Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Is LeBron James "Stat Padding?" What Does His Role Look Like at (Almost) 41-Years Old?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, everyone, welcome to Locked on Lakers for Wednesday. Brian Komenetsky, Andy Kaminetsky is LeBron James stat padding. One former NBA player says, yes. We'll break it down next. You are Locked on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for making Locked on Lakers.

Starting point is 00:00:32 First listen to every day, Monday through Friday, no matter how where you get your podcast, this one's always going to be. free. We're never putting it behind a paywall, certainly not during the holiday season. Locked on Lakers on YouTube is where over 37,000 subscribers are all hanging out, talking to each other, talking to us, and participating, Andy, in the single biggest sports podcast network in this or any other universe that we certainly know about. Thank you for helping make us number one and Locked on Lakers one of. And this is no lie, one of the biggest shows on the biggest network. So we certainly appreciate all of your support, plenty to cover in this episode as the Lakers get close to starting a critical three-game road trip before they get back to NBA Cup play.

Starting point is 00:01:18 It starts Thursday in Toronto against this scrappy and pretty, you know, Raptors team is doing pretty well. But we're going to talk about LeBron, Andy, because there have been accusations about LeBron and his. motives and what he's up to. And those accusations, at least to me, do get into a larger conversation about what exactly his role is on this team. Yeah, on the run it back TV show with Michelle Beatle and Lou Williams and Chandler Parsons, Chandler Parsons, in talking about the Phoenix loss and also LeBron maintaining the double-digit scoring streak that goes back to not a typo, 2000. I was about to say birth. To put this in perspective before we get into the quote and the conversation,

Starting point is 00:02:13 this streak began when George W. Bush was still president. Like that's how freaking long this thing goes back. That is honestly nuts. But anyway, he was talking about this and said, quote, I didn't like it, talking about LeBron pursuing the life of the streak and also the way he played in the game in general. the first time in my life, I saw an older LeBron James who played and looked like his age. LeBron, he did not look like himself, which is for me the first time I've ever seen him like

Starting point is 00:02:44 that. So it was a nice gesture for JJ to keep him in there and he was definitely hunting for it, being the 10 points to keep the streak alive. He was not coming out until he got it. This just felt like the first step on the way out and kind of catering to his legacy as opposed to focusing on the season and the game that was already over. Congrats, I guess, but honestly, I didn't love it. It was just obvious. what he was doing. And just as a reminder, this was the Sunday, Monday's loss to Phoenix.

Starting point is 00:03:11 LeBron had four points a half time, I believe. Yes. And had to hustle in the fourth quarter, even with the game more or less out of reach. In a game, he might have otherwise. No, not more or less, definitely. The way he was playing. He was playing while it wasn't and then stayed in a little,

Starting point is 00:03:29 certainly a little longer than he otherwise probably would have if he had, say, 23 points. before being removed from the game after he got the 10 points he needed. Right. And look, I think there is an interesting discussion to be had from this, even though I think in some ways Chandler Parsons, who it should be just noted, he has become in the media space,

Starting point is 00:03:53 I think a hot take artist and this stuff is in that wheelhouse, do with that info what you will, but he likes these sort of attention-grabbing takes. But I think he landed on something interesting, even though I don't think he necessarily meant to land on what actually is interesting. Like, there is no question. LeBron was on the floor during this, as you said, out of reach game. Like, after the Lakers had completely bleep the bed, they were down by double digits. They were outplayed on both ends of the floor just dramatically.

Starting point is 00:04:32 He was out there to maintain that streak. Like, that's just plainly obvious. If you claim anything else, you are just gaslighting people. Like, he checked out right after he hit the 10 points. And, you know, there are going to be people who debate the, I guess, the significance or even the dignity of this sort of streak. If it's being maintained and achieved by any means necessary, like, so it's clear, I don't at least thus far the way it's been maintained.

