Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - LOCKED ON COLTS SPECIAL - Gary Myers, Author of "Brady Vs. Manning" Interview

Episode Date: October 10, 2016

NY Daily News NFL Columnist & Author of "The Catch", "Coaching Confidential" #GaryMyers gives the inside story of his riveting and #NYTimes best selling book "#Brady Vs. #Manning - The Untold Story Of The Rivalry That Transformed The #NFL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, where are you going, Jim? The elevator's over here. Taking the stairs. But our meeting's up on 8. Yeah, I know. But that's 8 floors up. That's like 8 times... I don't... a lot of stairs. That's the point. I've already lost a few pounds and earned almost $100 in wellness incentives. Whoa, you're getting rewarded for working out? Yeah, I know. I'm just as surprised as you are, Bob.

Fearless is full of surprises. That's the power of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Federal Employee Program. Learn more about our healthy benefits and sign up at fepblue.org slash choose blue by December 11th. You are Locked On Colts, your daily podcast on the Indianapolis Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back to Locked On Colts, ladies and gentlemen. I am your host, Matt Dainley, and here is the interview with Gary Myers, and I really appreciate him coming on and giving me the opportunity to talk with him a little bit. And as I go through the show, and I've listened to a large part of what he and I talked about, you're probably not going to hear my voice quite as much. I really wanted to just allow him to talk and tell me his story for the most part from kind of from the jump.

Some of this, a good portion of it, you know, deals with a lot of Peyton Manning and such accordingly, of course. But, you know, there are going to be some talk about Tom Brady as well. I mean, the book Brady versus Man. Manning, is the story. And it was really good. He was fantastic. And again, I thank him for coming on with me. Just go to iTunes and give us a nice rating and a review.

If you're on Stitcher and you listen to us that way, then give us a thumbs up or however you can rate us on there or just anywhere where you listen to the podcast. Give us a solid rating. Hope you like the show. Check us out at LockedOnColts on Twitter. You can get me at mdanley underscore NFL on Twitter. And I'm going to leave it to Gary to tell us the rest of the story. Thank you guys for joining me once again, and I will talk to you soon. Well, I've been the NFL columnist at the New York Daily News since 1989. Before that, I covered the Cowboys in the NFL for the Dallas Morning News from 81 to, maybe 89 as I left there a couple of months after Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson arrived after their hospital tickled her the Cowboys in 89 I started working for HBO on inside the NFL I was their inside

information reporter at that point it was you know just a select few who were actually doing that now you know there's a million insiders all over the place but right then you know uh will mcdonough who really was the first one uh first newspaper uh guy to go to tv you know in this kind of a role and he he paved the way for the rest of us. And Chris Mortensen started around doing it around the same time I did. And so I did that for 13 years. And then I went to the YES Network, which is a regional network based in New York that primarily does the Yankee games.

But we did a football show there for 12 years called This Week in Football, which really focused on the Giants and Jets. And so that went for 12 years. And now I've been writing books. I still write my column for the Daily News. I do a lot of radio work here in New York for WFAN. And just having a good time covering the league. I've been covering the league since 1978.

What was it like going from print to an online for you? And that was years ago, so that was probably, I don't know, maybe a little different than it is now because I think people just get into the business in general, assuming that they're going to be online. You know, very few are actually in print anymore. Yeah, I mean, the Daily News is still, you know, a combination print and obviously we have our own website. I mean, I'm still considering myself a newspaper guy. And I've been trying to make the transition that when you have a column at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, that they're likely to file it right away and they post it in the middle

of the afternoon instead of having a 7.30 deadline for the next day's paper. So that's been a big change. I really haven't gotten into all the videos and podcasts and things of that nature that, you know, those opportunities are certainly available to me through the daily news. I really haven't done too much of that to this point. But, you know, certainly most people who are, you know, coming out of college now and getting involved in writing,

chances are if they do get hired by a newspaper, their primary responsibility will be, you know, posting stories to their website and whether the newspaper has become a secondary consideration. To me, you know, I'll always... I know, I grew up in this business of newspapers, so I'm partial to the actual printed word and having the newspaper in your hand when you read it, to read it rather than people looking at it on their phones, their tablets, their computers.

