Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Ultimate Division Crossover Special, Part IV

Episode Date: July 18, 2020

On today's episode, the hosts all around the AFC South finish off the week-long crossover special analyzing the Jacksonville Jaguars. Expected to be in the basement of the AFC South, what's the goals for them in 2020?Will Jacksonville actually be competitive or be in Trevor Lawrence territory?What is the actual young talent on the Jags' roster, and will they be a pushover or not to everyone else in the division?All of this, plus so much more, as coverage ramps up with training camp beginning so soon! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And we are back for the final installment of our Ultimate Division crossover series here with the host of the Locked On podcast from the AFC South. I am the host of the Locked On Titans podcast. Tyler Rowland here with the host of the Locked On Colts podcast. Evan Sidery, host of the Locked On Texans podcast. John Hickman. And then, of course, the host of the Locked on Jaguars podcast, Tony Wiggins. We are going to get into some questions here in just a second.

First, I want to thank all of the listeners from all of the different shows here from the AFC South podcast for enjoying this week of the Ultimate Division Crossover Series with us. We always enjoy doing this together. I want to thank the hosts that are here with me, Evan, John, and Tony, for joining me on this journey. It's always fun to get all of the guys together and have a good conversation about all of our teams.

If you do want to find all of us on social media, of course, subscribe to all of the podcasts, your favorite team's podcasts, of course. You can find me on Twitter though, at TicTacTitans. Evan, where can the people find you? At LockedOnCulti. I've not already followed over there. Awesome, awesome. John, where can people find you and Cody for the

LockedOnTexans? At LockedOnTexans on Twitter. Awesome. And Tony, I am going to kick things off with a question to you. You tell us where they can find you on Twitter to open it off. But for my question, right now, do you think that the Jags are going to try to maybe tank in some way to get a top pick?

Or do you think that they're going to try to put the pieces they've put together in a position to win and maybe try to surprise some folks? All right. So you can find me at LockedOnJaguars. I'll answer that question in just a second, but I'll say this because, you know, our fans can be really honoring and petty. So I'm going to say thank you to the host and thank you to all the fans for listening all week except for Titan fans.

They don't care whether you listen or not. How about that? Oh, no. We couldn't make it all week without a little heat, i know i can count on you tony there you go yeah but in terms of tanking this is one of the things i've said for a long time i don't know how you do that and what i mean by that is if you're doug marone if you're dave caldwell you've had all of his heat. How can you tank? If you're Gardner Minshew, who has the keys to the car, you're going to tank for them to take Trevor Lawrence? What about if you're just a player like Leonard Fournette

or whoever that's in the last year of his contract? How do you go put out bad take to justify you getting a contract or getting a shot for another team? So there's just too many elements and too many different variables to tanking and then we just we forget about this part of it too these guys didn't make it to the NFL without being totally competitive and and almost narcissistic in a way at some point every one of these players was the best player in high school and one of the two or three best players on their college team you don't get to that level of being an alpha by not giving it everything that you have.

So I don't know how the dynamics of tanking works. I do know maybe you can do it in boxing. You can't do it in the NFL. It takes too many people to do it. I think overall with this team and heading into 2020, Tony, I wanted to hit on Gardner Minshew because I think he's one of the more interesting young quarterbacks and of course at the Jaguars you finish with the top three pick maybe this is his last year starting but he did very well for himself last year after Nick Foles went down week one and he's a very accurate quarterback especially on deep balls do you think there's a possibility that Minshew could be the future there in Jacksonville I think he's kind of the bridge to

maybe like we talked about in the further episode earlier this week, maybe Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields. I think there is a possibility because if you're Gardner Minshew, you're playing with house money. Two years ago, you were at like Coastal Carolina or somewhere, and then you were headed to Alabama to be the GA with Nick Saban. Then you get a call from Mike Leach to come out and compete, and then a guy gets hurt, and you ended up doing what you're doing. Now you're a six-round pick.

I'll put it to you this way, Evan. If he was a second-round pick and he'd thrown for 21 touchdowns and six picks and had a 6-6 record as a starter on this team with all of the Jalen Ramsey stuff, all of the trades, all of the, you know, they had some injuries

in some key spots. I mean, nobody's talking. He won, all of the trades, all of the, you know, they had some injuries in some key spots. I mean, nobody's talking. He won rookie of the week seven times, okay, and didn't even get consideration for rookie of the year. And nobody else won. Nobody else came even close to that. At some point, we're going to have to get past the fact that this dude was a six-round pick.

