Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS - 6/22- Colts Offseason Impressions & Listener Call Ins W/@JoshWilsonSB

Episode Date: June 22, 2017

Josh Wilson joins Matt to discuss impressions from the #Colts offseason training period, where on the roster the potential is, and what camp battles they're most looking forward to. Also Matt and Josh answer listener call ins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Learn more about our healthy benefits at fepblue.org slash getmore. No, I'm not for sale. You are lockeded On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back to Locked On Colts, ladies and gentlemen. I'm your host, Matt Dainley. Thank you guys for joining me here. I know that we got a little bit of an odd schedule this week,

but because of Father's Day and a couple other things, we just decided to move the episodes around a little bit. But nevertheless, thank you guys for coming back. Hoping to give you guys another great show. And to help me with that, I brought back Josh Wilson from Stampede Blue. Josh, what's going on, buddy? Hey, nice to be back on the show. Always a pleasure to be talking Colts with you. Absolutely. Glad to have you. Sad to hear the news that Josh will

be stepping away from Stampede Blue. If you guys hadn't heard that or didn't know that already, that's a real shot to Colts coverage, to be honest with you. Josh has always been one of the best, and he's kept Stampede Blue more than above water and always had them bring in really quality Colts analysis. So from myself to all the other Colts fans and everybody who's ever read your work, Josh, we thank you for what you've done, and we're all happy for you and your new adventures, but sad to see you go. Well, I mean, I really appreciate that, And it's been a pleasure, a privilege.

I mean, I can't begin to describe how amazing it's been. I love it. I love, you know, the Colts love covering the team. It's been a dream come true. And it's really been awesome. I mean, I'm sure you would agree with this. I think the best part of my job is honestly just being able to inform and discuss and talk about Colts with

fans. It's amazing. We've got some really knowledgeable fans, fans that care deeply about the team and to be able to play some part in informing them and then discussing the team with them is amazing. That's the best part of my job for sure. And I'll miss it. Absolutely. It is. And that's why I asked you when I first heard about it, you know, how are you going to handle this? Because that's going basically from, you know, constantly discussing it to almost not doing it at all. I mean, other than, you know, the conversation I'm sure you'll still be having with fans and stuff on Twitter. Nobody will take anything away from the fact that simply you're not writing anymore. It'll just be, you know, that you aren't writing anymore.

But that's going to be a strange transition, I would assume, for you. That would be like walking out into the light after being stuck in a basement for months on end. That would be a whole new world. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think I'm really just bracing myself for training camp. I think that's really when it's going to hit because I love training camp. That's one of my favorite times of the year. I can just imagine sitting at home during training camp. I think that's really when it's going to hit because I love training camp. That's one of my favorite times of the year. And I can just imagine, you know, sitting at home

during training camp, you know, not being there out on the field or out with the media and everything. I'm going to miss that. And that's probably when I'll miss it the most is this year in training camp where I'll be like, oh, this is interesting. I'm not actually covering a new season. Right. Yeah. Maybe that'll bring you some new perspective, though, because it's been a while since you've just been a fan. Yeah, it's been several years.

And so I'm looking forward to that part of it, and I'm sure it's going to be interesting and different. But I'm looking forward to it, and I'm excited about some of the next steps I have in life. but I'm sure there's going to be some times where I miss it if if nothing else just miss sharing my thoughts and having people listen to them I mean that's always nice you know so if nothing else that but you're right I'll still be around on Twitter still be around discussing all things Colts interacting with fans I'll still be around there but it'll be different not writing for sure absolutely well that's good that you'll still be around we'll still be hitting you up for for your thoughts on everything else but so let's get into

the Colts offseason and kind of talk what do you think about their offseason program is there anything that uh you saw or heard that really kind of stuck true to you I mean I think that the the luck injury stuff's been a little overplayed as far as nationally. I think locally we've kept a little more even keel on our assessments of what we expect from him and stuff like that. And not only that, but it seems like nationally everybody was freaking out. Everybody's scared to death. Luck's not coming back. And I just don't think that's the case at all.

But if there's anything else, maybe the Clayton Gethers injury issues or anything like that, but within the training camp or within minicamp or OTAs, was there anything of substance that really stuck out to you? Well, I always think when it comes to OTAs and minicamp, the first thing I always look for is injuries and injury updates because on-field performance is so fickle when it comes to off-season evaluation. I mean, it's hard to truly tell anything from practices. So I always look for injuries first. I mean, Andrew Luck and Clayton Gethers and some of those other guys. I think that's really one of the biggest takeaways we can have. And I think the Gethers injury is probably more significant in terms of when's he going to be back than Andrew Luck.

I mean, Luck's the franchise player, so I totally get all that coverage. But I think at this point, I really think training camp is when we start to question when Luck gets back. If he's not throwing middle toward the end of training camp, I mean, he might be throwing, but if he's not looking like he's anywhere close during training camp that might be when there's some questions that start to come in but now i think it's just a waiting game gathers i mean it's anybody's guess at this point when he returns there's really no clear indication so some of those injuries i think are the the clearest takeaways but then on the field i think what you what you're looking for are those

guys that really catch the attention so i mean i'm sure you've discussed many of the names, you know, like Dante Moncrief or Chester Rogers or several of those other names. So those are just guys on the offensive side of the football that have stood out. And on the defensive side, I mean, you've got a number of players I just listened to. I don't know if you heard Bob Laming in an interview with Chris Ballard at the end of minicamp, and Ballard mentioned over a dozen names of guys he was impressed with from minicamp and the offseason program, and so those are the guys that I think really stand out, not so much that, oh, well, they impress in the offseason, so they're for sure going to make the roster and have a huge impact in the season, but these are the guys we should be watching more

closely in training camp to see what they can do watch more closely in preseason to see how they continue to progress so those guys that you hear about in the offseason program who they really really stood out that's great those are the guys we're going to keep an eye on moving forward to see if they can continue that because it's one thing to do it in the offseason in shorts it's another thing to do it when it gets to preseason in a game setting or in training camp with more hopefully live tackling it's another thing to do it there so I think probably my biggest takeaways that I try to stick with in the offseason are injuries and then performance to the extent that those are the guys that we're really going to watch and keep an eye on. Yeah, absolutely.

