Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Luka Dončić Vs. the Referees: Is His Complaining a Problem for the Lakers?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, everyone. Welcome to Locked-on Lakers for Wednesday. Brian Kaminetsky, Andy Kaminetsky, Luca Donch, which is frustration with officiating is growing. How much is too much? That's what we'll ask next. You are Locked-on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for making Locked on Lakers, your first listen of every day, Monday through Friday, no matter how worried, get your podcast. This one's always free. Never behind a paywall locked on Lakers on YouTube. So we can go hang out with over 33,000 subscribers to the channel,

Starting point is 00:00:44 all of whom Andy are wondering if the Lakers are going to turn things around against the bucks and the nuggets coming up in a couple of days. And, of course, Andy, we know the Lakers can be a little shorthanded during all these things. And they're going to need an engaged and productive lucidum. to get through this stretch without LeBron. And Andy, Luca's frustration with the officials, it seems to be growing.

Starting point is 00:01:15 Maybe he's just getting more comfortable in L.A. Maybe this is just the L.A. version of what we've seen in Dallas. He has that reputation. But you've certainly noticed a bump up in his interactions with the refs. He got a tech Monday night versus the Nets. I'm trying to find the exact count since becoming a Laker. It's actually less directly documented than I expected going through a few different.

Starting point is 00:01:44 It's at least three. It is at least three. I know he got one against the Nets, one against the Knicks, one against Dallas. There is maybe a fourth. I think he is up to nine so far this season, including the carryover from Dallas, as I tweeted out recently, if you're looking for a bright side to Luca having missed about six weeks or so with the calf strain. It's that it put him behind his typical pace for techs. Like usually this season, he is much, much closer to the 16 that is an automatic one-game

Starting point is 00:02:17 suspension. Anthony Edwards just served one of those. Luca is every season hovering around that 16 tech mark, if not blowing past it. And there is, he commented. He commented. minute after the game last night, he was asked about it. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it was a lot talking about the frustration that he felt dealing with the officials. It wasn't fair, but we just got to play the game. I got to keep playing the game. But it was a lot, man, not going to lie.

Starting point is 00:02:47 He later, when asked about this as like a follow-up, held his tongue more, but he did say something to the effect in his post game about you guys saw the game. Austin Reeves also expressed some frustration as well, noted that the Nets got to the line 12 more times than they did, although Austin got there 11 times himself. And I'd say, not that I think Austin was complaining on his own behalf, but Austin would be the last guy in the world to ever complain about not getting a favorable whistle. For a guy that has been... There's some pots and kettles going on here.

Starting point is 00:03:29 Well, I mean, Austin in particular, for a guy that has only been in the league, I think is now his fourth season and has never made an all-star team. Austin gets an exceptional amount of whistles. I'm not even saying they're all unurned, all grifted, whatever. I'm just saying, dude. But he is a, you know, I know this is a subject that gets people really frustrated. And over the weekend, there was a clip of SGA going around NBA Twitter where he jumps back sort of towards the basket. He's moving to his left.

Starting point is 00:04:02 And either, if you want to put it generously, kind of stops this thing and jumps straight up as opposed to continuing a drift or actively jumps right and forces contact with Russell Westbrook. It got everybody angry at all the foul grifting and whatever. And that applies to SGA. People have complained about that with Hardin, obviously, for years, staff to some degree.

Starting point is 00:04:25 And certainly in that group of players who, look around for contact, you can put Austin Reeves. You can put Luca Donchich. I mean, look, this is actually one of the things. We'll get back to the Luca specificness of this in a second. But this is one of the things that I think is if you're looking for a potential weakness in the Lakers in the postseason, it is that. They have so many players who are, you know, foundationally.

Starting point is 00:04:59 getting to the free throw line is a big part of what they do. And so if you end up in a situation where Luca isn't getting the calls, where Reeves isn't getting the calls, or LeBron isn't, you know, lesser degree just because he doesn't go as much anymore, that tends to pull people out of their offense. Even if you do get a call or get contact,

Starting point is 00:05:22 sometimes you might have to spend 16 or 17 seconds of the shot clock trying to make it happen. And it ultimately and eventually ruins your, your, kind of your rhythm on offense. That is actually something with the Lakers offense that I worry about. And a lot of it goes back to how Luca interacts with the refs and how he kind of moves past stuff. And that was specifically the thing that I wanted to get into with Luca.

