Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Luka Dončić Heads to Spain for Hamstring Treatment. Is it Smart to Rush Back?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Luca Donchich has gone to Spain for secret hamstring treatment, but is it a good idea for him to try to rush back? That is next. You are Locked on Lakers, your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for joining us on Locked on Lakers.

Starting point is 00:00:28 I'm Brian Komenetsky. No Andy Kaminetsky for one more day. He is still in morning after the events of last week. but kind enough to join us for today's programming, Harrison Fagan, the great Harrison Fagan from SB Nation, also a noted hamstring specialist. So we're very excited to have Dr. Fagan joining us for today. Is this been one of those times where you suddenly find yourself doing a lot more Googling about body parts than you typically might? No judgment. I did have to look into, I did have to remind myself of where the oblique was

Starting point is 00:01:05 when the Austin Reeves injury came out because we can't, we can't ever just say ribs or abs or, you know, whatever. It's always got to be like, you know, it was the fourth quadrant of his upper right triangle oblique, you know, and was it the warriors who started like kind of pioneered that? Like we're like, okay, fine, we'll give you disclosure, but we're going to do it in ways that are so incomprehensible. that you won't understand what we're saying.

Starting point is 00:01:31 But at least we're telling you about the injury. It's sort of the basketball version of the thing that hockey does where they're just like, it's a lower body injury. It's like, well, what does that mean? What's the lower body? What is considered the lower body? You know, like it's, yeah. Like where do all teams draw the lower body line at the same place, you know?

Starting point is 00:01:48 And it's like, you know, it's always an adventure in the NBA, but I think especially with the Lakers where it's like, you know, mark as smart as day to day for two weeks. And, you know, Luca is in Spain, which is where I've been with the S being silent since all this news came. Do want to let people know that today's episode is brought to you by GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code locked on for $20 off your first purchase. So the news on this is interesting. Obviously, Luca getting hurt and there's been tremendous controversy, which there will still be, about the idea of whether or not the Lakers and JJ Reddick royally screwed up by even allowing him to play in the second half of this game.

Starting point is 00:02:43 JJ, I sort of continued to defend the decision saying like there was nothing unusual about what Luca was doing and all their metrics about how much. much you was jumping and running and leaping and all these other things. Nothing was unusual. He had grabbed at that hamstring, but he had also, he, he, he, Luca's been grabbing body parts for like two and a half months. So yeah, that part of it wasn't necessarily new. Before we jump into, you know, Luca in Spain and what that says about maybe the training staff or, and then larger issues about, um, the wisdom of even trying to get back

Starting point is 00:03:21 this season with that kind of injury. where are you on the the blame question is there someone to blame for this or is it just really bleepy bad luck i i think it's more the latter i mean as much as like i i will preface this by saying i think j jay is actually like a pretty good coach uh he his personality annoys me though and like so normally i would be uh normally i would be predisposed to just be like this is your fault podcast boy like you don't know like i work with anthony all the time so you're used to having, you know, people who are personalities who are kind of annoying. That's what I mean. Like, I'm used to a condescending podcaster. And so I think that's why

Starting point is 00:04:01 JJ, with too much gel in his hair. So I think that's why, like, JJ probably rubs me the wrong way a little bit. And, and it, but I will say, I don't really see any way to reasonably blame this on him unless your, unless your argument is just like, the Lakers should have totally thrown in the towel in the second half of OKC. Like, I don't know what he's supposed to do there. Like, even in blowout games like starters play some token amount of minutes to see if they can make a run and see if they can get it close and whatever and again like this obviously worked out about as badly as it possibly could have but i have a hard time blaming j j j and the medical staff really for this one i the austin reeves one that i i really like again i don't really blame j j j for that i'm like i just

Starting point is 00:04:42 have questions about like the medical staff and all like why was he allowed to go back in and play if you've already done an MRI on this spot and it's like i can see on tv that he's grabbing it every single time he moves. Like, why is he still out there in a three-point? Did they do the, they didn't do the MRI. They hadn't MRIed that yet, right?