You know, there's a sneaky, fun camp battle that I'm really looking forward to. There's several, and I'll get to a couple more because I want to hear what you're interested in specifically as well. But Stephen Moore, Scott Tolzien. I think it was you and I talking, or maybe it was George, I'm not sure. But I spoke about this a while ago. I don't want to go into training camp and have to write or continue to talk over and over about who looked better between Stephen Morris and Scott Tolzien in training camp without luck, if luck doesn't do much.

But that is one of the sneakier camp battles in there. Scott Tolzien's obviously more expensive and we saw what we you know saw from Stephen Morris last year that we thought that maybe he offers more to the offense with being able to get outside the pocket accuracy he's got a stronger arm you know stuff like that does that interest you in any way shape or form oh absolutely I think the backup quarterback spot is one that is probably not talked about enough this offseason in the sense that there's a really real competition going on there and i think a lot of people just assume that tolzian is going to be the guy there because he was it last year

he's the veteran presence i'm not sure that's the case stephen morris i thought outplayed tolzian last year in the preseason and in training camp by a pretty significant margin. And then the Colts seem really impressed with Phillip Walker, the undrafted player out of Temple. They've mentioned his name several times. And one of the things, too, that I look for are those guys that either Chuck Pagano, Chris Ballard, whoever it might be, brings up unprompted. So a guy that when they're asked just whatever question it might be brings up unprompted so so a guy that when they're asked just a whatever

question it might be and they bring up another guy's name that's really what i'm interested in last year for example uh chester rogers and edwin jackson were two of those guys that caught my attention because they were mentioned unprompted and they both wound up making the roster and then having some contributions well this year Chuck Pagano was asked I think it was a question about Anthony Walker if I'm remembering right and he turned it into a response about Philip Walker the quarterback and I'm like interesting that that's where he keeps going and so even him I think will have a shot at winning that backup quarterback battle so I think that will be very interesting to look at. And hopefully the first team reps this offseason help Tolzien get more justice to the offense and make it a better position battle. But I really think that's going to be something that we have

to keep an eye on in training camp and preseason for sure. Absolutely. Another one, and we kind of just go down the positions here. Running back. I mean, ultimately, I think that we're pretty safe, assuming, despite the competition mantra with everything that Gore Turbin and Marlon Mack are all safe on the roster. Then you get to Troy Main Pope, Josh Ferguson, Dalton Crosson, and, I mean, they continued to mention Crosson, you know, in the offseason right after they brought him in. I haven't heard Ferguson's name once. And Troy Main Pope was brought in when Christine Michael was put on IR. So that, I mean, interesting is kind of about what it brings. But you kind of wonder if one of those guys kind of offers something to this offense to where, not that they find a significant role or anything like that, but to where they could be something

throughout the season where everybody's going, man, I didn't even know if he was going to make the team, and he's actually getting some snaps. You know what I mean? Oh, absolutely. I mean, and you mentioned Crossan. His name's been brought up a lot. And even Josh Ferguson, in that interview I mentioned with Bob Lamey

that Chris Ballard did last week, he said he was very impressed with Ferguson this offseason. It was Ferguson and Turbin were the guys that he thought really stood out. And then he mentioned Crossland at the end of that as well. So I think even Ferguson, you know, I liked him a lot last training camp. I thought he could bring a lot. And then he just got derailed by drops. And so if they're looking for that change of pace guy,

which it seems Marlon Mack's going to be that, well, then they might give Ferguson a look. So, you know, I think they've got different options, and it probably depends on kind of what they're looking for with that fourth back and if they do keep four because you know gore's kind of your he's just your starter he's going to get some reps he's going to be your main workhorse turban is going to be still your short yardage and goal line guy but he's probably going to see some more reps in other situations as well and then max your change of pace guy. Well, then what do you want from that fourth guy?

It's probably going to come down to a lot of special teams contributions and things like that. But I think, you know, and it's not guaranteed they're going to keep a fourth guy, but if they are, I think it's completely up in the air from those three guys you mentioned. I mean, just pick one, and that's as good of a guess as any. Yeah, I agree. When we get to the wide receivers, you know, do you think Dorsett's kind of sat himself out of,

I'm not even sure how I want to put it, but being out with just the hamstring, you know, that it seemed when Kiefer interviewed him, it seemed like it was, I'm good now, you know. Well, then why weren't you in minicamp? You know what it seemed when Kiefer interviewed him, it seemed like it was, I'm good now. You know, why weren't you in minicamp? You know what I mean? And it kind of seems like that's – I don't know. That seems a little iffy to me.

It almost seems like he's relaxed, a little too relaxed to be assuming that he's a lock on this roster with all the height, athleticism, and speed that a lot of these unknown wide receivers are going to bring to training camp. I think you're absolutely right in suggesting that he's not a lock at all. And I think some people tend to assume that he might be because he was a first round pick a couple of years ago. Well, that was with a different GM a couple of years ago. I don't think that's going to guarantee him anything. And I think he's been past this often, to be quite honest with you. I think he's right now considered to be the fifth wide receiver on the roster.

I think you've got T.Y. Hilton, Dante Moncrief, Kamar Aiken, and then Chester Rogers, who's really impressed this offseason and made a lot of plays. I think Dorsett at this point is considered to be the fifth wide. And I even wrote an article about that not too long ago. I keep mentioning that interview that ballard did last week but he he even you know he was he mentioned those four guys it's like in that competition for the fifth spot it's going to be pretty pretty intense or whatever and he's like you know dorsett made some good plays when he was

out there and he's like well i really shouldn't say just for the fifth spot but it was pretty clear that that was the way he was thinking and so so I think if Dorsett is, at this point, considered to be the fifth guy, even if there's competition for those spots, two through five, whatever it might be, even if he's considered to be that, he's lost some ground, and he shouldn't be taking anything for granted right now because with all those undrafted receivers and some of the young guys that got in there, I would not be shocked at all if Dorsett's not on the roster come week one. It's just he's going to have to earn his spot. And that'll be interesting to see in preseason if he does that. Yeah. And not this wide receiver group specifically, but wide

receiver competition in general is always so fluid because you see, well, what body type are they missing outside of their first four? Well, they've got Hilton. He's the speeder. You know, Dorsett's kind of their backup Hilton, so to speak. But then you get to where, why does it even matter? It doesn't. Rodgers was a perfect example of that last year because he was skinny.

