a big game. He talked about the offensive line created the holes for me. The wire series blocks so well, like the humbleness and the selfless character of Taylor really stood out to me when I dove into that kind of aspect of his game. Yep. That's what he's all about. That's exactly who he is. And he's kind of been that way, you know, since he grew up in New Jersey. And so that's what you're going to get with the Colts. If he has a 150 yard rushing game as a rookie, he's going to cite the offensive line for opening holes. And so that's something that definitely will stand out with me. Again, you

don't always see players that handle themselves in that way. And as a player, one thing I should mention, because I'm talking like he's a perfect football player, he did have some issues with fumbling. He fumbled 18 times, and he lost the ball, I think, 15 times in his career. Now you're going to lose some fumbles when you carry 926 times like he did. But I do think that is something to monitor moving forward because there were times where ball security certainly was an issue, even though he put a lot of emphasis on it. So that's something he's going to have to shore up in the NFL.

But other than that, you know, I think the Colts are getting the total package both on and off the field. Yeah, I definitely agree. And I appreciate going on here, Jesse, with us for about 10, 15 minutes covering the career of John Taylor, Wisconsin. You saw every single game and most of the presses of Taylor's career. So you can go and follow Jesse on Twitter at Jesse Temple. Read his work as the University of Wisconsin beat writer over at the Athletic Wisconsin.

Jesse, appreciate the time. Thanks so much. Hope you'll enjoy that conversation with Jesse Temple, the Athletic Wisconsin. Jesse, appreciate the time. Thanks so much. Hope you all enjoyed that conversation with Jesse Temple, The Athletic Wisconsin's beat writer for the Wisconsin Badgers. Covered John Taylor's whole career over his years at Wisconsin. Gave us a lot of good stuff there, and I hope you guys enjoy because that was a fun 15-minute conversation with Jesse. Part two of today's show, though, is going to be with Peter Bukowski,

locked on Packers, as we start off our crossover specials that are going on the next couple weeks here. Spending about 15-20 minutes every show talking to a different team throughout the NFL. And this week is the NFC North. That's the Colts will be playing the NFC North this time next year. So Peter Bukowski, Locked On Packers. Talked a lot about Jordan Love with the Colts' interest, the Packers' interest. Maybe the Colts did an elaborate smokescreen there.

Aaron Rodgers' future there. And a lot of interesting talk for Peter to me about the Colts. I know you guys are going to enjoy that as well. So hope you guys enjoy. We're going to dive right into this Locked On crossover special. It goes on today's show about 20 minutes with me and Peter Bukowski of Locked On Packers talking Colts and the Green Bay Packers. Hello, everybody.

Welcome back into our crossover specials for this week. I am Evan Sutter of Locked On Colts, joined by Peter Bukowski of Locked on Packers. Peter, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. How are you? Doing well. I appreciate you coming on here. I know it's always fun to do some crossover here. I want to start off first because this is one of the more interesting topics I know among Colts fans.

Interestingly enough, he ended up in Green Bay on draft night. Jordan Love, how much did that catch you off guard, especially with Aaron Rodgers now a quarterback? Well, I think when you look at it now in retrospect, it's easy to say, well, the writing was on the wall. It was something that Brian Gutekunst and Matt LaFleur each mentioned. And Brian Gutekunst actually mentioned it several times in various off-season press conferences that if they thought there was someone there worth taking, they would take him. And at the Combine, Matt LaFleur was asked about quarterback and he said, yeah, you know, we're never going to, we think it's the most important position. And he went into this whole

soliloquy about it and was asked, okay, what is the perfect, you know, draft quarterback look like for you? And he listed a group of strengths that if you just read the strengths part, profiles very similarly to Jordan Love. And of course, they make that selection come out of it. And you hear Matt LaFleur and Brian Gutekinds each use all of those same qualifiers. And it really makes you think that even back in February, whether or not they knew they were going to draft him, they had their eyes on him for sure. Yeah, really intriguing because I know the Colts fans, I know the Colts actually were one of the teams scouting Jordan Love throughout the process here, and they seemed interested