Starting point is 00:05:49 Just the amount of complaining, the arguing, the demonstrativeness with referees, which we've seen a lot of during all the games since Luca's been a Laker. And frankly, throughout Luca's career, there was a sequence against the Nets where Luca was upset about contact, not called under the basket. He ended up, Brooklyn got the ball after the miss and took it up court quickly. And Luca ended up basically lying on his back, I think, to prove a point to the refs, while the Lakers were stuck playing four on five defensively,

Starting point is 00:06:26 and Brooklyn ended up getting a wide open corner three. And there's two pieces of this. There's the question of should Luca go to the line more often than he does? And I think the answer is yes in the same way that it could be that answer for a lot of superstar players because they're so effing good. You often have to file them in order to keep them from putting up 50 to 60 in night. And in the case of someone like Luca, who does do a fair amount of driving or, you know, shielding guys off with his body, like a certain degree of seeking contact, it's different than the way Austin does it. But he is somebody that looks to draw defenders close to him. He'll often try to, you know, draw those type of shooting files or, you know, even around the arc, stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:07:18 Like, it's a part of Lucas game. And if you are asking me if the refs could call more with Luca, my answer would be yes. In the same way, a lot of guys would have that complaint. But then there's the piece of how he handles it. And the degree to which he flat out berates the referees over the course of a game, I don't think is helpful for him personally because after a while you're just going to either piss them off where you get attack or they're just going to drown. they're just going to ignore you.

Starting point is 00:07:51 Like after a while, just it's going to be lucky. They ignore you. That's the best case scenario is when they, if they ignore you. Yeah. It's just going to become intentional white noise on their part. If for no other reason than to demonstrate, I'm not going to do this because you're demanding it. And I think there's also a trickle-down effect in the way some of your teammates

Starting point is 00:08:15 handle adversity when the superstars. are upset about a lack of calls. We talked before earlier in the season about the defense that the Lakers weren't playing early in the season that we thought in a lot of ways was culturally set by the defense. LeBron wasn't playing. And then we've seen the night and day difference once LeBron locked in. All those other dudes had no excuse but to follow suit. I don't think Luca is helping his own case.

Starting point is 00:08:46 I don't think Luca is helping the team's case. fairness is both a relevant question and totally beside the point. What matters is the effect on the team, the effect on Luca and what comes from it. I can get into it after the break. James Worthy and Robert Orie in the Spectrum Sportsnet post game show had some interesting thoughts about this as well. But just ultimately, I feel like this is nothing we didn't know about Luca or didn't expect with Luca, but you watch it. And at times, like, damn, dude. It's part of the experience.

Starting point is 00:09:24 I mean, I have, we'll see. I mean, I have, and I'm interested to see what the, how the comments section, both from the, um, Laker fans who are, are learning like we are the sort of day to day of the Luca experience, um, with the, the fans that are following him from, you know, Mavsites to hours and all that, how they'll react to, uh, this show and, and my thoughts on this, So we'll see. I mean, I'd like to get your reaction to. We'll get to all that next. Lockdown Lakers is brought to you by Wayfair.

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Starting point is 00:12:03 So before we jump back into the Luca foul reaction culture kind of thing, I do want to shout out. There was a really fun and interesting story that Dan Wojki at the Times wrote over the weekend about Markeith Morris, who is sort of the undiscussed person. in this whole trade scenario. You know, Max Christie and Anthony Davis, obviously, you know, headlining over there and Luca, Morris's initial reaction. People even wondering could Maxi Kleba be potentially available during a deep playoff run

Starting point is 00:12:42 or he's got a contract that could be tradable this off. Right. No, he's gotten a lot more attention than Markiev has. You know, to be fair, Markief's reaction reportedly when he was traded was, who want me? I think is exactly what he said. Who would want me? And so, but Dan's piece, his story did was a good reminder that like there is,