He was tall. His weight was down. But, you know, you get into a guy like that and all it matters is do you catch the ball do you run a good route and can luck depend on you you know and that ultimately is what's going to win somebody that fifth roster spot and you know fourth fifth I still think that's up in the air a little bit but I you know you know as well as anybody I'm a clear lover of Chester Rogers and you know Dorsett just hasn't done enough. And I did do a piece on that some of his catch percentage stuff was a bit unfair

because a lot of his targets were way off target, you know, or throwaways or something like that. But there's something that's there on other stuff as well that's, you know, he's not getting to the spot on time or something, but something that we can't possibly know as the observer. You know, something's different or wrong with his route. So this wide receiver group might be a great one. The next one is tight ends.

That's going to be a fantastic one. I mean, they almost bypassed Swope as the number two, which has kind of been everybody's assumption that he's going to be the number two tight end guy. Williams is a guy who steps in, can block, doesn't have hardly any catches in his career, but he can catch the ball. He's athletic enough to be. But Daryl Daniels, a lot of people are liking his. One of the things that George told us a couple weeks ago was that Daniels looked like a wide receiver with his height and Bug Howard looked like the tight end. You know, it was kind of funny that those two were like that,

but he said it wasn't the way they played. It was their size and their build and stuff like that. But Colin Jeter, I don't think Mo'Ally Cox is going to be pushing for a roster spot, to be quite honest with you. He just doesn't have the experience, obviously. But I think that they've got some real competition definitely in depth chart rank on there for the tight end spot. So that'll be a fun one to watch as well. Yeah, and I think a lot of that's going to come down to,

like you said, down the depth chart because you've got Jack Doyle one, and I think Eric Swoop's probably the two, just considering how excited they are and how much they want to see what he can do. I think he'll probably be there and then they'll probably keep three and three at this point it seems like brandon williams and partly because you're going to want a blocker there doyle can doyle can do it all he can catch and block swoop is you're receiving tight end and then williams could be your blocker but there are some guys i mean like you mentioned daniels i'm i'm very interested in seeing what he can do uh and then you said mo alley cox i mean i think he's more of a candidate for the practice squad he's more of a developmental guy kind of

like eric swoop was but there are some there's going to be some interesting competition there down on the depth chart a little bit of tight end and a lot of people will focus on well they got jack doyle they got eric swoop they're set there's going chart a little bit at tight end, and a lot of people will focus on, well, they've got Jack Doyle, they've got Eric Swoop, they're set. There's going to be some interesting competition, if only for the number three spot, and then just to see how that plays out as well. I assume that Swoop will be the number two guy.

He'll be that guy, but if he doesn't produce, how long do you wait? That's something I don't think we can know at this point, and the hope is that he'll produce. I think he probably will, at least as a receiver receiver but there's going to be some interesting things to watch because outside of Doyle there's really no one that's truly proven there right exactly we get over to the offensive line you know we've seen that Jeremy Vunovic has moved into left guard when Muhort was out so has Brian Schy uh to take that spot so it was something that you know vunavish being a left tackle was moving into the guard so a lot of

these guys a lot of depth we know about the denzel good thing how he started at guard last year a lot of people think that he was better served as a tackle or just whatever a better depth guy didn't have a great year last year the raven cl in did phenomenal Joe Haig was really a good Swiss Army knife last year for the Colts really outplayed his rookie status Ryan Kelly was another fantastic pickup obviously Costanzo was better than people want to admit but just in general is there anything along that offensive line there that you think will really surprise anybody aside from that? You know, because that top five, I think that's their five. I really do.

I think that anybody else who's going to break into that really has to have an awesome, awesome summer at camp to get into that. But outside of that, do you think you see anybody really battling for any of that? Well, I mean, I think even that top five is going to surprise a lot of national people who still think that uh joe haig's going to play tackle or whatnot but besides for that yeah i mean i think you're right those those five seem like they're they're the guys and unless something surprising happens they're going to be it so i don't really see a ton of big surprises at least for the people that um have been following that clark's at right tackle jo people that have been following that Clark's at right tackle, Joe Hague's at right guard. I don't think there's going to be many surprises. I think

what we could see is some of the depth guys competing for roster spots more than some might think. For example, Denzel Good, if he guaranteed a roster spot, probably not. At this point, if you were to make a roster projection, he's on it. But if he guaranteed a spot, probably not. So I think those are kind of more the questions that would be surprising is if something like that did happen. I'm not predicting it, not saying it's going to. But I think there are some guys, at least when it comes to the depth,

who aren't as secure as you might think. And so I think you've probably got those five. They're locked into the roster. Brian Schwenke is probably locked into the roster. After that, I think it becomes a little less certain of who's for sure. I mean, Zach Banner, he's probably going to make it. But, you know, I think that there are some depth pieces that are more up for grabs than some might think.

That would be the only surprise, because I don't think that there's going to be a lot of intrigue going forward. The Colts are going to keep saying, oh, the right side of the line is open for competition. They're going to keep saying that and they'll probably just keep having the same first team in practice every day. It'll just become obvious that those are the guys. I think more interesting will be, well, who would slide into this position if so-and-so got hurt or things like that. You mentioned if Jack Mewhart went well, who would slide into this position if so-and-so got hurt or things like that.

You mentioned if Jack Mewhart went out, who would be there? Would it be Brian Schwenke? Would it be someone else? Those are more the things that are interesting. I don't think there's really any big surprises, so to speak. Yeah, I agree. I, for one, I think we've talked about this in the past. I'm pretty excited about that offensive line this year.

It looks like they've got at least some simple depth, and I think they've got a quality starting five right now who, you know, is on the come up in, in other words. But, uh, before we go any further, we got a couple of call-ins and, uh, Josh wanted to go through these with you. I'll let you kind of snag this one and then we'll go, uh, back and forth a little bit and, uh, and bit and discuss the answers to these. So let's take our first call. Hey, Matt, it's Mark Crowder from Columbus. Love your show.

