Locked On Colts - Daily Podcast On The Indianapolis Colts - Why Carson Wentz wanted out of Philadelphia with Inside The Birds' Geoff Mosher

Episode Date: March 2, 2021

On today's episode, Inside The Birds' Geoff Mosher joins Evan to go over the Carson Wentz saga from all angles. Why did Wentz want out of Philadelphia? Mosher provides his insider intel going over multiple layers of the Wentz ordeal.During trade negotiations, was it only the Indianapolis Colts involved heavily? Mosher details what happened during trade talks involving Wentz.Wentz's issues with the organization ran deep. From Doug Pederson and Howie Roseman to the selection of Jalen Hurts, many things led to their star quarterback losing trust in the organization.Closing out the show, Geoff goes over the fit for Wentz in Indy. How will the Colts' new starting quarterback look in 2021 and beyond?Putting a bow on the Wentz trade, Geoff provides insider intel you won't find anywhere else. Make sure to tune in, Colts fans! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Colts, your daily Indianapolis Colts podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello everybody, welcome back to the latest episode of Locked On Colts, part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Today's always roast, Evan Setter, joined by a very special guest today's episode, Jeff Mosher, the Eagles insider over at Inside the Birds. Jeff, how you doing today? I know we had your co-host Adam Kaplan on last week talking about the Wentz trade.

I'm excited to get your thoughts on this as well. I'm great. Thanks for having me. I hope that I can, you know, Adam is so dialed in as well. I hope that maybe I can offer you a different or fresher perspective. But I know he and I are pretty lockstep in what's going on with the Carson Wentz trade, new organization. Let me ask you this first off, Jeff, just from where the Wentz era was about a year ago. They finished this regular season 4-0 in 2019.

Of course, we all know what happens against Seattle in that game. Wentz gets a concussion, only plays nine snaps, and from there, Wentz really doesn't ever have a playoff experience in Philadelphia. They see the Super Bowl in 2017, but Wentz really bounced back well in 2018 and 2019. Just what happened in 2020, and who would have thought the Eagles would have ever got to this point? It seemed like it was so sudden.

I think that's a great way to put it, Evan. We talk about this a lot recently because the Eagles are now kind of in this transition slash rebuild mode, new coaching staff, obviously new quarterback, totally different kind of focus now that they have had to, you know, absorb such a big cap hit and they were well over the cap anyway, but nobody could have seen this coming at the end of 2019. This is, it's one thing to be kind of like the Browns for a long time

or the Jets where you kind of know even going into the year or sometime early in the year that at the end of the year, you're still going to be rebuilding and adding. But the Eagles are in a completely different position now than they expected to be. In fact, if you look at how 2019 ended, and you mentioned it, going 4-0 in the last four games to win the division, have a home game in the playoffs against Seattle,

which clearly became kind of incomplete for them when Carson left, it should have been the type of offseason, and it was. It started to be that way, where they knew that they were up against the cap, but they still had Carson coming off that really great December. So it was supposed to be a little bit of a roster replenish last year at this time, and then so that by the time you're going into 2021, you were hoping to kind of be a Super Bowl contender again. But now, completely different.

You have no Carson. You have no Doug Peterson you have an entirely new staff and you have a you know a lot of cap money you have to get off the hook so nobody could have seen this coming at the end of last year I know that when they drafted Jalen Hurts in the second round a lot of fans felt that that was some kind of indication that the team was already starting to move on, but absolutely not. That is not the case. Yeah. Let me ask you about this point, Jeff, because we've heard a lot of stories coming out of Philadelphia. I know you're very much one of the more plugged in insiders there in the Philly market when it comes to the Eagles. When did you first start hearing about Wentz being

disgruntled in Philadelphia and possibly wanting out? And also just like what happened there in Philadelphia with his relationships around the organization. It seemed like it's really deep root here. Yeah. So it's weird because there's no smoking gun, right. With this whole Carson went situation. I'm not sure that there's a proverbial straw that broke the camel's back or

one specific incident that led Carson to believe that he's done, but done with the Eagles. But, you know, there was an accumulation of things that were going on over time. And this goes back to, you can go back to maybe 2018. You can go back to when Frank Reich and John DeFilippo left in 2017. And then Mike Groh became the offensive coordinator in 2018. He's with the Colts now, as you know, as the receivers coach. The relationship

there wasn't great. Then obviously he got fired, and then Press Taylor, who's also with the Colts now, was promoted to quarterback's coach, and he had a very good relationship with Carson Wentz. But some would tell you, and I would agree, that the closeness between those two and the lack of aggressive or hard coaching on Press' end kind of allowed Carson to have a feeling where he didn't need to be coached or being coached tough wasn't necessary like it was when he was a rookie and John DiFilippo was coaching him.

