Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Are Lakers Fans Ready for the LeBron Era to End in LA? Plus, a Horrible Trade Idea!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey everyone, welcome to Locked on Lakers for Tuesday, Brian Komenetsky, Andy Kaminetsky. A lot of fans seem ready for the LeBron era to be over. Why? Plus, some coach of the year love for JJ Reddick. That's next. You are Locked on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network. Your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:31 Thanks to everybody for making Locked on Lakers. First listen to every day Monday through Friday, no matter how where you get your podcast this one's always free, never behind paywall. Locked on Linkers on YouTube is where you can go hang out with upwards of 35,000 subscribers to the channel. And all of them, Andy, are, they're ducking into the playoffs. So they're checking out who's winning and who's losing. And they're noting that JJ Redick got some coach of the year love. And they're wondering where centers are going to come from.

Starting point is 00:01:02 There's lots of stuff that we're going to get into. But before we do that, Andy, the reaction to our show for Monday, I have found interesting because I think you can divide it up for those who missed it, you can go back and listen. It's all about LeBron James.

Starting point is 00:01:19 I mean, Luca Donchurch, we know, is going to come back. We're fairly confident, you know, is going to come back until we hear differently, just in whatever form of a contract Luca wants. That's all the Lakers are really waiting on, and they'll give him what he wants. LeBron, on the other hand,

Starting point is 00:01:33 it is, you know, because of his age and all of this, it's a little bit more of a sticky issue about the how and the when and the how long and all of this stuff. And so we spent a lot of time for Monday show Andy talking about it and breaking down the different potential options and all these other things. And I have been, as far as I can tell, tell me if you disagree, I'm kind of seeing a fair amount of we're done of reaction, at least on our channel, we're done with the LeBron era. And I think you can break that down into a few different reasons.

Starting point is 00:02:16 But broadly speaking, I was at least a little surprised at how many people were like, great, get rid of a move on and let's turn the page. I'm not surprised. It's a combination of the factors that I talked about, which I tried to stress, albeit to no success. It's not about quote-unquote hating LeBron or disrespecting him, not appreciating him. It's a matter of a roster spot being taken up in a salary-capped league, as LeBron needs more infrastructure, needs more help around him, and you are looking for the opportunity to truly build the way you would want to around Luca Dantzich as your younger

Starting point is 00:03:03 face of the future, which cannot be fully realized with LeBron's salary there, even to some degree LeBron's presence, but if nothing else, the salary, even while acknowledging LeBron is still playing at a high level. So that's a piece of it. The other piece of it, to be totally honest, is Laker fans, I think, as a whole, as a collective, I think many of them have appreciated LeBron, certainly his career. But appreciated that LeBron was part of bringing one championship in 2020. I think they can all appreciate how he really took it upon himself to shoulder the movement forward after Kobe's death and, you know, how difficult that was for the franchise.

Starting point is 00:03:50 And LeBron really played an instrumental role in trying to shepherd the franchise through this unbelievable tragedy and sadness and all of that. And I think that is something Laker fans can appreciate. But the reality is he's never been, I think, universally embraced by Laker fans. I think he's always felt in some ways like something between a mercenary and an interloper and somebody who's been kind of using the franchise while the franchise has been using him. And that's fine. But that means you don't get attached to that player. and particularly when there is a page to be turned,

Starting point is 00:04:33 there will be a lot of fans who want to see it turned. And I'm glad you mentioned the last part of it, because that to me is like the most interesting part of this. Because I do think it's like if you want to break it up and it's not really thirds, but just in whatever percentage, there's a percentage of people who still just don't quite get that like for the $50 million that LeBron no longer would, be making cannot just be directly transferred to another player.

Starting point is 00:05:02 Like you don't get to go out and get a $50 million player with that money. That's not how it works. So there are some people who still just don't quite get it. There are other people who kind of maybe or more like me. Like I would give them a one in one and just I understanding all the things that you, you know, you're getting one on rehashed Monday show entirely. But I get, I think I don't even think what you're saying is wrong. I just think that certainly for next year,

Starting point is 00:05:31 they are far worse off if LeBron doesn't come back. And even in a couple years, I think you can manage your way around it and you're still going to struggle to find players who were better. But I think you can kind of go towards my camp and just not quite get all the way there. Like, you know what? Even if it means one down year,

Starting point is 00:05:50 at some point you got to kind of, there's no clean way to do it. And I get that. It's the third group that I find most interesting of the people who kind of want to move, just because they don't really like LeBron. And they've never really liked LeBron. And so much of it goes back to the Kobe versus LeBron thing that sort of Nike really tried

