Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Joey and Jesse Buss Fired as Lakers Shake Up Basketball Operations

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, everyone, welcome to Locked on Lakers for Friday. Brian Komenetsky, Andy Komenesky, a major shakeup in the Lakers basketball operations. Jesse Bus, Joey Bus, fired. We'll explain what it means next. You are Locked on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for making Locked on Lakers.

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Starting point is 00:01:02 And it's going to be always free. It was shaping up to be a sleepy Thursday in El Segundo. You were at practice. You know, what are we talking about? Not much. Guys are trying to get used to LeBron being there. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden, bombs dropping major news.

Starting point is 00:01:24 The entire scouting department basically fired Joey Bus, Jesse Bus, and a bunch of scouts all gone. They were fired by the organization Thursday afternoon, at least from a timing standpoint, very surprising to pretty much everyone. I was going to say at practice today, none of the reporters, like the ones that I consider the most plugged in, seemed to have had any inkling this was coming. now it's been very clear they saw this as both a possibility and then an inevitability but nobody seemed to have seen this coming

Starting point is 00:02:08 at all and so just from a logistical standpoint it means for people don't know Jesse Bus was essentially in charge of the Lakers' scouting infrastructure there's no essentially he was in charge of it I was not using

Starting point is 00:02:24 his title is basically what I'm saying and you know that includes don't domestic and international scouting and things like that. Joey Bus ran the South Bay Lakers. And so you have an influence, obviously, on who's on that roster, which can feed the big club. It influences the two-way contracts that are being signed and stuff like that. So, you know, these are important people inside the basketball operation.

Starting point is 00:02:51 They are generally considered to have been doing a pretty good job, the very least, you know, it can always be a little bit tricky to say who is ultimately making decisions and this and that, whatever, although we will get to that again based on Jesse Bus's comments after he was let go. Jesse Bus was wasted zero time in making his feelings understood and, you know, a few shots fired across the bow of Rob Polenka and his sister. Jeannie Bus. But generally speaking, you know, those areas that those guys were responsible for were seen to have been positive spots inside the organization over the last decade, kind of regardless with what was going on with Rob Polinka and his, you know, and his work with the main roster.

Starting point is 00:03:51 They were well respected around the league. You and I have always thought well of them. I know I've had over the years handful of conversations with Joey, more so than Jesse, but I've always thought he's a really sharp guy. And I think if you look at their overall track record, and also we'll start getting into some of the areas from Jesse's comments that reflect nothing else in Jesse's mind, achievements that he and Joey have had that aren't commonly linked back to them, but they think should be.

Starting point is 00:04:28 And if nothing else, a lot of the credit that maybe has gone only towards, say, Rob Polinka was not deserved. Well, I mean, look at the track record for draft picks, the track record for undrafted free agents, you know, that those are things that those guys are, you know, the players that those guys are scouting. And, you know, Alex Caruso, Austin Reeves,

Starting point is 00:04:52 those are undrafted free agents. If you look at their draft track record, most of the people that they've drafted are in the league and have had pretty decent careers, you know, certainly relative to their draft position. This is a fascinating story for me because I think you can break it into two different sections. There is the question of like the work, was the work good? There's sort of how you organize a basketball operations department, all these other things. And then the other half of this conversation is the post-sale organizational structure of the Lakers, some palace intrigue, some things like that that are really unique, I think, to the context of the Lakers. and the fact that Joey and Jesse Bus were, and oh, by the way, still are part owners of the team.

Starting point is 00:05:59 They were the two no votes for the sale. Interesting, though. It is presumed. It is presumed. And for what it is worth, Ramona Shelburne was on Mason and Ireland, A on 710 ESPN, and paraphrasing a bit of what she said. but she has heard conflicting information about whether or not they were no votes. She has heard something to the effect of there were four, before Joey and Jesse even had their votes in, there were four yeses.

Starting point is 00:06:34 So at that point, regardless of how they felt about it, it wouldn't have mattered because you already had the majority, so the sale was final. And she's also heard that they were no votes. I was just going to say it makes sense that they would be because they had the most of lose. They had the guys are not enough. Like they would have, you know, be ultimately the two who inherit the team in the long run. So it makes sense in that. Well, they had the most to lose in the sense that they would be the ones that would inherit the team.