So that's my roundabout way of saying that there's always been kind of the coaching issue with Carson Wentz since he got here, but then obviously other factors then started to come into play as far as the injuries and Nick Foles winning the Super Bowl in his place and then the drafting of Jalen Hurts in the second round and then the benching. I mean, you can even go to the – there were stories along the way that came out where anonymous teammates were taking shots at Carson,

and I'm not sure the organization really did a great job of turning over the culture there to make sure that that wouldn't continue to happen as well. So when you put all of that that I just said in kind of the context there, you have an idea of why Carson has decided that he just needed a fresh start and wanted to be somewhere else. One point that you and Adam brought up in your show last week when talking about the Wentz trade, I might have also been on your live reaction show, right, as it happened the same morning, but when Doug Peterson brought up, I think it was after the Packers game that, or maybe it was the week after that, but Carson Wentz is their quarterback right

now. It was like midweek when he was asked that, and it wasn't really like shooting down anything about Jalen Hurts, and you said, and maybe it might have rubbed Wentz the wrong way, but we've heard a lot about Peterson and Wentz, the rift they had. We heard Adam Shepard sit in and talk for a couple months at a time there at the end of the season. From what you know, Jeff, what was the relationship like at the end there between Peterson and Wentz?

Yeah, it wasn't good, clearly. You know, when you see that they didn't talk for weeks on end, I feel like there's a little bit open to interpretation there. I think the idea is that they had a very strained relationship and weren't going and reaching out to each other the way a head coach and a quarterback you think would be. Of course, they had to have some kind of communications about the game plan and things of that nature. But there were no pleasantries and warm and fuzziness between them

for the last few weeks there. And that even goes back before the benching. You bring up what he said in the press conference about he was asked if Carson Wentz was his quarterback, and Doug Peterson's answer was something to the effect of, well, yeah, on Wednesday, of course, which is a ridiculous answer. I mean, it almost leaves open the idea that something's going to happen, and it didn't even happen that week.

So to me, that was not a great response by Doug Peterson that would instill any kind of confidence in Carson Wentz. And there was also a time during the season where Brett Favre, who's very close to Doug Peterson, they were teammates on the Packers, had come out and said that the Eagles should have moved on from Carson Wentz and kept Nick Foles. And when Doug Peterson was asked about that, and by the way, the reason you asked Doug Peterson that question is because you know

the relationship between Doug and Brett. And it would appear on the surface that if Brett is echoing that sentiment, that it might've even come from Doug. And Doug was asked about it. And his answer during the press conference was that he respects Brett Favre's opinion, but that's not how he sees it. And I'm sorry, I know they're friends, but that's not an opinion that you should respect when it basically disparages your starting quarterback. You need to kind of squash it right then and there and say, Brett's a good friend of mine, but I completely disagree with him.

But the fact that he kind of had to answer it three times over because he kept repeating he respects Brett Favre's opinion just kind of goes to show to you that the relationship between Doug and Carson was very, very odd this past year. And I'm not sure either did a great job in trying to clean it up and, and build a bridge for what it could have been. Bet online is the fastest and easiest way to balance all your sports action. Football might be over, but NBA, college basketball, and NHL are in full swing. Bet online even covers awards, TV shows, and reality TV.

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Last point here on just the aspects revolving on Carson winning the league at Philadelphia. You brought up at the top of the show the Jalen Hurts pick and how that really wasn't sort of the straw that broke the camel's back, so to say, but from all that we've heard out at Philadelphia and Jeff, you can add in your input here, of course from what you've heard as well, but does it really

seem like from your vantage point that Carson was kind of watching over his shoulder the whole time when he was starting at the first part of the year just because Jalen Hurts is on board as a second-round pick but like what did you hear about that Hurts Wentz dynamic throughout the year well I'll tell you this about Carson he's very type A and I wouldn't say he's a paranoid guy but he's a competitive guy to the point where he wants things like a lot of quarterbacks and then you know obviously the Colts fans remember what it was like when when Peyton Manning was there.