Starting point is 00:05:02 I don't have an issue with it. But if somebody else does for those reasons, I'd be lying if I said I don't get why, even though, again, I don't agree. Well, yeah, go ahead and finish your thought. But what I think, though, is needs to be remembered. And I think Chandler Parsons glossed over this is LeBron did not disrupt anything in the way he was going about doing this.

Starting point is 00:05:29 The game was completely like, in hand. for Phoenix at that point. He was not gunning the offense out of what they were looking to do in order to get his 10 points. Like there was nothing other than if you think LeBron simply should have been sitting because he's pushing 41 and you're thinking big picture, there was nothing small or big picture being disrupted. He was going for the streak, sort of the story within the game.

Starting point is 00:05:59 So regardless of what you think of how he's going about. doing this or how much it matters to him. The idea that somehow he was putting his legacy above the game and the goals of the season, at least in this context, with this example, is ridiculous. I mean, it's just happening false. I look at it this way. A couple of, sort of a couple things. First, you are correct. It was actually specifically because the game was the type of game that it was, that he's not really stat patting and he's not, He's certainly not interfering with the team. And of all, I mean, it's a really cool streak and it's really fun and it's kind of amazing.

Starting point is 00:06:41 It will probably end at some point, but, you know, maybe not. You know, it just keeps going. And I totally understand why LeBron wants to preserve it. 100% get it. And don't have a problem with it. I also think it's about 29th probably on the list of things that are legacy. defining for LeBron James. Most people, I think most basketball fans, if they're aware of it, are kind of, I think,

Starting point is 00:07:11 sort of in the background, vaguely aware of this streak. But I don't think it's not like front and center. It's not Cal Ripkin's consecutive game streak that defined in a lot of ways who Cal Ripkin was as a player. But I think, you know, to me, the, the Chandler Parsons thing is, interesting, not for the stat padding part, but for the first part of it. It's actually also not stat padding really quick because the 10 points he got actually brought his numbers down. It's actually the opposite of what we define is stat padding. He means stat padding

Starting point is 00:07:47 just in, in stat padding relative to this one. But the reason the phrase matters is stat padding is associated with greediness on some level on the court like Ricky Davis. He's misusing the term, whether consciously or probably, probably consciously or maybe unconsciously. But it matters. He's misusing the term in a way that he knows is going to get people's attention because people have been accusing LeBron of stat padding for years. And so again, I think the distinction matters. Sure. But like I think to me the part that's really interesting and that I know Lakers fans are debating is the first part of it, which is this is the first time of my life. I saw an older LeBron James who played and looked like his age. And, you know, we've talked about it a little bit

Starting point is 00:08:35 over the course of this week, certainly in the five games that LeBron has played since coming back from, you know, missing the first 14 games, was it, with Sciatica? 14. And, you know, hasn't, he's had stretches for two, three, four minutes at a time where he looked really good. But over the course of games, it has been up and down. And, you know, Monday, for example, was just not just even bad. It was invisible. It was a game that you just don't, didn't realize LeBron was even playing it, which is strange, you know, to say the least. But it's just, you know, I want to let, you know, it's the part about aging that I think is really worth the larger conversation. And I do want to mention before we go to break, I forgot to mention at the top that Lock,

Starting point is 00:09:41 you know, today's show is brought to you by Game Time, download the Game Time app, create an account, use the code, lock an MBA for $20 off your first purchase. But after the break, I want to get into this question of Father time and whether or not, you know, LeBron James finally has been hit by the old guy truck. So we'll do that next. Locked on Lakers, as now clearly established, is brought to you by game time. And the World Cup is coming back to North America for the first time since 1994, not when LeBron's 10-point streak began, although it feels that way.

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Starting point is 00:11:20 Use the code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, download that app, make an account, use the code, locked on NBA for 20 bucks off, swipe, tap, ticket, go. We'll try by the way to get to, if we don't do it today, we will definitely do it tomorrow. Rui Hachamura had some really interesting comments following the loss on Monday about touches, specifically that he didn't touch the ball at all. May I really quickly set the stage for this, even if we don't get to it,

Starting point is 00:11:59 just because I had told our listeners. You may, you may, it's the show's half yours, Andy. You may do whatever you want within reason. The reason I want to do this is just because I had said that we were talking about Rui only having one shot in this game, zero rebounds, total unimvolvement, that I was predicting his touches and usage for the game would be insanely low. those numbers came out on Tuesday, looked them up, 23 minutes. Rui had 16 touches.