Starting point is 00:07:05 Like the way the structure, my understanding, like the structure of will, trust, team, all of that was it was essentially, you know, it, it would. essentially be passed through to the last living kids and them being the youngest that would stand to be them. But also, too, they were, Jeannie, obviously has been the governor and is currently seen as the one overseeing the whole operation during this transition with Mark Walter. But Joey and Jesse both had jobs within the organization. And with this sale, they could stand to, and it turned out to be the case, to lose their jobs. And as Jesse said in an interview with The Athletic, Dr. Bus, in addition to his vision of, you know, Geney and Jim Bus, running the thing together, Jeannie on the business side, but with the ultimate, say, Jim running basketball ops, that eventually Jim would retire. And Jesse and Joey would have essentially taken over that.

Starting point is 00:08:13 So I don't know and I don't know how much that ever aligned with Genie's vision, clearly not a lot. But from their perspective, if they either voted no or were very hesitant with getting on board or eventually realized they had no choice, they were the ones that really had the most at stake. Well, for sure. And we'll talk a little bit more about this after the break. But, you know, this is ultimately the sort of finding. dismantling of I mean I guess you know the sale to Mark Walter really was but like in in

Starting point is 00:08:49 terms of the names inside the organization this really is I think they're the the last bit of second to last bit depending on when you think Jeannie is going to be done but the you know the sort of second to last bit of housekeeping bus keeping and the the bus area yes bus keeping because like you said, those guys were, the architecture was that they would eventually take over the basketball side of things. And so obviously that is not going to happen. And it became much easier to move them out of the organization once the sale to Mark Walter went through. Plenty to talk about here in just a moment, both from, again, a peek into how the organization has been operating. but also what it means for how the Lakers might be reconstructing basketball operations going forward,

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Starting point is 00:12:02 Visit DoorDash in your bag.com for full details. DoorDash in your bag all season long. Both of these things are interesting to me, but let's do the sort of the mechanics of what's now, what's coming. And then let's get into Jesse Bus's comments about what has been because I think actually, you know, that'll take a little longer. But what's coming, in my opinion, they're obviously going to hire more scouts. They're going to reconstruct the, that department.

Starting point is 00:12:36 and those people that are brought in are seem likely to me to be reporting to Rob Polinka. And Rob, in my view, is able to sort of consolidate power, which is essentially what they had been doing. If you believe Jesse Buss, you know, from his comments to Dan Waiky at the athletic, they had been sort of frozen out of the operation over the last couple years anyway. So basically you're taking that department, rolling it into, you know, sort of the oversight of Rob Polinka more directly, getting his guys into there. And, you know, ultimately he'll be responsible for that department, which, by the way, is probably how it needs to work. Whether they got there through a good process or things have been taking place over the last couple of years in a good way is a different question. But you know, you can't have distance, which what seems to be a problem between and a rivalry between, you know, different factions inside your basketball operation.

Starting point is 00:13:43 Yeah, I mean, in this conversation with the athletic, Jesse Bus was asked today, being the day you were fired, you didn't speak to Jeannie or GM Rob Polinkett. Did they give you an explanation today from Jesse Bus? No, I haven't spoken to either of them in five months. the athletic. Do you remember why? Jesse Bus? Yes, Jeannie informed me that there would be a vote on the sale of the team. And with Rob, he just informed me of who we would be drafting, which is pretty

Starting point is 00:14:09 consistent with how it's gone over the last couple years, which, in and of itself, we will get into that. How, I mean, look, how the setup of this will work in terms of a flow chart remains to be seen. I think your envisioning

Starting point is 00:14:25 of it may be correct. It may be structured differently. But, But you brought up the point about the warring factions. And the truth is that is something that can happen, whether it's a scouting department that is run by Jesse Bus, a scouting department that is run by whoever is brought in by Mark Walter, Jeannie Bus and perhaps Rob Polinka working in unison or whatever. These warring factions will take place if ultimately the people high highest in charge allow them to happen. And if you listen to, you know, the opinion of Jesse

Starting point is 00:15:05 bus, it very much sounds like part of the reason this has happened is not just because of Rob Polinko, who we've talked about for years, excels at managing up and consolidating power. It's also happened because Jeannie has allowed it. And Jeannie's entire time, frankly, with the organization, has involved a lot of infighting and factions one way or another, going back to when she and Jim Bus were constantly at odds. So obviously the people that get brought in, and you and I both think it's going to be a much larger, more robust, more manpower scouting department, which was needed even if Jesse Bus stayed on. It's been well known across the league that the Lakers were very sparse in this department.