And he had a very big fingerprint in what went on in the offense. And Peyton was very kind of demanding about what he did want and what he didn't want as far as certain offensive concepts. And Carson is the same way like that. And Doug and the Eagles kind of enabled that by giving him the keys to the offense from the start, his rookie year, and wanted his input and let him have control at the line of scrimmage. And so you've given that guy that kind of autonomy over an offense. But then he gets hurt and sees other guys succeed in the offense and sometimes running different things and different

concepts. Certainly when Nick Foles was the quarterback, they running different things and different concepts. Certainly when Nick Foles was the quarterback, they did some things differently. And same thing with Jalen Hurts. So I don't know that when Jalen Hurts was drafted, he was looking over his shoulder per se, but I definitely think that he felt that pressure. And maybe that was just internal pressure that he put on himself because he's wired that way.

I don't believe the Eagles drafted Jalen hurts to take his job this past year, next year, or any year. He was supposed to be an economical backup who didn't cost the Eagles a lot of money. Like the past few backup quarterbacks have, but his presence on the team, surely there's no doubt in my mind, based on how I just view it myself and some things that I've heard, his presence on the team and where they drafted him had an impact on Carson Wentz. There's no doubt about that. Let's dive into the trade aspect of this, Jeff.

When did you first start hearing smoke around Carson wanting out of Philadelphia? And when the Eagles actually started listing the offer? I felt like we were very close. Beginning of February on the Super Bowl, we heard about the Wentz trade talks between me and Rappaport and Adam Schefter. Thought there'd be a deal commencing within two or three days after that initial report, but really things slowed down

for a couple weeks after that. Then eventually, the Eagles and Colts come to agreement on number 84 overall pick in this year's draft, plus an additional 2022 second-round pick that could turn into a first-round pick more likely than not if Wentz does well in any of this upcoming season.

What can you give, Jeff, as far as the intel you've heard on when the Eagles started fielding calls? And was this really a one-team race all along with Indy? Well, I think, you know, for Adam and I, what we reported was it was pretty much a foregone conclusion within probably the last few days of the season or after the season that Carson had lost his faith in the organization and preferred to go in a different direction. And it's my feeling that when I know there are reports out there that they didn't have to deal him, that he would have come

back and played the good soldier because he was under contract. But, you know, I equate it to like a marriage, you know, if you're married and, and your wife tells you, you know, hon, I kind of prefer a different environment or a fresh start. There might not be any repairing that. That's pretty much the time where you have to look at it and say, I think it's time that when we move on and go separate ways because I can't have somebody questioning their commitment to me, right? So I feel like that's how the Eagles approach this, that Carson made it clear that he wanted a fresh start, but you don't want your quarterback to be halfway committed to you. And so that's where it was known.

It was out there in the media. Obviously, there were discussions, I was told, between the Eagles and other teams that were not the Colts. But as far as I know, the Colts were the only team that made an offer. So I guess you kind of, you know, that's up to your interpretation. You know, I do believe that other teams called. I think that that's pretty common. Anytime a quarterback like Carson Wentz is going to become available, everybody's going to do their, their diligence and try to find out what the asking price is.

But, you know, probably a week or two into it after, after Nick Sirianni was hired and it was still apparent that Carson wasn't coming back, you would hear, we were told that the Colts were the most logical destination. A lot of people felt because of the,

their capability to bring them on because of the coaching staff that was there because Carson would want to be there, that there were just so many reasons why the Colts made sense of some other teams made sense, but didn't either have the cap space or the draft capital to be able to, to give up. So that's why it really became a one-team race, because the Colts had every single box you could check off

to make this thing work. What really intrigues me about this whole situation, Jeff, was hiring Nick Sirianni, Frank Reich's right-hand man, his offense coordinator, so to say, from Indy the last couple years. Of course, this is Frank Reich's offense, but Sirianni was his trusted ally. And to get him on board there in Philadelphia as a new head coach, you thought immediately after Peterson was fired that this is the guy that Carson Wentz will be able to work with.