Starting point is 00:13:08 there was a purpose beyond just math, although math honestly had a lot to do with it. Or at the very least, an upside to having Marquif Morris back, which is LeBron loves him and values his opinion and his presence. I missed him. LeBron told the times of Morris. We've been in the Foxhole together, obviously referring to 2020 and the title run there. We've been on the floor during big games together, and there's someone whose opinion I value very much when I come off the floor. He's watching it. He's seeing it. I'm happy to have him back. It's great to see him. And it's just a reminder, Andy. The rosters are built around more than just the on-court talent. Is Marquif Morris going to play a lot for the Lakers? I hope not. But if he didn't play, he didn't play in Monday's

Starting point is 00:14:01 game when they're down to like nobody, including tall people. So, but like you, a roster space for somebody like that whose voice matters in a title run, who has the respect of your 40-year-old superstar and can be honest and tell them, like these types of players, matter. So it's just, it's a good read and good on Dan for for doing the reporting. Yeah, two quick things I would add to that. Just if you're looking for a direct comp from that 2020 championship run where Mark Keith Morris actually did play an important role, he was, say probably like the seventh man on that team, but he was often out there during closing minutes. He was the key to one of the keys to what I used to call playing medium

Starting point is 00:14:47 ball when they weren't as big as they could be, but they certainly weren't small. But if you're looking for a direct comp with Markeith Morris now to that 2020 season, I would look at Jared Dudley because Dudley barely played on that team, but we covered that team. We were in the locker room practices on a regular basis. Jared Dudley's voice mattered a lot in that locker room, even though he rarely played. Like similar to the way LeBron talked about Markief Morris, his opinion on things mattered. And I think Markief Morris is a lot like that. I think think for that matter, Luca values Markief Morris. The other thing I would say with Keith in terms of whether or not Jordan Goodwin and or Trey Jemison III will eventually have their

Starting point is 00:15:37 contracts converted, which would require if they wanted to be playoff eligible, which would require cutting players. And, you know, Cam Reddish's name comes up a lot. Alex Lenn's name comes up a lot. I've seen Shake Milton come up, but I've also seen Markeith Morris. Of the four people I named, I would say Mark Keefe, if he's not the least likely to be cut, it's only because Shake Milton's contract structure makes him valuable as an off-season trade piece because nothing's fully guaranteed. So if it weren't for that, I would say Keith would even be less likely to get cut than shake, even though shake is more likely to play than Morris. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:22 And he matters culturally. I think that's fair. I mean, the Lakers have two guys that they're probably going to add and they have two guys who will be very easily cut without being missed. But it's a great point. Like sometimes it's more important to have the voice. And honestly too, like, would the coaching staff, if they needed four minutes from a player, you know, they might want to lean into.

Starting point is 00:16:47 similar to like a Tristan Thompson or something like that for those short minutes where you know the guy's going to know exactly what to do and react in a way where that is predictable and all that stuff they might keep them around just for that reason too. I mean, they're not asking for 36 minutes a night from Mark Keith Morris. Not and ask for 36 minutes in total for Mark King Morris. Again, I hope not. But if you needed four minutes that, you know, seven minutes or spread out over two halves and you want somebody to go out and do a professional job. and understand the assignment, he's probably, you know, it wouldn't, I'll say this, it wouldn't shock me if there was a game in what hopefully is a long playoff run, where Markeith Morris steps on the floor and you're like, whoa, they got three and a half

Starting point is 00:17:33 good minutes out of Markeith. That was really cool. Here's an example that I remember from the 2001 finals, and then we'll get back to the Luca discussion, but just I, in terms of veterans who made a difference, and I've never forgotten this because it was honestly in its own right kind of jaw-dropping. Ron Harper was a part of that 2001 championship team, but he did not play nearly as much as did in 2000. And towards the end of it, he barely played it all. There was a game in the finals against the Sixers where the Lakers were just totally out of character, out of sorts. Things were just going weird. And Ron Harper, Phil Jackson, put him into the game for like seven minutes. He settled the whole thing down, scored like five points,

Starting point is 00:18:19 then exited the game. And I don't think he played again the rest of the series. But I remember just like when he put in Harper, I was like, Ron Harper. And then by the end I was like, oh, Ron Harper. Like, I mean, he just, he completely settled the entire game. It was like just Kirk Gibson moment. He comes in, does really well. And that was his only appearance in the series. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just I wanted to point that out because it's a, he is not a guy that we will hopefully spend much time talking about. If we do, things have probably gone wrong. But it was a cool little wrinkle about what's going on with the Lakers roster.