Starting point is 00:15:53 but ultimately the backbiting and the infighting and things like that will stop happening when the people ultimately highest in charge say no more. Yeah, and this is something that Magic Johnson referenced, you know, when he was on his way out the door. And also one of the backfighters. No question. Like magic was hardly. And I don't want to make it.

Starting point is 00:16:20 I'm not inside enough to know, like to say, It is easy. It is fun. It is tempting because I think, you know, Lakers fans especially, you know, are inclined in this direction. You just say, oh, there it goes again. It's Rob again. It's Jeannie again.

Starting point is 00:16:39 And like, I don't, I'm sure there's a role that was played here by Jesse and by Joey. And, you know, Magic referred to it. Like these are, these are guys who wanted influence and a bigger role. role and this goes back to when magic was it was part of that front office and sure dynamic that he recognized but what you know the thing that it just while they were owners it just wasn't going to work in the same way the minute that leverage was sort of taken away or that status was taken away they got their pay out, but they were much closer to employees at that point than they are owners.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Then, you know, a move like this became more inevitable. The two of them started essentially with a venture capital firm too around sports that people saw as like kind of a precursor to them being either forced out of the organization or leaving themselves. A sign they knew it could be coming at the very least. But the part that I find most interesting about this, and you're right, we'll see what happens from an org structure standpoint, but I assume for the time being, Rob Polink, I don't think is going anywhere. And they'll build this larger scouting department. Even if you think like, you know, sort of look to the Dodgers as the template, the Dodgers kept Ned Colletti for a couple of years before moving on to their, you know, Andrew Friedman and 700.

Starting point is 00:18:21 GMs that they brought in to work under him. It is telling to me, though, and ultimately, regardless of who you side with, a sign that a change needed to be made, that even Thursday, when they were fired, they didn't talk to Jeannie, and they didn't talk to Rob. was the CFO, as it was reported, that actually let both of these guys go. It's also... If your sister and the head of basketball operations aren't even going to speak to you in person to do this, then the relationship is such that a change needs to be made.

Starting point is 00:19:08 Well, it's also really striking that Joey and Jesse Bus told ESPN in a statement. We are extremely honored to have been part of this organization for the last 20 seasons. Thank you to Lakers Nation for Laker Nation for embracing our family every step of the way. We wish things could be different with the way our time ended with the team. At times like this, we wish we could ask our dad what he would thought, what he would think about it all. I'll get into that later. But it's also very striking that I can't read the statement from the Lakers because it doesn't exist. And these are two guys who forget the fact that they are.

Starting point is 00:19:50 related to Jeannie, like their Jeannie's brothers. They've been with the organization for like a couple decades. Like the fact that there is no statement from the organization. Could this have been organized so they, you know, guys, why don't we figure out a way for you to, you have this new business? Why don't we leave as opposed to us firing you or whatever? I just mean, I just mean it speaks to what you were talking. about the impasses in these relationships and the dysfunctionality that you're not having a statement for too long time employees who also happen to be your brothers and part owners of the team. It speaks to something else you and I have always talked about for years that there needs to be more people in high places in this organization that Jeannie does not have a personal relationship with.

Starting point is 00:20:48 It's been too insulated. Everybody has been too close. And they need some degree of neutrality in that building desperately. I don't know. I think people should be careful not to read too much into this as a Mark Walter is, you know, more reporting will come out and all these other things. But the one thing I'm fairly comfortable in saying is this. I believe that one thing that Mark Walter probably

Starting point is 00:21:18 wants in this organization is fewer buses. Like it's just for the reasons you're kind of talking about there, these changes needed to be made. And I think right now, he's ultimately like, I'm going to over time bring in all of my own people anyway. I'm doing the due diligence and all that. It sort of doesn't matter the order in which people depart. We just need to start making organizations.

