Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS -6/23- Colts Secondary Still A Legitimate Concern W/@1070Bruno

Episode Date: June 23, 2017

Among the constant offseason story lines, the #Colts secondary - while having some pieces - still could be a sore spot on the defense. When considering current injuries, trying to predict other's health, the team needs huge seasons out of some very inexperienced players. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

No, I'm not for sale. You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back to Locked On Colts, ladies and gentlemen. I'm your host, Matt Dainley. Thank you guys for joining me again for a third time this week. And today we got a great guest, Conrad Bruner from 1070 The Fan. Conrad, thanks for joining me, man.

Anytime, boss. So you have a specific point of view as well. And when we get into this, what to look forward to in the training camp after OTAs and minicamp and so on, what may be the most interesting storyline for you as you go into this? Aside from injury stuff, what is it that really has you thinking out loud about some of this roster? Well, to me, the most interesting things are injury stuff. I mean, you've got to see what Andrew Luck is or isn't doing when training camp opens, because so much depends upon that. You need to see where Lankford is. You need to see if Clayton Gethers is on any type of road to recovery or what his situation is. So, you know, there are a lot of areas

physically that you really are going to have to monitor on a practice-to-practice basis. But in terms of position groups and such, really need to see, obviously, the defense is going to be job one, priority one, focus one, all through all of this, settling out who's going to play where. Where is Hankins going to play? Because he's not really a true nose. He's more of a, you know, he's not a zero technique. He's more of a one or a three.

He's actually played a little five here and there. They've got to figure out, you know, are they going to switch their people around situationally? Are they going to have a static line, a fixed line? I don't know. We've got to see how that sorts out. Got to figure out how the know, are they going to switch their people around situationally? Are they going to have a static line, a fixed line? I don't know. We've got to see how that sorts out. Got to figure out how the linebackers are going to play, who's going to play where, especially inside. And also that secondary, because Malik Hooker missing the offseason work, the OTAs, while he was recovering.

He's supposed to be good for camp, but he's also supposed to be a starter, which means he's got a lot of ground to make up. And frankly, so does Quincy Wilson. So you're looking at two rookie starters projected in the secondary who are going to have to cover an awful lot of ground metaphorically and literally. Yeah, I agree. And you spoke about Hankins. His move around the defensive line thus far in the offseason is really interesting to me because that was the

plug right when they brought him in he was going to be the true zero tech that the Colts needed to really implement Pagano's 3-4 scheme and that that was supposed to be the the building block for the rest of the group but now that they've been moving him around you know primarily at a three tech from what I hear in the off season program, that just makes everything more interesting because, you know, they've had Al Woods starting there around the zero and, you know, what do they do with this? And then, and then not only that, but what does that mean for when it comes down to, to cut to the cut down, you know, that, that, that makes everything more interesting because they've ultimately got more pieces on the outside or, you know, maybe in the three tech as well.

But that just makes everything more interesting when it comes down to it that, you know, who's going to be that zero tech for him because Hankins was billed as that in the offseason. I think it's fairly safe to say that David Perry is very much on the bubble as a 16-game starter a year ago. We're going to, I think it's a really critical camp for Henry Anderson because he really flashed as a rookie, never really got off the ground last year coming back. He's at that point now as a year removed, more than

a year removed from the knee surgery, so he should be physically able to get back to where he is. For example, if Langford and Henry Anderson are both good to go, well, then you've got natural three and five right there to flank your nose. So then it becomes a matter of, in this hybrid 3-4, can you play your nose more as a three, play Anderson as sort of a three,

play Hankins as a three with different responsibilities, and then, of course, your rush linebacker is going to be, in effect, the fourth lineman in those four-down situations. But here's the thing, Matt. We're worrying about things that probably don't have far-reaching impact because they only play their base defense about a third of the time. Last year, for example, I think it was four games, they started two defensive linemen.

So the mixing and matching that goes on is really, really crazy to see nowadays. I agree. There's some of those guys that obviously are position players, but you see what they're going to offer outside of just on the defense with this group. Barkevius Mingo being one, I know they're kind of, if you want to say they're high on him, I guess that's whatever. But they definitely think that that guy can have some sort of a resurgence for his career.