Starting point is 00:12:36 It's the same amount of touch. He touched the ball 16 times in 23 minutes. It's insanely low. It's the same amount of touches that Jackson Hay has had in nine fewer minutes. His usage for the game, 1.7 in the first quarter. Sounds like your GPA, Andy. That's a little higher. But in the first quarter, he had a zero usage rate.

Starting point is 00:13:06 Like, I'm not kidding. He was like your appendix. Not doing anything. He's there. It's part of your body, but it's not doing anything. In the meantime, Luca's usage in the first quarter was a ridiculous 50. And for the game, a pretty ridiculous 48.7. So the two combined for a 25 usage rate.

Starting point is 00:13:29 But it's perfectly normal. It's part of a larger. Rui's comments are part of a larger conversation just about the way the Lakers' offense is operating, particularly in first quarter. So we'll definitely try to get to before the end of the show, but certainly tomorrow ahead of the Toronto game. So the aging thing with LeBron. There are a lot of people, and I'm putting you in this group,

Starting point is 00:13:51 but there are a lot of people who are not only, you know, kind of want LeBron to be, you know, who are ready for LeBron to finally lose the battle to Father time. For some of them, it's because they've been saying it's coming for like five or six or seven years now. And it's like you just eventually want to be right. People have been looking for this for a while. There are some people don't like LeBron who, you know,

Starting point is 00:14:21 like I said, the people who do think he's been stat patting or, is overpaid or is held back to Lakers, whatever it is, who just want them to finally lose battle because they don't like the guy. It is interesting, though, like Monday's game looked like sort of what you would picture old man, not, you know, LeBron James, who no longer has it, what that might look like. And the question is, is that what is in store for the Lakers over the course of this year? Or are there, is the context here such that, you know, perhaps people might want to slow the role. I have my thoughts.

Starting point is 00:15:12 I'm sure you have yours. Would you like to go first? I could go either way. I mean, the first thing I would say that getting back to the idea of the stat patting and the streak, because I think it's actually connected to the question that you just raised, for me, the larger point isn't that LeBron was clearly, and again, I don't have an issue with it, dead set on keeping the streak alive. It's that it actually required work to do. That's actually the story, because the only way.

Starting point is 00:15:46 that you maintain this type of streak since again, George W. Bush was the flipping president, although second term. I don't want to make this sound longer than it. It's like you're trying, you're saying like it's impressive. It's not like you're talking like George H.W. Bush was president. Like that would be really impressive. I think the only thing that prevented that is LeBron was not born. No, I don't know. Actually, he was not born. He was actually not born. Was he? I don't know. It doesn't matter. I don't want to get sidetracked. 84, yes, he was born. He was born. He was a little, little kid. But the biggest issue actually is that it took effort because the only reason you can maintain a streak this long is because the overwhelming majority of it hitting double digits you do rolling out of bed. It is effortless. And it gets back to the thing I've talked about over the last few years with LeBron and age. And to me, the single biggest piece of evidence that age is catching up to LeBron, it's not in the numbers,

Starting point is 00:16:53 it's not in the fact that he has to sometimes take defensive possessions off, it's not even injury, it's none of that. It's that it doesn't look easy for him anymore because the majority of LeBron's career, man, he made this stuff, made dominance look easy. I agree with that. There's certainly, you know, a big shift in the aesthetics of what it looks like when LeBron So this, I think the point you're making is, is fair and applies broadly across, you know, just watching LeBron play. I will say this, though, we did spend a little bit of last season having this conversation. LeBron got off to a relative to, for him, slower start. He was at, you know, down around 20 points a game.