Starting point is 00:21:48 and structural changes. And I think this is part of that. And so, you know, they're down to one. And we'll see exactly how much day-to-day power genie influences over in a way that would be different than another person who runs the business side of the operation. We'll see that over time. But next, Andy, more pointed comments from Jesse Bus. Locked on Lakers is brought to you by prize picks. Every day we make decisions.

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Starting point is 00:23:02 rushing for a touchdown, and you're in the game. And I love how quick it is. You can make your lineup in under a minute. They've got a new feature called stack. So if you want to ride with a player, you can select their passing yards, rushing yards, touchdowns, all the different stats, all in one lineup. Download the prize picks app today. Use the code. Locked on NBA for 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code locked on NBA for 50 bucks in lineups after your first $5 lineup hits. Price picks, it is good to be right. It's interesting to me, Andy, as we noted earlier in the show, the track record for drafting

Starting point is 00:23:44 overall, pretty strong. The Lakers have found a couple really good undrafted free agents and Alex Caruso. and Austin Reeves. You know, so again, track record, pretty good. Where it seems to drop off is the Jalen Hood-Chafino draft. It was very interesting to me that when Jesse Bus was talking about when this distance began to develop between him and Joey and the organization, the rest of the organization, I should say, he said, oh, before the 2023 draft.

Starting point is 00:24:23 Subtext there, that wasn't our call. That was wrong. And again, we're talking about a guy just got fired. Again, more reporting will reveal, you know, who did what and this and that influence there. But Jesse understands where the criticism is coming from. Oh, you guys blew the last two drafts. Oh, no, we didn't. We being the Royal.

Starting point is 00:24:46 Me and my department, we didn't draft Jalen Hood-Shafino. Rob Polinka drafted Jalen Hood-Shafino. That is very clear from what Jesse was saying. Or Maxwell Lewis or Dalton Connect. If you're not happy with Brony James having a roster spot, that was a call made way above our heads. I'm just talking about the entirety of the last two years, which I think has seen by most people as the weakest part of their tenure.

Starting point is 00:25:17 They're also saying this is the part, or Jesse saying, this is the part where we have been the least involved. Judge for yourself. Yep. I think that is part of it. And I think it was interesting. They stuck up for the guys that they found, whether you're talking about somebody like Caruso or Austin Reeves

Starting point is 00:25:42 or even somebody like Rui Hachamura, who they traded for and developed, really kind of turned him into. something that was more fully realized than what he wasn't watched. And that is something that really jumped out at me from this athletic report, two different paragraphs. The Lakers are off to an 11-4 start the season tied for third place in the Western Conference. Their best starts since the 2021 season.

Starting point is 00:26:04 Some of the players whom the Buss brothers helped land, chief among them, Austin Reeves and Ruey Hachamura, have played pivotal parts in the strong start. The article later says from Jesse Bus, quote, I don't think it's bittersweet because first and foremost, I'm a Lakers fan, even if not part of the organization in any capacity. I'm always going to root for this team. And obviously I root for, you know, players that Joey and I had a part in bringing in the team, you know, such as Austin and Rui.

Starting point is 00:26:28 Austin, the one, is the one that everyone will automatically connect to the scouting report and the scouting department because that's their job to go find players, whether you're talking about first round draft picks, second round draft picks, undrafted, whatever. This is what they do. But they are also a part of scouting around the, league for trade possibilities, figuring out how player X could fit into what you do.

Starting point is 00:26:56 Our everydayers will know, I've talked a lot about how Rui can be seen as a developmental win for this organization, because if you remember his reputation from the Wizards, he was seen as an underachiever and a guy that really just wanted to score and that was really it. He didn't play with fire, didn't play with passion, unfocused, all of that stuff. his stock was pretty low when the Lakers traded for him. But where this gets connected back to Jesse and Joey, at least in theory, is those guys help identify the players that Rob would look to trade for in the first place, maybe some guys who the stock maybe two down on. And I think what Jesse is saying in so many words is if you think that Rob Polinka landed on Rui Havillenka landed on Rui Havis. Hachamora as a target just by himself, think harder.