At some point, people are going to have to get past the fact that he's pop culture, sort of like icon, if you will, especially around here with the to have to get past the fact that he's pop culture uh sort of like icon if you will especially around here with the way that he looks and the way that he talks and we have to look at the nuts and bolts of who he is as a football player and the things that i mentioned about his record and how he performed you can accidentally show up you can jeremy lynn for one week you can't do it in the nfl for 12 weeks at 21 and 6 in terms of touchdown interceptions it just doesn't happen at some point we have to realize that this kid deserves and has earned a legitimate shot to be the starting quarterback for this football team

you know Evan kind of stole my question there but I'm looking at Gardner Minshew and the entire uh second year players how do you feel about the progression so far of the second-year players? We just mentioned Gardner Minshew, Josh Allen, for one, and I love Josh Allen, by the way, and Jawan Taylor, how do you feel about this progression of those second-year players? Well, I feel good about them, and I'll tell you what, it's almost as if it's a shame because they're not going to have the opportunity to be second-year players. Gardner Mitchell is the quarterback, is the leader of this offense.

And by that, the very nature of that, he's the leader of this football team. Josh Allen, now that Calais Campbell is gone, along with the newly acquired middle linebacker Joe Sjobert, Josh Allen is the leader of this defense because Yannick Ngakwe is holding out and might not be here. And even if he comes in, the nature of his relationship with the team might not lend him to be a leader in the locker room. And Josh Allen played 60% of the snaps and had 10.5 sacks last year. And, you know, that's something else the staff has to figure out. That can't happen. If he's that good, he needs to be out on the field.

He needs to be just like Nick Bosa was in San Francisco. He needs to be on the field more. And Jawan Taylor, you're right right is their best offensive lineman so uh it's a good thing that they hit on those draft picks that might have been the saving grace for Dave Caldwell as well last year but it's a it's almost a bad thing if you know if people are expecting too much of them and they're not allowed to be second-round picks, it's almost like a kid that's 15 years old and his parents go through a divorce, and now you've got to step up

and you've got to be more than just a 15-year-old kid. You actually have to get a part-time job to make sure you keep food on the table. While that's an admirable thing to do, it's not ideal in terms of the development of the football player. I have a question for you about Yannick Ngakwe. So we've obviously seen his story kind of carry out throughout the offseason.

My question is, when you have somebody like a Caleb on chase on who's a rookie, and then you have a Yannick Ngakwe who doesn't appear to want to be a part of the future. I mean, maybe he'll play this year on the franchise tag, maybe. But even then, he probably won't be on the team next year. How do you balance wanting to get reps for someone like Kaylevon Chason in the pass rush, and then having someone like Yannick Ngakwe, who's probably the better player, of course, at this moment in time?

How do you balance having those two guys out on the field and making sure that you're developing somebody who you want to be a piece of your future versus a better player who you know won't be a part of your future? That's a great question. And Jan is – people wonder why I've sort of taken up for him more than – you know, I know him, you know, a little bit. He's been very, very respectful.

We got a little bit of a connection because the fact that he grew up where I grew up a part of my life in right outside of Washington, DC and PG County. So we had that, you know, a little connection and you know, when a guy comes in and he's a rookie and you talk to him, it's good that he sees somebody that's familiar with where he grew up. But that being a side of it, give you a little bit of background. They picked Dante Fowler in the first round top five pick he got hurt the next year they picked Yannick Ngakwe. Yannick

Ngakwe played better than Dante Fowler in training camp the first game at home they announced 12 starters they announced both Ngakwe and Fowler Ngakwe runs on the field they call him back send Fowler out and Ngakwe got pissed on the sideline, all right? Ngakwe outplays Fowler, and he outworks him, and he outprepares him, and everyone knows it, and everyone's kind of under their breath saying, Dante needs to be more like him. And he get 38 and a half sacks in four years. Then when you become a free agent, they're still holding these other things against you.

The same thing I said about Minshew. You need to forget that he's a six-round pick. They're saying Yannick is 6'2", 245 pounds, and that's not – you know, he reminds me of Mathis, who played opposite Freeney up in Robert Mathis. That's what he reminds me of. And you can keep talking about his size all you want to. You can talk about his value all you want to.

Bottom line is 38-and-a-half sacks, that doesn't grow on trees. And it also doesn't grow on trees to a guy who shows up early and leaves late. And what else doesn't grow on trees is the fact that the guy probably hasn't eaten a cheeseburger or chicken wing since he's been here. All he does is work. At some point, at some point as an organization

who wants to win, you have to reward guys like that. And you have to start forgetting about all of these measurables and you have to forget about all the analytics and just give it to him based on the fact and send a message to your team. That's the kind of guy that we want. We're going to move on here into the second segment of our show with Tony talking about Jacksonville Jaguars heading into the 2020 season. Before we do, I want to remind you guys,

if you're not already, to subscribe to not only Locked on Jaguars, but also Locked on Colts, Locked on Titans, Locked on Texans, all of our AFC South podcasts here. As we give you guys our ultimate division crossover, we're wrapping up this week. Go ahead and remember to stream, clap your hands, listen to us on.

