Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - How Mark Walter Plans to Modernize the Lakers, and How Rob Pelinka Might React

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Lakers have been an antiquated franchise for years, but that's going to change going forward. We'll tell you how Rob Polinka fits into a modern vision of the team. That's next. You are Locked-on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for stopping by Lockdown Lakers, Brian Komenetsky, Andy Kaminetsky, plenty to uncover.

Starting point is 00:00:34 I really should say unpack. from a story that came out on Wednesday from Yahoo talking a lot about, Andy, the modernization process that the Dodgers are going through under new owner Mark the Lakers are going through. The Dodgers are already under Dodgers owner, now Lakers owner, Mark Walter. The Dodger for dodgerification of the Lakers, if you will. So we're going to break down a lot of that. One of the more interesting things I think about this story,

Starting point is 00:01:06 is the sort of the yearly mantra, Andy, of the Lakers. Every year, we're going to, the goal this year is to win a title. I'll tell you why I think that's actually the wrong way for the Lakers to approach it and why they might want to change the language. But first, let's start with just this notion and the basic premise of Yarn Weitzman's piece for Yahoo that the Lakers are essentially an antiquated franchise. by league standards. It doesn't mean they haven't been successful,

Starting point is 00:01:40 just means how they've been doing it is a little old fashion, and it's certainly hard to argue. Well, I mean, when you think about it, the last 16 years, they've won one championship, and that championship was a very unusual, and to be clear, unusual is not asterisk, unusual is not lesser, unusual is nothing other than unusual. You can make compelling arguments that the bubble championship was as hard, if not harder to win in certain respects.

Starting point is 00:02:13 Whatever. My point is, as we've, the more time that has passed between 2010, the second of the Kobe Powell Championships and 2026, where we are now, there's one championship under very, specific circumstances and a lot of time that has felt like the rest of the league and a lot of franchises have caught up to the Lakers in terms of advantages that it felt like this franchise always had a hammer lock on. So you can just look at the recent history and recognize why they have they haven't been as successful as the heydays. And to be clear, five championships in the 80s, five championships in the 2000, that can't be the standard because that's simply.

Starting point is 00:03:13 Well, it's also, it's also an era where that level of sustained success is much, much, much harder to maintain. I just meant like the overall count. Like that's an awful lot by any standard. But the point being, the Lakers have felt in a lot of ways like they have been lagging behind And while it's not the only reason they have that it's felt like they've been lagging behind one of those reasons was just frankly a lack of modern thinking modern money modern everything. From the story, one of the sort of interesting quotes you get in there is just about this idea of them being antiquated.

Starting point is 00:03:59 You know, people talking to a Dodgers source. It just says, you know, everybody kind of understands that that's what this team is, that they are a little bit antiquated. They're an antiquated franchise and getting in there and trying to fix it. You know, Friedman knows Andrew Friedman, who is consulting with the Dodgers, knows of the Lakers are pretty antiquated in their ways. That's the quote from this associate of consulting with the Lakers. He is definitely not getting accepted.

Starting point is 00:04:28 The Dodgers, yes. If I ever say, if I keep saying Dodgers, just assume I mean the Lakers. What he really wants to do is layer up the stuff that they do with the Dodgers so that they can better harness the basketball IQ that's in the building. The natural place to look here because, you know, the basketball IQ that's in the building, there aren't that many basketball people. You're essentially talking about Rob. And what I find fascinating about this whole setup is that. Well, and by the way, really quick, and I don't mean this, I don't mean this as either shade or snide. I just think it actually matters because he's been part of reportedly the hiring process of more people.

Starting point is 00:05:08 Kurt. It's Robin Kurt. Like Rob, Kurt is still a voice. And it, well, and it matters because there has been so few voices. Right. But, you know, my, when you look at Rob and all this, like, for a long time, Mitch Cupcheck, for example, was a very good GM. I think that's a fair evaluation. But like in his last, I believe his last stint was in Charlotte.

Starting point is 00:05:40 I don't think he got hired somewhere after that. Was he briefly in Atlanta? I forget. But like I think Charlotte was the last one. It kind of felt like, okay, you know what? Mitch's time has passed a little bit. He felt like an antiquated GM. Rob isn't that.