on the surface, but of course there was rumors about them possibly trading up here. Do you think the Colts having that rumored interest around the NFL, Peter, played a part in the Packers moving up from 30 to 26 overall because there was so much smoke around the Colts with Jordan Love. I think not just that, but if you look at the other teams that were reportedly interested, the New England Patriots were among those teams. There was the Saints, the Steelers even a little bit. So you're talking about teams, first of all, New England had traded down. So could they move back up? The Saints have never been shy about trading

up to get their guy. And then the Colts, you know, they had that early second round pick. It would have been easy enough for them to get up to 28, 29 and jump the Packers. So I think Green Bay felt like when they got the deal that they did from Seattle and the receiver board broke the way that it did and have all those guys go off the board I mean I assumed going in that they were going to have the chance to draft you know either Brandon Ayuk or Michael Pittman not just one of them and and clearly they felt like the receiver board broke in a weird way for them so they had to move up and get their guy so of course of course, I think the Colts reported interest, but that coupled with the fact that there were multiple teams

who are in a position at that point to do it, that certainly played a role in all of this. The final draft question I have for you, Pierre, probably going into more general-based topics on the Green Bay Packers for a second. I know the Packers were one of the teams nationally that had a quote-unquote head-scratching draft set to say, you go and get a quarterback when you have Aaron Rodgers,

you draft A.J. Dillon in the second round. For Colts fans listening here who don't know much about the Packers draft and what your overall thoughts on it is, just what can you tell them as far as why your overall thoughts on the Packers and what kind of grade would you give them just off the immediate reaction? Well, I mean, surprised, obviously, is the immediate reaction. That's not a grade, but certainly, you know, plays a role here. They got some really good players.

And I think that's the message that I've had to my audience over the last, you know, week, 10 days. But the value was not ideal. Running back in the second round, you know, AJ Dillon is probably more like the 75th best player than the 62nd best player. So value-wise, that's not a bad deal, except that they didn't pick, you know, a lot of players that I thought were potential first round talents even still available at that point in the draft. Josiah Deguara is a good football player, a versatile kid who's going to play a lot of snaps for Green Bay pretty early on, I think. And that doesn't mean that he's worth a third round pick. Clearly they disagreed. And whether or not those guys

turn out to be good players, I do think we can grade the process. I don't love the process, but I do think the players that they drafted, and really to a man, I think all of them have paths to roles on this team, even if they're not all starters. I think overall, it's probably a C draft right now. If Jordan Love is a good player, though, if Jordan Love is a good quarterback, it's an A draft just because of what a good quarterback can do for your team. And I don't think I have to sell Colts fans on that idea. They saw and have seen just like the Packers have. They went from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck and the value there is just so high. Yeah. Franchise quarterbacks, if you see one, you have to take one. And in the

situation that the Packers are in, of course, Aaron Rodgers is into his late 30s now. Of course, the times run out a little bit on him, so we'll have to talk more about him in a second, Peter, because I think with Aaron Rodgers, which hit on him for a second, just the relationship with Matt LaFleur, the head coach. I know a lot of people were talking last year in the preseason about if they were going to get along or not. Those little spats we heard about, I don't know if those are actually rumored reports or not, but it seems like there's a lot of smoke around the floor and Rogers back in the preseason. That kind of went away as the season went along as the Packers did well here,

but what's that dynamic been like between the floor and Aaron Rogers? By all accounts, they've had an excellent relationship working together. And I had a right guard, Billy Turner on lockdown Packers in the middle of last year, and he brought it up unprompted. And I hadn't even hinted at it really. I just sort of, you know,

let's, let's talk about the new offense. You have to put it all in and, and you know, what was that experience like? And he brought up the quarterback coach relationship and said, you know, people that are not in the building,