Subscribe to all of our shows, Locked on Colts, Locked on Jags, Locked on Titans, and Locked on Texans. We'll be back with you guys in just a second to wrap up the show talking about the Jacksonville Jaguars. All right. We are getting into the second part of our conversation here with Tony Wiggins from the Locked on Jaguars podcast

to round out our week of the Ultimate Division Crossover Series here. And, Tony, my first question for you to kind of kick things off in the second portion of our show is about the other first-round rookie you have there in C.J. Henderson. Obviously, the secondary in Jacksonville has been overhauled quite a bit from the talented team we saw in 2017. What do you think C.J. Henderson can do to try to get the secondary back to those sort of levels?

I think what he gives them is what they lost when they traded Jalen Ramsey. And they're not really the same type of player. Jalen is extremely physical and obviously ran track at Florida State and he could run. Well, C.J. Henderson is almost like an offensive player playing defense. He's physical. He runs like the wind. And he gives them that athleticism to show you how people tend to forget J. Henderson is almost like an offensive player playing defense. He's physical. He runs like the wind.

And he gives them that athleticism. To show you how people tend to forget some of the things that they say, one of the reasons that people said you trade Jalen Ramsey is because, okay, you don't need a franchise corner. You don't need to go out and draft a guy. I used to say, why did you draft him then at number five? And then four years later say, well, you don't need a franchise corner. And then people turned right around and said that that's not what you need. And what did they do at the ninth pick?

They drafted another corner. Anytime you draft a guy in the top ten, you hope he's a franchise player. I think it gives him athleticism, and I think in the league, that throws the ball around a lot at the end of the day, even if he technically has some work that he needs to do. He just gives you a guy that can run with people, and he'll give you a guy that if he can get his hands of the day, even if he technically has some work that he needs to do, he just gives you a guy that can run with people. And he'll give you a guy that if he can get his hands on the ball, he can take it the other way if he has to.

With this draft class you put together with C.J. Henderson, Caleb on chase, on the biscuit, Shane Hall as well, who I think could really have a good future there in Jacksonville, this all ties into the Jalen Ramsey trade, in my opinion, from last year, where, of course, Ramsey forced his way out of Jacksonville, went to L.A. The pick he used from the Ramsey trade in 2020 was with Caleb on chase

on the course of the 2021 first-round pick as well. Looking back on now, about six-plus months later, Tony, how do you feel that that Ramsey situation went and do you think the Jaguars are better off now? They're better off because he got to the point where he didn't want to be here anymore. And most people attributed that to Tom Coughlin.

And that stuff can really tear up your locker room. And there are a lot of people that thought Jalen wanted bigger and better things in terms of being in a market that, you know, would bear his, you know, pocketbooks even better. So from that point, yeah, they're cool. But look, this is what Jacksonville has to do. They have to get to the point where they stop replacing and start building on the foundation that they set. If you look back,

they drafted Leonard Fournette at number four. They're already planning on replacing it. They spent a lot of money on Malik Jackson a few years ago, and then they draft Taven Bryant at 29 in 2018 when Lamar Jackson sitting right there and went two picks later, and they had Blake Bortles as their starter. So now they're replacing Taven Bryant at 29 in 2018 when Lamar Jackson sitting right there and went two picks later and they had Blake Bortles as their starter. So now they, they replaced Taven Bryant.

They replaced Malik Jackson with Taven Bryant. You trade Jalen Ramsey. Now you're replacing him with CJ Henderson. You, you might lose a Yannick Ngakwe. So now you're going to replace him with Kelebi Ancheson. At some point, if you don't have these building blocks and then add at other positions, and instead of just having four great players, now you have 12, if you don't have these building blocks and then add at other positions and instead of just having four great players,

now you have 12 sort of the way Seattle did it, Dallas did it and the way a lot of these other teams, Kansas city did it. At some point, it's not about cherry picking guys that can play. They're going to have a lot of guys that left this team that can play and they're playing for other people. It's about team building. And until you get to the point where you're team building, instead of every three years replacing your foundation, you're never going to ever get any better.

Sorry, guys. Okay. Hey, Wig, I had a quick question. Earlier in the week, you know, your rookie round receiver, LaVisca Finault Jr., who signed his contract with Jacksonville Jaguars. He's picked 42nd overall. He was just out there – he was just out there playing around earlier in the week, you know, just doing a lot of different things outside of, you know,

what he possibly should be doing when it comes to quarantining and the possibility of having an NFL season or not. My question is, are the Jags an organization to look to right now with confidence on how they're handling the COVID-19 situation? I think they are. They've, I will give them credit. They were the first team to wear Black Lives Matter shirts as a team as an organization they were the first team they marched to the police station they had the players