Starting point is 00:06:00 Rob's been around a while. has been operating in the sort of in the operation of an antiquated franchise, but I don't think Rob Polinka himself is an antiquated thinker. What I find interesting is that I think

Starting point is 00:06:15 based on what? Because I think he is open to more sort of modern organizational structures, modern business thinking, modern things like that. I think he uses a lot of big ass words and Silicon Valley speak. I I didn't say he was good at it.

Starting point is 00:06:33 I said, no, no, no, but I'm saying as evidenced by the way, I'll say this, I don't think his approach to roster building and his approach to fully evaluating talent reflects anything modern at all. Well, I, but let me, I'll say this. I think part of what the reasoning that, you know, what I think Rob is done, though, has been for his own, he's very willing to work. and take advantage of the antiquated nature of the Lakers in ways that consolidate his own power, that consolidate his own influence, that make him fairly bulletproof inside of the organization,

Starting point is 00:07:16 at least under Genie. So he used that to his advantage. But, you know, I think the, you know, there are ways that the Lakers have operated, you know, had they, I'll put it this way. He built a team that won a title. I 1,000% firmly believe that had the Anthony Davis not got hurt the year after, at the very least, they reach another final. And then the catastrophic failure of the Russell Westbrook trade,

Starting point is 00:07:49 which is sort of the original sin from which this franchise is still unpacking itself. I heard somebody mentioned too, like even, you know, Jared Vander, there's a direct line between Jared Vanderbilt's extension and, you know, the, the, the, the Rust deal, like all of these things grow from that. And so what I am looking forward to seeing what Rob does, how he behaves and all of these things when given more infrastructure to work with, more resources, more of a lot of things. because on the one hand, it should allow him to do his job better. But on the other hand, it means he's going to be held to a much higher standard

Starting point is 00:08:37 and that overall his security in that role goes down. This is what I would say regarding Rob and modernity. You may be correct that he is a more modern thinker than if nothing else I'm giving him credit for, but I don't think the evidence is there at all. Like in terms of his overall body of work, even the championship roster, that was not his first choice. And that was not his first approach.

Starting point is 00:09:05 His first approach was the old-fashioned three star bill. And then Kauai Leonard fell through. And Rob, to his credit, scrambled well. Like, you know, he had Danny Green sort of in his hip pocket, which was very unusual circumstances because Danny Green happened to also be waiting for Kauai Leonard to make his, decision because it was going to affect what what Danny ultimately did and credit to Rob for

Starting point is 00:09:29 having the foresight to stay in contact and stuff like that but Rob's original approach was much more of the old-fashioned star effery that we've seen from this organization and again I think Rob projects modernity with his language a lot more sure I will too is in his defense though I you know he was newer than than he is now he had less experience than he is now And I think over time, you know, the understanding of those kinds, he's better at his, he's better, he's a better understanding of the job if even if the execution isn't always there. I agree with you a lot of it. He talks much, you know, much more modern way. But I also think if you look at it, it's very difficult, I think, to separate to, you know, what he would believe and what he would do if. not operating within the constraints that Jeannie put him in. I just think broadly speaking, I don't find him to be a sort of pre-modern person

Starting point is 00:10:32 in the terms of the way you think about organizational structures, which is critical for thinking about how the Dodgers operate, and that's where I want to go next. Because one of the first things I would change if I was the Dodgers, and I'll explain why, is how they talk about the yearly goal of winning a title. And I'll get to that next. Locked on Lakers is brought to you by Quo.

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Starting point is 00:13:25 towards what I think is a more modern, current approach to roster building, but I've made this point before. I don't want to stop you. Does he have an alternative? Like, what do you mean by that? Because a sort of rebuild through the draft, acquire assets, all that kind of stuff.

Starting point is 00:13:46 Right. So that's not an option. So when you say a more modern way of doing it, what do you mean? Care about your supporting cast, actually invest in them, be willing to give, deals longer, you know, than three or so years to players who could be the eighth or ninth men on the roster.