Starting point is 00:04:59 No, they had because they did it in Dallas. Right, but that was after the injury. Oh, you're right. Yeah, yeah,

Starting point is 00:05:04 yeah. He hurt himself. Although, in Dallas, this is my favorite, like, they can't even catch a break. Like,

Starting point is 00:05:10 Dallas MRIed the wrong spot. Yeah. And they had to go back and do it again. Like, I love that JDA made sure to point that out, too. He's like, yeah, the Mavs doctor suck too.

Starting point is 00:05:19 He's like, Give a thumbs up to the training staff off screen. I, um, thanks. My theory with that one is like, they knew what happened to them. And they were like, look, it is what it is. It's probably not going to get worse. You can handle the pain. You can go play because tomorrow you're not going to be able to move.

Starting point is 00:05:37 So we'll see. I mean, that is, again, just my theory. But when the news broke that Luca was already off to Europe to try. and hasten the healing here. It was, you know, conveniently four minutes after stopped recording for Monday's show. So I love it. That's rough. I hate when that happens.

Starting point is 00:06:03 I've had, I, there's been a couple of those I remember where, you know, we've gone back and re-recorded because it was big enough news. Like, this is definitely like you can save that and hit it the next day. But it is. Yeah, I thought about it or I thought about it. Yeah. I'm like, no, I'm, I'm, my, still going to be there. There's not a game today. I have two times the workload with Andy out of town.

Starting point is 00:06:22 It's already going to take me a year to. I'm not going back. But there was a lot. Some of the speculation was that Luca was upset with the medical staff. And like he consulted. Everybody got together and consulted. He's like, screw you guys. I'm going to Europe to find better doctors.

Starting point is 00:06:41 And, you know, I saw some of that chatter. But I mean, I think the reality is just more that you can do, you know, more freaky stuff in Europe than you can in in in America they are fewer restrictions and fewer regulations around things like injection therapies and stuff like that in in Europe than they do in the the US particularly around stem cells for any number of reasons that we don't need to get into here but like I mean I locked on things that I don't want to get in trouble for Lock on how this video got demonetized. It's already, look, I'm not doing anything to demonetize anything,

Starting point is 00:07:26 given what is, you know, happened to all of us for, you know, potential, you know, second round, maybe even an upset into the third round. Yeah, no. Nobody comes out ahead in this. So, yeah. I don't see anything suspicious or distrustful about needing to go to Europe. up a lot of guys have done it basically for this reason because you just have a little bit more flexibility in what you're allowed to do.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Yeah, that was my instant takeaway. I actually hadn't seen the take that it was like maybe he's fed up with the Lakers medical staff. I can sort of understand why Luca fans would be concerned about that or maybe hypersensitive to it given like that we've heard part of the reason that he's not in Dallas anymore is because he had clashes with the Mavs over who should who should and shouldn't be on the training staff and who shouldn't, shouldn't be giving him medical and conditioning advice and whatever. So I can see how a gut reflex would be like, oh, like he's just saying this Laker staff sucks

Starting point is 00:08:26 and he's going to go get his own people. But I think it's 100% more a lot. Maybe there is like a kernel of truth to that, but I think it's a lot more, 99% of it, my guess is that, you know, it's like they always say like Europe is the land of freedom. And you could do whatever medical stuff you want to your body there. Maybe you'll get like a cybernetic leg. They take a syringe and fill it with ABBA and they just inject it right in there. All the techno you can handle in the beats. I was reading up on like what this treatment that he's supposed that he's probably getting, they're saying, it would entail.

Starting point is 00:08:58 And it's like it's someone using an ultrasound to like target the specific damaged areas of the hamstring and like inject things into that. And I'm like, oh, man, that's like there's no way my insurance is covering that. We'll get to that. This at the very least is going to hit his out of pocket maximum for 2020. He's done for the, he's set for the year. He can get as many tests now as he wants. So I want to ask the larger question here about whether or not all of this even makes sense.