I actually enjoy reading the newspaper itself, but I'm a dwindling skew. Right. I actually, reading this paper itself, but I'm a dwindling few. Right. I actually, I write for, I just do high school football games for the local paper. But it is different. I mean, it's different seeing it in print versus online. It's kind of a, I don't know, maybe a more gratifying maybe. I mean, like somebody took the time to print it.

You know what I mean? I don't know how to necessarily explain that. Yeah, no, well, I mean, I think that the way it used to be, if I had a big story in the paper the next day, I couldn't wait for morning to get there so I can go out to my driveway or newspaper box, remember when those were around, to pick up the paper and to see how it was displayed in the paper the next day

and was it the back page or when I worked for the morning news, was it across the top of the front page of the sports section or maybe if it was a really big story, across the front page of the entire paper. And you take a great pride in seeing that, to see it actually in a newspaper. Now, like, if you have a big story, what do you do?

You show somebody your phone? You know, it's really different. It is. But the way the world is, how it's evolved, and maybe you change with the times, or you find something else to do, and, you know, I'm changing with the times. Let's kind of get into how you got access to, well, let me, let me ask you this first. What was kind of the impetus of your thought process in coming up with how you

were going to go about writing Brady versus Manning? Did it come to you immediately that, you know, you were just going to go through, get very personal with both of these guys and just about anybody who had a good amount of contact with them? Or was it something you just kind of wanted to write and it grew and grew and grew? Or how did that actually come about to you? about is that I was looking after writing my first two books I was looking for another one a topic that would really be intriguing and compelling and and I can get excited about because if you know people who write books will tell you that unless you're really into the subject don't

bother because it's such an overwhelming process and all-consuming that if you're not all in on it, it's impossible to do. So, you know, I thought some ideas and I rejected them because I didn't feel really committed to it. And I think I came up with this one. I was watching a documentary on bird magic, and it just hit me that, you know, Brady and Manning were the bird magic of the NFL. And it was the rivalry that really is what this era is going to be remembered for, is those two guys.

And now that Peyton has finished playing, they face each other 17 times in 15 years, or actually in 13 years, because Tom missed a season and Peyton missed a season. And they made it to the five times in the playoffs. So, you know, that's really very unique. And although they've never run the field at the same time, you always heard, okay, when's the Brady Manning game coming up this season? You know, everybody always looked at the schedule when it came out in August to kind of circle, and invariably it seemed to be on the Sunday night game after the World Series is over,

which kind of kicks off the second half of the NFL season. It was, okay, Brady and Manning. It was a feature game to get the second half of the season started. So I just started thinking about it, and I went to my editor and asked him what he thought, and he loved the idea. And I actually signed the contract to write the book before either Tom or Peyton had committed to cooperating with me. And they felt, you know, the story was so good that I'd be able to do it without their help or cooperation. And, you know, fortunately, I mean, I had my doubts about that, but they have a lot

of confidence that I'd be able to do it. You know, fortunately, both of them cooperated, Tom a little bit more than Peyton, but I got, you know, fresh material from both of them. And then just, it just evolved from there, you know, and in some stories they told me, it led me to other people to talk to, or just a list that I was able to compile before I thought would have an important voice in the book. And before you know it, I had 82,000 words. And it came out last September. And on September 20th this year, we came out with paperback, which is completely updated and revised, including an additional chapter at the end, which incorporates everything that happened starting around September 1st or so last year, right through Peyton's retirement and then Brady having suspension reinstated.

So the paperback is really the definitive document, so to speak, on this Brady-Manning rivalry because it is now over, and my book includes everything that happened during it. Now, that was, I'm glad you hit on that. That was one of the questions I was going to ask. Was there one or the other who was more cooperative or really jumped on the train for the book right away, as opposed to the other one? I kind of would have assumed that Manning was a little more reserved about it. I think that's kind of his makeup, I think, a little bit more than probably Brady.