And then you've got a guy like Nate Hairston who ultimately, I think, was brought in to plug into that nickel corner position. But those two guys are expected to have real special team impact. Do you see them actually getting anything towards a rotation just from this 30,000-foot view at this point? I would say more Mingo than Hairston. I didn't really get a good feel from Hairston on the field in the nickel defense a lot. They still feel good about the veteran holdovers they've got. Rashawn Melvin was really solid.

Not great, but he was a revelation filling in last year. They still got Darryl Moore, so they still have a couple veterans they can put in that spot if they need to. I think Harrison's got some people to beat out to get into the slot mix right now. But Mingo, man, you look at their linebackers, their linebacker group when they're sort of standing next to each other on the practice field. And just from the eye test, Mingo looks like a player. I mean, he's bigger. He's obviously fast and athletic. It just hasn't translated for him. And I honestly don't know why. I actually believe he got hurt. You know, he had the chest injury that put him back, and he was playing catch-up the rest of the time.

New England, you know, they just wanted him to be a special teamer, and so he was a special teamer, a really good one. If he's nothing more, Matt, than a really good special teams player, he's worth it. Yeah, I agree. But he also looks like a guy they can plop in there in that outside mix, you know, maybe for coverage, maybe for pass rush. That's the thing. There are so many moving parts in that linebacker group.

So that's a critical area to watch in camp. And he could be one of those that kind of stands out more because I think people aren't really assuming that he's going to do much in that role as far as actually as a linebacker. So for him, if he does get any kind of a rotation or whatever, and he does end up playing pretty well, that could really help him out. Not necessarily resurgence, but it could definitely keep him a spot on this roster for, you know, maybe another couple years. This competition mantra is just, to me, and I think a lot of outsiders, is really exciting because it really feels like Bauer believes it. It feels like the teammate, the roster, the team believes it. And it really, uh, could have some serious

implications for, uh, for, for training camp to get these guys. It could be really exciting. I mean, they've already said that this is the most competitive roster they've had, uh, with under Chuck Pagano. And I don't think that that's much of a stretch, nor do I think that's really a revelation for a whole lot. But is there a guy on this roster you think might be the Edwin Jackson of last year? You know, the kind of guys that we're sitting around watching going, that guy's going to get himself a roster spot and, you know, may not be noticed a lot nationally. Well, you know, I don't know if Chester Rogers would qualify as a surprise or not because he was on the roster last year and he had some moments, but he's really jumped out.

I mean, really jumped out in the offseason stuff. Clearly a lot more comfortable, a lot more confident. He's got good size, good hands. And he's really looking like it's going to be tough for him to make it, frankly, because, you know, depending on what Dorsett does, they've obviously brought in the free agents. They've got a couple of guys that are holdover starters with Hilton and Moncrief. It's going to be a tough group to crack, but he's looked really good. To me, it'll be interesting to see. Turbin was a guy that was used as a specialist a lot last year, not really used a lot in base offense. I think you might see a lot more of Turbin uh alternating in

a more true two-back situation um not two backs at a time but you know I'm saying a tag team situation at running back as Frank Gore uh gets along in age and you, you know, defensively, I don't – okay, here's a name for you. John Bostic, a veteran player, been around, but at that inside linebacker spot inheriting the job from DeQuell Jackson, my original thought was that maybe Anthony Walker, the fifth-round pick from Northwestern, could step right into that role. But Bostic is light years ahead of everybody right now and has really drawn raves. So if he could stay healthy, and here's another guy,

Sean Spence at the other inside linebacker spot, really athletic, can really run and cover. And these are guys that were a little bit of afterthoughts in other places, but have the right skill sets to plug right in for the Colts. With their past, having injuries and stuff like that, if these guys can stay healthy by all means, these are both really good football players. They weren't bad by any means. They just had injuries.

They weren't able to get past them necessarily. Last year, Sean Spence looked really good in Tennessee, I thought. I think that Bostic, you know, from what I've heard down there, that he's been able to acclimate into a coverage role as well, not just being the hitter, you know, that everybody perceives him to be. But, you know, this running back group really has me excited. You know, last year they used Turbin a little bit as a fullback as well with him and Gore. I think they primarily used it inside the five-yard line. But that's an interesting combination as well, and I agree with you. I think that Gore's touches might see a bit of a decrease.