Try to tell people about it. Long-time listener, first-time caller. I'd like to kind of discuss kind of our defensive strategy and sub-packages a little bit. If you could kind of go through your ideas around the 4-3. I know we've kind of gone back and forth on Twitter about that, but I'd love to hear you go more in depth around that. Maybe touch on the concept of too high safety with the personnel we have. You know, what do you think about the Hooker-Butler tandem back there? I don't know. There are just some really exciting sub-package ideas that I'd love to hear

you explore and whatever other ideas you come up with. Thanks, man. Thanks, Mark, for the call in. And, you know, he brings up a couple things that I think that we, and he's right, we've touched on this on the show in the past, but one of the more exciting things that he brings are, you know, things that we've, that are exciting to think about with this new defense is how often will they run a four-man front? Who will be in that four-man front? When they are doing the two-high, more than likely, like he said, when Butler's back there and Hooker will probably be the single-high guy a lot for themselves.

But this defense, these guys that have been brought in, some of the draft picks, they really do actually present some interesting combinations of talent on the field. Josh, you want to knock a couple of those out? Yes. I mean, I think if I'm understanding the question correctly, it's about the Colts defensive system. And what we've seen, even in the last couple of years, is they've become more flexible, so to speak, about what they've been running defensively.

So they're not, you know, they run a 3-4, but they're not a strict 3-4. They're not even a 3-4 most of the time. I would say most of the time they're in the nickel. And so, you know, they're very flexible in terms of what they run. We haven't seen them run a four-man front as often as, you know, a three-man front or things like that. But we've seen them use different formations. And even last year, we saw this a lot, for example, with Clayton Gethers coming up in the box. So we've seen them be willing to utilize their defensive scheme to fit their personnel more so than they have been at times. And hopefully that trend continues with Chuck Pagano being more flexible

in terms of what he's going to be willing to do. So if these guys are better suited for a four-man front, they've got some guys that are going to be able to move in there and to do that. And I would think probably a lot of that would depend on how they're generating pressure. If they need to do that to get pressure, put the guys at defensive end to rush in the traditional 4-3 system, so to speak, like they used to run with Freeney and Mathis, just for comparison's sake.

If they need to do that to get pressure, hopefully they'll be willing enough to do so. So I think what we've seen is that they're getting more and more flexible with the way that they run it, and so there's still a 3-4 defense, but hopefully they'll be able to adapt and to utilize that more. Yeah, I agree. And there was something I wanted to touch on with this. A lot of what the Colts are able to do is absolutely predicated on what the offense across the ball is doing.

I mean, these guys are not going to be able to run very many four-man fronts if they've got four wide receivers. You know, they're going to have to jump themselves into nickel. I mean, they could bring a guy down into the box. Like you said, they could bring one of the outside linebackers in, which kind of brings me to something that is, I don't want to say confusing, I'm just curious about it, is they still have Basham listed on the roster as a defensive end. And I'm not sure that that's, I don't know whether that's intentional or they're intentionally misleading or if they actually see him as a defensive end. We won't really know that until camp to kind of see,

do they have him down in a four-point? What do they see in him? Because another guy that really offers some of that defensive end stuff on a four three setup is Sheard. Sheard is a guy who really exploded off the line when he was in Cleveland and he was a fourth down lineman, you know, ultimately there. So there are some exciting things what they can do up front but you know just like when the Colts struggle against Pittsburgh especially a couple years ago when they were running the stacks on each side of the of the formation you can't do a bunch of stuff

up front with the front four as much as you can in other packages because the Colts were terrible in that regard you know that just ate them up all game and so you can't other packages because the Colts were terrible in that regard. You know, that just ate them up all game. And so you can't take the chance of adding another defensive lineman when you really need a guy who can cover in there for something. And so that's first. But they do, between the guys that they've been running in and out at nose tackle, the guys that they've been scooting around at three-tech and five-tech, there is a lot of combinations that could be really fun to watch. and out at nose tackle, the guys that they've been scooting around at three tech and five tech,

there is a lot of combinations that could be really fun to watch. They've been moving, I guess Jonathan Hankins has been down there virtually in the three tech almost the entire time, wherein Al Woods has been the nose tackle. So you do have Henry Anderson and Lankford who are natural five techs. Those guys can do that as well, but you've also got some pieces you can move around. As far as the back end goes, I think that you agree that it's going to be a little bit of a learning curve, in my opinion, for Malik Hooker. I don't expect him to come out there and just be through the first three weeks of the season then talking about rookie of the year. I just don't expect that.

He's got too much to do. He just doesn't have enough experience in college. That doesn't mean I don't think he's good and he's going to be really good. That just means that I think that we need to temper our expectations for early season success as far as back there. There's really going to be an interesting dynamic with how they move Butler around. What if Clayton Gethers is able to play at all? And if so, how much? You know, Matthias Farley was really impressive in camp. And, you

know, TJ Green still got a long way to go. But they've got some guys like Tyvus Powell that they got just recently off the waiver wire. Tyson Graham, from what I understand, played pretty well. So there's a lot of moving around on the back end that they can do. And that in itself, again, that's predicated on what the offense is doing. They're going to bring T.J. Green down into the box to go after the passer. They're going to have Gethers down there to help against the run more than likely because T.J. Green comes downhill to help against the run typically. They don't have him in there to be a run stopper.

But Gethers is also their best cover guy back there, whether nationally people want to acknowledge that or not. So there's a lot of things that the Colts can do on the back end. But I think that the most interesting thing to me is to really see where Darius Butler ends up back there. He is a ball hawk. He struggles to be – he likes to be physical, but he's scary when he's physical because he also gets hurt in the process.

So there's a lot of fun on the back end of the Colts' defense. But do you see anything, you know, of particular nature that they're going to do anything maybe creative with those safeties to try to throw off other offenses? I think really the whole safety discussion hinges on Clayton Gathers and his health because he is so important to what they do with their safeties because, you know, they love their interchangeable safeties. And part of that is Gathers, as you mentioned,

can come down in the box and be a force against the run, and he can also cover. And so one of the things that affords the Colts is, for example, if it was Gathers and Hooker, who I think would be the two starting safeties if everyone's healthy. And again, the question about Darius Butler is very interesting. But if we're talking about Hooker and Gathers, you've got two guys there who are both able to cover, and so I think the caller even had

the question about more too-high-safety looks or something like that. They would be able to do that, but you also, the offense wouldn't just be able to automatically assume that's what's going to happen, because Gethers can also come down in the box and play, which is crucial for the Colts' defense to be able to disguise what they're going to do with what Gethers does. If you have Butler and Hooker in there, their strengths, both of them, are in coverage. And so what's going to happen there? And so I think that's going to be really the interesting thing is if they have Gethers in there, I think we can see them get pretty creative.