Starting point is 00:18:52 So we'll restart the Luka thing now. We'll carry it over into the break. I will tell you this. Like, I get it. Like this is a part of the Luka experience that we were all kind of anticipating and were promised. And we knew what it was. We've watched Luca play enough. We know he complains.

Starting point is 00:19:12 all the time. And, you know, we're used to it to some degree. Not like Kobe ever was above this sort of thing. He would ride a referee pretty hard and try to draw calls and all that sort of stuff. LeBron is no stranger to it. He is not. It's hard to find a star in the NBA who is just like totally chill with whatever the refs do or do not call.

Starting point is 00:19:38 It looks different in person. And it is, in fact, as a. a fan kind of annoying. Like I get why people are just like, Luca, come on, dude. Like, that said, this to me, I've kind of baked this in as one of these things that like, it would be awesome if Luca had a better mindset

Starting point is 00:20:04 about complaining about reps and things like that and drawing technicals and these blackout moment that, you know, that JJ talks about and all that kind of stuff. every player has something that you would be like, God, I wish they would do this a little bit better. I wish they would lead a little bit differently. It never totally makes sense to me that Kevin Durant spends so much time getting worked up by what random people on Twitter say.

Starting point is 00:20:30 But this is part of his process for Kevin Durant. And as much as I think would benefit Luca to shift this part of his mental game It seems to me that like this is just part of his process. And I don't know what it looks like. People always assume, well, if you took that away, it would instantly elevate a player's game. Whatever the flaw is that you're talking about, especially in their kind of non-skill approach, like stuff like this,

Starting point is 00:21:02 that if you just stop doing this, it would elevate your game so much. And I think that may be true in some cases, but I think sometimes when you start messing with, a player's kind of fundamental character, their approach, their instincts on the court, and how they vent, how they release emotion, there is a downside risk to that. You start taking things away. If Kobe were, you know, had a better feel for let's not shoot, maybe we can distribute the ball a little bit more.

Starting point is 00:21:33 Maybe we can be a little bit more egalitarian in how we do stuff or, you know, whatever it is. there was a risk that he wouldn't have been Kobe that was part of the package I think and so I mean after the break you know that is my feeling about Lucas like I wish it was different but I'm not going to worry about it because I just don't think it's something that he's that's going to change I think it's just something that needs to be baked in and worked around to some degree. So let's see what you say about that next. Locked on Lakers is brought to you by skims. I am somebody that's super picky about underwear. I only like famously. Yep. I only like boxer briefs. I want them to have a certain feel, a very specific tightness and looseness. It's like Goldilocks. They've got to be just right. And when I heard that we at Locked on could get some skims underwear, my first thought was, I had no idea they even make men's underwear. But then my second thought was, am I going to like them?

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Starting point is 00:23:28 Shop skimsmen at skims.com. So yeah, I mean, that's, Andy, that's the sort of my feeling about this. Like, I wish it was different. I wish it was better. There are certain things about it that would certainly benefit the Lakers because I 100% agree with you. that the team takes its cues from its most important players. And I think the comp you made with LeBron and the sort of come-to-Jesus moment that they had after that Miami game in terms of his effort defensively

Starting point is 00:24:01 has made a bigger difference than anything else they've done on that side of the ball. And it's certainly possible that if Luca knocked it off, other guys would respond and the Lakers would just be more locked in that way. I'm just not holding my first. breath for it to happen. I'm not holding my breath for it to happen. Like you said, it's baked in. Like none of this is a revelation to me or something that I did not expect to happen, but talking

Starting point is 00:24:29 about the particular effect of it. And it was something that in particular was interesting to me just because Ori and Worthy had their comments, which we'll get into in just a second. You know, the idea of how much Luca would or would not change if he eliminated this part. of himself or, you know, like the idea of does he lose his passion, you know, like that's the passion he plays with. It may be true. It may be complete BS. Don't know. Do you know, do you spend more time worrying about, you know, are you, are you somehow limiting yourself in how you may be? Maybe or maybe, not. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I've always thought that when people talk about this way with, you know, Draymond Green and like, you know, that's just the passion that he plays with and,

Starting point is 00:25:11 you know, the knife's edge that he needs to walk in order to say competitive. I'm like, BS. And Dremont Green just doesn't want to change. Like that's what this is. And he's been now Dremont, but I don't know. He's been enabled for a decade and some of this is how he markets himself and it's part of the Dremont brand. Right. And that's where I think the difference is though between Dremont and Luka.