Although, I would say both of these guys stay out of non-football headlines for the most part almost their entire careers up until lately, Manning was really, at least in his professional career, was really out of almost everything when it came to the HGH and the issue at Tennessee University from when he was in college and all that stuff. Other than that, these two guys were model NFL players, and that's interesting to me. You interviewed so many people on these two, who was, I mean, from Dallas Clark and Tony Dungy, Bill, Bill Pulley and Scott Pioli.

I mean, there's a host of people on here. Who was the most interesting that had probably, and now for either one Manning or Brady, who had the most information that maybe surprised you or just kind of took you by surprise or off guard? Well, I think like Scott Fioli, you mentioned, he's Belichick's right-hand man. And, you know, Belichick is kind of like the man behind the curtain. We don't really know who goes on. And he's so mysterious. But Pioli, who at that point no longer worked for the Patriots, was very forthcoming with me about things that happened in New England

during the period that he and Belichick and Brady were there and really filled in so many blanks for me about behind-the-scenes stuff that happened during the draft and in Brady's first couple of years that he really proved to be invaluable. Tom's father was terrific in informing me of a lot of things that happened, you know, Tom's high school days and then things that happened at Michigan. You know, on the other side, I really enjoyed talking to Dallas Clark. I thought he was very insightful in a lot of the stories he told me, also very entertaining. And, you know, Tony Dunkey is always great to talk to. And, you know, I've known Tony really well for 20 years now, and he was very helpful.

And then Jimmy Irsay was terrific and just really outlined. He's certainly always interesting, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, he was good in telling me the angst that he went through in the final day of the payment when he knew that the salary cap would make it impossible for him to hold on to him and also to draft Andrew Luck. And he knew that he had to draft Luck at that point. I mean, it was a given.

But still, you know, being known as the man who cut Payton Manning was not easy for him to live with. And so he really agonized over that and kind of gave me a play-by-play of the last couple days of Peyton as a cult, which to me is one of the best chapters in the book. I mean, we can go on and on. There's lots of, I don't mean to sound, you know, immodest here, but there's lots of great stuff in the book that I didn't know going into it. So I would have to assume if I didn't know it and I lived this stuff every day, that the average reader, it'll be news to them as well. And hopefully I presented it in a way that keeps everybody's interest. And in fact, it became a Times bestseller, which was great.

And fortunately, my editor and my publishing company wanted to do a paperback on this, which gave me an opportunity to really update it and, um, like put a final bow on this by including everything that happened, you know, right up until, you know, like I mentioned before, Kate and Tom and Tom having to set out the first four games of this season. Now, did you get anything from, like you said that when you spoke with Irsay, that he, you know, went through a lot of angst with all that situation when Peyton was released. Did you get anything from Manning about that time in his life, about what he was going through or anything like that? Today's show is sponsored by Talkspace, the online therapy company.

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Well, I mean, to be honest with you, Peyton didn't give me nearly as much time as Brady did. So I concentrated with Peyton really on his interactions with Brady, because at that point I had the Brady side of it, and I felt those were the most important things that I wanted to speak to Peyton about. So I had known enough and read enough and spoken to enough people about what happened in his final days in Indianapolis that for the amount of time he was giving me,

I really concentrated on stuff that I didn't know the answers to. And then, you know, I was able to piece, you know, those stuff together through other interviews. Gotcha. What, explain to me a little bit, if you could, about one of these areas that is in the new paperback version about Manning's final season, which was in Denver, and getting his job back after losing, you know, being out with injury, Osweiler coming in and playing seven games,

and then Manning coming back in and, you know, obviously winning the Super Bowl in his final kind of curtain call there. Is there anything that you can give me about that time and kind of lay it out as to how that worked maybe and what were the thought process of everybody involved, to your knowledge? It brought us to our lineup starting seven games, including the final game of the regular season. And it would have been very, very interesting to see what would have happened if he played well in that final game.

Now, as it turned out, Denver needed to win the game to secure home field advantage straight through the playoffs. And into the third quarter of that game, I can't remember if they were losing. It was a very close game. And Osweiler had not played well. Peyton was now dressed for the game for the first time in two months after hurting his foot. And I don't think he anticipated going into that game that he was going to get an opportunity to get back on the field.