And they did at some points last year playing him more as a linebacker or down in the box or things like that. I think that's really where their creativity is going to come and I think they would love to be able to do that to take some of the pressure off of Hooker to allow him to play in coverage where he's most natural and there's going to be some learning curve there especially adjusting to the NFL speed I mean he he hasn't even been on the practice field yet to get used to that speed and so hopefully you, the plan is he'll be back in training camp and get adjusted for that. But there'll be some adjustment coverage too.

But that's where he's most natural. And I think if they allow him to do that as much as possible, they're going to see better results than trying to force him to be the all-around perfect safety right away. And a lot of that, again, depends on gethers. And like you even mentioned the offensive system that the other team is running impacts what they're going to do with their safety so if you're if you're going to run a too high safety look and they come out with a

three or four wide receiver offense with a tight end who can also do damage underneath then it might not work out as well as if you know know, they're just in a standard two tight end, two receiver formation. So a lot of what they're going to do is dependent upon what the offense does. But in terms of how creative they get with safeties, I think a lot of that depends on Clayton Gathers and his health. If he can get back there, I think we'll see the Colts be pretty creative about how they use the three guys being Gathers, Hooker, and Butler, and then also rotate

in the others. If Gathers isn't in there, I think it'll become much more interesting because you've got guys who are primarily coverage guys, which could that mean they bring in Matthias Farley or TJ Green more? Who knows? But I think that's what's really interesting. And it all depends on when Gathers gets back healthy. Yeah, I agree. And something that you hit on there that I kind of expand upon is a lot of what's going to depend on who gets some of these odd count snaps, second down, third down snaps, is going to really be who in camp, who in preseason, and who throughout the season as it goes forward shows that versatility of being able to do multiple things.

Gethers, you know, the ultimate use for him is to be able to use him in coverage, but like you said, bringing him down to the box, it's about timing. It's coming down half a second before the ball snaps so that the team doesn't have time to adjust to it, the offense. You know, a lot of this stuff with these guys, you know, we need an inside linebacker who can prove that he can cover. We need outside linebackers who can drop into the zones and be effective still in the pass rush. And they've got to have a guy who can be one of those outside linebackers like Sheard, who I theoretically think can be another fourth lineman if it comes down to it. These things will add a lot of versatility to this Colts defense if they can do it and if they prove that they can.

And that will ultimately make them a really hard out, I think, when it comes to the season. You can look at this and be like, yep, they don't have this or that or this roster is kind of blah or just whatever thing. There's been enough done, in my opinion, to where they can really make teams think, and if they prove that they can play at a high level at some point, and if they can kind of outshine some of their offenses they're lining up against, they can win a lot of games. They're going to have some games there in the first half of their schedule

where they can really take some people by surprise. If they can do that, we could have an exciting season. And I think one of the things that is kind of running throughout what we've been talking about is the coaching staff. And they've got as much young, moldable talent right now on that defense as they've had during the Chuck Pagano era. And so it's not perfect. You know, the defense is far from perfect.

It's far from fixed, so to speak. But they've got talent there that if the coaching staff, Chuck Pagano, Ted Monachino, the other coaches, they're going to have to be creative about how to use guys. They're going to have to make sure they're using them to their strength, that they're getting the most out of this talent. I think that's as much of a key thing as anything is how does this coaching staff maximize talent? And for the Colts, that's going to be a win-win because either you see that Pagano and his staff isn't maximizing the talent and therefore should be gone, or you see, hey, this defense is coming along quite nicely. And so I think one of the key things to look at is how is this coaching staff

going to utilize the guys that have now been put in place and how are they going to develop them absolutely and i also still think that clayton gethers health uh determines a lot whether the colts use a little bit more cover three this year which i think they're kind of designed to do um so well thank you mark for the question very good uh i appreciate it now let's go on to this next one here i thought this one was really interesting and i'm anxious to next one here. I thought this one was really interesting, and I'm anxious to see what your answer is for this one as well. Hi, Matt. This is Brackett from Chicago. Great work with the show. Really appreciate all the time you put into it. It's been a lot of fun to listen to. I saw this topic online,

and I was wondering your thoughts. If the franchise could bring back anybody in the history of the Colts to play on the team right now, who would they pick and why? I saw in the article they picked Bob Sanders, so I was just wondering who you would pick and what your thoughts are on that. Thanks a lot. Have a good one. Josh, I love this question. I thought that was really – I hadn't seen that article,

so that question kind of took me by surprise. But it doesn't surprise me that Bob Sanders would be a lot of people's picks as well, I think. Who would you drop into that bucket? That's a great question. I think – let's see. It's not easy. No, there's a lot of players I would want to take.

Let's put it that way. I mean, the obvious answer would be someone like Peyton Manning or Marvin Harrison. Those guys are the Hall of Famers. But what does this team actually need? I mean, obviously, if you put Peyton Manning on any team, it's going to be better. I would probably go someone on the defensive side of the football

just because of the way they're currently structured. And, you know, I'd be tempted to pick Bob Sanders. It would probably be either Sanders or one of the pass rushers, Fring or Mathis. And the real question with those two, I mean, actually with Mathis, we know how he played in the 3-4. And Fring even, you know, he showed, more so after he left Indy, but he showed he could play in the 3-4 as well.

That would be my main question is how would Freeney fit into the defense. But if you have a guy like Dwight Freeney and you're not going to use him to his strength, that's on the coaching staff. So, you know, I would probably go either one of those pass rushers or Bob Sanders. I think any one of those three, assuming they're in the prime and healthy, which is key for Bob Sanders, they would be an immediate difference maker on a defense that really doesn't have many of those.

They don't have many elite players. And you put any of those – I mean, I think what this defense really lacks is a pass rusher. They've just hung their secondary up to dry for several years. They haven't been able to get after the quarterback, which would make me think either Freeney or Mathis would be huge additions. But then Bob Sanders, I mean, he was just so good at a number of things and was a huge difference maker.