Starting point is 00:14:03 He gave one to Jared Vanderbilt. Right. But that has been in a lot of ways more exception than rule. But regardless, I think these are the type of areas where Rob is going to need to care about more, pay more attention to the details. We both said, I thought he did a good job this offseason in terms of working within those. parameters in the way he used the buyout market, I think pretty sabbily for Marcus Smart and DeAndre Aiton. But those also, again, represented short-term commitments. If you're looking to try to build out rosters that are going to compete with the best teams in the NBA,

Starting point is 00:14:49 part of that is going to be giving yourself a runway. And part of giving yourself a runway is giving commitment. So I'm not even talking about purely the Lakers approach, you know, 5,000 foot view the way they're in win now mode constantly versus a team willing to build through the draft. I'm talking about the things that you value. I'm talking about, you know, placing as much importance on certain positions as you do scoring combo guards, like all of that stuff. I think there are elements that Rob needs to demonstrate. he's more in step with the modern NBA. But I also think that this new setup gives Rob the opportunity to become the best

Starting point is 00:15:34 version of himself if he leans into it because he's going to have more resources, more people to bounce ideas off. And I don't think Rob is without basketball knowledge altogether. He's been around the game forever. He played at Michigan. Like that's a high level. He's been an agent for a long time. And like he understands a lot of the mechanics of all of this.

Starting point is 00:15:59 I just feel like there are, and maybe this is a function of the old bosses and sort of the old Laker way, I have always felt like there's been a lot that's been limited in his approach. So I think there's a way that can become more expansive that to me would reflect a more modern approach to doing it. Yep. And I think that's pretty much fair. And I'm just, I'm going to be fascinated by that push pull between the opportunity you talk about to be the best version of himself and the vulnerability that comes with it because Rob has, I think, generally speaking, I think has always favored self-preservation over, you know, over anything else. And so we'll see how that goes. I mean, one of the things that stuck out to me in this story, the Dodgers for a little while employed a guy named Alex Anthopoulos.

Starting point is 00:17:02 He had been the GM in Toronto. He, I think he was there for like six or seven years. And then he came to the Lakers. I'm sorry, the Dodgers. This is too confusing for me. Came to the Dodgers, spent a couple years there. It's that confusing. I didn't say confusing to other people.

Starting point is 00:17:18 I said it's confusing to me. I'm not dragging other people into my problem. So Alex Anthopoulos joins the Dodgers front office for a couple of years at a time when they are basically like collecting GMs and assistant GMs and, you know, consultants and all these other things basically like Pokemon cards. They're just gathering them all up, putting them in a room and having them be really smart. And Anthopoulos was asked in the story about by Yaron Weitzman, about, you know, what makes Andrew Friedman and at the time, far anxiety, so good. But like, really, what makes Andrew Friedman so good at this? And he couldn't really come up with specific examples, but he said this. It's just the way that they look at things organizationally, the way they process things, the instincts and the people skills they have, the way they work through decisions.

Starting point is 00:18:17 it doesn't matter if it's a conversation about life or a free agent signing. Another baseball executive says they're known for taking care of players and being able to get the most out of them. The giant contracts obviously play a role, but the way Andrew and his department are able to help players get the best out of themselves becomes a major recruiting tool. It goes on to talk about the way that they want the Dodgers to be a place that everybody wants to come to and nobody wants to leave where they have the best support system, the best thing. and, by the way, if you come to the Dodgers, not only will you be rewarded financially, you'll also win. Ultimately, and I think this might sound controversial

Starting point is 00:18:55 to some Lakers fans, I think the Dodgers, I think the Lakers need to stop every year when we show up to training camp and all this stuff saying, our goal every year is to win a title. I think that is a misplaced way to state things. I think the way the Dodgers do it. I don't think Andrew Friedman says every day, I'm waking up, our goal is to win the World Series. I think Andrew Friedman from a process standpoint

Starting point is 00:19:27 says, I am going to every day wake up and think, what can I do to make the Dodgers the best organization in baseball? What is it that we can do with the farm system, with how we treat players, what we do with our payroll, who we stock in the football? What we stock in the farm system? What is it? front office, how we run our medical staff, what makes us the best organization in baseball. That's a goal. The reason I say this is because that's something you can control. Waking up every day and saying, our goal is to win a championship. Okay.