Starting point is 00:09:28 Because if this were a broken wrist or something, we might be talking about it. But hamstrings are unpleasant places to be. And so I want to talk about whether or not it even makes a lot of sense for Luca to try to come back if it means rushing. And we'll get to that next. Locked on Lakers is brought to you by Indeed, workplace chaos, deadline stacking up, inbox overflowing in the one position you have to fill is still sitting empty. And when the pressure is on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed, sponsored jobs helps you reach the people who actually fit with what you're looking for,

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Starting point is 00:12:17 I mean, like, is this stuff like super duper effective? I don't know. I mean, Kobe went over to Europe to get the injections and all that kind of stuff back when it was sort of an unusual thing. You know, we all remember when Dennis Schroeder sent LeBron to the LeBron James of Feet. And I hope this guy is a LeBron James of hamstrings. So like this is a pretty common thing to go do right now, as we just discussed in the first segment, because, you know, you just have more things at your disposal. Athletes are rich. Teams are rich. They want their players to play. The bigger question to me is, is this any of this a good idea?

Starting point is 00:12:58 You know, you have your franchise player coming back from an injury that is to say the least a tricky one to manage. We've seen what's happened to a guy like Peyton Watson, who is a young fellow compared even to Luca. Grade two hamstring strain came back for like a week, heard it again. He's back. Aaron Gordon's had recurrence trouble with this hamstring strain kind of derailed James Hardin's career, knocked him down from like super elite to just regular elite. Is it a good idea in your mind, Harrison, for Luca to even try to come back faster from something like this? I as someone who is not a doctor I would have I would defer to like the medical people on that and like that's fair because it makes you comfortable that he'd be trying to come back faster yeah I mean I I'm sort of okay with it because for me it's one of these things where you know he's under contract with the Lakers long term like they're obviously that both them and Luca have every interest to be have every reason to be invested in his long term health and so

Starting point is 00:14:06 So I think this is one of these things where, you know, if if they're worried about it, like, I don't think that he's going to play. I think this is an effort to play. And I think that like if they feel like he can go out there and give it a go and isn't going to be limited and isn't going to be like too much or obviously you're never at no risk of re-injuring it. But if he's not going to be at too much risk of re-injuring it or, you know, if the re-injury would most likely just be another strain that then sort of knocks him out for offseason

Starting point is 00:14:31 chunks. Like I can see why a competitor like Luca would want to give it a shot and sort of. leave no stone unturned and just be like, hey, like, I feel like even if I'm at, you know, whatever percentage that I can still give this team an advantage and the West is, you know, it's not wide open this year, but I feel good about our shots against anybody. The way that we were playing, I think Austin will be back by then. Like, I think that, you know, me and this team, I want to give us a real shot. And that's sort of admirable in a way.

Starting point is 00:15:00 But yeah, I'm not, I'm not that worried about it because I just don't see any way that they, How many times have we heard about like stars and teams getting broken up because the star no longer trust the medical staff? I just have a hard time believing that like for this season and this team that like the Lakers clearly didn't even really believe in. They didn't invest in it at the deadline all that much other than the Luke Conard deal like that they would be like, hey, Luca, we really need you out there. Like these gate receipts are like new point. New starting point guard, Luke Conard. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:15:29 Look, Luke Conard triple double every game he starts at point guard. He's 16 rebounds. Yeah. Luke Barkley, they're calling it. That's insane. He said, you need me to fill in for Luca? Say less. I mean, I knew he was a good rebounder for his position and his size, but like, damn.

Starting point is 00:15:48 Here's the thing that I think is that spooks everyone, though, is, you know, it's not just that hamstrings. It's also, you look around the league and, you know, we might have a chance to talk about this, but, like, you know, Anthony Edwards now looks much more like a question mark. not just for the end of the regular season, but it would be an injury that might linger into the playoffs. Another thing that, by the way, broke about two hours after we finished recording the Monday afternoon segment,

Starting point is 00:16:18 which was all about why Houston is a better matchup. So the basketball gods are really screwing with my program here in ways that I don't appreciate. But everybody's hurt. Like, everybody has been hurt. Nobody has been able to stay healthy. Jake LaRavie is. to be third team all NBA, just because he's one of the, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:38 11 players in the league who's eligible for the award. But I also think the Halliburton example from last year, where, you know, he comes back and he's playing on a sore calf and all this other stuff and he ends up snapping his Achilles, he's out for the year. The threat of a long-term injury for Luca, and I don't know, you're right. I don't know if those two things are like super related. If he came back faster, would it be a 5%?