And if Osweiler had played really well in that game and Denver won without a struggle and had home field advantage, it's very possible that Gary Kubiak would have stayed with Osweiler as the starter, and that Manning very possibly could have ended his season on the bench, which would have been an amazing story in itself. But as it worked out, Osweiler was struggling, and Kubiak made the switch, and the team automatically

got some energy from Peyton being in the huddle. He didn't play particularly well, but what he was so good at was getting the team into the right plays at the line of scrimmage, and the running game picked up when he was in there, and

he wound up with a week off before they played in a divisional round game. He'd have to get some more rest. He certainly didn't play great in the playoffs. He made a couple of nice throws against Pittsburgh to help win the game. Then in the championship game against the Patriots, he threw too early touchdown passes that put New England in a position of having to come from behind almost the entire game. And he did relatively nothing in the Super Bowl.

He played one of the worst games ever for a quarterback who won the Super Bowl. But the defense was so strong in the running game that enough that they were able to win this game. And in a couple of years, we'll forget that Peyton was really physically compromised in that game and that he really didn't contribute to the victory. And all we'll remember is that in his final game of his career, he won a Super Bowl. And we got back to John El, last time that happened. So it was really a very fascinating final season for Peyton, and it ended like every quarterback dreams it ends,

and that's, you know, walking out with a ring. For sure. One of the snippets here that has me, I think, most fascinated about this that I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that a lot of people know about is the part in here where Manning was on the verge of declaring for the draft in 97 and the Jets had the first pick. And there's a bit in here about Archie calling Bill Parcells asking whether he was going to draft a Peyton or not and kind of that Peyton was weighing whether to come out a year earlier than he did that's

fascinating to me not only that but I don't think that a lot of people realize that and on the other hand it I think the thing that surprises me the most is that I don't, I wouldn't just in common thought think that Manning would want to play for a coach like Bill Parcells. What can you add to that about that situation? Well, Parcells had just gotten to the Jets and inherited the first pick in the draft, and the team was so poor. It was coming off a 1-15 season he looked at the first pick as an opportunity to pretty much turn into a cottage industry and just you know pick up a lot of picks by trading it um Archie called Parcells to ask him what his intentions were because Peyton was in the process of deciding whether to return for senior year at Tennessee. During the season, he had pretty much made up his mind to come out.

But then once the season ended and he started working out with his teammates, he started getting the itch to stay at Tennessee. He really enjoyed college. He was graduating after three years and would be able to take some classes this last year that he would take because he really enjoyed it. He loved being a college student he loved the atmosphere but at the same time if the Jets had promised him that he'd be the first pick and he'd get to play in New York for a future Hall of Fame coach it might have changed his mind Parcells told Archie in more than one phone conversation that he wasn't ready to commit and I think that Peyton had to make his decision by sometime in March that

year with the draft in April. And, you know, he wasn't sure he, he felt his defense was so poor that he might just want to load up on defense and hadn't come to a decision yet. Now I've, I've heard that Parcells was not sold on Peyton, which does make sense because I think if he was, that he would have encouraged him to come out. Although Bill, to this day, still says, you know, the NFL rules prohibit you from encouraging underclassmen to declare for the draft. But we all know there's ways around those rules.

And now, as far as to your point about whether Peyton would have wanted to play for Parcells, I think that they are the same person when it comes to football. And they would have been incredible together. And as a matter of fact, they actually became very good friends during the course of Peyton's career. To the point when Peyton was deciding what to do after the Colts caught him and he was working out, he was in constant communication with Parcells, asking for advice. And Parcells would quiz him, okay, you know, where are you with your arm strength? When you try to throw the 20-yard out, you know, can you get it there? And, you know, tell me this and tell me that.

And so Peyton really leaned on Parcells as a mentor. You know, not as his only one. You know, he was talking to Phil Sims and other people who he considered to be in his inner circle to get some advice. But he had grown so close to Parcells at that point that I think he really valued what he had to say.

so I think if they ever wound up on the same team, if Bill had drafted him, they would have been tremendous together. And I think they certainly would have won some Super Bowls together. And maybe that's just me with, you know, Peyton's past has a good percentage of his known career, so to speak, in Indy. He was coached by Dungy, who's kind of nothing like Parcells as far as personality-wise, I suppose. And then the coaches that he's played for by then. So maybe that just is what stuck in my head.