Starting point is 00:20:00 You have less control over that. What does that mean? I think the Dodgers approach it differently. And the result of that, and this is sort of modern organizational thinking, the result of that, the byproduct of that is that you win every flipping year. Well, yeah, they obviously, I mean, at this point, the Dodgers, I don't even know how much they have to state that the goal is to win a championship because you just look at their roster and it's very clear what the goal is.

Starting point is 00:20:32 But when we come back, we can talk about it more. The process piece of this, it's, you mentioned about how it's related to, you know, developing players and taking. taking care of players and how players around the league see your organization and what it can do for you. You know, there's a detail in your own piece about how we mentioned during Rob and JJ's exit interview that they are bringing in, among other things, you know, biomechanics and stuff like that to help modernize the Lakers, you know, training staff. Biomechanics lab, a movement lab, and recovery lab, I believe are the trifecta of Lakers and stuff. labs that we'll see next year. Austin Reeves, for example, rehabbed at the Dodgers facility because he was taking

Starting point is 00:21:24 advantage of, I believe, their biomechanics lab. Like, that was part of his rehabbing from the oblique injury because the Lakers, as presently constructed. And it is quite literally an issue of space. It's part of the reason G-League teams moving to Coachella. Like they don't have the space for all of this. They're going to have it now with the G League having their own entire facility. But essentially, AR rehabbed like on loan from the Dodgers and, you know, nice friends to have in high places.

Starting point is 00:21:59 But all of those things matter. But talk about when we get back, I also think, too, it gets back to how you're even trying to win a championship as your goal. So talking about that next. You ever watch a game and think, man, those fans are probably going crazy right now. On Reddit, you're plugged into millions of fans who are just as hopeful, dramatic, analytical, and loyal as you are. Reddit is the app for authentic conversations about anything and everything. I cover the Dallas Mavericks, and as soon as Cooper Flagg hard launched with his girlfriend, I went straight to the Mavericks subreddit because I had to see exactly what Mavs fans are thinking and saying about that.

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Starting point is 00:22:59 because they're just niche and specific enough that only certain people care about it, and that's probably you. Reddit is where the real fans hang out. Download the Reddit app and dive into your favorite team or the Dallas Mavericks for hot takes, fresh memes, and a group chat that literally never sleeps. Download the Reddit app today. So like we were talking about before, like the Lakers can have that goal of winning a championship every year. Like that's the standard that they hold themselves against, look to meet, however you want to put this.

Starting point is 00:23:33 Like they, they, I think were measured in the way they talked about this season in terms of being successful given the context of all of the injuries, including during the playoffs. and I think it's healthy for them to have that context. It's like if they want to say a championship is the goal every year, to some degree, fine, whatever. It's what half to two thirds of the lead says every year. Like in some respects, it's very boilerplate stuff. To me, though, what matters is how are you going about trying to win that championship? No, for sure.

Starting point is 00:24:10 What is the process of doing this? And this organization has needed to be more expansive in the way they think, more detail-oriented, more of a longer-term vision with a plan. Like Andrew Freeman said in this piece, it's easy to just say the goal is to win a championship. But one of the issues I've had with the Lakers is they don't always feel like they are actively trying to move closer to that goal. or that they're willing to give themselves patience and a plan towards winning that goal. It feels like this is one of the traps to always being in, quote, win now mode. You put yourself in this place where every year it's about getting yourself closer to winning a title or putting together the roster that makes you closest to winning a title that year.