Turbin may be the rotation guy in there with him. He needs a break on an 8-10 play drive or something like that. But a lot of this, the Josh Ferguson background from last year, and then you've got another guy like Dalton Crosson, who's gotten a lot of pub and a lot of talk this offseason already. Is there a front runner you think to maybe land that fourth running back spot if they decide to keep four, which I think they have for the most part over the past few years? Yeah, I mean,, obviously I think it's going to have to be the draft pick. They're going to have to give this kid a chance. Maybe he'll be a practice squad.

They may only keep three. They're going to have to keep extra players somewhere. They might have to keep a fourth tight end because, assuming Eric swoops your third guy, maybe even your second guy, you're going to need some solidity there. And that's where another name comes up, Darrell Daniels, who's an undrafted free agent from the University of Washington, a really athletic guy, didn't really play to his ability,

a little bit of an underachiever in college, but has come in here with a real chip on his shoulder to prove what he can do. And he's another one of those guys with every bit of the physical ability, size, speed, hands, all of it, you know, to be an NFL tight end. So three running backs, maybe four. I'll put it this way. Last year, part of the problem with the running back group is they spent so much time trying to make Josh Ferguson succeed.

Right. And he just wasn't going to, he just wasn't going to, he looked great in the off season work when there was no tackling and no pads and no hitting. But once it started being football, he was, he went nowhere and they,

they couldn't believe their eyes. And it was like, it took them so long to become convinced that he couldn't help them that it got, I mean, you had Todman, you had turbine, you had, solid veterans that were sitting there begging for these opportunities. And they kept throwing Ferguson out there, and it really kind of got in the way. Yeah, I agree.

I was a big supporter of Todman getting some more snaps. I mean, he wasn't a guy who was ever going to get more than five carries a game anyways. But he was definitely a guy I thought that deserved it over Ferguson. I mean, Ferguson, we know that he could not run between the tackles, even when he would get out on the edge out in the flats or whatever. He didn't do anything with himself in space. He didn't get anything after the catch hardly. And he was just a real disappointment.

I wasn't high on him when they brought him in. I think there was kind of a mixed group about, you know, we like him, we don't. But we know the Colts liked him, and that was something that, well, we, we know Gregson liked him. Right, right. Yep. This is true. This is true. So, uh, here's the point about the running game. I really thought last year because they brought in two veterans, they were actually going to divide the running game up a little bit more. They weren't going to ride Frank Gore like a mule as the primary back. And even though he got a thousand yards, you know, he had to carry 265 times. He averaged under four a carry and yes, he got his thousand fine. The running game was still terrible. It was still ineffective. And for this running game to actually become part of the

offense in terms of being a threat something that the defense has to regard right now the defense lines up and if you're going to give it to frank gore 20 times a game they're going to absolutely say fine because we know even if we're in completely the wrong defense and we miss five tackles he's not getting more than 12 yards right so he's just not going to hurt you. So they've really got to get other guys involved and to make this running game a true threat within the offense, not only for Andrew Luck's health, but for the success of the overall unit. I agree. They desperately need that now because with Doyle, I mean, just in thinking of how Chudzinski likes to run this offense a little

bit, you know, with Doyle being the number two, but kind of being the, you know, the better of the two tight ends last year between he and Dwayne Allen, yet he was still the number two and was able to, you know, fall into that H-back type of role a little bit more. You know, do they still use him like that if he's the number one, clearly the number one, which he is, you know, who else do they put into that H-back role? Is that a spot for Swoop, you know, maybe a little more? Or do they want to, you know, what do they want to do with him? So this will be interesting because when you have this running back group the way it is, a lot of that will dictate what you do with other positions as well, primarily, I think, the tight end role, because you want them playing off of each other. And

obviously, they're both going out into the flats or up the seam or whatever for a pass. So it'll be interesting to see kind of how those two situations roll out. I agree with you on that most definitely. Well, Swoop is such a gifted athlete that you could almost say that if you want to draw a comparison, you could say with Swoop and Doyle, they can do a little bit of what they did with Fleener and Allen. Right.