don't get it. They don't see it. They don't understand. And part of the reason why they have a good working relationship is that Matt LaFleur on day one walked into the Packers locker room and said, I know you've been used to doing things a certain way around here. We're going to do them a different way now. And the guys bought in, they got buy-in early from these players. They changed the culture. I know that's an old cliche, but everyone around the team says it matters. And so it's one of those things that if everyone thinks it matters, it matters,

right? I mean, whether or not it actually helps them play better is sort of irrelevant because they think it does. And if they think it does, then it does. So that is part of why I think that Rodgers has bought in because everyone did. It's really hard to have an adversarial relationship with a coach everyone likes. It's like if you have a group of friends and you're a jerk to the friend everyone likes, then even if you make a funny joke, they're all going to go, yo, relax because everyone likes that friend. So even if he wanted to be adversarial,

it probably wouldn't fly. And so from, from the Packers standpoint, having someone like LeFleur who commanded that respect right away, the Packers bet big on LeFleur in that way, and it paid off and they've had a great working relationship really since, since day one. When you look at the Packers overall, Peter, I know it ended the way it did in San Francisco in the playoffs, but how much do you think the Packers have closed the gap, so to say, against the 49ers, the Saints, the other teams that were atop the NFC this past year alongside Green Bay? Because we hit on the draft a little bit. I know it was more towards the long term and going Jordan Love Brown won, but how do you

think the Packers addressed their needs to closing the gap with the teams atop the NFC? I think the Packers closed the gap by saying status quo, because I think the 49ers got worse. I think the Vikings got worse. The NFC East is now more competitive. The Cowboys and Eagles are clearly better than they were last year, but it's hard to argue that they were better than Green Bay last year. Seattle looks worse. So it's almost like Green Bay just had to remain in stasis to elevate their standing in the conference. The conference is still going to be really deep. There's a lot of really good teams. I'm fascinated to see, you know, a team like the Cardinals. What do they look like this year? A team like the Rams. What do they look like? Could the Falcons, if their defense, stay healthy? But for the Packers, their biggest question is if their guys in year two and year three of NFL tenure, the guys who were drafted in 17, 18, and 19, did they take

those steps forward? Does Darnell Savage go from being a good rookie to a good NFL player because the standards are different? Does Rashawn Gary start looking like the 12th overall pick? Does Jay Sternberger reward the Packers for not taking a tight end in this draft by becoming a reliable starting tight end in 2020? I think there are some places that Green Bay got better. Improving the Geronimo Allison spot with Devin Funchess is certainly going to be an upgrade. I think you can make the case if Christian Kirksey is healthy, he's an upgrade over Blake Martinez. And they clearly downgraded from Brian Bulaga to Rick Wagner. But with internal development and a year two of this offense, I think that's where they're looking to see the improvement on this team.

Yeah, and that's a really good point, Brant, there, as far as the 49ers and the other teams top the NFC. Really kind of lost a lot of peace, and ironically enough, DeForest Buckner, one of the best defenders, went to the cold side. And that's going to be really interesting because I think he's going to make a big impact on the cold side. But I really want to close here before we go on to our second segment, Peter, talking about just the Packers overall and their general manager brian gooden

coos because i know chris bauer the colts gm he gets a lot of love around the league but also gooden coos does as well what's been your overall impressions going from ted thompson to gooden coos and what he's done to improve his packers team over the years well the thing that really stands out is is more about process than anything else, especially late in his tenure. Ted Thompson did not speak with the media, did not like to do it, did not do interviews even after the draft, did not do it. He had an annual sit down with a guy from the local paper that he had a longstanding relationship with. And that was really it. And Mike McCarthy was forced to sit up there and take the slings and arrows from the media about moves that the team was making when it should have been Ted Thompson. And I always felt like