Starting point is 00:17:05 chance, a 2% chance, a 8% chance, you know, about like a full tear or something like that, necessitate surgery, whatever it might be. I think that prospect of doing something that would not just undermine the dim hopes that you have for this year, but really mess with next year. And given that, you know, I don't, I think they could have maybe upset St. Antonio in a second round if they could hold on to that three seed just because San Antonio is still a bit of a a playoff unknown. Two of the three games I played against Oklahoma City this year, they've gotten not just beaten, but destroyed, like absolutely annihilated. And I don't know if that trend was going to change in a Western Conference final or a second round matchup.

Starting point is 00:17:56 So I just, I think I am speaking for the fan who is extraordinarily nervous that they're going to do something that's going to hurt next season, not just this season. Yeah, honestly, you may have swayed me. Like, you made a good case that it just may not be worth it this year. And, like, what, really, what are you, if you do think about it, what are you bringing him back for? Do you have confidence that, like, him coming back along with Austin coming back, both of them fresh off injuries are going to be able to, like, recapture that magic that they had sort of

Starting point is 00:18:27 found in March that it's sort of dubious whether or not that was going to really translate to the playoffs anyway, given like the state of March basketball in the NBA, that they're like, number one priority is making it more competitive. And then we're like, Lakers went 15-1. Like, are they a contender? And yeah, like, I think they showed some stuff and I think they look good, but I sort of agree with you that I don't think that they were going to win a title this year, barring some real luck. And maybe that's just what you're setting yourself up for. Like, what if, you know, OKC and San Antonio both get hurt and you're cruising into the second round somehow? Like, Right. No, totally. And that's, I was going to say allow me to totally contradict the, the framing that I just had is, I mean, with Oklahoma City, it might take three or four twisted ankles, but stuff happens is the point. Like, weird things happen. Guys get hurt. Luka gets sick for game three. All kinds of things happen. And if you are there, and the Lakers were playing extremely well, if you are there, you have a chance to get through. So, I mean, I think, you know, I think in,

Starting point is 00:19:29 thinking through this. The other thing that I think plays towards being very conservative. Look, if enough people sign off on it, so be it. But after the break, I'll tell you why I think the Lakers, one more reason why the Lakers should probably default to a conservative direction rather than something more aggressive. So we'll do that. Next. Locked on Lakers brought to you by game time there's nothing like being in an NBA arena the crowd the energy the moment getting tickets though that part's not always so simple that's why game time has become the go-to app for scoring tickets fast without the hassle puts the advantage where it belongs with the fans um in our house we use game time for soccer tickets mostly with you know galaxy or lafc or angel city or uh if you're buying

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Starting point is 00:21:12 I don't think he's going to be able to do this fast enough. I mean, even if you can shave, you know, two weeks off of, you know, a six to eight week timeline, you know, that people talk about with this, four to six at the earliest. You're still talking like three weeks. And three weeks is probably game three, give or take, something like that, you know, maybe even game four. I don't know what the, you know, you're going to rush Luca back in a 3-1 series or something. I don't know. But the other thing is, if this was a team that you could expect to look the way it basically does next year, you know, Denver two years ago, San Antonio right now. San Antonio could lose in the second round basically the same teams coming back next year.

Starting point is 00:21:56 If the Lakers were building something with this roster, then I would say, okay, it might be worth just pushing through. and getting the run. That's likely not going to happen. Does that impact your thinking at all? Like the fact that this is not a team that is likely to come back in this form next year. Yeah, you know, I think that I don't know that it impacts my thinking all that much in this sense just because, you know, like, I mean, I don't know what the benefit is if they were bringing all the guys back of like rushing him back.