Starting point is 00:17:43 He, you know, was sort of struggled with his shot a little bit early and stuff like that. And by my December, he was averaging 25 points a game, you know, with like eight rebounds and, you know, seven rebounds and eight assists. And by February, in February, he averaged 29 a game, you know, and went nuclear. I, that was LeBron with training camp. and it makes a big difference when you have training camp and you go in and you do your stuff, you got, you know, that's a huge deal. This year, LeBron not only didn't have training camp, and I'm sure Andy will be back here in a moment, not only did LeBron not have training camp.

Starting point is 00:18:32 He didn't have a lot of his lead up to training camp. He missed a lot of the ramp up because of the sciatica, kept him from doing his normal routine before he got to his training camp routine. And I think, you know, any of us, you know, I'll use golf as an example, any of us who have been golfers over the course of our lives, like, I can still, I don't, I don't score like I used to because I don't play enough, but like I can still hit the ball. I can still hit the ball reasonably far. I haven't had to like, you know, start clubbing up. But like, it's basically the same.

Starting point is 00:19:08 What is very different from me at age 25 playing golf. Back in the day, I could park the car, go to the first tee and swing a golf club. I cannot do that anymore 25 years later. I need time to warm up. I need time to stretch. I need time to get some practice swings in. When I'm done, I need to put a little ice on. I need to like, there's, and that's what LeBron is like where LeBron is at.

Starting point is 00:19:36 he can't roll out of bed and just go do it anymore like he used to. It takes time. It takes effort. It takes it. And so I think people are overlooking the lack of training camp and especially the lack of preparation he was able to do for training camp when they're looking at these five games or so. it's for me going to be another month before I start looking at it and say, you know, if we're getting a lot of these games in December, late December, January,

Starting point is 00:20:16 my radar, you know, my antenna will go up with a lot more intensity. Right now, I just look at this as a guy who's pushing 41, who's kind of stretching on the job. Let's get more into this when we come back. I don't think that your take on this is unreasonable. And the truth is none of us exactly know what's going on with LeBron. It's all speculative to some degree. But when we come back, I do have concerns that you're putting a bit too glass half full of a take on this.

Starting point is 00:20:58 And also want to get into why, if it really. really is a month like you're predicting. That's a serious problem for this. Well, and plus either way, they've got to figure out what he's doing on this. That's where I'm going. Part of this. That's where I'm going with this. So we'll get into it all coming up next.

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Starting point is 00:22:21 Like LeBron playing this long with, if nothing else, the type of responsibility that he had just last season, there is no comparison that we can even try to make against it. So in that sense, I think everybody, including LeBron, is learning information in real time. That being said, even acknowledging the part about having missed training camp, which I think is very real, the fact that he is by his own admission, working his way back into game shape, into a flow. I'm sure there's even still building up body, all that sort of stuff. and those things all have to be accounted for. And you are correct that the start that he had last year wasn't necessarily slow, but it certainly wasn't dominant.

Starting point is 00:23:16 And it didn't great. It wasn't great. But I mean, it led to, it got worse as things went along and eventually led to LeBron needing to take those couple weeks off from the team. This is even worse than that so far. In terms of the overall production, the overall presence, even I think, acknowledging all of those very real contextual caveats that you brought up. I think those are all real.

Starting point is 00:23:42 I still think, though, this is more stark. Yeah, it absolutely is. And it's also stark in ways that feel like, as I always talk about, there will come a point in every great athlete's career. And even somebody like LeBron, who's been blessed with some of the, the greatest just physicality in the history of sports. And for the most of his career, incredible health. There comes a point where every athlete's body just stops cooperating.