So really either or any of those three guys really would be great. I don't know if you're going to make me pick one of them. No, no, not necessarily. I won't make you do that. But Bob Sanders is a lot of fun obviously you know my thoughts are you know i want we what do we need like you said we do we do have frank gore we did draft a running back but edgar and james man give me that dude on this on this offense because what what were we doing when uh uh whoever that one guy was that we spent a first round draft pick on you know a couple years ago we ended up what do we do

with that every single one of us and me included i'll raise my hand in stupidity gladly because i was pumped about that thought that we were getting another payton Edge combination in Indy. And like I said, I'm as guilty of anybody. I have no problem admitting that I was just absolutely jumping up and down, and I'm pretty sure my oldest son was too, because that was going to be a wow possibilities between Luck and Richardson. And we didn't get that. So Edrin James would be hard for me to turn away from. But another area, like you said, on defense, what do we need?

We need a guy who can be a linebacker as well, get some pass rush. I don't think we got a ton of pass rush from Gary Brackett or Kato June, but those guys were phenomenal linebackers. And, you know, just averaging 70, 80, 90 tackles a season, couple passes defended. You know, those guys were really good. And, you know, Kato June was even a guy who could put the ball back in the end zone and pick it up or pick it off, you know.

He ended up having several four or five interception seasons as a linebacker, and those might be the guys that i would go for you know when we when we look at and i'm kind of sticking in the same era but it's only because it's been the last time that we've had some of these guys that were quality to be quite honest with you and then you look at the cornerback situation yes we have vante we now have quincy wilson but nick harper was the last guy the colts drafted that was even around for more than a few years at cornerback you know what I mean he was okay he was pretty decent he he got a lot of tackles he he put his hand on the ball he defended some passes I think he had a few years in a row where

he was in between 15 and 20 defended passes a year that's okay I mean we we would settle for that right now you know mean, give me a break. So I think there's a few guys specifically from that era that I really like, but those guys would all be. But man, somebody says, hey, you want prime Dwight Freeney on your Colts team right now? I am not telling them no. So give me a ton of them but man those are those are the core guys i think that i would really take those guys were a lot of fun really good uh as far as i'm concerned at what they did and you know what was uh gary bracket was undrafted right kato june was out of michigan i believe is that correct i believe so yep okay so some of these guys weren't you know, Kato June was not a guy that everybody's ranting and raving about.

I can't say for when he was drafted because I don't remember that, and I'm not going to try and pretend that I do. But these guys weren't, like, huge names nationally, and, man, they were, like, the core and the heart and soul of this Colts defense when they actually had a defense. Yep. I mean, if you're talking about who would be most exciting to watch, I'm just imagining putting Edwin James in that offense.

That would be fun to watch. Oh, man. That would be a blast. Like I said, that would be impossible to turn off. I mean, like I said, I mean, I was literally, it was only a few years ago, but I was literally a 15 year old little boy there for about 45 minutes after they announced the Trent Richardson trade. And I just could not believe my ears. And I thought it was the best move ever. Uh, I thought it was huge, you know, all the detractors and people were saying he

wasn't any good. I'm like, man, the dude was injured last year. Well, not last year, but, you know, the year before he came to Indy, he was injured and still ran. He ran over Indy and was plowing people. He didn't have to have space. He was running over guys. He didn't have a ton of yards, but he was effective getting into the end zone. And I thought, that's what we need.

We'll have a change of pace back. That'll be fine. But he's smart enough and good enough running back, especially if he's healthy, he's going to be fine. And man, wow, that just did, that just, you know, it got ugly quick, but yeah, give me edge all day, every day. Give me a few of those guys for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for the question, man. That was a phenomenal question, actually.

I don't even know if – I mean, I'm sure that I've thought about that in theory, but never really pushed myself to come up with an answer. So if I'm coming up with an answer, I'm going Edger and James for sure. It's fun to think about. It is. It was a great question. I really appreciate that. And, you know chicago is where

he is from chicago is one of the best listeners of this podcast so indianapolis synesville you guys are going to have to pick it up a little bit because we can't have chicago being some of our best listeners but i appreciate you chicago make no mistake about it so uh is there any other the guys on the defense here josh that that kind of really are people that you want to follow into training camp that you think either are going to present serious camp battles or are going to be guys that you think are just going to ascend to the top of the list at their given position? I think there's really too many to mention here. I mean, really every new guy that's been added to the defense almost. But I think really if we're talking about one area that I'm really interested to look at is the inside linebacker position, just because we have no idea what's going to happen there.

You have an idea, even outside linebacker, I mean, John Simon, Jabal Sheard, they're going to be kind of the guys there there's going to be some other guys Terrell Basham and some of the other guys are going to be in the mix there at inside linebacker it seems like it's completely wide open and it seems that Sean Spence and John Bostic are kind of emerging they're both impressed in the autism program but there's a lot of guys there that I don't think there's any one guy in that position that's great or that's going to be the answer to the position

but the overall both spots seem pretty open at least as open as any spot on the roster so i'm really interested in seeing that i'm interested in seeing how anthony walker there that position performs um you know the rookie out of northwestern um i think he's a guy that could factor into the mix some. I think Sean Spence, we talk about you need linebackers who can cover. I think John Bostick has kind of been forgotten over the last several years. What can he do? Edwin Jackson, Antonio Morrison,

they're returning from after they started several games a year ago to mixed results. They got run over, I mean, completely run over in Oakland. There's a lot of guys on that defense at inside linebacker. That's going to be a key position battle

because we don't know who's going to wind up starting. But that's going to be important because you're going to need those guys to step up, particularly against the run, but also in the pass some too. You're going to need those guys to step up. And that seems to me, at least right now, to be the most wide open position battle on the roster. So I'm really looking forward to seeing that. You know, you're looking forward to seeing the rookies, obviously, how Quincy Wilson

does. I'm interested in seeing what happens at nickel in the corner position, because I really, you know, I think the best option would be to play hooker and Guthers at safety, assuming Guthers is healthy and Butler in the nickel. But it seems that they're still saying, Butler's at safety, we'll play him in the nickel if need be. So I don't know what they're going to do there. I think Nate Hairston, the corner they drafted out of Temple, it seems he's been playing a lot of nickel.