Now I'm curious, was Manning more impressed to, was he more wanting to, was he more willing, wanting to play for Parcells or was he more wanting to play in New York? Was New York a real, a real pull for him? I think that it was intriguing. I mean, everybody wonders what it's like to play in the biggest market.

Now the NFL is so popular these days that it really doesn't matter where you play. If you're really good, you're going to get a lot of opportunities to make money off the field, as Peyton has certainly proven over the course of his career. But I certainly think the combination of playing in New York and playing for Parcells was appealing. And, you know, Archie's told me that, you know, Peyton's feelings about Parcells, you know, were just positive. It had nothing to do with him wanting to return for his senior year at Tennessee, meaning that he didn't go back to school because he didn't want to play for Parcells,

that it was just the opposite, that he really would have enjoyed playing for him. It was just that, you know, Bill would not commit to picking him, and Peyton wanted to be in control of his destiny as much as he possibly could. And he didn't want to declare for the draft, and then either the Jets don't pick him and he goes someplace else, or the Jets trade the pick to a place that he wouldn't necessarily want to go and so he just decided to go back to school and then just wait and see what happened and who went up with the first pick the following year and it turned out he was a great match in indianapolis it was a small town and and you know he's from new orleans and spent four years in in knville. And it was, Indianapolis, it was a perfect city for Peyton. And, you know, his impact on that city and where football is today,

where the NFL is today in Indianapolis, to a large degree, you know, Peyton is very instrumental in getting that new stadium built and getting a Super Bowl in that stadium. That if they weren't as successful during the year successful during the Peyton years as they were, that who knows what would have happened if that stadium ever would have gotten built. And then who knows what would have happened to the future of the Colts franchise because they had outgrown, what was it called, the Hoosier Dome then or the RCA Dome? Yeah, it was both of them actually.

Hoosier Dome, then they changed it to the RCA Dome. Yeah, so Peyton's impact on the Colts and the city of Indianapolis was tremendous. Now, that wouldn't have happened in New York because it's just a different market and a different way of life here, but I think he would have done fine here. He might have read the papers a little too much and become a little too sensitive after bad games because certainly the market here is much different than it is in Indianapolis. But I think they would have been done fine.

And, you know, Eli certainly has had an up and down career. Now they're much different personality wise, but Eli's loved being in New York. And I think that Peyton would have also. And that was where I was going to go next. I was wondering if that maybe was something that was kind of a family idea and if that had any effect on Eli not necessarily not wanting to play for San Diego,

but possibly that he did want to play for the Giants, that that was really where he wanted to go. So I was curious if maybe that was kind of something that they shared, Peyton and Eli, about wanting to play in New York maybe or something like that. Well, I think it had more to do with not having faith in the Chargers organization. And I do think that he wanted to play in New York, and Archie really held Tom Coughlin in very high regard. So they looked at the Giants as a much better spot for Eli to play his career than San Diego, a team that always had contract problems.

In fact, Phillip Rivers, who wound up going to San Diego instead of Eli, wound up holding out until very late in training camp his rookie year, and then Drew Brees wound up starting that year, and Rivers sat for two years and only got back on the field because Rivers hurt her shoulder in her free agent year and wound up going to New Orleans. Otherwise, we don't know what would have happened to Rivers if he ever would have got on the field in San Diego,

and it was because of a contract holdout. That was the kind of thing that Eli wanted to stay away from because the Chargers had a reputation of bitter, nasty, long holdouts with their players. We've seen that lately with Joey Bosa, even

to this day. I think it probably had as much to do with him not wanting to claim San Diego as it did with him wanting to claim New York. So Brady goes to Michigan and he red charts his freshman year and then he sits on the bench for two years and he nearly transfers back home to Cal in 1997, which was his third year in the program. Brian Greasy was the starter, and Michigan won the national championship.