Starting point is 00:06:14 to create that never happened. The rivalry never got a chance to. Those puppets lied to us, Brian. Those Nike puppets lied to us. They did. explosions in the finals and we never got them never and so like that kind of thing like it's it's that's the group like and because it starts to get into all kinds of of questions about like what ultimately is lebron's legacy going to be as a laker because i mean obviously to be

Starting point is 00:06:53 considered, you know, a Great Laker or something, you've got to win at least a title. And they did. He has a ring in L.A. You mentioned some other stuff, but the success level hasn't been overwhelming in the LeBron era. And there have been a bunch of

Starting point is 00:07:11 disappointing seasons as well. You know, you got one title. You've got a conference finals. And a lot of stuff. Three first round exits to missed playoffs. So now, do you, can you attribute this to LeBron necessarily in his level of play? Not necessarily.

Starting point is 00:07:32 You know, at least most of it. I mean, he's performed at an extremely high level as a Laker, arguably for too long, which is part of the problem and that ever, you know, creates the predicament that everybody finds themselves in. But I just, I find his place like with the Lakers to be. fascinating and the desire for a lot of people for it to be over, I think for some is about basketball and for some it's about other stuff that comes into it. I'm not saying people are wrong. I don't have that same like sort of history or whatever it is, you know, disliking LeBron

Starting point is 00:08:16 or whatever it might be. But I do think that's a factor. I think it's absolutely a factor. I think it's definitely a factor. I mean, the word I've continually used to describe the LeBron era with the Lakers is weird. It's just been a, it's been a very weird seven years that has had the highest of highs in that you won a championship. It's had not just the lowest of lows in that you miss the playoffs altogether, but it includes the Russell Westbrook deal, which is one of the most destructive deals. in recent NBA history that LeBron gets, LeBron gets a lot of it pinned on him in ways you and I have both talked about before. We don't actually think is fair to LeBron,

Starting point is 00:09:04 even though we, it's very clear and well reported. LeBron wanted the deal. But LeBron having a bad idea about what the Lakers should do is one thing. Rob, I mean, LeBron's selling it and Anthony Davis selling it to Rob, successfully, that's the guy you ought to be angry at. Like, he's ultimately said this before, I'll say it again, it is ultimately Rob Polinka's job to tell LeBron and AD no to this idea, assuming he didn't want it, which he did.

Starting point is 00:09:37 He liked it. But if Rob didn't like it, it's actually worse if he got bullied into doing something that he thought was a terrible idea. He should have told those guys no, that it's a bad idea. Then if they argued, go to Jeannie Bus and say, Jeannie, they want us to do this. This is a terrible idea. And then Jeannie needs to back it. But the real problem was Rob Polinka had no issue with the deal.

Starting point is 00:10:01 But the other thing, too, that I think separates Luca and LeBron in a lot of ways, other than Luca becomes the second or third star, depending on what you think of Anthony Davis and all this, following Kobe. So there's more buffers. It's always easier to be the guy after the guy following a legend. But Luca is not seen as big footing the organization the way LeBron and I think to some tangible degree not yet. At some point he will, but not yet.

Starting point is 00:10:35 But he did not big foot his way here. Correct. That's a big difference. I mean, Lucas, I'm just, my point, all stars at some point. Sure. People, you know, they have too much control. We're doing too much to appease. this right. We're just not there yet.

Starting point is 00:10:49 Luke is going to both pun intended and unintended, throw his weight around with this organization because that is what superstars do. Correct. But he did not bigfoot his way here, the way

Starting point is 00:11:05 LeBron did, the way Anthony Davis did, the way it felt like clutch was running the organization and in the eyes of a lot of Laker fans steering them in a bad direction. It remains to be seen what Luca imprints upon the organization, but at the very least, he did not big foot his way over here and hijack his way over here.

Starting point is 00:11:28 And I think to a lot of Laker fans, whether it should matter or not, I think it does. It's interesting. A couple more things on this. And then, you know, get to some other news, including a ridiculous hypothetical trade for a center, but one that's worth talking about only because of. what it represents in terms of the way people think perhaps about the Lakers. So we'll get to all that next. Wat on Lakers is brought to by Fandul.

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Starting point is 00:13:13 but we will try to be as responsive as we can to everyone. Leave us questions, leave us comments via email, Kaminaskibrothers, gmail.com, YouTube here in the comments section, Twitter at Cam Brothers, but the newsletters, if you're wondering why you're not getting them, it's because we're not sending them anymore. So before we finish this LeBron thing, JJ Redick got a little bit of Coach of the Year love. Third place votes a total of five of them, I should say. So we had five third place votes, finished six in Coach of the Year voting because of that.