He'll be able to mesh with this guy. He's a Frank Reich disciple, so to say. Did they ever speak, Wentz and Sirianni? Because it just felt like to me that you hire Nick Sirianni based off trying to rehab Carson Wentz and his production a little bit. But did you hear anything behind the scenes about Sirianni and Wentz and if they ever really spoke that much? Well, Nick Sirianni did say in his press conference that he had spoke in his introductory press conference, which happened about a week after he accepted the job,

that he spoke with Carson Wentz and it was a good conversation. But I'm fairly certain without, me being in the room or on the phone, that Carson was respectful about it, but basically reiterated to Nick what he had told the organization was that he preferred a fresh start. And so the joke that I have lately with everyone is if Nick Sirianni really wanted to coach Carson Wentz, he should have just stayed as the Colts offensive coordinator because then it would have came into fruition.

But no, he's here with the Eagles. I do know that when the Eagles did their head coaching interviews, they asked all of the candidates Offense is very important to Jeffrey Lurie and the Eagles. They constantly talk about if you can't win a Super Bowl without being a top five offense, that's their belief. I mean, others can disagree, but that's what they commonly express. And so they wanted to go out there and cast a wide net and really get an idea from their candidates on how they view offense and how they view the quarterback and what would be their plan for fixing Carson Wentz.

But I'm also told that – actually, Adam was told this. I should be fair on that. Adam Kaplan was told that not every – they weren't all told that Carson Wentz was definitely going to be on the team. They were asked what they would do to repair Carson, but not told that Carson would definitely be on the team. So there's a big difference there. So I still think, though, for the purpose of this conversation,

that when Nick Sirianni took the job, he was hoping that Carson Wentz would come back. And now he's in, obviously, an entirely different situation. And the team is in a different situation. Because if Carson was coming back yeah they'd still have to be making a lot of moves to get under the cap but you'd still think they'd be confident in if he if he were rebuilt that they would be a pretty good team and now they're kind of in a no man's land so to speak so you do wonder you know on the inside is Nick Sirianni

maybe having a little bit of buyer's remorse for taking the job? You have to be wondering that just a little bit because the situation now is, I would imagine, pretty already on the hot seat for Sirianni. Like, of course, Howie Roseman is still there as a GM, but we'll have to see what happens there the next couple years for Sirianni in Philadelphia. But let's talk about the compensation of the trade as well, Jeff. Like we mentioned, the third round pick this year, a conditional second that could turn to a first in 2022. Is that surprising the compensation the Eagles got for Carson Wentz? They assigned him that big deal, so of course you're kind of getting

off that money. Like you mentioned, the biggest debt cap in NFL history, around $34 million. But from what you've heard from the Eagles' point of view, was like the Matthew Stafford type asking price legitimate at the beginning? Because I feel like a lot of teams might have given dial tones there on that. That was actually the case.

I'm sure that they were asking for that, Evan. That's Howie Roseman's kind of MO is to try to go out there with the highest price possible and probably not just Howie's MO. I'm sure a lot of GMs take that stance. Try to get as much as they can possible. Try to create a bidding war or the idea of a bidding war. Certainly there were leaks about teams that were interested that probably weren't as interested as it seems.

They just made a phone call or had an internal conversation about it. I think the Colts did the right thing and Chris Ballard did the right thing, staying pretty strong to not having to give up too much. I think the conditional element is very fair. If Carson Wentz winds up having a very good year and the Colts make the playoffs, then he's certainly worth giving up one future first-round pick for, along with a third-round pick. So I would say both teams won out here. You do wonder if Chris could have held Howie's feet to the fire a little bit more because there were no other teams involved. But from Chris Ballard's standpoint, he knows what Carson Wentz is. He has Frank Reich, obviously, the information there, Press Taylor, the information there.