involved and they not only they had not only the players management and then they had the actual police involved too of one of the guys that had involved as a former Jaguar who played here a wide receiver for the Jags for a long time and And it went very, very peaceful. Leonard Fournette got with the mayor and the mayor and little Duvall, shout out to little Duvall and Rich Broke. You know, that's, that's our boy. They, they had a rally with fans. They were, they, they really took the lead and didn't wait for the NFL to do a lot of things. So in terms of that, and in terms of, you know, they've implemented safety precautions in quarantine, we've been zooming and guys aren't allowed access,

but they recently announced that they're going to only have 25% capacity at their game. So they, they've been upfront with all of that stuff, but I know everybody's excited about LaVishka Chenault, but people need to be more excited about DJ Chark. DJ Chark, I'm sorry. Chark, much like A.J. Brown, with the exception of the fact that he's in his second year instead of his first, Chark was a Pro Bowl alternate who eventually made the Pro Bowl. If you look at his numbers, DJ Chark is a 6'4", 215-pound superstar

that runs a 4.35. We can't look past him when we're looking at these new shiny parts. DJ Chark is the number one wide receiver on this football team, and I expect him to show not only the AFC South but the rest of the league that that's not by accident. Yeah, Chark is pretty impressive, I think, and that's one of the bright spots when you look at this Jaguars roster. One thing I do want to say real quick before I throw my question to you,

Wigg, is if you have not heard yet, look at this Jaguars roster. One thing I do want to say real quick before I throw my question to you, Wigg, is if you have not heard yet, please go check out the Black Lives Matter roundtable done by the Locked On Podcast Network. It was a fantastic conversation that our own host, you know, John and Tony were a part of. And I think both of them did a fantastic job telling their perspective. It was a great conversation. And if you have not heard that, make sure you go back and check that out.

It was on all of the national show feeds. You can find that on the feed for whatever team it is that you follow out of the AFC South. I would encourage you to check out that conversation if you have not already. But my question for you, Wig, is kind of about the bright spots here. I know that not a lot of people are expecting a great season out of the Jaguars, but if they do surprise and have a competitive season, what do you think the recipe, I guess, as a man who knows how to cook, what do you think the recipe would be for the Jaguars to have a better

than expected season? That they adapt quickly to what Jay Gr groome brings to the table that gardener minshu continues to develop and becomes a quarterback that plays as good on schedule as he does off as he does off schedule that leonard fournette believe it or not in his first three years he had one year where he got hurt and he got suspended the other two years he ran for a thousand yards last right now without even looking down his stats how many balls do you think Leonard Fournette caught last year all of you just give me a round about 20 7 I want to say 78 it was it was over 75 catches wow so so my thing right so my thing is he had a 200 yard game at Denver the problem with Fournette is he's not named Mahomes he's not named

Watson he's not named uh McCaffrey's not named Watson, he's not named McCaffrey. That's it. And that's what I keep trying to tell people. If you look at his first three years, he's averaged just about 1,000 yards and last year the guy caught 70-some-odd balls. I mean, so it's just amazing to me

that people can act like this dude is like Kajana Carter or something. So I think if – and he's done this now for the first two years with no quarterback play, and last year with a rookie. He's done this with stacked boxes, with a subpar offensive line. I think Leonard Fournette has a huge year this year, and I think that has to work in conjunction with Gardner Minshew and Jay Gruden being on the same page so people can back up out of that box a little bit,

but because they're so young and I want to talk about that YouTube before you guys go, but because they're so young, I think there's going to be a team that gets in a bunch of shootouts. You know, they're going to look like the 49ers did a year before last, where they're real, real competitive. They're going to look like the Colts. In fact, I believe the Colts, their 11 losses two years ago, they were like winning nine of them going into the fourth quarter or some crazy stuff like that.

They're going to be a team that's a hard out for everybody because they're going to keep firing and keep firing and keep firing, but they just may not have the experience that's required for them to win those games down the stretch. Yeah, that makes sense. And it's something that obviously we are going to watch this division. As we know from the past few years, this division can go any direction at any time.

And that's why it's one of the most fun and competitive divisions in the NFL. But once again, I want to thank all of the hosts from the Locked On AFC South podcast, Evan Sidery of Locked On Colts, Tony Wiggins of Locked On Jaguars, and John Hickman from the Locked On Texans. It's been another great week here of an Ultimate Division crossover as we head into training camp.

Make sure that you are subscribed to all of the shows that we have talked about and talked about and talked with throughout the week. Make sure you check out the national shows as well from the Locked On Podcast Network, the Locked On NFL Show, the Locked On NFL Draft, and the Locked On Fantasy Football for great content there as well. Follow us all on social media. Most of all, thank you to all of the listeners for another great week.

And we look forward to kicking off training camp here shortly and getting into another great season of NFL football. Guys, it's been a fantastic week. Thank you so much. Thank you, man. Thanks, everybody. Awesome. That is going to do it for us here, the host of the AFC South Locked On Podcast.