I lost a little bit of respect for Thompson for doing that because I think he's a really smart football person and a really good general manager. And I just like, then you need to stand behind your decisions. You need to be willing to stand up there like most other teams do and make yourself available to the media to answer questions. Brian Gutekind, if anything, is over communicative. I mean, I feel like during the season there's more opportunities to hear from him than I would even have time to listen to sometimes. His willingness to be transparent and be open about their process has really been eye-opening. And he's clearly shown a willingness to use every avenue at his disposal to make this

team better. In his first draft, he trades out of the 14th spot to get a future first round pick from the Saints. They try and get in on the Khalil Mack trade. They sign Kyle Fuller to a restricted free agent tender. They've signed big in free agency. They've signed small in free agency. I think he is willing to do anything, much like most of the Ted Thompson acolytes are. Guys like John Schneider, John Dorsey, they have been much more willing than Thompson was to use free agency, to use trades, to make the team better. And I think he feels like, you know, the draft as the Packers always

have is for the long term, but that he's willing to use free agency to solve short term problems, like right tackle in 2020, like inside linebacker, those kinds of things. Yeah, definitely interesting stuff, because the Green Bay Packers, I know they made a lot of noise on draft night with what they did. But I think overall in their offseason with what they've done over the years with Goon Kus at the helm, definitely one of the more intriguing teams to watch this year in the NFC. Before we go on to our next segment,

just wanted to tell you guys if you have not already to subscribe, not only to Locked On Colts, but also Locked On Packers with Peter as well. We do great work for you guys five days a week throughout the year. So if you're not already, go ahead and subscribe to our shows and enjoy the part two of our Locked On Podcast crossover into segment two. I'll be back in just a second.

All right, we are back for segment two. And Peter, I know you probably have a lot of questions about this Colts team because who would have thought a year ago that Phillip Rivers would be the quarterback of the Colts and especially with Andrew Luck,

who was at the time before his retirement, second MVP behind Patrick Holmes. Yeah, the world looks very different now in so many ways, doesn't it? I never thought, and I'm sure, you know, you as someone who's watched this team for a long time, you know, you think about some of the battles that the Colts and the Chargers had in the playoffs, the Peyton Manning days, it seemed impossible to imagine Philip Rivers in an Indianapolis uniform. I guess the big question for me is, is going with a player like Rivers, who is at the end of his career trajectory, as opposed to going young and taking a Jordan Love or, you know, even giving Jacoby Brissett another go at it? Is that the right move right now for the Colts? Originally, Peter, I thought no, but the more I thought about it just over the last few months,

I think it just makes a lot of sense. And especially with the Colts, I ended up doing DeForest Buckner there in complete win-now mode. Their cerebral window is right now for the next one or two years. They re-signed Anthony Costanza. They're in complete win-now mode. Their cerebral window is right now for the next one or two years. They re-signed Anthony Costanza. They're going to have T.Y. Hilton on the final swan song of his career in the next couple of years. I think it makes sense to go for it, honestly. And honestly, Jacoby Bursette, the last few months of the year,

was really, really bad to watch from a viewing standpoint because he was just missing a lot of reads, a lot of wide-open guys. And the Colts became a vanilla offense, a one-dimensional team, run first around Marlon Mack. And Phillip Burrows, of course, had his moments last year as far as inconsistencies through 20 interceptions, but I think a lot of those were impressed moments because off the research that I did,

he threw 35 throws in a game last year or more. They had an 0-9 record, the Chargers did, and he had 10 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. But he threw less than 35 throws, Peter. He had 13 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, with over a 70% completion percentage on a 5-2 record. So I think this Colts team, with the way they built this offense, too, around Phillip Rivers, you have the offensive line,

so he's protected back there. He doesn't have to worry much about that. The power run game with Marlon Mack and Jonathan Taylor just added in the draft. And you add in Mike Pittman Jr., T.Y. Hilton, Paris Campbell, Zach Paschal, along with Jack Doyle and Trey Burton. They have a lot of pieces in place where the pressure really isn't on Phillip Rivers. I feel like from a game manager standpoint, I think Rivers is a massive upgrade over a Jacoby Brissett.