Starting point is 00:24:18 And, you know, when LeBron was asked about after the Phoenix loss, not playing in the both ends of the back to back. And he basically said, man, getting old. Like the reason is old. I am wondering how much LeBron is actually recognized. recognizing that we're reaching a place where the body really is not cooperating in ways that it was before, that he can't offset, work through things like that. We'll see. You are correct that more time is required. There's more time left in the season. But in the meantime, though, and I think this is also a

Starting point is 00:24:57 part of why LeBron so far has not really been able to, other than maybe I'd say about 15, 18 combined to minutes that he's played this year really made his mark in the games that he's playing. Increasingly, over the five games he's been available, I think his role has become more and more unclear, like what he's actually supposed to be doing. And I don't know if that's because they're still trying to figure out the dynamic between him and Austin and Luca and LeBron being in a place where, you know, he's never been, I want to say, He's never been like the third option, third best player, however you want to put that, which for the time being, at best, that's where he's at.

Starting point is 00:25:42 Maybe he starts looking more like himself, surpasses Austin. Like, who knows? But for the time being, that's where he's at. He's never done anything like that before. There's also the question of how much is, how much are the age and physical issues preventing them from landing on the role that they want for LeBron? because they still can't quite figure out what he can do and how to work that into what they're doing.

Starting point is 00:26:09 I don't know the answers. But what we're seeing right now, especially considering the first game back, there was a lot of fun in that fourth quarter, and there were times where LeBron looked like he was having a blast being back out there. It's looking increasingly less fun and more like a trudge for him. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:26:29 He looked like he was having fun against the clippers. You know, it's like, it's just, it's, some of this is just aesthetic. It's, we're not used to, literally not used to seeing what this looks like when LeBron looks even kind of mortal. But I just, I think the role issue is also part of this because, you know, Rui, I don't know how many, did you happen to look up how many touches LeBron had in that first quarter? I can look it up right now. Yeah, I mean, it was lower than normal, I'm sure. you know, it's just the the usage for Luca impacts everyone.

Starting point is 00:27:06 I think LeBron is, to his credit, I would say, trying really hard to make sure there is no perception that LeBron is coming back in big footing, you know, Luca who's having, you know, an MVP caliber season or trying to, you know, pull rank on Austin Reeves, who is having an all-star caliber season, like, and all this stuff. So, I mean, I think that stuff is important. Really quick, they don't break it down by quarters, so I can't tell. Okay, but like what were his touches overall? Overall, 57, to put it in perspective, Austin had 69, Luca had 89. LeBron was third on the team. I imagine it was pretty backloaded, but who's to say? And it's all sure.

Starting point is 00:27:52 You're talking about a guy who's sort of been a point guard over, you know, over a lot of his career. So, you know, I say, I ask the questions just because it, they have not reached a point where consistently they're able to leverage the full capabilities of what LeBron is, is doing. You know, I don't think his legs are at his outside shot yet. And so the Lakers haven't been able to use LeBron as like a, like a weapon on the perimeter, which is, I think over the course of the season, something they really want to be. able to do. He has developed in one of their better outside shooters. And so, you know, become based on the roster and his own improvements as a three-point shooter, one of their best outside shooters. A lot of his success has come in mismatches down in the post, beating players

Starting point is 00:28:44 up the floor, using his body, using his physicality. So is he playing by the basket? Is he playing on the perimeter? Are you putting him at the elbow and using LeBron as a, as a, as a, as a, you know, kind of a pivot player or something like that. But you also don't want to take the handball out of Lucas's hands quite as much. So there's just a lot of feeling out that I think is still going on because they're probably doing a few things at once, which is accommodating a little bit of a different pecking order, but also maybe there are a few things that maybe you just, you know, don't want LeBron doing quite as much of. So you got to account for that.

Starting point is 00:29:23 He hasn't shot the ball well. so that changes your approach there. It's just to me, it's five games for a guy who didn't play in training camp. And it's just, if he were, there are guys who have come back. And I'm saying, you're right, it is very stark. His numbers are way down and all this stuff, stuff. But broadly, the important player comes back to a lineup, and it takes a minute to figure out what to do is not a brand new story.