So Brady winds up starting his last two years and goes 20-5, but for the entire two years, he's looking over his shoulder at Drew Henson, who was a local three-sport high school star from up the road from Ann Arbor. He already signed a contract with the Yankees. Lloyd Carr, who was the Michigan coach at the time, was just trying to get him on the field to keep him interested in staying in Michigan to play football. He didn't want to lose him to the Yankees too soon.

It was really at Brady's expense. When I went to Michigan to speak to Lloyd Carr, I just posed the question to him, how does a guy who might go down as the greatest quarterback in NFL history take it on the field for three years in your program? And then the last two years, although he's 25, you kept taking him out of games to put Drew Henson in. And he walked me through Brady's five years at Michigan, and he had a logical explanation

and sound reasoning along the way, although with the benefit of hindsight now, it doesn't seem to make any sense how Tom had such a hard time getting on the field. But the bottom line to this, coaches in every sport are really selfish, and they're going to play the guy who they think gives them the best chance to win. And if Tom Brady was Tom Brady back then, like he is now, he would have been playing,

but clearly he wasn't anywhere near the player at Michigan in the first three years that he was when he got the chance to play his last two years, and certainly how he's been in the NFL in the 15 years that he's been a starter. Sure. Peyton and Tom, now their rivalry was pretty much second to none. When do you think, not only do you you when do you think that their rivalry actually started like when like you know which game you know kind of signified that rivalry and uh kind

of a secondary question to that where when do you think they became uh close uh in their careers? Close friends, you mean? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it just developed over the years as Tom started to have some success and then was winning, you know, he won a Super Bowl in his first year as a starter and then won again in his third and fourth year. And Peyton was having tremendous success

during the course of the regular season, but not any real success in the playoffs. But these two guys had clearly established themselves as the two best quarterbacks in the league. And they would run into each other at golf tournaments and things of that nature. And I think they were able to bond over the you know fact that um they looked at each other as you know maybe nobody else really can really relate to what I'm going through other than this guy you know based on their success and their popularity so that really

drew them together and um it was something that just built continue to build over the years as far as when their rivalry started, you know, they met in the playoffs for a couple of years. Brady won both those games. Probably the best game of the Brady-Manning rivalry and the one that really, I think, signified that this thing, it was like game on, was the 06 AFC Championship game when New England had a 21-3 lead late in the second quarter, and Indianapolis came back to win the game.

It was the biggest comeback in championship game history, and it really validated Manning because he had finally got to a Super Bowl, and to do it, beat Brady along the way. And that was probably not probably, but that without question was the most important game of Peyton Manning's career. Yeah, I totally agree. It was, that's, I'll tell you what, that's such a hard game to forget too. Cause that was, like you said,

that was such a huge moment in Manning's career, but Colts fans have been begging to see that for years you know uh to actually get over that that hump of uh of beating the uh yeah and it's amazing and you know peyton came into the nfl with a reputation at tennessee of not being able to win a big game he He had never beaten Florida. Then it took him a long time to even win his first playoff game. By 2006, he was in his ninth year in the league. Brady had already

won three Super Bowls and Peyton hadn't even been to one. That game was just very, very important for Peyton's legacy and also just proving to people that he could get his team to the Super Bowl. Now, I think the game against the Bears two weeks later was almost a letdown for the Colts.

Their Super Bowl was beating the Patriots in that championship game. Without question. And they were fortunate in that they were facing the Bears with Rex Grossman. If they were facing a better team with a better quarterback, I'm not sure they would have won that game simply because they – I won't say they were just satisfied to beat the Patriots in the championship game, but it might have been really hard for them to reach that emotional pitch that they did against the Patriots, you know, against a team better than the Bears in the Super Bowl.

So I think they would have had a letdown regardless, and it was just fortunate for them that they were playing the Bears. Yeah, that game, I'll tell you what, that Super Bowl really started out crazy too with Devin Hester running back the opening kickoff. That was unbelievable. And, of course, their defense was unreal, so that was a real threat because they had stymied a lot of quarterbacks throughout the season that year. It was definitely, now whether they, their hip pocket had, you know,

well, we've already beat the best team in the league already, you know, had already had that in the back of their mind when they went to meet the Bears in Miami or not. But I tell you what, fans were worried about Chicago's defense. I can tell you that for sure. That wasn't Peyton's best team in Indy, if I remember correctly. I think the 0-4 team probably was. Right.