Daryl Morris is another guy I think can play there. That's going to be a key spot because in today's NFL, the nickel corner spot is basically a starter. Whether you open the game in nickel or not, I treat that as a starting position. And at that spot, we really don't know what's going on. Butler's proven he can play there, but we don't know if he's going to be playing there often.

So I'm really interested in seeing probably the inside linebacker position and the nickel corner position are probably the two battles that I'll be most interested in seeing because pass rush I mean that's important but we kind of know what they have there they've got guys who are solid can do it but there's not really a question about who's going to be playing there I think there's a big question about who's going to be playing inside linebacker and nickel right and I agree with you on nickel. I really like Daryl Morris. I watched a little bit of his film maybe a week or two ago, and I spoke about this recently,

but Daryl Morris was really impressive last year. He was almost as impressive as I thought Rashawn Melvin was last year, and it was low-key too because I didn't really notice Morris as much as I did Melvin last year. Unfairly to Morris, but he was pretty good, especially for a guy coming in and just being on the team for one year and coming in and doing it. I actually think that Rashawn Melvin and I wrote this, but I really believe it. I believe that Melvin has a legit possibility of starting the season as QB two or cornerback two and opposite Vontae Davis. But, you know, they, they, they got rid of Reginald Porter.

So that's not a guy who's going to be fighting for the roster anymore. You know, you got Chris Milton there, Tevin Mitchell, there's Nate Harrison, really interesting guy, as far as I'm concerned. I think that, you know, and George has poked to this a couple times that they think he thinks that he's going to be primarily a uh special teams guy you know necessary especially to start but i'm really interested to see how he develops through the years he a guy who gets some snaps because he's developing in in camp or in practice i really think that he's a guy who can come in because he's got a lot of what the Colts need. Ball skills, athleticism, height, speed. He's got a lot of it, and he's going to

surprise some people too, but I agree with you. I think that nickel spot is really interesting. Inside linebacker is really interesting because one of the things that they really do have with Antonio Morrison and Edwin Jackson specifically, regardless if they start or not, those guys got a lot of really important experience last year. And that, it can't be a bad thing for your top four guys. Two of them got a lot of starting experience last year. Two of them have been injured, but have shown flashes of being really good in the past. And you've got ultimately a hitter in Bostic and you've got a guy who is very much a combination of everything that you want from the position in Sean Spence I'm I am also very curious almost borderline excited to see Anthony Walker because I haven't really talked

highly about him from the college tape I wasn't very impressed with him. I don't, at the time, I just didn't see the drive for him to be, you know, what they keep talking about. But I'm excited. I like being wrong when I talk like that. You know, don't get me wrong. I want to be proven wrong. So I'm excited to see Anthony Walker. Luke Rhodes was a guy who got a lot of talk early in OTAs, and he was moving in and out of the first and second team squads there at inside linebacker. So I think they've got a really deep group right there. And I think that's going to add for just more fun for training camp, you know, to watch that position as well. So that's, that's a lot of it. And a lot of the, you know, I really just want to

find out what defensive line we're going to have, who's the three guys that are going to start there. You know, the show me the three guys that are going to start there? Show me the three guys that are going to start and where. Because that is really ultimately going to depend on who is like maybe a low-key, unseen cut when it comes down to the roster at the end. Because McGill, as much as everybody likes McGill and how much he plays and what he does, even though it doesn't show up on the stat because McGill, as much as everybody likes McGill and how much he plays and what he does, even though it doesn't show up on the stat sheet a lot, he could be a camp casualty when it comes down to the end.

We just don't know. I mean, I don't perceive that to happen. I'm just saying. Margus Hunt could be gone, and they just signed him. Probably not, but you know what I'm saying. David Perry, I think that a lot of people would suspect that he's going to be gone, but he had a ton of tackles last year, man, like 47 tackles last year. And that's crazy from a nose tackle.

And I think a lot of the defensive line thing, we mentioned it earlier, is where are the guys going to play? Is Jonathan Hankins going to be a nose tackle, or is it going to be Al Woods or whoever it might be? I mean, we don't even know where the guys are going to play, much less who's going to be on the roster. So I think that's a really deep position, but it's a position that there's going to be a lot of competition,

even though probably the starting level or the guys that are at the top of that position are better than the guys who are at the top of other positions on the defense. There's going to be a lot of competition there especially for roster spots for playing time i mean hasan ridgway could factor into that starting competition uh kendall langford what's going to happen with him when's he going to be back healthy there's a lot of questions that and i i think that's kind of getting glossed over because it's so deep and there's actual talent there which is which can't always be said

about some of the other spots, at least proven talent. And one of the guys that I think that I don't know if I've even talked about him on the show, but I know that once the Colts signed him, I watched a lot of his tape. And one of the guys that I think is low-key really super interesting going into camp is Joston Thomas, the defensive end from Iowa, or Iowa State, I mean. And, I mean, he's long, and I just, I would like, I'm excited to see where he fits as camp starts to roll on. He's a very interesting guy to me to watch in that group. So, youngster, and probably, I think he's, I wouldn't say safe, but I think that I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up being a practice squad guy, but I'd really like to see him surprise some people and end up, you know, really fighting for that roster. And I wanted to ask you too, as well, because this is something

new this coming year and we've talked about it in the past with other guests, but I want to get your opinion on it as well. Do you like the one cut down to the 53 now, or did you like the gradual, the two-step approach? I really like the change to one cut. I think it makes a lot of sense. And I think especially it never really made a ton of sense to me. I mean, I get why they did it. But to have the first roster cut down before the fourth preseason game

when most of the backups play significant minutes, that never really made a ton of sense to me because you're going to be or you're going to be resting your starters and playing your backup so i think what this does is it's going to give those bottom of the roster guys one last chance to compete for those spots it's going to give them um another game and several more practices to be able to say, hey, I belong either on the 53 man or on the practice squad. And odds are it's not going to change much from if they just had another cut. But we might see some guys who in the fourth preseason game just really, really impressed. And maybe they'll earn a spot as one of the 63 guys on

either squad. And so I think it's a good thing. I think it'll give guys more competition. The downside is that it'll make that one cut day a really significant day in the NFL because there's going to be a ton of guys losing jobs. And you never like that. Coaches hate it. Teams hate it. You hate cutting all those guys at once.