Starting point is 00:25:29 No, of course. And I want to make it clear. I'm not saying that Luca is doing this for external reasons. I don't think that's even sort of it with Luca. My point being is it can be different on a case to case basis. and the idea that player X would lose that part of his edge if he did blank differently. I don't know if we, I don't think we can really make that assessment in either direction. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:25:54 Yeah, absolutely. As far as the comments that Orienworthy had, they were both pretty strongly of the opinion that Luca needs to, at the very least, do this differently, if not stop doing it at. all, Ory talking about the refs, quote, they're human, they can hold grudges, they can have a blind eye to certain situations. And for me, you know, the refs held the whistles a lot is definitely one of those things I used to harp on talking with, talking with Shaq and talking to Kobe. Just let it go. Let your play solve everything else. Because once you play hard and play the game the right way, things will work itself out. I felt like that got them out of rhythm talking about

Starting point is 00:26:37 the Lakers against Brooklyn when guys were going to the hole, when the reps were holding their whistles. That can make you miss your shot. That can make you do so many other different things. Ori also talked about how it's on the coaching staff to rein these guys in, too, to reset them, refocus them, encourage them just play. So they're like Phil used to find them, as he put it, just for the fun of it, $100 if they complain too much. But then probably have to bump that up in modern times. But still, James Worthy then too, and I think this is really what's important. There's a way to talk to the refs too. Usually if you can contain yourself, it's not initially. It's like two plays later when someone's at the

Starting point is 00:27:15 foul line, you walk over them and you say, hey, you know he got me. He filed me. You don't want to embarrass the referees. There's a way that you can talk to them. And it's not the way Luke is talking to them because they don't want to hear that right away. And they do make mistakes. They know that. And the thing I would add to, as high profile as Luke has always been, it's another level with the Lakers, and they're a team that already is attached to a narrative that they live at the line because the refs are in this league mandated tank for them. It's not true, but it doesn't matter. And I'm guessing that on a bunch of different levels, the refs are going to be more self-conscious in some ways about how Luca gets called. If for no other reason than to avoid

Starting point is 00:27:59 the appearance of getting bullied into whistles or falling for a grift with more people watching, now and more people paying attention. Like it Luke again, Luca's always gotten a lot of attention, but it is at another level now. And I these guys do not like being shown up and they know now when Luca is in their minds attempting to show them up, more people are seeing it and that can lead to them digging in their heels even more. And none of this by the way, or let me rephrase, a lot of this may be unfair to Luca. That may be true, but from a practical standpoint, it's beside the point. Fairness isn't the

Starting point is 00:28:44 issue. It's how do you go about making it better? I, yeah, look, I'm not, I'm not disagreeing with anything, any of that. I mean, it is all empirically true. Everything that, that worthy is saying, like, Luca could accomplish more of what he's trying to do with the referees by behaving differently. I don't think there's any question about any of that. And I look, I wonder, I'm hopeful, you know, he's just turned 26, right? Yeah. You know, he's got a lot of career left. And guys grow, they evolve. They become different players. I mean, realize he's not like brand new in the league, but he's not been around for 15 years. And he's certainly not been around again. I know this is what you're saying, but to go back to the Draymond example to where this becomes kind of part of his, like,

Starting point is 00:29:33 consciously part of the act. No, I don't think it is with Luca at all. I don't think it is at all. I think this is just emotional reaction to what's happening. I think it's very organic to Luca's personality. I've started 1,000 percent. I've started reading Wonder Boy, the book by Tim McMahon about Luca Donchich's rise to where he is now. Tim is actually going to be a guest with us next week on Lockdown Lakers.