Yeah, that was a special team, too. There was a lot of really good teams. If I'm not mistaken, not only did it take Peyton a while to win a playoff game, it actually took a while for him to play well in a playoff game. Uh, and he had some disastrous playoff games, but, uh, he also had some just very low key games and such. And there, you know, there was so many, uh, there were so many things that were different about Peyton and Manning. As far as, you know, I think people kind of see, have seen, always seen Peyton as the nerdier guy, the more mechanical kind of,

kind of fella and Brady, obviously the, you know, the, the cooler, more relaxed kind of relaxed guy. But the two of them couldn't really be more different in terms of how they're seen, I don't think, as far as like a cool factor, I guess, if you want to say that. However, they couldn't be more similar in terms of being like, you know, one of my friends describes it as just utter psychopaths when it comes to running their teams and probably more specifically their offense and running like a well-oiled machine. Did you get that same vibe, I guess, from the two of them, that they were so different on a human personal level, but once they had their helmet and their shoulder pads on and stepped in between those lines, that they were almost the same person?

Well, yeah, I think the way they operated with their teams, and Brady still does, very prepared, almost obsessive in wanting to know everything about the other team, very hard on their teammates in practice, no patience for mistakes because if the mistakes were made in practice, they were always concerned it was going to be made during the course of a game. So I think in that way, they're similar. Now, their roles are different because Brady plays for a future Hall of Fame coach

and really just kind of implements the game plan that's given to him, where I think Peyton ran the offense in Indianapolis and then to a certain extent in Denver. So I think they were counted on for different things. As far as their personal, how they are away from the field, you know, Peyton has the reputation of being this, you know,

fun loving guy who's on every commercial and, and very approachable. And, and Brady has the reputation of being an extension of the evil empire of New England with, with Belichick and not very approachable, but I find him to be the complete opposite, that Peyton has become very corporate and very protective,

whereas I found Brady very approachable and very forthcoming in his answers, told great stories and much different than what people would expect. And I found the perception of these two guys to be almost the complete opposite of the reality. I don't think that that surprises me, to be quite honest with you. I think a lot of people see Peyton's commercials and the funny guy routine, which I'm not saying that necessarily he wouldn't be with his buddies in the locker room or his brothers or just whatever,

but I would not get the sense that Peyton would probably be maybe the, I definitely wouldn't say he would be the easiest guy to approach. I would definitely assume that Tom Brady, especially for Patriots fans anyhow, would be an easier guy to approach. Now, not only were Peyton and Tom becoming friends throughout their careers and such, but you also mentioned that Archie and Tom Brady Sr. established some sort of a relationship.

Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, they started texting probably like five, six, seven years ago every Monday morning in which they asked the other, you know, how'd your son do? How's he feeling? Everything come out okay? He come out okay physically after the game the day before. So this carried on for years.

And after the Broncos were embarrassed in the Super Bowl by the Seahawks, Tom Senior texted Archie and just said, hey, I'm proud of your son. He got him to the Super Bowl. It wasn't his fault. Nothing to be ashamed of. And then the following year when the Patriots beat the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, Archie texted Tom Senior's congratulations on the victory and told him he was proud of Tom. But the funny thing was that until a couple of days before this most recent Super Bowl in San Francisco,

the two of them had never met. But they felt like they knew each other just by their texting. And so Tom Sr., you know, they live in the Bay Area. That's where they're from. And Archie was out there for the Super Bowl to watch Peyton play, obviously. And they just ran into each other at a restaurant one night, a couple nights before the game. And they were talking to each other at a restaurant one night, a couple nights before the game, and were talking to each other like they had just seen each other the day before.