Starting point is 00:13:52 Any surprise at where he finished? No surprise, Kenny Atkinson in Cleveland won J.B. Bickerstaff was second, E. May O'Doka, third. No, I'm not surprised. Side note, I would have voted for J.B. Bickerstaff, but I have no issue with Kenny Atkinson winning at all. All things considered, I think JJ did a pretty good job this year in terms of both establishing culture and navigating a lot of wild changes and wild opposites. over the course of his first season with one of the highest profile organizations in sports,

Starting point is 00:14:31 much less the NBA. I think he did a good job there. We went through the issues in the playoffs. I think the playoffs ended up quite a learning experience for JJ, I hope, and definitely revealed some things that he needs to work on, particularly temperamentally. Yes. But, you know, he also was working with, it was pretty quickly revealed the lesser roster,

Starting point is 00:14:55 and that's going to make a difficult even for a season coach, much less a rookie. I will say this. The thing I like about Kenny Atkinson winning, and I like about JJ getting at least some acknowledgement here, is oftentimes, you know, like a team like the Lakers, you have LeBron. Oh, you got Luca.

Starting point is 00:15:12 Like there's no acknowledgement of the challenge that comes with what's happening. There's just an assumption that if you're the Lakers coach and, you know, you have all this stuff, you have the resources here, that it's just an easy gig. So I do appreciate that he got some love for that. I think had he not gotten a bunch, you know, five third place votes, I wouldn't have stopped my day. But I like with Kenny Atkinson,

Starting point is 00:15:40 like they rewarded a team as good as, you know, Cleveland was expected to be good, but they were wire to wire incredible. Sure. And I do think you should reward a coach for, excellence even if the team is supposed to be excellent. Sure. So, yeah, but kudos for JJ.

Starting point is 00:15:58 And it would be interesting to see next year, you know, what he does differently. Because all coaches, it's the, it's not the decision making. It's the temperament. Because we've seen, you know, it's not like the, you know, head coach in OKC is an inexperienced guy at this point, just made a set of decisions that a lot of people are going to question. But the temperament stuff is really what JJ, I think, agree with you, needs to fix. All right.

Starting point is 00:16:27 So before we move on to the next thing, it was the last thing I would say about LeBron that I think another thing that just sort of makes, you use the word weird. Even the highest moment and the most successful moment is one that comes with so many mixed feelings because it's a title that people could not get together to celebrate. There was no parade. There was no. Couldn't even watch the games in the building. Right. You're right. Same.

Starting point is 00:16:54 There's no fans in the arena to see the confetti come down or to, you know, there was no crowd to silence in another building. It was just a win. Like, and it was over and they celebrated and they should have. But like there's just the whole thing had a sense of attachment to it that I think is appropriate in sort of framing the entire labor. era where there's this been this just a little bit of detachment. And it's not, I don't think, because LeBron is doing anything wrong, but it is the reality of

Starting point is 00:17:29 his relationship with Lakers fans. And the longer it goes on, the louder the voices who probably didn't love that much of this era anyway, the louder those voices get. Look, there's been a transactional feel to the time that LeBron's been a Laker. That doesn't mean that I think LeBron hasn't enjoyed it or appreciated it or he clearly wanted this to be a part of his legacy. It's been an excellent player. But I'm not saying, like, I get that he wanted to be in L.A. I get that he is basically living his post-retirement life while still playing basketball.

Starting point is 00:18:13 Like I get all of that stuff. I do think there's a pride that he takes in being a Laker. For sure. There's a mercenary field to it that has to be highly successful, I think, in order for fans to truly grow attached to it. So I think that's a piece of it as well. I think there's a feeling the Lakers have had so many homegrown stars. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:39 Or players, you know, like Pau Gasol, who, you know, are traded for under, you know, cloak and dagger circumstances and stuff like that for a player like LeBron who signed here. It's not like, you know, but like also too, you know, the Lakers cleared the decks and, you know,

Starting point is 00:18:57 tanked some seasons and all the stuff with the idea that he was going to come. And all they had to do was really clear the runway. The Lakers fans, whether it's him, even times with Kobe, different times with, you know,

Starting point is 00:19:13 go back. the magic had some rough times with with uh lakers fans and stuff lakers fans don't like the idea of feeling like the player gets to kind of boss around the organization there's a certain sense well unless it's one of truly their guys magic is one of their guys sure you you get more you get more mileage that way but even then there's still kind of a and coby i think is the the ultimate example of it just because he really we know he was there the whole time, 20 years, all that kind of stuff. You know, magic would have been, you know, really was that too.