Plus, Howie is the type of person, they didn't have to make a move until March 17th. And so Howie could have played hard to get for another three, four, or five weeks until finally giving in to whatever Chris Ballard may have wanted. But then you go five more weeks without having your quarterback on the team and without getting involved quarterback on the team and without getting involved with your playbook and trying to get to them as much as possible during this pandemic when we're all limited with our interactions anyway. So I understand why the

Colts didn't maybe hold out until the very end. And at the end of the day, I think it's a fair deal. Colts fans, rockauto.com is the place to go if you want to save money on your next car purchase, whether it be saving another $100 on a fuel pump assembly, getting stuff like motor oil, new carpet, tail lamps, brake parts, engine control modules, whatever it may be, rockauto.com is the place to go because you save so much money back into your wallet. The catalog is unique and roughly easy to navigate as well. And best of all, the price at rockauto.com was reliably low, and the same for professionals, dealers, selfers. So why spend twice as much for the same parts to get even cheaper at rockauto.com? Go to rockauto.com right now, see all the parts available for your car or truck, write

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a roster review, free agency rising, and go through a team-centric mob draft as well. That's every Tuesday over at Locked On NFL Draft. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Looking at this from the cold side of things now, Jeff, from the Frank Reich perspective, the relationship there, from what Adam has said before, like, Reich was very much on board getting him. And, of course, you have to understand why the way he played under Reich and then he was a part of the scouting process

when he went to North Dakota State when he was drafted in 2016. But from that relationship, Adam told us in the podcast last week, Jeff, that was almost like a brotherly relationship, like older brother, younger brother, with Frank Reich and Carson Wentz. What was your thoughts on the whole aspect between Reich and Wentz during their time in Philly? Yeah, I think that that's fair. I think that you can even call it maybe a good cop, bad cop type of relationship when Frank was the offensive coordinator and when John DeFilippo was the quarterback's coach. Because DeFilippo, as his position coach,

was the one who was on him every single day from his rookie year. You know, he asked Carson to make certain changes coming home from North Dakota State in technique. And, you know, they butted heads a little bit, DeFilippo and Carson Wentz, but eventually Carson kind of learned and had obviously a good rookie year and then a great, fantastic second year, which helped the Eagles get in a position to win the Super Bowl. So it's my understanding Frank was more of that, you know,

kind of the low-key, big brotherly type, good cop type. We both played quarterback. We're both in a former NFL. Well, he's a former NFL quarterback and has that ability to kind of relate to him on that kind of level of it. I think also just looking at this from another angle from the Colts' perspective, what's your thoughts on Wentz landing in Indy, and what kind of leverage did Carson hold in these negotiations?

From what we heard, he really didn't want to go to Chicago. Indy was his first, second, and third choice. Did Carson really have that leverage there, even though he was on that long-term contract, where could he really hold out and say, hey, Chicago, if it was, let's say, the Bears, for example, I'm not going to come there, and then the Bears eventually maybe not even get involved in that. Like, did really Carson hold any leverage there from where he could say, it's Indy and only Indy, and I'm not going to come there. And then the Bears eventually maybe not even get involved in that. Like, did really Carson hold any leverage there from where he could say,

it's Indy and only Indy and I'm not going to go anywhere else? It's certainly possible. I think it's up to interpretation. I mean, if the Bears never made an offer, is it because they were told Carson didn't want to go there? Or did they do their own kind of tape watching after having discussions and talk to DeFilippo, who's with them now and, and then make an evaluation and say,

I don't know if, cause everybody in the bears is on a one year deal right now. I mean, they're lucky to have their jobs talking about the general manager and the coaching staff. So while they don't have a great quarterback solution, it's also not a great solution for them to bring in a quarterback who may not want to be there and who may not be the quarterback that he was two or three

years ago. They don't have a great offensive line. They don't have a great set of weapons, especially if they lose Allen Robinson. So what's it worth to them to bring in Carson Wentz and have to give up a potential first round pick when they don't have the right kind of support system to make it work with him. Because he definitely needs to be repaired and rebuilt. It's easy to say, well, Carson on his best day

is still better than Mitchell Trubisky, but how long does it take Carson to get back to his best days? The Colts, I think, are ideal situation because even if Carson isn't what he was by week one or week two, even if he's still kind of a work in progress through a rebuild, at least the Colts have a great offensive line and great defense, a great running game where they can manage Carson. They can have him out there and not ask him to put the Superman cape on

right off the bat. There's more ways for them to skin a cat, and they can win in different ways if they have to while they rebuild Carson. I don't know if the Bears had that same luxury. In fact, I think of all the teams interested, that's what made, again, the Colts the best scenario is that they have the right environment to help Carson rebuild and repair, but they're also pretty good to the point where they don't need perfection out of the quarterback from day one.