Starting point is 00:27:54 Yeah. I think that is very much what he's saying. 100%. And, you know, just for it to kind of let people, you know, people may not know, like, if you go to an NBA game, you sit in the media section, you might be sitting next to a bunch of lead scouts. And sometimes they're there to literally scout the opposition. It's so awesome.

Starting point is 00:28:12 It's really cool. You know, especially if they're willing to talk to you just about basketball, you can learn a ton. But you get there and you're talking to these, you know, and they're there to both scout the other team. So provide an advance report, these are the teams that are coming to play us in the next couple of weeks, whatever might be. But they're also, like you said, they're there to potentially identify players that, you know, you might want to consider, you know, looking at. Let's pull up some film and see if this guy would be a good fit. The other part of this, though, that is striking is, you know, Jesse, when he was talking about kind of bitterness, what's next, all of these other things, he talked, you know, this was in the context of being asked by Dan Wojki about kind of the family business aspect of it, which is, like we say, pretty much gone now because even, Jeannie while she is still the most prominent member of the bus family is not in control of what's

Starting point is 00:29:27 going on. She has a big voice. She does things on a day-to-day basis, but there is, you know, regardless of what you think the, there is ultimately somebody above her who owns the team and makes decisions. So she's an employee at this point with employee with a lot of stake, but an employee with a lot of stake, but an employee. Continue. I've got thoughts on this, but continue. The question from Dan to to Jesse about, you know, the team, you know, not being a family business anymore. He said this. I hope going forward that Mark, meaning Mark Walter, can kind of bring a lot of what he brought to the Dodgers, because I think if the vision, I think if the vision more or less is the same from what I've seen over the last 10 years, then it necessarily,

Starting point is 00:30:18 isn't always going to lead to the success that Lakers fans have become accustomed to when my dad ran the operations and owned the team. Believe the technical term for that, Andy, is shots fired. I mean, that's pretty, that is pretty stark. And again, you're talking about a guy who just got fired. Sure. So disgruntled employee caveats. Astruntled sibling. Sure. That is a major shot at Rob and Gene. I was going to say, it's a shot at both of them.

Starting point is 00:30:57 It is a shot at Rob and it's a shot at Jeannie. But it is also, if we are being honest, very much in line with what I think the average Laker fan thinks of the time with Jeannie as the ultimate shot caller, whether you're talking about pre-Rob Polinka or. or in the Rob Polinka era, that they have been largely underwhelmed and unimpressed by Jeannie as the one ultimately in charge of everything. They are saying, if nothing else, what a lot of Laker fans are feeling. And I think a lot of people who cover the team, cover the league, have also felt. But I also think it's just it's very clear that Jesse thinks, at best,

Starting point is 00:31:42 Jeannie did not put up enough of a fight to try to keep them. At worst, this is actually what Jeannie wanted. Like, Jeannie actually wanted them out. And either way, it's not sitting well with them. And as he says, I wonder what my dad would have thought about all this, given that he had this vision. However, I think it's become very clear, totally unrealistic of all the kids in harmony while having unequal say and unequal stature within this organization, somehow remaining harmoniously involved with each other. But I wonder how my dad would feel about the fact that Jeannie has now fired all of her brothers. And in the case of me and Joey, the two brothers that were largely seen not just as good at their jobs, but I think if you asked the average Laker fan over the course of

Starting point is 00:32:42 our time versus Jeannie's time, who's actually been better at their jobs? I think the average Laker fan would say Jesse and Joey. Yeah, it's just, there's a lot. Anyway, the more, this is a story that, you know, I hesitate to, my goal in this episode was not to sort of waffle on stuff, but I just feel like there's so many things that you can guess at, but that will ultimately be answered, I think, in more detail over the next couple of weeks.

Starting point is 00:33:14 Anyway, Locked on Lakers on YouTube is where you can go hang out with over 37,000, highly intrigued fans at this point. Lakers do play on Sunday. We'll bring you that more unpacking of what happened on Thursday and what it might mean going forward as the weeks go on. But next week, the Lakers start playing like a real schedule again with an opportunity to win some ball games. So we'll have plenty to talk about everybody,

Starting point is 00:33:40 enjoy your weekend. We'll see you Monday.

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Joey and Jesse Buss Fired as Lakers Shake Up Basketball Operations

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