Starting point is 00:19:50 But what I'm trying to get is just like there's a sense of like, you know, like being like an honor like to be. You should want to be here. Not like the lake, the Lakers shouldn't have to beg or, you know, make concessions or do that kind of stuff. And I think the feeling with LeBron is more so that the Lakers have had to make the type of concessions, even though. really I don't think they've been terribly impactful with the team in any in it like in any

Starting point is 00:20:19 limiting way making those kinds of concessions that have just it's it's just a different kind of relationship star relationship than lakers fans are used to and this is a place where luka will benefit because luka fell out of the sky it ended up a laker and i think it's going to be adopted by lakers fans in in in better ways faster than LeBron ever was. Kind of in conclusion, it should be a smoother transition for Lakers fans and Luca

Starting point is 00:20:54 to develop the kind of bond that LeBron and Lakers fans have not really been able to do. Maybe it changes if they win another title or so before he retires, but as yet it hasn't happened. What also hasn't happened, and God willing won't, is a fairly absurd hypothetical trade for a star center that was kicking around the internet on Monday, but it's worth a word and we'll explain why next.

Starting point is 00:21:34 Oh, Andy, your theory here is that our friend Bill Simmons at the ringer is basically just trying to kill the Lakers. But everybody knows the Lakers need a center. And a hypothetical was going around this from a conversation with Ryan Rissom, and Bill Simmons, just kicking around a hypothetical. It's not a rumor in the league, but a hypothetical of would you or wouldn't you, who says no kind of thing. The Lakers basically putting every loose player they can that isn't Austin Reeves and Luke Donchrich into a deal to bring Joe L.M.B.

Starting point is 00:22:14 To Los Angeles. And here are some of the things Bill Simmons said in this conversation with Ryan Rissilo. I believe on his podcast, on the Ringer Network, with this hypothetical, again, stress, hypothetical, not an actual trade rumor involving Joel and being the Lakers. Embed, talk about a get out of jail free card. Give you all of our expirings and a first and we get out of the Joel, we'll get you out of the Joel and Bid business. This is presumably the pitch from the Lakers to the Sixers.

Starting point is 00:22:47 Here's your Mbid, get out of jail free right now. You don't have to deal with them anymore. That's my favorite Lakers move. All of their expiring and two first-round picks and they get Embed. Reeves isn't in it. He's not in it. You don't even get Reeves. We don't know if In-Beed's ever playing again.

Starting point is 00:23:03 I'm like, I'll take Embed. You can have one of our first-round picks. Here's a bunch of expirings, Bill, in doing this, went back and forth between one and two first-round picks. For what it is worth, by the way, the expirings, Ruy, Gabe Vincent, Maxi-Clae, but that's actually not even enough money to make this happen. So you're going to have to include either Austin or Dalton Connect. Jared Vanderbilt. It wouldn't all be expirings at that point.

Starting point is 00:23:31 But the point is basically you're taking every loose salary you have until you get to what Joe L.M.B. makes. Now, look, I'm a big admirer of Bill Simmons as a content creator, as a tastemaker, talent curator. Like, he has amazing taste. I'm a big consumer of ringer content. like he has an incredible feel for what people enjoy. And I even respect Bill for his passion for the Celtics.

Starting point is 00:23:57 He's from Boston. He's not only allowed to root for the Celtics. He is encouraged to love the Celtics. People from Boston should. But by definition, and I don't even need to define it because he's been open about this, it also means he hates the Lakers. So you know what Bill Simmons' favorite trades for the Lakers are? Trades that will cripple the Lakers.

Starting point is 00:24:16 And by the way, Bill was not nearly as sly about his sci-op operation and make no mistake, this is a sci-op, what he was doing. Because listen to some of the words that he said, get out of jail free card. Joel Embed in this metaphor is jail. Right. The Lakers end up in jail.

Starting point is 00:24:37 He is proposing a trade that would cripple the Lakers, and he is hoping that they are such star-effers that they would immediately spring at the opportunity to take on Joe. Joel Embed and his four years, $243 million that he's owed through 2029. To put this in perspective, my daughter is currently an eighth grader. She will be a senior in high school in 2029. Joel Embed has played 58 games over the last two seasons.

Starting point is 00:25:10 Yes. And look, it's not even a question of like Embedde was horrible in the games that he played last year. That's not the point. His numbers actually weren't bad. All 19 of them were thrilling. Right. That's the point. And like, it's obviously a horrible idea.

Starting point is 00:25:27 And it's obviously an idea the Lakers would not. He's 31 too. Right. You want to pay him until he's 35 because people notoriously get healthier as they get older in this league, guys who can't walk. Yeah. That last year of his contract is $70 million player option. I am penciling that in as opting in right now.