Starting point is 00:25:06 Even if in reality, you're not actually that close. So what you're really doing is cosplaying contention as opposed to actually taking steps towards a larger plan where it feels like you are moving closer towards winning a championship. And I feel like there needs to be just

Starting point is 00:25:29 more people in that building who can think of sort of like a grand vision. And part of that vision is how are we creating a culture and a program and an identity. So players around the league know what they're joining. So they can easily picture themselves as part of this team because they know what the team is. And again, that requires some degree of patience

Starting point is 00:25:55 and not just we're going to grab whatever we can every year that puts us like, I don't know, a six and a half or a seven on a scale of one to ten towards really being close to win a championship. and this approach is sort of a treadmill of six and a half or seven. Well, I mean, I agree with you to some extent. I mean, I think actually other than Westbrook, which, you know, was the swing of all swings. They actually haven't been particularly aggressive.

Starting point is 00:26:23 The last three or four years, they've done basically nothing but kind of kick the can down the road a little bit. So, I mean, I don't think they've, you know, sort of gone for it every year and this and that. And I think fans should gird, themselves for the prospect of this offseason being another version of that. Because while the Lakers might be poised to make a big move, Andy, maybe if they're even ready to do it, I actually don't think there's a lot, I think there's less flexibility for that kind

Starting point is 00:26:55 of thing. But part of the really quick, part of what I'm talking about, though, is some of those years, they weren't even willing to take, say, a step backwards in order to maybe put themselves in a better position to move forward. Part of the cost playing was we have to look like we're always in championship mode, even if we're not aggressive. We can't ever look like we're moving backwards, but sometimes that can be at the expense of actually moving forward.

Starting point is 00:27:23 I don't disagree about that in principle. I just think, you know, the Lakers have been in situations where, you know, you have LeBron James, you have Anthony Davis, you have, especially with LeBron, like you've, you know, nobody thought this is going to be like an eight-year or nine-year experiment. They thought it was like a four-year thing. You know, a certain level of aggression, I think, was required and expected. And, you know, I think just generally speaking, your broader point of, you know,

Starting point is 00:27:51 there has always been an organizational unwillingness to truly rebuild and to call it that, I think is true. But, you know, the stability question, that's something that we, I know we touched on earlier in the week. that I think is really critical because part of the reason that there hasn't been a culture, part of the reason that there hasn't been a sort of unifying theme around this team is in part because they've changed coaches every two and a half years. And so that becomes a problem. You know, the JJ Reddick thing, I think if Rob were to flame out in the next year or two,

Starting point is 00:28:32 I actually think this would be one of those situations where the, new GM would not necessarily fire the coach, which is a pretty common thing to happen. I think JJ probably would survive that unless something changes about his trajectory. Because I think ultimately people would look at it as by people, I mean Mark Walter, would look at this and say, this is an executive problem, not a coach problem. But the Lakers, this is why these choices are so important, why, you know, Lakers fans should want Rob to work out or for Mark Walter to fix it very quickly if he feels like he's not. Because the common theme of teams like Oklahoma City of San Antonio is stability in management

Starting point is 00:29:23 and culture that is developed over a long period of time. The Dodgers weren't the Dodgers the minute Mark Walter took over the team. They weren't even the Dodgers the minute Andrew Friedman took over the team, which is a couple years into it. Ned Coletti ran the thing for a couple years. Dodgers got good. They were pretty good anyway. They got really good pretty quickly.

Starting point is 00:29:45 But in terms of what we think of as this Dodgers model, that took time. And it's going to take time for the Lakers to do it. It's not going to look the same because the mechanisms for team building aren't the same doesn't operate in the same way. You can't get players in the same way. can't but and this is you know part of the story noted that like they're not taking

Starting point is 00:30:07 Andrew Friedman and dropping him into you know El Segundo and being like hey fix the Lakers what they're doing is transferring the the best practices of organizational management because those things do apply and then it's up to the people who are in charge of basketball who you hope are the smartest people. And I think this is, you know, we'll see who they hire. We'll see who they bring in. We'll see, is there a first wave, a second wave, a third wave? Does it go to the scouting department?

Starting point is 00:30:44 Does it go to over, do they develop an overseas office? Do they, you know, do they have a robust presence in South America? Like, you know, all of these things. How do they get built out over time? Along those lines really quick, the Lakers, in this piece at Yahoo. They offered, according to multiple league sources that told Yarned Weitzman,

Starting point is 00:31:07 they offered Steve Sr. and assistant GM for the wolves, the job of the executive VP of basketball ops. So basically right underneath, it would seem, Polinka. He turned that down and how much there is to read into an exec turning down a chance to join the Lakers at a higher title. I think really where you read into it is how much trouble we learn that they have or don't have filling roles moving forward.