You have sort of the semi-wide receiver tight end who can be a matchup nightmare on the outside and downfield, and you have, you know, the banger. And the key to that for Jack is being a better in-line, on-the-line blocker. He was very good as sort of a lead fullback type in that H-back role, but he's going to have to be better straight up, helping out that right tackle. But if he can do that, and there's no reason that, that's the thing with Jack Doyle, whenever you say he needs to be able to do fill in the blank, whatever that is, he made himself do it. And that's why he's the guy they kept.

Yep. And to much of the appreciation of a lot of the fans, because I think that a lot of people were worried the way that contract situation started and thought he might get away from the team. They'd have been in a world of hurt if they did. And from, from what I'm seeing, Jack Muhort is another interesting guy. Now they have been, you know, allowing him to rest quite a bit this off season. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Allowing him to rest quite a bit this offseason. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Allowing him to rest. We know that he's had injuries, obviously, but they're not trying to pull him back all at once in pointless workouts in the summer is more or less what I'm getting at. And they've had some guys move in there like Schwenke and Vujinovic, apparently.

Is there another offensive lineman that you see maybe getting kind of a nod as a rotational guy outside of Vujinovic throughout this entire? We're trying to figure out who the rights is going to be. Who's going to be the swing guy that can play all over the place and really bail you out? For a moment, you thought it might be Haig, but I think they really want him to lock in at right guard. It's looking like it might be Denzel Good.

He's less a tackle than a guard from his experience, but he obviously is big enough to be a tackle. He just needs to be trained up. Bunevich is a guy that they've been playing extensively in the offseason. So he's obviously higher on the depth chart than a lot of people thought. Schwenke wasn't around in the OTA, so he's been dealing with some stuff. And obviously, Muhort, he's one of those guys we're going to have to see on the field in training camp because the projection was that he'd be

pretty much okay for the offseason program, but he wasn't. And he wasn't even around at all for minicamp. So a little bit of wait and see there for Jack. And the important thing to remember, because there's been a lot of talk about the offensive line, Matt, and when Ursa comes out and says the offensive line is six, which is just such an absurd thing for the owner to say, even if he really believed it, which he can't possibly actually believe that. You've got to remember, they might feel like they have the pieces in place

that will eventually become a good offensive line, but they aren't all in place yet. And the important thing to remember is their best offensive lineman, unless you think it's Ryan Kelly, but is Anthony Costanzo. And we have yet to see Anthony Costanzo be anything other than glaringly average. So the ceiling for that line isn't particularly high. I don't disagree with you, although I think that the Colts would be in a really struggling, bad situation without Costanzo.

I agree that he hasn't been elite by any means, but as far as the rest of this offensive line goes, if you're comparing him just to the people in-house, he has been. Like I said, he's their best offensive lineman. Ryan Kelly will be. He might become their best offensive lineman this year. But the guy that plays left tackle is basically your number one guy. He's the guy that gets paid. He's the key to it all. And I would say he's no better than middle of the pack regarding, you know, relative to other NFL left tackles. Yeah. And I don't disagree with that at all. This cornerback group, you know, we kind of touched on it a little bit earlier, but it really, I guess I'm just not as excited about only bringing in one guy that you potentially

think is a starter, another guy who you think is a year or two away, and then you've still got a lot of the same pieces there as far as starters. Now, I'm a big fan of Rashawn Melvin and how he came in and played last year. I think that he offers a lot for them in the beginning of the season this year. If Quincy Wilson can't go, I think Melvin is a guy who can definitely start opposite Vontae Davis. But the opposite of that is what is really, in my opinion, the issue is Vontae Davis. Now, I know he's looked well thus far in offseason, but he still has an injury or two or three, it seems like, every single year. If he doesn't stay healthy, this secondary is still in a lot of trouble.

Oh, no, there's no question. I mean, even if he does, there are question marks everywhere. But understand this about Vontae Davis this season. It's a contract year. Right. That's true. The little nicks and tweaks and aches and owies that might have caused him to sit out an extra series or even a game here and there, that ain't going to happen this year. Vontae knows he's got to have a big, he's got to have, really the last year and a half, he's not been very good.