They just need a quarterback who's not going to completely lose the game for them. Jeff, that was a great segue there for my last few questions. Really appreciate the time today, Jeff. But looking over the situation again in Indianapolis for Carson Wentz, like you just mentioned there, he doesn't have to put on the Superman the Superman cape so to say in India when he heads to the Colts this year in 2021 to be their quarterback you have Jonathan Taylor you have the offensive line you have a top 10 defense you have the connection with Frank Reich and Press Taylor and the offense coaching staff for them I mean how much do you think it's going to help Carson Wentz to not have

to go in there and be an MVP type of candidate to have that pressure on his shoulders like you say with him he's a type A personality he likes to have control so to say have to go in there and be an MVP type of candidate, to have that pressure on his shoulders, like you say, with him and he's a type A personality. He likes to have control, so to say. But he can come in there, Frank Gregg can tell him, hey, just be like Phillip Brewers was last year. Obviously, be a little bit more mobile than Phillip was in 2020, but just be a top 15 quarterback.

Don't be a top five, top three quarterback. You know, it's going to help him out a little bit. Yeah, I think the environment will help out Carson Wentz. You know, I don't think Carson is going to change who he is. I still think he'll be that ultra-intense guy, and I still think that there might be elements of him that are difficult in the coaching room, and he might be demanding of certain things as far as concepts in the past game and how the offense has ran.

However, I do think if he trusts the organization, which clearly had eroded with the Eagles, then you can work with some of those attachments that come with being Carson Wentz. I mean, the Eagles, like I said, this goes back a while for Carson Wentz, coming out of North Dakota State, kind of being saddled with that reputation. And yet they were still able to do well in 2016, still able to do great in 2017 with Carson Wentz. And even coming back from the injury in 18 and 19, they were able to win games and make the playoffs. So you can win with Carson, even if he's difficult to coach or if he's got certain demands of an offense that can be difficult to acquiesce.

So you can still win as long as there's some mutual trust there and you build the team correctly and you've got all the elements in place. And I think the Colts do have that in place. Last one here for you, Jeff. Looking at the Philadelphia Eagles in 2021, obviously a lot different place than they were a year ago at this time. Carson Wentz is gone. Doug Peterson is gone.

I imagine the seats are getting a little warmer for guys like Haya Roseman in Philadelphia. Into the future, Nick Sirianni now, the Colts' coordinator, is the head coach in Philadelphia. What's going to happen this offseason? What's the plan going to be for them for A&C? Do you think there's actually a chance they draft a quarterback at six? What do you think is going to happen

there in Philly? It's going to be so interesting to follow that. Yeah, it's really a fascinating question. I do think that they'll have to you know look I'm not there like I would assume that they've evaluated Jalen Hurts based on last year's tape and then of course what they saw coming out of college I think they're evaluating the quarterbacks in this I know they're evaluating the quarterbacks in this year's draft and they're gonna have to make a decision and it may have already been made about whether or not they think that someone that they can get at six or maybe

even a little higher if they have to trade up is where is going to be the guy for them more so than Jalen Hurts and so if they if that's what they decide then they'll make that move because they've never been afraid to be aggressive the big thing is they're going to have to scale down get rid of about four or five players it's already started with alshon jeffrey and deshaun jackson malik jackson there'll be others probably zach ertz you should probably keep an eye on him because i would think the colts would want to be interested if if ertz becomes available especially if he gets cut um you know they're going to have to kind of rechange a lot just to get compliant with the cap. And then of course, in free agency, they're really not going to be able to do much. They'll

have to get under the cap, obviously, to get some free agents. And I would expect if they do anything in free agency, it's going to be one year deals for some veterans. It's not going to be any big splashes because they just don't have the resources to be able to do that this year. The big question is just basically what you asked, is that will they get a quarterback in the draft or will they roll with Jalen Hurts? Jeff, awesome stuff here. Really appreciate the insight you provided for us today.

He is the co-host of Inside the Birds with Adam Kaplan. He does awesome stuff over at InsideTheBirds.com. Go out and then check that out. Colton's Jeff and Adam do amazing stuff over there. Jeff really appreciate the time today and really, really enjoyed our conversation. My pleasure, Evan. Thanks for having me on. Have a good one.