Starting point is 00:31:36 I mean, he may have made this decision. My family wants to stay in Minnesota. I'm staying in Minnesota. It can be something like that. There also could be some concerns of, you know, this is a brand new front office build. Who knows exactly how it's going to run. You could feel like he's in line to be able to take over reasonably sooner get promoted in Minnesota. That's where there's all kinds of things.

Starting point is 00:31:59 here. But, you know, I get a sense that this organizational realignment is going to happen. I think a lot of people thought it, everybody thought it was going to happen. I think a lot of people thought it would happen reasonably quickly, but I think it's going to happen even faster than that. And not fast enough to change how the Lakers operate this off-season, but fast enough that it's going to, I think, take hold and start to have an influence in what the Lakers do pretty quickly. I mean, I just, you know, I think, you know, the reality of the Lakers situation of finally sort of keeping your powder dry, as they say, and finally feeling like you have at least a modicum of flexibility, ran into the wrong offseason.

Starting point is 00:32:55 Like, sometimes you get the number one pick or the number three pick or the number five pick in a draft where they're like 10 great players. And sometimes you get the number one pick and there isn't an all-star to be found. Like, and it just sucks. You can't predict those things. You can't time them. The Lakers are, I think, the victims of poor timing here, which is a little out of their control. So how do they, what does improvement look like?

Starting point is 00:33:28 How do they start? Does Rob start changing his language about how he talks about these things? Because he's pointed to this offseason as the one, this is the off season. And so he's set the bar. And if he doesn't meet it, I wonder how much that could provide an opening for Mark Walter, if he's unhappy with the results to move off of Rob, or if it seems like he's kind of buying into the model and doing good work, if that helps him in the eyes of new ownership. Here's something people need to remember.

Starting point is 00:34:05 Mark Walter was a minority owner of this team before he eventually became majority owner. I would find it shocking, especially considering he had contractually ripe of first refusal in terms of if the bus family ever decided to sell, they would go to Mark Walter and his group first. And he's known about this for a while. And he had right of first refusal for a reason. I would be stunned if he had not been paying a lot of attention to the interworkings of this organization anyway, which obviously includes Rob Polinka, meaning I'm sure he has some formed opinions of, I mean, both informed and formed opinions of Rob Polinka as an exec.

Starting point is 00:34:53 So to some degree, I think this is going to be watching a guy more closely and also now being the one that calls the shots. But I imagine there is some degree of, okay, I think I know what to expect, positively or negatively, prove me right or wrong. Yep, I agree. In the meantime, we'll see how the Lakers, you know, for a crown jewel franchise, they have not been the best franchise in the NBA. They have not had the money to be the best franchise in the NBA. Now they have the money and they are owned by a guy who, you know, has shown that model to work. the player like you mentioned that quote that was in the Yahoo story it's actually an Andrew Friedman quote from that he gave the Sports Illustrated relatively recently but you know when he says you know it's easy to set the goal to win a championship we feel like creating

Starting point is 00:35:55 a culture not only attracts and retains star level players but helps get the most out of their ability like you can see where their focus is and you know it sounds like a small thing sort of organizational gobbledygook, but I really don't think it is. And so how does this influence translate to the way the Lakers operate and the way that Rob talks and the way that other executives talk and how people are trying to shape this organization? We're going to start to see that this summer. Lockdown Lakers on YouTube is where you can go hang out with over 38,000 subscribers. Make sure you check out the everydayer club, Lockdownlakers.

Starting point is 00:36:36 dot supercast.com. Five bucks a month, 50 bucks a year, see if it's for you. No ads. A lot of people don't like those commercials, Andy. So you can get rid of that. We'll see everyone next time.

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - How Mark Walter Plans to Modernize the Lakers, and How Rob Pelinka Might React

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