He was, I would say, largely a disappointment last year. And he's going to have to really bounce back. He's a little bit like Costanzo. They need him to be an elite guy, and he was there for about a year, and one really strong year. But since then, he's really tailed off, some due to injuries and some to just slipping. And it's interesting, they want to mix up some zone. Monachino wants to mix in a little more zone with the press man,

and that's not obviously Vontae's thing. I mean, he wants, and Quincy Wilson's the same way. These guys both just want to line up on their guys, jam them with the line of scrimmage, try to play the physical game with them and cover them. When they have to think about what the routes are and which routes they're covering and which way they go when the receiver plants his left foot, that sort of thing, that's where they run into trouble. So assuming Vontae, let's just say he's in a contract year, he's a good player, he's going to be solid.

Well, you're still looking at two rookies. T.J. Green, I think, is on the verge of fading out of the picture completely. This could be his last chance if he can't play strong safety. And Darius Butler, you know, Darius Butler right now looks like the captain of the secondary. So, and he's playing essentially a new position. So no, nothing, nothing but question marks back there. Yeah. And you touched on a couple of things real quick that I wanted to touch on as well. You know, was Matthias Farley getting the work with the ones and twos? Do you think that was more of a message to TJ Green from the coaching

staff? Or do you think that's just, you know, he just played better plain and simple? He's a better, right now he's a better football player. He's not nearly the athlete. He doesn't have nearly the potential. TJ Green, ideally they would have liked him to be the free safety, but he can't. He just can't. I mean, and that's interesting because they talk about Malik Hooker like he's a 10-year veteran. He's played less free safety than T.J. Green had coming in here.

Right. But they feel like he's going to step in and start. And now they want T.J. Green to be a little bit more of what Clayton Gethers was going to be as a strong safety. And while T.J. Green will be a little bit more of what Clayton Gethers was going to be as a strong safety. And while T.J. Green will run, if you're straight ahead of him, he will run right at you and he will hit you hard. Elusive players, if he's got to chase somebody down, he's just not been good in open space. He's not been a good tackler. He misses tackles like crazy. He blows assignments like crazy. And this is a kid that, boy, this is a year they could desperately, desperately use him to step forward. We haven't

seen signs of it yet. Yeah, we really need his physicality because I think with the scariness of Clayton Gethers' injury, realistically, they're going to need another physical guy. And TJ Green, like you said, he is good when he can come up and actually make the play somewhere close to being in the box anything outside of that he is a very average tackler at best and that is not yeah he doesn't he doesn't he doesn't have the lateral movement in space he doesn't seem to have the instincts you know when he's out there on the island um and and even though he brought him brought with him a reputation of being a big hitter, which he is, there's a big difference between being a big hitter

and a good tackler. Yeah, oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this might open the door for Tybus Powell to legitimately see a lot of action this year, the new guy that they just brought in. Yeah, we're going to have to wait and see. I haven't seen much out of him yet.

But, yeah, you talk about the names sort of down the list, that's definitely one to keep an eye on. Absolutely. And, you know, kind of what you touched on there with the nickel spot or with the other safety there is Darius Butler. Depending on how Hooker ultimately looks in camp, I think, they have to see significant playing ability from him, I think, before they say, nope, you're our guy.

Butler, you know, let's say that Hooker does start there. Gethers is healthy. I mean, there's a lot of what-ifs here, but what does Butler do? I mean, Butler was a guy that they re-signed, hoping that he was a safety, okay? Then they draft Malik Hooker. At the time, they assumed that Gethers was going to be better, I think, and now we have, you know, Darius Butler, a guy that is a little too slow, even for the nickel position, I think, although he can be effective in spurts. But he really is a safety this year. Does this leave him sort of, you know, a positionless player at some point throughout the season? I think they're looking at him to sort of be the Mike Adams. Whereas Mike was more of a pure free safety with Gathers, they will talk about how they

like to interchange their safeties. They don't want to tip the defense based on their safety positioning, blah, blah, blah. But did anybody not know that Clayton Gathers was the strong safety and Mike Adams was the free safety last year? I mean, they're not fooling anybody with that. But Darius Butler is going to be sort of in that role, except not playing free safety. The question then becomes, okay, he's not really big. He's kind of a small guy to be a strong safety. And if Malik Hooker is your free safety, how do these parts all fit together? That's where T.J. Green comes in as a bigger, stronger, faster guy.