Starting point is 00:22:34 You know, I guess it's just to get like the experience in the continuity. You see what it looks like maybe in a playoff series, where the shortcomings might be. You know, just something like that. So you can build on it more directly for next year. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I just don't. I just don't think that I don't know that we need the playoffs to tell us what the flaws of this team are. You know, I'm just like, I think they've, you know, they've been fairly self-evident all year. Like they need, you know, they need a more reliable market smart. They need probably a starting center upgrade on D'Andre Aidan. They need some more wings, you know, to pair around Austin and Luca and all that's going to cost a lot of money, which is why, which is why this is probably not going to be the team that is coming back next year because it's going to require the Lakers to eat into all that cap space and try to, you know, like make the best moves that they can for, you know, big name guys and then also like fill in the margins. and like I just don't see a lot of these guys being back under those circumstances. Like, you know, Rui's not weighing around for the Lakers to finish using their books to like take the, you know, take the minimum or the, you know, whatever, the biannual, whatever it is to come back. He's going to go somewhere else. It's like sort of one of my theories of the NBA that serve me well, like when trying to predict free agency is like most of the time guys are not going to come back for a discount.

Starting point is 00:23:57 Like they will go somewhere else and try to prove you wrong for a discount if the market is. is dictating that they need to take less money, but they're not going to come back and make less money. And so I do think that this team will look different next year. And so I agree with that part. I'm just not sure that we need like a playoff run to sort of know where the weak points in this team are. Like we know what Austin and Luca need around them. And so at that point, it's like how much, you know,

Starting point is 00:24:24 Luca is not going to convince me that he's all of a sudden a three and D player because he comes back and like looks pretty good. No, it's not. That's what you're suggesting. It's not that. But it's like the, if nothing else, I mean,

Starting point is 00:24:36 like the combo of AR and, and Luca in a playoff setting, you know, whether or not it makes sense to, if you can find the right number, to bring LeBron back. And, you know,

Starting point is 00:24:49 this prospect that has gone from like, oh, absolutely not, from both sides to, well, this might actually be the best option that anybody has from both sides. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:58 You know, I, because I am, this is a, you know, a topic that we'll all have plenty of time to get into. But like what you just laid out in terms of finding these wings and doing all this stuff is like it is an enormous undertaking. It is going to be very expensive. I, how much do you think? Like if I say, you know, Reeves is going to get close to 40 mil at this point. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, I would be sorry. I think it would have to be like he was off.

Starting point is 00:25:28 full in the playoffs for that to not happen. In which case, that's not really a good problem for you to have. It's like, hey, should we overpay this guy that we're really not sure about in the playoffs, you know, or is some other team going to come in and like sort of take him for nothing? I don't think you get better by losing Austin Reeves for nothing. No, you can't let it. You can't be nothing.

Starting point is 00:25:44 Like in, you know, I think, you know, the Lakers wanted this, this second sample of him in the playoffs. I think they really went in Austin, I think really would have loved the opportunity to be like, just, you know what, let's put this to bed. I can play in the playoffs. it's not a problem. And now everybody is going to be a little bit concerned, not just about the performance,

Starting point is 00:26:04 but also about the injury risk, just because he's closer to 30 than he is, you know, 20. And his playing style is one that is sort of predicated on taking a lot of physical abuse. But like the other guy, you mentioned Rui. How much money is Rui getting in the new, like the cap, all that's going on? up teams have some cap space and all that kind of stuff. But on the flip side is like we live in a very

Starting point is 00:26:33 different universe about how teams are going to spend money. What is Rui Hachamura worth on the new open market? I have no idea. I think that's, I think that's sort of the Lakers bet with not being that worried about having all these guys that are free agents is that, you know, like you aren't going to be able to hold us over the barrel to get 20 million because there's no way anyone's offering you that on the open market. So like we can make a competitive offer using your bird rights. We can offer you more than like the mid-level if we want to. But we're going to let you go out there and see that these like lucrative, these giant numbers that you want from us are not out there.

Starting point is 00:27:07 Like should I don't, again, I don't know where Rui values himself or if he sees himself getting the same level of contract, you know, going into this free agency. Yeah, I'm terrible this game. Yeah, I mean like, that would be funny. He just, he's like, man, it's like, I just hope I'm in the league next year. Like just self-confidence. Oh, he's better than that. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:25 But like who is going to offer him that money? because you mentioned the teams with Cap Space and most of those, as you're aware, are, like, are bad teams? And so are they, like, are, are the Nets offering Rui, like, the contract that he wants to come and be like, I guess, like, I don't know, like, set backup Michael Porter Jr. for them, uh, you know, like around him. And so I just don't know where the money is at for a lot of these guys, which is why I think, you know, honestly, we may see some of the guys with like player options, like opting in.