Starting point is 00:29:59 So what I think is more important is, you know, I am, I think the truth about LeBron is going to be somewhere between, wow, still second team all NBA last year. I'm still second team all NBA last year and washed. I think there's a lot of space in between those and that's basically where LeBron will land in one way or another. but what they have to figure out is what does that mean for how he's used inside of an offense. And how do you take that skill set and maximize it? Because the guy, one thing he will be able to do is roll out of bed at age 75, stand on an NBA court,

Starting point is 00:30:48 and whip passes around that can be really effective. There's still a lot of ways to use him, even if he's not your true focal point offensively. And that's going to take time. I've actually on Lakers talk, my weekly ESPNLA 710 Lakers show, which by the way, Wednesday night, it'll be on 6 to 8 p.m. Pacific time. Sean Woodley, the host of Lockdown Raptors, is going to be on with me. We're going to preview Thursday's game against Toronto, which I think would be a very good, a very challenging game.

Starting point is 00:31:22 We'll, I'm sure, get into it more for the show heading into Thursday. I've got some questions about that. A little bit involves Jared Vanderbilt. But if you guys want to learn more about the Raptors, and also we're going to talk a little bit about just the East Coast in general, because this went from being a part of a road trip that before the season began, seemed like it was going to be kind of cake as far as East Coast road trips ago, and now it looks far more challenging.

Starting point is 00:31:50 But like you, I think there is space in between second team all NBA and washed. But I actually think that it is more fair right now to temper the expectations for LeBron. And I hope people can understand that's not the same thing as crapping on him or saying that he's a bad player or anything like that. It's trying to keep these expectations fair and realistic for everybody involved and also, I think, help people analyze what's happening with the team better because if LeBron is somewhere between that second all NBA and washed, there can still be a useful player in there, but it's a very different player. And I think in order to evaluate this fairly, we have to frame it that way, but I was going to say I've talked about before, I imagine in my head,

Starting point is 00:32:55 LeBron as kind of a offensively souped up, defensively souped down version of Draymond Green in the way that Draymond is so important for making that Golden State offense work. And with his playmaking and his understanding of where everybody's supposed to be and helping put everybody in the right places, LeBron can direct that traffic. while being still a better scoring version of Draymond. He can also in a lot of ways, I think, help quarterback elements of the defense without being as individually impactful as Draymond. So that's something that I've been thinking about, again,

Starting point is 00:33:34 we don't know exactly what it's going to be until LeBron is on the court longer and hopefully looking more, frankly, more physically healthy when he's out there. I think there's a good chance in six weeks we're looking at this going, yeah, brown looks pretty good. There is. I think there's a chance. I think there's also a chance that we could be looking at this in six weeks and saying, okay, we really have to recalibrate all expectations.

Starting point is 00:34:05 Unfortunately, I think it's gaslighting to not acknowledge that as a real possibility. Before we go, sad news for Laker fans, it was just announced today. day that Elton Campbell passed away. The new, the cause of death has not yet been released. Obviously, he was part of those 90s Lakers teams with Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones and Cedric Sebales and those teams that I think a lot of fans now look back with a little more affection, especially because eventually Kobe and Shaq brought some championships. Eldon played with Kobe and Shaq in the early part of that team up. He was an LA guy.

Starting point is 00:34:49 He played at Morningside High, which is where Byron Scott went as well. They were not playing at the same time. Byron's obviously older than Eldon, but Byron told the LA Times, quote, I just remember his demeanor. That's why we nicknamed him Easy E. He was just so cool, nothing speeding him up. He was going to take his time. He was just easy.

Starting point is 00:35:08 He was such a good dude. I loved Easy. Cedric Sabalas, quote, this one hurt to the bone, grew up. his kids together. He said on Instagram. And like I said, Laker fans, like longtime Laker fans, remember Eldon, he could at times be a frustrating player for a lot of Laker fans. But again, I think with time, a lot of these eras just gain more affection. And I think especially with him being an L.A. guy, it's sad news for Laker fans. Locked on Lakers on YouTube is where you can go hang out with over

Starting point is 00:35:40 37,000 subscribers to the channel. We will be back after the game. on Thursday everyone will see you then

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Is LeBron James "Stat Padding?" What Does His Role Look Like at (Almost) 41-Years Old?

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