But they desperately need a veteran guy to organize the back four. And right now, Darius Butler is the best they've got at that. And you want to talk about scary, talk about putting Quincy Wilson, Malik Hooker, and TJ Green with Vontae as your back four and ask him to play zone. Oh, dear God. Yeah, that could be scary. Yeah. I mean, we may get surprised, but, you know, on the surface, that looks like something that they really don't want to do at this point for sure.

No. No, when you have young secondary players, you just want to say you cover him. Yes. And that's that. Very much so. Still here with Conrad Bruner from 1070 The Fan. Bruno, there's, you know, so much love for Chris Ballard right this year. Now, I haven't been able to ask you this, but what is your, from start to now,

what do you think about Ballard? Well, obviously, we don't know how all of the personnel moves are going to work out. We don't know how good a draft this is going to turn out to be. New guys always tend to get the benefit of the doubt, and so he's got that until he loses it for some reason. But what I'll say I've been most impressed by with him and it's not the moves per se it's it's how he how he approaches his job he doesn't try to be the smartest guy in the room he doesn't try to trick you or talk you know he he admits like he

walked in after the draft and so did you did you know malik cooker was falling your way oh hell no you know i didn't know that we didn't envision that in a million years. Whereas the last two guys in that chair would never admit that they didn't see that. The first thing out of their mouth was, well, Ford was exactly the way we saw it. You know, so there was this, you know, they felt like they had to be, and Bill Pullian was the smartest guy in the room, and Gregson just wanted people to believe he was. I think there's a genuineness to Bauer.

I think he understands who he is, where he came from, and there's very clearly, even though he is the authority, I think there's a real stronger sense within the personnel group of a team back there that there are collective decisions being made. It's not just one guy putting his foot down saying, this is my guy, and that's that. Right. Yeah, great points too.

One more question before I let you go. I really appreciate your time today. What about the position coaches like Philbin along the offensive line, Schottenheimer there with luck for a second year, especially through the rehabilitation of his injury. How important do you think a lot of these position coaches are going to be to the team this year? Well, Philbin's huge, and it's important. Last year, not only was he learning new players in a new situation, he was basically being a position coach for the first time in, I think, 10 years.

I don't think he'd been an offensive line coach for a very, very long time. So he had to really adapt himself to that job again. He seems comfortable back in it now he knows his guys uh he should be a real asset and i think the same is true of schottenheimer um you know we have to wait and see what happens with the quarterback position to me to me his role his time right now should not be spent with andrew luck it should be spent with the other guys you know because I think you really have to, you have to be backed up. You have to be ready with Tolzien or Morris, you know, if, if luck's

not ready to go. And, and I, right now, I think the priority until luck is out there, you, you've got to act like Scott, whoever your guy is, whether it's Tolzien, whether it's Morris and all indications are, it would be Tolzien. He's got to be treated like your guy. You've got to prep him like your guy. And if he doesn't take a snap all year and it's Lux healthy, great. That's your best case scenario, but you got to be prepared for anything. Absolutely. Uh, Bruno, thank you so much for your time today. Really, uh, enjoyed getting your, uh, insight on everything, you know, Colts related at to this point, you know, we're, we're in the thick of a real dark period here, but we're about a month or so a little bit more than a month from training

camp. And that's when it's obviously going to pick up and get significantly more interesting. So thank you for your time today, man. Thanks for having me man. Anytime. I appreciate it. Absolutely. You guys can catch his blog, Bruno's blog on 1070 the fan dot com guys make sure you're following conrad on uh twitter at 1070 bruno continue to put in those ratings and reviews on apple podcast those are always great had some great shows this week with some great guests really appreciate you guys chiming in uh with your call-ins make sure you

guys are keeping that up 574-516-2881. Those are great. Really enjoying doing that. Enjoying talking about them on the show. Make sure that you guys are following myself at mdanley underscore NFL on Twitter. Follow the show at LockedOnColts. You can email me at LockedOnColtsPod at gmail.com. And any other way that you guys want to get a hold of me, do that. Always interested to talk with you guys and love you guys for helping this show grow as much as it has. So thank you guys all for listening, and we'll talk to you soon right here on Locked on Colts.

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