And I could even see a situation where teams start cutting guys before they have to. So maybe they don't bring a 90-man roster into that final preseason game. Maybe they already have cut a few guys. But what it gives you is the flexibility to say, we want to see this guy in one more game, just see what he can do. We're going to be resting our starters anyway. So now we've got a more full roster to be able to say, let's give these guys one last chance to compete, maybe even on special teams. I think it's a good move because it's going to give those guys one last shot and maybe they'll still wind up being cut anyway, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, think about it this way. You're going to, I mean, so you're getting getting you're going from 90 to 53 so you're going you're cutting

37 guys from 32 teams in one day that is a ton of free people that's like almost 24 teams worth of players of 53 man rosters i mean because they've got to be cut you know to be pulled back into the practice squad. So people don't forget that. It's not like they just say, you're staying, these 63 are staying. They've got to cut their practice squad guys that they want before they come back. So none of it's a given. I've talked about this just recently, but I really think that a lot of the guys, not a lot,

there's going to be some guys at a few different positions on this team that aren't on the roster come cut day, and we're going to end up bringing some guys in from other teams. Absolutely. There's going to be some fun additions, I think, still to come. I really do, because there's always surprise cuts. There's always surprise cuts, whether it's a young guy. There's always surprise cuts, whether it's

a young guy might be out playing a guy, but you know, you've got to think a roster wise, you know, competition at certain positions. If certain guys are cut at cornerback and they've got a cornerback that may be the fourth corner on theirs, but he's better than the third on ours. He's they're going to bring him in because that's all exactly what Chris Ballard has been talking about. And we talked about it recently as well about how much Ballard really believes in this competition stuff and so do the teammates. And he said that he's going to be – the locker room will be watching him.

So everything from what we talked about right off the jump from the quarterback competition has to be a real competition because these guys are all watching. And they want to know that if they play their butts off in camp and in preseason that they have a chance to make this roster legitimately, not because who they are, where they came from, or anything else. And that's important to this team, and that's how you build a roster. I mean, that's just how you do it.

You don't want to see certain guys not go. But look, if T.Y. McGill isn't – I mean, as much as we love him, if he's not the guy that they want him to be in preseason, he's going to go. He's going to be gone. Yeah, and just mentioning that competition thing, I love – there's a quote from chris ballard this offseason where he said you can't preach competition and then not live it and what he was saying is if you're gonna say competition competition competition which we've heard all over

you're gonna have to live it out and he gave the example of last year in kansas city they drafted kavari russell what was it second or third round something like that and they cut him and he's like it's because this guy outplayed him. And we were leaving out that competition thing. So I think you're absolutely right. They're not going to be done just when they're not going to just cut the roster down to 53 and be like, we're done. You said they're going to be very active at the cut-down point

throughout the season of making moves. And that's another thing. We'll see with the one cut down, we'll see a lot of guys being claimed that next day. I mean, it might not be more than normal if you combine the two cuts together, but we're going to see a high volume of guys who are claimed the next day.

And probably the Colts are going to be pretty involved in that, I'd imagine, because they're going to be looking to add more talent and bring guys in. Rashawn Melvin, Darryl Morris were guys that they got last year in that sort of situation, weren't they? Uh-huh, absolutely. So it's like you can find talent there that's going to wind up helping you a lot. And so I think Chris Ballard's going to really try to do that at the cut down point. Yeah, I think he is too.

I think he and Dobbs and all the other guys that he's brought in already, they're all going to be sitting by the waiver wire. You know, I mean, that's a ridiculous thing to say. There is not actually a waiver wire, but you know what I'm saying, that they're sitting on. But you know what I mean? They're going to be watching for transactions coming across the wire, and they are going to hit it up. And we're going to see, I think we're going to see a significant difference.

I'd say maybe five to seven guys, you know, possibly get claimed depending on what it goes. I mean, that seems like a really high number, but it would not surprise me a bit. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there'll be a lot of guys claimed. And even then, there's always those sort of roster maneuvering techniques that teams pull.

Like last year, the Colts kept Stephen Morris as their third quarterback a couple days because they didn't want to expose him to that first initial waiver. You know, teams are trying all sorts of stuff. So we'll see what the Colts do, but I imagine they'll be very, very active within the first couple days of that roster cut down and waiver claim and all that sort of thing. stuff. So we'll see what the Colts do, but I imagine they'll be very, very active there within the first couple days of that roster cut down and waiver claim and all that sort of thing. Yeah, me too. Josh, it was a lot of fun talking with you tonight, man. I appreciate you stopping

by. Absolutely. It's my pleasure. Thank you guys for listening. Make sure you guys follow Josh. Still a great mind for anything football, especially Colts and also Notre Dame if you guys like those guys. He's definitely a big Notre Dame fan. Make sure you guys are following Josh at JoshWilsonSB on

Twitter. Josh, is there anything that anybody can follow you outside of this right now? We already prefaced the show with the news for the most part. But what else are you going to be getting into that you'll be sharing on Twitter? Anything? Well, I mean, that's where you can find me is follow me on Twitter, and you'll be able to keep up with kind of what's going on.

And so I don't have anything in terms of in the works of online presence or anything like that that people can follow yet. But for sure, if something comes up, I'll mention it on Twitter. So if you follow there, you'll be able to keep up with my life and what's going on, and we'll still talk Colts quite a bit. Absolutely. So thank you again, Josh, for listening.

Thank you guys for the call-ins. Make sure if you guys want to do that that you guys are using the call-in number. It's 574-516-2881. We'll answer the calls like we did tonight. Whether it's me or a guest or whoever, we'll get to them and answer them the best that we can. Thank you guys. Continue to give those ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts. Those are great. Our show numbers continue to go up all because of you guys and you sharing the show. We really appreciate it. It does nothing but help get this show noticed more on

a larger platform and gets our Colts talk a little more noticed. I will talk to you guys all. Thank you again, Josh. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you guys for listening and we'll talk to you all tomorrow right here on Locked on Colts. You are Locked on Colts, your daily podcast on the Indianapolis Colts,

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