Starting point is 00:29:57 He's also going to be a guest on my ESPN-L-7-10 Lakers talk show. the following week. So we're going to talk with Tim a lot. But in reading about Luca and, you know, his start in, you know, in Spain and in different parts of Europe, like, I think there's also some cultural differences in terms of what we might call demonstrativeness in the way sports in general are played in Europe versus America. Like, it is heightened theater and fashion. kinds of stuff behind it. Yeah. And I think it's 100% organic. I don't think this is an act. What's the point of the act? I mean, it's not professional wrestling. Over time, it would be great if he learns how to sort of modify this and do this in a different way, in a better way,

Starting point is 00:30:51 in the same way that the Lakers are banking on the fact that over time, he's going to get better about taking care of his body, like the influence of LeBron. It's going to help him with that. you know, LeBron barks at referees, too, but he doesn't get teed up. Not often. And he's, you know, very rarely, I think I'm trying to remember. I mean, it is not. Not often. He does not.

Starting point is 00:31:11 It does not. And so, you know, there's a way, like you say, there's a way to do these things. And it would unquestionably benefit him on the floor. I just, you know, I, like you said, I need the growth out of this space needs to be equally organic. It just needs to be like it can't be mandated. It can't be something that is sort of beaten into him or whatever because like I said in my opinion at least. I think you just got to let the guy

Starting point is 00:31:41 be who he is and accept that when he's right and I don't think he's right yet and the Lakers haven't seen a fully realized Luca yet and statistically he's already having an enormously positive effect on the lineup when he plays. He is you know his net rating and all that stuff is really good. And he still isn't playing at the level in terms of, especially in terms of efficiency, that he is to the

Starting point is 00:32:08 standard that he's set. I just, you know, it just needs to be an organic change that he is able to make overtime in the context of how he does everything else. And in the meantime, we have to sort of accept as a basketball watching public and Lakers fans or whatever that like 95% of what you get is awesome. The 5% kind of sucks. You wish it wasn't there. Oh, I mean, look, if you're asking me if I think the relationship with the referees and those interactions, if that's going to be worth the total package with Luca, I mean, yeah, it already has been.

Starting point is 00:32:43 Like that, that's not what I'm getting at. And people could say I'm being too easy on them, too. I don't know. Sure. But where I think also this really matters now is during this period where, at least for the next couple of weeks foreseeably, at minimum, You're going to be without LeBron and you're going to be without Rui. And it's going to be more difficult. And therefore, everybody needs to be incrementally that much more focused

Starting point is 00:33:10 than they already would try to be on the court. And you want to make sure that, you know, as Orien and Worthy both said in the post game, that the lack of calls weren't clearly taking you out of your game. Because they're not in a position. right now where they have the luxury of being taken out of the game a bit and still coming out on top. Not with the guys they're missing. That's fair. That's yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:38 That's a great point. And we'll see. I mean, they're getting to this place where the games are tighter, they're more meaningful, which means both the emotion gets higher and you need the, you want that edge, you need that and all that and it can kind of fuel the adrenaline through a game. And then also the consequences of those. moments are larger. You know, I mean, 11 and 40 Reeves and Luca were in Monday night's game, and the game

Starting point is 00:34:10 was within three. You can point to specific possessions like the one you did where Luca is on his back, and Brooklyn goes down and gets a clean corner three as, you know, a price that gets paid. Yes, moments that can turn a game. The Lakers, despite all of that inefficiency and all of the turnovers and all of the offensive rebounds, were still within position to win that game if you changed two or three possessions over the course of the game.

Starting point is 00:34:40 And that was one of them. So anyway, it's just a really fascinating to me, a fascinating sort of philosophical discussion about the nature of superstars and kind of what's good, could good be even better and all that kind of stuff. So we'll see how that goes going forward in the meantime. Lockdown Lakers on YouTube is where you can go hang out with over 33,000 subscribers to the channel. Do sign up for the newsletter. I forgot to pump that over the course of the show.

Starting point is 00:35:07 LockdownDaily.com, click on LockdownLakers and have the show delivered to you every day. We'll see everyone tomorrow.

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