That's how well they had gotten to know each other, which it's a really neat story. It's a pretty cool back story to this whole relationship. That is pretty cool, especially that they hadn't met for all those years, yet felt comfortable enough simply through through text and such I'm sure that they had a good time and and hung out for probably quite a while pending that their their time allowed them to now I know you're a busy guy and I know you've got things going and I really appreciate your time I don't know I'll kind of end with this as Manning's career began to uh kind of dwindle down he was hit with uh you know several things all kind of all at once uh poor play uh not having the arm strength the hgh

controversy from that was reported by al jazeera um the things that come up after the Super Bowl with, I believe it was 1996 when he was in Tennessee with the trainer, and just so many things that kind of really would allow someone to think this could end with some real dimples on his legacy. What kind of insight do you have into maybe who Peyton was previous to this stuff coming out? A little more whirlwind-ish, so to speak, because it had come out previous, at least the Tennessee incident, but was very much kind of silenced a bit. Who, kind of how he was previous to that versus how he was after he found out, and maybe, you know, both of those incidents, the HGH and the Tennessee incident. I think that, you know,

all, a lot of stuff was coming down, down on him towards the end of the regular season. He hadn't yet got back on the field when Al Jazeera, America, showed that documentary. And, you know,

Peyton was, you know, vehement in his denial and, you know, Peyton was, you know, vehement in his denial and, you know, took months in the NFL, investigated and cleared him of any wrongdoing, you know, as far as they were concerned. During that period of time, I just think that Peyton was extremely protective of his wife, you know, who was drawn into this by that documentary. Sure. And very resentful of people, you know, looking into her health records and then accusing him of doing HGH. I mean, the veins were popping out of his neck and his denial.

And then, you know, on top of that, he was very frustrated because he was trying to get back on the field and wasn't having much success rehabbing. And then you fast forward to the end of January, early part of February, where he beats the Patriots in a championship game and then beats Carolina in the Super Bowl, even though he was compromised physically and he was more of a game manager.

At that point, the HGH story had died down, but then in the days after the Super Bowl, the old stuff about what happened in Tennessee 20 years ago, for whatever reason, made news again. So there was a lot of highs and lows for him there, and everything at this point seems to have quieted down. In time, we'll forget in the Super Bowl, he really didn't play very well and wasn't the same player he was for almost his entire career.

What people will remember is that he went out winning a Super Bowl in his final game. In a four-paragraph statement a month or so ago, the NFL cleared him of any wrongdoing or said there was no evidence in the HGH story. And the Tennessee story has really kind of died down. And Payne's just going about his business now, taking the season off, trying to decide what he wants to do long term. So, you know, as far as his legacy is concerned, I think the fact that those two incidents have pretty much gone away at this point, I don't really think it'll wind up impacting how people feel about his career or who he is. Yeah, and I agree. And something that we were touching on before we kind of cut off the last conversation there

was his impact on Indianapolis. Peyton has a hospital named after him. He's always been beloved here in Indianapolis, not just because of football, but naturally because of football, as you mentioned, the Lucas Oil Stadium, very good chance that's not built if Manning isn't an Indianapolis Colt, especially for as long as he was an Indianapolis Colt. There are so many things that he had a hand in around here that you would have to really pretty much convince several million people that he might just be the worst person on the planet

to even put a dent in his local legacy. I could definitely say that. And I'm sure that this is similar for Brady. There's very few people that have affected, I think, any national professional sports city the way that Peyton Manning has affected Indianapolis. And I think a lot of it, as you said, has to do with size and kind of immediate reach. Like you said, if he was drafted into New York, he's probably nowhere near as influential, maybe, at least not immediately for sure. But he was beloved around here and still is. It's a fascinating story. I can't wait to dive a little further into your book and kind of see, especially,

you know, I'll probably go grab the paperback edition and check that out as well. I really appreciate your time, Gary. No problem. Thanks a lot. I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I did getting a chance to talk with him. That was really interesting stuff. Kind of interesting to hear that Manning wasn't quite as forthcoming with some of the info,

that it was a little more on Brady's end. But I hope you guys enjoyed the interview all in all. You know, like I said, I really enjoyed getting the opportunity to interview Gary. He was more than courteous with his time. And I hope you guys enjoyed it. And I will talk to you guys soon on Locked on Colts. You are Locked on

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