And it just seems like to me, from what we've heard, the Colts just really weren't that interested in the top guys in this draft as far as quarterbacks go. Yeah, and, you know, Phillip Rivers is the kind of quarterback that I think can excel in a Frank Reich system. I wrote a feature a few years ago about Frank Reich and Nick Sirianni about how they can protect Andrew Luck and finding ways to keep him on the field. And ultimately, that proved to be a fool's errand. Andrew Luck just, you know, was worn out from the grind that it took on his body. But their point was, if you can win with your brain,

if you can protect yourself that way, that's the best way to protect yourself. And it seems like Phillip Rivers, as someone who has always made a living figuring out pre-snap where to go with the football, sometimes he gets a little bit aggressive throwing it downfield, of course, into traffic. But he's able to do that

and seems to fit with the kind of offense they want to run. Yeah, absolutely. They really want to be a run-first team right now, and especially with Phillip Rivers. He's going to open up more in the play action, but you go and get Jonathan Taylor at 41 overall, you trade up for him a couple spots. They have a mantra in Indianapolis, run the damn ball with Quentin Nelson up front, and you have really one of the top points of the NFL, and they showed last year in games against Kansas City.

And you also throw in Atlanta as well, where they can really run the ball at will and just take teams out of it very early on. And adding in another dynamite stick like Jonathan Taylor to the rushing attack, I think, makes it a lot more sense for Phil Bruce to have a lot less pressure on him, like I mentioned. But also, he's so good at play action. He loves these big body targets. You have Michael Pittman in there as well at 6'4", 220. I just feel like everything's in place. And he also added the factor that Frank Reich and Nick Sirianni used to coach Phil Burrus in San Diego. And he had one of his best years, completion percentage-wise, 69.1%. I just think they checked so many boxes, not only from Rivers' side, but also the Colts' side, as to why they made this marriage happen. Yeah, also the Colts' side, as to why they made this marriage happen.

Yeah, and the Colts' approach to the draft was sort of the opposite of Green Bay's. The Colts decided, okay, aging quarterback, add weapons, and worry about the future at the position in terms of quarterback later, whereas the Packers did the opposite. They said, here's Jordan Love. He's the future of our franchise down the line. And then here's some sort of tertiary players. From that standpoint, do you think this approach sets up an opportunity that in a few years, you know, two years, Jonathan Taylor ascends, Michael Pittman Jr. ascends, two players that Green Bay fans certainly were interested in. And then they're going to draft someone, or what is the plan here for how this offense moves through beyond just 2020 and 2021?

Yeah, I think what's really interesting, I know Rivers Camp and also the Colts have mentioned this as well, that if Rivers plays well this year, he will be back in 2021. It's more of a pseudo two-year deal if all goes well this year. But you look at post-2020, 2021 Phil Burrus, whenever he's gone from Indianapolis, they drafted Jacob Eason at 122 overall, the Washington quarterback. They did it, I think, just out of value alone. He was a day two player, probably a top 75, top 80 player, slipped to 122. So I think the Colts just might

as well say, why not? They had no quarterback under contract through next season. So Eason either is the franchise quarterback of the future or he's just a long-term backup for this team. But tying a fourth-round pick and that little salary to Jacob Eason, there's no real risk as far as rolling the dice on him. He could be your franchise guy. He could not be. And I think you look at the 2021-2022 draft classes, they're so good at quarterback.

I think the Colts just playing their cards right and doing it conservatively right now and building the offense around Phillip Brewers and really having these young weapons like Jonathan Taylor, Michael Pittman, they'll all be in their hopeful like near primes as this young quarterback, whoever may be in a couple years, enters the system. You mentioned the DeForest Buckner trade earlier and that was something that I was really fascinated by because it seemed like the 49ers decided, look, the money allocated to the defensive front cannot be spread around to everyone at a certain point. They decided to pay Eric Armstead versus DeForest Buckner. That's really the ultimate decision that they made. When this all went down,