Starting point is 00:25:45 And so like, and I don't mean like, it is unfortunate, at what has happened to M. Bede physically. He's got chronic knee problems that are not going to. This is not an editorial on M. Bid's attitude or this or that or whatever. He's a phenomenal player when he's healthy. He's just never healthy. The point of this, though, and the reason we bring it up is not to make fun and bill. Although we see what you're doing.

Starting point is 00:26:15 We see what you're doing. Right. Or even to really think about like, Should the Lakers do it? No is the answer to that. And I don't even think the star F for Lakers would would be willing to put themselves on the hook for 200 million, $200 plus million from Joe L.N. Bid over the next four years. But the reason I think it's interesting is because it is representative of like the option tree that you sort of have in front of you.

Starting point is 00:26:47 And if your metric is like, we got to go trade for another star or use free agency, like, I think this is the danger of free agency is you end up in a decision to either go get, acquire via trade and then have to resign someone like Joe L. Ambide or Paul George or any of these guys getting deeper into their 30s who, quite frankly, are terrible bets going forward. or like aim smaller. And so the M. Bede is like symbolic here of one path, which is the do you give up everything tantalized by the talent and are willing to overlook the risk. And in today's NBA, I think what is the biggest thing that is going to change going forward is the deals for someone like M.B. The deals for Paul George. The deals for James Hart.

Starting point is 00:27:44 guys like that who are good but limited and you can't, you know, you can't trust to stay healthy going forward. You know, what happens with Kevin Durant going forward? It's going forward. It's going to be fascinating because he's getting older, a little more injury prone,

Starting point is 00:28:00 but is still like LeBron, a tremendous player when he, when he's out on the floor. This is actually where the Lakers benefit from LeBron's age and all that kind of stuff is because I don't think they can sign him to a four-year, $250 million deal. He can only get one and ones, basically.

Starting point is 00:28:18 I think they can do a two and one. He can do a two and one. Right, but like he can't go super long term. In some ways, I believe that at least becomes an advantage for the Lakers. And even if he wanted a two and one, they wouldn't give it to him, I don't think, at this stage. I mean, it might, but I don't, that even, you know, I was defending earlier the idea of like a one and one, a two and one, you know, at a max deal or something like that. might get me to be like, let's pause. But you understand the point.

Starting point is 00:28:49 I'm just going to say it right now. That's straight up bad business to give him a two plus one with the plus one being at his option. 50-ish something like that's horrible. Bad idea. I am. The Lakers are going to need to avoid the temptation and need this. And this is something that supports, I think,

Starting point is 00:29:14 I hope Embedde does not qualify as a temptation. I don't think Embed is a temptation. Nobody's going near that. But to your point that you were making earlier in the first segment, the Lakers, as they start to put something together around Mb... Around Mbid. Damn it, man. You've fallen for it.

Starting point is 00:29:38 Damn you, Bill Simmons. Damn you straight to hell. Look what he did. The Lakers need to make sure they're putting things to... together in a way that matches the current, like, construct of NBA salary caps and team building and all this stuff and make sure they are not putting a team around Luca together in a way that would have been appropriate in 2018. Because that's the problem the clippers are in right now. and that's the problem the sixers are in right now. And it's the problem the Bucks have right now

Starting point is 00:30:16 and why Janus may not be in Milwaukee for that much longer. It is so easy to fall into that trap, me like, you know what, he's the best player. Dame Lillard's still really good or whatever. And you end up in a roster that is just not appropriate and built right for the salary cap, for the CBA of 2025. And that, I think, is what made the MBEed hypothetical.

Starting point is 00:30:46 Interesting to me is that it represents the old way of doing things and also something the Lakers six or seven or eight years ago, maybe not for Joe L.M.B., given his physical state, but the next thing below absolutely would have done. And I hope they would not do. now. It's the big, it's not entirely apples to apples, but it is basically the big man version of the Russell Westbrook trade. To some degree, yeah. Yeah. Only worse because he's on the hook for more money for longer. And at least Russ plays. Right. That's given that. Anyway, so there's

Starting point is 00:31:28 plenty of stuff that we didn't get to actually. We still got to talk about Luca who's going to be playing in Florida for Slovenia and the Eurobasket tournament and all that stuff. And also to what centers they might want to go get if joel mb is just not a great option um so we'll get to all that through the rest of the week locked on lickers on youtube is we're going to hang out with 35 000 plus subscribers to the channel see everyone tomorrow

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Are Lakers Fans Ready for the LeBron Era to End in LA? Plus, a Horrible Trade Idea!

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