Starting point is 00:27:56 Oh, I think Aiton is 100% guaranteed to opt in. I'm not, I think that would be surprised. It's like, who just opted in? It's like, was it DeMarre or, you know, like Zach Levine recently? It was like for $47 million. Zach Levine was like, I don't think I'm getting 47 million a year on the open market this summer. It's so funny to pick it up at the end of the season. You're not even, it's like, you know, I don't want to take any chances on like faxes not going through.

Starting point is 00:28:26 once we're not in a different area. You know, one of my favorite NBA stories is the one where, like, Westbrook got that extension offer and, like, didn't sign it right away. Like, do you know how, like, just rich you have to be and comfortable in life to have, like, $200 million extension or $250, whatever it was. I forget the number. But like, he waited, like, a couple days or something like that. I would like stop moving.

Starting point is 00:28:51 I would be sprinting to a FedEx if the internet was out at my house. You sprint, you could hurt your something. You fall down, you get hit by a car, anything bad. Bad things can happen when you sprint. You walk very slowly or you know, you have your lawyer faxed, you know, send it to you over the phone or whatever. I just, I can't imagine that. But the answer to that Rui question in a lot of ways, I think like you say, kind of plays to how the Lakers handle the offseason because they're going to go out and try to find these players out of a very limited pool. I don't think, for example, they can pay enough to pry Watson away from Denver.

Starting point is 00:29:29 Maybe Denver lets him go. I do not think they'll let him go to the Lakers. And so, you know, that, there's, you know, Ludo may be available. You know, maybe you can be like, I just don't know where you're going to find some of these players. But if the market for the players that they already have isn't that strong, they can kind of run it back. Nobody will like it, but they can sort of run it back with the same team they've got now, more or less, with a few small improvements and lean into that 15 and two run and say, you know what, we figured it out. This team's pretty good. And so rather than doing something stupid, we'll try this. I mean, I could see them doing that even while everybody wants to see something bigger. Yeah, I just have a hard time believing that they would do the run it back thing unironically again, you know. I don't think they'll do it on purpose. I just think they might have. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, to some degree, their hands may be tied because like I agree with you that Aiton is going to pick up that player option. No one's offering him. I mean, no, somebody would offer him the minimum. But like nobody's offering him more than he's made. Nobody's giving him three and 30.

Starting point is 00:30:41 Yeah, exactly. Nobody's giving him a multi-year deal. They're like, no, we already saw like, you're on the minimum. like basically one year deal and you weren't on your best behavior the whole year. Like where. DeAndre Aidan should be on an hourly, I think is what most be honest. DeAndre Aden, only NBA player who has to clock in and clock out of hours. It's, you know, $15,000 an hour or whatever it is. But he clocks in every day and that's what he got to do. DeAndre, you didn't fill out your time sheet.

Starting point is 00:31:05 Okay. No overtime. Yeah. We're not doing time and a half. Accounting is on me again. Can you get that sheet to them? He's a 1099. employee. Can I write that off? And so I didn't, you know, you're right. I mean, he's going to pay,

Starting point is 00:31:23 I think with smart, I think they'll come to, I come to some agreement where they give him, you know, three years and 22 million or 25 million, some number that everybody agrees with just because his, his value to this team is, is so significant. So, yeah, it's just, this time. This time of all this really was awful, even beyond the playoff implications for it. Harrison has been kind enough to agree to stick around for the afternoon segment as well in which I want to to break down the performance of JJ Redick at a time when JJ is maybe being held over the coals by Lakers fans given all the injury stuff that's happened in the large minutes that he played guys leading up to the injuries. Locked on Lakers on YouTube is ready to hang out with

Starting point is 00:32:15 over 38,000 subscribers to the channel. We'll see everyone later in the day.

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