were you surprised, number one, that the 49ers moved on, and number two, that the Colts valued Buckner so highly that they'd be willing to give up a top 15 pick and a top of market, basically receiver salary for an interior defender. Yeah, it was really shocking from all sides as it first broke because $21 million annually for defense tackle is really big money. Of course, that's Aaron Donald type money for him. I know he makes around $22.5 million for the Rams rams but buckner you have a player that was obviously wanting a big money contract he earned it with the way he played in san francisco but give up the top 15 pick chris bauer told us on his press conference after this trade happened that they valued buckner so highly as far as not only an on-field impact but also they value characters so highly in this organization

that the team captain he knows how to really help build a locker room and build a culture like he did in San Francisco, and they believe Buckner could be a team leader on that side with Darius Leonard and form really a dynamic duo with two all-pros now on defense there. And I think the impact that Buckner's going to have on all three levels of this Colts defense is going to be huge because the Colts were looking at defensive tackles in free agency. They were going to look at it in the draft, and DeForest Buckner is the best case scenario for anything. I think obviously they went with Javon Kimmel, the 49ers, to replace Buckner.

But there's going to be no development curve for DeForest Buckner. He's right in the middle of his prime. He's going to help out right away and be an instant impact player. So I was not for it at first. But the more I saw it, I think it just makes so much sense because it's a Colts team that's in win-now mode.

And you add another all-pro to this team, it only ups their ceiling for this year. Yeah, the thing that i've been trying to impress upon mostly 49ers fans is that javon kinlaw for as good as as you think he is as a prospect potentially he's not going to be deforest buckner in 2020 just like under no scenario is that going to be the case and so that is what the 49ers gave up now maybe long term he is but the colts are going to be the case? And so that is what the 49ers gave up. Now, maybe long-term he is, but the Colts are going to get the better player in 2020. There's really no two ways about that here. So I'm looking at the Colts in the view of the AFC South

and the Texans are in a weird situation. I don't know what to make of the Titans coming off a season where it seems like they overperformed and the Jaguars are the Jaguars. So when it comes to the hierarchy of the AFC South for 2020, how do you see this division? I think honestly, with what they did this offseason, I think Phillip Burris, DeForest Buckner, and a lot more veterans win now. They get Michael Pittman Jr. and Jonathan Taylor as well to start things off in the

draft. I think they kind of leapfrogged here, Peter, honestly, to the top of the division. And I think it makes a lot of sense because like you mentioned, I think Tennessee was very hot at the end of the year. They rode Derek Henry to the ground a little bit. Ryan Tannehill was a good play action passer, but was that just a one hit wonder? I believe that was,

I think there'll probably be a nine and seven, eight and eight type of team. Like you mentioned Jacksonville there. I think Trevor Lawrence at this point, what they're doing with their team and Houston. I mean, who knows what Bill O'Brien is doing, honestly, because he traded away their best player in DeAndre Hopkins. You have Deshaun Watson, of course, a quarterback,

and they didn't really do much to address the offensive line outside of Laramie Tunsil last year. I thought they would do more with that in the draft. And it's really curious what Houston is doing here. So I really believe that what the Colts did this offseason, you add in all these blue- blue chip talents into this roster for a team. When Jacoby set a quarterback, probably a top 25, top 30 quarterback, they were still near 500. I think the leap they could take here is maybe even 10 to 11 wins this year. Yeah, I think

the Colts are the favorite. I do wonder though, if you asked, you know, the guys over doing the Texans show or at Locked on Titans, if they would agree. But I agree with you. So I'm with you. It's going to be a fascinating season to play out. And it will not surprise me if we're looking up in the AFC playoffs and the Colts are there with the Chiefs at the end of the run. I think they're that talented. And I think that much of Frank Reich and that coaching staff, to be sure.

Evan, this was great. I appreciate you taking the time. And I look forward to doing Frank Reich and that coaching staff to be sure. Evan, this was great. I appreciate you taking the time and look forward to doing this again in the season. Hopefully we have a season. Yeah, absolutely. I know the Colts and Packers face off. So we're talking again here soon, Peter.